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To Dad From Dad
What Matters More Than Success: A Father, Doctor, and Granddad Reflects TDFD Ep. 12
01:44:53
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- [00:00]
A
Mic check, 1, 2, 1, 2.
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B
Mike check, 1, 2, 1st, 2.
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A
Sounds good. I can hear you. Perfect.
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B
Okay.
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A
I can see you, too. Unfortunately.
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B
No, it's not good. I don't know if I'm looking at the camera looking at you, man.
- [00:14]
A
Hey, you just look wherever you want.
- [00:15]
B
I should have powdered my head or something.
- [00:17]
A
No, no. All right, well, hey, welcome to the to dad from dad Podcast, a show where we sit down with fathers and grandfathers and reflect on life. What worked, what didn't, what we would do more of, what we would do less of, and you know, what we would go back and tell ourselves if we had the opportunity to do that. Today, I'm. I'm joined by Brent. Brent, welcome.
- [00:45]
B
Thank you. Appreciate it.
- [00:48]
A
So try to always give a little context to our relationship. We've been talking a lot about this in the last couple episodes, but I'll try to keep this brief. Several years ago, we broke out of a Sunday school class that we were a part of and started a newer class for young families. And when we did that, you and your wife Gigi were recommended to come to our class and kind of be the mentors.
- [01:17]
B
I think what you're trying to say in a very nice, polite way is you needed some old people in the class to make the young people kind of stay in line.
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A
Yeah, Yeah.
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B
I think that's exactly what you're trying to say. But that's very nice the way you said it.
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A
Yeah. I mean, you're not wrong. Yeah, yeah. Gosh, though, I think, you know what's funny about you, though, is I've known you for, I don't know, six or seven, eight years now. I don't think you've aged a bit. You've been this old the whole time.
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B
Oh, you got to feel these joints, dude. You gotta feel these joints. I went to the orthopedic surgeon this week.
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A
Oh, gosh. Yeah. So, you know, as a result of that, you and Gigi showed up very faithfully and to support the class and kind of pour into that group. And then, you know, we kind of hit it off and just started to build a relationship. Ended up doing quite a bit of duck hunting together and just hanging out, doing some fly fishing trips together.
- [02:15]
B
And, yeah, I think that's probably where I was abused in the relationship, our relationship, because I would pay for the guide and he would tell us what to use on the river fishing, and you would benefit from me paying for the guide.
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A
Dude, you know what? I haven't thought about that, but this is the funniest thing we, we used to have a good friend here. He passed away a couple of years back, but his name was Jeff, Jeff Camp. He's actually the guy that taught me to fly fish. Incred. Incredibly passionate about the outdoors and just a. A very good human that taught me a lot. But Jeff organized a trip fly fishing on the Lower Mountain Fork river in Oklahoma every year. And we would drive up and there was a pretty core group of us that went for 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years, however long it was. And what's funny is when Brent got in the fold, the first thing that Brent would do when we got there is he would go to the fly shop and he would get with a guide and he would go spend like three hours on the river, a half day fishing trip. And we'd all be just, you know, sit back at the, at the cabin, you know, maybe drinking a cold beer, just shooting the breeze or, or probably being frustrated out of our minds on the river and. And then here we go. We were waiting for our scout to come back and Brent would come back and he would have all the. All right, we need to go to the fly shop and we need to buy some San Juan worms and we need to buy some salmon eggs, some woolly boogers. Woolly boogers. And here's the depth. And yeah, it was.
- [03:50]
B
It was. You know, those are some of the best times as men we've had, I think getting to know each other in the middle of a river or in a bunk at night while you're snoring, you know, like crazy, or, you know, even in the, the duck blind where you're sitting there, nothing's flying by, so you have to talk for two hours about life and what's going on with your family. So it' been great.
- [04:13]
A
Yeah, I have some of the most, you know, kind of reflective times. You know, I. This is going to sound weird, but I've seen some of the coolest things on some of those trips. Whether it's a sunrise, whether it's a duck that has a really strange bill or pattern, or a trout that has a very strange deformity or the beautiful cliff sides or the cold, crystal clear water. But I've also seen some really incredible human elements too. And I remember there's this guy, we were fishing, this is probably 10 or 15 years ago, we were fishing in Oklahoma and it was sleeting, it's below 30 degrees. And most of the guys were at the cabin, but there were a handful of us that were out there fishing and there was this old man, probably maybe 85 years old, and he's standing out in the middle of the river in a really good hole. And he was smoking a pipe, but it was raining. And this is the coolest thing. He had, like a. He had, like one of those old, like, the paper boy hats. Okay, I think I know the name for it, but I'm not going to say it, but he had one of those old English hats on. But here's what's funny. It was raining outside. He was smoking his pipe upside down.
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B
Oh. So it stay lit.
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A
So it would stay lit.
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B
That's funny.
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A
And I was standing, you know, 20 or 30 yards away, fishing in my hole, and I was just watching this old man, and I was just like, that guy right there. Like, that's funny. That is. And that. That's a man.
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B
Yeah, he's got it going on. He is.
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A
Dude. He has got it figured out. He is smoking a pipe upside down in the sleet in Oklahoma, catching fish.
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B
That's fun.
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A
Yeah. Well, yeah. So that's some context about how we know each other. Before we jump in, would you just set the stage for us? You know, how old are you? You know, what do you do for a living? Tell us. Tell us about Gigi. Maybe kind of just a quick story about how you guys met.
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B
Sure.
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A
You know, Gigi is. Is the most, unequivocally, the most compassionate human being I've ever met in my life.
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B
To a fault, too.
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A
Well, I'll let you say that. I won't say that I'm joking, but
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B
you need to edit that.
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A
No, no, I'm joking. But Gigi is one of those people that when she gives you a hug, it just feels different.
- [06:49]
B
Yeah, she's the one. So I'll tell you the backstory, but she's the one. I told Jimmy while ago, we're remodeling a bathroom. She's the one that, as you're remodeling the bathroom, she gets all the workers Whataburger gift cards for Christmas. And I looked at her and I said, we just paid them 60 grand for the bathroom. Why am I giving them a Whataburger, too? And that's her. Okay? That's the difference. So just for me. I'm 60, just turned 60, few months back. Gigi is 58. I'm a family physician. But the last two or three years, I've transitioned to more administration. Gigi has education background, been librarian, different things at different schools, but the last few years, she's had the blessing. I will Say the blessing to take care of our parents before they passed. That was her main job, take care of all four of our parents. And now she's got the blessing to take care of our two grandkids. I've got two sons, Jacob and Caleb. Jacob is married, Carly. Carly and Jacob have two children. Bishop Brooks is about to turn three in April, and Emma Drew is six months. And then my other son, Caleb is not married. He's a fisheries biologist and does all these things I wish I could do every day on a boat. And Jacob and Carly are both full time working and Carly's still getting her educational doctorate. So they're busy. And so we try to help them out as much as we can as well. Grandparents and parents, so they're not out tons of debt with childcare and stuff like that.
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A
Yeah. How old are Jacob and Caleb?
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B
Jacob is 30. Caleb is 28.
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A
Okay, so you guys have been empty nester. Well, kind of, but empty nesters for eight, ten years.
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B
Yep. Yep. And so. And back to our togetherness. Gigi and I met in high school, started dating probably my sophomore or my junior year in high school, dated through high school. I was a year ahead of her in school. So I went to Texas Tech, she went to Stephen F. We didn't date during college. God worked it out. I graduated, didn't get in med school the first year, so went back home and lived with parents, saved money and worked before I got in med school. And I got med school the next year. Gigi actually had some health issues at college, had to drop out, came home. We started dating again and got married after the first year of med school. And so God works it all out. Gigi and I, obviously, we loved. She worked for Delta airlines for probably 15 years while I was in med school and a little bit after that, did marketing and reservations for them. And she's. Yeah, she was wonderful. We are. And somebody asked me a while ago, what do you like doing? What's your. And I have hobbies like you hunting and fishing, but really just travel with her and doing stuff with her is really probably it. And that's kind of what we do the most. Like, we're leaving this time next week. We'll go to Phoenix for spring training, go watch, you know, Rangers baseball and stuff like that. We've never done. That's a bucket list thing for us. Yeah. And so we're going to do stuff like that.
- [09:46]
A
Y' all do. You know, I. I do know that about you. Y' all do that a lot. It'll be Some random three day weekend and you guys will be headed off to.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And, and the beautiful part about it is it's not always something extravagant.
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B
No, it's, it's like usually not.
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A
Hey, we picked a place on a map and we're just going to go and we're just going to see what's there.
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B
Yeah, I think we have a 10 hour bus tour of the Grand Canyon on Monday. And so she's like, I want a tour. I'm like, I'll find you a tour. So I found a bus tour of the Grand Canyon on Monday. So yeah, that's gonna be fun.
- [10:18]
A
Well, cool. So let's, let's back up a little bit. I have some, some questions here. So, you know, this is to dad from dad podcast. And one, you know, interesting thing is let's talk about your dad a little bit.
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B
Sure, sure.
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A
Spoiler alert. I'll, I'll just say, kind of the one thing I've known about you is you, you're a medical doctor, went to tech and then went to med school here in the United States. But your dad was a truck driver.
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B
Yeah, it's. Yeah. So I really didn't have any. A lot of relatives that went to college.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And so I had one cousin that went to Texas Tech and played football. I don't know if he ever went to class, but he played football.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And so he was about, probably 15 years older than me. Maybe older than that, maybe 20. But my dad was a truck driver. My mom was a high school grad. That wasn't work. Did bookkeeping for seven UP bottling company in downtown Dallas. And so we were pretty much salt of the earth. Lived in, you know, at one time we were living with my grandmother in a suburb of Dallas in a two bedroom, one bath home with really the four of us because I was the only child. I was actually adopted too. And so, but dad was the, the guy that you looked up to. He was the cowboy. You hear Luke Combs song about, you know, his kid coming home and seeing his dad who's, you know, the cowboy throwing the ball with him in his cowboy boots. That was my dad. He always wore cowboy boots and cowboy hats as a truck driver. He was the, the Burt Reynolds, it was his idol. Right. So, you know, he always had that kind of western gear on and, but you know, it was hard though growing up because my dad would come home on Friday night, he would leave on Sunday morning.
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A
Because he was an over the road truck driver.
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B
Correct, correct. And so, and I would go with him in the summer, some. That was the cool thing. There weren't a lot of legal stuff back then. You could go with him. And when I turned 16, he'd even let me drive a little bit. He told me to keep my keeping schools, to keep the day job, because I wasn't a very good driver.
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A
But.
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B
But yeah, we would. You know, I'd gone to a lot of different states with my dad, from east coast to West Coast, a little bit into the Dakotas, you know, it wasn't. Wasn't my cup of tea necessarily, but you got to see a lot of different country and, you know, it was. I'll tell you one funny story real quick. So I interviewed at a med school in Galveston, okay. And I'm interviewing at this med school. And at this interview you have a PhD interview you and an MD interview. And just so happens the MD I got was a psychiatrist. And he looked at me and I could see him like he's sitting here with me and you. And this is years ago, right? He looks at me, goes, I don't understand how you could go to med school if your dad was a truck driver. And I looked at him, I said, sir, I'll be real honest with you. I don't know anybody in this world that can outwork my dad. And that's what I got from my dad. He was a hard working dude. I mean, you think about driving Lee eight hours, backing up that truck, and then knowing you got to unload every bit of that before you start over again. And back then, it wasn't all this GPS stuff. So he had to finagle their log books to be on time. So he'd run two or three different versions of logbooks so they wouldn't have to park and sleep, right? And so I never knew anybody that worked harder than my dad. And my mom was the same way. I'll say this about my upbringing. I had a grandmother, my mom's mom, her mom, she. Her name was Mavy Brooks. And her claim to fame was. My grandfather died when I was six. He was the sheriff of Hill county in Texas down to Hillsborough. He had one year left on his term. My grandmother took up his last term as sheriff of that county.
