The Surgeon Who Changed Everything While HIGH | TMT 186

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Surgeon Who Changed Everything While HIGH"

Too Many Tabs with Pearlmania500 | Episode 186 | August 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode launches Quack Month—a Too Many Tabs tradition where Mrs. P dives into the lives of infamous or controversial medical figures from history. This time, she explores the life and legacy of Dr. William Stewart Halstead (1852–1922), a pioneering surgeon who simultaneously revolutionized medicine and struggled with serious addiction. The hosts, in their signature bantering style, debate whether Halstead counts as a “quack” or was simply a flawed genius of his era.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Quack Month

(00:00–02:30)

• Mrs. P introduces the yearly “Quack Month” tradition, explaining the focus on historical or modern “quacks” and medical oddities; this year’s twist: listeners are invited to judge if each subject is a quack.
• Quote: “Quack Month is a month that Mrs. P has dedicated since almost the very beginning of the show where she goes through and finds historical...quacks. Quackery. Just. These are people who. They do medical stuff...badly.” – A, 00:31

2. Early Life and Privilege

(02:31–08:24)

• Halstead’s background as a wealthy New Yorker born to privilege, with his family’s fortune tied to the dry goods business dating back to the Mormon-Western expansion.
• He was homeschooled, hated boarding school, and ran away, but still got into Yale thanks to family connections.
• “How's your doctor? Not a great student. Crazy.” – A, 05:24

3. Yale Days: Rejection and Redirection

(08:25–12:39)

• At Yale, Halstead excelled in sports (“Joe Rogan doctor”), struggled academically, and suffered a major social setback by being rejected from the Skull and Bones society––sparking a lament on elite secret societies and their lore.
• He became obsessed with medicine after “discovering” the medical school and began auditing classes as an undergrad.

4. Becoming a Doctor: Passion and Privilege

(13:00–15:49)

• Medical school at Columbia, mixing passion with privilege (worked at a pharmacy, threw himself into studies).
• Became so engaged that he took the Bellevue Hospital internship test before graduating; they bent the rules to admit him, likely due to his performance and social standing.

5. The State of Medicine in Halstead’s Time

(20:14–24:10)

• Mrs. P paints a vivid picture: surgery in the 1870s-80s was unsanitary and primitive—students carried buckets of pus, and doctors seldom cleaned tools or hands.
• Halstead gets introduced to Joseph Lister’s antiseptic methods—ushering in surgical hand-washing, sterilization, and ultimately obsession with infection prevention.

6. Halstead: Early Innovations

(24:48–31:04)

• After graduating, Halstead introduces patient charting with vitals at New York Hospital—practices now seen as crucial to medicine.
• Quote: “Hear me out. We get a clipboard...and we start writing down...what if we time it every hour or two hours. We take their temperature, check their pulse, and then check their respiration, and we'll note if there's any changes.” – B, 29:19
• Satisfaction with charting, vital signs, and hands-on teaching marks him as a forward-thinking educator.

7. Path-Breaking Surgeries at Home

(31:05–45:18)

• Halstead performed the first gallbladder surgery in the U.S.—on his own mother at their kitchen table at 2AM. She fully recovered.
• Later, he performed a (very lucky, pre-blood-type-discovery) blood transfusion using his own blood to save his sister after childbirth.
• These bold, family-focused acts helped solidify his "maverick" surgeon reputation.
• “You get this one wrong, honestly, you're going to be haunted by the Furies for the rest of your life because you murdered your own mother.” – A, 42:26

8. The Descent: Cocaine as a Miracle Drug

(45:52–53:50)

• Inspired by a report on cocaine’s anesthetic properties, Halstead and fellow doctors begin self-experimentation—testing eye drops and injections—and rapidly develop serious addictions.
• Most of the group perish from their habits; only Halstead and one colleague survive.
• "Halstead and some of his colleagues became severely addicted to cocaine." – B, 48:33

9. Highs and Lows: Addiction, Embarrassment, and 'Man-Napping'

(53:51–60:00)

• Halstead’s addiction culminates in a gibberish medical article, resulting in public shame.
• Friends forcibly send (man-nap!) him to Europe to detox on a boat—a harrowing experience with no real concept of addiction treatment at the time.
• Returns, relapses, then swaps his cocaine habit for morphine—spending the rest of his life managing both.

10. Transformation at Johns Hopkins: Residency, Gloves, & Lasting Legacy

(62:12–79:15)

• Despite his issues, Halstead helps found Johns Hopkins Medical School and invents modern surgical residency training (including the gruelling, sleep-deprived system still in use).
• He champions antiseptic techniques, less barbaric breast cancer surgery, and regular charting.
• Halstead falls in love with a nurse, Caroline Hampton, and, to protect her hands from antiseptics, commissions the first rubber gloves from Goodyear—giving rise to modern surgical gloves.
• "He is the person that invented residency training in hospitals." – B, 64:58

11. Retirement, Death, and Appraisal

(75:13–78:19)

• Halstead retires to North Carolina, raises dahlias, delves into astronomy, never has children, and continues to manage his addictions with strict “rules”.
• Dies at 69 from bronchopneumonia after gallstone surgery complications—a cruel echo of his mother’s historic operation.

12. Final Verdict: Quack or Genius?

(78:18–End)

• The hosts agree Halstead was ultimately not a quack—despite his “quack energy” and deep personal flaws, his innovations and patient-focused advances outweigh his dangerous mistakes. In context, he was a tragic medical prodigy whose legacy is mostly positive, if deeply human and cautionary.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Skull and Bones:
“I don't think everybody knows what Skull and Bones are... It's a collection of elites that go all the way back...they drink the blood of children inside of a crypt underneath Yale Law School.” – A, 09:22

First Gallbladder Surgery:
“He performs the first gallbladder surgery...on his own mom at their kitchen table. No.” – B/A, 39:50–40:00

Addiction Spiral:
"When instilled on the surface of the eye...[cocaine] could produce safe and effective local anesthesia...Halstead would also inject himself with the drug to test it before using it on his patients during surgeries. In the process, Halstead and some of his other colleagues became severely addicted to cocaine." – B, 46:27 & 48:33

Residency System’s Origin:
“I need you to understand, he is the person that invented residency training in hospitals.” – B, 64:58
"[Residency] was invented by a cokehead." – A, 65:26

Surgical Gloves Invention:
“Their connection was the catalyst to the invention of the rubber glove.” – B, 71:39

Final Judgment:
“Not a quack.” – A, 79:27
“He had quack tendencies, but it also was the age of quacks.” – B, 80:32

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – Start, Quack Month setup
• 08:59 – Skull and Bones rejection, social consequences
• 15:05 – Enters Bellevue Hospital before degree; rules bent for him
• 23:06 – Introduction to antisepsis: Lister’s influence & Listerine origin
• 29:19 – Introduction of patient charts/vital tracking
• 39:50 – First U.S. gallbladder surgery, on his own mother
• 42:18 – First (lucky) family blood transfusion
• 46:06 – Discovers cocaine’s anesthetic use, self-experimentation begins
• 48:33 – Halstead and peers’ cocaine addiction
• 53:03 – “Man-napped” for detox in Europe; the failed intervention
• 62:12 – Begins work at Johns Hopkins, founds surgical residency program
• 64:58 – Halstead as creator of modern residency training
• 71:39 – Invention of rubber surgical gloves for Caroline Hampton
• 75:13 – Retirement and personal life
• 78:19 – The verdict: Not a quack, but a flawed innovator

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Tone & Language

Light-hearted, irreverent, and banter-heavy; the hosts (husband and wife) mix historical research with personal asides, pop culture references, and “Philadelphia cousin energy.” Their approach balances genuine historical insight with skepticism, empathy for Halstead’s addiction, and persistent comedic riffing about both contemporary and historical medicine.

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For New Listeners

• The episode is a deep-dive into the messy, tragic, and brilliant life of a medical pioneer.
• You’ll gain context for why surgeons wear gloves, track vital signs, and undergo brutal residencies—and you’ll appreciate how close medical history is to chaos (and cocaine).
• The hosts’ relaxed, joke-filled style makes it easy to absorb the wild ride without any prior medical knowledge.

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Recommended For:

• Fans of comedic history, medical oddities, and critical, personable podcast storytelling.
• Those interested in the humanity and fallibility behind major medical advances.

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"Quack or no quack? Verdict: No quack—just a problematic genius whose mark on history is everywhere in a hospital today."

Transcript

[A]

Quack, quack. It's August. That means it's quack. That means that Mrs. P has opened up too many tabs about a specific medical quack from history, and you're about to find all about the Dr. House of the 1880s. Too many times. Remember to smile. Welcome to Too Many Tabs, a podcast where a husband and wife duo sit next to each other at table. And guess what, Mrs. B. It's August. And you know what that means.

[B]

It's Quack Month.

[A]

Quack month for a lot of the new listeners out there, and there are quite a few of you. If you haven't been going back into the archives or pouring across our [e-mail] you might not know what to expect this month. Quack Month is a month that Mrs. P has dedicated since almost the very beginning of the show where she goes through and finds historical. Historical or existing quacks. Quackery. Just. These are people who. They do medical stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Badly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Terribly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Fraudulently.

[B]

Sometimes evilly. Yeah.

[A]

Rfkingly.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

There's a lot that happened in there, Liver King. But there's a lot inside of Quack Month, and it's a thing we look forward to every single year. Because that means Mrs. P gets to get on her shit, right?

[B]

Yes, absolutely. On my ship. But guess what? I did. I. I did spice it up a little. This. This year.

[A]

No change.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No, I don't like change.

[B]

A little bit of change.

[A]

No. This is why I voted for McCain. I don't like change.

[B]

So here's what. Here's what's going on. I got a lot of suggestions about Quack Month because people that like Quack Month love Quack Month.

[A]

People fucks with the quack month.

[B]

Absolutely. And so I've got a lot of suggestions. And so I started looking up some of the ideas and I said to myself, I don't know if this person's a quack or not. They're very interesting. A lot of historical stuff that's really cool and interesting. Okay, is it a quack? Are they a quack? I don't know. So what I've decided is I've done the episodes. They're in front of me, Right. We have the research. I'm gonna present them to you, to the audience, to the listeners, to the watchers, and you guys let me know, is this person a quack or not? They might not be.

