← Trade Tales
Trade Tales
How making a handbook for her firm helped Isabel Ladd fall back in love with design
00:58:32
Isabel Ladd on how she knows when it’s time to raise her rates, why her team includes a dedicated social media expert, and what it took to put together the handbook that guides her firm’s processes.
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- [00:03]
Isabel Ladd
You don't hire an attorney and tell them what to do. You don't have an artist paint something, but hold the paintbrush as they're painting. So I heard an analogy like that and I was like, oh yeah, I'm the designer. I've got this.
- [00:19]
Caitlin Peterson
Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Trade Tales. We're back for season seven of the show, where I'll be talking to interior designers about the challenges, pivots and perspective shifts that come with growing a design firm. My hope is that you hear your own why echoed in these stories, or an idea, or a way of doing business that sparks your own breakthrough. I hope it helps you realize that even when times are tough and entrepreneurship feels lonely, you're not alone. My guest today is a designer whose lifelong penchant for pattern and color set the stage for a maximalist approach to life and design. But after several busy years, she realized that she was falling out of love with her business. She explained how focusing on our process helped her recapture the spark. I can't wait to share it with you, but first, a quick word from our sponsors. This podcast is brought to you by Mitchell Gold and Bob Williams, now a proud member of the Suria Inc. Family of brands beloved for its heirloom quality American made upholstery. With extensive customization, Mitchell Gold and Bob Williams will be debuting a range of fresh new frames and fabrics at the upcoming High Point market. Don't miss out on one of the best designer resources in the business. Visit MGBW.com today to open a trade account. This podcast is also sponsored by the Shade Store. The Shade Store offers designers everywhere a simplified resource for handcrafted custom window treatments with a team of dedicated design consultants available to guide you through the material and selection process. A vast network of measure and install professionals to ensure the perfect fit in over 150 showrooms nationwide. The Shade Store offers the bespoke customization of a high end workroom backed by the support of a national organization. Let the Shade Store take care of the window treatments for you. Sign up for a trade account today@theshadestore.com™.
- [02:34]
Isabel Ladd
Ever since I was a teenager and a young adult, I have always gravitated towards children's clothes. My high school friends would always tease me because I would literally wear clothes from like the Children's Place. I went to Los Angeles to try to be an actress and one time I was walking during like the college fair where they're recruiting people for grad schools and Someone stopped me and was like, that's a cool jacket. Did you make it? And I said, no, but I can. That person turned out to be recruiting kids that had graduated from Loyola Marymount University, where I was at school, to go to fashion school. And she was like, oh, so you have an eye for textiles. You must really like textile design. And I was like, what's that? So I asked Jeeves, what is textile design? And then everything, like, came together for me, and I realized, oh, the reason I've been wearing children's clothes for so long, long, is because I love pattern. That's how I discovered textile design.
- [03:34]
Caitlin Peterson
That's Isabel Ladd. She quit acting and transferred into a textile design program at the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising in Los Angeles. After graduating, she got married, moved to Kentucky, and started to put her design talent to work.
- [03:50]
Isabel Ladd
I came to Kentucky and I actually started making dresses for people because, again, I was just so into fashion. My clients either had a wedding or I was doing their bridesmaids dresses. I was doing their own wedding dress or debutante dresses or just, like over the top cocktail dresses. It just didn't spark joy because what I love is sourcing the fabrics and designing the dress. I just realized I like visionary stuff, not nitty gritty execution.
- [04:21]
Caitlin Peterson
With two kids at home, Isabel shifted into the role of stay at home mom. Along the way, she began to channel her creative energy into curating her space, which soon grew into something much bigger.
- [04:34]
Isabel Ladd
I always loved redecorating, and I love entertaining. So with that, friends just started asking me to help them with their house. And one thing led to another. To be honest, the professionalization of this was because I had wanted to get a divorce, but I wanted to be financially independent. I did not know what I was doing. I would use my mom's credit card, and my clients would write my mom a check. And then my mom would put it into, you know, my business account. I'd be so price savvy, I'd use, like, all the coupons. And then my mom and I would take a pickup truck. Cause my parents have a farm. And so we would take the farm's pickup truck, drive two hours away to put the stuff that I found at an outlet in the pickup truck, cover it with the tarp. But that's so cute. I would not trade that for anything. Because that's just the story. That's the truth. That's how I started. And here I am.
- [05:27]
Caitlin Peterson
By 2015, Isabel had gone all in on design. I wanted to talk to her about how she knows when it's time to raise her rates, why her team includes a dedicated social media expert, and how she makes clients feel heard without sacrificing her vision.
- [05:45]
Ashley
You know, you talked about having these clients in the early days of your business who were like, yeah, just go to the outlet for me.
- [05:52]
Isabel Ladd
Yeah.
- [05:53]
Ashley
What have you done from the beginning to foster that level of trust with clients?
- [05:58]
Isabel Ladd
I think it might be my personality. I love people. I'm very likable.
- [06:05]
Ashley
Is that something you cultivate intentionally, or has that just always been something that happened in your work?
- [06:11]
Isabel Ladd
Oh, it's happened to me my whole life. Like, people pleasing, teacher's pet. Like, it's been me since birth. I've gone through a lot of therapy, just so you know, to get out of the people pleasing mindset.