- [14:15]
A
No way.
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B
And she was the sheriff. It's in the Dallas Morning News. You can read it. There's an article, I still have it at home. Pistol packing mama. And she would carry her gun, do the whole thing. And that was my mom's mom. Well, that's who we lived with when she. She retired. And she raised Me, took me to school every day.
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A
That.
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B
That lady. And she was the one. She was the one that prayed for me, that made sure I was in church. My mom and dad were working.
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A
Yeah.
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B
My grandmother was the one that did that for me.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And so I look back to her as legacy. My mom and dad were great. They were never bad or anything like that, but my grandmother was the one, the spiritual leader of that group.
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A
Yeah. Wow. So tell us.
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B
We're gonna.
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A
We're gonna talk about your parents and grandparents and those relationships more in a minute. But I wanna. I'm gonna lead the witness here a little bit because. Let me just spill it. You have. We didn't talk about this. I hope you're okay talking about this, but you have a very direct connection to the Oklahoma City bombings.
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B
Yes, sir.
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A
And that had an incredible impact on you. I. I know that, Brent, because when we talk about it, I can feel it. Would you kind of walk us up to how you ended up in Oklahoma City and just what, you know, maybe just share what you're willing to share about that?
- [15:42]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. For sure. I don't hide that. So I was. Did medical school in Fort Worth, Texas, at University of North Texas. It was called TCom, Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine. Had a mentor there. His name was Greg Smith. And as we were looking for residency, me and a friend, we were looking for a place that was a faith based residency that took care of inner city people without a lot of money and things like that. And he said, hey, you need to check this place out in Oklahoma City. It's a faith based Catholic hospital. It's really cool. And so we went and looked at it. I even did multiple, multiple rotations, probably five or six month long rotations there. Even to the part we had to take a leap, a huge leap of faith. Gigi took a job there before I ever got accepted.
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A
Wow.
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B
So she. We moved her into an apartment in Oklahoma City. She's doing marketing for a Delta Airlines in Oklahoma City. And I'm still in Fort Worth finishing up. And I don't even know if I'm getting in.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And God worked it out. We got in. And so we go to Oklahoma City in 1994. In the fall and April 19, 1995, I'm at Children's Hospital Oklahoma City. I was there doing some newborn nursery stuff, circumcision visions, examining babies. And we hear a transformer we think blow up outside the hospital or inside the hospital at that time. We don't have cell phones. We have beepers. We had phones, but. And it said, code black. Return to your home base immediately. My home base was six blocks away. Six blocks away, back towards the Murrah Federal Building was where my hospital was. My hospital was about five and a half blocks from the Murrah Federal Building.
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A
Wow.
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B
And so as I'm going back to my hospital, there's debris everywhere. There's stuff. I mean, there's windows blown out in all the buildings I'm seeing. There's police everywhere. They weren't going to let me in my hospital at first until I showed them my credentials and said I was a doctor. They weren't going to let me in that hospital six blocks away. First thing I hear, you need to go to the ER. So we only had 18 of US residents and we all show up in the ER together, all 18 of us. And I'm still an intern. This is my first year of out of med school. Like, hey, you need to stay in the med. Or you need to stay in the ER and help all the doctors, all the surgeons, stuff like that. Cars start coming in with people in the back of trunks, back seats, ambulances came in. My mom has a picture of me on CNN where she sees. My mom from Dallas sees me unloading people out of the back of an ambulance where they were bodies stacked on top of each other.
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A
Wow.
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B
Anyway, the bad part, what you were kind of alluding to earlier, what really brings it home for me is two of the kids in my practice, the Coverdell boys, were patients of mine that were in the daycare that were killed that day. And so April 19th is one of those days. You still had that, that post traumatic feeling every April 19th, where you go, man, something right today and it's just in your mind, right? And you know, that was a. It was a life changing event for us. I sewed on a lady for two hours in the, in the ICU that didn't make it, you know, and we couldn't recognize her. We had her kids called and tried to find out where she was. My chief resident who was over me, her boyfriend was a federal agent at the Merrill Federal Building. He was killed.
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A
Wow.
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B
So, I mean, in a small community, not small, but a community like Oklahoma City, even though you may not know every individual, you, all of us had connections to it, right? One of the residents above me, his name was Kelton, he. He was ex Marine. We lost him. We didn't know where he went. We see him on the news, he's pulling people out of the building. He's down there.
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A
Wow.
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B
And so, you know, it was, it was one of those God changing moments. The cool thing for us as believers is we were the first hospital down there. So family started coming in and so we had a big collection area. We put just butcher paper around or paper around the edge, writing people's name, where, which hospital they're in and all that stuff. We started praying for the families.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Spending time with the families, loving on them, just trying to be there for them. And it was, it was a trying time, but it was, you know, God. God had a reason. And, you know, I don't know if I'll ever understand it all the way, but it really brought that community together.
- [20:00]
A
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, you, you're at this point, you've graduated from medical school and you're a year into your journey to be a fully practicing doctor and to be exposed to something like that, which, by the way, I mean, most doctors won't see a trauma event of that magnitude in their entire career.
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B
Yeah, right. You hope you don't.
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A
You hope you don't.
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B
Yeah. Right. And that's why I can't even fathom what they went through in New York City.
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A
Oh, man.
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B
I mean, I just. I mean, it was so devastating to us to have. I mean, we admitted 245ish people within the first hour. Wow. To our hospital. And so. So, yeah, I can't even imagine what they went through in New York.
- [20:49]
A
Yeah. Wow. Well, thanks for sharing that. That's a story that you've shared with me a couple of times. And it's heavy, but I think it's interesting. It's interesting how small the world is. You know, you and I have talked about that a lot over the last couple months, but it's just really interesting, you know, and, and kind of along that thread, there's some folks that at work who had relatives that were in the World Trade Centers, you know, and so it's always strange because growing up in rural East Texas, you're. You're removed from the majority of that type of stuff. Right. And I think it's just interesting to hear about those events from somebody, like, from your perspective. So thanks for sharing that with us.
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B
Oh, you're welcome. Yeah. It's. God changed the world. I mean, you know, he's got trials and tribulations for all of us to make us better.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you finished up your residency there, and I, I know at some point you were family practice in the massive East Texas town of. Is it Quitman?
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B
Winsboro?
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A
Winsboro which is right next to Quitman.
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B
Right next to it. Yeah, right next to it.
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A
Winsboro.
- [22:01]
B
Good call.
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A
And then ultimately. And Tyler.
- [22:04]
B
Yeah. So I'll tell you that story.
- [22:07]
A
So.
- [22:07]
B
So you can. So we're. We're trying to find a place to go practice and I say we. So I had a best friend up that I went to med school and residency with. He got married a year after I did or six months after I did. His wife Anna and my wife were best friends. Yeah, we're doing anything we can do to raise our kids in a small town. We both wanted that. We wanted to be in a small town, be in a small church. You know, you have these delusions of grandeur that these things is going to make everything better. Right. And we really felt like God was leading us there. So we wound up in this small town called Winnsboro, Texas. 20, 25 bed hospital. We were doing small town family medicine, doing hospital work, doing nursing homework, seeing patients in clinic, covering the ER every once in a while when we had to, and raising our kids. And it was great. Over time, our personalities grew away a little bit. Just being honest with you, when you're in partnership, business wise, things. And he was still even. He passed away about a year and a half ago. And still one of my best friends when he passed away. But you grow away from each other business wise. And so we were together and at some point in time I felt like I needed to join corporate medicine instead of just being in private practice as I was getting upside down, money wise. And this doesn't matter for this and you can keep this or not. But part of the thing, in a small town, you don't limit who comes to see you and whether they have whatever insurance or not. And I was not a respecter of persons. That doesn't make me perfect or better than anybody else. But so the insurance that don't pay me much, I got upside down. I was losing money. And so I joined a company which now is Trinity Clinic, which I kind of lead now. I joined them so I could actually make money and they could pay me and I didn't have to worry about all the practice stuff. He didn't want to do that. So we split our practice practices. Long story short, when I joined them, I've got this young man that trained under me in residency in Oklahoma City, coming up to my clinic as a diabetes doctor. And every month he'd come up, he'd go, hey, Brent, man, my kids come home from school, man, they're quoting scripture verses, man, they love the Lord. He goes, I know you love the Lord, and I know you're raising your kids right, but you ought to think about this school, dude. It's called Grace. It's down at Tyler. Just think about it. He said, if God wants you there, he'll get you there. And so there again, God moved in all of our hearts. My sons were junior high and one was in elementary. And we brought them down to Grace and Tyler and just said it was getting harder and harder to practice because I couldn't be away from the hospital. I was missing my kids games at times, and it just frustrated me. I felt like God was moving us. And finally both my kids looked at me and they go, I think we're supposed to go, dad. And Gigi already had told me that. And as you interviewed Scott while ago, Scott Pierce was one of the instrumental people that did this. I went to a basketball at Grace Community School, and Scott Pierce, who is one of our friends here, was sitting there behind me that I knew was a device rep that come in my office all the time. And I'm like, if he's here, something's got to be cool. So I talked to Scott and Scott's like, hey, Brandon, this is a pretty cool deal. And so we moved to Tyler. Multiple reasons, but we really felt God was leading us to Tyler. And another crazy story was my boss didn't want me to go. He said, I'm not going to guarantee you a salary to go. You're going to be on total production. Whatever you see is the only thing you're going to make. So you're starting over from zero.
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A
Wow.
- [25:32]
B
And I just felt like God will honor it if I do it right. And I'm not saying I'm better than anybody else by doing that. I mean, I'm not. I was scared to death. You know how we are. Right. I mean, you step out on that limb, you're scared. I was scared.
- [25:45]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I really felt God was like, hey, I want you to go and I want you to trust me.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I never took a hit and pay.
- [25:53]
A
Yeah.
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B
It was stupid how much more money I made just coming here. And it's not about the money.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But it was about him showing that if I was living in faith.
- [26:02]
A
Yeah.
- [26:03]
B
He would bless me. And it didn't have to be money. It could be other stuff. I'm just saying at that time, he showed me that he was a bigger God than my own mind thought he was.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Wow. So the boys were in junior high.
- [26:19]
B
Caleb was starting junior High. And Tyler. Jacob was starting high school in Tyler.
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A
Okay. All right, let's talk about the boys. I know him, you know. I know Caleb better than I know Jacob. Yeah, I love Caleb. I hope Caleb listens to this. He's a wild man.
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B
He is.
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A
Man, I love.
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B
He's at my house right now, actually. He was over there this morning. Breakfast.
- [26:41]
A
Yeah. He's such a good dude. Really. I. And dude, he has the coolest job. I don't know if I. I'll be kind of anonymous about this, but I mean, basically he works for a company that manages biology, freshwater biology. Everything from shocking ponds to do fish surveys to, you know, figure out what's the population of fish and what varieties are there and what they need to do from a stocking strategy and feeding strategy and all that stuff. But also vegetation control fit, you know, so they get to operate and predator control and. Oh, okay. Predator control control. Yeah. So they do, you know, they have fan boats and they have, you know, jet boats and they have regular outboard motorboats and they travel all over the state of Texas and it's a really cool job though.
- [27:36]
B
It is. He's. He's lived on the edge a little bit. They were on the Rio Grande.
- [27:40]
A
Yeah.
- [27:40]
B
Got shot at.
- [27:41]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [27:42]
B
Which was not good. He was down in Houston during the flood when the hurricane came through, rescuing people from apartments because they had fan boats.
