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Ask Us Anything: Alex Kaehler on strategic growth
00:31:58
Chicago-based designer Alex Kaehler on how to grow your firm without increasing your workload, using social media as a lower-lift lead generator and why size doesn’t always equate to success.
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- [00:05]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Hi, I'm Kaitlyn Peterson, the editor in chief of business of Home. Welcome to Ask Us Anything where we're tapping your favorite Trade Tales guests to answer all of your questions about building a better design business. Some weeks we'll be workshopping a crisis. In others, we'll take a step back to talk about the big picture. Things like embracing change, hiring, or how to level up. No question is out of bounds. No is too large or too small. And we're keeping it confidential so that this is always a safe space to air your frustrations and share your fears. This week we're hearing from a designer who has stayed busy as a team of one, but wonders what growth might look like for her small firm.
- [00:53]
Question Asker / Solo Designer
Right now. In my business, I will say I'm more of, like a solo entrepreneur, so I'm pretty much myself wearing all of the hats. I do have an assistant, but my assistant mainly helps me with documentation. So I do a lot of new construction work, some remodels. So it's a lot of documentation, making sure all of the selections are in CAD drawings, you know, kind of like the heavy stuff. But I am with the client, pretty much meeting, you know, my week is full with meetings with clients, right. So I definitely need the office assistance, but I'm not at the moment where I'm needing, like, another designer.
- [01:31]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Our question asker isn't necessarily opposed to expanding her team, but past experience at other firms has shown her the downside of too much growth. As she contemplates her next move, she knows that what she doesn't want is to lose her connection to the creative work.
- [01:48]
Question Asker / Solo Designer
I like it that way in the sense that I create this relationship with the client and they like to work with me directly. And I wanted to know what will the career path look like and what is the longevity of staying pretty much solo or having, you know, an assistant, maybe another one. How small can you keep it and still have a long career?
- [02:13]
Kaitlyn Peterson
When you talk about longevity, when you talk about, you know, kind of thinking about having a long career, are you worried about creative burnout? Are you worried about sort of the financial ceiling on how big you can grow? Where does the worry come in for you?
- [02:27]
Question Asker / Solo Designer
I worried about that. If, you know, I'm just myself, I'm not looking out to what is next, right? Because I'm putting my head mainly of, like, what I'm doing on the present. I'm thankful that obviously, and I love it, that word to mouth. It's probably my best way to get clients. But I still think about, like, okay, what's next? And at the same time, I feel like I don't want to grow. One, because I do like the one on one with the clients, but two, because I can say no to things that I don't want to do. You know, I feel like once I grow sometimes I might be on the position of saying yes to more things that might not fit what I'm trying to do just to be able to pay the overhead.
- [03:11]
Kaitlyn Peterson
I hear that. Are there things in your day to day now as you weigh whether or not growth makes sense for you that you would be happy to delegate to someone else if you could?
- [03:22]
Question Asker / Solo Designer
Yes. I mean there's like more admin stuff or like return learning samples and things like that. I mean the, the assistance that I have now, it's mainly like documents, you know, in her computer, trying to get all of the batch documents out. But you know, sometimes like ordering samples for me, dropping samples for me. You know, things more of like day to day going to vendors more than client interaction. I mean, I've been on the other side. So being an employee, so the fear of like now you're responsible for this other person, right?
- [04:00]
Alex Kahler
Ye.
- [04:00]
Question Asker / Solo Designer
And you want to make sure that they can make a living and that they can grow as well. So probably knowing that if I want to stay small, am I going to be a good fit for a new designer that is trying, you know, to learn and grow, etc. A lot of my questions probably come from fear, but at the same time they come from I like where I'm at because again, I've been at other firms where the principal loses all connection to their projects and they're just managing the office as it is and the people inside of it and losing that creative work.