- [06:23]
Ashley
Can I ask you about that? I mean, how has rethinking people pleasing impacted the way you show up in your business as your career has evolved?
- [06:32]
Isabel Ladd
Oh, love this question. All right. In the beginning, I lacked confidence, and a lot of that was because I lacked experience. And a lot of that is because the clients would lead the way of telling me what they want, how they see their space. But then as I became a better interior designer, that means I would start going to trade shows. I would get my eyes and hands on furniture. I would read great magazines. That was all my education. So by me going on all of these business trips and networking and business coaching and all of that, that made me a better designer. And then there was a pivot where I realized that people are hiring me because I'm creative, I'm organized. I guess in the beginning, I would show clients multiple scenarios. Here's your living room in warm tones. Here's your living room in cool tones. I'll get the sofa that you want me to get. Blah, blah, blah. So now there was a shift where I was like, no, I'm the leader here. I have really interesting creative ideas that you may not be exposed to, but I am because this is my job now. And so I would just ask a lot of the questions before I started the design, but then when I did the presentation, I just give them the best option. Sure. If they don't like something, I'll reach into my magic bag of tricks to. To show other samples that I was considering before I came up to this ultimate sample. But that is just how I operate, which is, you know, that's a lot of confidence. And to the client, it's like they're. They're not the designers. They don't need to see all the options. They just need to see the best one.
- [08:25]
Ashley
How long ago did that shift happen for you or how far into your business were you when you kind of changed your approach in that way?
- [08:33]
Isabel Ladd
About halfway. Okay. So I've been, this will be my 10 year mark. And it was about five years in that I decided that. But also, every shift has happened every time I've raised my rates. So in the beginning, it was imperative that my clients let me be so experimental and go to outlets and do all of that because I needed to learn. So I'm very, very, very grateful for that beginning. I don't want anyone to get me wrong and think that I'm dissatisfied. So then after two years, right, because that's when I was gonna divorce and that's when I was like, oops, need more money.
- [09:17]
Ashley
Need to tighten this up. Yeah.
- [09:19]
Isabel Ladd
Yes. I worked with my life coach time, and she was like, raise your rates. And I was so scared because a lot with my people policing. So I went. So I talked this out with my therapist and I was like. And she was like, what is your fear of raising your rates? And I was like, my fear is that my previous clients will think that I'm taking advantage of them because I would never raise a rate in the middle of a project. But I did raise it from the next, like, phase. Right. Of a project. Right. So the fear was clients will think that I'm taking advantage of them by raising my rates. Second fear, clients will say, no, no one's going to hire me at a bigger rate. So then I raise my rates. So when I raised my rates that second time, the clients that were now in this, like, that's my previous clients, that it was a hard conversation for me to say, hi, I'm sorry, but I've raised my rates. Right. People pleasing starts with I'm sorry. I never say I'm sorry anymore. Just so you know. So anyways, so with that, my previous clients were like, oh my gosh, congratulations, that's so great, you're growing. Or the old client, my previous clients would be like, oh, well, lucky me that you have already designed half of our house at the lower rate. Great, I got a deal, you know, or other clients would say like, oh my gosh, I'm seeing you all over the Internet, you're so fancy. I'm just so grateful that you have time for me.
- [10:54]
Ashley
So none of it was the stuff that you were afraid of?
- [10:57]
Isabel Ladd
Exactly, exactly. That's like fear based mentality. And I'm actually there was one instance Where a client had said, oh, you know, that's more than I was expecting. I was counting on your $75 an hour. So I'm just gonna pass. No hard feelings, but I'm going to pass. And I was like, great. No problem. Pass. Then she hired me, like, a few months later, a year later, where I had increased my rates again. And I was like, you're not going to want to hear this, but it's higher than the last time I told you. And she said. She was like, that's fine. It's worth it. I had a different experience, but when I hired someone that was just starting out, I want you back. And I was like, okay. But then at that point, it was like, okay. But it's not just that I've changed my rates. It's. This is also how I've upgraded my business. So you have to be okay with that. And you're used to me giving you 100 examples? No, I'm showing you the best choice. So. And then she was like, okay, that's amazing.
- [11:56]
Ashley
I want to come back to rates in a second. But this. This idea of being organized and kind of showing up as organized, showing that to clients, how does that show up for a client? What are you doing that automatically gives them the confidence in your organization and execution?
- [12:13]
Isabel Ladd
I listen to what they say, and when I'm back designing, I'm thinking through all of their bullet points to make sure that I'm addressing them. It doesn't mean I'm going to tell them that that's the way it should be done, but I'm really addressing it. So that when I come to the presentation, it's like, hey, I know you said that you really want a sectional, but here is why I strongly do not recommend the sectional. And then I'll give the example. So that's organization to me. It's saying, like, I heard you. But here's the professional scenario that I've really thought through. When I'm presenting, I'm showing the vision board that I create on Canva, and nothing looks cluttery on there. It's like they see everything at once. And the things that are not obvious are labeled. Like, wallpaper on the ceiling is labeled like that. But I'm not labeling, like, here's a sofa. Like, so it's like, it's just less visual clutter. It's giving them what they need to know to understand that vision board. And then when I'm showing them the samples, as I'm doing the presentation, it is one sample at A time. It's like, I just have a way of presenting that's very calm and clear. But what I'm not doing is I'm not dumping the bag of samples and giving them options. Right. Right there.