- [27:51]
A
Yeah.
- [27:52]
B
And then tomorrow he may be in, you name it. Fayetteville, Arkansas, shocking up, you know, rainbow trout or something. Who knows?
- [28:00]
A
That's.
- [28:00]
B
That's them. That's what they do. They're a. A and M based biology company that do non public water.
- [28:07]
A
Yeah.
- [28:08]
B
Management. They do some consulting for public waters, but most of it is in private landowners.
- [28:14]
A
Yeah.
- [28:15]
B
Which is really. They. He's taken me a couple times and you're right. It's a cool job.
- [28:18]
A
Yeah. Well, and then, you know, as we talk about the boys, because kind of want to get into the fatherhood piece of that. But both athletes. Jacob played baseball in high school and then went on to play baseball at etbu.
- [28:36]
B
That's right.
- [28:37]
A
And then Caleb, who is. How tall is Caleb? Six, three, six, four.
- [28:42]
B
Yeah. He's somewhere in there between it and.
- [28:44]
A
And big. Like. Like a refrigerator.
- [28:46]
B
He was.
- [28:47]
A
Yeah.
- [28:47]
B
He just lost 35 pounds.
- [28:49]
A
Oh, did he? Okay.
- [28:50]
B
And so he's down about 209.
- [28:52]
A
Okay. Golly.
- [28:53]
B
His playing weight at. He went to Harden, Simmons and Abilene and played for a year. His playing weight there was a. He thinks getting really close to 290 ish. Yeah, something like that.
- [29:04]
A
I mean, when I first met him, he was a. Yeah, he was a beast.
- [29:08]
B
Yeah, he was big.
- [29:09]
A
So big. Well, let's talk about that a little bit. So a couple elements that are unique here. You know, we were talking before we turned the microphones on, but we talked about your occupation. And I, I haven't said this outright, but it just kind of occurs to me for the folks listening, you know, one of the things that I want to recognize is occupation and means have an impact on fatherhood, have an impact on, you know, the types of problems you have, the types of things that you get to do with your family. And I want to be cognizant of that because we, you know, up to this point, if I'm just being honest, we've, we've had some very successful people on and we've, we've got some folks who are successful in their own right coming up, but are more in the blue collar trade. I just kind of wanted to acknowledge that. But you know, could we just kind of talk about I have two girls, you have two boys. You know, Scott and I talked about what it was like raising three monstrous boys. His boys are big, big boys, right? Yeah, but. Yeah, and I really don't, I don't know where I'm going with that, Brent, but like, what's it like, what's it like raising boys and especially such, such athletic boys.
- [30:31]
B
Yeah. You know, even I think back to when they were young, they, they were both pretty good athletes and, and that's all, you know, it's, it's, it's, I mean, athletes is it, it's to where you're at. Okay. I mean, you know, they're, they're not Michael Jordan.
- [30:53]
A
Right.
- [30:53]
B
They're not that. But they, in a small town growing up, they were above average athletes.
- [30:59]
A
Right.
- [30:59]
B
Even at Grace Community School in Tyler, which is still a small community, they were pretty good athletes. But saying all that, I had little to hardly any athletic ability. I played a little bit of basketball in high school and you know, probably was cut more than I got in a game. But anyway, my father in law and we'll talk about him in a minute, but he played from University of Arkansas, transfer as a lineman back in the late 50s, played with Jimmie Johnson, Jerry Jones there was not on the national championship team with him. If you know anything about that, transferred to University of Texas. Arlington is in their hall of fame. So my father in law was pretty athletic, I mean and went on to play a little bit of semi pro fast pitch Softball. And so both my kids probably got some of their ability from my father in law. In fact, Jacob, my oldest, looked like him really, growing up, because he was thick like my father in law. And. Yeah, not that tall. My. My oldest is only. He's probably only five, 10 at the most. But anyway, growing up with those two, I mean, was fun. I mean, yes, it was hard. I mean, Jacob, you could threaten spanking him and he would cry. Caleb, you would break two switches on him or two wooden spoons and he'd go, dad, when you gonna hit me? Kind of deal. You know, it just didn't work that well. And so you had to do different things, different with them. But both of them knew we would be watching that show on TV if a commercial came on. We had a rule at our house, anytime a commercial came up, dad's free game to wrestle. And so it was on like wwe. And so. So anytime the commercial comes on, they're both on me.
- [32:38]
A
Yeah.
- [32:39]
B
And later in life, it didn't hurt. I mean, it didn't hurt that much at first, but later it did really hurt. I was like, okay, I just faked it being injured. But. But. But soon as the commercial's over, mom is a referee and she stops everything.
- [32:53]
A
Yeah.
- [32:54]
B
And so. But they were. They were a lot of fun. My only had one really. I mean, a couple regrets with watching them grow up, but one playing sport. Regret was they didn't. Caleb got hurt his freshman year and didn't get to play football with his brother because his brother was three grades ahead. And he probably would have, because he was that good, would have got to play football with Jacob, and he didn't because he got hurt.
- [33:17]
A
Ye.
- [33:18]
B
And so that was one regret for them because they were really close, too. I still remember the picture of Jacob. I'm sorry. Caleb, my youngest, when he lost. It's probably a quarterfinal game in Taps. Whatever division we were in, we lost down in Crockett, Texas. He was the last one on the field. And I still remember Jacob, my oldest son, with his arm around him, sitting on the bench and both of them crying. And you don't forget that, right?
- [33:44]
A
Yeah.
- [33:45]
B
And it's just that kind of relationship. When they both came back to Tyler from college, they lived together, they were best friends, but, you know, they were a little bit of mama's boy. Even Caleb today still takes care of his mama. Yeah. I mean, he really is particular about his mom. He's going to. You're not going to do something to his mama.
- [34:05]
A
Yeah.
- [34:05]
B
And even he comes over almost Every Saturday morning and fixes breakfast or brings us a sausage biscuit or something. I mean, he's. He's a good kid, and, you know, he's a little bit of a free spirit, but, man, he. He's kind of. He's gonna make sure his mama's all right.
- [34:19]
A
Yeah. Well, hey, can we talk about that some more? So. And I. This is an impo. This might be an impossible question, but they're three years apart. My girls are three years apart right now. My girl, two years, three grades. Two years, three grades. Okay.
- [34:40]
B
Yeah.
- [34:40]
A
Ken and Cali are two years. Yeah. I guess they're actually two years and ten months. So close to.
- [34:46]
B
That's about right. But
- [34:49]
A
right now, they are insanely close.
- [34:52]
B
Yep.
- [34:53]
A
But they're still young.
- [34:54]
B
Yeah.
- [34:54]
A
But they literally play every. They are together all the time.
- [34:58]
B
Okay, I want to tell you the boy story. Right?
- [35:00]
A
Yeah.
- [35:00]
B
So here's the boy story. That side of it. So. So they fought like dogs. I mean, my two boys would scrap. They would get into it. I walked to the Suburban one day from a. Some grocery store or something, and I saw the youngest one hit the oldest one right in the nose with a. With a fist. And I saw tears coming down the oldest one's face. And look, he looks at him, goes, are you sure that's what you want to do? I'm like, oh, my goodness. They're about to just go. So that's. That's them, right?
- [35:27]
A
Yeah.
- [35:28]
B
So then on the other shoe of that, I'm at some event with my oldest son coaching a team or something, and one of the kids starts picking on my younger son, who's just there watching.
- [35:39]
A
Yeah.
- [35:40]
B
I look up, and my older son has this kid picking on his brother. Down on the ground, pinned on the ground with his arm, his forearm across his neck.
- [35:48]
A
Yeah.
- [35:49]
B
And I'm like, hold the phone. What are we doing here?
- [35:52]
A
Yeah.
- [35:52]
B
That's the connection they had. You're not gonna mess. And that. You hear that story a lot, right? Yeah, but you're. We're gonna fight, but you're not gonna mess with my brother.
- [36:01]
A
Yeah.
- [36:01]
B
And they both were that way towards each other.
- [36:03]
A
Dang, man. Is there something. Is there something. How do you foster that? You know, that's the question, Right.
- [36:12]
B
I mean, you know, that's just the honor and the justice and the chivalry of it. Right, right. That I'm going to take up for my mom or my brother or my family.
- [36:23]
A
Yeah.
- [36:23]
B
Yeah. I think God puts that in us, in our hearts as men a lot. I'm not trying to be a sexist, but I think there's something born in us that we want to take care. And I think as Christians, we want to take care of others, too. Gigi does that, too. She may not go to that extreme, but she's got that mama bear approach at times, too. So it messes with her kids. I know Whitney will, too, because I've seen her. I mean, you don't mess with her kids, and so there's some of that. But I think you foster it through modeling it a lot, and I think you model that for your kids. And, you know, you're going to coach your kids and be tough on your kids, but you're also going to fight for them like crazy. And they know you do that. And I know I do that for them, too. Right. And whatever that looks like, I'm going to go to bat for him.
- [37:09]
A
Yeah.
- [37:10]
B
And I'll tell you one more story real quick, and I hope I don't get in trouble on this one. My younger son struggled a little bit in high school. He was crazy smart all the way through junior high. And he's just, something happens in high school and he just doesn't like turning homework. You can call it whatever you want to adhd, bad parenting, I don't know. But it just didn't work right.
- [37:29]
A
Yeah.
- [37:30]
B
And he struggled the last couple years in high school. He still did okay grades, but he struggled just getting by. And teacher comes up to his brother, says, hey, what's wrong with your brother? Why is he not as smart as you? Kind of, that kind of question. My oldest son goes, you don't get it, do you? He's the smartest kid in your class. You just can't touch him. You can't get to him. Funny thing was he takes the PSAT and scores in the 98th percentile of the nation in that subject that year.
- [38:00]
A
Wow.
- [38:01]
B
And my oldest son was right and took up for him to the teacher at the school.
- [38:05]
A
Yeah.
- [38:05]
B
Which is crazy. You can't teach that. Really.
- [38:07]
A
And, and so that's so interesting. Something that I've really been trying to explore with you, you, you guys that are, you know, a couple seasons ahead is, you know, what are the inputs that creates that lasting, like, family unit, you know, and, and I know that you guys have that, you know, and I, I, I haven't found the silver bullet. You know, I haven't found the secret sauce, but it's something that we've talked a lot about on here. So I, you know, I guess to maybe make that Into a question or just kind of open it is like, is there, is there anything that you feel like you and Gigi did that you can identify that that can be replicated?
- [38:59]
B
Well, so let me take a step back, too. So because of my dad's work ethic, but lack of being there. Yeah, I refuse to let that happen for me.
- [39:12]
A
Yeah.
- [39:12]
B
And one of the secret sauces for our family where we were going to be there for our kids, whatever they did, we're going to be there for them, cheering them on, pushing them on, whatever it was. And so we were always going to be there. And so I think they saw our dedication to them, and we didn't pick their sport, their music they learned, or the whatever instrument they were playing at the time or whatever. We didn't pick that, but we supported it. We didn't push them to burn them out. There's some. There's some. There's some there. You know, if the kids want to go outside and play catch, I'm going to go outside, play catch. I don't care if it's a three foot of snow, I'm going to go out there with the kids. If they want to go out and back and shoot the BB gun, learn how to shoot, I'm going to go out there and do it. And so. So they saw that support. We drugged them along to some things we wanted to do, but really we came along as a family and not as individuals. I don't know if there's a secret sauce to get that inside of them. I think living in the Word, looking at stories of the Bible, looking at how you live your life according to what God says, even though you screw up and always having forgiveness and always having that ability to. Because one of the things we did is if I mess something up, our boys would have. If they mess something up, if they had to go make it right. I still remember a time where Caleb did something to some kid at school here, maybe took something and broke it or something. One of the things he had to do is he had to get his own money, go buy that for the kid and make it right, and say, apologize to the kid. And so we lived with a fairness there and that justice and that Micah 6, 8 do, right? I mean, you know, do justice and love mercy and walk humbly. And, you know, sometimes the walk humbly is a little bit hard for my boys. They're proud at times. I get that. We all are. But you try to live in that space some. Right? And so it's not been perfect, man. Man, I tell you, you know, there's some things that, you know, I wish I'd have done more of with one of them or the other one.
