Ask Us Anything: Christine Vroom on how to pivot when your pipeline falls apart

Summary

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Trade Tales — Ask Us Anything: Christine Vroom on How to Pivot When Your Pipeline Falls Apart

Podcast: Trade Tales
Host: Kaitlin Petersen, Editor in Chief of Business of Home
Guest Expert: Christine Vroom, Principal of Christine Vroom Interiors
Release Date: April 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles one of the most daunting business challenges for interior designers: what to do when your project pipeline collapses unexpectedly. Host Kaitlin Petersen responds to a listener’s question about managing client projects that get derailed for reasons beyond the designer’s control—including medical emergencies, property disasters, financial setbacks, and more. Kaitlin invites designer Christine Vroom to provide expert insight, offering advice rooted in both empathy and business pragmatism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Dilemma: When Life Disrupts the Project Pipeline

• Situation Laid Out ([00:53-03:08])
  • A designer describes losing several dream projects—in rapid succession—to factors like flooding, family emergencies, and failed home sales.
  • Question: How can you balance being compassionate about serious client setbacks without jeopardizing your firm’s schedule, team morale, and cash flow?

2. Christine Vroom’s Background & Approach

• Christine reflects on her journey, her commitment to systems, and the evolution of her team ([05:16-07:51]).
• Emphasizes that while expansion and teamwork are rewarding, managing a larger operation means more oversight and less direct creativity.

3. Empathy & Structure: The Dual Pillars

• Christine’s Core Message ([09:43-11:22])
  • “Empathy without structure will break your business.”
  • Draws on her own experience—facing life-altering personal crises as a business owner—and the need to support both clients and one’s business simultaneously.
• “Part of taking care of yourself is also taking care of your business.” ([10:54], Christine Vroom)

4. Contractual Protections and the Power of a Pause Clause

• The Importance of a Robust Contract ([11:22-13:18])
  • Always have clear pause/restart policies in the contract.
  • “Contract is king.” ([11:34], Christine Vroom)
• Describes the process of defining boundaries for pauses, including fees or conditions for project delays due to emergencies or client-side issues.
• Implementation should be tailored to scenario and client circumstances.

5. Fees, Fairness, and the Human Touch

• Charging Fees During Pauses ([13:18-16:16])
  • Differentiating between a client in a family crisis (where empathy comes first) and a client with financial/organizational mishaps (where structure may be firmer).
  • “The real unfortunate reality is that these are the risks that we take as business owners...” ([13:42], Christine Vroom)
• Practical solution: Take on extra/smaller projects or diversify, so one pause doesn’t cripple the whole firm.

6. Building Resilience: Managing Team and Pipeline

• On Hiring and Planning ([16:17-17:31])
  • Ensure you’re not dependent on too few projects before expanding your team.
  • “If two of these projects fall off, would I be okay? … It might not be the right time to hire someone if the answer is no.” ([14:54], Christine Vroom)
• Accept that project timing is never perfect—when paused clients return, it’s often at the busiest possible moment.

7. The Restart Fee—How and Why

• How It Works and How to Explain ([17:31-18:58])
  • If a client goes dark for six months (outside of crises), a restart fee compensates the firm for holding a spot on the roster.
  • “We’ve carved out this space for you in our roster, which means we’re not taking other projects.” ([17:48], Christine Vroom)
• The fee signals seriousness to clients and accounts for real financial impacts.
• Often, clients understand the need for this policy—especially when they perceive the designer’s professionalism and high demand.

8. Normalizing “Going Dark”

• How Common Are Pauses? ([21:00-22:39])
  • “How often do clients go dark? A lot.” ([21:09], Christine Vroom)
  • Christine shares examples of long-simmering projects that go dormant for years and surprise returns.

9. Navigating Uncertainty, Especially in Early Days

• Early-Firm Challenges ([22:39-25:01])
  • New designers won’t have the safety net of broad referral networks or a big pipeline.
  • Christine candidly shares how she took fewer risks early on, waiting to hire until she was “absolutely buried.”

10. Core Business Practices for Uncertainty

• Contracts, Expectations, and Philosophy ([25:01-27:51])
  • Have a “design philosophy” addendum to contracts, outlining mutual expectations.
  • Be clear about communication protocols, roles, and project continuity policies.
  • Decide at your discretion when to actually invoke (or not) certain clauses—being in the contract gives you options, but implementation depends on the human side.