- [13:40]
Ashley
I want to pivot quickly. You know, I want to talk about Ashley. I want to talk about what making that higher changed for you. But first, I would love for you to clarify, where do clients see you these days? Because I know you've created a lot of separation.
- [13:53]
Isabel Ladd
Yes, a lot of separation between Isabelle Ladd, the brand, and who's, like, the person who. The part of my. My business that works with brands and is on Instagram and doing very loud things on Instagram versus my clients whose homes I design for. So my clients, they are communicating 100% with Ashley with any questions. Logistics, Anything goes to Ashley, and they ask the design questions to Ashley, knowing that she's not going to answer, but she will respond. Like, Isabel will reply on Wednesday. I'm replying within 24 hours anyways. But then I will write that email. If it's a design email, I respond to that. And I'm great at responding with images and examples and all of this stuff. And I CC Ashley just so she knows what's happening. Or I might say, hey, I got your question. This is a little bit more involved. Can we hop on Zoom so I can, like, really show you by, like, pointing my fingers and showing you something like this, or, hey, I got your message. I would actually prefer to stop by your house and talk to you about this in person. Is that okay? So it's things like that. So they still have direct access to me. It's not that I'm behind the screen. It's just that I'm not getting distracted by constant communication or I'm not going down a rabbit hole, which is my personality to do.
- [15:35]
Ashley
How did you know that someone like Ashley was the team member you needed to bring into your business?
- [15:42]
Isabel Ladd
I did not. It was like a total, like, God thing. How that happened. I was working out of my house, and I found myself, like, just doing, like, oh, my gosh, Isabel, you spent a whole day just calculating shipping. You spent a whole day talking to the seamstress or answering these emails or scheduling or whatever. And so I was like, you need an assistant, Someone that'll, like, take these things off your place and just, like, do this little work that you tell them to do. So I actually reached out to Ashley. She was working at an ad agency, and she had hired me quite a handful of times to do Set design for the accounts that she had. And so I said, hey, Ashley, I'm looking for an assistant. If you have, like, an internal that would be interested in interiors or whatever, we just keep an ear to the ground and just send me over someone that's like, assistant quality. And she was like, sure. So then a few weeks later, she reaches out and says, hey, have you found someone? I said, no. And she goes, well, I've been thinking. I've been thinking, like, about me as this person. And in my head, I'm like, girl, you are vice president of an ad agency. I am looking for, like, $13 an hour, right? Will like, open boxes for me. So. But because I'm an open person, just like I ask all my clients to be open, I was like, okay. So we start talking, and she absolutely is not an assistant. She is the CEO, and she was not open to $13 an hour. But I was working with a life coach at the time who is very into, like, trusting your instincts and like, praying and meditating and saying yes, even when things sound so scary.
- [17:46]
Ashley
Yeah.
- [17:46]
Isabel Ladd
So hard. And it's really all about, like, just trusting, trusting the universe that everything that you desire will be better than you desire. So I desired an assistant, but I got a coo. So anyway, so with blind faith, I was like, okay. And then it was a bit of training, because when I'm so particular over, like, how I like things formatted and organized and done, it's like tics of mine. But really, like, her job as vice president of this ad agency and managing an accounts is. Is an operations job. It's a management job. She is the one who has always communicated with clients. Now the clients are different. She translated her skills here, but I was teaching her stuff like, here's wallpaper. Here's how wallpaper, right? Here's how this works in single rolls, double rolls. Sometimes it's in meters, sometimes it's triple rolls. You know, stuff like that. And. And we just learn. I feel like if I had hired an assistant, it would have. They would have slowed me down. I would have stayed small, and I would have been managing someone that is worth $13 an hour or whatever. So someone with. With a bigger title, a bigger paycheck, a bigger benefits, all of that, they come with the expectations. They come with that experience. Right.
- [19:16]
Ashley
I mean, you're paying a much bigger salary than I think you had originally been looking for. But how has that come back in multiples to your business?
- [19:27]
Isabel Ladd
Oh, my gosh. It's incredible. I can do better design work because I'm not doing the logistics. Those are two different jobs. So therefore I am able to get more design jobs at the level that I want from a mental health standpoint. Could not compare. Like I've blacked out from like before when I was doing everything on my own. Yeah, I mean I'm able to do more. I'm able to go to go on my 16 day world tour to Paris, London, Mexico because the business was being taken care of and then it was scheduled for when I get back. This new client is ready. But like we had a virtual assistant that had like been doing stuff like I would source before the trip, an assistant did stuff during my trip and then when I come back I'm ready for presentation. So it's like that kind of like logistical planning that is really important.
- [20:23]
Caitlin Peterson
We're taking a quick break to remind designers about one of the benefits of the Shade Stores trade program. Trade exclusive access to the Shade store. Com program for Roman shades, drapery and cornices. Combined with the Shade Store's extensive collection of more than 1,200 in stock materials, the creative possibilities are virtually endless. Visit theshadestore.comtrade to sign up for a trade account today and learn more.
- [20:54]
Ashley
It's you and Ashley. Just tell me quickly about the other team members, sort of virtually or in person, contract and full time, you know, kind of who's in your orbit to facilitate, facilitate all of the pieces of your business.
