Our Food is Our Fight | TMT 168

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Our Food is Our Fight" | Too Many Tabs with Pearlmania500 (TMT 168, March 15, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the husband and wife duo behind "Too Many Tabs" (Pearlmania500 & Mrs. Pearlmania) dive deep into the intertwined history of gardening, politics, and war. What begins as an episode about the joys and history of gardening quickly spirals into a wide-ranging exploration of how gardens have been deeply political across eras—fueling revolutions, symbolizing power, and even absorbing the fallout of war economies. As always, the show is equal parts comedic banter, lived anecdotes, and surprisingly thorough research, delivered in the show’s characteristically irreverent tone.

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Main Topics & Discussion Points

1. Gardens: More Than Just Plants (02:09–03:08)

• The Political Nature of Gardening
  • Mrs. P sets the stage: Although she intended to discuss the history of gardening, her research led her to realize just how political gardens are.
  • Key Insight: “Gardens can even cause or end or support wars.” – Mrs. Pearlmania (03:00)

2. Tulip Mania: Excess, Power, and Revolt in the Ottoman Empire (03:18–18:30)

• The Sultan’s Obsession
  • Sultan Ahmet III (1703–1730) was obsessed with tulips, hosting opulent annual festivals.
  • Extravagance included Dutch-imported tulips, hand-threaded blooms to keep them closed, mirrors to augment the effect, candles lit on tortoises' backs, songbirds in gilded cages, and strict guest dress codes.
  • Memorable Quote: “He pays hundreds of workers to go out into his tulip field… and by hand, sew the tulips closed lightly with fine threads.” – Mrs. P (08:31)
  • Rubicon moment: All this wasteful luxury while losing wars and imposing high taxes triggered the Patrona Halil revolt and his removal.
  • “That’s why I’m saying gardens are political.” – Mrs. P (18:26)

3. Gardening through the Ages: From Survival to Status (23:05–33:45)

• Ancient Forest Gardens
  • Carried over by indigenous cultures, early gardening mirrored nature’s patterns.
• Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Greece
  • Egyptians used gardens for shade and religious symbology.
  • Hanging Gardens of Babylon: early ornamental landscaping.
  • Persian gardens were climate responses—walled, water-rich sanctuaries.
  • Alexander the Great spread the love of gardens across his empire.
  • Greek gardens were “pot heavy"—portable, practical, with social functions (philosophical discussions, gossip).
  • Romans leveled up with hedges, flower beds, statues, and the earliest public parks ("evergetism").
  • “It was the ancient practice of high-status and wealthy individuals…distributing part of their wealth to the community.” – Mrs. P (44:15)
  • Mrs. P: “Everything is politics.” (120:08)

4. Islamic Gardens & Design Innovations (50:48–56:07)

• Symbolism and Sensory Experience
  • Gardens reflected Quranic paradise: four rivers (water, milk, wine, honey).
  • The "Chaharbakh" layout (four-part garden) with a cross-pattern and central reflecting pool.
  • Islamic gardens prioritized scent (jasmine, roses for romance; camphor, sandalwood for health), and contemplation over movement.
  • Key Quote: “The moving waterways direct your eye to the still water at the center...it’s all about stillness.” – Mrs. P (52:16)

5. European Garden Revolutions: From Renaissance to the Lawn (59:46–85:01)

• Renaissance Ornamentalism
  • Italian, French, and English gardens adopted topiaries, fountains, and labyrinths (hedge mazes).
• Cottage Gardens and the Rise of the Lawn
  • Cottage gardens (with beehives, livestock, mingled flowers/herbs/vegetables) gave way to lawns—a symbol of wealth and both environmental and social waste.
  • Quote: “Lawns…were not an aesthetic choice, but an extreme symbol of wealth and social standing.” – Mrs. P (84:20)
  • Lawns originated as a flex by European aristocracy. Their spread to America linked to post-Revolutionary envy and mimicry of European tastes (White House lawns, etc.).
  • Lawns require enormous resources and offer "no refuge for the local wildlife,” yet now cover the equivalent land area of Colorado in the US (93:04).

6. Wars, Gardens, and Food as Ammunition (96:25–119:58)

• War/Victory Gardens
  • WWI: US gov’t pushed "war gardens" to combat food shortages, with 5 million planted.
  • Propaganda: “Food will win the war.” – President Woodrow Wilson (98:32)
  • Children mobilized as “soldiers of the soil” (102:32).
  • WWII: Rebranded “Victory Gardens.” Slogans like “sow the seeds of victory,” “our food is fighting,” and “every garden a munition plant.”
  • Eleanor Roosevelt planted a Victory Garden at the White House, sparking backlash from “Big Ag”—the same dynamic would reappear with Michelle Obama.
  • Quote: “Only 20% of Americans mentioned patriotism. 80% were in it for the fresh food.” – Mrs. P (109:40)
  • City and rural versions flourished, with competitions (blue ribbons, etc.) for best produce—even as racism persisted (segregated awards).

7. Tulips: Trade, Speculation, and Cultural Loops (66:49–78:52)

• Tulip’s Real Origin
  • Native to Kazakhstan, imported to Turkey by the Ottomans, and later mass-farmed by the Dutch.
  • Dutch “Tulip Mania” (1634–1637): The first major speculative bubble, as bulbs fetched prices equivalent to 18 years’ wages. The crash became a cautionary tale still cited in economics.
  • Notable Quote: “Everything you hate about the world is the fault of the Dutch. They invented stock trading.” – Pearlmania500 (70:41)

8. Modern Connections and Parallels

• Lawns' Impact
  • Lawns as a toxic environmental legacy—mass water use, no benefit to wildlife.
  • Regulatory and chemical (e.g., Roundup) controversies resurface.
  • Ongoing connection between food, politics, and propaganda in crisis.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Tulip Obsession & Sultans

• “He pays hundreds of workers to go out into his tulip field… and by hand, sew the tulips closed lightly with fine threads.” – Mrs. P (08:31)

On Lawns’ Wastefulness

• “Lawns…were not an aesthetic choice, but an extreme symbol of wealth and social standing.” – Mrs. P (84:20)
• “Having that just be grass…is the equivalent of lighting a cigar with a hundred dollar bill.” – Pearlmania500 (84:43)

Victory Gardens as Wartime Propaganda

• “Food will win the war.” – President Woodrow Wilson (98:32)
• “‘Soldiers of the soil’ — that’s a pretty good one.” – Pearlmania500 (102:57)
• “Our food is fighting.” – WWII Slogan (107:05)
• “Every garden, a munition plant.” – WWII Slogan (106:21)

On the Inevitable Politicization

• “Everything is politics. Always is. And that’s the part that sucks.” – Pearlmania500 (120:05)

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Key Timestamps for Segments

• 02:09: Shift from “just gardening” to the political nature of gardens
• 03:18–18:30: Tulip fests of the Ottoman Empire; downfall of Sultan Ahmet III
• 23:05–33:45: Ancient gardening traditions (Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome)
• 50:48: Introduction of Islamic gardens and sensory design
• 59:46: Renaissance gardens & rise of the lawn
• 84:20: The symbolic meaning and wastefulness of lawns
• 96:25–119:58: War, propaganda, and the American home front’s Victory Gardens

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

This episode is a lively, critical, and deeply informative exploration of how what seems like a gentle hobby—gardening—is actually loaded with meaning, politics, and consequences. From tulip-fueled coups to Instagrammed petunia beds, the hosts expose how the “fight” for our food is perennial.

Parting Thought:

“Sow the seeds of victory.” – (Repeated as powerful closing encouragement for personal and collective resilience)

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For More Gardening (and Righteous Rants):

• Follow Mrs. P on Instagram @MrsPearlMania500 for practical home gardening tips (120:47)
• Join the Patreon for comments/read-alouds and after-shows

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Summary prepared by: ChatGPT Podcast Specialist, maintaining the original tone and dialogue wherever possible.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

two juicy beef patties and three slices of melted cheese topped with tangy Big Arch sauce. The Big Arch is what happens when you start making a McDonald's burger and never stop. The Big Arch, the most McDonald's McDonald's burger yet for limited time. Welcome to Too Many Tabs, a podcast where a husband and wife duo sit next to each other at a table. We have a delightful time every single week, and I hope you're having a delightful time out there as well. I hope you're one with Christ and you're ready to have a good time. Going down a rabbit hole that's been dug in this garden by Mrs. Pearl Mania. How are you today, Mrs. P. This

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energy is deeply concerning.

[B]

It's the right energy for the time.

[A]

Feel odd?

[B]

It shouldn't.

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And I'm nervous now.

[B]

No, you shouldn't be. And to all the listeners out there, I want you to reach out towards your cell phone as you watch us in the break room or at your cubicle, reach out to your cell phone and say to yourself right now, I am good, I am pure, and I am worth it. Okay? It's a hard thing to remember sometimes. And maybe you're listening to us on an airpod. Maybe you're folding laundry. Maybe you're just walking down the street a little bit and just trying to listen. You go, who is this man talking? It's me. It's Mr. Pearl. Mania. Usually I yell at you. Usually I do. But I'm not going to right now because the world's yelling at you. That's why this week we're going to dig in the dirt. We're going to get our nails dirty. We're going to think. We're going to talk and think about photosynthesis and the history of gardens. Because that's what Mrs. P's been looking at. Because she's been looking out at the world. She said, that's a lot of oil in the sky. Why don't we put that oil back down in the dirt?

[A]

Right, Mrs. P. That's sort of, kind of how it started.

[B]

Okay.

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Well, it, of course, took a different

[B]

turn how did it take a different turn?

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Okay, so here's the thing. I did want to do an episode on gardening.

[B]

I know you did, because we got

[A]

to get outside in the sunshine. We got to have hope for the future. We want to grow vegetables.

[B]

Speaking of sunshine, can I tell you something? Breaking news. My seasonal depression broke.

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That's true.

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I went outside. Sun hit my face. I touched grass.

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Are you going to talk with the accent the whole time?

[B]

Maybe. It feels right today, doesn't it?

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Sunshine really got you.

[B]

You know, sometimes you just need. People need to know that you're a zest of Southerner underneath it all.

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Sometimes people need to know that you're nothing but a house plant and you need sunshine and water. And yesterday you remembered to drink water and go out in the sun.

[B]

And here I am.

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Now you're a different person.

[B]

You know, I just think. I just think it's time. All right, so tell us all about what you were learning about.

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Okay, so I wanted to do an episode about gardening, the history of gardening. But what actually ended up happening is that I realized that gardens are really political.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yes. And gardenings can even cause or end or support wars.

[B]

Wait, gardens?

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Yes, gardens.

[B]

Gardens are political?

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Yes.

[B]

You're talking about little garden with little roses. Maybe a little pumpkin over here. Maybe a little vegetables.

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Yes.

[B]

Your little dainty gardens are political and could cause wars.

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Yes. Let me tell you about tulips. What do you know about tulips?

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Tulips?

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Yes, tulips. What do you know about them?

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I know that they're. We had a dog named Tulip.

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That's true. Did you know that tulips caused an emperor to get overthrown?

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An emperor?

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Yeah. Well, technically, a sultan.

[B]

A sultan?

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Yeah. Can I tell you about this?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, sure. Okay, so you're going to tell me about how a sultan got overthrown because of tulips. Where was the sultan?

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Okay, so the Ottoman sultan, Ahmet III, who reigned from 1703 to 1730, fucking loved tulips.

[B]

Okay, so we gotta. Okay, so you got an Ottoman sultan obsessed with tulips.

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Loves them.

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Got it.

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And he would throw tulip festivals every year.

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A tulip party.

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A big. A big festival of tulips.

[B]

Okay, so.

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Okay, thing you gotta understand about certain flowers, right? They bloom at certain times. So tulips are an early spring flower. They show up right at the beginning of spring, and they bloom for, like, maybe a week or two.

[B]

Yeah. That's why they're always in, like, Easter baskets and stuff like that. When people put up Their little Easter decorations. Which can I say real fast. Yeah, I say something. I know. I know you like Easter because of pastels and stuff like that. Not a fan. Not a fan of Easter over here.

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What are you talking.

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Because it moves. I like. I like a holiday that sticks. Stick the landing on the calendar.

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But it's a fun holiday. You get to dye eggs. There's. What's it called? Deviled eggs.

[B]

Yeah, okay.

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Yeah.

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But you have devil eggs year round, the way you live. What I'm saying, though, is, like, your

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favorite candy is Easter candy.

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Yeah, I know that. I know that. But here's the thing. I can't trust when the Easter candy is going to show up, because Easter moves around. Sometime Easter is in mid March. Sometime Easter is in, like, mid April. No, no. Moon base holidays. That's my feeling about it in the American calendar. All right? It's got a stick. Stick stay at the same area. That's my feeling about Easter in general. And that's why I get annoyed. That's one of the things I get annoyed about. Cause you're over here saying that tulips are early spring. Right. But then they move around, and so they don't always. So sometimes you got a picture of a bunny and there's tulips, but the tulips have already wilted. They've already done the thing.

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Can I tell you, my. My hot take is about Easter.

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Okay.

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Is that okay? So talking about Easter candy and Easter sweets.

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Yeah.

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I like Easter candy and Easter sweets. For sure. I love a peep. But Passover candy. Way better.

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We did. I did a whole.

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We did a tier list of it. I know. I just put it up again.

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I know. We did a tier list.

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We have a lot of new listeners and people that watch us on YouTube because they came over from crashing out. They don't know about the tier list.

[B]

Yeah. They don't know that. If you go deep into the thing I used to call Pearl manic episodes. Yeah. That there are random tier lists. But that's fine. Okay. We're talking about the salt.

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So Ottoman Sultan Ahmet the Third.

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Okay.

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1703-1730. Love tulips through a tulip festival every year.

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Okay?

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Now, the extravagance of the Sultan's annual tulip festival ultimately proved to be his downfall.

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Really?

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And the waste of wealth helped fire the revolt that ended his rule.

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Wow. Okay.

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Okay. So here's. Here's this whole concept, okay? He's going to get thousands and thousands of tulips. So many fucking tulips.

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Okay.

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And he actually shipped. Ships them in from the Netherlands.

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He shipped them in from. So he went to the Dutch. Yeah, he bought Dutch and I. Dutch tulips is crazy. So he got Dutch tulips. Yeah. And he shipped them to Turkey.