11. Proactive Anticipation

• Plan for Worst-Case Scenarios ([28:43-29:58])
  • Christine describes herself as “the ultimate anticipator”—always trying to foresee where things could derail.
  • Work with an attorney to create flexible, forward-looking contracts.

12. Common Project Setbacks (and Acceptance)

• Real Stories from Christine ([30:03-32:20])
  • Clients commonly change their minds, move, or simply vanish.
  • Flexibility and the ability to “ebb and flow” are vital. Lows are inevitable, but so are new opportunities—progress is rarely linear.
  • “Empathy without structure will break your business. But being an unempathetic person— that's just not a good look.” ([32:20], Christine Vroom)

13. Two Hats: Designer and Entrepreneur

• Reconciling Passion and Responsibility ([32:22-35:04])
  • Remember, business survival means sometimes taking on less glamorous work to support your team and keep afloat.
  • The way you handle setbacks can build your reputation—even among clients whose projects fall through.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Empathy without structure will break your business.”
  – Christine Vroom ([09:43])

• “Contract is king.”
  – Christine Vroom ([11:34])

• “If two of these projects fall off, would I be okay? … It might not be the right time to hire someone if the answer is no.”
  – Christine Vroom ([14:54])

• “How often do clients go dark? A lot.”
  – Christine Vroom ([21:09])

• “You just have to kind of move. You have a plan, you have a direction, you have to move with life. The more compassion and empathy you have for these clients, the better your reputation will look.”
  – Christine Vroom ([32:20])

• “Wherever you go, there you are.”
  – Christine Vroom ([35:12])

  • A life mantra that helped her through personal crisis and empowers her as a business owner.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Listener’s Dilemma Introduced: [00:53–03:08]
• Christine on Overhauling Her Business: [05:16–07:51]
• “Empathy Without Structure…” — Christine’s Philosophy: [09:43–11:22]
• Contract Clauses & Protections: [11:22–13:18]
• Monthly Fees, Project Diversification: [13:18–16:16]
• Restart Fees—How They Work: [17:31–18:58]
• Normalizing Pipeline Pauses: [21:00–22:39]
• Team Building and Early Business Growth: [22:39–25:01]
• Design Philosophy in Contracts: [25:01–27:51]
• Anticipatory Planning: [28:43–29:58]
• Common Setbacks & Resilience: [30:03–32:20]
• Empathy, Structure, and Reputation: [32:20–35:04]
• Best Advice Received ("Wherever you go, there you are…"): [35:08–37:57]

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Takeaways for Designers

• Combine empathy with rock-solid structure—one without the other is unsustainable.
• Contracts should clearly define “pause” scenarios, restart fees, and expectations.
• Early-stage firms should be cautious about growing teams until project flow is more stable.
• Accept the unpredictability of the design business—make plans, but remain flexible.
• Your reputation doesn’t rest solely on the projects you complete, but also on how you support clients through difficulty.

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Episode Tone

Christine’s style is candid, compassionate, and practical, balancing stories of personal vulnerability with clear, actionable business advice. Kaitlin’s hosting is warm, encouraging, and focused on surfacing solutions designers can use immediately.

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Relevant for: Interior designers, creative entrepreneurs, small business owners—especially those navigating uncertain pipelines and client relationships.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of business of Home. Welcome to Ask Us Anything where we're tapping your favorite Trade Tales guests to answer all of your questions about building a better design business. Some weeks, we'll be stepping in to solve a pressing issue. In others, we'll take a step back to talk about the big picture. Things like embracing change, hiring, or how to level up. No question is out of bounds. No question is too large or too small. And we're keeping it confidential so that this is always a safe space to air your frustrations and share your fears. This week, we're hearing from a designer with a question about a project pipeline gone wrong.

[B]

I would love to talk about keeping clients on track, and I think specifically when life gets in the way and you're trying to follow up without feeling pushy or Tony deaf to what they may be dealing with.

[A]

This designer recently landed several dream projects. And then, for reasons entirely out of her control, each one hit a massive roadblock. Things like flooding, a medical emergency, a house sale that didn't go through, leaving the client short on cash. No matter the reason, each job was abruptly put on pause. Now she's wondering how to pick up the pieces.