- [21:07]
Isabel Ladd
Yes. So my mom is in our orbit. She's, she literally is our assistant. She is like opening boxes, recycling boxes, doing all of that like schlepper stuff that we need done that is just would be a waste of time for Ashley and I. So she's our assistant. Then we have Caitlin Kemp in New York who's our social media person. So I, so Caitlin comes down generally to Kentucky, but soon we're going to Raleigh. She comes every three months and we capture content in about three days. I have 1 million outfit changes. We have a schedule of like exactly where we're going to go, exactly what we're going to talk about. Caitlin captures all of this on film and images and then she for the following three months is editing those and batching those and scheduling that content. So we're always working. Our social calendar is three months in advance. So that's Caitlin and she's been with us for over a year. And then we recently hired, about six months ago I hired Caroline who is our in house marketing and PR and what Caroline really brings to the table, I mean so many things. But as My social media has gotten bigger. Brands have been, I've been collaborating with brands and oftentimes like the deliverables, the contracts, the negotiations are very deep and I needed someone to completely take control of that inbox and schedule that out, negotiate. Do the media kit, send the media kit. Media kits are like speed bumps, right? To make sure that we're collaborating with, with the people with brands that are in our same vibe. So Caroline does that. She also brings to the table her background in fashion, but on like the wholesale side, the marketing side. So she started an LTK and a shop. My. And now every time someone says, oh my gosh, I love your outfit, or where can I get a pattern lamp shade? Well, there's a link for that. Caroline manages that and, and my LTK and shop. My platforms are very on brand. It's like, what would Isabel wear? What would Isabel do? And it's just that whole esthetic of my more is more. But it's funny too, because it'll be like dresses that when you want to wear a sofa and it's like dresses with like an upholstery pattern. So it's like fun. So, so Caroline does that and, and she's so forward thinking with new ideas for marketing. So we're going to start like workshops here at our office. We're going to, we're teaming up with like local people to have workshops and in their store. And she's just like going after that and, and just setting all of that up. So our new hire is working with Caitlin, our social media girl. And the new hire is focused completely on data and analytics.
- [24:20]
Ashley
Whoa. Okay.
- [24:21]
Isabel Ladd
And now we realize the more we're working with brands is we want someone who only understands the back end. And it's like just all the analytics that come, come through that. And so I don't know how many, you know, people that are big on, on Instagram have someone like this, but it's kind of just a testament to how important these brand collaborations that we're doing is so that we can deliver the data and also know it's like target audiences with like sponsored ads and, you know, carousels are doing better than, than this or just all the stuff that requires a different, a different job title. But for my small machine to run the way I, I want it to run, I'm only hiring experts.
- [25:18]
Ashley
Efficiency and excellence.
- [25:20]
Isabel Ladd
Oh, my gosh. That's right. Yes. It's efficiency and excellence. Those are my values. I will take on an intern. I will sit down with someone. But efficiency and excellence, that's Right.
- [25:31]
Ashley
You know, we were talking about you going to your clients and raising your rates. But in general, how are you talking to clients about money? How are you setting the stage from the beginning so that they know what this is going to cost with you with their furnishings budget and you know, so that you're aligned by the time you get to that presentation.
- [25:52]
Isabel Ladd
We took an inventory, man, we spent like three months just doing this. Business halted while we spent this time doing this. We did case studies of all of our favorite projects and we took averages. So in this case study we were like, what is the average sofa? What is the average of all of these things breaking down? So then we created a client facing deck. So now when someone reaches out, they actually, they, they have to go to our website to do this quick questionnaire. The questionnaire is like six sentences. It's so easy. It's not even sentences like hit this bubble. And then after they submit that, Ashley will then send the deck. The deck. It's like the 17 page document. And 17 pages might be like, what? But it is so pretty, it is so beautiful. And it's like, it's great photos of.
- [26:47]
Ashley
Her work in it, I bet.
- [26:48]
Isabel Ladd
Great photos. And it's all very organized. So like, here's an example of this deck. It'll say like, we love pattern, we love color, we do maximalism. Well, if you are here for it, then keep reading. So you are either in it because you want color and pattern or you're like, oh, sorry, I didn't see your website, I wanted beige. Then also in our deck is should I should be calling this the handbook? The handbook. The client. The client handbook. Yes, I'm changing this or to the client handbook. So in this handbook they will have already told Ashley like, you know, I'm interested in the dining room, the bedroom, whatever, three rooms. It says in our experience through case studies, here's averages of what it looks like to complete a living room. And then it just has that number and it says it includes one sofa, two club chairs, wallpaper, whatever. But of course it's, you know, it's just our general case study. You might have the world's biggest living room or you might have a studio apartment sized living room so that, that those averages are included in that, in that handbook, including my design time. So it'll say design fee for a living room and it might say 20k and then it says average furnishings for living room 40k. So then, so then they, so yes, that money talk is there on that deck.
- [28:22]
Ashley
And you weren't Billing by room. That's just sort of like, if you added up all the hours, it would probably get to about this.
- [28:28]
Isabel Ladd
It's flat fee. But I'm not making that call here on this. On this handbook. I'm just saying this is generally.