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Yes.

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Because that's where the Ottoman Empire was.

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Yeah.

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So he shipped them over there, and then he just started setting them up. So he's taking his entire country's wealth and dumping them into the Netherlands.

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Yeah. So here's the thing. He. He's gonna pay a bunch of people because he's getting. He's bringing in all the best tulips because the Dutch are known for their tulips, right?

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Yeah.

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They actually were the best at really, like, growing tulips in mass and changing the colors and breeding them to be certain colors. And so he was like, I want to have the best, most beautiful tulips. And sometimes he did a theme. Love a theme.

[B]

Love a theme.

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Okay. And so.

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So he's doing the Met Gala, but tulips.

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Yes. Every year. Okay. And so one thing you need to understand about a tulip and is specifically a tulip looks like this, like, almost like a light praying hand, like, with the hands open. And that's when people would say that tulips are their most beautiful. When they're slightly closed a little bit.

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They're like a tight tulip.

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Yeah, they like a tight tulip.

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Like a tight tulip.

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But a tulip, as it. As it, you know, opens. It opens fully, Right?

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Yeah.

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And they're. They're less attractive this way because.

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Well, why? Because they got some years on them.

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Yeah, exactly. Oh.

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They're weathered by time. Okay. To me, it looks like that they have knowledge and they have experience.

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So when they're fully bloomed, I think real fast.

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I'm tired of elites that only want. No, no, no, no, no, no.

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This is a garden flower episode right now. We're not doing that.

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Okay, well, you.

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I will get the spray bottle. I found where you hit it.

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Okay. I'm just saying, when we started this episode, I was in a good mood. And then you said, two of us are political, and now you brought back old Perlman. There was outside son Perlman. He had a good time, and he was ready for.

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After we record this episode, we can go back out in the sun.

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Okay. I want to go outside in the sun, and I want to watch our kids, and I don't want to see our kids go down a slide.

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Okay, so the. So again, the tulips, they're blooming open, blooming open. But the sultan thinks they're pretty or a little bit closed. So he.

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What I just say. You just cut me off.

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He pays hundreds of workers to go out into his tulip field.

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Okay.

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Because again, this is this. This experience he's creating, this extravaganza is in a huge field area. It's acres of tulips, acres of tulips. And he pays hundreds of people to go out and. And by hand, like kind of sew the tulips closed lightly with fine threads

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so you can barely see them.

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Exactly. So real thin fine threads are being hand tied around the tulip bloom to hold them closed.

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So he's basically doing like. Was it like a vaginoplasty?

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Yes, kind of sort of mass vagino

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plastic to a field. Okay, well, I'm sorry.

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I don't like that.

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I'm sorry. They're called tulips. What do you want me to go with?

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Most the tulips are grown in place, right? So the bulbs are planted and, you know, they measure it out all over these massive fields and they. And. And the gardens, because it's. It's a walkable garden as well. Right. So they're measuring them out, like every six inches, there's tulip bulbs growing. But he wanted more tulips. So they also grew them in a separate area and then hand cut those ones and placed more tulips and glass bulbs, I mean, glass vases in between each tulip that's growing out of the ground. So it looks like even more tulips are growing out of the ground.

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Got it. So also that way you can change them out.

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Yes.

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You can move them around. You have a little bit of like a tulip bed.

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Also, to again, make the scale of the display seem even bigger, he placed mirrors strategically all around the garden so it would give this effect of, like, even further distance of tulips.

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So he's working like a bad. It's like a bad bar. That's just all I have to say about it. You know when you go to a bad bar and you're like, this bar kind of sucks, but, like, it looks a little bit bigger. It's because the owner has strategically placed mirrors everywhere to just make the bar look wider.

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So each tulip variety. Because again, there'd be like a few different colors, because again, there's a theme. So like, maybe the theme is purple. So each purple tulip would have the label of what type of tulip it was in. See? Silver. Right? So like, we're using real silver for Each tulip label. Okay.

[B]

He's not cutting any expenses. No, this is. This sounds. This sounds a lot like a ballroom.

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It's very much. It's like an outdoor ballroom. You're right. Every fourth flower would have a lit candle placed next to it.

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Very fourth one. Every fourth one. There's. Somebody had to go by, and then you have to have somebody go by and light them.

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Yes.

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Oh, my God.

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Every fourth. Think of thousands and thousands of tulips in this field and garden. Every fourth flower has a lit candle. Okay.

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This is what. This is what we're losing with AI this is the thing.

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Songbirds in beautiful gilded cages were placed all around the gardens to supply music through the air.

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What?

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Hundreds.

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Wait, hold on. I'm not over songbirds. I'm not over collecting songbirds to put. All over.

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Yeah.

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Oh, that's.

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I assume he also made the gilded cages out of silver and gold. To go.

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Yeah, of course. Well, why would you. Oh, no, it's bamboo. No, Off. That's insane. Yeah, but it's also like. I just never thought about using birds that way.

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Well, they needed to have a good ambiance, a good soundtrack.

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Yeah, I know. I'm just surprised it wasn't like an orchestra or like a quartet or something like that. It's just. It had songbirds who caught the birds.

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Somebody had to go out and catch the birds when they were done hand selling tortoises.

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No, you're right. You're right. This is so much money.

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Hundreds of giant tortoises with lit candles attached to their backs lumbered around the gardens, further illuminating the displays.

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This is like a DND library. Now this is a dungeon and dragons set.

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Where do you think they got the idea from?

[B]

I know, but this is insane. Okay, you're. Okay. Imagine you're a giant tortoise. You're ancient.

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Yeah.

[B]

You're a century old.

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You've been around forever.

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You've been around forever. You've seen the sun rise and set on empires, and then one day some guy scoops you up off the beach and drags you into a giant. A giant multi dimensional colored garden full of just. Tulip. Only tulips.

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Yeah.

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And there's mirrors.

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Yeah.

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And there's birds everywhere. And the only thing you can keep thinking of, these birds, they're definitely gonna try to kill my eggs.

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Yeah.

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I got. I gotta get these eggs to the beach as fast as possible.

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Those are turtle. Those are turtles you're describing. These are tortoises.

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Oh, okay.

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Okay.

[B]

Well, I know there's probably a difference out there and get in the comments like, and subscribe and tell us what those are. But I just want to imagine somebody sticking a candle onto your back. Their back is also their spine.

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Yeah.

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That's crazy.

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Yeah. And then that's just slowly, a little bit of wax. They have to drip the wax onto the tortoise's shell and then slam the candle.

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Have you ever been to a garden? That modern day garden that has peacocks? Yeah. That they're just loose.

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I know, they're mean.

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That feels weird enough.

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They're mean.

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But having hundreds of tortoises walking around slowly. With. With fire on them.

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With a fire on them.

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They don't even have the concept of fire. No, they're tortoises.

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So also, all the guests, that.

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This feels very much like stapling. This feels like stapling antlers to dormice. Yeah. This feels like in Scrooge.

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Very much this.

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I just. I'm sorry. I'm not going to get over this. I thought I was like, all right, the sultan kind of cool. And then you're like, well, you know, yeah, sure. He's an Ottoman sultan. And I'm sure that there was like horrors and war and all those other things, but now that I've heard he's rude to animals.

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Yeah.

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Now he's on the Kristi Noem list.

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Okay.

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I think of this guy and Kristi Noem equal. And on top of the opulence, just like Pete Hegseth. That guy spent $9 million on seafood.

[A]

What?

[B]

Pete Hegseth?

[A]

How. How much seafood is that?

[B]

He bought like $2 million in crab and $7 million in lobster.

[A]

Oh, is this because they had to send it out to the military to get their one big meal?

[B]

Yeah. They had to get a nice meal before.

[A]

The military people will always tell you, if crabs and lobster show up, you know, you're in big trouble.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, but that's. That's how bad. That's how many wars Pete Hegseth has started. He has to keep.

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I don't even think it was that expensive. It's the tariffs on getting the crabs from out of country. And you know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

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You know, they didn't just go to Maine. They wanted to import. Anyway. We got tortoises, we got birds, we got hand tied flowers.

[B]

Yep.

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With silver plating saying the names. All the guests that were invited were required to dress in colors that flattered the tulips. So again, our guy is about a theme. If the theme is purple tulips, he's going to tell you to wear colors that go with purple. So, like, again, purple.

[B]

So he's doing. He's doing Diddy white parties.

[A]

I'm not. Okay. Don't jump to that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was going to talk about color theory.

[B]

I know.

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And about how, like. So again, I'm wearing a purple turtleneck.

[B]

Yeah.

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But my nails are a nice minty green.

[B]

Right.

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So he's telling people you have to wear colors that compliment. So he doesn't want you to match.

[B]

Okay.

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He wants you to compliment.

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Okay.

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Which again, a man with a theme. Okay. He also. All right.

[B]

My apologies to the Ottoman sultan for comparing him to Diddy real fast. My apologies. All right. Because this is also before oil became a big thing in the Middle East. So this is pre. And Diddy was all about the oil.

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So at an appointed moment, a cannon was shot in the air and the doors of the harem flung open.

[B]

A cannon that's gonna.

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The sultan's mistresses stepped out into the gardens, led by eunuchs bearing torches.

[B]

So this is a diddy party. He's got a harem of ladies being led by eunuchs. That's. That's men with that had the. The snip.

[A]

Castrated.

[B]

They're castrated. The claviculars of the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're coming out there. Cuz, you know, he's. He's. He's. He got.

[A]

I don't really truly understand who that man is, and I don't want to find out.

[B]

Clavicular. I.

[A]

All I know is he hammers his face.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And. But we're.

[B]

And he does a little bit of meth.

[A]

What do you mean he does a little bit of meth? Nobody does a little bit of meth.

[B]

He does just a little bit of meth.

[A]

Nobody does a little bit of meth.

[B]

Stay skinny. He does just a little bit of meth.

[A]

Everybody thinks they're doing a little bit of meth.

[B]

He does a little bit of. Just a little bit of meth. Okay, wait. Real fast, real fast.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Cannon shoot. Boom. Doors swing open.

[B]

Women come in with torches, come out. They already have the tortoises. What's the point of the tortoises if you have eunuchs with torches?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This feels crazy.

[A]

So this whole scene that I just described to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The birds, the tortoises, the harem, all of it. The cannons.

[B]

Yes. Is mar a lago.

[A]

Is repeated every night for as long as the tulips are in bloom.

[B]

As you just said. That's like big. 10 days. 11 days.

[A]

10 or 11 days.

[B]

This is up to two weeks and this is like the most boring Oktoberfest in history.

[A]

This would. Are you talking about this be a great time?

[B]

It would be pretty good time, but I. Maybe for you.

[A]

What else are you doing back then it was 1703.

[B]

1707.

[A]

Yeah, it was like 17 oh something back then.

[B]

I don't know, I'd probably be like, hey, do you know, guys know if you electrify this frog, its arms go shoot out.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's what they do. That's how Frankenstein.

[A]

But his subjects.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Fueled by anger over the elite subject, excessive luxury, God, high taxes and military defeats, specifically military defeats in Iran, rose up against him.

[B]

So you're telling me that there is a sultan in a gilded palace who keeps throwing wild parties and ignoring the pleas of his people, who then lost a war to Iran, was then overthrown by his people.

[A]

And that's why I'm saying gardens are political.

[B]

That's very interesting. You know you did. Okay, I will say on this point, on this very point, you kind of nailed it. Yeah, that's a garden. That's political. But you use the plural. So I feel like you have more gardens in your back.

[A]

I have a lot to talk about. Why don't we take a break and when we come back, I'm going to talk more about gardens and war.

[C]

My perfect day has sand, salt water and friends. But my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis can take me out of the moment. Now I'm all in with clearer skin thanks to skyrizi risen Kizumab RZA a prescription only 150 milligram injection for adults who are candidates for systemic or phototherapy. With Skyrizi, Most people saw 90% clearer skin and many were even 100% plaque free at four months. Skyrizi is just four doses a year after two starter doses.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

Nothing is everything.

[C]

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[B]

And we're back. Now Mrs. P is about to tell us about more political garden.

[A]

I'm about to tell you about more political garbage.

[B]

Well, us people are listening. Okay? People are listening and watching and watching okay, they're doing stuff.

[A]

Secret YouTube.

[B]

Okay. Or they're on itunes, right? Or they're on Apple pod.

[A]

Spotify.

[B]

Spotify. They're giving us five stars. They're writing new reviews. You know, we love a review.

[A]

We love a review.

[B]

You know, over in crashing out, people give reviews. Okay, I got a one star. What?

[A]

It said.

[B]

It said, oh, can't wait for another hour of two liberal cucks complaining about everything. And I was like, all right, that is a way to describe the show.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But, yeah, but there's.

[A]

Don't leave that review on our show.

[B]

Yeah, but go over there. Go Give crashing out 5 stars.

[A]

This is not about crashing out.

[B]

Yeah, it is about crashing out. You're telling me that gardens are political and could start and end wars.

[A]

Okay, so first I want to talk to you about general gardening stuff.

[B]

Stuff. General. You need general gardening.

[A]

You need to understand certain things.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Okay. Because I know that you don't know anything about gardens except for that I'm always outside and doing stuff.

[B]

Well, this is what I know about gardens. Okay. Sometimes you track dirt in the back door.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I get upset about it.

[A]

Okay. And that's it.

[B]

That's about it.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Oh, photosynthesis.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, what's the powerhouse of the cell?

[B]

Mitochondria. Yeah.

[A]

You're learning stuff. You're learning stuff.

[B]

Can I tell you? Here's what I also know about gardening. I have personally killed six banzais.

[A]

Yeah. That's very true and accurate statement. I bore witness to one of those banzai death.

[B]

Because here's the. When I was a kid, I wanted a banzai. I watched the. What's the movie with the kung fu.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Karate Kid.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There's bonsais and Karate Kid.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

And I went, I like that. And I got a bonsai. I think I was 12.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Killed it.

[A]

Did you do any research on how to care for it?

[B]

Then when I was 16, got another one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Killed it. All right, all right. Then I went to college.

[A]

Uhhuh.

[B]

My roommate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He moved out, gave me his bonsai.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

It died.

[A]

Go to the library, get a book on bonsai.