[B]

Because this year, I had an amazing lineup of projects, and then I had several where clients went quiet at various points of the process for legitimate reasons, like a family health crisis, financial stress, one house didn't sell that they thought was going to sell or, like, crisis related to, you know, the actual property or structure of the house. And these are all, like, huge things to deal with. So I found myself struggling with how to keep things moving when I did know what was going on with their personal lives. Right.

[C]

And where the thing is so legitimate that you, as an empathetic person, think, of course, take your time. But as a business person, or, like, actually, no, right.

[B]

I'm like, okay. But that was, you know, three projects out of my pipeline that we thought, you know, we would be so busy with. I hired somebody. You know, of course we can pick up smaller things to fill in, but it's hard because there are projects I was really excited about, and I am super empathetic. I think. Like, I have young kids, and even if a client is slow to respond to anything, I'm always like, oh, you know what? They. They just had spring break, or I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, I think, you know, even if they're not dealing with some catastrophe. So, yeah, I find this tricky to navigate. I would love to hear how another designer handles like this tension between maintaining your own style schedule and cash flow and also being just a compassionate human being to clients that you care about and you hope to continue working with.

[A]

What is a designer to do when a pipeline that once felt robust is suddenly rather empty? And how can a designer lead with empathy but still protect their business from the unexpected? As we ended our call, I knew just who to connect with. Someone who has considered every possible scenario that could derail a project and built protections for her firm into her contract and policies. All that and more in just a moment. One of the fun parts of my job is that sometimes I get a sneak peek at product lines that haven't been released yet. The hard part is keeping the secret. Last week at High Point Market, four Hands debuted a collection that I have been so excited to tell you all about since I saw a tiny preview last fall. It's a moody, detail driven selection of furnishings in dark pearl woods and richly veined marbles with luscious textiles and striking metal details. Take the Montez chair for example, which pairs a high pile performance velvet with a deco inspired bent wood arm. Or the Reeves dining table, crafted in solid marble with sculptural details like a fluted base and a refined bullnose edge top. These pieces are thoughtful, design driven statement makers and I can't wait to see them start making a splash in your projects. And that's only a small slice of more than 500 new introductions from Four Hands this season. There is so much to fall in love with at Four Hands. Discover the collection for yourself and start sourcing for your next [e-mail] Tradetales

[C]

today I'm joined by Christine Vroom as a guest on trade tales.

[A]

In 2023, she shared the personal journey that reshaped her approach to client relationships.

[C]

She's someone who leads with empathy and heart and I thought she'd be the

[A]

perfect person to answer today's question.

[C]

Christine, welcome back to the show.

[D]

Hello. Thank you for having me.

[C]

Oh my gosh, of course. How have you been? What's going on for you?

[D]

Oh, it has been a whirlwind of work and more work. Good work, great work. Yeah, we are doing exciting things at the studio. We have a couple amazing, amazing projects we're working on and yeah, we are just grinding in a good way.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

When we talked you had really overhauled the way that you ran your business. How are you feeling three years after that conversation? Do all the systems you put in place, do all the processes you implemented still work?

[A]

For you?

[D]

I mean, I'm really big on systems. I mean, I think part of the reason why we put them in place is to create structure. And that structure has given us so much freedom. We're now super organized. We have ways that we're doing things. Everybody runs very similarly. It's been really helpful. And I have an operations manager who's taken over and relieved some of that pressure from the design team and just overall, great things.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

How big is your team now?

[D]

We are a team of five.

[C]

So did you. You added one or did you just sort of shift responsibilities then?

[D]

I believe from that time that we spoke, I added two.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

I had a couple design assistants, maybe one designer, one design assistant at the time. And then now I have two designers, a studio operations manager, and a full time draftsman.

[C]

Is five. The magic number.

[D]

You know, it's like, I love my team so much, but the more people I feel like I add, the more work that I'm doing. And I'm confused. Okay. I'm like, okay, wait. So there's lots of red lines, lot of oversight, lot of correcting, maybe less creativity than I had thought. And they are amazing and capable. So it's nothing against the team. It's just more. More people to manage, which is. Which is kind of tough.

[C]

The job changes for sure. I feel like every couple of employees,

[D]

it really does change. And I was talking to an owner of another firm a couple months ago, and she was saying, it's just amazing at how little I design. We sat there and we laughed and I thought, well, yeah, the goal is to really be able to do what you love, and this is why we're here. But then the reality is that there's a business to run and you have to find the joys in both.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, what are you most excited about when you walk into work these days?