[A]

So I'll share my opinion at the end of the show, and then you can share your opinion in the comments here. On YouTube, on our Patreon at Pearlmania500.net I believe Spotify has a comment section. We don't see that. I don't know, but there's so many different ways. But the best way to do it would go to an Apple podcast, give us five stars on Apple Pod, and. And then write if you think this person's a quack in the review while telling people how much you love the show. Mrs. P. With that. All of that being said.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All of that being. Yeah, what do you got?

[B]

Dr. William Stewart Halstead. Okay, that's the guy. Dr. William Stewart Halstead. Okay. He was born a Libra, September 23rd, 1852. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He's not alive anymore.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So you can talk your shit.

[A]

I. Okay. So I don't have to. I don't know.

[B]

Allegedly.

[A]

There's no alleged leads on this one.

[B]

Yeah, no.

[A]

Okay. He was in 1852. Where?

[B]

More.

[A]

We're pretty certain he's dead. Yeah, 1852.

[B]

He's still alive. Not a quack. Not a quack.

[A]

No. If he said he's still alive, he'd be a really good doctor.

[B]

Okay, okay. So he's born to privilege. Let's just say that. Rich. Rich. Born.

[A]

Well, I feel like if you know someone's name from 1852.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Safe to assume they're born to privilege.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

It's like almost anything you read when it sounds like, oh, I'm reincarnated. I was the daughter of Henry VII of England. It's like, okay, sure. How come no one was ever a reincarnated peasant?

[B]

How come none of the ghosts that haunt the world are wearing Cookie Monster pajama pants?

[A]

Well, because they don't go to a lot of super wawas on aramingo Avenue at 3 o' clock in the morning.

[B]

That is big facts. Okay, so he's born in New York City.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

New York City.

[A]

New York City.

[B]

I was leaving room for that.

[A]

I know.

[B]

His childhood home was across the street from the first private homes ever. Electrified.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So he's. I have a picture of across the street. Rich. Okay, Rich, this. This house looks like the house from the TV show Gilded Age.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, got it. You know, we're back in. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, like, literally, we did a whole month about the Gilded Age to let people know what was coming.

[A]

No, I know, but also, like, literally right now they just unveiled new gilded statues. We paid $5 million to cover a statue called the Art of War.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yeah. Which also. Also, we're losing one of those. So anyway, Go ahead, keep going, Ms. B.

[B]

His mother, Mary Louisa Haynes, and his father, William Mills Halstead Jr. Amassed their wealth from. From their dry goods firm, which was called Halstead, Haynes and Company.

[A]

Okay. And so dry goods firm is crazy.

[B]

Dry goods firm. Here's the thing. I looked up the dry goods. I'm sorry? I looked up the dry goods firm. Right. And they go back all the way to the Joseph Smith papers. Huh? The Mormons. Oh, the Mormons purchased goods from the Hallsteads during the West Western expansions. That's how far back this goes. This is how they're making their money.

[A]

Got it. Okay, so this is. So this guy is the scion of the people who fed the Mormons?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. Got it.

[B]

Dr. Halstead was the oldest of four children. There isn't a lot about his childhood other than he wasn't a good student. There's not a lot of history about him except for people made notes. Not good in class. Yeah, not a good student. Okay.

[A]

Okay. How's your doctor? Not a great student. Crazy.

[B]

He was tutored at home until the age of 10 when his parents shipped him off to boarding school in Monsoon, Massachusetts.

[A]

Okay, that might be.

[B]

Monson.

[A]

That is such a nightmare of a sentence. Can you imagine? You're up in Massachusetts and suddenly a homeschooled New Yorker shows up. Oh, man. A rich one who's bad at school. That's crazy.

[B]

Guess what? He hated it. And he ran away.

[A]

He ran from school. The doctor ran from school.

[B]

Okay, that place. And he ran away. He ended up graduating from Phillips Academy, which was another boarding School in 1869.

[A]

This is also like, we are pretty pre public schools in this area era. Right?

[B]

Okay, sure.

[A]

No, I'm saying it's like that, like, schooling was a little bit different back then, so the idea that they're all kind of private makes a little bit of sense. Yeah, you would have some education, but not like to the crazy amount, so. But like him being constantly, inconsistently sent to boarding schools and fleeing and yelling that he.

[B]

And then getting caught and then brought back to a new boarding school.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Now there's so many books. That's. Okay.

[B]

Like the guy, the King of England. That's in. Okay. In the show about the queen.

[A]

Oh, I forgot that they have a king now. When you're like the King of England. And I started going back to the 1400s. No, King Charles. From the Crown.

[B]

From the Crown.

[A]

The show.

[B]

The Crown showed him in the boarding school.

[A]

Yeah, because they sent him to the boarding school where they beaten and harassed him. Yeah, yeah, because it was like. That was like a British torture school.

[B]

And this isn't. It's in probably.

[A]

Yeah. It's a Massachusetts school.

[B]

Naturally, being a subpar student with considerable wealth, he was naturally accepted to Yale University. Okay, so again, he's been a bad student his whole life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ran away from school. But he's so rich, he still gets to go to Yale. Yeah.

[A]

Well, I mean, think. I think this is also at a time when it's like, hey, I want to go to a good school. It's like, well, are you rich? No. Then you're not going.

[B]

Yeah, there's no school. Go to work. Yeah, there's a factory that needs your boss.

[A]

I don't know if you guys know this. Shovels. Big industry back then. Big industry for sure.

[B]

Making them and digging them.

[A]

Hey, let's say. Let's just go ahead and start digging.

[B]

Halstead was more of a jock than ingenious during his undergrad. He was captain of the football team, played baseball, and was on the rowing crew. Okay, so he's really focusing on the sport.

[A]

So what you're. You're describing a Joe Rogan doctor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I hate school. I fled from it. I was. I got a lot of concussions.

[B]

Yeah. I wore jeans while I was on the rowing team. No shirt.

[A]

Oh, my God. Quack. All right, go. Keep going.

[B]

Okay. His biggest social setback, because, again, he's popular, he's rich, he's good at sports. He's not smart. Okay, this is a popular kid.

[A]

We never said he. Actually, I want to say this. I don't want to say he's not smart.

[B]

I'm just studious.

[A]

He's not studious.

[B]

He's not.

[A]

I think that is important because there are a lot of people that are smart who weren't necessarily good at school, who maybe don't test well, who. Who maybe have some undiagnosed things happening. Maybe there's a little bit of nature versus nurture playing around with them. Maybe the fact that they drank, what was that iced tea called Arctic Splash instead of water until they were, like, 14.

[B]

This is maybe that very pointed.

[A]

Yeah, maybe that, like, melted some neurons in their brain until eventually they detoxed and discovered the Internet.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, great. I like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm getting in the Yale, then.

[A]

Oh, you're never getting into. Yeah.

[B]

His biggest social setback in college was not being accepted into the Skull and Bone Society his senior year.

[A]

Wait, wait. Skull and Bones existed back then?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I don't think Everybody knows what Skull and Bones are.

[B]

I think we got to tell them.

[A]

Should Alex Jones tell them?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Skull and Bones society is a. It's a collection of elites that go all the way back to the Method Lucian era, that they drink the blood of children inside of a crypt underneath Yale Law School. It involves such people as George H.W. bush, correct?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

George W. Bush.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

John Kerry. They told us we had a Choice in the 2004 election between war and peace, but in reality, it was a choice between Skull and Bones.

[B]

Among the most notorious controversies are claims that this secret society possessed stolen human remains, including legendary figures like Apache, Apache, Apache leader Geronimo, Mexican revolutionary Pancho Villa, and US President Martin Van Buren.

[A]

Wait, what? That's. That's a, by the way, crazy list of people. That's a crazy list, but also their society is called Skull and bones.

[B]

In 2009, Geronimo's descendants sued the Russell Trust association, with which is the society's corporate entity, demanding the return of his remains. Though the case was ultimately dismissed. Hmm. Hmm. So, I mean, he didn't get in, though.

[A]

He didn't get into the Evil Society. And that bothered him for the rest of his life?

[B]

Yeah, a little bit.

[A]

That was his big thing.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it just. It was. It's just like. It was a big social setback. It's like all the girls, when they do the thing where they.

[A]

They play Bama Rush.

[B]

Yeah, Bama Rush. And then the girls that don't get.

[A]

I understand what a fraternity is I it for.

[B]

And.

[A]

And that's what this is. Skull and Bones is for. Char. There also was a movie. Yeah, there's a Skull and Bones movie.

[B]

There was a Skull and Bones movie.

[A]

Yeah. I want to say it came out in, like, 2006. It had the guy who played Pacey from Dawson's Creek in it.

[B]

Love Pacey.

[A]

Yeah, Skull and Bones movie.

[B]

He was in Fringe.

[A]

Yeah, it's called the Skulls. Yes.

[B]

Yeah. Joshua Jackson and Paul Walker. Oh, we don't like Paul Walker.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Paul Walker.

[B]

Bad person.

[A]

Yeah, Paul Walker.

[B]

Hey, bad person. Yeah, just bad person. Period, point blank.

[A]

Yeah. You know what, Paul? The only reason Paul Walker isn't in the Epstein files is because of a telephone pole.

[B]

So. Okay, he's not in school modes. His academics were still a struggle the entire, entire time until his third year when he discovered Yale Medical School.

[A]

He discovered the medical school?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is he, Columbus? Yeah.

[B]

He said, hey, what are you guys doing over here? Medical stuff.

[A]

Hey, what's that building over there?

[B]

Never Noticed that whole building before.

[A]

Oh, it's full of bones. I've been trying to get it.

[B]

Lab coats.

[A]

I've been trying to get into a building full of bones for a while now. Apparently, there's just been one you can walk in this whole time.

[B]

William loved medical science so much that he would sit on in lectures meant for medical students while he was an undergraduate.

[A]

Oh, no, that's not good.

[B]

He just show up.

[A]

No, you can't do that.

[B]

Take notes.

[A]

You shouldn't do that. Also, this is at a bad time. This is a bad time in medicine. This is a time of medicine when they were like, yeah, you don't need to clean your tools.

[B]

What are you talking about?

[A]

It's. What do you mean that's a bad time?

[B]

Not foreshadowing.

[A]

Yeah. All right. No, no.

[B]

He really found his passion after graduating from Yale, and he decided to attend Columbia University of Physicians and Surgeons.

[A]

Okay, so he's going to Columbia now?

[B]

Yeah, he's going to go to Columbia for. For real medical school.

[A]

Okay, got it. So he. He used to just go to medical school for funsies.

[B]

For fun. For the bit.