- [04:39]
Kaitlyn Peterson
To grow or not to grow. It's a question all entrepreneurs reckon with. In an industry like ours, where there's no one size fits all approach to success, it can be even more difficult to chart your own path. The upside is that if you're really honest with yourself about what you want to be doing and what you don't, you have the freedom to tailor your firm to fit your strengths. The trick is to look inward and to ask yourself the right questions. As we ended our call, I knew just who to connect with. Someone who had taken a careful approach to building her own team so that she could go all in on the creative work and those big picture business moves. All that and more in just a moment. Today's question is all about growing your business in ways that will keep your focus on the parts of running a firm that you love the most. And to do that, you'll need some rock solid relationships with the brands you source from. If you're searching for a vendor that understands the true meaning of partnership, it's time to start shopping with forehands. Whether you're building a mood board, placing orders, or tracking your shipments, FourHance has developed a robust suite of digital tools to help designers complete their projects on time and on budget. You'll get easy access to assets like high res product photos and lifestyle imagery, which makes it easy to share your vision as well as real time inventory updates so you always have a clear picture of what's available. Even better, features like guest accounts for your clients make presentations a breeze while putting you in the driver's seat when it comes to sharing details like pricing and dedicated support is available when you need it. Explore the benefits of shopping with Four Hands for your next project at four hands.com tradetales. Today I'm joined by Alex Kahler as a guest on Trade Tales. Last year she shared her own journey to realizing that the industry doesn't have a single blueprint for success. I thought she'd be the perfect person to answer today's question. Hi there. Thank you so much for joining me today. Trade Tales listeners heard from you last summer and since then you've had a lot kind of develop in your firm. How have you been?
- [07:07]
Alex Kahler
I've been good. But yeah, there has been a lot of change. So the big thing is that I had my book come out in September
- [07:16]
Kaitlyn Peterson
and it's so beautiful.
- [07:18]
Alex Kahler
Thank you. Thank you. You're so sweet. It's been really fun. It's something to, you know, you've worked on it for so long and it's, you know, two years of work just on the book, but obviously so many more years going into the work that's published in the book and to have it come to life and be out in the world is really exciting. And, and then my side of it has quieted down a little bit, which is nice. And what that left room for was me to think a lot about what I want to do next. And so I've been doing some art consulting work, which is obviously a different sort of pivot on interior design. But what I was able to do was take the parts of that work that I really love, which is sourcing, and then tie it into something that is a little bit more transactional than your typical interior design project. And it's a really sort of unique art consulting structure in that it's really sort of tailored to working with interior designers. It can be something that customers, it can be B2C, but the structure of it is really meant to be interior design facing. And it's not supposed to replace any sort of traditional art consulting. Actually, those people are sending me clients because I don't have a minimum. So it's not necessarily people who are looking to really build investment collections or buy into movements or, you know, researching the provenance of a piece. It's people who want original, beautiful art but don't necessarily have an unlimited budget. And so it's been fun and challenging and a really nice way to stay active in the industry and do something that I love, but also take a breath for a minute.
- [09:03]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Do you have then any big design projects running at the same time or is this really where your attention is focused right now?
- [09:11]
Alex Kahler
This is where my attention is focused right now. This and my kids.
- [09:14]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Yeah. How does it feel?
- [09:16]
Alex Kahler
It feels amazing. I think I spent probably the better part of a year sort of coming to terms with my identity shifting and I really saw myself existing in the world as this full time designer. And I had focused so much of the past 15 years on that. And so making a conscious decision to move away from it was tough and I really had to get comfortable with it. And I. I would kind of pull out and then I would dip my toes back in and then pull out and come back. And finally in the last few months, I feel like I've really figured out what works for me right now. And it is a huge change, but it's also been really lovely and I just notice how much happier and lighter I feel. And I'm so glad that I can find a space to exist in the industry that feels really good for me right now. And I hope that if that ever changes, then I want to go back to full service design that that world will have me. But for right now, I'm really enjoying this.
- [10:19]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Are you ready to give some advice?
- [10:22]
Alex Kahler
Yes. Hopefully I can be helpful. I would love to.
- [10:24]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Well, this week we are fielding a question from a designer who is at a little bit of a crossroads. She's by and large a solopreneur. She has a little bit of support, but she's really looking at what's possible for her and what growth and success should look like if she doesn't ever want to get too far away from the creative work or from the client connection piece. When you heard from this question asker, what was your first thought about the things that she's thinking about?
- [10:58]
Alex Kahler
Worrying about looking ahead to this is just so real. And every designer feels it. You know, I think maybe there's a few really uber creative people out there who want to focus purely on the process and not as much on the client connection. But by and large, I think all designers feel this in some way and it is the battle of figuring out how to scale or if to scale. And I think that there are a variety of different ways that you can go about it. But these were. I mean, that's a very real question to ask and one that I felt constantly through my career. And I was always evaluating and reevaluating. Am I doing enough of the stuff that I love while still delegating so that I can grow and I can scale? And I think it's really tricky.
- [11:50]
Kaitlyn Peterson
I feel like you tried several versions of this throughout the arc of your firm. Kind of looking to address some of these questions in different ways. What had worked for you and what didn't or what were the good things and the bad things about sort of each way of looking at growth in a firm.
