Ask Us Anything: Live with Arianne Bellizaire and Cortney Bishop at High Point Market

Summary

Trade Tales: Ask Us Anything – Live with Arianne Bellizaire and Courtney Bishop at High Point Market

Released on July 9, 2025 | Host: Caitlin Petersen, Editor-in-Chief of Business of Home

In this vibrant live episode of Trade Tales, hosted by Caitlin Petersen, Business of Home’s Editor-in-Chief, Kaitlin engages in an insightful "Ask Us Anything" session with seasoned interior designers Arianne Bellizaire and Courtney Bishop. Recorded live at the High Point Market, the episode dives deep into the challenges and triumphs of building and scaling a successful interior design business.

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1. Efficient Client Intake and Fee Discussions

The episode kicks off with a pressing concern from a listener: balancing time investment in prospective clients and addressing fee structures early to avoid time sinks.

Key Insights:

• Proactive Fee Disclosure: Both Arianne and Courtney emphasize the importance of discussing fees upfront to filter out non-ideal clients. Arianne shares, “[04:00] I start the money talk before I'm on the phone with them and it starts on my website.”

• Vetting Process: Arianne explains her intake process, which includes pre-screening via website content and intake forms that assess the client's level of investment and project drivers. She states, “[05:13] We ask them, what's driving your decision? Is it the cost, timeline, or scope?”

• Value Communication: Courtney highlights the necessity of explaining the value behind their fees, stating, “[08:38] You have to value yourself... there's an expensive conversation about product fees.”

Notable Quotes:

• Arianne Bellizaire (04:00): “My website should be attracting more of what I want and repelling in a very kind, kind way the people that I don't.”

• Courtney Bishop (08:38): “You are in this business, and you have to value yourself... it took me 15, 20 years to finally say, oh, my gosh, I'm finally worth what I know I'm worth.”

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2. Scaling Operations: Receiving and Warehousing

As design firms grow, managing logistics such as receiving and warehousing becomes critical. The discussion pivots to how businesses can maintain organization and control costs while scaling.

Key Insights:

• In-House vs. Outsourced Storage: Courtney shares her journey from using external warehouses to establishing her own storage units, ensuring better control and visibility over products. “[34:22] We moved from external warehouses to our own storage units to handle multiple projects efficiently.”

• Team Expansion: Building a dedicated team for receiving and inspection is essential. Courtney remarks, “[35:55] Our team is now five strong, handling quality control and ensuring the client experience remains impeccable.”

• Cost Management: Integrating storage and logistics costs into client billing to maintain transparency and control expenses. “[40:09] We include a line item at the bottom of every invoice to cover storage and shipping costs.”

Notable Quotes:

• Courtney Bishop (35:55): “They are part of our family... they understand our brand and can help us figure out anything that happens.”

• Arianne Bellizaire (40:09): “We include a line item at the bottom of every invoice for a percentage to cover all those costs so that we streamline the billing process.”

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3. Navigating Problematic Contractors on Remote Projects

Handling difficult contractors, especially in remote projects, poses significant challenges. The conversation delves into strategies for maintaining project integrity without damaging client relationships.

Key Insights:

• Documentation and Communication: Emphasizing the importance of keeping detailed records and maintaining open lines of communication with both clients and contractors. Courtney advises, “[24:14] Document everything because he's not writing it down.”

• Setting Boundaries: Establishing clear expectations and boundaries to prevent being overstepped by contractors. “[25:00] Don't cave because you're sacrificing a product that only you know is yours.”

• Selecting Reliable Partners: For future projects, the importance of vetting contractors thoroughly to ensure alignment with the firm’s standards and processes. “[30:21] If they're been recommended by a developer who respects your work, that's ideal.”

Notable Quotes:

• Courtney Bishop (24:14): “Document everything because he's not writing it down. If you have to bite your tongue, you’re going to walk in and those walls are going to be a hideous shade of green.”

• Arianne Bellizaire (30:21): “If they're saying, 'we have a great project coming up and they appreciate you,' that is the best thing you could ever ask for.”

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4. Business Development Tips: Focusing on the Business Side

Addressing a live question, Arianne and Courtney offer valuable tips for designers aiming to prioritize the business aspects of their firms.

Key Insights:

• Building a Cohesive Team: Courtney stresses the importance of hiring team members who share the firm’s values and work ethic. “[45:35] Building a team that shares your values is crucial for doing your job well.”

• Personal Development and Marketing: Arianne highlights continuous personal growth and clear, authentic messaging as pillars for business success. “[47:39] Invest in personal development and find resources like mentors or podcasts to enhance your business acumen.”

• Unique Value Proposition: Clearly defining and communicating what sets your firm apart to attract the right clients. “[49:33] Speak about your essence, not just aesthetics, to attract clients who resonate with your vision.”

Notable Quotes:

• Courtney Bishop (45:35): “Write down what you love to do and fill the spaces around that. Hire people who believe in your vision.”

• Arianne Bellizaire (47:39): “Invest in resources that help you grow as a business leader. Your messaging should reflect your unique value proposition.”

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5. Managing Accessories and Client Approvals

The discussion transitions to managing accessories, packaging investments, and maintaining organization within the team to ensure efficiency and client satisfaction.

Key Insights:

• Budget Allocation for Accessories: Allocating a specific budget line for accessories and art to streamline the purchasing process. Courtney notes, “[54:24] We include household essentials and art as separate line items in our budget.”

• Client Autonomy: Allowing clients to experience and approve accessories within the project context rather than making isolated decisions. “[56:39] Clients approve accessories as part of the overall design, ensuring they fit seamlessly into the space.”

• Vendor Relationships: Building strong relationships with local vendors to facilitate easy access to high-quality items and favorable terms. “[56:34] We have great relationships with local dealers and vendors, which helps us source unique pieces efficiently.”

Notable Quotes:

• Courtney Bishop (54:24): “Include a line item for household essentials and art in your budget projections to keep things organized.”

• Arianne Bellizaire (56:39): “Clients approve accessories within the context of the entire space, ensuring cohesion and satisfaction.”

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Conclusion: Emphasizing Transparency and Relationship Building

The episode wraps up with Caitlin Petersen’s concluding remarks, encouraging listeners to engage and share their questions for future episodes. Arianne and Courtney reinforce the significance of transparency, strategic planning, and building strong client relationships as cornerstones of a thriving interior design business.

Final Thoughts:

• Transparency in all dealings, from fee structures to project logistics, builds trust and long-term client relationships.
• Strategic growth, including efficient operations and team building, ensures scalability without compromising quality.
• Clear communication and authentic messaging attract the right clients and set the foundation for sustained success.

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Connect with Trade Tales: For more insights and to join the conversation, listeners are encouraged to reach out via email at [e-mail] and leave a review on Apple Podcasts to support the show.

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Produced by Kaitlyn Peterson and Caroline Burke. Edited by Carolyn Burke and Michael Castaneda. Theme music by Kyle Scott Wilson.