[A]

For the bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's very. That's very Van Wilder.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I just found out was based on Bert Kreischer.

[B]

Yeah, I remember hearing that.

[A]

Yeah, I know. It bugged me in a way.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Because they were like, someone saw Bert Kreischer, like, in his sixth year at Arizona University and said, yeah, that's the same as. That's the same as Ryan Reynolds. I'm like, now, you know, I love mobile.

[B]

So once he entered medical school, he left his early academic difficulties behind him. He enjoyed the first years of medical school, going to classes and working at a pharmacy in his free time. So he's in it. All right. He's loving this.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Got it. He's just super into medicine. He's. He's like, medicine is my hobby.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's the first thing he's fallen in love with since fleeing school.

[B]

I love running away and distributing pills. What could go wrong?

[A]

Okay, that. That's. She was in character, I hope, as she said that we had a big banner that just says in character. No, because Mrs. P, that sentence. That sentence is going to be used against us when they inevitably aim the psyop gun. Oh, yeah, that's going to be one of the ones where they clip it out of context.

[B]

What, that I love running away and giving people pills?

[A]

Yes. The way that that one was said if I ran an evil clip farm out of tel Aviv. Right. If I was doing that and I wanted to smear people, I would take that particular clip.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I would put that in with an odds or other. Then you being like, fudge. You bleed out from that one episode. And there's so many other things you've said, a lot of controversial things I don't talk about.

[B]

I don't say anything controversial. Around year two, Halstead started complaining that his memory wasn't as strong as it used to be, and he was feeling burned out.

[A]

Okay. So he's in year two of medical school, and he's burnt out. He's like, this is an issue. Which, to be fair, I think. I think I've heard every year two medical students in the history of the world ever say, yeah, for sure.

[B]

Okay, so what do you think they do when they're about to burn out?

[A]

What year is this? Oh, like the 1870s.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cocaine.

[B]

Okay. No, he's gonna go spend the summer in Block Island, Rhode Island. He spends the summer sailing and fishing.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He takes a big, big summer vacay.

[B]

After this glorious summer, he decided to take the exam to become an intern at Bellevue Hospital in New York City.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

New York. I think it's just New York State. Bellevue's New York State.

[A]

Well, I'm still gonna do it. New York City.

[B]

The test, though, was not open to anyone without a medical degree.

[A]

Oh. So he was like, I'm just going to take it. And they're like, you can. You can't do that. You can't just. And he's like, anybody who passes the bar in Virginia can be a lawyer. And they're like, this isn't. What?

[B]

This isn't. You're not the wrong movie. You're not. Kim Kardashian, who has not passed the

[A]

bar, is not past the bar.

[B]

Did you see her new energy drink? She said no. Shut up. She's selling a new energy drink. It's like a canned drink for energy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And her. Her tagline is, I might not have passed the bar, but I raised it.

[A]

No.

[B]

How did you raise a bar? You did not pass the bar.

[A]

You barely even raised your own kids.

[B]

What? Hey, she pays a good team.

[A]

That's true, I guess. I'm not sure.

[B]

I don't know if that's true.

[A]

I have to just immediately defer to your expertise on this one.

[B]

I have no idea. You never see the people that raise the kids.

[A]

I was talking about Reacher the other day.

[B]

Love Reacher.

[A]

We love Reacher. I love Reacher.

[B]

Big fan of Reacher.

[A]

You've never Watched it?

[B]

No, but I see clips of him.

[A]

I know well, the guy, Alan Richton.

[B]

Yeah, I saw him try to beat up that guy once.

[A]

He tried to beat up a guy and then he. He called. He called Trump. Things that can get you kicked off a tick tock. Yeah, but I was, I was, I was talking to the crashing out team about it and I was like, yeah, I watched the first season, you know, because when the baby was a newborn, I'd like watch at night while like, like, literally there was like an Amazon commercial about like burping the baby and 2am and watching Reacher. Yeah, And I had like a bonding experience with Reacher, but the baby got bigger and like that doesn't feel like a show I should watch with you. It's not a show that you would be super into because it's just like big guy go to town, beat up, bad guy, get girl beat up, other bad guys leave. It's kind of like that. And like that's like a male power fantasy. And then I realized I was like, oh, Reacher is like the male scripted version of you watching the Kardashians.

[B]

Oh, it turns off your brain.

[A]

Yeah, it's like for Bravo tv. It's like that brain turn off type of thing I can put on. Reacher and I never question a single. He just snaps handcuffs. I'm like, yeah, that's fine.

[B]

That sounds right.

[A]

Yeah, he's very big. Yeah, he's a very big man.

[B]

He's a very big man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so he, he goes to take the test.

[A]

The doctor. Halstead.

[B]

The doctor. Not Reacher.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We would let him do exactly what this guy's about to do. Yeah, because we love Reacher.

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah, Reacher could take a test.

[B]

So.

[A]

A kissing test.

[B]

So he goes to take the exam to become the intern. An intern at Bellevue Hospital. But the test is not open to anyone without a medical degree. Yeah, but he did so well on the exam. They broke their own rules and accepted him.

[A]

Without a degree, this feels like someone got paid. I'm just going to throw that out there. This feels very much.

[B]

You know who got paid me for this? Next ad read.

[A]

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[B]

I like. I'm obsessed with. With Quinn's number one. I'm wearing Quinn socks right now. I love Quince socks. They are underrated. The Quinn socks are so good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, they're talking about fall. I'm going to try to get myself one of these butter yellow cashmere sweaters. I have had it in my cart for a while, but I feel like it's time.

[A]

Yeah. And the one thing I really, really love about Quince is that it has that effortlessness that carries you, as they say already, from the office to dinner. But I find it can fit in, like, anything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

Thank you. I'm a hero.

[A]

That was incredible. Four years of doing this and you just swept me off my feet. Oh, and right into Quinn.

[B]

Romantically.

[A]

Yeah. And if you didn't. Honestly, guys, remember, if you don't like hearing ads, you can always join us. Pearl Mania 500.

[B]

I cut such good ads, but I

[A]

don't even really do. I know, but pro mana500.net if you want to add free content. That being said, Mrs. P, get back to the Bellevue. Yeah, the Bellevue. And what was this guy's name again?

[B]

Dr. William Halstead.

[A]

Dr. William Halstead. Quote unquote, tests so good that they throw the rule book out and they say he's the smartest, most handsomest and not the richest. And not just because he's rich. Come on into Bellevue Hospital.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, here's the thing. I'm gonna tell you what I know about Bellevue.

[B]

Okay? Go ahead.

[A]

I know that it's referenced in a lot of, like, gothic horror.

[B]

Yeah. They were like, as a horrible place.

[A]

Yeah. And they're like, hey, come on in. Here, rich guy. Torture whoever you want.

[B]

Yeah. No. So he goes and works primarily in the medical ward.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And help during surgical procedures. That's not. Yikes.

[A]

This feels a lot like letting Eric Trump just like handing him a knife. He's like. He's watched a lot of YouTube.

[B]

I think it's RFK Jr.

[A]

If it's anything really is. Okay. Yeah. I mean, there was even a whole Massachusetts.

[B]

Or Dr. Oz.

[A]

No, I go RFK JR. Because Dr. Oz actually was a surgeon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like Dr. Oz. At least there's some people where you're like, okay. Something like Ben Carson.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ben Carson was famous at like an actual brain surgeon.

[B]

What happened to that guy?

[A]

He went insane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then eventually became the director of Housing and Urban Development.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the Trump administration. But like, as a surgeon, he was like. Everyone's like, he was a very, very good surgeon. Like, so the other thing too is like scrubs actually has kind of gotten this right. Like surgeons themselves.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They are kind of like athletes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where it's like. Yeah. They're really, really good at doing this specific cut.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Be really good at doing the specific cut. What about anything else?

[B]

Holding a conversation. Can't do it. So Halstead witnessed the state of surgery in the late 1800s.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Let's just say it was extremely unsanitary. Interns were told to remove buckets of pus from patients wounds. The practice of bleeding patients was still a common practice. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

And also, wasn't there a thing too about like, the surgical tools were kind of treated the same way you treat an iron skillet?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, ah. You can't tell the flavors. You gotta leave it on there.

[B]

Wash yourself in water.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[A]

Woks. You clean a wok though, right?

[B]

I mean, are you supposed to listen? I'm not getting into this debate. Right. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The people that have extreme opinions on this, I'm not fighting with them.

[A]

Okay. Okay, got it. I'm just. I just wanted to throw it out there though. It's like there's. There was this same sort of feeling, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I know. From when I learned about the Civil War as a kid, there was an idea that if you went to a doctor, the more blood they had on them meant more like they were more of a veteran. You know what I mean? It was like, oh, that guy's done a lot. He's caked in blood.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He must know what he's doing.

[B]

Not that he's. Something went horribly Wrong.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Okay, so where I leave off. Okay. So during his internship, Halstead was introduced to the use of antiseptics through physicians using John Lister's technique. So here's the thing. Here's a little rabbit hole. I didn't fully go down it, but listen to the name again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

John Lister's technique. There is a doctor named John Lister who invents a way to create antiseptic cleaning habits for medical doctors. And yes, Listerine is named after him.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, I. I know exactly where this is. It's in the other room. And that bacteria does not go quietly. It burns.

[B]

Why does Listerine hurt so much? I use. Use Listerine every day for years and years, and every single time, it hurts like the first time.

[A]

Yeah, that's just how it goes.

[B]

The process was using carbolic acid to sanitize surgical tubes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The doctor's hands and the patient's skin. Okay, so you're going to use the acid on all three, and that's going to create an antiseptic environment.

[A]

Yeah, because it's removing bacteria and germs.

[B]

And this is big news.

[A]

This is new.

[B]

This is new.

[A]

Just so you guys know, breaking news.

[B]

Breaking news. We're cleaning our hands.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dr. Fauci's being questioned right now.

[A]

Literally, as we're recording this, Dr. Fauci is pleading the fifth.

[B]

Yeah. Good.

[A]

To Rand Paul, fake doctor.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. I was actually debating. I was like, maybe we should do a quack episode about Rand Paul. And I was like, I hate that man.

[B]

I hate him. I'd be so mad the whole time.

[A]

Yeah. I just agree with his neighbor.

[B]

Do you want to elaborate?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

If they pick, just Google Rand Paul's neighbor, enough will come up.