- [12:09]
Alex Kahler
I think that there are people out there who are a one man show and do it really, really well. There's a designer friend of mine that I'm thinking of specifically who is just amazing. She just gets it. She structured her business so that it works, that it's just her. She gets that client connection, she gets that creat component, but she structured her business in a way that she does very little.
- [12:37]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Admin.
- [12:38]
Alex Kahler
Yeah, exactly, admin. Like that. You get caught up in the admin. And so how'd she do that? Well, it's actually really fascinating. She has. Her business is structured in a way where she does not take client money. So basically she takes at the beginning of the project their credit card and every single purchase goes directly onto their credit card and then she bills them separately, her markup. And so everything is so. It's so transactional and it just simplifies the entire process. I don't think it could work for everybody, but it works really well for her. And the way that she scales is by increasing her minimum budgets. And so her projects grow. But her workload doesn't necessarily always grow with the, with the budget.
- [13:27]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Right.
- [13:27]
Alex Kahler
Obviously there is a threshold where as the budget gets bigger, the work obviously does increase often because, you know, the house gets bigger and the requirements are more. But in theory she can stay that one person and if the projects have larger budgets, she doesn't have to take as many or whatever it is. I never went that route I knew very, very quickly in the beginning of my business that specifically the things having to do with numbers and money I was just not good at and I needed to delegate that in order for it to be done well. And so that was something I was faced with really quickly was okay. Now, even if I don't want to scale, I need to scale a little bit because I need to bring someone on who's going to fill my gaps. And I always kept my team pretty small. I mean, it was at the biggest, there were five of us. And the reason for that was that I wanted to be the one pulling fabrics and designing the spaces. And I also wanted to be the one doing the presentations and meeting with those clients and getting to know them. And so for me, what worked best was when I finally stopped micromanaging my team and said, I just can't be on every email. I can still do the creative and I can still do the relationship management, but I don't have to have my hand in every single pot. And, and there was an employee of mine who really helped me realize that and was very patient with me as I started to relinquish control over those things that I was so accustomed to managing or at least being a part of. And I think that that's really the first step to scaling is realizing that you're not always the best person for every single thing and you have your strengths. And so if you can play up those strengths and then delegate your weaknesses to someone who has those as strengths, your business will be so much better off for it. But that's someone who wants to, who wants to scale and wants to grow. And I think you have to determine where you fall in that.
- [15:25]
Kaitlyn Peterson
If this question asker wanted to follow in that path and say, I'm going to keep the creative, I'm going to keep the client piece, but all of the procurement, all of the paperwork, all of the billing, that could be someone else. What skill sets are you looking for or how do you hire for that role? And what do you call that job?
- [15:45]
Alex Kahler
Well, the funny thing in this industry is that every firm that has a project manager, their job description is something different.
- [15:52]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Totally.
- [15:53]
Alex Kahler
So for me, that person was a project manager and that person really knew all the ins and outs of a project. They knew everything that was happening, but they weren't necessarily client facing. They were really like an internal person who handled moving the project along every step of the way without being a client facing employee. And I think that that person needs to be hyper, hyper organized and incredibly detail oriented. Like, more so than you even think you could be. Like, my husband always likes to tell me, like, double checking isn't enough sometimes just triple checking in this industry, because they're just. There's endless amounts of details that can be missed and, and that are important to the success of a project. And so I think the more detailed that person is, the better off your. The better your project will run. I always think no matter what your role is in interior design, it helps to just be passionate about design. So even this person who might not be, you know, picking fabrics or, or meeting with vendors or trades or, but someone who just has a passion for it, I think that that really helps drive them. And anyone who works in this industry knows that they're going to be really not fun, not sexy parts of this job. And if you love it and it feeds you, it'll help get you through those moments where you're sort of wondering what you're doing. And there's some jobs that are really just jobs, and then there are some that are like, really cup fillers. And I think that people who work in interior design feel that their job is not only just their job, it's their passion. It brings them happiness. In their free time, they're watching home tours on YouTube and they're scrolling on Pinterest. You know, like, there's very few people who work in design who, like, it's a 9 to 5 for them.
- [17:45]
Kaitlyn Peterson
When you hire for a role like that, you know, is that a fulfilling role for a team member? Like, is it? I think I asked her in our conversation, like, are you a millennial too? Like, I feel like there's so much worry about, like, being a good boss, creating a good work environment. Did you ever, like, not. Not inflicting the things that we came up in the world with on our employees? Is there a person out there who says, oh my gosh, this is exactly what I want to be doing?