Transcript

[Ariane Belizer]

Foreign.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Ask Us Anything, where we're tapping former Trade Tales guests to answer all of your questions about building a better design business. This week we're sharing something fun, our first ever live episode of the show, which we recorded at High Point Market this spring. Ariane Belizer and Courtney Bishop joined me in the Forehand showroom to field three designer dilemmas. Those questions will be familiar if you've tuned in for recent episodes of the show, but the insights that Ariane and Courtney offer are delightfully fresh. They also took questions from the audience, delivering smart, on the spot advice that you won't want to miss. I can't wait for you to hear what they had to say. But first, a quick word about Forehands. Plenty of brands will tell you that they want to be your one stop shop. Four Hands actually delivers on that promise with more than 6,000 pieces in its line across living, dining, bedroom, office, outdoor accessories and art. The company also entered the bath category last year with an impressive collection of single and double vanities plus damp rated lighting and mirrors. And if you're stuck in your search for the perfect piece of look no further. With more than 2,000 new introductions rolling out throughout the year, the latest designs from 4hands are sure to keep your projects fresh and exciting. And there's always something new to discover. Even better, most of those items are in stock and ready to ship with the designer portal for real time inventory, so you're never caught by surprise and rushing to reselect. Take the stress out of specifying. Explore the benefits of shopping with Four Hands for your next [e-mail] TradeTales.

[Courtney Bishop]

Our.

[Ariane Belizer]

First question is from a designer who's spending a lot of time talking to prospective clients. There is a huge upside for her to that investment when someone signs on, but she's realizing that it can be a time sink when they don't. Usually she's finding out that what scares them off she's had all of these conversations and what scares him off is when she starts talking about money. We're going to take a quick listen to what she had to say.

[Unnamed Designer]

I struggle between pouring a lot of time into each inquiry that comes through, like whether that design call, sometimes even.

[Ariane Belizer]

In person walk through before the client.

[Unnamed Designer]

Will sign on and sometimes they do.

[Courtney Bishop]

And then it's worth it and then.

[Ariane Belizer]

Sometimes they back away once things are discussed.

[Unnamed Designer]

I guess the question would be how soon are you discussing fees when inquiries.

[Ariane Belizer]

Come in, how soon are you Discussing fees when inquiries come in. One thing that stood out to me in my conversation with this designer is that she doesn't have much of a pre screening process necessarily. She's jumping on the phone and talking about how her business works with these clients. And so I wanted to start with that. Can you tell me a little bit for each of you about what your intake process looks like and when you start to paint a picture of the level of investment that someone should expect to make? Yes, we're making great eye contact. You're first.

[Unnamed Designer]

That's what you get when your name starts with a. Good morning, everybody. Are we awake? Did we have our coffee? We're good. Yes. Okay, so I'm going to give you a very controversial answer. I start the money talk before I'm on the phone with them and it starts on my website. So my website is a very powerful tool and teammate for me. It is my sales tool. What I find is people will shop and stalk and watch you a lot more in advance than you realize. And when they get the courage to call you, they've really kind of done their research. So I always say my website should be attracting more of what I want and repelling in a very kind, kind way the people that I don't. And I know I would be foolish to think that money isn't at the top of their mind. So I start talking about the things I know. I talk about if there's a fee for a consultation on my website. Let's let just get this ripper band aid. Let's, let's talk about it. I talk about the ideal project costs, and I do it in a way where it builds value into the best projects that I know our team can serve. So I always position it as I'm trying to help you not waste time calling me if I'm not going to be the right fit. But that conversation for them actually starts before they're talking to me on the phone. If they feel like they're seeing something on the website that they like or that I haven't scared them off with the fees, then there is an intake form that also makes them commit to that. There's one question that's like, hey, you know, like, what's your driving? Yeah. What's your level of investment?

[Ariane Belizer]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Designer]

And then when they get on the phone with me, because I know that I'm a really good salesperson, I know that I'm likely going to convert the sale, but I know there's also been levels of vetting before they even get.

[Ariane Belizer]

On the phone with me.

[Unnamed Designer]

So it makes it a good use of my time.

[Ariane Belizer]

What does that look like? Because I feel like you. I know that on your website, you don't just have a project with a price tag next to it. How are you sort of messaging that this is what our fees are, this is what the furniture investment is like? Where does that actually live on the site?

[Unnamed Designer]

So for us, we actually ask a question about the driver of their decision more than the number. Because people don't know. Y' all know people don't know. So we ask them, what's driving your decision? Is it the cost of the project, the timeline of the project, or the scope? For us, if someone says the scope is driving it, it means they're gonna allow us to tell them what it costs to give them what they say they want. They're not gonna come in and say, I have this much money. What can you do for that? That's not really gonna work for us. When we do that first intake call, I actually start the conversation about money, showing them projects and telling them how much those projects cost. I never let them drive the conversation around what something is going to cost for them because they can't possibly understand all of the nuances of the money. But I will say you liked my website. What project really drew you in? Oh, it's this one. Oh, well, let's talk about it. That was a new construction in 2020, and the cost of the investment was this. And remember, it's 2020. So if you did that today, it would be a little bit more expensive because other, obviously, you know, fees have increased. But that's the way that I introduce the conversation in a way that isn't really aggressive for them or doesn't make them feel bad. I'm really just trying to center them and say, I want you to get the person that's going to work best with you for the investment that you have.

[Ariane Belizer]

Right. Courtney, what does that intake process look like for you?

[Courtney Bishop]

Well, you know, I tend to. You know, I've been in the business a long time, so there's been many, many different phases of how we bring in clients. But, you know, right now, what we're doing is we. I have a business manager that's been with me for 15 years. She is a vetting service for me. I do want to meet the client. If we get past that initial email, as we have the same thing, we have that kind of. That initial info at Courtney Bishop Design kind of questionnaire. And in that questionnaire, it does get the full scope of the project. It asks how they found us. It certainly asks what their budget is, if this is their first, second, or third home, et cetera. And once that vetting process has gone through, my business manager and I decide if that's a project that's right for our firm, then I will take the call. And the money part is always part of that conversation. You want people to understand why you charge the fees that you charge and also your process. Every interior design firm has a different process. There's no two that are the same and the assumptions that are made from a client coming to your firm and wanting to know how you do your business. There's so much unknown for them. And it's really important for me. I tend to start with the process, and I tend to start with what we really can offer them as a design firm when it comes to the full build, all the way to the relationships with the contractor and the architect, the landscape architects. And we try to paint the picture for them what is the ideal project for us. And if they are on board with that type of full scope, then we essentially get into why we charge the fees that we charge. But in the beginning, I think it's a really important question because we went through the same process. I think the most important thing is that you're transparent about how you make money. It's not unfair to discuss why you make money, right? It's part of what you've learned, and it's also why you're in business. You're in business to make a profit. And so if that conversation is uncomfortable for you, then you just need to get over it, because you don't need.

[Unnamed Designer]

Hey, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Everybody ready? This is real.