[D]

I mean, besides these couple projects that are coming to my mind? I. Not to sound a little cliche, but I do really love my team. I'm so happy to come to work. I mean, they are so much fun, and we have a lot of fun together. We do. We're working really hard, but we're just. It's a really good team. I feel like I could be myself. I feel like they can be themselves. I feel like there's just a lot of support and a lot of good, like, female energy going on in the studio. And it's just a really good, safe, happy place to be and work every day. And it feels really good to be able to Say that.

[C]

Well, congratulations for building that because that takes work.

[D]

Thank you.

[C]

Are you ready to give some advice?

[D]

I can't wait.

[C]

Amazing. This week we are fielding a question from a designer who had three projects last year that got put on hold for client catastrophes. There was flooding. There was a client who bought a house that they were working on, but

[A]

their other house didn't sell.

[C]

And so all of a sudden they sort of like, they're coming back, but temporarily, like ran out of money. There's a medical emergency in the family where the client really had to put the project on pause. And in essence, you know, 50% of her business was suddenly not moving forward. Not for anything she had done, but just because the clients had life events that kind of tied them up and took them in other directions temporarily. She called in, she wants to know, how on earth are you supposed to be a responsible business owner while also really responding to these crises that the people you're working with are going through?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, it's hard. That is hard. And those are very intense, dramatic situations. I mean, it would be one thing if someone said, yeah, you know, I just, I really just don't feel like doing my project anymore. Sorry. You know, because then you, you have something to stand on, you know, but when you're in these situations, you're. And hopefully your heart kicks in and you come from a place of understanding. Like, you really do understand it. Like, yes, there's these life situations, but empathy without structure will break your business. And I think that's the hardest part. I mean, where I come from. And the first thing that I think when I hear this is I was on the other side. I mean, I had, I had entered into recovery. I had a very long eating disord. I know that's what we kind of like tapped into the first time we spoke, but very long eating disorder. I had a life changing situation, a kind of life or death situation, and my world stopped completely. I still had my business and I still had to run my business, but I really needed to put myself first. And so I do wind up coming from a place of compassion and empathy.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

However.

[C]

However.

[D]

Okay. However, part of, I think taking care of yourself is also taking care of your business. And so that balance, I think is really tricky because you have, you need the structure to support not only yourself, but your team, however many there may be, and your own finances are at stake because of somebody else's finances. Right. It's a really, really hard pickle to be in.

[C]

Total best case scenario, what clauses would you have in your contract, what approach would you take? What would you do? Again, best case, if this was, you

[D]

know, your client, your firm, contract is king. I mean, I did know, and I'll just say a mini story. I did hear of. I was interviewed on a project, and there was a designer who in her clause said if you. I think if you leave the project, you have to pay the entire design, the estimated design fee in full. And it really turned off the client, and they wound up not going with her because of it. So there's this balance of how do you write your contract to protect yourself? So the one thing that I would do is define the pause clause. What does that look like? I mean, clearly I am not an attorney, and I suggest hiring one to get the verb. Get the, the verbiage down. But it's really like setting limits, even though it's uncomfortable. So defining. I mean, even, you know, it's like any contractual policy, like, what if should be in there? You know, and if there's a life emergency or a family emergency, maybe there is some sort of fee that does need to be paid. Maybe it's like monthly fee. I don't, I don't exactly have the answer for, for what it is, but it would definitely be. I know we have a restart fee in our contract. Something where there's a pause and it affects our business. And so then when we, when we're able to pick up, we do have a restart fee. So something, Something in that kind of realm. Yeah, I mean, and every, every situation is different, so it's hard to. It's almost like you have to just dig into what. How do you protect yourself for X amount of months? I think that's really where I would start.