- [28:36]
Ashley
Yep. Okay.
- [28:37]
Isabel Ladd
Because people might not respond, but it might not be because it's too high. It could be the opposite. Right. It could be like, oh, no, no, no, no. I did not want a $50,000 living room. I'm more like a quarter of a million kind of living room kind of girl, you know?
- [28:55]
Ashley
Have you gotten that feedback before?
- [28:56]
Isabel Ladd
Yes.
- [28:57]
Ashley
No one ever talks about that, by the way.
- [29:00]
Isabel Ladd
Yeah. I have a client that I adore, and once I did a presentation, and, you know, I just naturally do high, low. So let's splurge on this sofa. But. But I found this lamp, which is totally great, but, you know, it's a great price. And the client was like, isabel, no, I only want you to show me amazing stuff. Don't think of anything that's, like, with a deal or high, low. You show me what you would love to see in this, regardless of price. And then if I need you to reselect, I'll reset. I'll have you reselect.
- [29:39]
Ashley
Did that change the way you think about money in your projects?
- [29:42]
Isabel Ladd
Yes, because Ashley and I say this to each other all the time. We don't sell out of our pocket. Everyone's finances are different, and everyone's mentality is different. So it's not just about the money in a bank. Because you might have a ton of money, but you don't value the cost of a custom pillow. Right. For me, I really value the price of a custom pillow, but I do not value blue jeans. That's why every blue jeans I've ever bought is $30 from Target. So it's like, what do you value? But yes. So that money talk does happen in this deck. And it also says, like, you may not hold us. We will not be held to these numbers. We have to see your house. We have to see all of that. But it's just to be palatable. So then if they. If they like this deck. Sorry, the handbook. Then they will continue the conversation with Ashley. And if they don't like something, maybe it's too handbooky, then they can pass. But again, that's just another way. Another speed bump. I love speed bumps. It's just another speed bump in place to get to that perfect match. Right. It's because it's like before you get married, you go on, like, dates to see, like, where's the speed bump? So doing a very intimate interior design project for somebody ends up being. I mean, I'm not going to say like a marriage, but it's like I. We talk about their finances. We see how the husband and wife interact with each other. We see how we're just. It's a very intimate, you know, we know where their keys are kept. We. We just know their schedule. You know what I mean? So before we get to that very intimate, like, relationship with each other, we want these speed bumps to be able so that we don't have to get a divorce later. Right, right, right. Look at me just circling this all back. Um, and then, yeah, it's. It is an evolving document and it's a way to make me fall in love with my business in a way, when I was out of love with my business, when I felt like I was run into the ground where there were no boundaries in place. And another thing too is since we've implemented this handbook and tightened up our contract, 100% of the clients of our clients have been completely respectful and followed everything. They have not been there for the installation. They've cried happy tears at the installation. They've never made more than. I'm sure it's been two edits, but I can only remember of one of one edit. And it was like, hey, can we see us? Can I see a standing lamp instead of a table lamp? But the majority of the people, I think maybe 95% of them say, like, you know, I just really love your aesthetic. I want my house to be like, what. What you would do and be proud of.
- [32:42]
Ashley
I'm going to bring us all the way back to money. When do you start shaping a budget so that you can start designing that project? And how are you exploring those conversations with your clients?
- [32:55]
Isabel Ladd
So the next step is to go to the house in real life. And for that, we charge $750, non refundable. It usually takes us. It can take us anywhere from like an hour to two hours. Then what I'm doing is we're walking around with the client and they're showing us the rooms and they're saying, like, okay, in this room you can do whatever. In this room, I really would like to keep this sofa and this, you know, chair or whatever. And as we're going around, maybe they only had on their mind the living room and the dining room. So as I'm going around, I'm like, okay, I know that this wasn't in your. In like the Scope of work that you had mentioned. However, this, like, hallway here or this foyer will only take, like, very little. We're just talking about, like, a light, a console table, a rug. It's so not a big deal for us to, like, add this in. So therefore, this part of your house feels complete.
- [34:05]
Ashley
Right?
- [34:06]
Isabel Ladd
So then you walk into the foyer, you go into the living room, then you do the dining room. So now it's just, like, it's more value for you. So that's what we're doing at this, like, meeting. And then the client will be like, oh, yeah, yeah, if that's okay, go ahead and just add the four. Then. I never thought of that, you know? Or as we're walking around, they might say, hey, I didn't tell you this originally in the. When we talked, but I've been thinking, I do actually really want to do this bedroom. Will you add this? And so we know this, like, as we're going around. Or the client might say, hey, I really want to do this. Do this foyer. I just want to make it so beautiful. But we never really use it. I just want it done. And so on this conversation, I might be like, yes, I will absolutely respect your wishes if you want this foyer done. That is only for guests. However, would you consider focusing on the rooms that you use more so that. So maybe that is from the garage comes this hallway with a mudroom and the lockers and all of that. Would you consider us maybe prioritizing this space? Because this is where your family comes through every day, and let's bring joy to your family daily. Could we prioritize that? And then the conversation will be like, you know, I never thought about that. I always thought of a mudroom as, like, the last place scenario. But when you put it like that, yes, I should do this first, or I should do this instead. Or, you know what? Let's do both of them. Or someone will say, actually, this happens often. They'll come over, we'll come over, and they're like, I really want you to do this bedroom, this guest bedroom. And they're like, we'll do our master later. We can tolerate it for now. And then my little pep talk, because I'm such, like, a pep talk kind of person, is I'm like, okay, it'll cost the same, and the design might be the same for, like, whether it's the master, the primary, or the guest will just, you know, you'll need a new bed, you'll need a new bedding, you'll need a new chair, you Need a xyz. So what if we did your bedroom that you spend the most time in? What if we did that instead of the guest room? And if you just need the guest room as a placeholder for someone coming in, I can do the guest bedroom, like, inexpensively, just to, like, get that done. Or as a placeholder or, like, you know, we'll keep this guest room furniture, and we'll just, like, I'll just give it, like, a quick makeover, but let's prioritize your space. And so again, it's that pep talk of. Then a client's like, oh, yeah, why should I not be prioritizing me and my family?