[B]

So, okay, they're you. They're sanitizing the tools in their hands. Great. And the patient's skin. This sparks something in Halstead. And he spent the rest of his time at Bellevue focused on preventing infection and complications through sterilization. So he became the sterilization guy.

[A]

Got it. I wonder if he was as annoying as, like, the. The breast. The lactation ladies.

[B]

Oh, the breastfeeding versus bottle feeding ladies.

[A]

Yeah, when they show up in the. Show up in the hospital. Because, like, here's the thing. What he's talking about is very good. Yeah, right.

[B]

But is he annoying about it?

[A]

He might be annoying about it. Like, sometimes when you're. When you're. When you're being evangelizing about something. I've had friends of mine who were like, who were raised, like, evangelical. And then they. They lost their faith and became atheists.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it didn't stop them from evangelizing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, the problem we always had with you is we were always trying to convert everybody.

[B]

Yeah. And it's holding everybody to standards of perfection. Because that's what you learned in religion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

While also martyring yourself. Because being a martyr is also part of that thing. You didn't.

[A]

Yeah. And so, again, I don't know this guy whatsoever. But, like, I'm just wondering if he's like, hey, just so you know, he's,

[B]

like, walking in every room. You got your carbolic acid.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sorry. You didn't clean that knife good enough. So you just killed that man. I hope you're happy. You just fucking killed that.

[B]

Oh, he's ruining a comment section right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Halstead spent a year at Bellevue and graduated as one of the top 10 medical students in his class.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Okay, so he's popping.

[A]

Okay, he's popping off.

[B]

He left Columbia with a Doctor of Medicine degree and he joined some competition and won, making him the number one student to graduate, which sounds totally believable. And again, not because he's rich.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, Okay. I mean, honestly, at this point, maybe I'll give it to him just because. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It does feel weird to have a doctoring competition, though. I will throw that out there. But then again, this is before World War I.

[B]

They don't have Kalshee to gamble about.

[A]

That's true. They didn't have Kalshee. They don't have Halo. They don't have Grand Theft Auto. There's a lot of stuff they don't have.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They hadn't gamified everything.

[B]

Yeah, well, get on it.

[A]

Yeah, get on.

[B]

The world is going to be super cool, what they do. And, hey, you know, driving people into gambling addiction.

[A]

Yeah. Which is why if you use our promo code, fuck cowshe, you can get a new life. Because why are you dumping your money into calcium? Poly Market. If you know anyone who is doing these things, look them dead in the eye and say, you're a fucking loser.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You're an idiot.

[B]

Are you betting on people dying? Yuck.

[A]

Are you betting on natural disasters?

[B]

You people are losing their livelihoods and you're trying to profit off that.

[A]

Oh, you think your candidate's going to win because somebody postponed a polymarket data? Did you know that Poly Market is secretly paying influencers to Point to polymarket data. Like it's the same as polling. On both sides of the aisles, folks. On both sides of the aisles. Yes. Ask me how I know. Ask me how I know.

[B]

During his stint. Wait, no. I lost my life. After graduating, he joined the New York Hospital as a house physician.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. We're in 1878.

[A]

So he's a real doctor.

[B]

He's a real doctor.

[A]

He's a real. I just want to be clear about that. We've covered on quack months before. We have covered people who have called themselves doctors.

[B]

Yeah. But they were actually chiropractors who are not doctors.

[A]

Yes. Or. Or they never finished their nursing.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. And now they're all selling off brand peptides.

[A]

Yeah, they love a peptide.

[B]

They love it.

[A]

They love a peptide because they can't do the weight loss stuff anymore because the GLP1s.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Per your conspiracy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From the Ellen episode.

[A]

From the Ellen episode.

[B]

So he's the physician now. It's 1878.

[A]

1878.

[B]

Here he makes his best friend. He meets a pathologist named William Welch. William Welch.

[A]

William Welch. And they bought of Welch's grapes.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. I wish I did. Want to check real fast?

[B]

I wish you hit us with the

[A]

Lister and to the Listerine earlier. And this is a. This is during a period of time where the businesses that we all know now were named after people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you'd be like, yeah. And it was like, Mr. Macy comes walking around the corner. I'm like, from Macy's. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

So William. Well, they become best friends for the

[A]

rest of their best friends. Okay.

[B]

Ever forever best friends.

[A]

They feel like the type of people who go on jungle hunts.

[B]

You know what? They do feel like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I don't know if that's. I know. I don't know if that's true. I did not.

[A]

Okay, got it.

[B]

Okay. So during his stint at New York Hospital, he introduced charts that tracked patients temperature, pulse, and respiration.

[A]

They didn't have that.

[B]

No. He said, now, what if we got a clipboard?

[A]

What if we wrote it down?

[B]

Hear me out. We have a clipboard, right? We get a piece of paper and we start writing down. And maybe we time it every hour or two hours. We take their temperature, check their pulse, and then check their respiration,

[A]

and we'll note if there's any changes.

[B]

Notes if there's any changes. What if we do that? What do you think would happen?

[A]

They were just going on vibes before that.

[B]

Yeah. And the bloodletting. He seems hot. Let some blood out. Too much blood making him hot.

[A]

This is quack month.

[B]

And I told you I'm doing it a little differently this month.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Is he a quack? Isn't he a quack?

[A]

Keep going. Let's find out. Because so far. So far, it feels like he's a time traveler who showed up with the only working brain in 1889, or whatever year it is.

[B]

1878.

[A]

Jesus. Terrible time. This is. This is right after the compromise. All right, go ahead.

[B]

This wasn't enough for him, so he left to study in Europe for a year with the great medical minds of Europe. Of Europe.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then he returns to New York in 1880.

[A]

Return more racist. Because that was like, a lot of the European science was like, oh, well, I'm telling you right now.

[B]

Size of your head.

[A]

All right, let me get my calipers out.

[B]

So from 1880 to 1884, would it

[A]

be funny if maga hats only came in one size? And that would actually be what proved that?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

We're like. No, we're into phrenology now because MAGA hats only sell in one size. Like. Oh, right. Oh, they're all eight and a half.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So 1880 to 1840. I'm sorry, 1880 to 1884, he really becomes the true version of himself. He blossoms as a physician and a teacher.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He performed surgery at multiple hospitals, including Chamber Street Hospital, the College of Physicians and Surgeons, where he assisted the demonstrator in anatomy, Charity Hospital, Bellevue Hospital, and Roosevelt Hospital, which is currently named Mount Sinai.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

He was a visiting physician at all three. And the State Emigrant Hospital on Wards island, where he was a surgeon in chief.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

So he gets busy.

[A]

Yeah, he's very, very busy. The other thing to keep in mind, too, is there are famous paintings from this period of time of doctors working and especially in surgeries.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is where you get the famous. Like the. Where, like, there's all these men sitting behind them and that.

[B]

Very much.

[A]

So he's also, like, putting on a show.

[B]

Yeah, he's teaching.

[A]

He's teaching and doing these things.

[B]

Explaining stuff and doing it also.

[A]

Did you guys know that the suit is a doctor suit?

[B]

What?

[A]

The suit. The modern men's suit.

[B]

We were supposed to get you one on Monday.

[A]

I gotta do that. Yeah, I gotta do that. That's a tux, though. That's a tux for a wedding. You have to take my measurements.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I didn't know. I didn't know what my inseam is. Yeah, I don't know what anything is. I don't know my measurements. But also, I haven't worn a suit in so long. Last time I wore a suit, people were conspiracies about me. But the one thing I want to

[B]

say wasn't that our wedding suit?

[A]

It was our wedding suit. And I. It does not fit anymore. I. The Me and the toddler are super into ice cream right now. But what's gonna say is the modern suit. The reason why there's clasp buttons here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you can roll it up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Is so a doctor can reach in and not get it dirty. This button here, this set, this section here that is. This is a doctor's suit.

[B]

God.

[A]

It's a doctor.

[B]

And then they used to have like cuffs that they would put there. Yeah.

[A]

There's some other things you could do to hold it up because they might like.

[B]

Yeah. They had the cuffs.

[A]

The. The whole thing setup though, of the modern suit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is for a doctor.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

And it was like to try to keep as much off you, to keep that as clean so you could roll things up and flap it. Now they have scrubs.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But like slowly. The same way you were talking about Cookie Monster PJ Pants. Like Cookie Monster PJ pants are just kind of scrub pants.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I mean, like, slowly is what we do. We just keep taking medical stuff and just slowly, like turning it into luxury items.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's what it was. So I mean, it's just one of those things. I just wanted to point that out.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because when you look at these paintings of these surgeries.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're all wearing like what we would consider like a three piece suit or almost modern suit. It's because.

[B]

With white bonnets.

[A]

Yeah. To make sure the hair doesn't get everywhere.

[B]

So he convinced Bellevue to build a ten thousand dollar tent outside the hospital that he used as a surgical area.

[A]

Why outside the tent?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That way he could practice his antiseptic surgical techniques.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So he was like, build me a big tent outside. I'm thinking like circus sized tent.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he's doing antiseptic surgical procedures outside again, with students around him and other medical people.

[A]

His reasoning probably is because of fresh air.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's probably because of fresh air. It's also probably because maybe they can move the tent around so that they don't consider.

[B]

And you can fit more people in a tent.

[A]

You can definitely fit more people in a tent. And I'm also. I know you said circus tent. I actually probably picture it more like, wedding tent.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because again, the size of, like, multi pole.

[B]

Got it. Yeah.

[A]

That's kind of where I'm picturing of, like, your modern two pole wedding tent. Maybe you throw a wood floor underneath

[B]

there for the dance.

[A]

Yeah. Have a little dance shot.

[B]

Shot.

[A]

Maybe he comes out. Maybe.

[B]

Maybe everybody.

[A]

Maybe he can be played by Sam Rockwell. Right? So he comes out, he has knives, he does a little dance. He goes slap, slap, slap. And then he dips them in the acid.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I would do it.

[B]

I'd watch the movie.

[A]

Sam Rockwell dancing is like. If I ever watch a movie, and Sam Rockwell comes in doing his little, like, his little move, dance, move stuff. I'm like, this is a good movie.

[B]

That guy that plays Loki, he does the dance, too.

[A]

Oh, Tom Hiddleston.

[B]

Yeah. He'd be dancing.

[A]

I don't like him as much as Sam Rockwell.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

I. I think he's fine. I don't have any problem with him. Wow. But I. Sam Rockwell, like, the second I saw Sam Rockwell, I was like, that guy's cool. I don't ever want to know anything. Don't ever tell me anything bad about Sam. I don't want to know.