[Courtney Bishop]

You don't need to do anybody any favors. You are actually in this business, and you. And you have to value yourself, right? And I know that takes time. It took me 15, 20 years to finally say, oh, my gosh, I'm finally worth what I know I'm worth. And to have that, and it takes practice and transparency. And there's several ways that we break down our fees. There's a fee for a monthly fee that we charge for the length of the project, and then there's fees involved with product. And that's the tricky conversation, right? Everybody wants to know, and this may be going into another, but everybody wants to know if they're going to get discounts on products working with you. And what do you charge? Are you cost plus? That is probably the hardest conversation still to this day. Because everybody does it differently. But what we try to do is explain that we have vendors from all over the world. We're pulling resources from a thousand plus artists and vendors, vendors that we really love, working with vendors that typically you would not be able to reach because they're small, mom and pop, really lovely craft artisans. And I try to bring that value to the table and explain to them that we aren't necessarily shopping local here. We are shopping with an international reach. And those relationships are earned with tenure and also with valued client understanding of what we do as a design from what our product is. And so hopefully they've done, just like Ariana said, enough research on our firm to understand that we're the right fit for them and then understand the value of what we're bringing to the table. So it is a tricky conversation, but you. You just have to get really clear on what you're offering. And once you understand and value that that is important and that is something very rare, then you can explain kind of why you charge your fees.

[Ariane Belizer]

Both of you have human roadblocks before a client gets to you at this phase of your business. Right. But I want to talk about, you know, someone who's vetted that client, someone who sort of said, like, is this a fit? Is this a fit? Now I want to pass it on and see if there's an alignment. What are you looking for as that sort of final conversation to say, is this right for me? Is this right for us? What are you looking for from the project?

[Unnamed Designer]

I think for me, I'm always looking for projects that will make me and my team excited. We have earned the right to work on projects that we know, especially because to your point, we know how much heart we're putting into it. We know how much time we're putting into it. We know there are going to be ups and downs. We know there's going to be that morning we wake up and we go, oh, I have to look at this project one more time. Y' all know I'm not lying. That's the real truth. We know there's gonna be that, you know, that huge rollercoaster of emotions. And so I have gotten really honest with myself and said, I cannot sell the job in this high without really paying attention to the fact that I am married to this client for life. Okay, four life. A little sheer leg breaks, they're calling me. I am now a part of their story, you know, and so I'm looking for projects that excite me and that are going to keep my interest during the duration, I'm looking for a disposition of a client, one that feels centered and aligned, and someone who maybe has lived life and appreciates professionalism isn't coming to the table thinking that what I do is just like, you know, a little service that. That anybody or that they can jump in and do. Like, I'm really reading the room and I'm trying to make sure that I do the very best that I can to spot any red flags as soon as I can avoid those. But if I'm going to bring that project onto my plate, then I am going to take care fully of that client. And so I really want to make sure it's going to be worth the energy. I'm committed to the project. I know that's not really, like, technical. It's vibes. What I'm sensing. Yes, the vibes. There you go. It's the vibes. I want to make sure it's the right vibe for what we got to bring to the project.

[Courtney Bishop]

I think the most important thing that I still learn to this day, if they don't know your work or your style and they don't appreciate the work you've done in the past or maybe your portfolio, if they don't really know who you are, beware, because you may not align in terms of your style. There are. There's a gamut of style, right? And. And there may be somebody who's coming in with a little bit more formality than your approach to design, or somebody who expects things to be a certain way or a. A variance of design preferences. And I just, I've found even, you know, even these last few years, if they've been recommended by a developer that's doing a condominium project, and potentially we're getting a call from that condominium project, that's probably not our best client. A client who really loves our work, who follows us on Instagram, who understands our vibe, who understands what we do as creatives. That's going to be a better fit because they appreciate your style and your look. And I don't feel like we have a real look over the last 20 years of design, but I do feel there are these constant threads in the design projects that hopefully they understand and they really resonate with. And if they're coming to us again, when it comes back to this info at kind of questionnaire, we really appreciate being a part of the full story. So I prefer to take projects on from a beginning, home build. And that's just what I've learned now that we're Best at. We're best at the holistic design approach, from concept and design plans, construction set, all the way along to the bed linens. And if we can really get that client through the door, that is my dream client. And if they love our work, sign them up, you know, and she's right. We are in a relationship with these people for life. And those are going to be your best clients. If that relationship was successful, you want that relationship again. That's right. And you want their second house, their third house, whatever. However many times they move or however many houses they buy, that's the one you want. Because over time, you know, that's really. They become lifelong friends.

[Ariane Belizer]

They do.

[Courtney Bishop]

And they treat you with respect. That respect is probably the biggest hope out of the synergy of your relationship.

[Ariane Belizer]

One interesting thing about this question asker is that sometimes in pursuit of winning that local job, she is knocking on the client's door, walking into their project and kind of walking through the space with them before she's got a check, before there are any fees exchanged, before there's a contract signed. When for each of you in your, your process, are you going to the client's house?

[Unnamed Designer]

After I have a check.

[Ariane Belizer]

There's no, there's no tap dancing in the house before.

[Unnamed Designer]

But here's the thing. I have no judgment for that caller because I have been there. I did that for the first five years of my business. I was that girl. And I would literally be in the car before a consultation because, you know, in your business, you go through every iteration and you have, you know, you listen to podcasts and you read articles and everybody's talking about their process and what they do. And some people are like, the consultation should be free. And other people like you charge. And especially when you don't have the confidence, you're like, free. Sounds good. Because I just need to prove myself right. I don't want to feel guilty, I don't want to feel bad. And so I would. I also knew about myself that people, my people would fall in love with my excitement about design. So I knew I could convert it into a sale if I just got in their space and, like, showed them what I could do. So I would go. And then after, you know, a two hour consult where I barely told them all the things to do, and they'd be like, oh, thank you and good night. Damn. I didn't really think that through. After, after that happened a couple times, I remember thinking, okay, you got to do better. You have to save a little bit of the secret sauce. Right. You got to show them that you're competent without giving away everything for free. And I would sit in the car as I pulled up to the consultation and, like, hype myself up. Y' all be like, listen, girl, sit on your hands. If you have to bite your tongue, I know that you're going to walk in and those walls are going to be a hideous shade of green. Don't you say it. Don't you hold it. Tell them you have an idea, and you have some things are percolating. Whatever you're going to do, but hold it. And it took training myself to really breathe and pause and understand that, to Courtney's point, when I figured out that what I should be selling them is a process and not a design, that changed everything. Because what I'm selling is my confidence and my confidence and the fact that I know how to get us from point A to B and so that I can talk about all day. You can try. They'd be like, oh, so what do you want to do? Like, here's our process. They're like, okay, yeah, great. But what about this wall? That's a great question. And in step two of my process, we're going to talk about that wall when we get there. But it's always back to, I am really just selling you the fact that I know how to get us from point A to be in sometimes C. And so once you get me the check, I'm an open book. I'm going to give you all the ideas. We're going to talk, we're going to collaborate. But it took getting there. And I think this question that you've asked and the previous one is really what you hear from us is learning to have confidence. That's the theme, right? She said it, and then she pulled back. She's like, get over it. Oh, maybe that was too harsh. No, we're going in. You have to have a little bit of confidence, because that's really what people are tuning into, and they will follow you anywhere if they feel like you know where you're going.