- [36:54]
Ashley
How much does that conversation change the ultimate scope of work?
- [36:58]
Isabel Ladd
50. 50. Sometimes it's dead on, but I'm always giving ideas. And sometimes the other 50% of the time, it's like, oh, yes, let's pivot to this instead. And I say this before I go to their house. I'm like, let's walk around the whole house. And are you open? I love, like, asking for consent. I'm like, would you be open to me giving some other, like, little opinions as I'm walking around? And 100% of the time.
- [37:23]
Ashley
Right. No one's gonna say, oh, my God, I have a professional in my house. Please don't give me advice.
- [37:27]
Isabel Ladd
Exactly. So as we're doing this walk, it's a walk around the house. It's much more casual, but Ashley is taking notes. I'm just talking, and Ashley is taking notes of everything. So then we go back to our document, and we just start tallying the prices. The average price of those favorite projects. We already have that in there. And it's like, two sofas, one chair, xyz. And then that says the scope of work to include fully furnishing this living room, this dining room, wallpaper, and just the foyer. So the scope is very defined. And then it says proposed estimates. And that proposed estimate will say, like, living room 50,000, dining room, 30,000. What we are not doing is we're not saying the living room is going to have two sofas, one chair, one.
- [38:31]
Ashley
Rug, and each sofa is going to be this and each. Yeah.
- [38:34]
Isabel Ladd
Nope, nope. It's just saying this is the estimate for this room. It might be more, it might be less, but you have to, like, be comfortable with this number. What we are not going to do is take this 50,000 for a living room and then negotiate with a client. To the client say, oh, you know, can you do it for 25? I wasn't expecting that much? Well, they don't really say that because they've had it already in the deck that this is what the average room is. Or we might say, hey, our deck may have said 50k, but we're coming in with the estimate of 75. Well, of course, that deck had written approximately one sofa, two chairs, whatever, but now we're talking about three sofas. Or we're talking about like a giant living room. Or it's like a living room slash dining room.
- [39:24]
Ashley
Right.
- [39:24]
Isabel Ladd
You know. Right. So. But you have that number written in a contract that says estimated. But then we have our design fee that again, we've worked through the back end with case studies that says the design fee for these three rooms is X. That number is not going to change. Yep. What changes is. And then it says we can, like, Scope Creep is real. We 100% get that. If something comes out of the scope, we will talk to you beforehand about. We'll. We'll create an addendum to this contract that now says, okay, we're doing the kitchen. Here's the price for the kitchen, here's the design fee. Or it could be like a small little thing which is just billed hourly. Like right now, it's like, I've designed the space and everything, and we have everything ordered. But she was like, hey, can you upholster the sofa in a new room? Sure. We'll just do that on, like an hourly. We're not going to do a whole contract for once or that.
- [40:25]
Ashley
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:26]
Isabel Ladd
So we want Scope Creep. That means that we're doing a good job. That means that they want more, but we just need everything defined. So that's the money talk. So then Ashley sends them the. This is now the contract.
- [40:40]
Ashley
Yeah.
- [40:40]
Isabel Ladd
This contract says the flat design fee. That's not going to change. And it says a very good estimate of the rooms that we've agreed to. The one time it did not go through was because the client had said she wanted to do two rooms, two living rooms. And then we go to her house for that meeting, and I'm giving ideas and she's saying, yes, yes, yes, do it all. Give us the number for everything here. And then we did.
- [41:14]
Ashley
And it's a big number.
- [41:15]
Isabel Ladd
And then it's a big number when you want everything, when you're deciding that at that meeting. And then that was a time that was like, okay, I did not realize that. I'm not ready for that now. And that's fine. We got paid for the work that we did at that initial. We did A lot of work, you know, for that 750, when we went to the house for two hours, two of us to do measuring and to do all of the ideas and then come back here. It's not just plugging in numbers into this from the spreadsheet. It's also like me doing mockup sketches to tell Ashley how many sofas I.
- [41:54]
Ashley
Actually envision to validate what she's.
- [41:56]
Isabel Ladd
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or to see if I think of an antique rug in this room or. Or not an antique rug or, like a sisal. Those are big differences for numbers, right? That could be a $10,000 difference. So there's a lot of work involved to get that contract to where it needs to be.