[B]

No, I.

[A]

This is. This is what we said before. The same thing we said about Kohl's.

[B]

Yeah. Don't tell me.

[A]

There's certain things where I'm like, guys, I know enough bad things in the world. I'm sorry.

[B]

I don't do any bad things.

[A]

Am I hyped that LeBron's going to be a sixer? Yes. Is the owner of the Philadelphia 76ers listed the Epstein files also? Yes, but there's going to. We got a push and pull in here, folks. There's a push and pull.

[B]

Yeah. Do you not go to the same age as you?

[A]

I know.

[B]

He.

[A]

Same as you, too.

[B]

What?

[A]

We're the same age as LeBron.

[B]

I'm older than you actually know.

[A]

LeBron is the same age as us. There we go.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. I wonder if his knees click as much.

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

I. They might.

[B]

I don't think his knees click as much as ours do.

[A]

No.

[B]

I don't think he stands up from sitting on the couch and hears just like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of every bone snapping. That's a personal antidote.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

You know what else has a personal antidote? Our next ad read.

[A]

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[B]

Yep.

[A]

That we didn't realize. There were certain items that we got that we didn't realize. We were in a free trial mode.

[B]

I didn't even know they had some subscriptions. I want to be honest.

[A]

We really didn't.

[B]

We hadn't slept in days.

[A]

It's exactly what happened on.

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[A]

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[B]

And it's. It makes sense. In this episode, though, it. So he becomes an extremely popular teacher during this period of his life. People love this guy.

[A]

Who is it?

[B]

Dr. William Halstead.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Okay, so he becomes extremely popular as a teacher. He would take the class, his whole class, to perform surgeries. He believed in hands on learning outside of the classroom in a tent. Yeah.

[A]

I believe in hands on learning. He's like, some people are tactile, Some people are audible. Get your hands in that and roll your sleeve up. Shove them in there. That's a gallbladder. Don't pull it out. Leave it in, leave it in.

[B]

His students were also required to be at the top of their class. Okay, so, like, he would bully all of his students to make sure that every class they were in, they were at the top of their classes.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, Gotcha. I mean, so he's just passionate. Yeah, he's passionate about his schooling so the. Here's the thing that he famously was bad at.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But other people should be good at it.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Got it. I understand that.

[B]

Okay, so there. Here's a couple crazy things he did during his time as a teacher. The first gallbladder surgery in the United States.

[A]

I just want to throw it out there. I just grabbed gallbladder because to me, it's one of the funnier organs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's either always. Just so you guys know, I will default to gallbladder or spleen. Those are the two funniest organs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Lung is not funny.

[B]

No.

[A]

Because everybody knows somebody who had a lung problem. Heart is not funny because that's your heart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. Oh, intestine. Gross. But gallbladder and spleen or two, you're like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't quite know what they do, but they sound funny.

[B]

So this. He performs the first gallbladder surgery in the United States.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This surgery. I'm going. Is pronounced this wrong. Is called the Chloe cystotonomy. Huh.

[A]

Off with that. That's. That's too many vowels. That is. That's so many vowels. It's Greek.

[B]

So this gallbladder surgery that he performed on his mother.

[A]

Shut up. No. What? No.

[B]

What? On his own mom at their kitchen table. No.

[A]

What? Oh, mom. Oh, you got a little pain. Oh, it hurts right here, son. Well, climb on the table real fast.

[B]

He surgically removed gallstones at 2am because that's what your gallbladder, when it messes up, it makes gallstones. Gallstones. Gallbladder. So he performs this gallbladder surgery to remove gallstones at 2am on his kitchen table. On his mom. His mom recovers completely and goes to live on successful surgery.

[A]

I mean, okay, I have to weigh this against the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do actually have to weigh this against the time. It's not like their kitchen table would be again, because they don't know. Antiseptic. It's not like. Like, I think a lot about when we had the baby.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we went in and you had a C section.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I think about going into that room, and it feels like it's like a clean room. It's a scrub room. I had to be in that same suit that Mark Wahlberg's wearing at the end of the Departed when he shoots Matt Damon in the head. And Matt Damon never gets to finish the Odyssey.

[B]

Spoiler alert.

[A]

Sorry. But, yeah, it's like a painter's suit. It's like this huge, big scrub Thing and I had like a hair net on and like a whole face thing. And it was like, now we know skin cells can get anywhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Back then they were just like. Again, it's like some guy walked in off the street.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They didn't even like, I'll wipe your feet. They didn't care about that. So I'm like, okay. And he is like the top surgeon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So again, balancing it against the time, I'm like, is it great? No. But we are. We are also are like a DIY time of medicine.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

That's why I'm like, okay. Like, like the anesthetics, like you could it. This is at a time where you could go. I think you can still go to like the corner store and like get cocaine, Coca cola.

[B]

Oh. The best kind.

[A]

You know what I mean? But yeah, I think, I think you could like buy like, you could buy morphine, like easy. It wasn't like, oh, I need to have this. There wasn't all the paperwork to fill. I'm sure this was easier than going through insurance. It had to be easier than going through insurance.

[B]

Better than Blue Cross Blue.

[A]

I think my only issue is the fact that it's his own mom. That that's actually, I think it's the only. That's my biggest hang up with this thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that it's his own mom. Because like what. And it's the first time ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're doing the first gallstone surgery.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gallbladder surgery ever. On your own.

[B]

You get this one wrong, you're in big trouble.

[A]

You get this one.

[B]

Not going to let this go.

[A]

You get this one wrong, honestly, you're going to be haunted by the Furies for the rest of your life because you murdered your own mother.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

To tie it back to Odysseus.

[B]

So.

[A]

And the arrest here.

[B]

He also performed one of the first. First blood transfusions after finding his sister suffering from blood loss after giving birth. After jumping into immediate action, he used his own blood to give his sister a transfusion. Then he surgically stopped the bleed. And she survived as well to go on to raise her kids.

[A]

Well, I guess, I guess he's lucky they had the same blood type. I don't even know if they knew blood type back then.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't know. I either. Very lucky. Okay.

[B]

I just picture this guy's at home. This is a very close, loving family. I gotta say that. Okay.

[A]

It has to be.

[B]

He's with his sister.

[A]

Well, at this point He's Superman at this point. He's Superman. Like, he's like super doctor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. This is a very different episode than usual. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for the crazy. Because there has to be something.

[B]

This is where he earned his reputation as being a bold surgeon.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because people's. Obviously you're talking about this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, No, I love that. This is back in the time where like, oh, he's a surgeon. He breaks all the rules because he's

[B]

a maverick and he's a cool surgeon.

[A]

And now different. Okay, sure. This is. But this is kind of. I will say though, this is the type of like novella surgeon, right? Like, if you're going to write a novel or create a character that your typical now maga mind would like, this is like the type of surgeon that you would see that uses your Frontier doctor style. Surgeon.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I'm coming up with, oh, you know, it's me and these three books versus God. And I'm like figuring this thing out. Type of thing, which is like what a lot of people look for. Especially when, you know they have a family member who has cancer or like you're looking for a cure for something. You want this Dr. House style figure who comes in and goes, you fools. It was this the whole time? Yeah. Oh, it's like this. And they come up with a very simple analogy, like Star Trek. And so there's something to that. And so that's why, like, like it's. It's like cool. But I'm like, I'm very hesitant because there's a lot of things now that we wouldn't do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then again, sometimes you do have to like, cut that Gordian knot not to do another ancient Greek.

[B]

I think you just keep doing them.

[A]

I'm just gonna keep doing them. You gotta cut that Gordian knot, though, sometimes to be like, listen, she needs blood. Who has blood? I have blood. Like, that's crazy. I could imagine being the nurse. Imagine being the nurse and the doctor.

[B]

Tell you something, I bet it was the nurse's idea.

[A]

It might have been.

[B]

I bet anything the nurse was just like, you know, you know what? She probably needs some blood. You know what you should do as her. Her brother. I bet you guys have the same kind of blood.

[A]

Okay, well, that's a very feminist reading of this. But I will also say at the same exact time that there's definitely someone in the room who was just like. Like that the whole time. He just shoves a tube into his own arm and then shoves it into his sister. He goes, kiss my nephew for us. Got to get the blood going faster. Like, that's got to be crazy.

[B]

Should we put a trigger warning at the front of this episode about blood?

[A]

No. Whoops. No, we're not showing it. We're describing it in detail.

[B]

Horrific detail.

[A]

Blood, blood, blood.

[B]

So I got. Okay, this is. We're going to take a turn for the worst here. Oh, no.

[A]

You made me fall in love with him like reacher.

[B]

Unfortunately, in 1884, he reads this report by an Austrian ophthalmologist, Carl Collar, describing the anesthetic power of cocaine.

[A]

I called it. I knew I called it. I called this. I called it. I walked in the room and I was like, it's coming up somewhere. Well, this is prime time. This is prime time. Oh, man.

[B]

When instilled on the surface of the eye.

[A]

Wait, they're doing eye coke?

[B]

Who hasn't?

[A]

Me. I've never.

[B]

Your eyeball and your butthole. Put it wherever you want.

[A]

What the fuck? What are you, Stevie Nicks?

[B]

It's 1884, baby.

[A]

Oh, my God. 1884. And they're doing eye drops. They're doing eye bumps. They're doing eye bumps in 1884.

[B]

Well, like you said, he's an eye doctor, and he. He figures out that if you put a little cocaine in somebody's eye, then you can perform a surgery on it without pain.

[A]

You know, Else is an eye doctor.

[B]

Who?

[A]

Rand Paul?

[B]

My God.

[A]

I'm just. That's his thing.

[B]

I hate that guy.

[A]

I know. And he and his wife created their own medical board so that way he could claim he was licensed.

[B]

Yeah, that's quackery.

[A]

That is quackery.

[B]

Halstead, his students and fellow physicians started experimenting on each other.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they.

[A]

All right, this is. This is the danger of. Once you. Once you do gallbladder surgery on your. My kitchen table to your own mother, you might.

[B]

They all got nothing left to lose.

[A]

You really can't hide.

[B]

You gotta have.

[A]

You really can't tell him nothing, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Be like, hey, man, I wouldn't do eye coke. And he'd be like, hold on.

[B]

Not only me, my students, and my

[A]

fellow doctors, this is lit at this point. This is slowly turning into a character from Red Dead Redemption one. Just so you guys know, this is, like, almost verbatim. I think he's a sociologist in that game. You never played it?