- [18:15]
Alex Kahler
Yes, is the answer. The woman who was my project manager for years and years and years was just an absolutely magical employee. She loved design. She was a team player, she was detail oriented, and she was just totally cut out for it. And I remember talking to her periodically through the years, making sure that she felt like she was getting what she wanted out of the job. And she was always the first to say, I love design, but I'm not a designer. And so being in this world is perfect for me and I've found my place in it. And, you know, I think it's easy as a designer and a creative and an artist to look at someone, you know who's a CPA and be like, oh, my gosh, they're doing taxes all day long. Like, those people, they look at us and they're like, oh, they're playing with fabric samples. You know, like, we've all got our things. And I think that finding someone who is detailed and is good with numbers but also happens to like design, like, those people exist. And I get resumes all the time for people who are job changers and are coming from, you know, really corporate backgrounds, but just love design and want to find a way to combine them both.
- [19:33]
Kaitlyn Peterson
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- [20:36]
Alex Kahler
I mean, I think it could be either my project manager was someone who did have work experience, but I think. I think it's more about personality and drive than it is age or experience. I will say that as a creative thinking about being a project manager, I do feel like it's hard to wrap my head around an entry level employee really feeling like this is what they want to be doing. I do think it takes maybe some life experience to say, okay, I've done the corporate thing or I've done the design thing. And I know those things alone aren't it for me. But I'm sure those people exist. You know, people who just write out of school know that they're not a designer but want to be in that world. But I do think more often than not, it's probably someone who's got a little bit of life experience.
- [21:25]
Kaitlyn Peterson
You know, you said at the biggest, your team was five. When did you start to feel kind of shifts in what your role as the principal was. And did you ever feel like you were starting to lose that connection to the projects that this designer is so worried about?
- [21:41]
Alex Kahler
Yes, at times I felt a little bit more detached from projects than I should have been. But I think if I'm really being honest with myself, that had more to do with me and less to do with my team. I think the times when I wasn't as kind of in it as I wanted to be, it was because I had, you know, either something in my life going on that took away from work, or I just wasn't as good, like, creatively stimulated by the project. I never felt like my employees were a reason I was disconnected. I think that if I was in a place where I could be connected to the project, I was.
- [22:20]
Kaitlyn Peterson
How small or how big do you think it is possible to keep a team and still really have your hand in. In everything before you as the principal, start to become the bottleneck?
- [22:33]
Alex Kahler
You know, I experimented with that a lot over the years and talked to a lot of friends who had teams that were bigger and teams that were smaller. I think you can really get pretty big and still be creatively engaged and involved and also be the relationship manager. I think what you have to forego is a lot of the smaller things. I think, you know, maybe you're not the one picking a trim or a pillow edge, but you are really kind of looking at the room as a whole. And maybe you're choosing a hero fabric and someone else is building the textile scheme, or you're looking at a house and saying, I really envision the kitchen to be green, and that's a jumping off point for other things that you collaborate with a team on. And if your name is on the door, I think that you can build a relationship with your clients through trust, that you don't necessarily have to be at every single meeting for them to feel confident in your management of the project. And I think that's. That's really dependent on. On the principal and what. What they want out of it. Because I think you can be. I mean, listen, when it comes to making money, I think you can be a really, really lucrative small and really not so lucrative big and vice versa. So I don't think that size necessarily equates to financial success. I mean, I'm kind of amazed at when I hear my friends who are designers, the really like one or two person shops, the. The type of projects that they're churning out every year and the money that they're making. I mean, I think it's. It's a lot about how you structure your business and the types of projects that you bring on. And if you have dreams of grandeur and having offices in different cities and projects all over the world, you just might need a larger team to support that. It's all about sort of what the end goal for you is.
- [24:30]
Kaitlyn Peterson
One of this designer's big concerns was about the fact that, you know, it sounds like she's pretty maxed out. So she's. She's got sort of a manageable workload in terms of executing, but she was saying that she's not really thinking about lead generation at all. There's just not time for that.
- [24:48]
Alex Kahler
Yeah.
- [24:48]
Kaitlyn Peterson
How did you make room for that? Or what does it take to fold that in or to make sure that's a. That's a task that you're protecting in your weekly or monthly schedule?