- [41:11]
A
Yeah.
- [41:12]
B
And. But it's just loving on them all the time.
- [41:17]
A
While you were talking there, I'm kind of reminded. I don't think I've said this before, but I heard something pretty profound at one point, which was, If you don't make time for your kids now when they're younger, they won't make time for you when they're older.
- [41:38]
B
Yeah.
- [41:39]
A
And several episodes ago I kind of talked about. This is something I'm really wrestling with because I am in the throes of. They will literally take all of the attention that I will give them. And I stand convicted in that every day because, I mean, if I'm just being honest with myself, I don't give them everything I've got to give them. I got other stuff I want to be doing and I don't think I'm doing that right, by the way.
- [42:15]
B
But how much have you given up? I'm just going to ask you. I'm going to be the interviewer now.
- [42:19]
A
Okay. Yeah.
- [42:20]
B
How much have you given up? Because I know your hobbies. I don't know all of them, but I know that you're one of the most passionate men I've ever met. When you're onto a hobby.
- [42:32]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [42:32]
B
I mean, when we did the boat race and all that stuff, I've never seen somebody's intense as you and Jimmy and Drew. Okay. When, when we fly fish. Same thing. You're. I mean, I can just take a little bit of it. You got to take the whole thing 100%. So what have you had to cut back on in your life because of your girls?
- [42:56]
A
Well, everything. I mean. Yeah. I, When I, I.
- [43:06]
B
And how hard is it for you? Not. Not what you cut back.
- [43:08]
A
Yeah.
- [43:09]
B
In your brain. Because you're not a 80 guy, you're 100 guy.
- [43:13]
A
Yeah.
- [43:13]
B
How hard for it's you to deal with it where you can't be 100 all out.
- [43:17]
A
Yeah. Well, that's the funny thing that I've had to re baseline too. And I had this. Whitney actually spoke some incredible truth into my life a couple of years ago. I had a bass boat. I had a Ranger Z520 Comanche, beautiful red. And you know, I've always had like aluminum flat bottom boats leading up to that. And then finally I got to the point in life, by the way, I think I had a one year old and a four year Old. And I just got the wild hair. One day I said, you know what? I'm going to trade my boat in and I'm going to sell my boat. I'm going to buy a ranger bass boat. And I'm. Here's my justification. I'm going to do this because I want to take the kids fishing. Right. Well, turns out that the amount of time that a four year old will spend in a bass boat is about 15 minutes, you know, fishing right now. They'll stay out there all day, swim and play and stuff like that. But I only had that boat for about a year and I sold it because Whitney and I were having a conversation and she's had to remind me this of a. A couple times because you're right, I'm an extreme personality. When I learn about something or research something or get into a hobby, it is 110 that thing. And Whitney said, you know, because I was kind of getting frustrated with her. I was like, hey, why? You know, at the time I was like, like I was convinced I was gonna buy a sailing boat, like a, like a sailboat, and I was gonna keep it down in Corpus Christi and we were gonna go down there on the weekends and we were gonna sail the Caribbean. And like, is this whole thing. I've joked about this before, that this is kind of how I am. And Whitney just said I was like, frustrated with her because I was like, why are you not more excited about this? Like, doesn't this sound awesome?
- [45:09]
B
Right?
- [45:10]
A
And Whitney said, it does sound awesome, but not right now. Yeah, not with the kids, you know, and she's reminded me of that a few times as I've started to get spooled up about these hobbies. And I've tried to re baseline to what are the things that I can be like, obsessive about that include the kids, you know, what are the hobbies?
- [45:36]
B
And it's going to be their hobbies now.
- [45:37]
A
That's right.
- [45:37]
B
You're gonna be 100 it with them.
- [45:40]
A
Yeah.
- [45:40]
B
And that's what I did. Right. And so I'm having you answer the question for me. Is what I'm doing.
- [45:44]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [45:45]
B
I mean, I gave up golf while they were small.
- [45:47]
A
Yeah.
- [45:48]
B
I didn't give up duck hunting because I could drag one of them with me usually and make myself feel better about myself.
- [45:53]
A
Yeah.
- [45:54]
B
But yeah, you give up things and you just answered it for me. So thanks.
- [45:58]
A
Yeah, no, no, it's a good point though. And I think this is a good thing for dads just in general, because some of the folks that are listening to this have kids that are in that newborn toddler, not in school age yet. And I'll tell you, this is some wisdom. Get ahead of this, which is understand that your hobbies need to change.
- [46:22]
B
Yeah.
- [46:22]
A
Your hobbies need to change so that they are more inclusive to your family. Because if your hobbies take you away from your family, you're gonna, it's gonna be, you're gonna feel guilty while you're there. You're gonna feel like you shouldn't be there, like you should be at home with your kids. And here's what that looks like for us. We've gotten really big into camping, and I think I've talked about this before, but I've kind of just said, you know, there's a day that's going to come where the girls aren't going to want to go camping anymore. We camp as much as we can now.
- [46:52]
B
Right.
- [46:52]
A
And I obsess over it. I meticulously plan these long 2000, 3000, 4000 mile road trips, and we're trying to go to all of the national parks in the United States, and we tent camp and we go exploring and do those things. So that's a great point. But, and I think that's a big
- [47:10]
B
element to, but there's going to be a time.
- [47:13]
A
Yeah.
- [47:14]
B
When they don't want to camp. And I've had, I've had three bumper pool campers in my life.
- [47:17]
A
Yep.
- [47:19]
B
And, and I remember that day when one of them turned 14 or 13, and he's like, Brent. Or he's like, dad, can I stay with Mason or somebody like that today? Because I don't want to go camping. I got a baseball game.
- [47:31]
A
Yeah.
- [47:31]
B
You're like, dad, gum, sell the camper.
- [47:33]
A
Yep. It's over. Yeah, you're right. You're right. I, I. Man, that's some good wisdom there, Brent. I'm glad you brought that point up because it's easy to get kind of down on yourself about spending time with your kids, but I think a really important element of that is find something that is enjoyable and passionate about that you can include your kids and your wife in.
- [47:55]
B
Yeah. How many, how much money have we lost on boats, though? Oh, I had a fishing ski boat. You were here, I think, when I had it? Probably.
- [48:04]
A
Yeah.
- [48:04]
B
I don't even know why'd I buy that. Yeah, it was the worst. I mean, they didn't want to go.
- [48:09]
A
Yeah.
- [48:09]
B
I wanted to go.
- [48:10]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, foreign. Let's, so let's talk. Let's kind of Back up here. Okay, let's talk about one of the things I want to make sure we talk about with you is let me. I'm just going to throw it all out there and then we'll kind of pick it apart. I want to talk about in laws.
- [48:35]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [48:35]
A
I want to talk about your relationship with your in laws and what did you struggle with there? How did you navigate that? I also want to talk about in laws because you are in laws now to Carly.
- [48:49]
B
Sure.
- [48:50]
A
Right. Let's talk a little bit about that. And then kind of culminating with being a granddad and what that looks like. And you know, specifically, here's some feedback from the listeners about grandparents. Is the demographic of people that we're living that the most of the people that are listening are under the age of 45 have.
- [49:11]
B
Okay.
- [49:12]
A
And a common theme question that I get emailed is how do you set boundaries with grandparents? How do you navigate grandparents that can seem like they're actively undermining me? You know, they're the grandparents just want to be the fun grandparents. They're spoiling the kids. They're letting their kids do stuff that they can't do when they're here and then it makes it to. Right, okay, so let's get to the grandparents.
- [49:35]
B
You're going to try to get me in trouble? No, you're going to try to get me in trouble.
- [49:39]
A
But let's start with in laws, though.
- [49:40]
B
Okay, so let's back up then. So let's talk about my in laws first. Well, and first of all, I mentioned to you while ago I was really close to my maternal grandmother, but I was not close to either one of my grandfathers. So I didn't have my. My dad's dad died before I was born. My. I still remember my mom's grand or my mom's dad, but I was six when he died. So I try to set the stage for that, saying that that I look at my parents and Gigi's parents as they were grandparents to my kids too. Right. But before they were grandparents, they were my parents and in laws. Well, my in laws were awesome. And I'll say that forever. I will say we had some bumps early on when we were dating. I needed a job and I went to work for my father in. Oh, unloading trucks.
- [50:38]
A
All right.
- [50:39]
B
On the dock of Irving, Texas, and I was unloading trucks. Now here's the funny part, Lee, you know how you're dating early on and at that time I was 17. 16, 17, whatever. And we get in a fight now not I'm only in the fight with my wife to be in girlfriend. I'm in a fight with my boss.
- [50:57]
A
Yeah.
- [50:58]
B
Oh, it was bad. So now the boss is not liking me. But. But to his credit, we called him big guy. His name was Glenn. But to his credit, he was always the rational one of the family. Oh, he'd tell us to go, gigi, Gigi, you need to just suck it up and go talk or something like that instead of pouting, that kind of stuff. So he was the good guy. And my mother in law was just phenomenal. I remember when we had Jacob, my first, I was in residency. You're working a jillion hours a week. I'm like, her name is Dream. I'm like, dream a man. She goes, I'm on my way. You don't have to ask Brent. I'm on my way. I'm coming to help. That was her. She was the godliest person I think I've ever met. She had her struggles too, but man, she was. And that's where Gigi gets it. To be honest with you. Her mom was a saint. I mean, she was just loved on my kids, loved on me. They treated me like I was their son from day one. Dating, really. And so we had a great relationship. My parents, because I was an only child, obviously they, Gigi was just more than they could ever have asked for because my, my Gigi loved on my parents like there was no tomorrow. Yeah, now I'll switch to my kids now. Now I have kids and I'm dealing with grandparents, right? They were a lot closer to Gigi's mom and dad because they, Gigi's mom and dad were a little bit more, I don't know how to say this, more a little bit socially aware. You can see sports and kids and actions. My parents were a little bit more awkward and just didn't understand some of that stuff. So my kids kind of resented my parents at times. Not in a bad way, but just like, oh, we gotta go to grandma and grandpa's house again kind of deal. And so, you know, oh, we gotta have this. And they gotta make the same joke. You know how it is with grandparents. And so there was a little bit of that awkwardness with my parents and just because my parents were not as socially aware and so. But it was a good relationship with even my kids, really loved them a lot. I'll tell you a funny story. My mother in law passes away and my youngest son always promised her because he was about his early 20s, always promised her to take her to casino. She wasn't a big gambler, but she would go play penny Annie slots or something like that at. At Shreveport, whatever it was. And my youngest son said she gr. Passed away. I'm going to go gamble in honor of grand.
- [53:40]
A
This. This is Caleb.
- [53:41]
B
Oh, yeah. So you can see this, right? You can see this happening.
- [53:45]
A
Yeah.
- [53:45]
B
He drives over to Shreveport in honor of his grandmother.
- [53:48]
A
Yeah.
- [53:49]
B
And he's going to gamble.
- [53:50]
A
Yeah.
- [53:53]
B
$17,000 winner.
- [53:55]
A
No way.
- [53:56]
B
Yes. He was 117 grand. Comes home. 17 grand grand. And splits it with the other cousins.
- [54:06]
A
Splits it. No way.