[Courtney Bishop]

So I totally agree with that. I think for the young girl who's calling in, for me, it was really trying to develop a client base, and so having that initial call, no problem. That was free of charge. I didn't have Mama Blair, we call her in place at the time in the beginning, and so I would take that call, and I did have to sell myself, and sometimes I did have to give some ideas away. But over time, I think it's important that they understand Specifically, if they like what you do, that that is time out of your, you know, other clients. What they're paying for it is time they're paying for it. So it actually needs to be contractually agreed upon. You also need to understand the fees before you go over and give ideas away. But sometimes it takes just a little bit of that giving in order to develop a client base or at least for word of mouth and for the value that you get out of that relationship to just kind of go over and maybe see the project. Also to make sure specifically if you're doing interior decorating, design or also renovation work, you want to get over to that house before you bid it because it may be a money pit and a total headache for you and your team. And you also have to like the house. I mean, I don't mean to say you can't. You're always going to get a great house because you're not. And you have to kind of sweat it out and figure things out. The hardest projects are the ones you learn from and that provides you success in the long run. You only learn from your mistakes, honestly. But sometimes you just gotta make sure you're not going into a home that's not going to serve you in the long run. And also it is important that you're building a portfolio. So you want to make sure that.

[Unnamed Designer]

If you can afford to be picky.

[Courtney Bishop]

Or you just might want to get in there and say, if I take this job, I may be missing the next one through the door. And to me, you know, if they have a great kind of architectural bones of a home, then you potentially will get the photos that you want. And you also need to make sure that you're going to be in it for the long haul, that you can get those photos. So I think you take the first call specifically for no charge at all. Maybe you take a follow up call and then if you feel like you need to go to the home, depending on what the scope of work is before you accept that check, nothing's worth the money. It's gonna cause you a headache in the long run or hurt your business in some way based on the time and the bandwidth that you have.

[Ariane Belizer]

I love that. I'm so sad to say we have to keep moving. We've had another question. Asker who is struggling with scaling up her processes around receiving and warehousing as her firm grows. What worked for the firm when they only had one project is not working now that they have more projects now that their project load is growing. And I Think one of the things that'll come up also is their process is really expensive for their clients right now. And so we're going to take a listen to what she had to say and I'm going to add a little bit of color. My biggest question would be like, especially.

[Courtney Bishop]

On the distance projects where you can't be hands on boots on the ground every week, is how to coordinate with.

[Ariane Belizer]

The partners on the project, specifically the contractor, obviously, and partially the architect as.

[Courtney Bishop]

Well, and not feel like you're overstepping.

[Ariane Belizer]

Just kidding. We're going to do a different question.

[Courtney Bishop]

Right now.

[Ariane Belizer]

So we're going to save this one for last. We're going to do it right now. This is kind of a juicy one. What you heard. There is a caller asking about working with partners. This is the designer who recently encountered her first nightmare contractor. She got brought into the project. Second, it is a remote project. The client loves their contractor. Their contractor also doesn't read his email, works off of old plan sets, costs the clients a lot of money and they're kind of like, oh, but we love him. And she's trying to figure out, I'm not here every day, I'm not here every week. I'm kind of parachuting in every couple weeks, every couple months with this non responsive partner and finding things that are wrong, of finding things that cost this client a lot of money. The other piece of that is it's a great job and the client just asked her to do another job with the same contractor. So now she's married.

[Unnamed Designer]

Oh, gosh.

[Ariane Belizer]

So what I want to talk about really is one, I think she called in originally with this idea of like, do I take this second job? It's so good. But also how do I show up differently? How do I set the tone this time in a way that maybe keeps us on track, saves this client some money, doesn't throw this guy under the bus, but really delivers a better outcome and also stops keeping me awake at night.

[Unnamed Designer]

What do we think?

[Courtney Bishop]

Do you want me to start?

[Ariane Belizer]

The question is.

[Courtney Bishop]

Well, I mean, I'll just say that yes, this has happened to me. I mean, I wouldn't say that. I think there's always a cast of characters in any job, right? And your personalities are going to conflict in many areas. And unfortunately, sometimes we get the short end of the stick. We're the decorator. We're going to be the ones causing the headaches. We're unorganized. There's just a stigma around designers which we've never really been able to get out of until you prove the contractor wrong. And really what I've enjoyed is showing the contractor that the photos that we. From the project, the photos that we developed, those are the ones that are getting attention. And actually we bring a lot of value to the project for his business, even if he's not interested in that type of thing. But the truth of the matter is you really have to be organized and you have to understand what the construction process is. And hopefully you do. If they've successfully completed the first project. He's just a headache with a couple.

[Ariane Belizer]

Of things ripped out and put back in. But yes.

[Courtney Bishop]

Yeah, and I'm sure he was pointing the finger at her the whole time because that's what they. That happens. That happens a lot. They point the finger. Maybe, you know, behind the scenes, they don't. The, the boys club sometimes can be quite intimidating. And you have to just keep your ducks in a row. And so I would suggest never get on text message with the contractor. Always have everything in email. He may not email. Is that part of the question?

[Ariane Belizer]

He doesn't email.

[Courtney Bishop]

He doesn't email. That's another problem. So document everything because hopefully you have somebody on your team, just one person who can write everything down that happened on site. Because he's not writing it down. If that's his personality, he's just all knowing. He's all assuming he's got this job in the bag. He's going to do a great job and you're the one who's going to get, you know, the credit taken away from you, and you're the one costing more money potentially. So write everything down and understand the process. So what I've learned is if you don't know what comes first when in a construction or a remodel, you need to understand that you got to pick the appliance package out first because you got to build the cabinetry around it. This is, you know, architect or no architect, you still want to design the cabinetry the way you want to design it, right? You want everything to fall into place the way you want the house to flow. So you got to understand you got to pick the appliances first. Then you got to go to plumbing because he's going to say, where are those rough ins? And he's going to complain that you use waterworks, or he's going to complain that you use somebody fancy and he can't order it from his teams locally. It's always going to be this back and forth, and you just have to stand your ground. Don't cave because you're sacrificing a product that only you know is yours and they're not going to care in the long run what it looks like. It's you that cares what it looks like. They just want to make sure that it's delivering on time and it's delivering on budget and their client is happy with them. He doesn't care if the client's not happy with you. So you just got to keep your ducks in a row, stay true to your vision and make sure you stay in constant communication with the client. Because if weeks go by without any communication or follow up from you, he's in their ear the whole time. So just make sure you send. Even after every meeting with him, if the client's not on site, you send a follow up notes on what happened in that meeting to your client and copy him. Even if he never checks his emails, you can say, hey, no, this is what happened in that meeting. And even document a few things you talked about fixing. We're going to align this. Never point fingers at the contractor. It never wins. Never point fingers at anybody. It does not serve you in the long run. It's only going to come back and get you. That game can get kind of ugly in the long run. I've had private calls with cabinetry people and contractors and subcontractors on the phone sync. The level of clientele we're working with. They don't want to hear your drama. They just want to know this project is moving along smoothly. So please keep those comments directed at me, to me and not to them. Don't create. You know, it just causes more problems for us all in the long run.