[B]

No, I just watched you play it and cry at the end.

[A]

That was red dead redemption 2.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

1 is. Doesn't have as many tears.

[B]

Got It Two, though.

[A]

Two is so moving. If you haven't played it. If you haven't played it and you. If you're in a. If you're in a place where you just have time, I highly recommend it.

[B]

Okay, so these.

[A]

Great game.

[B]

These guys are testing this out and experimenting on each other, and they were able to demonstrate that cocaine could produce safe and effective local anesthesia when applied topically and when injected.

[A]

So they. Okay, got it. So they're. They're using coke as an anesthetic.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When do they figure out it's also a study aid.

[B]

Halstead would also inject himself with the drug to test it before using it on his patients during surgeries. In the process, Halstead and some of his other colleagues became severely addicted to cocaine.

[A]

I was gonna say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we went from the best doctors are covered head to toe in the blood.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To the best doctors haven't slept in a week and are insanely gaunt.

[B]

Dr. Rod Stewart coming to the house.

[A]

Hello. Who is your name? My name is Dr. Feel Nothing. I think you mean feel good. No. Jesus Christ.

[B]

So Dr. Halstead and another doctor, Dr. Hall, were the only colleagues who became addicted that would survive their cocaine problems.

[A]

Oh, my God. Whoops.

[B]

Whoops.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

This is from, like, a crazy time, though, when it comes to, like, vaccines. When they were first rolling out a lot of vaccines was, like, testing that on themselves and their family. And there was something to. Oh, look, I trust this so much. I'll do it. I'll be the first one.

[B]

Right now, right before surgery.

[A]

Yeah. I want to show you it's safe. You don't need to show us. We believe you. I'm going to show you right now.

[B]

Right now.

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Also, of course. Of course, it was an Austrian that unleashed this. Jesus.

[B]

So crack started showing.

[A]

Oh, really? The coke doctor's crack started showing in

[B]

1885 when Halstead published an article in the New York Medical Journal that was literal and complete gibberish.

[A]

He's been driven mad. It's by the demons, literally.

[B]

This was a huge embarrassment, everybody. The medical team was upset. The hospitals are upset. He's upset. He comes down from whatever high he was in when he wrote that at 3am the fact they published it is crazy. They published it probably just to embarrass him.

[A]

Well, this is the part that's crazy, is like, this actually is still a common story.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The amount of medical students because of the way our medical system in the United States is set up and how our Testing is done in others. I've known so many people who have crammed and they've used especially. What's the word I'm looking for?

[B]

Adderall.

[A]

Adderall. But uppers. There's like, another medical term for uppers. I can't remember.

[B]

Amphetamines.

[A]

Amphetamines, yes. That's why. That's another one. But they've. The stimulants. That's what I'm looking for. People who've used heavy amounts of stimulants to stay awake to cram for some of these.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've heard stories, but also known people who have, like, one guy who had, like, they had to hand write their essay, and he wrote it, like, feverishly because he was so ripped on it, but, like, wrote it all just on the same line over and over again until it, like, ripped through the paper. Like, I've known people that have had issues with it, and then it's become, like, ended up in addiction.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because of it. Because they're like, oh, I could do just a little bit. And not knowing the full gamut. There's also. Again, this is the guy who told them to take temperatures and, like, compare them against each other. So he is doing a little bit of the scientific method. There is, like, some testing there. So there's like. There's something in this one where I'm like, ah. And so now us looking at it, we're like, oh, it's very funny that you use cocaine. But much like our asbestos episode.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There is something where, like, you don't know. It's that you just see it initially as, oh, this is a miracle thing.

[B]

Yeah, it's AI. They're like, this miracle is going to change everything.

[A]

You're like, it's going to change everything. Before you know it, you're. You're just out there sucking dick behind the torch factory. I'm just. I'm just saying, like, hey, you guys got any more local anesthetic?

[B]

So I used to be a doctor, this huge embarrassment. His friend Harvey Firestone paid to have him.

[A]

Firestone tires?

[B]

No, Allegedly.

[A]

I don't know. I just.

[B]

His friend.

[A]

I thought you were gonna say Firestein.

[B]

His friend.

[A]

It's me, Harvey Fierstein.

[B]

His friend Harvey paid to have him. Man napped and thrown on a ship headed to Europe. What? Hold on.

[A]

What? They shanghaied him?

[B]

They.

[A]

Wait, they used to do that?

[B]

Yes. That's like they threw a burlap sack over his head. But this is just kidnapped him and sent him to Europe to Europe.

[A]

They said, go to Europe, there'll be less cocaine.

[B]

Yeah, he was.

[A]

That's never been true.

[B]

He was forced to detox on a boat.

[A]

Oh, my God. First thing. Man napped. We used to have proper terms. That makes sense, actually. You have kidnappers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you have. Man.

[B]

He wasn't kidnapped. He's not a kid.

[A]

He's not a kid. He's a grown man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We man napped him. Man napped him. This is just like. This is like the talk shows that when they used to take the bad kids.

[B]

Yes. Oh, Dr. Phil did that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Catch me outside, girl. Yeah, yeah, we talked about that in the Oprah's Evil episode.

[A]

Yeah. And the parrot. But like Paris Hilton got forced to go one of those. And she's famously spoken against them. But this is very similar to that. It was just like, we got to get him out of here.

[B]

Yeah. Man napped. Okay. They put him on a ship to go to Europe where he detox for two weeks on a boat. Yeah.

[A]

Because that's how long it takes to get to Europe.

[B]

What a horrible.

[A]

Oh, and it's old boats, too, so it's rocking.

[B]

God. As someone who detoxed once.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Holy. Well, more than once.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm so glad it wasn't on a steamship going to Europe, honestly.

[A]

Our honeymoon was on a boat. And that was bad enough for you. And that was just one week. And I wasn't detox and you weren't detox. You were just very, very mad.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Mrs. Pete is not like a cruise. Just so you guys know, this podcast will never have a cruise. There's other shows and there's streamers and others they do like. Like the Jericho cruise.

[B]

There are podcasters that have podcasting cruises.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What are you talking about?

[A]

Because it's basically just running a giant hotel.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So they'll do like a three day destination cruise to somewhere in the Caribbean and then you stay on the boat and they'll do like two or three shows and they'll do stuff like that. And then you can go do like a meet and greet. Like, again, the Jericho cruise. You know, like Chris Jericho.

[B]

The rest of the. You're not going to think. You're not going to believe what's about to come out of my mouth. I would do that. I would do a three day podcast cruise to a cute little island.

[A]

There's no cute island. I just want you to know that it's the Caribbean. It's. I don't think that you would get a cute island. I think you'd end up at like

[B]

a cute little island moment. I mean.

[A]

Okay, island moment. Okay. Like Nassau. The blue iguana.

[B]

Okay. I'm just saying, if we became that popular that people wanted to go on a cruise ship to listen to our podcast and eat buffet food and stay in small rooms, I'd be willing to do that for the people.

[A]

You would be willing to do that for the people for three days? For three days.

[B]

No, more than that.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Because the other one was way too long.

[A]

Yeah, it was. We did. We did. We've done two cruises our entire marriage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you maybe promise you never again.

[B]

Never again. But for the podcast, I would.

[A]

For the podcast and for the people.

[B]

For the people. Would I would I Jericho cruise for the people.

[A]

You Jericho cruise for the people. Can I tell you actually what happens with a lot of these cruises?

[B]

What?

[A]

They are also like open boats. So it's like if you don't sell the whole cruise.

[B]

Oh, just regular schmegular.

[A]

Yeah. There'll be like regular people on there as well.

[B]

Funny. That makes me want to do it more.

[A]

I know. And so there would be a too

[B]

many times podcast having just randos come on and be like, what the hell are these people talking about?

[A]

Yeah. And they'd be like, oh no, I'm a favorite.

[B]

Why are they all wearing honks, not quack shirts? What does miscellaneous immorality mean? Who is John Brown? Let me tell you, John.

[A]

Okay, all right, all right. Okay, okay. That's not this episode, but it's a great episode.

[B]

Go back and find.

[A]

I may have catches. Tell you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm very terrified because I just made a little side joke about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you immediately got the money shakes. You start. You really started talking about merch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which leads me to believe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That we need to take a break for this.

[B]

Speaking of having the shakes. So he's detoxing, Right?

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Okay. Now he get. He lands in Europe immediately gets on a boat, comes back to New York and get. Starts using cocaine right away. You can't man that me and make me do what you want me to do, dad.

[A]

So he's got. They got him. That's sober up for a month.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So basically he took a break. Yeah, he took.

[B]

He took a 30 day rehab.

[A]

I'm not enough. I've known enough addicts that have done this where they're like, honestly, it was casting so much that you take a little break. So that way I could. I could get as messed up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Less.

[B]

Oh, okay. That part that Part.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sometimes I think, now this is going to be a controversial opinion. I think sometimes we're deep enough in the episode.

[A]

This is where you put controversy.

[B]

Okay. This is my controversial opinion. I think that maybe people with long term sobriety should get to go to rehab, because rehab's always for the people just coming in, the people detoxing, the people struggling, the people having a really hard time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they also leave a lot. They're like, I don't want to do this. And here's the thing I think is like, maybe at 10 years sober, 20 years sober, whatever it is, five years sober, I don't care. It's your number. You get to go to rehab. Because like now me, I have over decade sober, Right. And I can't just go to rehab, but I should be allowed to. I should be allowed to take 30 days medically paid, go do group yoga, group journaling, sit outside in the sun. This. That's. I deserve a vacation. I've been sober for a long time.

[A]

You're.

[B]

You're.

[A]

Again, again, you were just describing. This isn't. Okay.

[B]

What?

[A]

This is like a lifestyle Bali getaway.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

That's all you're describing?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That. Again, lifestyle influencers who have less Instagram followers than [e-mail] Mania 500 do all the time.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

But they charge like $2,000.

[B]

Okay. So I need to create that for people that are sober and feel that they just need to take a break.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, we. Because again, we're just like, we're drinking.

[A]

You can't do that. No, no, but you can't do that. We have a toddler and.

[B]

And that's the reason I deserve to do that. No, no, because that's the reason I deserve to do that.

[A]

No, because I'm going on tour, okay? And I'm going to be traveling to 12 cities across America@crashingout tour.com. right. So I'm traveling. You can't vanish for 30 days. You can't be.

[B]

So when mom now is done, I go on tour.