[B]

And then slowly then people just started giving me bonsai. She's like, oh, yeah, I remember. Probably had a bonsai. I'll get him another one. And I'm like, that one died.

[A]

Ah.

[B]

And then it just became slowly. If you. It's. You're just feeding bonsai to me to murder.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so don't give me a bonsai. Give Mrs. P a bonsai.

[A]

Yeah. Give me a bonsai.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I'll watch one YouTube video about how to care for a bonsai, and then the bonsai doesn't die.

[B]

Here's my problem with plants, okay? They don't tell you when they're thirsty with words.

[A]

Literally.

[B]

They do with words. I need to. I need to emote our child. He's like, juice. And I'm like, juice.

[A]

Nailed it. More.

[B]

More.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Hungry. Hungry. Yeah, that's a competent. The dog whines.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's when he gets fed. Or 5 o'. Clock.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whichever one hits first. If it's 4. 45. And he's. Why am I close enough?

[A]

You can wait. Okay, so I don't know that you know a lot about keeping a plant alive based on what I've just learned.

[B]

Well, what there is, is it's outside.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then sometimes it dies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's why I know about plants. So I'm ready for the apocalypse.

[A]

For forest gardening is the world's oldest form of gardening. Gardening really starts with the idea of forest gardening.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's the. The easiest way to describe forest gardening for me is that just fucking common sense? It's how nature works. There's taller trees, they create a canopy. They protect the shrubs that are smaller, vines grow up the trees, root vegetables go into the ground, and leafy stuff comes out, like spinach. Boom. That's forest gardening.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And when. When humans began gardening, that's how they did it. And to this day, most indigenous people around the globe still follow that same gardening methodology. And so forest gardening is technically how all gardening starts.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But with the emergence of civilizations. Yeah, right. When you have a civilization, you're gonna get warmongers. Right. And elites. Yeah, things like that. Once you get enough people together, suddenly there's a warmonger in an elite.

[B]

Yeah, it takes about 25 people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Once you get about 25 people together and then you find another group of 25 people, you'd be like, wow, you know what? If we kill those guys over there, we'd feel better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, you know, those guys over there, they got.

[A]

We seem to be minding their business.

[B]

Those guys over there grow wheat.

[A]

So with the emergence of the first civilizations and the first wealthy individuals, you know, becoming a thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Those wealthy individuals started to create gardens for aesthetic purposes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So originally, if you are growing a garden or anything, it's usually for food. It's fruit from trees, nuts, vegetables, root vegetables.

[B]

So what you're saying is we went from forest gardens to fields.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Agricultural. Which is like, people don't view a field of wheat. Yeah. Or Of. Or. Or a olive grove or something like that. They don't view those as gardens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even though they are. They're giant parts. But we view those as orchards or fields or vineyards. Like, that's how we view them. So what you're saying is we. That once we got enough people had big enough houses.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that's the thing that's actually crazy when you go back to this time where you're talking about specifically around, like, Mesopotamia, Iran, the Fertile Crescent and all those areas. And even Egypt, all of the names for chiefs almost always go back to the guy with the biggest house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just the. The really tall guy with the big house. That's what his name is. And then over time, the big, tall guy with big house name becomes like, pharaoh. Yeah. Like, that's just what that means.

[A]

So speaking of Egypt. Egypt. Egypt. Sorry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ancient Egyptian tomb paintings provide some of the earliest physical evidence. I lost a nail. Of horticulture and landscape design. A notable example of ancient ornamental gardens was the Hanging Garden of Babylon, which is one of the seven wonders of the world.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Then that's. That was one of the famous ones. And it's because it was a tiered garden.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was how it was described. And it looked like it was hanging from the sky.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was always the hardest one for me to picture.

[A]

Yeah. But it's really cool when you see the. The mock ups that people see the

[B]

mock ups because it was destroyed.

[A]

And then, you know, what you do is you look at the mockups and you listen to Stevie Nick's Seven Wonders of the World. Even though we do know that private equity owns that song.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we're not gonna use it. We're not paying them.

[B]

We're not gonna pay them. But also, it's a good song.

[A]

It's a great song.

[B]

I like putting on some Stevie Nick sometimes.

[A]

Well, the ancient Egyptians used gardens to provide shade.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So they were big into shade gardens because, again, hot. Egyptians associated trees and gardens themselves with the gods, believing that the deities were pleased by gardens. So when they're building these gardens for shade, they're also doing it to honor God. So a lot of their. What we would call landscape design is about honoring gods.

[B]

Yeah. So it's more like sacred grove type of feel to it. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Among the most popular species of plants they grew were date palms, fig trees, roses, poppies, and iris.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's a good combination.

[A]

Now, when the Persians were developing their gardens, they did it because of climate real fast.

[B]

Just so everybody knows Persia. Persia is Iran.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's the same area. So just to tie everything together. So Persian gardens.

[A]

Persian gardens. Again, they're wealthiest people. The, the wealthiest Persians, when they were creating their gardens, they were really looking at it from a climate perspective. So they're not honoring the gods. They're like, hey, it's getting pretty cold. What if we created an enclosed garden where it would keep us warm with the heat from the plants? Right. They also, they made gardens that would protect them from drying winds. So they started doing enclosed gardens or semi enclosed gardens because again, the winds that are blowing through are so drying and feel bad on the barren terrain that making these beautiful gardens was a, a response to what they were living through.

[B]

Yeah. It was a green space to be able to go into kind of similar. When you look at a modern city today, you're like a garden or a small park is a green space where you can find some respite in it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The other thing too, to keep in mind, Persia, Iran. Hey, President Trump, I know you're thinking about boots on the ground. Very, very mountainous. If you go look at a terrain map of Iran, it is covered in mountains and it is very, very, very windy. In fact, actually, they had some of the. The earliest windmills. Yeah. Where they are to process grain and all these other different things. The elements are very different. It has a higher altitude. There's all these things about that are wildly different than Egypt. Yeah. When you're comparing the two. And those are like two of the earlier civilizations. And then in between them, like she was saying Babylon, that is the Tigris and Euphrates, modern day Iraq. That's an area in there. And this is kind of where in general, where the birth lines of Western civilization come from.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is where all of our general ideas around this stuff kind of come from. Because this is where people from Europe will travel to and then go back. Cool ideas.

[A]

So speaking of that Alexander the Great.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

When he was conquering parts of this area.

[B]

Oh, that Alexander. I thought you're talking about me, Alex. The. Okay.

[A]

He brought back with him. Okay. So he, he immediately. These Persian gardens. He's enamored.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He thinks they're so beautiful. He loves them. He's over there conquering, but at the same time being like, okay, well this is nice.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, well, real fast, let me just explain to people who Alexander the Great is, because we don't want to assume we don't want to assume Alexander the Great was from Macedon, which is an area in ancient Greece.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He conquered. His dad conquered all of ancient Greece.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Then Alexander the Great then went on a tear, and he proceeded to conquer the Persian Empire, Egypt, and he got his forces all the way to India, and then he turned around and then died. Because he was just one of those guys was like, oh, I love killing and conquering. And then one day, his guys are like, we don't even know where we live anymore. I don't even know what this is. And basically, one of the things that happened is he. He Hellenized. He hellenized the entire region. So there are areas of people in Afghanistan that spoke ancient Greek.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, people don't think about that. Like, we think of Afghanistan is very type of feel. But there were Greeks living in there, and actually those Greeks eventually met the Chinese. Like, there's like, crazy stuff like that that happened. But when he took his forces into Persia and into those areas where he. Some of which he burned, some of which he conquered, he did what they used to call go. He went native. He got there, and he immediately culturally appropriated everything he saw. And he was like, no, no, this would be like somebody from Ohio. Somebody from Ohio or Iowa moving to Brooklyn. And then their friends who are from Iowa are like, yo, dude, why don't you like Rascal Flats anymore? And they're like, no, I'm more into, like, Mitsky.

[A]

You're describing Madonna moving to the uk.

[B]

Yes. And then suddenly having the accent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes. It's 100% that. Except it's Alexander the Great, and he's surrounded by 10,000 Macedonian warriors and then all these other different people. Because every time he conquered somebody, he took some of their troops with them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it kept moving along. And so this. This cultural transference went back towards Greece.

[A]

So, like, you're saying. Yes, when he's in Persia, he's seeing these beautiful gardens, he immediately falls in love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he, like, becomes a gardener, a horticulturist. He becomes obsessed. It becomes like a hobby for him. He brings fruits and plants and trees from Persia with him to take back to. And also, wherever he travels, he's bringing plants with him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's crazy. Like, he was like, oh, no, no, this. This is my new hobby.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. He was like, oh, I like that flower over there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You go back that way, like you over there and move that over here. Also, we're going to put a bunch of you in a city I just named after Myself.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Because he named like a bunch of cities after himself and his horse.

[A]

That sounds like something you would do.

[B]

Okay, I don't name things at Pearl Mania 500. Okay. You're right. This podcast originally was just my name.

[A]

Ancient Greek gardens. Say we're going to go check out the Greeks. You brought them up. You brought them up.

[B]

I brought them up naturally in the conversation.

[A]

Ancient Greek gardens were very pot heavy.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

So what I mean by that, you

[B]

don't mean the doobies.

[A]

No.

[B]

You're not talking about end of class.

[A]

I'm not talking about in the class.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm talking about big terracotta pots.

[B]

Oh, urns and vases.

[A]

Yes. So, so as we look at gardens, a lot of them are like, they're growing them in the ground. They're building areas that out of soil that already exists. But the Greeks really like to have big pots. Lots and lots and lots of pots

[B]

around so they can move them.

[A]

Exactly. So they're movable, so that they're easy to organize. They're like, this pot is rosemary, this pot is oregano. Like, and it was. It was a very potted style of gardening. So when you see specific Mediterranean and Greek inspired gardens, you're going to see big, beautiful pots.

[B]

Big beautiful pots is a crazy sentence. But also, this is also one of the things that ties in with kind of the archeology from the time.

[A]

Yeah. Is like, that's why the archaeologists are always like, we found some more broken ass pot.

[B]

We found some pot shards over here. We found some pot shards.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then that also explains then too, when you're looking at a lot of these pots, if you go to a museum and they have like ancient Greek pots, that's where they painted, like stories and things like that. I think about that a lot, actually. When I was younger, I was like, oh, that's kind of crazy that, you know, they keep constantly painting like, you know, Medusa's head getting cut off. Right. Or like. Or this story over here. But then again, we've been buying sippy cups for our toddler and every single one of them now has Toy Story on Sabbath. If it doesn't have Toy Story on it.

[A]

Drink out of a cup that doesn't have something cool.

[B]

It has to have sporky on it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's just the way it is now. It has to have sporky. It has to have bullseye. It used to be Lightning McQueen, but he went out of over Kacha. He's done. Nobody cares about Lightning McQueen anymore. This is a this is a Woody and Jesse House.

[A]

Yeah,

[B]

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[A]

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[A]

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[A]

The Persians were going into the gardens to avoid the weather.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And wait, what was the other? Did I just forget what I was thinking of? The Egyptians would go into their gardens to honor the gods. When the Greeks were in their garden areas, they were putting a lot of seeding around. This is another reason for pots. So a lot of seed. Sitting areas because they were seating. Seating.

[B]

I thought you said seating.

[A]

Sitting like they're sitting down.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because a lot of the times when they were creating these gardens, they were sitting areas to. To have socialized, philosophical discussion.

[B]

Yeah, the Greeks were yappers. They were yappers. It's their big thing, their favorite thing to do. Yap, yap, yap. Not big on doing. Love it. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I didn't say that. You said.

[B]

Yeah, I know. We went there.

[A]

You cancel me.

[B]

No, you're not getting canceled. Nobody's getting canceled. We went there on our honeymoon. I'm not worried about the Greeks canceling us. They'd have to do something then.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

The. The. The whole thing, though, is like the reason why philosophy comes from ancient Greece and all these different stuff is because they would have these areas to sit and discuss and try to figure things out. And then when it was a little bit warmer, it was kind of rocky. They'd have a little battle here and there, have a little war, have a little battle.

[A]

Not too much.

[B]

Not too much. And then they'd have a ditty party. They did. They had diddy parties. The Greeks had diddy parties.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There's no way around it. All right.

[A]

Why you keep trying to bring up diddy parties?

[B]

Because this is your episode. I'm so sorry that they just go hand in hand.

[A]

They do not go hand in hand.

[B]

Well, they go hand in oil, but. Okay, but the thing is, is, is when the Greeks are. Were very good at the cultural assimilate, assimilation and all these different things, and they were able to take all these different parts, and it's. They're the reason we know so much about everybody else around because they, you know, they had this guy Herodotus and other people who went around and we're just like, that's pretty cool. And then they wrote it down because, like, I need to write that down because I got to yap about it when I get back.

[A]

They be talking.

[B]

Yeah, they do be talking.

[A]

Listen, we talked about it in a previous episode that gossip isn't bad to talk about stuff. Also, they were. They were talking so much, they had to write it down on the pots.

[B]

That's true. They did. And we have pot.

[A]

So they, like, sat in a garden filled with pots that were covered in the gossip. They were talking about.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Imagine. Imagine sitting in a Garden covered in tweets. Oh, put the songbirds back up.

[A]

So, of course, okay, if Egyptians, the Persians, and the Greeks are doing something, who's copying them?

[B]

Oh, the Romans.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. You would know the answer.

[B]

Yeah. The Romans were like, AI. They just stole from everyone and claimed it was theirs. Yeah, that's just what they did. I mean, like, everything that we think. Most of the things that we think are like these cool Roman ideas, they were just like. Like that mine. Yeah. You know, even down to their gods, it's just how it is.

[A]

So your everyday, regular, schmegular Romans often use what's called a kitchen garden.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So this is a small garden probably at the rear of the house, closer to the kitchen, where they would. They would get vegetables and herbs for their families. Literally. Literally. This kitchen garden idea is happening around the globe back then, right now, during all times, but the Romans were the first ones to start writing it down.

[B]

Got it. Yeah. It makes sense. And the thing is, is that remember about ancient Rome is. Honestly, I know we bring up Philadelphia a lot on this podcast.

[A]

Not today.