[A]

Is there a world where you would

[C]

say, okay, these clients need to push pause, but we're going to collect a small monthly fee from them just to keep their project sort of in the firm on our books. Or is that something that. When you have to say that to a client in crisis, does that feel too awful to do? You know, does that feel too bad to ask for?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, it feels situational. Like if somebody, you know, like the example of the selling house but couldn't have. This house kind of thing is very different than somebody's spouse or their self getting cancer. Like, you wouldn't want to say, oh, I'm sorry for this, but I need to collect a monthly fee. However, I might not feel as bad as somebody who maybe didn't plan accordingly. You know, like, my home did sell if that feels very. The tone of that feels very different. You know, oh, there's a hurricane and the house got, you know, destroyed. I mean, you're not going to collect a monthly fee. So I mean, the real unfortunate reality is that these are the risks that we take as business owners to have a business and have to deal with things that are just not comfortable. And so there's not. I don't think there's going to be this perfect answer, but I do think that there is something contractually that we can set up to do that I know for me, I mean, we probably take. Hopefully no clients are listening. Just kidding. We take a good amount of projects, so we are stable. I would not put 50% of my pipeline. I wouldn't be able to sustain my business if I only had a specific amount of a little baby handful of projects with my team. And so sometimes I'm willing to take on a project that may not be my portfolio. Star stellar, no budget, incredible mansion. Sometimes you take project that you just can pay your bills, you know, and it might not be your ideal project, but it's almost like when you hire someone, you have to know, if two of these projects fall off, would I be okay? It might not be the right time to hire someone if the answer is no. Yeah. I mean, because that happens especially like our plans get in the city and then they're stuck for like sometimes, you know, six to a year, six months to a year. And if I just sat around and waited to hit the gas, I'd be in trouble. So I think part of it is contract and part of it is just really thinking about the way that you take on projects and the way that your hiring structure is and really setting up kind of a, like a backbone to your business of planning for the unexpected.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This is someone who, I think this was her first hire and it was, you know, she had these three big projects, plus I think, you know, the other 50% of her business. And she was like, okay, like, to do this, well, I now need help for the first time. So I think, yeah, it required really starting the engine to fill up the pipeline again when all of these went on hold.

[D]

Yeah. And I was gonna say, I mean, you have to have faith in your business and your reputation. And, you know, I'm a big believer in building relationships with the people that you want to work with and, you know, even just communicating like, ah, this happened to me. If you, you know, know any project, like, get yourself back out there and have the hope because it's a Real struggle. But you hired this person for a reason. You know, you needed the help. I'm sure that some of those projects, or one or two of them would probably come back around. And of course, they come back around at, not the opportune time when you're all slammed and busy and they're like, hi, I'm ready to start. And you're like, okay, well, I took two, two other projects to, you know, supplement. And then you're grateful and then you're overwhelmed, and then you're super busy and then you have to hire another person. And that's how it happens. So kind of like flowing with the flow. It's tough.

[C]

You mentioned your restart fee. Can you talk a little bit about how that works when you've had to implement it and how you, how you explain it to clients or how you, how you tell them that's what they're going to need to pay to sort of start again?

[D]

Yeah, we have a. If you're, we basically, if you go dark for six months and not like a health crisis or anything like that, I mean, like, again, I mean, I tend to lead more with my heart just knowing, just having the situation that I had the explanation. And you know, the, the crazy thing is nobody's ever really asked me, but the real explanation is that we have carved out a space for you in our roster, should we call it? Right. So we've carved out this space, which means that we're not taking projects because of this carved out space. And so you're a priority, which is why we can't, you know, we've carved it out for you. And so when we're not working on your project, we have this little hole that we either need to fill with another project, we need to accept a new project that comes our way, or, you know, we need to restrateg. We need to strategize on how we can maneuver some projects internally. So that restart fee, you know, because like I said before, they're just like, cool, we're ready to go. We're like, we're ready. We're ready. We're. We're not even ready. We're like the, the most ready. And you're like, what?

[A]

Right?

[C]

This is possibly the worst time for me.

[D]

Yeah, it is. But it's also like, it feels like every time, it's not just like, cool, we're ready to start. But yeah, whenever you, whenever we know you're. It's really like, great, we're ready to go. We've lined up, you know, our builder and we're like, well, we have to draw the house. So yeah, the restart fee is saying like, we've carved off this space now. We filled the space and now we need to shift around some of our, some of our projects to be able to fit you back in. And we might need a couple weeks. We've also lost money because you've disappeared. And so it kind of covers us on the backside instead of on the front side. It also tells people that we're serious about our work and that we're serious about our communication and that this is, this project should be in a, a forward motion most of the time and we need them like they need us, you know.

[A]

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[C]

how normal is it? Because I kind of want to normalize this a little bit. How normal is it for a client to go dark? Have you had to charge that restart fee?