[Unnamed Designer]

Absolutely.

[Courtney Bishop]

So just keep your cool.

[Unnamed Designer]

Easier to keep your cool.

[Courtney Bishop]

Keep your cool. Yeah.

[Unnamed Designer]

Lord, I have thoughts. I have thoughts. Everything that she said is absolutely right. And I think when I listen to this particular caller and think about her situation, she's in the thick of it, she's in the quicksand. So there is no getting out of this particular one. But the opportunities on what happens with the next project. Right. And I think just not knowing the full story, but hearing the setup, the relationship that the clients had with this contractor from the very beginning was her demise. Like the fact that they brought in someone that they loved and trusted and then they like him and aren't even holding him accountable.

[Ariane Belizer]

Right.

[Unnamed Designer]

That disempowers her and she can't change that. Whether she wants to complain about it or not. If they are literally willing to write a check to have something ripped out because he did it wrong and not gonna light him. Cause listen, I would be lighting his ass up on the phone, okay? You would not get a check from me without knowing I'm disappointed if they are letting him do that. What do I look like trying to make, you know, reprimand him when they're the ones writing a check to him? I'm disempowered in that situation. I think that is very telling. I think that, you know, for me, if I were her, I would try to make sure that to Courtney's point, I could start documenting everything I'm doing. I might. If I'm watching you work that way with your contractor. I'm also telling, well, sounds like you're going to get me on a plane more often to go check on the spat. It sounds like you're going to write the check for me to go be a quality assurance inspector on this job sites and make sure that things are getting done. If you're writing checks, let's write checks to me. Okay? And also I would like to fly first class and have a five star hotel. Okay, we're doing it. Let's do it. Start to start to assert yourself to try to save the current project. And I honestly think that I would be looking, like Courtney said, all money isn't good money. That next project, I would probably tell you to find someone that that contractor aligns with, because I know my value, I know what I bring, I know what I'm trying to save you from. And if I am actively trying to save you from that type of inefficiency and waste you're running towards and you're running to. Yeah, running toward and rewarding it. He's gonna check on time and then when I send my bill, you have questions. Wait, why is the. Why is the design fee 50 hours? What did you do? I was fixing my shit. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry.

[Ariane Belizer]

You're good.

[Unnamed Designer]

This is a podcast. I am so sorry, but y', all, I told y' all had thoughts so I would be like, no, ma', am. No thank you for the next project. Good luck with that. We're gonna finish this one. I'm gonna get my photography, I'm gonna get the final check and then I'm going to now have more thoughts about my process moving forward. There are questions I need to ask my clients. It goes all the way back to the full circle, right? The vetting of the client, the questions to ask when I'm not only asking where the client is in the project, but where are you with your contract, have you already selected one? Can I interview? I want to make sure there's synergy before I sign on. So just like we don't want money that's not good money or a project that's not going to fulfill us, we don't want to also be brought into a relationship that's toxic. Okay, bring it back to dating and marriage. Yeah, I'm not trying to be a part of that. So now moving forward, I just have different ways that I would really ask myself questions about the next project, especially if it's out of state. I would think about the areas I want to work and I would say I want to go do a scouting trip first. I want to meet the trades and the vendors and I want to start building relationships if that's an area I want to do more work in so that I'm not caught flat footed when a client brings me a really great project. So I think there is getting through this one and then there is very nicely passing on the next and then looking at processes and procedures for how to make sure you're not in that state of disempowerment in the next project.

[Ariane Belizer]

How much of this project being remote is probably part of the problem. And how do you vet remote versus local jobs differently?

[Unnamed Designer]

I think that, I don't think, I think that it happens to be an out of state, but you can have contractors down the street who also move that way. Right? You say yeah, mm, right. So I think that that just is another level of difficulty and challenge. But it could happen anywhere if you don't have the right process or you're not asking the right questions.

[Ariane Belizer]

Do you vet those remote projects differently? Are you looking for anything kind of like extra right. When you have to travel or when you can't be on site?

[Courtney Bishop]

I just like the remote projects where the contractor actually knows your work because that's the one you want. If they're saying, oh, by the way, we've got this great project coming up and they have been talking about potentially bringing you in and they appreciate you, that is the best thing you could ever ask for. However, you want to go somewhere, you want to go. Right? You want to go somewhere with one flight, not two. You want to go somewhere that you know is maybe has a beautiful view, but you know, it takes time, of course, and you're going to have to decide whether it's worth your time. And it's also a good project and relationship for you to take that location. That's so true. You do need to start manifesting where you want to go.

[Unnamed Designer]

Yes, you do. You have to be very intentional with everything you want to do. And you also have to talk about what you do and who you like to work with out loud. You'd be surprised how many people are listening and could call into or connect you to people because they heard you talk about who you want to work with. So you have to like, not just keep that inside. You have to start saying, you know, I love working in Tampa, Florida and I would love to work with a luxury builder and people will process that. And you never know who knows a person who could connect you to someone with that project. Speaking of Tampa, I had a project in Tampa and the first thing we did when the client called us because we had built a trust with this client on previous projects was they asked us, who do you recommend you work with as the contractor? And I flew to Tampa and met with and interviewed contractors and interviewed the AV company and interviewed the cabinet company. And I, because I wanted to bring to the table the right a team for this. That's part of why they hired me, right? To really think about who works well with us and who we would work with. And it was a beautiful project. That contractor was amazing. I wish I could gift him to the caller because he read the documents, he read his emails, he would FaceTime with me and say, hey, we ran into this hiccup, but here's my suggestion. It was a beautiful relationship and now we're looking for more opportunities to work together. But it was really because we both came to the table with very clear expectations, a respect for each other and, you know, just the confidence in knowing. He understood I couldn't be there. So he had to be an extension of my team as an eyes on the ground to make sure that things were moving, moving along.

[Caitlin Peterson]

We all know that art is essential in any interior, but not every client has the budget for gallery hopping. And that doesn't mean that they should miss out on the opportunity to live with vibrant works that will elevate their own home and bring them joy. That's why designers in the know turned to the Four Hands Art Studio, which works with more than 175 artists to create thousands of unique pieces, all handcrafted in Austin, Texas and ready to ship within three weeks. Fourhands has a dedicated team of curators, printmakers and framers who partner with independent artists to create a range of styles and sizes from gallery wall essentials to large scale statements. They also use the latest high tech scanners and 3D printers to reproduce each and every nuance of the artist's original piece, all with an eye toward the variety of subjects, mediums and sizes that designers will need to outfit a home. If you're looking for a place to start, check out some of my favorite artists featured in the program, including Sarah Zelinsky's organic paintings on raw canvas and Scott Kirk richly textured mixed media works. You can find the inspiration for your next [e-mail] art-studio we're going to pivot back to receiving.