[B]

Well, actually, I'm going to do it because if you look at the way ancient Rome is laid out, it's very. When it comes to, like, looking at one of their blocks, it's kind of similar to, like, how Philly is laid out or Baltimore or, like, an east coast city, like, because of. You have these, like, almost, what looks like almost like row houses. Yeah. One, two, maybe three story buildings that are. There a small plot of land out back where they could have. If you don't mind, in the cities themselves, where you could have a small garden. In Philly, you have, like, a little small outback plot that could be just a little bit of dirt that you could be able to grow some things in. You could put some potted plants out there. You. You could grow just enough stuff to have maybe a little spice here and there, maybe a little extra thing over there. You don't have ne. Until you're out into the countryside, you don't have the space to really make enough to live on just this alone all year. Because you're living in civilization. The goal is, oh, I'm hungry. Let's go down to the chicken skewer guy. Because there literally were. There were guys like, they had. Romans had, like, fast food. Romans had, like, all these different things.

[A]

That's still. You see that a lot in Asia.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, whenever you see, like, in Hong Kong, like, people are like, this guy has been making the same chicken skewer yeah. For a millennial. Like, his family's passed down chicken skewer recipe. He wakes up every morning and he

[B]

makes the chicken special rice pancake with a special sauce on it or whatever. This is 200 years old.

[A]

We got it.

[B]

But we also had that, though, in. In ancient Europe. Like, that's the thing is, like, people don't. People like, joke when they look at something like the Flintstones, right. And they're like, oh, they take a modern thing and they make it Stone Age. And it's like. And so that you see, like comedies do that about ancient Rome. But then as you go through places like ancient Rome and ancient Greece, you're like, oh, no, that actually was real. We just keep reinventing the same thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We just add a new flavor to it. It's the same thing over and over again. Just with. This time they made it electric. This time they made it AI. This time they made it quantum. This time it was copper instead of stone, you know.

[A]

Anyway, okay. The wealthy Romans saw the grandeur of what the Egyptians and the Persians were doing, and they were like, we got to get in on that.

[B]

They gotta have immediately. We need these cultures keeping up with

[A]

the Joneses out here.

[B]

They're the pharaohs.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Their gardens, they laid out with a lot of hedges. They got big in hedges.

[B]

The Romans loved ahead.

[A]

The Romans loved a head love ahead, big into hedges. They loved using ivy, lavender, lilies, narcissus, poppy and rosemary. Okay. Those were like, some of the favorites of their garden.

[B]

Well, it also makes sense too, because those are also things that, like, thrive in Italy.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Yeah. Again, you have to base everything around the climate they have available.

[A]

Also statues.

[B]

Love a statue.

[A]

Hella statues. Romans are the ones that are going to start putting statues in gardens.

[B]

God. Okay.

[A]

They're like, we're putting some sculptures in this garden.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And if you want to know what that looks like today, go to any Catholic church, because it is. There's any Roman Catholic.

[A]

Roman Catholic, Yeah.

[B]

You're going to see a hedge. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to walk up and there's going to be a hedge. There's going to be a statue of the Virgin Mary and there's going to be a bench in front of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's basically a Roman guard where we're like 90% of the way to a Roman garden.

[A]

Yeah. Or St. Anthony or St. Francis.

[B]

I mean, there's going to be some sort of saint.

[A]

You got to say, usually listen, nine times out of 10 times, you don't see a lot of St. Joseph. I'm going to say that Joseph, Jesus's dad, the car.

[B]

Stepdad.

[A]

Yeah, you.

[B]

They're technically not his real dad. Not his real dad, technically.

[A]

So technically he's the same. Yeah.

[B]

Santa Cux.

[A]

But you don't see a lot of statues about him.

[B]

I'm not wrong. I'm not wrong.

[A]

So also, Romans are really the ones that came up with the idea of a flower bed.

[B]

Oh, really? That's a Roman idea.

[A]

So the idea of like I have dug out and created this almost raised bed area. I filled it with soil and we're just going to put flowers in here. That idea was very Roman. So they're hedges, they're flower beds, they're statues.

[B]

So slowly this is starting to look like our Italian neighbor's house. Yeah, describing. Yes, we got an Italian neighbor. He's got hedges, he's got flowers, he's got a little statue out there.

[A]

Hell yeah, dude.

[B]

Yeah. That's just what he likes the best. Culturally, the.

[A]

The Romans also started what we would describe as non residential gardening.

[B]

Okay, explain.

[A]

So I'm going now.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which refers to a garden planted and maintained for public use.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So temple gardens or sacred groves were established in honor of specific deities. Non residential gardens were constructed and dedicated to the public by the elites, by the rich.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The gardens were often attached to buildings or monuments constructed for public use, like theaters or bath houses, in a practice commonly referred to as ever get ism. I'm probably mispronouncing that, but that's how it said online ever get ism, which translates to do good deeds. It was the ancient practice of high status and wealthy individuals in a society distributing part of their wealth to the community.

[B]

Okay, so philanthropy. Yes, it was philanthropy. It was ancient philanthropy. They had a different word for it. For whatever reason, I'd never heard that word before in my life. I Listen, that's a new one to me.

[A]

I looked it up.

[B]

But also what you're describing, though, with these public gardens, these are parks. Yeah. These are basically just this are today we just call them parks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But back then they were gardens and they were well tended to. And the whole point of it, because the other part of it too, with all these different ones, because when you look at things like the ancient Roman emperors and senators, you look at guys like Julius Caesar and all these other ones, one of their big things back in the day, we've heard about bread and circuses. The other thing was to put up A park and let everybody know that you're the one that pays for the park.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that was then a billboard, too. Well, he's not that bad of a guy. Yeah, I. And then also, too, there's scents in there too, because of the flowers and because of the shade. All these different things. It's a nice thing they would do.

[A]

Like, maybe there'd be a. A lemon orchard that was dedicated to a certain guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you could go there and just pick lemons. You know what I mean? Like, it was a free range area for the public.

[B]

Well, there's also a lot of ancient religions. Like in ancient Judaism, there's a whole thing about, like, letting a certain percentage of your field be available to anyone. Yeah. Because that was part of it. It was like, yeah, okay, sure, you control 90% of it, but 10% of this field, you have to allow the poor to come in to, like, grab from because else you're being greedy.

[A]

Pull the oranges and burn them in front of the poor. That's what I learned.

[B]

Yep. Okay, Elon, that's kind of how that goes. But no, that's for real. That's what. That's like the difference of what we wanted. Like, over time we've gotten like. But people talk about, you know, get. Rejecting modernity and a return to ancient values.

[A]

Return to socialism.

[B]

Yeah. Most of the time what they're talking about is a very basic form of that of having things that are available. There's a reason. You've talked about this before on previous podcasts. I don't even remember which episodes about. There's a reason why they don't have fruited trees in the streets of cities.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because then homeless people would eat the apples.

[A]

You'd hate to see that.

[B]

You don't want to see them get a free apple.

[A]

You don't want them to have free fruit.

[B]

Yeah. And. But there's also. There's like generations of people right now walking around who do not know that food comes out of the ground.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, they just don't. They've lived their entire life. I mean, I've heard stories of kids who grew up in the city who were then taken out to, like, the middle of nowhere, taken out to the woods, or taken from New York City to Maine. And like, they don't refuse to take their shoes off to walk in the grass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they just come from a place where you just don't do that. And they don't trust the grass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's that same sort of feeling. It's just such a weird thing that this is slowly what's happening, you know, to us. And we have to have a different perspective when you look at the different world around you.

[A]

So during the Middle Ages, there was a huge decline in gardening for esthetic purposes.

[B]

Well, yeah, because we were just trying

[A]

to survive after the fall of Rome.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gardening was done for the purpose of growing medicinal herbs, vegetables, and decorating church altars.

[B]

Yeah. Because it was a slow, post apocalyptic wasteland, basically. People were literally living. They were living inside of the ruins of ancient temples.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And being like. Yeah, people used to do crazy stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, it's. Yeah.

[A]

Monasteries and convents were really the places that carried on the tradition of garden design. Okay. There were four types of garden designs that, like, historically that were. And again, it's like kitchen garden, medicinal garden. I forget the third one. But also the one that made me laugh the most because of the name is Cloister Garth. Cloister Garth Cloyster and then Garth. Cloister Garth.

[B]

Garth, like from Wayne's World. Yes. Okay, got it.

[A]

This a Cloister Garth is an enclosed garter garden within a monastery or cathedral, typically planted with herbs, flowers, and trees. So, like, when you're thinking of those HBO shows where they're showing the Pope rocking through, like, the beautiful cathedral.

[B]

No, there's like a very specific place that I see all the time, and it's used a lot in like, Game of Thrones.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's this one particular one. I doubt I can even find it if I searched it, but I think it's in England. But again, you're looking at an area where there's just the middle of the building is just open.

[A]

Yeah. There's usually a tree right in dead center.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then there's hedges and grass and flowers.

[B]

And the building was built around it. And there's a walkway that goes around

[A]

so you can see the priests stomping around.

[B]

Yeah. And that's usually where they like to do the. The west wing style walk and talk.

[A]

Yeah, the walk and talk.

[B]

No, you see, we need to make sure that Lord Reggie is held in inside of Brittany long enough so that way Lord Sir Wallace can come over the hills and save us from Scotland.

[A]

So I found out that Garth, in the term of Cloister Garth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Means almost any patch of enclosed ground used for a specific purpose. So they had apple Garths, which are just an orchard. Fish Garths.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which were an enclosed trapping to store fish. Vine Garths, which is a vineyard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Willow Garths, where they Just had fields of willows.

[B]

Yeah, this just sounds like walled gardens

[A]

Stack Garth, which was storing stacks of hay. And I wrote a little note to myself. I said, I have turned our backyard into a garlic Garth.

[B]

You have, you have. We have a garlic Garth in between our fence line.

[A]

My little garlic Garth out there.

[B]

A little garlic Garth. Yeah. No, that makes sense. That does make sense. I think fish when I hear fish Garth. I. I hear it more of like the idea of like an enclosed pond. I think of like almost like a koi pond. Yeah, that's kind of what I picture, like garden wise with a little, little water feature.

[A]

I love, love a water feature. Actually, when we get back from this break, I'm going to talk to you about water features and who invented them.

[B]

Okay. And we're back. And it's time to get wet with some water features, Mrs. P. Oh, get me soaking. Let's talk about gardens and water features.

[A]

No, I was going to say that.

[B]

All right, so you can. How did you not know? You've been married with me. How long?

[A]

Too long.

[B]

Too many long.

[A]

So Islamic gardens were built similar to Persian gardens. Okay, okay. But they're going to change the game because they're going to bring in water. Obviously all gardens need water.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We have to water the plants. Yeah, but the Quran is reflected in quotes in the water of an Islamic garden. So the water features that are about to come into these gardens symbolize the four rivers of paradise described described in the Quran, which is water, milk, wine and honey, which represent eternal life. These channels often. Okay, I'm going to say this wrong. I apologize in advance. The channels of water are built in a layout called the Chaharbach layout, which is four garden squares with a cross section in the middle. And there's walkways that lead to the center.

[B]

Oh, it's like a grid. Yes, it's a giant grid with like a cross that kind of happens.

[A]

And you can see these little walkways and then there's four waterways that go towards the center. And there's running water that goes towards the center.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you want to have the water run because. Or else you end up with mosquitoes.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

At the center of the garden there would be a reflecting pool. So like, think of like a really big beautiful bird bath that might have some still water in it. Or it was like one of those infinity pool styles where.

[B]

Oh, we're kind of gently falls over the side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So the.

[B]

Because you don't want the water to be too rapid, you're not looking like. We're not looking like the Fountain of Trevi or something like that. We're looking more for, like, the Washington Monument.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kind of the flat stillness. And you can kind of look into it.

[A]

Exactly. You got. Oh, my God, you're so into this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The moving waterways direct your eye to the still, still water at the center. Now, this is on purpose because it's all about stillness, and it's like, honoring the stillness of water and the movement of water and the duality of water.

[B]

Okay, gotcha. So gardens. In Islam, gardens are supposed to be a place of contemplation and austerity almost. Right. And so when going back to the story you told the very beginning, where a guy is firing a cannon and being like, and here's my ladies. And then, like, look at my big Austin ostentatious wheel feel.

[A]

Don't step on the tortoises.

[B]

No. We got the tortoise candles and listen to the birds. Like, that is almost a perversion. Yeah, right. That would be like. That would be like having, like, being like, oh, no. You know, like, looking at the Christianity side of things would be like, I don't know, building a giant gold statue of yourself and then putting it inside of a private club.

[A]

Okay. Also, the Islamic gardens really, they were the first group to really take scent into consideration.

[B]

Because it smell.

[A]

Yes. Oh, yes. Because scent has such a strong attachment to memory.

[B]

Yes. And so I've learned a lot on this show over four years.

[A]

I know you have.

[B]

Slowly.

[A]

It's taken a lot getting through there.

[B]

I know some people have listened to the show multiple times, are like, he's heard this before, and I want to let you know. First time for me. Every time.

[A]

Yeah, every time. Same over here.

[B]

Yeah. Sometimes you're reading me a thing, and I'm like, think you've read me that before?

[A]

I'm like, maybe.

[B]

Yeah. But we had a toddler and our memories hurt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there. The Islamic garden is going to take scent into consideration more than any other gardens before. The sensory aspect of the garden was very important. And the gardens would have, like, a theme. Right. So, like, if it was a garden about romance, so like a romantic garden for a couple that just got married for kissing. The garden would have lots of jasmine and roses growing in it for the scent. There were doctors that would have gardens, and they would build these big medicinal gardens, and they would grow camphor and sandalwood, because, again, with the moving water and the camphor, it would. It would make it so that you could breathe Easier. It had that eucalyptus effect to the air.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Which we have with Dr. Bronner's soap.

[A]

Yeah, that's actually funny. Shout out Dr. Bronner's.

[B]

We did an episode about Dr. Bronner's, but also in general eucalyptus soap. But there's been a thing though. It's this kind of falls into that idea of a essential oils in those things. But there is something about some of these scents and things like that, of how they open up your nasal passages. And like, I didn't believe. I like not believe, but I just didn't have experience with a lot of them. So when I heard about stuff like this earlier in my life, I'd be like, oh, eucalyptus. Or oh, this thing. Or oh, this thing. What? Any of these types of things. Right. And then as I got older, as I take a steam shower and use the eucalyptus soap, I was like, oh, that opens you up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Sandalwood. Like the difference like an have and like how scent theory can change your mood too.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And so like if you're like, you know, if, if you have a garden,

[A]

see us with the lavender essential oil and a humidifier.