[D]

You know, I have, but only like, I would say twice. But how often they go dark? A lot. I mean, a lot. I have projects that have been in our pipeline for. I have a project right now that I'm on year three and we haven't even broken ground, which essentially means that I thought I was going to be done with this home, but there were architectural issues with the city and we were just waiting and then I get. It just happened to me in the summer, I get the green light. Well, we're going to, we're going to start building. Well, I never. What? I never even got the heads up that we were cleared from the city. You know, like the plans were cleared enough for us to start doing our design phase. We were still in architectural phase. So it happens. A lot. I have another project that was like, two years later. I mean, they went dark, and we just crossed them. We were just like, okay, close them out. They're gone. And they're like, hey, FYI, we're ready. And we're like, what the heck? So it happens.

[C]

Where were you?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, it happens all the time. And it. Sometimes it's like the phase of their life. It could be their kids, it could be the holidays, and then you get the new year, and then it gets busy, and then you've got X season, and you. Everybody knows how life happens. It just happens. So it's really normal, and it's just unfortunate. And I think that when you're new and when you have a small percentage, like, a small amount of projects, it's a little bit more difficult because you're really, really, really counting on those to build your business and to have income.

[C]

How did you navigate that in the early days of your firm? Just in terms of not, I guess, of being aware or of knowing that you really can't count on something just because somebody started, you know, just because they've paid, just because they've got forward momentum now. How do you sort of calibrate for knowing that they still might just kind of, poof, disappear?

[D]

I will say I didn't take risks. Like, I take risks now. Meaning, like, your first hire is, like, the scariest thing you've ever done. It feels like it's like, oh, my gosh, I have to pay someone, and what if my project. And then, of course, it. This happened to this person. But it's like, what if I don't get projects? I mean, I always had, like, entrepreneur scarcity fear. I mean, I still do. I just. Entrepreneur fear is real. You're like, what if I don't get any more projects? What if I don't do this? What if I do that? I took risks a little bit later, so I didn't hire people until I was just, like, absolutely buried. And I had. This is not advice. Just so you know. This is definitely not advice. I just didn't hire anyone until I felt comfortable, which might have been the wrong move, but at the time, it was right for me, and I just moved a little bit slower until I found a good footing and until I built enough relationships to feel like I had a steady pace going.

[C]

Mm.

[D]

Because let's say, you know, you're new and, you know, one builder and one or, like, two, three builders and one architect. I mean, there's not much of a pipeline. You're gonna get right, you're gonna be waiting for this person to refer you, who you're gonna be in a little pot of referrals. And you may or may not get it based on your pro portfolio and your proposal. So until you build enough relationships and you start networking and you get out there and you meet people and you're part of the design scene, right, and you're in the community of where you live and you're, you know, really investing in those relationships, I think it's, I would definitely think that that's probably a better bet is making sure that you feel really solid and you see, you see some potential income in the future because then you have more hope than if your three projects that were referred by this one architecture drop off.

[C]

When you heard this question for the first time. I know you said you've been thinking about this for a while, kind of stewing on it. What else comes to mind for you?

[D]

I mean it's hard because when you, you know, you care deeply about these clients and. But you still need to run your structured business and those two feel like they're in conflict with each other, but they're not. So I mean, mostly what the first thing that popped into my mind was like contract, contract, contract, contract. And I've had some very, very, very difficult situations in my business. Legal situations, personal situations, health situations. I've been through a lot of different things and I've gone down a lot of different paths. And that is the one thing that rings true is one contract, two expectations. And I think talking about those and being more open about them in your contract we have something that we call philosophy. It's like our design philosophy and it's basically an agreement of expectations. This is what we do and this is what we don't do. It's like if you don't sign it, by signing the contract you're still acknowledging that you've seen it. And it's just a document that we attach that's essentially like our roles, our responsibilities, what we do, how to communicate with us, how to, you know, the times where like some basic things, but also some things that really help define what you do in, in there would be really helpful like to just lay it out if there was a life threatening emergency. But we require X. I mean, I don't even think that that's that bad. You know, if you were in a, you know, if the project drops off for six months, we require X amount of dollars upfront to hold your space. I feel like that's so normal and feels really healthy. The hard part is you would have to decide if you're going to implement it, right? Because if it's in there, you're good. But it's up to you, based on the situation and based on the people, to decide if you really want to implement it. Because you may lose that client in the future if you do, because they might pay it and be really bitter or believe in yourself and have enough faith in your business and your experience and, you know, all of those things. To know like, this is really unfortunate, it's going to hurt for the next couple months, but I'm going to work really hard to build my next project and to work on finding or I'm going to just take this project that came across my table. That might not be my dream, right. But it's going to get me through until they sign back up or until whatever I would say. The last thing that I think of is that the restart fee has been really helpful because if you don't decide to implement it because they just told you about this horrible situation, you can still get some of it on the back end because they will understand because they'll be out of crisis mode just