[A]

No, that's not how this works. That's not how this works. What we're gonna do is we're gonna wait till the kid's a little bit older.

[B]

No.

[A]

And then maybe we book a couple dates, the two of us.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

And then we go around the country. Maybe we rent an RV and we do. On the road. Huh?

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Too many roads.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Am I talking into it? Maybe we get Mr. Third in the truck and then he follows us with a camcorder and we document it.

[B]

That sounds so horrible and funny.

[A]

It would be. Listen, it would be our heart of darkness. Yeah, Right. Not. It would even be our Odyssey.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. It would not be the Odyssey, because I'll tell you something right now. We're not going into a cave. No, that. Absolutely. Oh, but there's a cave over here. But somebody cool lives in here. No, you don't want to go.

[B]

I don't want to do that.

[A]

Also, you wouldn't eat food from a strange woman.

[B]

No, no, wait. I would.

[A]

This is how he got into these problems.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Get back to Dr. Halstead.

[B]

Okay. So, okay.

[A]

He returns to New York.

[B]

He returns to New York and immediately. Right back into the cocaine.

[A]

Okay, got it.

[B]

All right. Just a little bit. He's going to attempt to cure his cocaine addiction.

[A]

Okay. And this is from a time, like, they didn't really have, like, a good. They. I don't think they even understood addiction at the time. They were just like, you're acting weird. Hit him with sticks and splash them with water.

[B]

Yeah. He's going to attempt to cure his cocaine addiction with morphine.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

This is very much one of those, oh, we have this bug. So we brought in this bird, and now there's too many birds, so we bring it cat.

[B]

And then there's so many cats.

[A]

And now there's gorillas everywhere. Type of feeling.

[B]

Okay. Okay. This. Sadly, this is going to be the start of a lifelong battle with addiction of morphine and cocaine at this point.

[A]

Okay, got it.

[B]

So this is just becomes the reality of his life, basically.

[A]

He is turning into. If you watch any movie that is set like, pre 1910.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There is a doctor that is this guy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They almost always. There's always some sort of tragic doctor figure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who had, like, tested too many things.

[B]

And then like you said about House, House is just a reincarnation of that same idea, except he's addicted to pills. But they play him the same. He has the cane, he does the pills, and he's this tragic figure that's so intelligent.

[A]

Yeah. But because they don't 100% cut his mom open on a table.

[B]

Oh, for sure.

[A]

Just.

[B]

He was right.

[A]

Yeah. You know, it's crazy, actually. Crazy thing about House, I think I've never watched more than, like, maybe two episodes.

[B]

You can't. You can't watch more than two in a row because you're like, I see the pattern now.

[A]

Well, there is that. Yeah, there is that. It was. It was a show designed at a time where you weren't expected to watch every episode.

[B]

Yeah, we didn't have streaming like that. You watched it once a week. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And so you would forget. Yeah, forget that. Oh, it.

[B]

Was it Lyme's disease? Probably.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was always Lyme.

[A]

No, it was lupus. He always thought it was lupus.

[B]

He always thought it was lupus.

[A]

Yeah, they always. Well, no one was. Somebody was all. Maybe it was lupus.

[B]

So hall said when he leaves the sanitarium, he moves to Baltimore, Maryland. Shout out.

[A]

Okay, so you're addicted to cocaine and heroin. Cocaine and morphine. I'm sorry, Morphine. And then you move to the setting of the Wire, like. Like the mood. Like, to show. The Wire is Baltimore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Also huge. Shout out to Baltimore.

[B]

Yeah, shout out to Baltimore.

[A]

I do love Baltimore. Baltimore is an amazing.

[B]

Somebody wrote it the other day. Like, some. I feel like Baltimore and Philadelphia are the same. And I was like, spiritually, we are.

[A]

Yeah, we're cousins.

[B]

Hashtag go bird cousins.

[A]

That's why. This is the reason why Mrs. P. Like, there's like, three comedians in the world that Mrs. P will go to bat for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I am one of them. The other one is Starvie Stavi.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

Yeah. And there was one more.

[B]

Oh, I don't remember his name. You don't put me on the spot.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So his best friend, William Welch, invites him to start working at John Hopkins Hospital together. They're going to go work there as bros.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He worked in the hospital's experimental laboratory.

[A]

I bet. I bet he was experimenting. I bet he was experimenting down there. What are you doing down here with all those Bunsen burners? Nothing. Why are we out of spoons?

[B]

He quickly went back to the Butler Sanitarium and stayed for another nine months. Yeah, buddy. Yeah, buddy. I'm sorry.

[A]

Sorry. He does understand that he has an issue.

[B]

Yeah. He knows.

[A]

This is the one thing that is. I. I think is tragic is that, like, he knows he has an issue.

[B]

Yeah, but there isn't any. There's no. Like you were saying, there's no real solutions at this point.

[A]

There's no treatment. Not.

[B]

And people had no concept of addiction. Like. Like, it's like addiction before. We still don't truly know.

[A]

No, but back then, they would have been like, oh, he's touched by demons.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's just. Like, there's a. There's a thought process. There's not only then. There wasn't any medical look at it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And on top of that, there was no societal look at it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was just these and like, they just didn't. It's not so much they didn't know. They just had no way of processing it. They didn't have a language around it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They didn't have a culture around it.

[B]

Yeah. In May of 1889, he became head of the outpatient department, acting surgeon to the hospital and associate professor of surgery after being recommended by Welch, his bestie. And so there we go.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he think as though he wanted to decline the job.

[A]

He didn't want the job.

[B]

He didn't want the job.

[A]

He's like, look, I have. I'm shaky.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm literally shaking.

[B]

He's like, I don't feel great. But in 1890, he was appointed surgeon in chief of the hospital.

[A]

Oh, that's great. That's amazing. Why are you the sergeant in chief? I'm always awake, awake. Sometimes I do take a nap randomly for three days.

[B]

In 1892, Halstead joined Welch, William Osler and Howard Kelly in founding the John Hopkins School of Medicine. He became the first professor of surgery. Halstead put together the first formal surgical residency training program in the United States States at John Hopkins. So I need you to understand, he is the person that invented residency training in hospitals.

[A]

I'm sorry, what?

[B]

When you picture the TV show Scrubs that did not age well, but that you do love in its own way. Huh?

[A]

And the Pit.

[B]

And the Pit and all these other

[A]

shows about residents where you take people and you drop them in a hospital setting and you put them on like multi day tours where they don't get enough sleep, where they physically can't process the world around them till it breaks them.

[B]

Yeah. And they have to do that for very, very low pay in order to

[A]

become a doctor that was invented by a cokehead.

[B]

Hey. He's a doctor who has a coke

[A]

addiction and a morphine addiction. Well, he balances them inside. Inside of us, there are two wolves

[B]

because he's a pharmacist and he's just, just pharmaceutically handling stuff.

[A]

Inside of all doctors, there are two wolves. A cokehead and a junkie.

[B]

No, not all people are junkies. That's not a nice word to use.

[A]

Okay, okay. He is a junkie, though.

[B]

No, he's a medical doctor who has a problem with that means he has money.

[A]

You're just describing somebody with money. If he didn't have connections and money, he'd be out there on the pier, he'd be working sailors, and he'd be dead because he's getting access to the good shit.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

That's what this comes down to. We, by the way, just so you guys know, please join us@Pearl Mania500.net because I'm pretty sure we have insanely demonetized this episode on YouTube. How? I just. We've said that we've said certain words a lot.

[B]

We can bleep them.

[A]

No, you can't bleep as many times as you said cocaine. This episode.

[B]

Not. Let us say cocaine on YouTube.

[A]

I don't think you're allowed to talk this this much about it.

[B]

It's the history of cocaine. That's not how comedy history podcast.

[A]

I understand that. Okay. But you can't talk about certain histories on YouTube.

[B]

YouTube.

[A]

It's not friendly to the advertisers, which is why we're always thankful for the sponsors that we do get. All right, we love you, Ryan Reynolds.

[B]

Okay, so he gets this job, surgeon to chief. He creates residency. Surgical residency.

[A]

I'm so mad about this. Cause I can't tell you how often I hear about, like, how the residency system is, how incredibly broken it is. How many res. Like both of us from living in Philadelphia and working in restaurants would say, see medical residents and they're like shells of human beings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To break them before they can go. Before they become doctors.

[B]

Before they're like, I'm going to go become a pediatrician.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, no. I definitely. I'll definitely be cool. I'll definitely be calm enough to hang out with kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, we had power issues last night. I got, like, really bad sleep. I'm not fun right now.

[B]

I think you're fun.

[A]

I'm trying.

[B]

Yeah, you're trying really hard.

[A]

I've never worked harder to be more fun. There's a lawnmower that keeps going past our window. There's a lot that's happening right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm still calmer than the cokehead that has been keeping up a century's worth of medical patients. Students. Okay.

[B]

So he. Halston.

[A]

Their whole Instagram reels about people with children who are, like, surviving on, like, two hours of sleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're like, oh, yeah, let me kick the soccer ball. And then they, like, throw the kid. They throw the kid or what? There's, like, a series of these that are going around because it's such a common thing of, like, when you, like, you go, oh, yeah, let me just go click on that. And you realize, like, oh, this isn't. This is actually just a water bottle the whole time instead of a mouth. There's so many things like that like, sleep deprivation is bad.

[B]

It's also a form of torture.

[A]

It is. And we do this. Not only that, but we also do the air traffic controllers, and we compare the two industries, and then we wonder why people die of, like, needless. Oh, my God.

[B]

Halstead trained many of the prominent surgeons of the time, including Harvey Williams Cushing.

[A]

I don't know that is.

[B]

He's the guy who discovered Cushing's disease.

[A]

I don't know. That is.

[B]

It's a neuro. He's a, like a brain surgeon type of guy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Just like, if you. If people have Cushing's disease, they would know that this is the guy that was the neurosurgeon that found out about it. And so it's named after him.

[A]

I don't know. What Cushing's diseases. It's. You named a disease I've never heard of.

[B]

Halstead was said to have certain residency issues when it came to his students. One quote was that working under him was an unprecedented learning experience. End quote. Because of the amount of responsibility he gave to them during surgery. Oh, so he was like a trial by fire teacher?

[A]

Like, literally, that works in a kitchen? Yeah, barely.

[B]

Barely.

[A]

Barely. Okay.