[B]

She's got a slave, she's got this lavender spray.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

She runs around the room, knocked out.

[A]

Go to sleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so there's obviously many differences between all the different types of gardens.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That I've described. Right. I did think when I was doing this research that the one of the biggest differences that I thought was very interesting is that just like you said, the Islamic garden is really about sitting and reflecting. Right. While the English style garden, the European style is all about walking around and movement.

[B]

It's about looking at stuff.

[A]

Yeah. They're. They're about like you were saying, like the, they're, they're looping it to do the two person walk around.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, they're doing, they're doing the walk and talk. Yeah. No, that's crazy.

[A]

Actually.

[B]

No, that's. That makes a lot of sense too. It's also when you take a look at the regions we're talking about. Right. So when you look at the climate around them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you are rich in an area that's more arid, every foot that you want to have to be a garden probably has to be converted into garden land.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You have to import soil. You need to build things to do that. There's structure around it. When you look at like an English, a French or even an American garden, like from in the west more if you look at like the, like it would Be like comparing the east coast to comparing New Mexico.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. In the East Coast. Most of what we have is in Pennsylvania is like foresty. Yeah, it's. Yeah, you got to clear some land and stuff like that. But the dirt's pretty much good. You can kind of grow. We can grow some stuff in it. It's for the most part. But if you get out to like New Mexico, you're going to have area out there where like, it doesn't have enough water. It doesn't have these different things. There's infrastructure that you need to build, build to be able to have something like grass, to be able to have something like a hedge. And so the difference between the two is going to make a wild difference. So like when you go to England and you look at their gardens or like Longwood here in Pennsylvania, like, it's naturally. They're like, we have 20,000 acres. Okay. How big is the garden? It's 20,000 acres.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you go to a place like, you know, like Baghdad and you're like, oh, we have 20,000 acres. Well, how big is the garden? Well, okay, right now we're up to three acres. Because you have to build it slowly. And so you want to actually just like make the area. You have super quality. It's quality over quantity.

[A]

Also I think that weather wise, right? So, like, if I'm in England and I'm outside of the garden, I'm walking because I'm chilly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I got to get my movement up.

[B]

And also you don't get that many. You don't get many sunny days.

[A]

Exactly. So you got to be outside, you got to be moving.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But it, but if I'm in like Persia and the weather is beautiful and I'm just going to sit, sit and listen to the running water, you know, it is.

[B]

I heard a thing the other day. Somebody pointed out because yesterday in, in Pennsylvania was 75 degrees. And this guy made this video. Different person, this guy made a video. I saw it and he was like, listen, we only get 30 San Diego days a year. That's true in the Philadelphia region.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, oh, that's true. And I've been to San Diego. I went to San Diego a couple years ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And those people. Anybody in San Diego, you have no idea how.

[A]

Why are you living so well.

[B]

You have no idea how good you have it. Every day you have, you walk outside and it's 72 degrees and it's beautiful. And people say that anyone in Southern California, they complain when it rains because it rains like three times a year.

[A]

It's raining right now.

[B]

It's. Right now it's cloudy and miserable outside. But when you have these nice days, you have to take advantage of them. And it's the same thing, too. When it's hot, it's warmer. You're going to have more of a. When you go to a garden, you want to lay there and kind of take it in, maybe sit in the shade while you look at the plants.

[A]

Just lay in the sun.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. And so. And then culturally, too, you'll have that difference between, like, a Spanish garden, which also is going to have Islamic influences, because most of Spain was part of the early Islamic expansion. Right. So the Spanish went. And they also have a hotter climate, so they're going to have a different garden layout than France or England, which is going to.

[A]

Spanish gardens are so beautiful. I love that they do them on the interior of their houses. And then there's all the beautiful tiles.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they do a lot of hanging plants.

[B]

But that's because that's a common. Right there. You just described a combination of a cloister. Garth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Islamic garden mixed in with some of the Roman kitchen garden. It's like that. You can just see those three cultures, like, mashed together. And then it's Spanish.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, okay, Gardens during the Renaissance were adorned with sculptures, topiaries, and fountains.

[B]

You're talking in Europe.

[A]

Yes. Okay, okay, sorry. Back to Europe.

[B]

Back to Europe.

[A]

And again, so here, I'm telling you, in Europe, they're using sculptures, topiaries, which is hedges, the big ones that are, like, shaped like ducks and stuff.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Edward Scissorhands.

[A]

Yeah, Edward Scissorhands.

[B]

Edward Scissorhands.

[A]

And fountains, which they. They borrowed from the Islamic gardens.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And in the 17th century, they got really into hedge mazes.

[B]

I hate a hedge maze.

[A]

Oh, get the labyrinth out, baby. We're building a maze out of hedges.

[B]

Absolutely not. If you want to listen, I don't know how much information I want to put out there, but if you want to torture me, put me in a plant maze.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whether it be a hedge maze.

[A]

Maze at fall. This guy is pissed off.

[B]

No. Why would I want to do that? Yeah. I hate that. Because to me, if I'm like, listen, when I grew up and they'd give me the maze on a piece of paper and I'd be at the Pizza Hut and, like, get to the maze, the end, I could see the whole maze.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's not like a maze where I'm like I come up to an end and it's like right or left?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, fuck, how am I supposed to like this? It looks the same either direction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll take a right. Okay. I take a right. Now take a left, Take a left.

[A]

Dead end.

[B]

Haha. Idiot. That's how I feel. Yeah, I don't like that. I don't like a hedge maze. I hate a corn maze.

[A]

Corn mazes, I understand why they're fun. There's a certain age group where you're like teenagers think is fun.

[B]

They do? Yeah.

[A]

When I was a teenager, we used to think it was fun.

[B]

Pac Man's fun. No.

[A]

Maybe like go get lost.

[B]

No, I'm putting my kiss in the corn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, that's where the children of the corn are from. Crazed Amish dead eyed children will come out and murder you from the corn.

[A]

Thinking of like, okay, teenage me corn maze.

[B]

Were you making out in fields? Corn fields.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're out there kissing in corn fields?

[A]

Yeah. Because it was like we do with like the hayride.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And then it was like the haunted hayride where like the guys would jump out and scare you.

[B]

Yeah. With a chainsaw.

[A]

And then so you do the haunted hay ride. Everybody gets scared. And then you go do the at night corn maze. It's all ooky, spooky. And then it's like you probably got drunk before you got there. Like Mad Dog 2020 Strawberry.

[B]

Dial this back. Dial this back. Okay. Dial this back real fast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's at night time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're drunk in a cornfield with a boy or. Yeah, okay, I'm just, I'm talking about you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not talking about some hypothetical person out there in the comments who's currently writing up their entire corn maze makeup story and they're going to wait a month from now for us to read it on the after party, which you can find@pearl mania500.net our paywall parasocial Pearl Maniac podcast where we react to your comments. No, I'm not talking about them. I'm not talking about them. Okay, okay. What I'm talking about is you. So you were out here back in the day, 16 year old, 17 year old, Mrs. Pearl Mania. Back when you were Mrs. Maiden Name and Mania.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you were out there in the dark.

[A]

Yup.

[B]

At night. Cornfield.

[A]

Yup.

[B]

Kissing a boy.

[A]

Kissing boys. Smoking cigarettes.

[B]

That's evil.

[A]

Drinking malt liquor.

[B]

You're demonic.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I don't care about the malt liquor. The boy kissing or the liquor.

[A]

It's just being out and being in the corner.

[B]

Just being in the cornfield at night. It's creepy. That's where aliens land. That's where people go missing. Okay.

[A]

You want to.

[B]

We actually. Years ago, we were looking at a house. The house was across the street from a cornfield.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

It was a nice price. It was good. It was a good house.

[A]

No.

[B]

I pulled up. I didn't even stop. I called the realtor, was standing in front of the house waiting for us to tour it. I pulled up, looked at the realtor, pulled in the driveway, backed up, and I called them. I said, we're not doing it. I can't look out at a cornfield every single day. No, that's like the movie signs. Remember the movie signs?

[A]

I think I do.

[B]

Bad movie.

[A]

That was a bad movie, right? That was what? We don't like him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Specifically because his wife was rude to me when I was bartending.

[B]

And me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We both have had a bad experience. And Night Shyamalan's wife, or we even knew each other. Yeah. It was one of our bonding experiences. We were, like, talking, like, what they did, and we both realized we both worked for the same water nonprofit.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Both had a dumb time doing that. And then we both had a bad experience at M. Night Shyamalan's wife.

[A]

Fuck that bitch.

[B]

And then we kissed a little, and now here we are.

[A]

Corn maze.

[B]

No, it wasn't in the corn maze. It wasn't in a corn maze. It was on the steps of the Philadelphia Art Museum. Okay. And then we went inside, and we didn't ponder a single thing.

[A]

We actually go.

[B]

We walked and talked very fast.

[A]

That's not true.

[B]

We didn't. We learned so much about each other that day.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

This is about gardens.

[A]

This is about gardens and statues in the garden. Europeans started planting new flowers at this point because we're getting an influx of new flowers.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Boats are moving.

[B]

Yeah. It's the Renaissance. They're traveling around the world. They're doing the British Museum thing. We're like, oh, that's cool. Take it home.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They're doing some. They're doing some colonialism.

[A]

Colonizer shit.

[B]

Yeah, they're doing colonizer shit. Anything they see, they go, that's cool. And they bring it back. And then they accidentally devastate their ecology a little bit. Couple times over there. So they're inventing botany.

[A]

They start getting these new flowers. They get sunflowers from North America.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[A]

Marigolds okay. From Mexico and Central America. Oh, and tulips.

[B]

Okay, where the tulips from? Netherlands. You said earlier they're from the Netherlands.

[A]

Yeah. They're not from the Netherlands. No, no. They're from Kazakhstan.

[B]

Tulips are from Kazakhstan. Yeah.

[A]

Let's take a break. When we come back, I'm going to tell you all about where tulips come from.

[B]

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[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Offer only valid for new Factor customers with qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with factor. All right, we're going to continue our garden journey and now we're going to back to the land of tulips, which apparently is not the Netherlands.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not Holland.

[A]

It's not Holland.

[B]

It is Kazakhstan.

[A]

Kazakhstan in Central Asia.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is where tulips originate from.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

In the 16th century, the area was conquered by the Ottoman Empire and the tulip was immediately recognized as this beautiful and very unique flower and was taken along to Turkey where it was then introduced into the gardens of the richest dignitaries like we described.

[B]

Okay, wait, hold on. So tying back to where we were earlier, the Ottomans discovered tulips on their in lands that they conquer.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They brought them back to Turkey, specifically to their capital. Yeah. They start growing their own gardens. Yeah. Fast forward 200 years and they are now importing them from Holland.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because they are better at it over there. This feels very. This feels very like we've done this before. This feels a lot like certain technologies and things like that and like the way factories work.

[A]

So the tulip becomes extremely popular in Turkey, and it becomes a power. A symbol of power and wealth. The Ottoman sultans even began to wear tulips in their turbans. They would decorate their turbans with tulips.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

The modern name for tulip is the Latin Latinized version of the Turkish word for turban.

[B]

Oh, so it's not a joke.

[A]

No.

[B]

This. My entire life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My entire life, every time somebody has said tulips. Yeah. It's been that. It's been like a dirty joke.

[A]

No, it's not. This entire time, it looks like a turban. Like when you think of the round.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, no, tulip with the second you say it, I see it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like now I do see. Like, I can see. And even the way the flowers, like lip. But just because the fact its name was tulips.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's so many. There's so many stupid body limericks and things like that.

[A]

Turks themselves referred to the tulip as la, which is the name that arrived with the flower from Persia. In Arabic script, it literally means flower of God. As la is the written using exactly the same letters as Allah.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kind of like how dog and God is similar. The same letters in English.

[A]

No.

[B]

Because Kristi Noem killed God.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Is what I'm saying.

[A]

No. So here's the thing. Like you said, the. The Ottomans grab the tulips, take them back to Turkey. Turkey puts them in the gardens with all the dignitaries. When people are coming in, all the dignitaries from all over the world are seeing them. They're going, they're so beautiful. Where can I get one of those? They dig them up and give them the. The little bulb so they can take them back. Right. During all of that happening, the Dutch come in somehow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're like, you need to give us. You need to give me some of that fucking tulip flower. Right?

[B]

Yeah. The Dutch. The Dutch are like.

[A]

The Dutch crazy.

[B]

I know. I already know what this is.

[A]

And so. Hold on.

[B]

All right.

[A]

The thing is, is a lot of our listeners and viewers, when people think of tulips, they think of the wooden shoes, they think of the windmills.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The thing is, the Dutch get the tulips, they go nuts. And between 1634 and 1637, the Dutch golden age of tulips which is literally known as tulip mania.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

Was basically tulip trading that operated much like the futures market of today.

[B]

Yeah. So there's a crazy thing in this. Yeah. When the tulip bulb stuff happened. It's right around the invention of stocks. Yeah. At the same time. And I actually learned pretty recently like, like capitalism was basically invented in Holland. Yeah. Everything, by the way, just so you guys know, everything you hate about the world is the fault of the Dutch.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Everything is the Dutch's fault.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Just. Just one. Whenever you're sitting around you're like, whose fault is this? It's the Dutch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They invented. They invented stock trading.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they got so crazy with it that the local government had to actually institute hours, trading hours because they were staying up all night and it was like ruining the town because they would just be up all night, be like, all right and I'll sell you that and you give me this. And they were. It was like poke. It was like kids with Pokemon cards.

[A]

No, you're describing all the like the streamer boys that do the online gambling and NFT stuff.

[B]

100.

[A]

It's that they're up all night on just a little bit of meth.

[B]

Just a little bit of math. Just a little bit of math. A pinch of the math. Just a little touch. Just a pinch.

[A]

I'm not doing too much. Stay awake and trade out nft.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And so these boys back then, they were doing that. And so then the tulip side of things was like their nft.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, what's the thing where it was just a picture and they were selling the picture.