[C]

in terms of like client relationship, client gratitude or no, but you don't get it back, like, financially, I think you

[D]

do, because if you. Let's say they have. We'll just, you know, do the flood, for example, if there's a flood to their home and they're like, I just cannot do this right now. We have this financial situation, we have to call insurance. And you're like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. But then in four months, they call you and they're like, we're ready to get going. You can just remind them that there's a restart fee. And then you might financially get some of that downtown based on what you put. I mean, whatever your fees are, maybe it. Maybe it attributes to 30 days of work. I don't know. But I think that would be helpful. I mean, and if it is the, you know, a heart attack or like something somebody's parent or, you know, I just, personally, I would not. I would not do that in those.

[C]

Right? Totally.

[D]

Personally, that feels. That feels tough. But when they're outside of crisis mode and they're like, oh, the house flood, it was crazy. We're going to tell you all about it. And you're like, yeah, no problem. You know, here's research. They're like, understand, like, usually it comes from that place, but having that structure is ahead of time, like, now if you're going, you can't go backwards and you can't, you know, you can't say, oh, well, you know, we really expected that, you know, we were going to have this work. And so, you know, we think it's fair. You can't do that. Contract is king. And so I think we're sitting down with an attorney and really like picking it apart. And I mean, I always joke in the office, but like, I am the ultimate anticipator, which sometimes means negative. But, like, I anticipate what could go wrong. I'm anticipating, which makes me, I think, a better designer because I'm always thinking about what, how I can fix the problem before it happens. But I mean, sitting down with your contract and an attorney and thinking about, like, what are some scenarios that would really be hard for me or that would be, you know, detriment to my business or maybe I at least need to pay my employee and I'm willing to, you know, those kinds of things. I would, I would think of.

[C]

Can you tell me about some of the other catastrophes you've sort of planned ahead for?

[D]

Well, I mean, I had this, I had this project that I was absolutely in love with and I adored the clients. They were amazing. So easy to work with. I was beautiful Spanish home. They wanted it very colonial and very authentic. And then they went through the whole pricing. You know, we, we designed the home, we drew the home, we did elevations, full renderings, the whole thing, full stack books. And they just decided, you know what? This just isn't the right property. Are you for real? So, I mean, I didn't do anything. I just, I really had hoped that when you find the right property, give us a call. And I would not call that a catastrophe, but that is the more common story for me is people changing. I was doing a home and then somebody was just like, she just like, didn't love the home. Like, she bought the home, she thought that the design would, like, fix all the problems. And then she had this heart to heart with herself. Come to find out, I'm waiting for us for a start date and she just bought a different house and was selling this one. And I'm like, what the heck? So a lot of, A lot of that. There's been less, thankfully, less crisises. I mean, but you have parents moving. I mean, I had a project that I had designed and they moved to Tennessee and it's. So there's a lot of like moving and shifting that you have to expect. I literally just happened to me in the Summer again designed this beautiful big home. We're in the works. And she decides, no, I think I'm just going to do a small remodel to it. And I was like, what? We don't do that, right?

[C]

You will not be doing that with us.

[D]

Yeah, but we are, because I love her and she's actually incredible. And, you know, that's what I mean is you just, you kind of like, it's not going to be perfect. You have to kind of ebb and flow. There's going to be some highlights and then there's going to be some low lows. And, you know, you just, I think the part of that building is sometimes you take a couple steps back and then you go five steps forward and you take one step back and you. And that's how it feels and that's how you build. You know, you don't even. It always amazes me when we're doing new builds, how much we plan and how much goes wrong. Like, this is, this is new, you know, so even in the most designed to be perfect situations or you're just going to have to be flexible.

[C]

That's such a good way to think about it.

