Podcast Summary: Trade Tales – Ask Us Anything: Michael Hilal on How Good Photography Drives Growth

Podcast: Trade Tales
Host: Kaitlin Petersen, Business of Home
Guest: Michael Hilal (Interior Designer)
Date: September 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Trade Tales centers on the pivotal role of professional photography in modern interior design businesses. Through a listener's question about missing the chance to photograph a key project, the conversation delves into the evolving necessity of capturing and promoting one's work, the tension between old-school and social-media-driven paradigms, and practical advice for designers on how (and why) to prioritize project documentation. Guest designer Michael Hilal—whose practice thrives on impactful use of photography—shares candid insights into his evolving systems, balancing client relationships, and knowing when it's worth picking up the camera.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “One That Got Away”: The Missed Opportunity

• Listener’s Dilemma: A veteran designer describes losing the chance to photograph a beautifully decorated project when the client moved unexpectedly.
• Old vs. New School: The listener, whose career began before social media, questions if she needs to shift priorities in light of today's visual-driven market.
• “I just wish I had made that a priority to get someone in there because then suddenly once it's gone, it's gone.” – Question Asker Designer (01:11)

2. Navigating the Changing Landscape of Design Promotion

• Reluctance Toward Promotion: The designer admits to feeling disconnected from "the grind" of constant content creation for social media and is unsure whether to adapt.
• Portfolio Through Word of Mouth: She relies heavily on repeat and referral clients, with her online presence not being the main driver of business.
• “There's almost been like a little bit of whiplash... You kind of see these people, you know, they're photographing everything all the time. They suddenly have these huge portfolios. It's impressive... but I guess that's not always my motivation.” – Question Asker Designer (03:11)

3. Michael Hilal’s Perspective: The Power of Thoughtful Photography

• Evolving Systems: Hilal discusses continually refining business systems, including leveraging AI for organization and inspiration—but is clear that AI doesn’t write his design copy.
  • “We're improving the way that we're doing things... we're actually utilizing AI... just on my phone alone, I have 35,000 images.” – Michael Hilal (07:07)
• Design Over Time: Both he and the listener develop projects gradually, making it tricky to determine when to shoot. Hilal argues for understanding the client’s life rhythm and waiting for the right moment.
  • “Part of it is just reading the client, like, understanding if they're done or not.” (13:21)
• Impact on Growth: Michael credits strategic photography and subsequent publication as critical to his rapid business growth—even when much of his work arrives through referrals.
  • “It pays for the photos... Kind of like moving your business in the right direction in terms of how you’re contextualizing clients in those projects.” (16:28)

4. The Client’s Perspective and the Photography Process

• Gaining Consent: Hilal doesn’t mandate photography but negotiates sensitively, offering options for privacy and anonymity.
  • “We can frame it in a way that it's a bit more discreet... Essentially like every client... has been pretty receptive to that.” (18:49)
• Respecting Their Space: Michael emphasizes transparency and clear communication about what shooting entails, editing for press, and the marketing function of the photos.
  • “We may edit down your stuff because these are for publication... There’s also a marketing aspect to this for us.” (22:30)
• Minimizing Imposition: He uses a professional stylist, so clients feel less burdened by the process.
  • “It feels a little bit more disciplined when you have a stylist on site… People have defined roles. It also sounds very fancy.” (21:18)

5. Prioritization: Knowing When and What to Shoot

• The Reality of Scheduling Shoots: Even for Michael, logistics can be a challenge, especially if projects aren’t truly finished. He pushes clients when needed but focuses on readiness more than frequency.
  • “We are doing a horrible job at that right now... We just could not meet the deadline. But... the client, one of the clients is the house in Monterey that we shot. And they love how beautifully it turned out.” (24:18)
• Advising the Hesitant Designer: Hilal suggests a pragmatic approach—aim for at least one thoughtfully documented project per year.
  • "If you can shoot a project a year... you could honestly get a few press hits out of that one project." (31:34)

6. The Value of Quality Over Quantity

• The Marketing Payoff: Investing in professional photos and a well-assembled team generates lasting assets—publications, social media momentum, and spiderweb effects through the networks of stylists and photographers.
  • "Your photographs are for your portfolio and they’re for professional use… If you shoot a good project... it's not just you promoting... it kind of like spiderwebs out to all these other people that have essentially touched the project." (32:52)
• Avoiding FOMO: Michael warns against letting “fear of missing out” or industry pressures dictate decisions. Shoot what you’re proud of, when it makes sense for your business and evolution.
  • “Put aside any sort of like, bullshit FOMO... Focus on what will photograph well, and also expands the dialogue of your design language.” (35:27)

7. Memorable Advice & Philosophy

• Stay Humble & Engaged: "Never put on airs. Never be afraid to like, roll up your sleeves. I've cleaned toilets before... If you're gonna ask anyone to do anything, you should be willing to do it yourself." (37:58)
• Business is Service: No task is beneath the designer—exceptional service begets referrals and trust.
  • “While yes, you might be a creative, you might be a designer... at the end of the day we are in customer service.” (39:02)
• Ask Questions: Don’t fear rejection or uncertainty; the worst response to a question is simply a no.
  • “Never be afraid to ask a question because the worst response you're ever going to get is a no.” (40:21)

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• “I just wish I had made that a priority to get someone in there because then suddenly once it's gone, it's gone.” — Question Asker Designer (01:11)
• “You really have to [think about photography], even if you could frame photography as not a necessity because you've got a good influx of business... but it is good to have portfolio pieces to show your clients.” — Michael Hilal (14:44)
• “The product is far better... if you have been able to assemble like a good team, you know, strategically, like some photographers and stylists already have relationships with those publications...” — Michael Hilal (32:52)
• “Put aside any sort of like, bullshit FOMO... focus on what will photograph well, and also expands the dialogue of... what her design language is.” — Michael Hilal (35:27)
• “At the end of the day, we are in customer service... we have to do it with the utmost integrity and... the nicest manner for the client.” — Michael Hilal (39:02)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:51–04:27 — Listener’s Question: The one that got away & reflecting on promotion
• 07:07–08:48 — Michael Hilal on evolving business systems and AI
• 11:44–12:27 — Michael’s own “project that got away”
• 14:31–16:42 — The impact of published photography on business growth
• 18:24–20:36 — Negotiating photo rights & handling client hesitations
• 24:18–26:56 — Practical struggles in scheduling and prioritizing shoots
• 28:14–32:17 — Adapting to industry pressures & shooting for the right reasons
• 32:52–35:12 — Building a high-impact, collaborative photography process
• 35:27–37:54 — Michael’s “pep talk”: Quality, not FOMO; finding your own pace
• 37:58–40:21 — Michael’s best professional advice

Takeaways for Designers

• Prioritize quality, not quantity: Concentrate resources on documenting your best, most finished projects.
• Shooting isn’t mandatory: It’s about your business goals—don’t shoot just to keep up with social media.
• Build a great team: A pro photographer and stylist elevate the result and multiply your reach via their networks.
• Communicate openly with clients: Transparency and respect about the process fosters trust and willingness.
• Stay grounded: Humility, hard work, and service are as important as creative vision in building a successful practice.
• Don’t fear asking questions—or hearing ‘no’.

For designers feeling pressure to constantly document their work, Michael Hilal’s advice is clear: shoot less, but make it count. Thoughtful, professionally captured images can fuel business growth and strengthen your brand far more than chasing every fleeting trend.