[B]

An nft. A non fungible token.

[A]

You're making up stuff.

[B]

I'm not. I'm not. They made up stuff. It was a picture of a bored ape.

[A]

Traders. Tulip traders had. They would commission well known artists to paint and put together picture albums of tulips called tulip books. And they were watercolor illustrations of the tulips that would grow out of the bulbs. And those are the pictures they would show each other and then sell them. And then sell them the bulbs. This is the nft.

[B]

So it's like when you buy. When you go buy seeds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's like a picture of the flower that's on the seed. But they didn't have photography back then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they were just paying the best Dutch artists because the Dutch masters are like incredible artists.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They could, they could draw very. And paint very lifelike. So they were painting these guys a pretty Picture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pretty penny to go and paint these pictures.

[A]

Yeah, right. And then they put them together in a book and then they would sit down with a prospective tulip buyer and they'd be like, let's go through the catalog. Like, it's a. Oh, what was the catalog that just flashed through my eyes? Never mind. I don't know where it went. So they have these catalogs, and these catalogs became incredibly popular. People started just getting the catalogs to, like, keep in their homes. It was almost like a coffee table book at a certain point, you know, like, they're like, this is just a book. Spiegel. That was. I was thinking, do you remember Spiegel? I don't know. My mom was super into Spiegel back in the day.

[B]

I know Dur. Spiegel. That's a German magazine.

[A]

No, Spiegel. It was like a. Like a clothing magazine that would come in your house.

[B]

I don't remember.

[A]

Leave in the comments if your parents had Spiegel magazine.

[B]

I have no idea what she was talking about.

[A]

Okay, so then the thing is about gardening in everyday life is you don't know if that seed or that bulb is going to grow.

[B]

No, you don't.

[A]

So this is like gambling, too. People are getting really into buying bulbs on the chance that they might grow.

[B]

So this is just like today's sponsor, Kelshi. No, I'm kidding. We're not. We're not. No, we won't take predictive market. Yeah, we are going to know now. I had to make the joke. I had to be very clear. That was a joke.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

But there's a lot having to do with these predictive market types of things kind of falling in that same thing where they're just like. There was a guys who bet a lot on the war. They said there was guys. Was it Polymarket or Kalshi? One of them. They had a thing that said the Supreme Leader of Iran would be out of office by March 1st. And then, you know, the US and Israel bombed him and killed him on February 28th.

[A]

Are they insider trading? Is that like Pete Hegseth making that bet?

[B]

Yeah. No, there were. There are. People are insider trading on it. It's not illegal yet or ever.

[A]

There is nothing illegal right now.

[B]

That's true. Yeah.

[A]

Laws aren't real.

[B]

Laws aren't real. Laws aren't real. Actually, maybe we should make that a shirt. Oh, laws aren't real.

[A]

I have to tell you something. We're not there yet because I have got a little bit more Ahead of it. But there's a part of this episode where I was like, I'm gonna make a shirt. By the end of this episode, I

[B]

want one that says laws aren't real.

[A]

Let me know.

[B]

Okay, okay. But real fast, real fast. Just, just so you know, this is a thing that actually recently happened.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They had a thing that listed up there that said supreme leader of Iran will leave office by. By March 1st got. March 28th, he was. February 28th, he is killed in an airstrike.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Polymarket and Kalsi said that they aren't going to pay out on it. And now all these people are arguing with them about it because they're like, well, you said we could bet on it. And they're like, well, that doesn't. That's not what we meant. And so there's this whole entire fight right now because all these degenerate gamblers are like, no, he was killed. Give me my money.

[A]

It's just like such a office.

[B]

But this is the type of like

[A]

they're me playing Scatteries where I'm like, no, that's not what that means.

[B]

But this is exactly whale watching.

[A]

Boat is just boat.

[B]

That's a whole thing. But there's a whole issue in this. It was like very similar to what these guys are doing though with the bulbs of. They're selling somebody this bulb and then the bulb doesn't grow. It's like, well, now do you. Who do you sue?

[A]

Listen, do you take it to court? The most sought after tulip in the Dutch market was the Semper Augustus, a white flower with red striations. That means that there's a little bit of red going through the.

[B]

Got little streaks of red.

[A]

Exactly. According to some sources, at one point in time There were only 12 bulbs available. It is said that the most expensive Semper Augustus bulb ever sold sold for 5,500 gilders in 1633, which I looked up the conversion for and would be that would translate to $500,000 USD in modern times.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

For one bulb.

[B]

Yeah. And now let's put a put up. Now you know what we're gonna do? We're have Mr. Third put up a random number for how much the highest paid NFT was sold for. And now here's the number of how much is worth today. Yep. All right, cool. Because I just thought, you guys know, just to remind everybody we're doing, we do the same shit constantly, over and over. Just change the technology. That's all it is.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Also I did another Little conversion that I found. Another little conversion I didn't do. It is that according to this, in 1633, the average worker's wages. Right. In Gilders, it would have been that one person would have had to work for 18.3 years to afford one of

[B]

these tulip bulbs of the Semper Augustus.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's crazy. That's crazy. That would be like a Jake Paul Pokemon card.

[A]

That guy loves a rug.

[B]

Pull a Jake Paul Pokemon card. Sorry. Yeah, we live in hell.

[A]

Anyway, suddenly, suddenly, one day in 1637, in an interrupt reversal of fortune, no new buyers could be found who were prepared to pay even any amount of price for the Dutch tool for the Dutch tulips. And the market collapsed.

[B]

Yeah. Because they didn't have circuit breakers back then. Or influencers.

[A]

Yeah. No. I think when I was reading this, I was like, this is very, like labubus. You know what I mean?

[B]

No, it's labus baby babies. Yes.

[A]

It was very cool. It was very hype. And then suddenly a younger person was like, ew.

[B]

But it's also one of those things where. But it's also one of those things where everybody has one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And once you have one, the FOMO is done.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's like, yeah, somebody who really likes tulips. Maybe they could have what, 25, 100. But at a certain point, you don't need to buy them anymore. Yeah, that's just like how it goes.

[A]

They keep growing underground.

[B]

They keep growing.

[A]

They duplicate.

[B]

You can grow them yourselves. You could. You could learn how to harvest the stool ups yourself. You could do all these different types of things. Somebody figures out.

[A]

You can pay to have them hand closed with silk. And threads.

[B]

And threads. Or the other side of it too, is you also have people who then start learning how to mass produce them, which also lowers the price. Right. Because you start having people build factory farms to be able to push out,

[A]

which is what the Dutch did. I want to. I just want to, like, circle back quick. Is the Dutch really learned how to factory farm tulips, basically, and produce them in mass, which is why that sultan I told you about the very beginning of this episode. And even though the tulips are more native to where he's from, he was growing them there, but he had to reach out to the Dutch because he wanted specific colors and he wanted such a large quantity that even though they're native to where he's from, they were the mass production line.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's like. And that happens in America all the time, where there's like things that are native to the Americas, but we have to like reach out to Europe or something.

[B]

Or China.

[A]

Or China to have it shipped back in. Yeah, because they're just mass producing on a scale we can't.

[B]

And that's why we're putting a 15% tariff on everything, folks, because it should be mass produced here. And with all the money we're going to save with this tariff, we can go to a double war. And then I can get a tortoise with a candle. I want five American tortoise candles on every street.

[A]

Do not let him listen to this episode.

[B]

You should.

[A]

He is going to get tortoises.

[B]

I have an idea. Why don't we get uber robots? The uber robots put a candle on it. You know they're in the streets of Philadelphia now. I know you did. You made sure you didn't bring up Philadelphia once. This entire episode. I'm going to bring it up repeatedly.

[A]

Listen, why don't we take a break and then when we come back, I want to talk about my arch nemesis in gardening.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

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[A]

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[C]

Thanks to Skyrizi. There's nothing on my skin and that means everything.

[A]

Nothing is everything.

[C]

Ask your doctor about skyrizi, the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic in psoriasis. Visit skyrizi.com or call 1-866-skyrizi to learn.

[B]

And we're back. And this episode is now completely about Philadelphia.

[A]

No, it's not. We're going back to gardens. This is an episode about gardening. Okay, so there's a type of garden called cottage gardens.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

These are my favorite kind of gardens. These emerged in popularity during the Elizabethan times. Okay, now according to the late 19th century legends, these gardens were originally created by the workers who lived in the cottages. And these gardens would provide food, food and herbs. And they put flowers out for decoration, also for the pollinators. Right. You have the bumblebees and butterflies. Farm workers were provided these cottages and a small garden, about an acre, where they could grow food, keep pigs and chickens.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

So that's the idea of a cottage garden.

[B]

If you ever go to England, you go to Stratford Upon Avon, you can go see the cottage where William Shakespeare lived.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they have like those type of gardens you're talking about now. They don't have the pigs, they don't have the chickens. They don't have those area of the fences. But when you look at just kind of like these big almost like bushes of flowers, and you could see kind of like the herbs popping up and doing those things. And it's not as clean as you look. Of like a modern garden where it's like a little tuft over here of like, this is a sprig of this mulch.

[A]

Just mulch around each plant. They don't do that. No, no, this is all wild.

[B]

Yeah, it's all wild and it's all kind of grown together. And like the gardener, the person living there knows that this little particular leaf over here, this is rosemary, this is thyme. But like, to us, a modern person who maybe doesn't know gardening that well. Not you. To me, I would look at it and go, oh, you got a big old mess of plants over there.

[A]

Colors. I like your colors.

[B]

That's a lot of. That's a big old mess of plants.

[A]

Okay. So these authentic cottage gardens would have had beehives, livestock, like pigs, and style. During the Elizabethan times, though, they people were becoming more prosperous. Right. So they're getting more money and so less and less that they need to grow plants and vegetables that they were going to eat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they started growing more flowers. Right. And so they still. They still kept certain flowers that had practical uses. So, like, violets were known to chase off certain pests. Calendulas could be used in cooking and medicine. But there is a steep rise in the beautification of homes. So this is where we're seeing the flow come back. Because again, we started with gardens being really about being aesthetically pleasing.

[B]

Yeah. The ancient times. Then they gotta survive.

[A]

Then you had a survival mode, just trying to survive, coming back.

[B]

All right.

[A]

It's aesthetically cutesy. Utsi. Right.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Now, these beautiful gardens, in my mind, the best type of garden, were about to become much less popular again. And not because people couldn't afford them. It was because we were, as a culture, going to start growing the Most wasteful bullshit possible.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Lawns.

[B]

Oh, this is.

[A]

We're going to talk about lawns and I'm going to be mad the whole time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Lush, manicured lawns are deeply rooted in the aristocracy of Europe. They originated as a luxury of the European elites. The concept of a lawn as a landscape feature would be at a manor house. It was not merely an aesthetic choice, but an extreme symbol of wealth and social standing. Okay. This was wealthy people in their houses stunting on the poor and showing dominance over nature and those around them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a display of economic might.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Through lawns.

[B]

It literally was them. This is the. Having a lawn back in a time where every inch of arable land, every inch of growable land was someplace where you should be growing food to help your family, your community and your. Your country basically survive.

[A]

And the pollinators and critters and all

[B]

that different stuff, but like, that was, like part of it. Having that just be grass or just go fallow is the equivalent of lighting a cigar with a hundred dollar bill. Yeah. Every day on camera.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like that. And then. And then hitting post like that is the equivalent of it back then.

[A]

Yeah. Emotionally and metaphysically, these green expanses require an enormous amount of labor to maintain far beyond natural landscapes. The aristocrats employed extensive staff of gardeners to hand cut the lawns. There were no lawnmowers back then, like, on hands and knee with like, basically scissors, hand cutting the lawns. Or they would use grazing animals, like sheep to keep the lawns at aesthetically pleasing lengths.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But a lot of times it was mix of both because, like, you can't really decide how much the sheep is going to eat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you have to go back in with scissors. Well.

[B]

And then you have to have somebody else falling around. Pick up all the poop. Yeah.

[A]

You can't have the poop out there.

[B]

Yeah, I can't leave the poop out there.

[A]

The reliance on manual labor or animal grazing underscored not only the lawn's beauty. Beauty. But also the wealth of the land owner. Okay. The average people use whatever land, like you were saying, in more utilitarian fashion.

[B]

Well, because they're trying again, trying to survive. We're talking very close to a time, like near the Irish potato famine and things like that, where people, the. The peasant class are living as subsistence farmers to be able to take care of these places, which is why they need to have cottage gardens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the rich people are like, I don't need a car. Cottage garden. Yeah. I take your Shit. Because you live on my land. That's why you have a cottage. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So, you know, the average person's sustaining livestock, growing crops. And I just wrote myself a little note that these wealthy people are just walking around making dad jokes with their hands on their hips, looking at their lawn.

[B]

What are you doing over there? What are you doing over there, Chester?

[A]

Okay, so let's jump ahead.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's 1776. America just said you to the British. But also because we're America, we're like, no, but like, do you still think we're cool?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We did want the Europeans to like us a lot.

[A]

America wants to stunt on the British. Like, look how good we're doing without you guys. Right. But the thing is, Americans weren't gardening in a fashionable way at the time. So the. And by that, I mean the colonizers, the colony people.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because the indigenous people are still gardening. They're still doing forest style gardening. It's known as like the three sisters or the seven sisters. I forget.

[B]

Seven sisters.

[A]

Seven sisters, yes. So, like, they're still gardening the way they. In America, the way that America should be gardening. Right, yeah.

[B]

And it's, it's, it's much more sustainable. But it also was about looking at the entire land. And they're using migration.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

The entire time. To make sure that, hey, it's too cold up here. So we move over here and we've planted some things down here. And now that we've come back, now we can pick through that.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that's not what the, the colonies are doing.

[B]

No, the colonists are. They're like, oh, this is my plot right here.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I go nowhere. I'm in Boston. Yeah.

[A]

So the Europeans who are visiting America, because again, there's still people visiting even after 1776.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They would go see the America and they would go back home to Europe and they were making fun of America's gardens.

[B]

Mostly Ben Franklin.

[A]

It would. Yeah, mostly Ben Franklin.

[B]

But they would walk up to Ben Franklin, be like, wow, look at you, country bumpkin.

[A]

I went over there, I saw your gardens in quotes.

[B]

Hey, yeah, I walked past that.