[D]

Yeah, it's what we do on the day to day. We tear stuff down and we rebuild it, you know, and along the way, you're just going to have to figure out ways to do it differently. And that's the beauty of design, is there's no one way. And I think that's how I've always thought about my business is, you know, you, you just have to kind of move you, you, you have a plan, you have a direction, you kind of have to just move with life. And I think the more compassion and empathy you have for these clients, the, the better your reputation will look. And they might even refer you and not even give you a project, you know, because of how kind you were during this process. So, you know, that's why I mentioned at the beginning, like, empathy without structure will break your business. But being an unempathetic person, not empathetic, that's just not a good look. And so I think having both of those at the forefront and being really smart and planning as best as you can for those types of situations and then meeting the clients where they're at and handling it the best you can, that's all you can do. Yeah. And you are a designer, but you're also a business owner, which means that you're responsible for your team and your time and your financial stability. Right. So there's, there's not just one way of, of looking at all of these situations. Like, you, yes, you're wearing your designer hat and you're really bummed that you don't get to do this project, but then you have to put back on your business hat and say, like, okay, what can we do to fill the time, to fill the space? You know, and maybe, you know, you're not doing an ideal thing, but then I think it's all in the way that you handle all in the way that you handle these things that comes up. Because you can burn a hard bridge by just saying, oh, I'm so sorry. You know, here's a $10,000 fee for the last month. Just like, you're going to lose some, you know, you're going. There's. I, like I said, I've been through so much. I mean, I've had someone, I've done a whole design presentation. They approved everything. We have documentation of their approval. We have literally legal notes pretty much, you know, they'd hold up in court on their approvals, and then they just didn't want to pay me. So there, there are losses that you're going to take, and that's just part of being an entrepreneur. And even if you weren't an entrepreneur, I mean, nobody, nobody is secure, you know, I mean, you've got your company you've been working with for 20 years and they have got layoffs, right? So it's part of life that you just kind of need to, like, roll with it in the best way that you can.

[C]

And before I let you go, I wanted to ask you, what is the

[A]

best piece of advice you've ever received?

[D]

So this one thing, this one statement that somebody told me popped in my head, and I'm not sure if it was even advice, but I've hung onto it forever. And she said, wherever you go, there you are. And it was in a crisis of my own because I had spent so much time running away from myself, or however you want to say it. And people will, you know, change jobs, change cities, change careers, change paths, change employees. You know, there's all this change. And I think sometimes. So this is not really work related, but, you know, sometimes we're all kind of trying to find this thing that isn't there or trying to escape something that we can't escape. And she was, she just reminded me that you kind of have to go inside. You know, wherever you go, there you are. No matter if you move to Italy or Tennessee, like, you're not going to run from yourself. And it was just really, really impactful for me to be able to look at myself and look at the things I was doing or the things I am doing and just kind of have this, like, heart to heart with myself of like, okay, I'm going to work on me.

[A]

That's really beautiful.

[C]

Does that show up in your business for you at all as well? That same kind of way of thinking about it?

[D]

You know, I'm kind of at the place and someone told me, like, I'm in my 30s, barely hanging onto them. But I think the older that I get and the more time I spend with myself, I have just such. I mean, in going through what I went through, I have. I'm so proud of myself. I have. I mean, I conquered something that most people aren't able to do. And that gave me, like, that was the most empowering thing I ever did in my life. And that's the. The proudest. I mean, I've done amazing, beautiful homes, and I've done great work. That's the best thing I ever did for myself, was save my own life. And so when it comes up in business is really just like, I feel like I work really hard and I do the best that I can and I try to do the right thing. And sometimes when I'm having those days or, you know, I'm in a business situation, I just remind myself, like, you totally got this. You know, whether it's an intimidating presentation or whether it's a really difficult client. And I just remind myself that I'm that person that conquered this thing that, you know, other people may not be able to do. And so that whole wherever you go, there you are. That's in the positive. Like, yeah, I am that same person in all of these situations in business and projects and meetings and life. And it's just like, I'm really proud to be able to say that.

[A]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for being here and for everyone listening with a question of your own. I'd love for you to ask us anything. Don't worry, we'll keep it anonymous. Please start the conversation by sending me an [e-mail] if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. And if you're looking for even more great business advice, head on over to businessofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Caitlin Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Carolyn Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you here next week.