- [42:16]
Caitlin Peterson
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- [42:55]
Ashley
Everything, even in the contract says, you know, this number is an estimate. How are you using that estimate as you source? You know, when you get to that phase of the presentation where they've fallen in love with everything, you've shown them the samples, you sort of walked them through the room and been like, here's where your sofa will be. What is the conversation then to be like and remember that price tag we talked about. Here it is.
- [43:20]
Isabel Ladd
So that is something that I figure out during this, like, home tour, going around with them because I'm really good at, like, reading the room. And also when I'm decorating, I'm not just decorating based on furnishings. I'm decorating based on the price that we're keeping in mind. Maybe they've already had. Had a room done, or I can see that they've already put up wallpaper, but I recognize that wallpaper, and it is, like, amazing. Or I can tell by, like, their. Their clothes or something else. There's clues around their house that's like, oh, they have fine taste. They know brunch, wicking fee. Right? You know, Right. And then I can tell if someone is just like, Isabelle, you do you. What would you do? And what I do is what I do naturally in my own house. Is I know when to do something like the standout, amazing piece that we have to spend money on, which is always like wallpaper or patterned curtains. It is never. It's never just like a sofa. I don't get when I say value again, it's not financial value. It is that maximalist impact, visual aesthetic value. So what I do so naturally is let's splash something on the walls, let's chill on the sofa, but let's add an awesome pillow here. Or I can find an inexpensive. I can find inexpensive lamp bases, but let's do really cool lampshades. So what I do naturally is that high, low. It's so creative for me, and that's what I do. I think nine times out of 10, the one person would be someone that's like, girl, I only want the fancy stuff.
- [45:06]
Ashley
Yeah.
- [45:06]
Isabel Ladd
And then I'm like, noted. I am not sourcing inexpensive rug. I am waiting for my rug dealer from Nashville to come up and show me rugs, you know, And I. And I just find that during that walk through with them that then Ashley will then put in the. In that contract that information.
- [45:26]
Ashley
I want to ask you one more money question. You know, I know raising your rates was such a pivotal part of your professional development. Can you tell me specifically about your pivot lately to a flat fee, why you did it, and what that has unlocked for you?
- [45:43]
Isabel Ladd
Okay. I started the flat fee because I felt that as I'm keeping track of my hours, which I do very diligently, I felt stifled a little bit by my creativity. It's like I was just trying hard to, like, do a time that a client would be fine with.
- [46:02]
Ashley
Right. Or like, not save them money, but, like, to show efficiency, since that's one of your values.
- [46:07]
Isabel Ladd
Exactly. That's my number one value is efficiency. And so it's like, well, I don't want to design this room over 12 hours and build in that when I. It could take me six hours, you know, but. So I just didn't want to feel locked to a number. I just. So it's like an energy thing for me, just being like, this is what's agreed on, and bada bing, bada boom. I can take as little or as much time as I want. And also, I don't want to surprise people. Even though clients have never questioned time invoice, I think because I'm, like, shaving it down because I'm doing it so much faster than they would have ever dreamed of. But it's like, I just want everyone to know what they're getting themselves into from the beginning. And then also I recently have. I mean, a few times I've had experiences with subcontractors or contractors in my own home. And actually, this just happened to a construction project of mine, and it kills me. He gives me an invoice, and all it says is a number, and there is no more information. And as someone who. And it's like an unexpected number, I didn't know that it was coming. I didn't know exactly what the amount would be or a ballpark. It's like, that bothers me because I love clarity. At least when you got my time invoices, it was like, I did this from these hours. Nobody needs to know that I worked from 11 to 2, but it's written in there 11 to 2. And exactly what I was doing, sourcing trim and fabric for this room. And it just bothers me to just get an invoice with just a number that I'm like, okay, anyway, so I didn't like that. And so with the flat fee, it's like, yeah, everyone just. It's just more transparency and straightforwardness. And then it just, like, takes a logistical element out of. Of doing this. Another thing for, like, us as a business, like, I really believe that it takes money to make money. And I am constantly spending money on the business by hiring business coaches, by traveling to all the places that I travel to for networking by new hires. But I'm just very into a mindset of show houses, and I'll do whatever it takes financially to, like, make something the way that I want it to be. And so doing flat fees helps us as a business know what is coming in and plan and know, like, oh, you know, we can say no to these to a project, even though after we've. We've passed all of the vibe check or whatever, because it's like, I just have all of this other stuff that I. This business developing stuff that I need to focus on. And I'm confident that, like, money is still coming into the business. Right. Or so I don't have to take this project. Or it just helps me be like, oh, nope, I want to do all of this other stuff. Yep, take this project. So from business planning perspective, a flat fee is important.
- [49:21]
Ashley
I know you're also charging a percentage on product. What does that represent for you versus that flat fee when you look at, like, revenue for your business?
- [49:33]
Isabel Ladd
When I make money off of a product, to me, that is because I have liability in a product, Right. If it's, like, comes in broken or Things break late or something like, we are always going to fix it, even if it's at our expense. Also, that price there is also based on my vendor relations. So I'm gonna take four hands for an example because I love them so much. So I love a business where their trade program reflects an incentive for a designer. It's interesting because they're not an aesthetic that you would associate Isabelle Latin tears with.
- [50:14]
Ashley
It's very neutral for you.