[Ariane Belizer]

Yes, I think let's take a listen to that. Are we good? Let's take a listen to that caller Now.

[Courtney Bishop]

We used to receive at a warehouse. You know, they charged us per package.

[Ariane Belizer]

They inspected it, but as we got bigger then we got our own storage.

[Courtney Bishop]

Units, pay our own people to receive inspect and that's been fine as we have one home. However, we have multiple coming up.

[Ariane Belizer]

I know that these larger firms out there, their homes are bigger and larger and many more and across the country.

[Courtney Bishop]

So I just wondered how they keep.

[Ariane Belizer]

Their sanity and keep it organized all while keeping costs down as much as you can for a client. Marty, we're going to start with you because you solve this problem in a very larger than life way. I want to talk about that first, but can you tell me about your process of opening a receiving business?

[Unnamed Designer]

Sure.

[Courtney Bishop]

And you know, it's been a journey. We've had a receiving business now for over five years, maybe six. I think for me it was quality control and having a complete and thorough experience for my client that does not lead anything to question or anything that could go wrong. And as designers or people working in this field, you know how many things can go wrong specifically when you are working with a full home, FF&E coming from all over the country, potentially internationally. I just had this experience where I was not in control and I could not complete the client journey for them. I had this leftover. Oh gosh, I hope everything comes in okay and I hope it looks good and I hope that we can get it installed in the short window of time I have with the installer.

[Ariane Belizer]

There are so many people nodding right now. I just want to say amazing.

[Courtney Bishop]

I mean, believe me, I knew away this was going to be a problem for me specifically because I had seen too many faces of too many men specifically in this field that were just frustrated that I asked them to stay a little bit longer or ask them or their response was we weren't scoped out for another hour or we weren't scoped out to do this part of the job. And honestly, the end of the project is the time in the project where the client is going to remember truly how they feel about the results of working with you. So there's many, many things I could add to how we've refined that experience and journey for the client. But one of the major ones and one of the ones that my team states every day is thank God for CBDT because they're part of our family. There are five guys now that are creative, they're smart, they're patient, they're kind, they understand the brand, they understand where we're going, they have positions and titles that empower them and they can really help us figure out anything that happens. And not to mention, if something breaks or goes wrong, they're right there to answer the call. And they have now developed relationships in the community where they can get things fixed quickly for us. You know, hey, refinished or reupholstered or there's some sort of tear or scratch that happened along the way, they're on it. You know how long it takes to get even an insurance claim figured out when somebody scratches and scratches a piece of furniture. But now I understand even how important it is to understand who's bringing you the products from specifically vintage product or one of a kind product or things that are coming from all over the country from different vendors now, how important it is to know who those drivers are because sometimes they'll roll up with no blankets, Stuff is just packed all over the place and you don't have any recourse because you may be able to get in touch with the driver, but they'll say you didn't hire a white glove or you didn't read the contract. So getting a little bit more aware of the process and what your firm is offering your client and then understanding that you possibly can venture out. I love that. This caller said, you know, we started to get our own storage units and.

[Ariane Belizer]

Hired a team of part time people to be like, these are our people receiving, storing and then delivering.

[Courtney Bishop]

Eventually, yeah, that's how we started. You know, we had, I don't know, four storage units. The problem for me was I couldn't see the product and I buy a lot when I see it that I love, that I know will enter a project in the long run. That's how we get the good stuff. If you have just, you know, you start buying a few lamps and a few extra drinking tables and things that you love that are vintage. But I started buying product and I started storing my clients product in our Storage houses. And my husband started building a team to help me and support me. However, I couldn't see it, so it bothered me that I couldn't walk through and see all of the things that my clients had in their piles.

[Ariane Belizer]

How many storage units do you have to have before it makes sense to rent a warehouse?

[Courtney Bishop]

Totally agreed. And I would say the long game, and if you're in this for the long run, and if you have family members to support you or even people in your company that are valuable to stay for the long haul, I would say that looking for a small 2,000 square foot warehouse of some kind more in the future. But if you could buy something that has a little land and you could potentially build on it, that would be the dream. Right? It's very hard to find in a lot of the cities that are up and coming and growing, like Charleston. But I would say the first one we rented was 6,000 square feet. And we also at that point then started reaching out to designers in the community. So truly the storage fees are paid for by our other clients. And so that's ending up a revenue stream for us. So that is truly the goal is to start really honing in on ways that you can control the process. You can expand the customer experience to be a good one for them and not nickel and dime them with all these bills that are coming in from the receiving and the inspection and the delivery guys and the shipping on the end. And we pull all those costs and we put a line item at the bottom of every invoice for a percentage to cover all those costs so that we streamline the billing process too.

[Ariane Belizer]

That's so smart.

[Unnamed Designer]

I love it. I have not. I am winging a prayer. Winging a prayer when that truck rolls out. I used to think that, you know, it's definitely a deficiency, it's definitely a need. For the past four years, I've been saying, ah, you know, if I had the time and space to figure it out, I would so do my own receiving warehouse. Because it is so hard to find one that does that part. Well, it is truly someone that has to have a passion for logistics and understanding, you know, how to handle product and categorize product that I can see in my mind what it could and should be. But it is a completely different business model and project that I would have to invest in. So I love that you've done that. And I probably need to get your card and be the designer that pays you to do it because it's such an important step. And really, it's you know, not even just delivering. It's catching when things are delivered and looking and inspecting the boxes and being able to get a replacement while we're still within warranty. Sometimes they're storing things months before we are installing. And if you don't catch it by the time you open that box, we really like your sense, has no real, we have no recourse.

[Courtney Bishop]

Can be very expensive.

[Unnamed Designer]

Yeah.

[Courtney Bishop]

And you can't file insurance claims without raising your insurance, you know, monthly payment. So it's all little costs.

[Ariane Belizer]

How do you get clients comfortable with those costs?

[Unnamed Designer]

I have learned to talk to the clients about what it costs us to get things to you. So when we look at a project, I no longer sell one thing. Right. I'm not selling you a lamp or a pillow or whatever. I'm selling you a full concept.

[Ariane Belizer]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Designer]

And by the time we've gotten to the full concept because of our process, you've already greenlit us on that budget range. Right. So my commitment to you is because we signed the contract, we're very open and honest about our, you know, what your scope is going to be. We you have aligned that you're going to give us the space and pay us while we develop the concept to know what the right recommendation is and price it. When we bring that to you, we're going to tell you how much it costs to get it to you. That includes an estimate for storage, freight, shipping. And it is an estimate because again, everything is based on time. So I think by talking about it as a part of the whole cost and not a oh, your budget was xyz and by the way, there's these extra fees.