[A]

A garden.

[B]

I walked past some of that pig shit you call a house.

[A]

The American homestead was described by Europeans as rudimentary and unsophisticated at best. They frequently, in their letters and descriptions, call mentioned the gross yard birds, which is what, how they describe chickens? Listen to me. Yardbirds. That's so funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

These Americans with their gross yardbirds.

[B]

Well, it's also one of Those things as well. In America, we did have. We had an aristocracy, but that aristocracy was a business class. Aristocracy versus the ancient noble houses of Europe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you didn't have as many places until much later where you'd had somebody like that place down in North Carolina. When you look at some of, like, the Carnegie or you look at some of these other, like, guys. Huge opulent wealth, who can then buy these grand estates and all that different stuff. We went. The duponts, all these different people. Like, we didn't have that yet. That took. That takes, like, 100 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For them to have the money, infrastructure, and power to be able to build these massive gardens.

[A]

So this portrayal that was going around Europe did not sit well with the elites that were in America. Yeah. They wanted to showcase how sophisticated America was and how successful they were without Europe. Because we're. We're. We're Americans. But the same time, American diplomats are traveling to Europe at the same time. Right. So, like, there's a crisscross from the ocean the whole time.

[B]

Cultural exchange.

[A]

The diplomats, while they were over in Europe, started seeing these lawns. You ever seen a lawn? They got into it, dude.

[B]

They got into lawns.

[A]

Lawn envy. Keeping up with the Joneses big time.

[B]

More like the Louis.

[A]

Okay, that's true.

[B]

Yeah, the Louis, the 14th and 16th.

[A]

So they are so impressed by these grand manicured lawns that when they come back, they're like, we gotta do this. And so lawns began to pop up at America's grandest home. So we have a few wealthy people, and if you're wealthy, you're getting a lawn installed. And one of the most famous lawns to be installed early was the lawn at the White House itself.

[B]

Mm. I think that's very interesting that Americans, American diplomats are traveling to Europe and inspiring revolutions against the rich and powerful nobles who people hate because they have lawns. And then the Americans are traveling back and be like, guys, we should grow lawns. Hey, have you guys thought about doing exactly what all the rich people are doing over there? Yeah. Because, like, it seems to be going great over there. Yeah, we should do that exactly over here.

[A]

I don't like their politics. Yeah. But their horticulture.

[B]

I don't like the fact that they wear crowns and the cape. Stupid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I don't know about this, but talking about the White House. The White House is a plantation home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For those of you guys who don't know, if you take a look at the White House before the East Wing was torn down, and I'm Looking at the west wing, but just the baseline, the middle part, which is the true White house, which was built using slave labor in the South. It was designed to be a plantation home.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And if you need to picture it surrounded by cotton fields, because that's how it's supposed to be. If you look at the White House and you look at red dead redemption to that house that you go up to, that's in the south. That's in like the Louisiana area with the willow trees or the very classic ones with all the different places. That is a plantation home. It's the same thing. It just doesn't have the tree line driveway that you're approaching.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It doesn't have these sort of things. But it was designed to be a southern plantation home. It was designed to be inside of a slave district. That's exactly what it was this entire time. And so that view of it was always there. So the fact that they decided to have a grand lawn around it was almost. It was almost a. What's the word I'm looking for? Almost a compromise.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To be like. Because they. It. It was supposed to. The way it was designed was supposed to be surrounded in their minds. In their minds. That's what I mean. In their minds. And so the fact that they did lawn was kind of like, look, it's plantation, but it's not.

[A]

Yeah. And they were like, maybe. Maybe we should have celebrities get married here.

[B]

Look at the plantation. Celebrities love a plantation.

[A]

Haley Bieber.

[B]

Hailey Bieber loved a plantation. Hailey Bieber looks at the White House and goes, let's do a wedding.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so you already went over this, but in my notes, the. The expansive lawns that were coming up in America did require a lot of labor.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Usually and always enslaved individuals were tasked at cutting the lawns and maintaining the lawns.

[B]

Yeah. Because it's, again, it's tedious work. Yeah, it's very. You're sitting there with like, literally scissors and like, we're talking about like 1800 scissors.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're not going to be clean and sharp like the ones that you're getting from the store today. These are going to be made by literal blacksmiths, and they're on their hands and knees cutting the lawn. Yeah. And doing that type of stuff. It's just fucking bullshit.

[A]

In the United States right now, lawns cover about 40 million acres. That is as much space as Colorado.

[B]

The entirety of Colorado. Yes. If we broke it up and spread it across the entirety of the US

[A]

lawns, they consume about 9 billion gallons of Water daily.

[B]

That's such a waste. Think of all the AI we could power with that.

[A]

Introduce a myriad of toxins to our ecosystem.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And offer no refuge for the local wildlife of birds, bees, bugs, and critters.

[B]

Funny thing about the toxins.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

RFK said they're fine now.

[A]

Oh, wait a minute.

[B]

Right. With the Roundup.

[A]

Oh, right. He's like, no, Roundup's not that bad.

[B]

Yeah, it's not that bad. After spending his entire last bunch of years screaming about Roundup, Trump got a little payoff from the Roundup people. And then he went, actually, Roundup's good for you. Drink a little. Have a little Roundup.

[A]

Put it in your pool.

[B]

Put it in your pool.

[A]

You should go wrong.

[B]

Round it up.

[A]

I think it's called Aaron Brockovich. No, she'll show up.

[B]

She'll show up. It's fine. You can't sue about it because that's what I said in my executive order.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

And then. Yeah. And then made, you know, it made Mad Rob Schneider.

[A]

Wait, what?

[B]

Rob Schneider got mad at RFK Jr. For going back on his word. But then again, we're going back on a lot of words today, folks.

[A]

First thing is you got to know words.

[B]

Yeah, look at that. I have the best words in my head. Kofei. Remember that one.

[A]

All right. What could get in between an American and their gorgeous, disgusting lawns?

[B]

What could it be?

[A]

War.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

Nothing is everything.

[C]

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[B]

All right, Mrs. P. You mentioned it. War.

[A]

War. So war gardens are food gardens for the defense of America.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Where vegetables, fruit and herbs are planted at private residences and public parks. So that's a war garden.

[B]

Okay, got it. What's war?

[A]

Well, we're going to start at World

[B]

War I. Oh, okay.

[A]

The U.S. government's government encouraged people to plant war gardens not only to supplement their rations, but also to boost morale in that gardeners could feel empowered by their contribution of labor and be rewarded with produce.

[B]

Yeah, it's kind of like when you feel, when you feel good about recycling a can, right? Like a can of soda. You're like, I'm doing my part. I'm taking care of the environment. Reduce, reuse, recycle. And then you ignore the fact that Tehran is being covered in black acid rain.

[A]

So In March of 1917, during World War I, the U.S. national War Garden Commission was created and launched the War Garden Campaign. Food production had fallen dramatically During World War I, especially in Europe, where agricultural labor had been recruited into the military and a lot of the remaining farms were devastated by conflict.

[B]

Yeah. It was all no man's land and destruction and melted and bad.

[A]

And so this campaign, the National War Garden Commission, the campaign they started was to promote the cultivation of gardens on all available private and public lands. And it worked. It resulted in over 5 million gardens planted.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So people are. If they have a lawn or a plot of land, they are starting to grow war gardens.

[B]

Yeah. And again, this isn't just to help America. This is also so that way we could keep the price down here and we could then ship food to our allies like France and England especially, who are soldiers and to the soldiers. But I'm saying. But we could ship stuff overseas.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we could go help our allies as well. This wasn't Just about. Because I think most people would think it's just about here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

U.S. president Woodrow Wilson.

[B]

Boo.

[A]

Said, quote, food will win the war. Listen, I'm telling you, there are so many propaganda quotes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From this point forward.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That one of them's going on a shirt.

[B]

Well, here's.

[A]

I don't know what it is. You let me know. You let me know the comments. Let me know. Something's going on a shirt. I got so many propaganda quotes while I was doing this research that I was giggling like I don't even know how to describe it. It's so funny the way that they propagandize this for gardening.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now I want to propagandize gardening because I want people to grow gardens.

[B]

Yeah. Because they're gonna grow corn. Like bullets.

[A]

No, but the.

[B]

The thing about Woodrow Wilson. First thing, just everyone knows. Vehement racist. But the other part about this is that the phrase food will win the war is how every war is won.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you read something like Sun Tzu or you listen to, like, anything about Napoleon the First. It's all logistics. Yeah. That's the reason why what's happening right now with the United States and Iran is so insane, because there clearly was no logistical plan. So, like, how, like, one of the baselines with Napoleon, one of the things that he did better than anybody else was made sure that his soldiers had boots, because soldiers would walk their boots through and they'd fall apart. And a soldier without boots can't march as far. Another thing was also a big thing is just feeding them, making sure they have a meal. And, like, again, these are the types

[A]

of things that you just said earlier that P. Hegseth spent a lot of money on crabs for our soldiers.

[B]

Yes. Here, not over there. And not having things like MREs, not having things like all these other different logistical items that you need. And so that's how, like, this thing is. Like when the Iran war kicked off and all of those Americans and influencers were stranded in Dubai. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like a smart leader, a smart wartime. Anyone would have plans logistically to already have that out, because that's a huge part of propaganda that you fucked up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, now you have to have Andrew Tate drive across the desert and people are calling him the Lawrence of Dry Labia.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah. People called Andrew Tate's Tate Lawrence of Dry Labia. Because when.

[A]

Funniest fucking thing I've ever heard.

[B]

When Dubai got shut down, Andrew Tate wasn't there, but he's being paid as an influencer to Push Dubai. And he was screaming that everyone fleeing Dubai is a coward. So he flew to Saudi Arabia and then tried to cross the desert of Saudi Arabia from Riyadh and then got arrested and like, held again. He got arrested for trying to like illegally cross the border.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

And so everyone just kept making fun of him and they're like, you're a restless idiot. We hate you.

[A]

So to support the home garden effort.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

This is about, this is about gardening in World War I. Right now, the United States School Garden army was launched through the Bureau of Education and was funded by the War Department.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I'm going to say this again. The United States School Garden Army. So this is the ussga. The army of School Gardens.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is launched through the Bureau of Education and funded by the War Department. The United States School Garden, the ussga. Woodrow Wilson described it as, or he described the gardening that was going on with these children as, quote, just as real and patriotic an effort as the building of ships or the firing of cannons.

[B]

Yeah. Because those are our child soldiers in the war on food.

[A]

Yeah. No, but literally.

[B]

Literally. Yeah. But it's also number one, it's great propaganda for the kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It makes the kids feel like they're doing something that is just as important. It also gets them used to following orders.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it makes them part of logistics, supply chain. And literally what he was saying, especially about like building ships, like that is part of what this entire thing in the World War I and World War II, America is the factory of the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At that point, because everything else is devastated, everything else is blown up. So we had to build stuff and we had to sell it.

[A]

The Bureau of Education distributed manuals and guides across the nation to children, children ages 9 to 15. By armistice, armistice Day, a large number of American children had answered the call and become, quote, unquote, soldiers of the soil.

[B]

Hey, soldiers.

[A]

Soldiers of the soil.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

That's a good one, right?

[B]

Ah, the Soldiers of Soil is pretty cool.

[A]

Pretty cool.

[B]

That's a pretty good one.

[A]

The School Garden army operated like a military unit. Like, of course.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Children were, were reminded that a good gardener kept his or her tools clean and in top notch condition, just like a good soldier.

[B]

This is my shovel. This is my gun. Sorry, that's just, I'm just picturing them like marching with little shovels.

[A]

Literally. Yes.

[B]

And like the little, what's the little three pronged little rake thing you have?

[A]

Yeah, it's like a hand rake.

[B]

Yeah, hand rake. Yeah, yeah. Imagine them like Sharpening their hand rake. And they got. They have a necklace of artichokes, like, ears just sharpening. Yeah, No, I was over there. I was in the shit. The garlic battle of. Battle of the garlic is just so crazy.

[A]

They were also given instructions on how to avoid strains and spots. Sprains while weeding, as well as being mindful of stepping on seedlings.

[B]

Gotta protect the seedlings.

[A]

No, this. This was about landmines. They were teaching them to. To walk lightly in the idea of, like, don't step on the little baby plants. But they phrased it in a way that it was like, don't step on the landmines.

[B]

Oh, that's so smart and crazy. Yeah, but it's also. Yeah, okay. I mean, sure, yeah, it's crazy, but It's World War I. Yeah. There's a lot going on. They're sending guys directly into machine gun nests, and Americans are getting charged with war crimes for using shotguns. Okay, just so you guys know that

[A]

Wilson put sheep out on the front lawn of the White House to graze the lawn.

[B]

Oh, yeah, there's a famous picture of it. Yeah, famous picture of the sheep grazing on the White House lawn. Also Teddy Roosevelt, I think he had cattle.

[A]

Yeah, probably.

[B]

Yeah. There was a bunch. There was a bunch of presidents who came in. They were like, this should be more utilitarian.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's how they use food to win World War I.

[A]

Let's talk about World War II. You ready?

[B]

The sequel.

[A]

We are in World War II.

[B]

Middle of the trilogy.

[A]

Guess what.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I hope you put your lawn back down. Dig it up.

[B]

Dig it back up.

[A]

Lawns are gone again, baby. Because here's the thing that happened in World War I. War Garden. But guess who won World War I? We did. So they're victory gardens now, baby.

[B]

Also, it's because of woods and charge. I like doing this. He loved doing this V for victory rebranding. Yeah.

[A]

Victory gardens.

[B]

Because V for victory.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

And then the 60s, they changed the.

[A]

I got to tell you, some more propaganda and slogans are about to go really hard.

[B]

Okay, go ahead.

[A]

Okay. The USDA started calling upon citizens to start gardening again.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Quote, sow the seeds of victory.

[B]

Sow the seeds of victory.

[A]

So the seeds of victory in your victory garden. Around one third of the vegetables produced by the United States came from victory gardens.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It was emphasized to the American home front, urbanites and suburbanites, that the produce from their gardens would help lower the price of vegetables needed by the U. S. War Department to feed the Troops, Thus saving money that could be spent elsewhere on military.

[B]

Yeah. If you grow a potato, we can afford a bullet. And now instead, we tell you starve. We need the Tomahawks.