- [54:08]
B
Other cousins.
- [54:09]
A
In memory of.
- [54:10]
B
And he had to pay taxes on it. So he gets double dipped. He pays taxes on it and he gives part of it away. Wow. But that's him. And so, yeah, that's what that grandparent meant to him. And so you can see, you know, my parents would come to some of their games and do some of that stuff and they got it a little bit, but my in laws would live at their games, you know, that kind of stuff. It was, you know, I'll say. One of the biggest blessings in my life, in my wife's life was our parents. Her parents first. And then my parents figured out we can't make it on our own. We need Gigi and Brent to help. Now they. Her parents had other kids, but. But they wanted to be close to Gigi and the boys and so they moved down here. We moved them down here to Tyler. Then my parents moved to Tyler. They both are Both couples passed. But the. The time we got to spend with them.
- [55:07]
A
Yeah.
- [55:08]
B
Was so goodly. It was a time. And don't get me wrong, it's hard to go, man. I got to go to assisted living and visit my mom, who's getting confused. And you whined about it, but you go, man. God, you're so good.
- [55:21]
A
Yeah.
- [55:21]
B
Because I get to spend the last few minutes with these people.
- [55:24]
A
Yeah.
- [55:25]
B
It was so rich of a blessing that Gigi and I will never ever take for granted. That God bless us with.
- [55:32]
A
Yeah.
- [55:33]
B
And so some people go, that's a. They put you out, Brent. Now you know, God blessed us.
- [55:39]
A
Yeah.
- [55:40]
B
Because we got to see their wisdom at the end of their life.
- [55:42]
A
Yeah.
- [55:43]
B
Sit on the front porch with my father in law. He liked to smile, smoke cigars. Yeah, he'd smoke a cigar and he'd just sit there and talk about life. Dude.
- [55:51]
A
Yeah.
- [55:51]
B
Or my dad, he'd sit next to him. He's watching, you know, some western on tv. Brent, you know who that is? That's who that is, this is what he did. I mean, just that wisdom, dude.
- [56:02]
A
Yeah.
- [56:02]
B
You just can't take for granted what, what you can give those kids. And so my, my grandkids or my kids would eat that up too.
- [56:08]
A
Yeah. I'm gonna take a second to just kind of share a part of the story about my mom, if you don't mind. Yeah, yeah. Just because end of life care, I think this seems like an appropriate time to tell a part of that story. So I've shared before that my mom passed away in 2013, but here's the other side of that and hearing you talk about the blessing that it was to be a part of that. My parents got divorced when I was 10. My mom was sick from the time I was about 4 years old to the time she passed away. She never really got better. 19 years in remission. Breast cancer came back when I was probably a senior in high school or freshman in college. And through. I've shared this before, but through seventh grade to graduating high school, we probably moved 10 or 12 times. This is just a very. We moved a lot and we lived in some real crap holes and we lived in some great places. It was very hot and cold from a money standpoint, but had some severe stages of like, poverty. Anyways, in college I went to visit my mom and I slept on her couch. And when I. I didn't know really where she was staying, but she was. I mean, she was effectively. When I got there, I realized that she. The only place that she could afford to live was section 8 housing. Basically it was a. It was a government subsidized old people apartment complex, but there was no care. It was just an apartment complex. It was subsidized by the government. It's gross. It was one bedroom. The walls were stained yellow from cigarette smoke. And you know, I came home from that trip and mom was the. The cancer was back. At this point, she was. She was not. She was getting worse and worse. And my dad was in real estate. And I told my dad, I said, hey, I'd like you to help Whitney and I buy a house. Not financially, but I'd like for you to find us a house that we could buy. I was still in college, Whitney was still in college, but my dad, being in real estate, found a 1600 square foot, three bedroom, two bath house that was in a U.S. department of Agriculture district. We qualified for a USDA loan at 21 years old. Zero down 3.14% interest rate or something crazy like that. And we ended up buying this house and we bought the house in August and mom moved in with us in October. We lived there for about a month and a half, two months. And over the next couple of months, Mom's health got really, really bad. Whitney was actually able to take short term family medical leave. So they kept her job on hold and she stayed at home. And mom, Whitney, for the last, I can't remember exactly month and a half, two months of my mom's life, Whitney was at home with my mom 24, 7. Basically. Hospice was from the time mom moved in with us essentially to the time she passed away. Hospice was in the house two or three days a week. It was end of life care, you know. But to hear you talk about the blessing, it was so hard to see her fade away, you know, And I actually, I was. I was working at Lowe's
- [60:04]
B
and
- [60:06]
A
going to college. I was not home very much. But here's, here's. You want to talk about the Lord working in kind of crazy ways. The job that I had at Lowe's was incredibly inflexible. As an assistant store manager, I had the keys to the front door. When I was there, I couldn't leave, leave because I was the person in charge. I got a job working for a new company Monday through Friday, 45 hours a week, three days before my mom passed away. And I got a phone call at, I don't know, 10 o' clock in the morning, Whitney called and Whitney's. I've been working at this new job with the company that I'm still with today. Third day on the job, Whitney calls and says, hey, it's time. You need to come home. And I called my boss and said, scott, my. My mom is. She's about to pass away. I need to go home. And, you know, he was like, what? You know, this is crazy. Yeah, go, you know, do what you heat. Because he didn't know, but because, because I had started the new job and because Whitney was able to be there, I was able to get home in about 15 minutes. And Whitney and I spent the last two or three or four hours of Mom. You know, sometimes with cancer, death is a very slow process, you know, I mean, you're a doctor, you know that it takes a long time. It's. It's not like they just take their last breath. I mean, it can be gruesome. But Whitney and I were able to be there sitting by her bedside, holding her hand when she passed away. And as traumatizing as that may sound, you know, and not, not to be too graphic or Gross. But gasping for breath. You know, is this the last breath? You know, I mean, it was. It's gruesome. It's ugly, it's nasty. But I don't think I would change that for the world.
- [62:00]
B
That's right, Because
- [62:04]
A
I know that she knew that we were there with her when she passed away. She was not alone in any way. And, you know, if she had been in Waco, I wouldn't have been able to be there. I could. I wouldn't have made it in time, you know, and so, I don't know. The Lord just works in really mysterious ways. And, you know, I'll just finish off by saying. And I tell everybody this as a part of this story, but I. And I told Whitney this, too, but I am forever indebted to Whitney. And I. Maybe that's an unhealthy thing to be indebted to your spouse, but I view it as indebted. I. I am forever thankful and indebted to Whitney for my. Which, by the way, my mom loved Whitney. I mean, she was like her own daughter.
- [62:54]
B
Yeah.
- [62:55]
A
And funny. Funny enough. And then I'll stop talking about this, but seventh grade, a National Honor Society ceremony is the first time mom and I were at the school together. And mom walked into the library in Douglas, Texas. High school, graduating class of 18 people. And mom sat down. We're sitting in library chairs. And I said to Mom, I said, do you see that girl over there? I said, her name's Whitney. Mom was like, wow, she's really pretty. I said, mom, she doesn't know it yet, but I'm gonna marry that girl that was in seventh grade.
- [63:31]
B
That's awesome, dude.
- [63:32]
A
And we didn't get. We didn't even start dating for another five years. Okay. I tried to date her for five years. It took me that long to wear her down, But.
- [63:40]
B
Gotta wear down those defenses.
- [63:41]
A
That's right. But anyways, sorry, I just kind of wanted to share that, because listening to you talk about the blessing that it is to be there at the end of life, I. Here's my word of encouragement to you. If you have a parent who's sick or as your parents get to that point in life, you will not regret spending as much time as humanly possible as you can with them.
- [64:13]
B
Yeah.
- [64:14]
A
But you will regret the opposite.
- [64:16]
B
That's right. And it's. You know, it's awkward. And let me just tell you the awkward part. Just. And I'm. I'm indebted Gigi the way you are, Whitney. Gigi would go visit My mom have lunch with her every day at the assisted living after my dad passed. So she was by herself.
- [64:30]
A
Yeah.
- [64:30]
B
She had dementia.
- [64:32]
A
Yeah.
- [64:32]
B
She would say inappropriate things to the staff, and poor Gigi's just sitting there going, oh. But in the end, yeah, it was worth it.
- [64:45]
A
Yeah.
- [64:45]
B
And it's just like, man, what the heck?
- [64:47]
A
Yeah.
- [64:48]
B
God is just so good.
- [64:49]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you find yourself in that scenario, look, this is just wisdom. Like, I've lived it. You've lived it. I think we agree. You will not regret spending as much time as humanly possible as you can
- [65:07]
B
with your parents, because what comes to your mind when you think of it, you think of Joseph in the Bible wanting to see his dad. He's in Egypt, and he wants to see his dad. The brothers are cool and everything. I want to see my dad.
- [65:18]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [65:20]
B
And that. Right. I mean, it's. You just want to see your. And I don't want to cry, but I've not taken my dad's number out of my phone.
- [65:29]
A
Yeah.
- [65:29]
B
I want him to call me one more time.
- [65:31]
A
Yeah.
- [65:31]
B
That kind of stuff. I mean, that's. That's just it, right? I mean, you want that one more call.
- [65:36]
A
Yeah.
- [65:36]
B
And it's just. It is what it is, you know? God's so good to give us the time he gives us, man.
- [65:43]
A
It's funny you say that. My mom's number is still in my phone.
- [65:46]
B
Yep.
- [65:47]
A
I don't know who has the number, but. But it's still in there. And.
- [65:51]
B
Yeah.
- [65:52]
A
You know, I remember I was devastated when this happened. It was in 2013, so it's 13 years ago at this. This point, but sometime my iPhone updated, and I had. I had 10 or 15 voicemails from my mom on my phone.
- [66:07]
B
Yep.
- [66:08]
A
And at some point over the years, those voicemails aren't on my phone anymore. And I remember going to look for them, just. I just wanted to hear Mom. Yep. You know, and them not being there, and I was kind of like.
- [66:21]
B
And the funny thing is, they'll say the same thing every day.
- [66:23]
A
Yeah.
- [66:23]
B
My dad. Don't work too hard, Brent.
- [66:25]
A
Yeah.
- [66:25]
B
Get home, be with Gigi.
- [66:26]
A
Yeah.
- [66:27]
B
I mean, you know, that kind of stuff. I mean, you would hear the same thing, but you just want to hear it one more time.
- [66:30]
A
Yeah, that's right.
- [66:31]
B
So it's good.
- [66:32]
A
Yeah. Well, thanks for letting me share that, you know.
- [66:35]
B
No, I think it's good. I think the other thing we need to talk about, because you've mentioned it, is how me and you, as grandparents, how you Treat, you know, Whitney's parents or how they affect your kids, how I affect my grandkids, how we have to kind of not spoil, spoil how we have to do those things. I don't know if there's a right way on this deal. You know, I'll say this to you and you tell me what you think on this. So we're the grandparents that want to have everything our kids have at their house for the grandkids. I'm not talking about toys. I'm talking about stuff so my kids can pick up their kids, drop them in our house and not bring a thing, and we have everything taken care of. We want to be those grandparents. And don't get me wrong, we give them toys. We try not to give them too much sweets and all that stuff y' all kids tell us not to do. But what, what do you want those grandparents to do with your kids?
- [67:36]
A
Yeah.
- [67:37]
B
If they were, if you had the choice.
- [67:38]
A
Yeah. You know, it's funny because it's going to take me a second to say this and you're. Are you talking about, like, let me ask a clarifying question. So like at your house, the grandkids have, they probably have a swimsuit at your house.
- [68:01]
B
Sure, sure. We don't have a pool, but I'm sure they'll go running the sprinklers or they'll play in their shorts.