[Ariane Belizer]

That's when it comes to percentage of that is going to be shipping.

[Unnamed Designer]

Yes. And it's a big percentage. When you look at the freight storage installation, especially people who are used to seeing things that are shown as free shipping, they're like, that's another room. I'm like, yeah, girl. Yeah. But that's the way that's what it costs. Right. And so I don't hide it. I don't like, you know, hiding in fees. It is literally a line item. It is something just like tax that I cannot control. But at the end of the day, by the time all those columns add up, our team has done such a good job of trying to keep you within the range of where you said you wanted to be, you couldn't argue with me. That line item, it's what it costs us to get that vision to you.

[Courtney Bishop]

I've just found that with all the changes in what's happening in the world. There's so many unknowns for that client. So I would prefer to tell them on the front end in the contract what these costs could be. There's so many things that we have to do. And to your point, it's like choreography. It's this major production, and you've got three years of trying to get all the best pieces in their budget along the way. And we've got this unknown timeline for getting those pieces to the warehouse. And so for me, it's inspection, storage, receiving insurance. It's all the things that cost us money. And if you just tell them upfront that this is a fee, a line item fee that you're going to receive on every line item of cost of good, then it helps them process it on the front end. So on the back end, it's not like, hold on a second. Even though you told me I'm still not comfortable and I can't stomach the number and could you do this any better? For me, it's very similar to time billing. The questions that come later are such a complicated conversation after the fact that I'd rather just knock it out in the beginning. So I'm very pleased at what we've been able to do, but it took time and it took a school of hard knocks to learn and some expensive mistakes and a lot of frustration to get to where we are now. But I'm really pleased to share that information because it's worthy of your client's gratification. Right. And satisfaction, which brings them back to you. How they end the project with you is whether or not they're going to hire you back for their next project. And if that's the ideal best client for you because the relationship was so good along the way. They trust you and you are transparent and you actually didn't hassle them with too much information along the way. Then they come back to you.

[Unnamed Designer]

So true.

[Ariane Belizer]

We're going to pivot for a minute. Does anybody here have a question that they would like to ask? We've got a hand right here. Amazing.

[Courtney Bishop]

Good.

[Ariane Belizer]

I like that you said, I always have a question. That's perfect. Hello, ladies.

[Courtney Bishop]

Hi.

[Unnamed Designer]

Been following you both for a long time.

[Ariane Belizer]

My goal and objective for my business is to think more of the business.

[Unnamed Designer]

Side than the design.

[Ariane Belizer]

So could you give me two tips or pointers on when I'm thinking of.

[Unnamed Designer]

My business as a brand? What to be cognizant of when it comes to the business side of the business?

[Courtney Bishop]

Two.

[Ariane Belizer]

Just two.

[Courtney Bishop]

Because we'll be here a long time.

[Ariane Belizer]

Thank you.

[Courtney Bishop]

Okay. I think the business side is actually the best side to focus on because the creative side is always going to be there. Right. But you have to be able to manage your company and manage everything that comes with having this kind of business. I would say that the two things to focus on is building a team that has your same values and work ethic and understanding that those hires are extremely important to your ability to do your job well. And not everybody's going to be the right fit. We talked about this before the podcast. It is one of the hardest things, I think, being an entrepreneur. It's really finding the right people and also having the ability to hire more people to support you. But being able to do the thing you love most is the end goal. Right. So if you get the right people in place that can do the things that maybe you're not so great at or the things that you don't want to do, then what does that look like to you? So I would spend some time writing that down for yourself. What do I really love to do? What have I always loved to do since I can remember? And try to put yourself in that position and fill the spaces around that as you can. And I do think somebody who believes in you and believes in the business that you can grow together as a team, making them feel like they are part of a team, that's really important. So for one, the team that you're building, and for two, I would say the true enthusiasm and authenticity of who you are, to always put that forth. Don't worry about trying to make people happy. Just people say this all the time. And I think it's more and more true in the creative industry than anything else. Just always go with your gut, with what you love, with what you love to put together, with how you like to present yourself. And don't listen to what other designers are doing in your town or even the way they do their business or even their fee structure. Just do what you feel is right for you. Right? Yeah, of course.

[Unnamed Designer]

Yeah.

[Ariane Belizer]

That's really good.

[Unnamed Designer]

Two things. Okay. I think for me, one of the things that I love most about running my own business is personal development and growth and like, diving into that. So I would tell you, as you're focusing more on the business side, really think about the resources that you can invest your time in to continue to pour into yourself, because there's so much to learn about how to run a business business. We're all creatives, but that business front end part does not come naturally. So whether it's good podcasts or books or, you know, getting connected to a mentor who maybe is five years ahead of where you are, but they're in line with where you want to be and have that person as a sounding board, I think those are ways to make sure that your growth as a business leader is always at the top of your mind and not an afterthought. If you don't intentionally set aside time to consume resources, it will never, ever be a part of your day. You'll be in the thick of the creative. Right. So fill out the time and get the resources that you need to build into yourself. And then the other thing that I would say, and this probably comes from my background, is being in marketing. Messaging is so important. You guys have heard me talk about, like, how I talk about what I do. And I think that, that if you can figure out how to talk about your unique value proposition, nobody can match you on that. Nobody can shop you on that. They can interview five different designers. But if you are so crystal clear in what you deliver in terms of your experience and your expertise, your fee for that and what it costs you to get them, that experience cannot be shopped across the board to another designer. So really figuring out to what Courtney said, what is your essence? How can I speak specifically describe that and speak about that? And I am the person who believes your words are powerful.

[Ariane Belizer]

Can I say it's also. That's not aesthetic, probably.

[Unnamed Designer]

No, it's not aesthetic. For clarify. Yeah, yeah. I'm talking about your vibe, your essence.

[Courtney Bishop]

Right.

[Unnamed Designer]

It's not aesthetic because obviously you want to work with clients. You know, you want them to want your through line. But we are not like Kelly Werstler, where you would look at a picture and be like, that's Courtney, that's Arian. We want you to see the family or the client that we designed for. But the process and the through line of how we did that is always going to be there. The ability to really articulate your value, the experience you are creating and how you're going to change someone's life is something that you can attach whatever price you want to put to it, and you have to start speaking it confidently so that people really believe that you can deliver that. So I find that when we're not clear on our North Star or that we're too shy to talk about it, that's what keeps us stuck. And as you pivot to wanting to focus more on your business, stop talking so much about the aesthetics. Talk more about the essence of who you are and that's going to attract the right clients.

[Ariane Belizer]

Yeah, that's amazing. Do we have other questions in the room? Yeah, we've got a question right here. Yeah, I'm just curious as to when and how do you approach your clients about taking pictures of the finished product or how do you convince them if they're, you've designed a beautiful space but they're not anxious to have it photographed for you to be able to use?