[A]

Here's two. Here's. I got two good propaganda quotes that were used on the big painting flyers.

[B]

Okay. The big. The big. The big paper flyers.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. 1. Our food is our fighting. Pretty good one. I like that one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. With this one. Every garden, a munition plant.

[B]

That's. Bro. That's pretty.

[A]

Every garden, a munition plant.

[B]

I feel like corn as a bullet is also, like, the same thing, but

[A]

corn is really hard to grow.

[B]

Okay, well, I just. I was just thinking of things that you could.

[A]

Well, I was thinking about, like, at home, gardeners wearing a cute shirt while they're outside gardening. And they're not going to be growing corn because corn is pretty hard to grow.

[B]

What about tomatoes?

[A]

Tomatoes are. They're easier than corn.

[B]

Okay. Tomato grenade.

[A]

That's pretty. Or artichoke looks like a grenade.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Every artichoke is a grenade.

[A]

Eleanor Roosevelt planted a victory garden on the White house Salon in 1943. Eleanor's Garden served as a political message of the patriotic duty of the garden. Our food is fighting. That was her slogan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For the. Our food is fighting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even though Eleanor did not tend her own garden.

[B]

No. Why would she.

[A]

I love that she had a slogan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Associated with the White House.

[B]

And she definitely said, like, this. Our food is fighting. Yeah, like that. She had that.

[A]

But I'm picturing, like, a little carrot fighting with a little head of broccoli.

[B]

This is literally what she did. She came out. They stood there. All right, Mrs. Roosevelt, we're gonna get the newsreel ready. And they got the newsreel all set up. Right. And she came out. She stood there with the pitchfork, right Click, click, click. She did the pitchfork shot. She was like, all right, Everything good? Good. All right. Everything great. All right. And then the second the guys, like, put the cameras down, she literally just dropped it. Yeah. She's it. The rake just fell. And she was. Okay, I'm gonna leave now with Betsy and all the other girls.

[A]

Okay. So here's what happens. She makes this garden.

[B]

She.

[A]

Other people are working at the office. The. But the Department of Agriculture objected to Eleanor Roosevelt's installation of a victory garden on the White House grounds, fearing that it would cause such momentum that it would actually hurt the food industry. So we're talking about the big veg lobby.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The big veg lobbyist.

[B]

Big Ag.

[A]

Big, Big Ag is like, we can't have you doing this at the White House because it'll hurt the food industry. That's crazy.

[B]

It's not crazy, because this is the same exact thing happened but in our lifetime. Michelle Obama had a vegetable garden on the White House.

[A]

That's true. Yep.

[B]

Michelle Obama had a vegetable garden and set up a whole thing. And that was like, hey, kids, we should. Our kids should eat more vegetables. Our school lunches should be healthier. Yeah. Maybe we should put less processed stuff and everything. And you know what happened?

[A]

Communism.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Socialist. And Republicans. Big agriculture. And all the chemical companies came together and they attacked Michelle Obama, called her an asshole and told her she was fucking evil. And they screamed about it for eight years. And then you know what they did?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They all had to back RFK Jr who said the exact same shit until he got into fucking power and then turned his back on all that stuff.

[A]

Stuff. Yeah. But now the broccoli, it can be sprayed with the stuff that they put on nonstick pans.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

P. They're spraying the broccoli with pizzas.

[B]

Yeah. PS can be sprayed on broccoli because. Listen. No, because broccoli, babe. I don't know. This broccoli is a haircut that our Nazi youth at Doge needs to have as they go. And they slash programs like schools where we would put a victory garden if we were in World War three.

[A]

We should put a victory garden in schools anyway.

[B]

We should.

[A]

The Abbott Elementary. Remember, they have the gardening episodes. Yeah, I love that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So while victory gardens are portrayed as patriotic duty across the nation by the government, they. They polled Americans about them. And only 20% of Americans mentioned patriotism. 80% were in it for the fresh food.

[B]

Yeah. And. And savings.

[A]

And savings.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

They were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. America and all that.

[B]

Yeah. Have you seen the price.

[A]

I need some fucking onions.

[B]

Have you seen the price of turnips?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is crazy. I went down the market. The turnip was.

[A]

You got to trade the turnips, like in the tulip market.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. The stock market from Animal Crossing. Yeah. No, but legit. But also, it was like they went back to medieval pedestrian tree. They're like, I have this turnip. I'll give you one turnip for two radishes. Okay. But two radishes are the equivalent of three banana. Actually, probably one banana. Yeah, one banana, but, yeah, that's the one. But it's very interesting, though, because again, there's all these talks whenever we talk about Communications. Right. When it comes to politics, there'll be talks about like all these different things that people care about looking at right now. Modern day. Yeah, I want to bring it back to modern day, but I think we should. But there's a lot of talk about people being like, oh my God, Trump turned his back on no new wars. Or he's doing all these different things about all these different stuff. When the reality is none of these people give a shit about any of those slogans. They care about the fact that their gas prices went up. They care about the fact that they're ghost free pipes when it finally hits them in their selfish little pocket. Yeah. That's the moment they fucking care about.

[A]

I'm leaving the mega movement because gas prices and I'm like, they're shooting people in the street.

[B]

Yeah. You didn't care.

[A]

Wasn't that wasn't a deal breaker.

[B]

You didn't care about that.

[A]

Filling your. Your shitty car.

[B]

Yeah. Post your TikTok again there. I'm a triple trumper. But now he's gone too far. Now, now he went too far. Everybody had a problem.

[A]

Everybody being so.

[B]

What are you talking about? January 6th of what year?

[A]

Okay, so the fruits and vegetables harvested at in these home gardens and community plots was estimated to be 9 to 10 million tons. That's how much vegetables were grown in America. That's a lot of vegetables by home farmers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It. It equaled all commercial production of fresh vegetables.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You know what I mean? That's how many gardens were being grown.

[B]

So Americans were able to. The American people were able to copy and basically double American industry at the time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Another slogan about it, grow your own, can your own was a slogan that started at the time that referred to families growing and canning their own food from the Victory Gardens. Because obviously canning was very necessary to preserve food.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But they also knew that a lot of people didn't know how to do canning. So they started get mass producing booklets on how to can. And that was the slogan on the front of it.

[B]

Mrs. P. Were these just in suburban gardens or like rural areas?

[A]

It was everywhere.

[B]

They did it in the cities.

[A]

Yeah. They did it in the urban gardens a lot of times. So like they were like, oh, you have a small plot or like if you just only have area for pots, they would, you know, obviously suggest that you still grow vegetables or herbs or things like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But in the major cities, a lot of big community gardens.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

So it was like also like in

[B]

public parks and stuff.

[A]

In Public parks. But like what they do in Britain where people would get specific plots.

[B]

Oh, you'd have a little area where you do it. Well, yeah, there's community gardens around here too. Where, where they do, like it for the churches and stuff like that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it looked like that a lot.

[B]

Yeah, got it.

[A]

So also, another one that I found, another slogan I found when I was doing research about this specific area where they were doing the canning. Food is ammunition, don't waste it. And I was like, are you implying that shooting bullets are like, you don't want to waste a bullet?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like, food is ammunition. Don't waste it. And I'm like, that's dark, dude. That's really dark when you pull that apart. That's pretty dark.

[B]

That's a dark slogan.

[A]

Okay, okay. So in Japanese internment camps.

[B]

Oh, oh, oh. All right. Yep.

[A]

Listen, we don't avoid history. We talked about it.

[B]

No, you're right, you're right.

[A]

Government officials encourage victory gardens to promote self sufficiency and conserve resources. Mostly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Individuals who were previously farmers before internment were tasked with growing vegetable gardens within camp boundaries. The movement towards victory gardens did not serve patriotic purposes, in this case for the Japanese people. Instead, the garden supplemented government issued meals with fresh vegetables and offered them the opportunity to grow culturally relevant vegetables.

[B]

Yeah. Because they weren't. The government literally wasn't giving them enough food.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So they had to grow their own food. They were handed some seeds, they were handed some dirt and maybe a hoe and a shovel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they said, you can do this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy. That's. And right now, speaking of constant. With the Japanese internment camps or the internment camps that we have, like Dilley center down in Texas, they don't have enough food or enough water. Like, it's. Again, this is the story of things happening over and over again. But you'll be fucked if you expect the Trump administration to hand them seeds because they're going to keep pretending like this is only a temporary thing.

[A]

After World War II, many Japanese American families in California who had overcome the forced incarceration.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Went on to establish prominent fruit and vegetable farms. And so when I was doing this research, I was like, oh, that's really super interesting that they were like, we're like, you know what? We have all this knowledge now. Let's go start farms. And so I looked up some of these really prominent Japanese farms. There's Tanaka Farms, which grows strawberries, melons, and also hosts baby goat yoga. I look at their website.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Kotake Farms, which grows Strawberries. They also host a yearly. Oh, God, I'm gonna say this wrong. Mochi suki. Mochi suki, which is called rice pounding, which is a traditional Japanese New Year event where all the community comes together and steamed glutenous rice is pounded into mochi. Oh, I want to go there.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There's the Akita family farm, which grows apples, berries, pears, peaches, plums, nectarines, and Napa Cab. So these farms are still going today. Yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

And.

[B]

And a reason why a bunch of this happened was also because when the Japanese were interned, a lot of them lost their businesses, they lost their land, they lost everything because it was just taken from them, mainly by the people in the communities that they were taken from. It's the same thing that we're seeing happening with the people who are being interned right now. A lot of them, their cars are just abandoned in Minnesota, like, covered in a street band of cars. So it's that. It's that same sort of thing. But this is. That's fucking crazy. But enough about modern day Mrs. P. Yeah. Because again, I keep dragging it back because you keep talking about. We're talking about World War II, and I'm thinking about World War 3. How did the Victory Gardens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How did the people feel about them?

[A]

People love them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm gonna tell you something. The Americans, they did what Americans do. They started competitions.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, that's right. Local communities started having festivals and competitions to showcase the produce people were growing in their gardens.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So you know how there's, like, the big summer fairs where you can see, like, this is the best tomato.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And Sally wore the blue ribbon.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

For the best pumpkin. Right. Like that. That started because of Victory Gardens.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Because communities were so engaged with gardening, plus they had community gardens at a certain point that they. That, again, the Americans were just like. They start competition.

[B]

They basically had to create leaderboard.

[A]

No, but literally.

[B]

They had to literally create a leaderboard. Yeah, that's 100% what they did. And they're like, and I need an achievement ribbon. I need an achievement ribbon, and I need a leaderboard. Because we don't have video games. We have pumpkins.

[A]

Pumpkins are hard to grow around.

[B]

Pumpkins are hard to grow.

[A]

The pests. Okay. The garden movement united local communities under these showcases. Right. Of course, in all of this unity, they could not let go of racism.

[B]

God damn it.

[A]

So they had separate African American award winners at these harvest shows. So they would give out separate awards to black people.

[B]

They had. They Segregated pumpkins.

[A]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

They. Segregated pumpkins and apples and. And whatever.

[A]

Corn pie or whatever. Yeah.

[B]

All that different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is fucking stupid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is like saying that. Oh, oh, the. The trans person. You can't let a trans person play pool. Like, this is the same level.

[A]

Yeah. Because they might come in tie at fifth. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, I know. This is so fudgeing insane. Okay, okay. So I'm just so fudgeing. Upsetting during. Every time you talk about something from the past, like, that's pretty nice. And I'm like, great. And you're like, by the way, racism, internment camps, genocide. It's just always a little bit sprinkled right in there.

[A]

Not a little bit, it's not.

[B]

I know, I know.

[A]

During the heat of World War II. So, like, when World War II is really going.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. The U.S. department of Agriculture. Remember I talked about them earlier?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Had to shut the fuck up because they had to go out and create a book that summarized everything to the American populace about what they would need to know about gardening.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And this was done in order to increase the production of crop crops from Victory Gardens because food shortages got so bad on the war front that it was becoming an incredible problem. And they created a brochure called the ABCs of Victory Gardens, which showed how to properly grow, harvest and preserve a variety of crops. Which is funny because remember they got mad at Eleanor Roosevelt for having this garden. And they're like, hey, this is going to hurt our bottom line.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But only a few. Few years into the war, they were like, we gotta mass produce the thing. These people need to go, we need to grow peppers, guys.

[B]

Yeah. But they need onions, guys.

[A]

Think about the.

[B]

Think about the former. Why don't you think about the former?

[A]

They're like, he can't handle it. We need more.

[B]

Yeah. Meanwhile, the farmers themselves are voting to cut a usaid, and now they can't sell their shitty rights to anybody.

[A]

Yeah. Literally, the thing that happened. Soybeans.

[B]

Yeah. They can't sell the soybeans to anyone because we had to enter into a trade war.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's how that goes.

[A]

That sounds fine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's all my research on gardening and war and how it is inexplicably connected to politics. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Because everything is politics. Everything is politics.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Always is. And that's the part that sucks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because sometimes you want to take your

[A]

mind off a thing Sometimes you say, I know what, I'll do an episode on my favorite hobby. Gardening.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's no way that my episode gardening will have anything to do with politics.

[B]

No.

[A]

Or current events.

[B]

And here it is.

[A]

Every week I try.

[B]

And every week you did this yourself. I tried to start out being non political. I was trying to be an apolitical Andy over here. And then you drew the politics into it. I thought when you said that this is gonna be episode about gardening, I thought you were gonna talk about all the fun gardening things that you do on your Instagram where you've been plugging all the different ways about how you growing your seedlings and all these other different stuff where they can find it. Mrs. Pearl Mania 500 on Instagram.

[A]

That's true. And then I talk a lot about gardening.

[B]

I know you do. You love gardening and you love talking about. You love showing off your little plants.

[A]

Sow the seeds of victory.

[B]

That's a great one. Honestly, I think sowing the seeds of victory is a good one. There's so many different great ideas that you have about all these different things. And we want to hear from you guys down in the comments below and over at [e-mail] but with that being said, everybody, have yourself a great week. You can do this. You got this. Let's go sow seeds of victory together. And we'll see you next week, same time, same channel. Too many frauds and too many scammers that we wish weren't real. Too many cons and too many spammers and we're starting to feel like we've got too many tabs. Open it. Too many tabs. Remember to smile.