- [68:06]
A
Yeah. Or they have a couple extra pairs of clothes at your house that stay at your house.
- [68:09]
B
For sure.
- [68:11]
A
A bed.
- [68:11]
B
For sure.
- [68:12]
A
Yeah.
- [68:13]
B
They got a bed for their friend.
- [68:14]
A
Yeah.
- [68:14]
B
They got a crib for the baby. We got two sound machines. I don't know what sound machines do. I didn't have a sound machine. We turned on the radio when I was a kid. We have all that.
- [68:23]
A
Yeah. So this is interesting. Whitney's parents, we, we spend a lot of time, not a lot of time, we, we, we spend more time at Whitney's parents house than at my dad's house. Yeah, I, I think that's just, I
- [68:39]
B
think that's kind of normal. Right.
- [68:40]
A
You know, you spend more times at your wife family's house than the husband's family house. But Whitney's parents live in kind of a smaller house, three bedroom, one bath. And it's an older home. It's actually the home that Whitney came home from the hospital too. They've lived there for a very long time right outside of Nacogdoches, Texas. And they don't have the space to have the girls to each have a bed.
- [69:11]
B
Right.
- [69:12]
A
They don't, you know, Whitney and I sleep in a queen sized bed when we go there. But what I'll say is they do a tremendous job of, of making sure that the accommodations are as good as they can be with the space that they have.
- [69:26]
B
Yeah.
- [69:26]
A
And how that manifests itself for them is they have cots.
- [69:31]
B
Yeah.
- [69:31]
A
Which you know what's funny is I slept on cots when I visited my grandparents a lot.
- [69:36]
B
Right.
- [69:36]
A
The kids freaking love the cots.
- [69:38]
B
Yeah.
- [69:38]
A
You know, but I want to tell
- [69:39]
B
you how crazy it was at my parents house when I took my kids there.
- [69:42]
A
Yeah.
- [69:42]
B
My parents would get out of their king bed and go sleep in like a twin, a full bed and let my boys sleep in their bed. My boys. That's how they spoil their grandkids.
- [69:51]
A
Yeah.
- [69:52]
B
Wasn't toys, it was stuff like that. So go ahead. Sorry.
- [69:55]
A
No, I do want to say this though just because maybe if there are parents listening who are going to be grandparents soon or you know, again, it is kind of awkward just because, you know, my dad and stepmom listen to the podcast and Whitney's parents listen to the podcast. I don't mean this in any way that, that anything is wrong. But I. Here's what I'll say. I think when I do it it'll probably be very similar to the way you've done it because I think people underestimate the value of like what it's like to go visit somewhere where you have a bed to sleep in and you know where you're going to sleep. Growing up, one of my, one of my best friends to this day, you know, we don't talk a lot, but still very good friend of mine, guy named Philip, I'm sure he'll be on the show at some point. I spent a ton of time at Philip's grandparents house and I knew the bed I was going to sleep in every time I went there. And they had a room that had a light, it had maybe two or three twin beds in it. And I knew the bed I was going to sleep on when I went to Philip's grandparents.
- [71:08]
B
Well, it's funny you say that. So I've reconnected with one of my childhood friends that lived down the street from me and he's the pitching coach at Texas Tech.
- [71:18]
A
Yeah.
- [71:19]
B
He sent me a note this week and said name my parents, Roy and Jenny. He said Roy and Jenny encouraged me the whole time I ever stayed at your house to be do well in my life. Now this kid went on to play three, maybe six years with the Cincinnati Reds.
- [71:39]
A
Wow.
- [71:40]
B
Right and my parents encouraged him.
- [71:43]
A
Yeah.
- [71:43]
B
What does that mean when your parents do that? Right.
- [71:46]
A
Right. Yeah.
- [71:47]
B
Or if you do that.
- [71:48]
A
Yeah.
- [71:49]
B
And you're going to. I know you. You're going to see your kids, friends and you're going to encourage the heck out of them to grow in the Lord and be fruitful and multiply and do all the stuff they're going to do with their lives.
- [72:00]
A
Yeah. I think just around hosting in general, too. And I don't know who needs to hear this, but I, I think this is really important because one of the focuses that I've asked a lot of folks about is how do you create the house where the kids want to come?
- [72:19]
B
Yeah.
- [72:20]
A
How do you create an atmosphere and environment where your kids want to come home? Right. And I think space and accommodations are. And this is going to sound so silly, but, but snacks and it sounds so trivial, Brent. But my best friend in life is a guy named Robbie. I think, I think he listens. Talk to him as much as I can. His parents, if I called him right now, I have a place to stay.
- [72:50]
B
Yeah.
- [72:50]
A
And if I walk in their store, I know that if I, If I walk in their store, if I walk into their house where they, the, the, the pantry, I know exactly where the peanut butter and honey.
- [73:01]
B
I love it.
- [73:02]
A
Crackers are going to be. I love it exactly where the popcorn is. And I know that depending on the time of the year, they're either zebra cakes, Christmas trees, hearts around Valentine's Day, Little Debbie snacks. I love it. You know, I know where the shampoo is. I know where the towels are. And that Mr. Bobby and Ms. Lisa, they're. They, they are like an extension of my family. They're like my parents. But they had a house where in the back fridge, there's Cokes, Gatorades. The only thing we weren't allowed to drink was Miss Lisa's Mountain Dew. And you could have one as long as it wasn't the last one.
- [73:43]
B
And I've got to tell you a caffeine story before we finish today, so just remember.
- [73:47]
A
But you know, I think if you. This is not everybody's natural strength.
- [73:55]
B
Yeah.
- [73:56]
A
But when you think about the comfort, when you think about what makes an environment welcoming to your kids, to your grandkids, and to other kids, it's not that complicated.
- [74:07]
B
Because as believers, what do you want to do? You want to influence those kids for Christ. You want to show them the love of Christ. That doesn't mean you have to have Little Debbies every time.
- [74:17]
A
Right.
- [74:17]
B
But how do you get them there. So they want to be around you and hear what you have to say. And hear what you have to say about God. Because that's what you want, right?
- [74:26]
A
Yeah.
- [74:26]
B
And we've got to show them the love that God shows us.
- [74:29]
A
Yeah. Well. And you know, honestly, Brent, it's. It's the action that leads to the conversation.
- [74:36]
B
Yep.
- [74:37]
A
Because you know, the kids are going to say, dude, your parents are so cool. Why, why is it like this here?
- [74:45]
B
Yeah.
- [74:45]
A
And what you hope your kids would say is because, hey, it's because this is, you know, you hope your kids would say something like, it's. This is because this is the way we feel like God has called us to live.
- [74:54]
B
Right.
- [74:55]
A
You know, we want our home to be welcoming to everybody.
- [74:58]
B
Exactly.
- [74:58]
A
This is the way God intended it. You know, but just to kind of close that thought, you know, here's the word of encouragement is when people come stay with you when, when you're trying to set up a house so it's inviting to your grandkids, put the breakable stuff away. Right?
- [75:20]
B
Yeah. And it's still stuff.
- [75:24]
A
It's. It's just stuff. Right. But understand that the floor my grandparents had for a long time, almost white carpet.
- [75:34]
B
Oh, gosh.
- [75:34]
A
Right. You had to take your shoes off before you went outside the house. And everything in my grandparents house had a place and it was very structured and it was no nonsense, no horseplay. And look, if you want people to come into your house, you have to be willing to open your house up and say, hey, if it's in the fridge, it's your yours. If it's in the pantry, it's yours. If you're thirsty, let me know and be proactive with it.
- [75:55]
B
Yeah.
- [75:55]
A
Are you hungry? Because let me tell you something. When kids get to be teenagers, if they walk in your house and you're like, hey, you kid's hungry, the answer nine times out of 10 is going to be, yep. What do you have to eat?
- [76:07]
B
That's right.
- [76:07]
A
Right. Sorry. I'm. I'm maybe preaching to the choir here, but I just got excited talking about that because I kind of had a revelation of like. Like, yeah, you're in control of those things, Brent.
- [76:20]
B
That's right.
- [76:21]
A
Like that is. There's no gray area there.
- [76:25]
B
Like, and to be honest with you, we. We may have made some mistakes with our kids doing that early on.
- [76:32]
A
Yeah.
- [76:33]
B
Meaning, yeah, we had friends come stay with them. But. But when you see your kids starting to go somewhere else all the time.
- [76:40]
A
Yeah.
- [76:41]
B
Then you have to reevaluate and go, did. Am I doing what I should do? And I don't. You know, because I'll say this, Caleb, when he played football in high school, they had one house they went to every Friday night because there was only nine seniors, and they went to the same house every Friday night. And don't worry, it was a blessing because I knew the faith going on at that house, and it was good. But I keep thinking in my mind, why is it not my house? And I didn't get out of shape with it because they would come to our house a lot, too. But. But you think about it, right? I mean, you want your house to be that. It can't always be your house that way, but you want it to be that way when it's time.
- [77:19]
A
Well, you can only control what you can control, you know? Yep. And maybe it's because at their house, they have a.
- [77:27]
B
A pool table.
- [77:28]
A
A pool table. Or the back porch or maybe the basketball goal.
- [77:32]
B
And a swimming pool.
- [77:33]
A
A swimming pool, whatever. And you can't control those things if. Unless money is just an unlimited resource.
- [77:38]
B
But it's not.
- [77:39]
A
It's not. It's not. But no, I think. Here's the deal. This is. Dude, I'm getting kind of excited talking about this, because Whitney, when you listen to this, because she listens and critiques. She's the first one that listens and critiques these.
- [77:52]
B
She's gonna be on me.
- [77:53]
A
Here's the deal, Whitney. We got to get more snacks. We got to get more drinks in the refrigerator in the garage. And it's something that's totally in our control. But side note to my wife there. Yeah, we gotta.
- [78:05]
B
We have the fridge in the. In the utility room. The extra fridge with the Dr. Pepp. The water bottles.
- [78:10]
A
I'm glad we talked about that, man. That's. That's an actionable thing that I think we can do to be just better hosts to people in general.
- [78:18]
B
So something about that hospitality gene, man. My wife's got it a little bit more than I do.
- [78:21]
A
I don't have it.
- [78:22]
B
Well, you probably do. Just don't use it as much.
- [78:25]
A
I. I think I do have the hospitality gene because I think people would say when they come over, I go. I go. I go bananas to make sure that there's a lot of food and comfortability and stuff. The problem is, is I'm just too grouchy. I don't ever invite people over. That's my issue.
- [78:40]
B
Yeah. Because it's funny now that we're saying this, so my son's got A wedding today. My youngest son's got a wedding he's going to, and he's got some friends coming to town, and their hotel's not ready for them to check in the hotel. And he's like, dad, can they come change it at your house? I'm like, why do you have to ask? Just come.
- [78:56]
A
Yeah.
- [78:56]
B
That's dumb. Don't ask. Just be there.
- [78:58]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [78:59]
B
Just make sure we have clothes on and stuff.
- [79:02]
A
Right.
- [79:02]
B
You know, that kind of stuff.
- [79:03]
A
Yeah.
- [79:09]
B
So back to your question for you about this grandparent thing.
- [79:12]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [79:14]
B
So do you see, because your kids are smaller. My kids. My grandkids, are a little bit smaller than your girls. But so how do us, as grandparents help raise your girls and not tick you off? And I'm not talking about just spoiling. I'm not. I'm talking about how do you do it in a way, when it comes to discipline and sleep and maybe eating and all that? All that. Tell me how. How you look at it.
- [79:42]
A
No, it's good. Yeah. There's. So there's a couple things I think. Just. Okay. I'm big on communication. I don't. I'm good at communication. I lean into conflict, which is, I think, not normal. But here's why we get long. Yeah. But here's what I would say. Communicate. Just communicate. And don't ask. Here's a big one, man. Don't ask what you should do if you're not gonna do what the kids say.