- [25:00]
Alex Kahler
For me, lead generation was the only true effort I was putting. There was social media, and I never did any other type of traditional marketing. I just felt like if I was consistently putting new work out there and speaking about my process and sharing behind the scenes, that that was kind of the ultimate way to bring new clients in. And I did, at one point, try to delegate that out. And I was not. It wasn't the path I wanted to go. I just. I wanted it to stay authentic to me and my voice. And I think I just knew at my core how important it was. And so there was just always a few minutes of the day that I dedicated to it. I'm sure I could have been a little bit more intentional and block time on my calendar for scheduling posts and all those types of things, but I wanted it to feel organic and authentic, and. And that was what brought in leads and, you know, word of mouth. And I think that when you're so maxed out, my thought is that nobody's getting enough out of you. And that includes your clients, your employees, yourself, your family, you know, all the people. And you have to leave a little bit of wiggle room in order to fill each of those cups. And so I think when I. Whenever I found myself feeling that way, that I was just so at capacity.
- [26:25]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Like, stretched. Right.
- [26:27]
Alex Kahler
Yeah, exactly. And. And, like, my team would make fun of me because whenever I would get to that point, I would hire somebody.
- [26:33]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Yeah.
- [26:33]
Alex Kahler
Because I was just. I didn't even take a step back to think, like, okay, how could I delegate a little bit more or pull back? I would hire somebody. And that's not the right choice. Because there is a lot of ways to lighten the load that aren't necessarily bringing in another person. And sometimes it worked for me, sometimes it didn't. I think that really evaluating what takes up time in your day and are those all things that you personally have to be the one doing? Because a lot of the time the answer is no. And as a business owner and an entrepreneur and someone whose name is on the door, those are hard things to come to terms with because, you know, no one's gonna take care of your baby like you take care of your baby. And I think you, you really feel that as a business owner. But I think where the most growth happens is where you invest in your team and find people who maybe aren't going to care as much as you care, but just about as much. You know, they're really, they're invested. And, you know, I was really lucky to have those employees who were really in it with me. And that helped me pull back a little bit.
- [27:41]
Kaitlyn Peterson
What are the first things that come to mind for you that she should be outsourcing right away?
- [27:46]
Alex Kahler
It's not necessarily a list of things to outsource. I think it's reflecting on the parts that you absolutely will not let go and the parts that maybe you'd consider letting go. And then also thinking about the pieces that are, that you enjoy the most and the pieces that you dislike the most. Because I think that gets you to the answer, that that lays it out for you. And sometimes it is like talking to a business coach and having someone walk you through what your options are. You know, like we were talking about the project manager role and that job description and how it's different in every firm. That's a lot of what makes this hard for people is that there isn't this like general org chart that we can all refer back to. It is so different in every firm. And for me, having a bookkeeper was, that was just a non negotiable life change. Right? Like it was. I mean, I remember when I hired her and she looked at my QuickBooks and she was like, oh, girl, we're gonna just, we're gonna start over and you are just not gonna touch this from here on out. And that was like night and day for me. So kind of figuring that out for yourself, I think is the biggest, most important step you can take in, in figuring out how to just be happier doing this job. I always said to people, like, I didn't work at another firm before I started mine. I went straight from design school into freelance and then starting my firm. And I think there was a lot of really creative, fun, flexibility in that because I didn't have any preconceived notions of the structure and how things should go and what my billing should look like. I really did it from a place of what felt best to me. And as a result, I think my first few years were really a lot of growing pains that I could have avoided had I worked somewhere else. But with that said, I also think I was able to develop a structure that felt. I felt so confident in. And I always said to people, like, I feel like I could pitch and defend my billing structure until the cows come home, because I structured it in a way that I felt so confident and good, and I didn't feel like I had people pushing back on it. And that was what I wanted. I didn't want, you know, the. The contractor, the billing structure that the person before me had had and worked for them. And then I had to kind of figure out why it worked for me. It's such a gift to be able to build the business that works for you instead of what's been set up by someone else.
- [30:24]
Kaitlyn Peterson
This has been amazing. You've given some great advice today. Before I let you go, I wanted to ask you one more question. What is the best piece of advice you've ever received?
- [30:35]
Alex Kahler
It sounds so trite and cliche, but I really do think it's to trust your gut in all aspects of life. But really, especially in this job, there's so many times where you meet with a client or a potential client and you just get a gut feeling. Or, you know, in my case, I have these big kind of life pivots that I've made in it with my job. And I think that you know what's best for you and listening to that will really serve you in every aspect of this job.
- [31:10]
Kaitlyn Peterson
That's our show for today. Thank you so much for being here and for everyone listening with a question of your own. I'd love for you to ask us anything. Don't worry, we'll keep it anonymous. Please start the conversation by sending me an email@tradetailsbusinessofhome.com if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. And if you're looking for even more great business advice, head on over to businessofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Kaitlyn Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Carolyn Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening. Can I see you here next week?