- [50:16]
Isabel Ladd
Yes. But I use them in every single one of my projects, and here's why. Because I need their, their wood pieces, their cane pieces, their rattan pieces to balance out my crazy stuff. So that's my curated maximalist style. It's not just about the patterns. Like, I need cane, rattan wood, metal, stone to be my signature look. But then I also love their stuff. So I might buy an ottoman and then just upholstered in one of my, in like a crazy fabric. So anyway, so with four hands, I liked their stuff. I could always just trust what was coming in. And we have an incredible rep. So I will say that like a rep makes or breaks whether I use a company, right? I might love a company product, but I do not like the customer service. And I will go to a higher up or a company and say, or if I care enough to say something, I'll say, hey, I'd like a, a new rep if possible. Or just let me know when someone else is available in my territory. And then when they come and say, oh, you just don't use our product, I think that you would love it. I'm like, the truth is that you have not had my back when something comes in damaged or I know that like your policy says five days to inspect for damages. However, we're holding this stuff in a controlled warehouse just for interior designers stuff. We keep these lights boxed and sometimes they're in your box for a year until it's installed. And so I need you to understand that and make exceptions. When I put up your light a year later and something is broken or whatever, like, I need you to bend for me. Because this is just how the nature of like installations and warehousing, I mean, I don't want to tell them how to do their job. I'm just saying this is why. Because I don't get good service from you or because your prices are not, are not good at all. So anyway, so then with four hands, I had this incentive of just like keeping on getting better pricing the more I worked with them. And so as I get better pricing, I want to be rewarded for that. So I'm not going to share that with a client because they didn't go on a 16 day bender around the world like you just did in Mexico. Like I just did. To get these relationships, you know, or, or source from a company. Be so loyal to somebody for years to get really good pricing. That's my work. So what I say, it's in the deck, it's in the contract. We do not disclose what we buy the product for. We propose it to you, we sell it to you at a fair price. But there are times when a client doesn't know this and I don't want to tell them because I don't want to like open up a can of worms. But there are so many times where I really want a piece in a client's house and I am making either zero money on it or I'm making like such a small percent just enough just to, I don't know, make me not mad at myself. But I don't want to tell them that they're getting this thing at cost.
- [53:39]
Ashley
Right.
- [53:40]
Isabel Ladd
Because I don't want to open up the can of worms. Well, what am I not getting at cost? But it's just, it's how passionate I am for every project and how I want the project to succeed in any way I can.
- [53:53]
Ashley
Is there ever any pushback on that conversation about markup?
- [53:57]
Isabel Ladd
Yes, I've had it once and it was actually kind of recent. And I don't use the word markup. To me, the word markup just seems like I'm doing something as opposed to. It's just my pricing versus selling price. It's like we're a store, we're vendors of goods. So it's like you go to a store to buy a dress and you look at the price of that dress, you either say, yes, please, I'm going to buy it, or no, thank you. But what you don't do is you don't ask the shopkeeper, hey, what did you pay for this? And then you don't make your decision on the price that you see on that tag and what the shopkeeper spent. And that resonates with people we don't know. When we see a price of a dress and we know that, that it's likely that in the retail business that you got it for, for less, you should, that's good business. But all of those times that whether it's the person at the dress store or me as an interior designer, all the times we've been to market to look at things. All of the times that we've been obsessive over line lists and quality and thinking about what we're bringing into our store or a studio, there's reasons why those prices are there. And it's nobody's business but the business owner. So as a client, you say yes please or no thank you. Your decision should not be based on what the owner of that business did to get to get there.
- [55:29]
Ashley
As your firm has evolved, how have your ambitions for your business changed with it?
- [55:36]
Isabel Ladd
Oh, yes. They just kept getting bigger. Everything just, I just dream wider and, and harder and bigger because I know that the experts on my team will keep this ship sailing while I'm exploring and experimenting with. With different things that take me out of the office and out of the country.
- [55:57]
Ashley
What does success mean to you today?
- [56:00]
Isabel Ladd
Success to me means peace. It means mental health, and it means boundaries. Success to me also means making peace with the fact that I am obsessed with my work. What that means is that I oftentimes more in the past than now because I'm working on it, but I would oftentimes feel like, guilty or embarrassed that I love work so much. Like, I can talk about this at a cocktail party when I'm at my pool in the summer, I'm like, redesigning my house or looking at design magazines or whatever. On the weekends, I might come into work to redecorate my office or to just be in here. And I used to be to myself apologetic about it, like, oh, Isabel, it's okay that you're a workaholic. It's okay. You'll get better. And now I'm like, but wait, I love this. I love this. I love working late sometimes because I get so much more done. I love that I can, like, pull on all nighter and like, work literally for 18 hours because I'm so obsessed. And so now I'm just like, own it. As opposed to being like, hard on myself. So success to me means, yeah. So peace, boundaries and owning my. Owning my passion.
- [57:43]
Caitlin Peterson
That's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening.
- [57:46]
Ashley
If you'd like to keep up with.
- [57:48]
Caitlin Peterson
The latest design industry news, check out new products or browse job openings, head on over to businessofhome.com and if you're enjoying Trade tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. If you have a note for the show or a story of your own to share, I'd love to hear from you and you can email me@tradetalesusinessofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Kaitlyn Peterson, and Caroline Burke. This episode episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you back here next week.