- [80:17]
B
Yeah.
- [80:18]
A
Don't say, what can we get the kids for Christmas if you're not going to listen?
- [80:23]
B
Sure.
- [80:23]
A
And let me tell you why. Because grandparents may not realize this. There are gifts that we don't want to give our kids.
- [80:30]
B
Sure.
- [80:32]
A
But we would love if grandparents gave them to our kids.
- [80:35]
B
Yeah.
- [80:36]
A
And. And vice versa. There are gifts that we want to give to our kids that we don't want to come from. Grandparents. And what's funny about that is there's a little bit of mischief there.
- [80:50]
B
Okay.
- [80:51]
A
Like, there are presents that we would not want to give our kids. Meaning. Maybe they're loud, maybe they're silly. Maybe they're. Maybe we've told the girls at some point throughout the year, I'm not going to buy you the farting yoga goat, believe it or not, which is a toy.
- [81:09]
B
Is it really?
- [81:10]
A
It is. It's called the farting Yoga goat.
- [81:14]
B
Never knew.
- [81:14]
A
But here's the thing. I've told Cali I'm not gonna buy her the farting yoga goat 10 times while we were in Target. But you know what if grandma wants to get her the farting yoga goat for Christmas? I'm okay with that. Yeah.
- [81:27]
B
I like it. Right.
- [81:28]
A
And that just takes communication.
- [81:30]
B
Yep.
- [81:30]
A
Right. Another thing is especially about asking, like, what can we do? Is from a grandparents standpoint, just be as flexible as you possibly can with life.
- [81:45]
B
Yeah.
- [81:46]
A
Meaning you are much more likely to come and stay with us if you understand that when you're here, you're folded into the activities of the family.
- [81:57]
B
Sure.
- [81:58]
A
We can't make it a big deal that grandma and grandpa are here because life has to go on. And if it's a big deal when grandma and grandpa come, it. It's very disruptive. And grandparents don't want that, Brent. I mean, you think about it, you want to go and be a part of their life, you don't want to be disruptive. And. And if. If grandparents can set their mind in that way that says, hey, we're gonna come. We. You. You don't need to do anything special for us. Whatever you have going on, we'll go and do it with you. And here's a big one. And while we're there, if you need us to watch the kids so that you and mom can go do something, we'd love to do that.
- [82:41]
B
Yeah.
- [82:42]
A
You don't have to stay here.
- [82:43]
B
Right.
- [82:44]
A
Leave the kids with us.
- [82:45]
B
Yeah.
- [82:45]
A
Because mom and dad, like, dude, we need that time.
- [82:49]
B
That's right.
- [82:50]
A
And what's funny is the phase that Whitney and I are in right now when, when. When Whitney's parents come and stay with us, we don't normally go on date night and watch a movie. No. We normally go clothing shopping without the girls.
- [83:04]
B
Yep.
- [83:04]
A
We go furniture shopping. We go to an appointment or we go to the bank.
- [83:10]
B
Yeah.
- [83:10]
A
We go do the stuff that's a real big pain to do with kids.
- [83:13]
B
That's right.
- [83:14]
A
You know, so that's a big one.
- [83:16]
B
But that's good advice for grandparents, I mean, because we try to do some of the stuff you're talking about. I mean, you know, we try to be available. I remember when it snowed a few weeks ago, it was like, we have a generator. So we're like, Like, y' all just come stay with us.
- [83:27]
A
Yeah.
- [83:28]
B
Just in case your lights go out. It's fine.
- [83:29]
A
Yeah.
- [83:29]
B
What do you want? We'll have food. We'll. I mean, just. We'll be here.
- [83:32]
A
Yeah.
- [83:33]
B
And so we try to do that. I mean, it's not perfect, you know, because we all have our own personalities and we're sinners and so we screw Stuff up. But I can see you saying that now. And I think back to my parents and my in laws and how it did or didn't work, where they, you know, we had to make sure we took care of them instead of the activities we were supposed to be doing.
- [83:51]
A
Yeah.
- [83:51]
B
So I get it.
- [83:52]
A
And the other thing is, I think if you can create a space as a grandparent where. And here's a great way to do it. If there's this expectation that when people are in your house, they're always with you in the living room, that's not a cool. That's. That's not a cool space. Right.
- [84:18]
B
Yeah.
- [84:20]
A
A lot of times respite is getting some alone time, even when you're together. And that can create. That creates the desire to spend more time together. Right. Which means, like when Whitney and I go visit Gigi and Pops with the girls, it's kind of like, hey, Gigi and pops, we're gonna go take a nap.
- [84:41]
B
Yeah.
- [84:42]
A
Like, we're gonna go to sleep for like three hours knowing that the kids are out here with you guys and they're safe.
- [84:49]
B
Yeah.
- [84:50]
A
And we're not doing that because we want to get away from you.
- [84:52]
B
Right.
- [84:53]
A
We're doing that because we're tired.
- [84:55]
B
Exactly.
- [84:56]
A
You know?
- [84:56]
B
Yeah. I get it.
- [84:57]
A
Right.
- [84:58]
B
Yeah.
- [85:00]
A
And just being able to, you know, honestly, just kind of think about it from the standpoint of like, if. If the grandparents lived here, if you. If you. If we lived here, what would our lives look like? And if you can just make it more natural so it's not a production, it will happen more often.
- [85:19]
B
So if you were a grandparent, if Lee and Whitney were grandparents today.
- [85:25]
A
Yeah.
- [85:26]
B
What would you do different than what your parents or your in laws do or mine do or what I do different? What would you do different?
- [85:37]
A
Yeah.
- [85:37]
B
And what would your grandparent name be first? Well, that's. That's the. That's always.
- [85:41]
A
Oh, we have that figured out.
- [85:42]
B
Okay, tell me.
- [85:43]
A
G Dub and P Dub.
- [85:44]
B
G Dub and P Dub.
- [85:46]
A
Yeah.
- [85:48]
B
Okay.
- [85:50]
A
Whitney has been trying to give the nickname Dub to stick for me for a long time. Last name is Wallace. I get it. And so it just doesn't stick because my name is Lee. Yeah. L, E, E Dub, D U, B. It's three synonyms. It's not easier to say Dub than Lee. You know, this nickname has just never stuck. And Whitney was like, well, look, when we're grandparents, we can make it stick. We'll just. It'll just be G Dub and P Dub, and I'll be Pdub and she'll be GW Yeah. So she has it picked out. That's it.
- [86:22]
B
Okay.
- [86:24]
A
What would we do differently? All right, here's what. Here's what I'm gonna say. And, you know, Gigi and Pops, if you're listening, dad, Janet, if you're listening, you know, this is not.
- [86:42]
B
Sound like throwing you under the bus.
- [86:43]
A
I know that's what you're doing right now, but I'm gonna answer it because I have a great relationship with all of those folks, and I. I don't think anybody will get offended. This is not a direct reflection of what Gigi and Pops do or what my dad and Janet do.
- [87:01]
B
It's.
- [87:01]
A
It's not at all. But here's my observation, and this probably has more to do with what I've noticed about my grandparents and Whitney's grandparents. Okay. One of the things that Whitney and I really want to be able to do is go to our kids, wherever they are. My mom was really guilty about wanting everyone to come to her, and she got really frustrated when people couldn't make time to come to her. One of Whitney and I's biggest goals in retirement is to be as mobile as we can right at the drop of a hat. That. That is a. That is a goal for us. Now. We want to have a home that is sized appropriately so that people can come stay with us, and it's comfortable. But what's more important to us is that you don't have to come here for Christmas. If you've got space, we'll come stay with you. And if you don't have space, we'll get a hotel or an Airbnb, and we'll come. We'll come to you. We don't want to disrupt your life, but we want to spend time with you. So that's one thing that Whitney and I want to do. Another thing is Whitney and I, financially have decided that we want to pay for a family vacation for our kids and grandkids every year. It's something that we're financially planning for today. So when our girls get married and have kids, we want to be able to pay all expenses for the girls and their husbands and their kids to go to Hawaii for a week.
- [88:42]
B
Week.
- [88:42]
A
And it might cost $30,000, but that is. That is what we want to be able to do.
- [88:51]
B
I'm going to tell you. So we started doing that maybe two years ago. You're going to laugh at this. When. When our last parent died, we said, we really don't have anything holding us here on Say Thanksgiving.
- [89:10]
A
Yeah.
- [89:11]
B
So we said, let's take all of them. Now, granted, it's just my two boys, one daughter in law and two babies.
- [89:17]
A
Yeah.
- [89:18]
B
To Seaside, Florida. Or watercolor Florida. Let's rent a house.
- [89:22]
A
Yeah.
- [89:23]
B
Let's get Greenberg turkey shipped to us.
- [89:25]
A
Yeah.
- [89:26]
B
And let's stay there for a week.
- [89:27]
A
Yeah.
- [89:28]
B
It was so fun.
- [89:30]
A
Was it? Yeah.
- [89:31]
B
Now, now granted, at the end, you're starting to get on each other's nerves a little bit. I get it. Your family and we're all different.
- [89:37]
A
Different. Yeah.
- [89:38]
B
But. But yeah, it's fun and we would do it. We've done it a couple times now. This year we went to Broken Bow. It probably wasn't as good in Broken Boat because there wasn't as much to do for kids.
- [89:50]
A
Yeah.
- [89:51]
B
Even though I thought I had playgrounds and everything set up, I think the, the Seaside or the Florida or maybe even Colorado would probably be the better play. But yeah, it's a blast.
- [90:01]
A
Here's the beautiful part about that. Whitney and I have talked about this.
- [90:04]
B
This.
- [90:04]
A
It's. When you do that, it's neutral ground.
- [90:09]
B
Yeah.
- [90:10]
A
Right. When you're in an Airbnb and it's your kids or your grandparents or your parents, you're not rifling through someone else's pantry. Yep. Or pots and pans. It's not awkward for somebody to take the initiative to get up and get in the kitchen and start cooking a meal or making a sandwich. Because it's nobody's kitchen.
- [90:32]
B
Right.
- [90:32]
A
It's neutral ground.
- [90:33]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [90:35]
A
And I. That is a goal of Whitney and I as grandparents, is we want to be able to do that for our kids.
- [90:40]
B
It's pretty fun.
- [90:41]
A
Yeah.
- [90:41]
B
And to your point too, we'd say, hey, we got the kids. Well, my two boys and my daughter in law, why don't y' all go out to eat?
- [90:49]
A
Yeah.
- [90:50]
B
Or couple, whatever. Why don't you go to a bar? Whatever you want to do.
- [90:53]
A
Yeah.
- [90:53]
B
We got the kids. Y' all take off.
- [90:55]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [90:56]
B
And that's folks on.
- [90:56]
A
Yeah. And you know, the other thing I would say is Gray, which I think was the second or third guy that came on the podcast, he said something that he wanted to do differently than his parents did. And he said, I never wanted my kids to feel like they were a burden. And I think this is something that grandparents unintentionally do. Right. Unintentionally. Because I, I think most grandparents would be devastated if they, if they realized this. But.
- [91:33]
B
But you have to have some self awareness too.
- [91:35]
A
Right.
- [91:37]
B
And What I'm. And a lot of us don't at times, but you have to have enough self awareness. Go, I'm rubbing somebody.
- [91:44]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just don't, you know, I think a big part of it is don't act. Inconvenience.
- [91:56]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [91:57]
A
You know, right. When, when we ask, you know, when we ask you to come stay or when we ask you to come help, if we feel like it's a burden or if we feel like it's an inconvenience, it makes us not want to ask more. And it has nothing to do with you. Yeah. It has nothing to do with the fact that we don't want you here. We don't like you. It's that we don't want to burden you. We don't want to. Inconvenience.