[Unnamed Designer]

That's a great question. Yeah, we ask at the beginning. It's part of my vetting process. I'm not trying to do work for free and I'm not trying to do work that I can't photograph. So I'm sorry. So if you know, you are that person who is very, very, very private, I appreciate that. But we have worked really hard and we would like this to be pitched to some big publications. So it's a part of our intake. We ask are you comfortable with. Obviously we're not going to to disclose your address or any personal photographs or anything, but we want them to know that the expectation is that we'll be able to photograph the project at the very end and if they give us an indication. And then there have been clients who have told me that's non negotiable and I'm like, we are not the firm for you. I know that about myself. We are not. And I know we're going to do best work and it's going to be something that I'm going to be like my little iPhone. I don't want to do that. So we talked very early about it.

[Courtney Bishop]

It's in our contract as well. There are exceptions. There are people in the community that really don't want others to know that we are working with them or also just. And also where their home is or what their house looks like. So we just take each case by case. But hopefully we have three or four really great projects to photograph a year.

[Ariane Belizer]

What would be the client you take where you know you can never photograph it, but it's worth it for your business?

[Courtney Bishop]

I think word of mouth is the best thing you can do for your business. So if they have and they respect you and they're kind to you along the way, no matter who they are in society, even if they're high profile, if they're really kind people and they will spread your name throughout those communities that only work with people through word of mouth because they've had a great experience with you and there's been benefits for our firm on several occasions. And also they're hosting a lot of events with their other peers in the community and they know you were a part of that project. So it can lead to some really good jobs and potentially a really great project that you can photograph that will get the attention of a very lovely editorial feature, you know, in a high profile magazine.

[Unnamed Designer]

Thank you.

[Ariane Belizer]

So we're looking to up level our accessories get in that beautiful bedding, the pillows, the object in different spots, but also use our time efficiently. What tips would you have for both packaging that investment to clients and also keeping things organized as a team? Oh, that's a good question.

[Courtney Bishop]

I love this because that's the best part of the project for me is finding all the unique objects. That last layer, the key is to talk about that up front as well when you're providing. Hopefully when you've accepted a job and everybody's on the same page about your design fees and your potential product cost plus or whatever you're proposing, or if it's straight retail, that's fair too. I would certainly include a line item in your cost budget projection for household essentials and art and accessories and then bedding and all of the linens and that layer of the project which we kind of put into our workroom processes because we're sometimes doing customized bedding and sometimes we're buying different pieces across the board. But it's part of that last layer that really makes the project unique to that client and it really brings the character forward. So I think it's important that you make sure you estimate a pretty great number for the household essentials. They can always come back. I'm sorry, household essentials and art and accessories specific, different line items.

[Ariane Belizer]

Is there a percentage that you. Is it a percentage for you or is each room different or how do you calculate that?

[Courtney Bishop]

It is a percentage, but I know it better by the total line item budget. So, you know, typically I know what I'm going to hold based on the last project. And the last project, if I'm going to hold 60 to $80,000 for art and accessories. And then there's that special piece of art if you bought it with me. That didn't count in the budget from the beginning, right?

[Unnamed Designer]

I mean, it's literally like 60 to $80,000 and accessories come through.

[Courtney Bishop]

Yeah, it adds up. It adds up.

[Unnamed Designer]

Like, damn. Okay, I love it, I love it, I love it. We do percentage.

[Courtney Bishop]

I'm building you up. This is great manifest.

[Unnamed Designer]

This is who you need to talk to. No, we do a percentage as well. We talk about it up front as well. Our process is that we try to keep our eye open. We don't have a huge warehouse, we have storage units. But we do try to keep our eye open for things that we love, like found items or things that we feel like, like, you know, might be good to add to a project. We also have really great relationships with local dealers and vendors. And we have a process where we will actually, at the end, even though we've told the client the budget, the proposed budget for accessories, because we no longer let them choose whether they want to do it or not. It just. Your project doesn't sing if they don't. It also means that we've gotten time to work with the clients, see what they have, and maybe pull some of their pieces in and give them a new life. But at the end, when we're doing the installation, to give the clients the full vision of the space, we will do all of the accessorizing, all of the furnishings, everything that we know came out of that budget. And we will also go to our local vendors for any gaps and check out items. They will give us, you know, accessories, art pieces, whatever we need to fill in the spaces. And they allow us to have those things for 72 hours so the clients can see them, experience them, live with them. And then the clients, for us, they want to keep those things. We just bill them, you know, the cost plus the markup. If they don't, we bring them back to our vendors. But I will tell you, most times when the client sees it, we have very rarely had to take things back. So it's mutually beneficial because it allows us to build strong relationships with our local vendors for those few items. But also, the clients have a buttoned up, complete project. They don't have these little loose threads where they're like, oh, you know, this is so beautiful. I wish we had another piece of art that, you know, they're going to need that. So if you can just give them the full experience, it really is beneficial.

[Ariane Belizer]

How much are each of you having the clients approve those, like, small items? You know, are you seeing that?

[Unnamed Designer]

No, I'll say it's too small. They certainly can't get it at the beginning. They can't get it. They have to see it in the context. If I show you something this big and say, do you like this little figurine? You'd be like, how much? 550. Oh, absolutely. No. But to see it on a bookcase, you know, fully styled, and it's within that budget, again, to Me, my framing is you've already approved the budget, right?

[Ariane Belizer]

It doesn't matter how we got there.

[Unnamed Designer]

It doesn't matter how it got. That's my hope. That's what I'm driving toward. I want them to give us the freedom to put the right things in place and not be looking at the one little thing or the individual line.

[Ariane Belizer]

Item that cost me. What?

[Courtney Bishop]

No, it's so true. And if you break down the budget at the beginning for the client, once you've signed on and you've got the line item budget per room based on your furniture plan and your floor plans, you can still have that line item. You can have several line items at the bottom of the projection and you just then filter that budget number that was appro into a spreadsheet that shows the accessories that you're buying along the way. Because we're at market, right? We're going to see things we're going to want to buy. If you have that money up front, that's a whole nother conversation about requesting deposits up front.

[Ariane Belizer]

Do you have that ready to go?

[Courtney Bishop]

Yeah, if you have the budget approved. And then my advice would be to start getting deposits up front for percentages of that total budget so that you can buy to the rest of your question, so that you can buy those things along the way. Because otherwise you're racing to the finish line and your profit margin gets smaller because you're having to grab, you're having to express ship, you're having to run to the retail store where they're not offering the bigger discounts. And there's so much opportunity to meet those vendors along the way and honestly, to make quite a big, you know, little percentage of profit on the end.

[Ariane Belizer]

I think that's an amazing note to end on. Thank you both so much. Forget ordinary.

[Unnamed Designer]

Thanks, guys.

[Caitlin Peterson]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for being here and for everyone listening with a question of your own. I'd love for you to ask us anything. Don't worry, we'll keep it anonymous. Please start the conversation by sending me an [e-mail] if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. And if you're looking for even more great business advice, head on over to businessofhome.com trade deals is produced by me, Kaitlyn Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Carolyn Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you here next week.