[B]

Okay. Another huge accomplishment of his was radical mastectomy. Was. He was the first one to have done one in the United States. It had been performed previously in France. But the treatment of breast cancer in the 1890s was barbaric, to say the least. Some doctors would remove ribs along with the breast tissue and lymph nodes, causing disfigurement and pain for the rest the. Of. Of their. These people's lives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is when Halstead became interested in figuring out a way to treat breast cancer in a less invasive way. And he did. I have a picture of it. I'll put it below. We're not going to put it on screen. It's rough.

[A]

We'll put a link. Okay.

[B]

Okay. Now, so the. We're talking accomplishments. He's. He's still doing a lot for the medical world. Okay. Even with the residency thing. Okay. He falls in love in 1890.

[A]

1890. Okay. He was born 18. 1852. Okay, so it's 1890. So he's like 38.

[B]

Okay, sure.

[A]

He's like. He's like barely 40.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's done all this. He's not even 40.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

God damn. Okay.

[B]

So he falls in love.

[A]

All right.

[B]

With a woman named Carolyn Hampton, who was the niece of Wade Hampton, the

[A]

third of the Hampton Inns, a former

[B]

general of the Confederate States Army.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

And also former governor of South Carolina.

[A]

Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no. Oh, no.

[B]

Her father died during the Civil War.

[A]

Yeah. Hold on. No.

[B]

Yay.

[A]

He's dead. He's dead. He's dead. He's dead. They shot the racism out of him. All right.

[B]

She was raised by her aunts who hoped that she would grow to marry rich. Specifically, they were hoping that she would grow up and marry a rich plantation owner.

[A]

Well, instead you got a crackhead.

[B]

Carolyn said no and went to medical school in New York to become a nurse.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Where she met Halstead. Their connection was the catalyst to the invention of the rubber glove. I'm gonna let you sit.

[A]

I'm just, I'm. I'm taking a pause. I. I gotta.

[B]

Now, these rubber gloves that she had would later become medical gloves.

[A]

Okay. What we consider like, like latex medical gloves. Like, that's.

[B]

Yes. Because as the story goes, she was working with Halstead as a nurse during surgeries. And Caroline suffered contact dermatitis because of the antiseptic solution. So she would get really painful, awful rashes. Oh.

[A]

Cuz she's burning her hands with acid.

[B]

She's burning her hands with acid.

[A]

And he was like, well, her hands are so pretty.

[B]

I need to keep her hands.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he contacted Goodyear to the tire people. Yes, the rubber tire people. To make her a tailor made set of gloves that she could wear during their surgeries because of this surgeon, Joseph Colt Bloodgood. I swear to God.

[A]

The fuck up. Blood Good.

[B]

I swear to God.

[A]

This is insane.

[B]

I swear to God.

[A]

From Blood Good. Mart.

[B]

Add. You added the use of latex gloves during medical procedures, so this, this like changed surgery for all of time. Also, I do have a picture of the original gloves. Oh my gosh. This is what the original Goodyear gloves looked like.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. That looks like a workman's glove.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not. It's not a dainty. Very tight. Yeah, it looks very much like a latex glove. Yeah, it's the thick. It's thicker rubber. They're not going to make the. The tight ones we do now that Howie Mandel used to put over his head and blow up.

[B]

Yo. Fuck Howie Mandel. Real quick. Come in real quick. I got something to say about.

[A]

Pull it on. Pull on.

[B]

Mrs. P. I got something to say. Because people aren't watching this far into the episode anyway. Like you always tell me.

[A]

Yeah, when we're deep enough.

[B]

We got demonetized. You told me. So what do I fuck?

[A]

Probably. Probably.

[B]

This is. What do I. Fudgeing care okay, go ahead. Howie Mandel has a podcast he does with his daughter. Yeah, I don't watch that podcast because why would I?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But here's the thing. Sometimes that podcast in clips gets served to me on the TikTok and the

[A]

Instagram because I'll have guests that might.

[B]

Because they have guests.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And every fucking time I see their podcast clips, they always have a bottle of Feel Free on their table. Like, if you put your little water bottle right there, every episode is feel Free. And I believe that they are getting paid. That my opinion. I don't know. Because I don't watch the fucking thing by Feel Free. And the fact that they would accept that sponsorship, the fact that we know what we know about how addictive and disabled disgusting Feel Free is as a company, in my opinion.

[A]

And the fact that it's also. Don't forget, Feel Free has an investor, a very specific investor named Mark Wayne Mullen, who is currently the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

[B]

And they were going to make the most addictive part of that Feel Free mix illegal, but somehow. What did you say his name was?

[A]

Markway Mullen, who's friends with RFK Jr.

[B]

Who could have made it not a legal thing to put in stuff anymore. Suddenly. Suddenly we can't possibly regulate that.

[A]

No.

[B]

But, yeah. Howie Mandel, Mr. I'm Afraid of Germs and Shaking Hands, has bottles of Feel Free on his desk. Every time I see that goddamn podcast

[A]

episode clip, you just got tabbed, everybody.

[B]

Upon his retirement, he and his wife purchased the High Hampton Mountain retreat in North Carolina from Caroline's three ants there. Halstead raised dahlias. He got really into gardening flowers.

[A]

Oh, the dahlias. Okay. Dahlia flowers. Like the black dahlia.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That. She is called that because of the dahlia flowers.

[A]

Yeah. So, I mean, that's why. That's the only reason I know the term dahlia. So. So, okay, so this man who's still addicted to cocaine and morphine, who. And who's with his wife, who was a nurse, who was the reason why they invented latex gloves.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now lives in the mountains of North Carolina.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And he is raising flowers.

[B]

Yep. Pursued a hobby in astronomy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So, you know, he's just getting hobbies in his retirement.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The couple had no children, so they just were out here living their best

[A]

lives in some sort of probably weird Southern Gothic mansion on top of that.

[B]

Dinks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dinks in a mansion.

[A]

Dual income, no kids. Yep.

[B]

It can be noted that he did use both cocaine and morphine for his entire Life. He struggled with these addictions greatly. But he did. It was noted that he had weird rules about his drug use, which all most drug users do. Yeah, specifically one that he said, quote, I only use morphine on vacations.

[A]

That's. Honestly, bro, you need a little lorazepam,

[B]

you got a little rest.

[A]

Gotta need a little lorazepam on the vacation. You know, I get that. I understand that. And I'm not yucking a drug addict. It's just funny at this point. This is just very funny. I. Hi, hey. Hey. I only get too chill at the beach.

[B]

Hey, listen, I'm going on the too many tabs three day cruise.

[A]

Oh no you're not. All right.

[B]

Okay, so what if we did it

[A]

on a Margaritaville boat?

[B]

Fuck yeah, dude. Fuck yeah.

[A]

Oh, I was actually shocked you said. Yeah, funny until you got to the airport. So funny until you got to the airport. I thought this was. Was going to be a. You, you're like. Yeah. I was like, okay. Yeah, I actually watched. I watched it.

[B]

Well, cuz I. I started picturing it.

[A]

I know Mr. Third might need to actually clip that and put it into slow motion so we can actually. I watched your eyes go from mad to happy, like.

[B]

Okay, so Dr. William Stuart Halstead passed away on September 7, 1922, 16 days short of his 70th birthday. Live long, my dude. Yeah, he lived a lot.

[A]

He lived like. What's his name from the Rolling Stones? Keith Richards.

[B]

Yeah, because of the blood infusions, man.

[A]

It's from the blood. And then. Yeah, he's just constantly like checking in.

[B]

He passed away from bronchopneumonia as a complication of surgery for gallstones. Like his mom had got it.

[A]

And it's probably because the surgeon was too tired from the residency.

[B]

Yeah, probably.

[A]

I'm just gonna throw that out there.

[B]

So that's everything I have on Dr. William Stewart Halstead. And this is where we got to get into the question, quack or no quack.

[A]

I'm actually going to say shockingly not quack.

[B]

I don't think he's a quack either.

[A]

I don't think so. And the reason why is because of the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He was testing on himself. Number one. I think there are things that he did that were dangerous. Yes, very dangerous. Which I. Testing on yourself the way the residencies were set up.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And some other things along that nature that's like kind of leads me. But the fact that like if you look at the. The whole picture of his life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

More good than evil comes out of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Specifically making sure that we have antiseptic surgeries and pushing that. Making sure the latex gloves.

[B]

Taking people's temperatures routinely.

[A]

I was going to say just the fact. Charting.

[B]

Charting.

[A]

Just charting.

[B]

Just charting.

[A]

Just charting.

[B]

Which residents are in charge of.

[A]

Yes. Which is like, this is just. But this is this type of stuff. And the thing is, is like, I'm not against residencies. I'm against the way residencies are currently

[B]

set up by our for profit hospital system.

[A]

Yes. And in the teaching hospital system as well, because they are making money off it. It's also tied in with American health care in general. There's some other things in there, but I will say big old stamp, in my opinion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not a quack.

[B]

No quack.

[A]

No quack. To the point. Because here's the thing. Would they do cocaine and morphine? Yes.

[B]

So.

[A]

But did he understand he had a problem and actually kept seeking treatment that didn't exist at the time?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I think that this is the type of guy, like, I think that if he. If we had transported him to today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Number one, I don't know if necessarily he would be able to make some of the advancements that he made because there were logical leaps.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That kind of click in. But I think he would have been able to get treatment earlier in his life or he would never have actually ended up in a situation where he would have been addicted to testing cocaine on him himself. Yeah. Now could he have ended up in a different situation where like, you know, a different brand new drug ended up whacking him out? Maybe, Maybe.

[B]

Maybe. I don't know.

[A]

Maybe. But that's a Howie Mandel sponsor. Not ours.

[B]

Not ours.

[A]

So there we go. I do love we. I do love being in this glass podcast house throwing stones.

[B]

Listen, have a good week.

[A]

Have a great week. Even, you know, it's August, we're in quack month. You got a lot more quacks.

[B]

Maybe next week there'll be a quack.

[A]

Maybe next week there'll definitely be a quack. He did have. I will say he had quack tendencies.

[B]

He has some quack energy, but it

[A]

also was the age of quacks.

[B]

That's what I mean.

[A]

And we're in the age of quacks 2.0. The AI quacks, the digital quacks. But you're not gonna find out anything more about that today because this is the end of the episode. Like, subscribe. Comment. Follow us Five stars. Five stars. Five stars. We'll see you next week. Too many frauds. And too many scammers that we wish weren't real. Too many cons and too many spammers, and we're starting to feel like we've got too many tabs. Open it too many times, remember to smile.