- [92:24]
B
Right.
- [92:25]
A
And so when we ask if it's, if it is an inconvenience, we don't want to do that to you. Right. And see, I think that's where the family dynamic of grandparents can get really twisted up. If you guys aren't communicating right, you, you've got to just have open dialogue. And when it doesn't work, work, you'd be better off saying, hey, we can't come that weekend.
- [92:49]
B
Right.
- [92:49]
A
Because we've committed to do this thing or that thing. Is there another weekend we can come? And I know you need us this weekend. That's why you asked. But we can't do it. But, but can we make it up to you?
- [93:01]
B
Right, right.
- [93:01]
A
You know, that's good. Rather than let me rearrange a bunch of stuff and this is your, you know, this is, is you're putting me out, but we'll come and, you know, don't do that, you know, So I don't know. That's just kind of my perspective.
- [93:15]
B
I think it's good. And I think that's what we think of. I try to. I mean, as, as grandparents, we think about that all the time. How do we make it easier on our kids?
- [93:23]
A
Yeah. You know, hey, and the other thing that you mentioned too is like, how can grandparents help their parents? Parent.
- [93:31]
B
Yeah.
- [93:32]
A
Talk about it.
- [93:33]
B
Yeah.
- [93:35]
A
Like, it doesn't have to be awkward if you don't make it awkward.
- [93:39]
B
Right.
- [93:40]
A
Like, you know, just ask for permission. Say, hey, how would you like for us to be involved from a disciplinary standpoint? You know, when they're here, do you want us to wait and tell you about it when they get home? Do you want us to go ahead and handle it? How would you like for Us to handle it. How are you guys handling it at home? Is it time out? Is it. You know, it's probably not a good idea for grandparents and corporal punishment, but, like, you know, how do you want that to be? Just talk about it.
- [94:15]
B
Yeah, we try. We try to do that. It's good. That's good therapy for me. We try to, but it's. Yeah, we probably don't do it enough.
- [94:21]
A
Yeah, because, you know, young parents, they just need help. They need so much help.
- [94:27]
B
Help. Yeah.
- [94:27]
A
And if they know that the grandparents are helping and they're asking how they can help, you're going to get feedback.
- [94:35]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [94:35]
A
And then as a grandparent, it's your responsibility. And look, my grandfather did this terribly. My grandfather was notorious for asking for feedback and then doing whatever the heck he wanted to do.
- [94:49]
B
Anyways, I told somebody the other day I probably could have got turned into some child organization because I was at the park with my grandson and we're potty training at the moment, and he had a pull up on because I didn't want him to get all hit. There was dew on the slides. Anyway, long story short, I called Gigi and there was poop everywhere.
- [95:07]
A
Yeah.
- [95:07]
B
And I had to pull his pants down and I didn't have any wipes. They were in the truck, and it's 100 yards away. And. And so I'm sure people were like, what is wrong with that guy? You know, he's trying to clean his grandson up. He doesn't know what to do.
- [95:19]
A
Yeah.
- [95:19]
B
And so I was like, man, I sure could have got in trouble.
- [95:22]
A
That's hilarious. All right, well, we're coming up on time here. You know, you answered a lot of these, but I want to maybe close with just two or three things here. The. The first one is just to keep on point with the podcast is. Okay, let me. Yeah, let me. I want to ask you these two. What do you wish? Okay, you answer whichever one. I'm gonna ask it two ways. What do you wish that you had done more of? What do you wish that you had done less of? Okay. Or what? The same question, but just a different frame. What mattered more than you thought it did and what mattered way less than you thought it did?
- [96:16]
B
Yeah, obviously, you know, the. The pad answer there for boys is going to be sports, right?
- [96:22]
A
Yeah.
- [96:23]
B
I mean, you know, I come to the conclusion now that you see these parents doing these crazy things. We did some of it too. You know, our kids got play select this, select that. And I'll be honest with you. That's. I wish I'd have done less, you know, I wish I could have been honest with my younger son and said, let's don't drive to Dallas every weekend to play a doubleheader, you know, because you're probably not going to the major leagues, even though I know you want to play select ball like your brother. I probably wasn't as honest with my younger son as much. And so sports, I think. I think it could be any. It doesn't have to be sports. It could be music. It could be whatever. It could be a lot of different things. I think those are great things in and of themselves for discipline and teamwork and sharing your faith. A lot of things are good about that, but it's not. But 99.999% of us, we're not going to NBA or the major leagues. And so what. What matters there? And there are some good things to learn, but what matters there is the relationships. And so I think I wish I'd have done more with the relationships and less with. And I didn't make my kids play, but they asked, I let them do it. I didn't say no much. Now, we had one rule. They couldn't play more than one sport at a time.
- [97:41]
A
Yeah,
- [97:43]
B
but. But I think that's. Some things I regret a little bit is how much of that did. And I'll be honest with you, too. And you know, one of the things I do regret is because of way things fell out with my kids, my older son got to do a lot more mission work with me because I did some mission stuff up in New York City with some West African groups got to do. And I did some mission work down in Mexico, too, but he didn't get to go with him. But. But he got to see some of that, see my life. My older son got to see that more. My younger son didn't. Yeah, I regret that, Lee. And I don't regret it that my older son got more. I wish my younger son would have got the same experience now. He got a different experience, and he got an experience because my older son had gone to college. My younger son got an experience of me mentoring two young men here in town.
- [98:34]
A
Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.
- [98:36]
B
And so that wasn't perfect either. I have one that's one of the mentor boys, or our mentees is in the penitentiary, which, you know, some things work. Something. But he still calls me from the penitentiary. Called me last week.
- [98:46]
A
Did he really?
- [98:46]
B
Yeah, his name is jaden and he's 19. But so my Younger son got to see that. He got to see the interaction there. And I think that was good for him and his faith and seeing what's more important. It's not always about having money or anything like that. And so. But there's some things I regret, and some of those are just faith steps. You know, it may not because I think in the big scheme of life, it's about our faith and not about this sport or that sport of God's going to put you in the right place if you need to be there, and God's going to use you. You're going to be the Esther to somebody.
- [99:20]
A
Right.
- [99:20]
B
And you're going to have your chance at whatever that looks like for you and your company or me and my company. We have to be those voices of reason and Esther's in those places and our kids do too. Right. And so I can look at, you know, I can look at my two kids and I know we're not supposed to be proud in our own heart, but I can be proud of them. And I can see my. My oldest son who's an assistant principal at a school here in Tyler, and the parents come up to me and go, man, he really loves the kids.
- [99:47]
A
Yeah.
- [99:48]
B
I can see my younger son's co workers go, man, he taught me off a ledge today.
- [99:54]
A
Yeah.
- [99:54]
B
And so you can see things like that in their lives and you can see fruit, but there's certain little steps along the way. I wish I'd have been more consistent with those quiet times. I wish I'd have been more consistent with my prayer life so they could have seen me. I'll give you. For instance, I was at a funeral of a good friend of mine that was a West Point grad that just was a kind of a hero of mine and his son. And my son played high school football together. And so, you know, one of the things his grandkids said, we used to see him on the porch, church every morning, reading his Bible. Doesn't remember if we were staying with him or he was staying with us. We'd see him every morning. And I don't know if my kids saw me reading the Bible. Now, I read the Bible a lot. Yeah. But usually I did it before they got up and that kind of stuff. So what kind of legacy do I leave in their life? And I don't know if I've always done the right. I mean, I'm not doing bad things, but I'm not know if. I don't know if I showed them the way enough.
- [100:49]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [100:51]
B
Does that make sense?
- [100:51]
A
Yeah. No, it does. It does.
- [100:55]
B
Huh. And how are you going to do it? And I'm not this. I don't want you to answer that. But that's what I keep asking myself. Now I've got grandkids.
- [101:03]
A
Yeah.
- [101:03]
B
How's my grandkids going to see me reading the Bible? How are they going to see me figuring out a problem the right way that God would want me to do it? Yeah.
- [101:12]
A
Yeah.
- [101:13]
B
And so that's good.
- [101:17]
A
All right, well, is there anything that we were supposed to talk about that we didn't?
- [101:23]
B
I'll tell you one funny caffeine story.
- [101:25]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [101:26]
B
Caffeine story. So we're living in Winnsboro, Texas. My son's in the third grade. His teacher's miss her locker. Saw her at a basketball game about three weeks ago. And here in Tyler, Texas, we relive the story. I get a call from Gigi. Hey, Caleb, the. My free spirited kid is having problems in the third grade today. Like he didn't have problems. The kids a genius. He's not thinking this my head. He's really not Jesus. But I'm thinking he didn't get in trouble at school. What's going on? And I knew my mother in law was staying with us that week.
- [101:54]
A
Oh God.
- [101:56]
B
And I'm like, something's just not right. And Gigi's like, brent, you got to get up to school. So I'm in clinic, I go to school. It's two or three miles from my office. So I go down there, I'm like, what's going on, Caleb? I'm fine. I'm fine. Ms. Ford goes, what's on? Going, going on with him. And my mother in law had given him two cups of coffee before school. Two cups. Now it's probably mostly sugar and milk.
- [102:20]
A
Yeah.
- [102:21]
B
But he drank two cups of coffee because he wanted to be like his grandmother.
- [102:24]
A
Yeah.
- [102:24]
B
And he goes off the rails that day in school.
- [102:27]
A
Oh my God.
- [102:27]
B
Never heard that again.
- [102:29]
A
That is hilarious.
- [102:31]
B
Third grade, man.
- [102:32]
A
He was, he was amped up.
- [102:35]
B
He was, he was.
- [102:36]
A
He was going two cups of coffee. That's like 160 milligrams of caffeine. That'll do it.
- [102:41]
B
He was the kid. I'll tell you a funny story about him. You don't have to put this on the video. But he was the kid that they had math competitions and he was a math dude. He didn't really want to read a book, but he was a math dude.
- [102:52]
A
Yeah.
- [102:53]
B
And so they won a couple pizza parties because their Their. Their class outperformed everybody else. He has them huddled up, and the same teacher, Ms. Herlocker, walks in the room. She goes, what are y' all doing? And Caleb's got the kids huddled up saying, hey, we're gonna win this every time because I want that pizza. And he had the whole group huddled up preaching to him like a coach that if they didn't do their work, they won't get the pizza, and they better get their work done or else. Because he wanted that stinking pizza.
- [103:24]
A
That was. That was Caleb.
- [103:25]
B
Yes.
- [103:26]
A
Oh, yeah. I have seen that boy put some food down.
- [103:30]
B
Yeah, he won. He won the lineman challenge that one time. I don't remember how many pieces. Like, 48 pieces of pizza he had to. You count it by how many crust you have left.
- [103:41]
A
Really?
- [103:41]
B
He had 48 crust or gosh, 40.
- [103:44]
A
That's like five pizzas needed.
- [103:46]
B
All the same flavors, all like a buffalo or something like that. Just makes me sick.
- [103:51]
A
Yeah. All right, well, Brent, thank you so much for being here. Here, I'll sign off real quick. So, hey, thanks for listening to the to dad from dad podcast. If you're still here. Thanks for sticking in to the end. Hey, just remember, the biggest thing you could do to help us at this point is just share this with somebody that you think might benefit from it. Share it with your friends, share it with your families, share it with your grandparents, share it with your parents, Share with your in laws. Just growing the audience base and reaching as many people as we can, trying to get the good message out there, the good content that we're talking about. Like, follow, subscribe on whatever medium you're on, and we'll see you guys next time. Brent, once again, thanks for being here, man.
- [104:37]
B
My pleasure.
- [104:37]
A
See ya.