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Trade Tales
Jenna Gross on the showhouse that helped solidify her brand
00:49:50
Jenna Gross on the showhouse that helped her embrace her design aesthetic, how she uses social media to forge connections with future clients, and how her business had to level up before she could take on a more elevated clientele.
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- [00:03]
Jenna Gross
I am going to lean in to who I am and you know, the best design that I do, and there are people who also love it. And we're going to color the world one house at a time.
- [00:17]
Caitlin Peterson
Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Trade Tales. We're back for season six of the show where I'll be talking to interior designers about the challenges, pivots and perspective shifts that come with growing a design firm. My hope is that you hear your own why echoed in these stories, or an idea or a way of doing business that sparks your own breakthrough. I hope it helps you realize that even when times are tough, an entrepreneurship feels lonely. You're not alone. My guest today is a designer who entered the industry with a specific goal in mind to offer a design approach centered on a full embrace of colorful interiors. She shares how after more than a decade of hard work, she's entering a new phase as she readies her business to welcome an influx of clients who truly understand her brand. I can't wait to share it with you, but first, a quick word from our sponsor. This podcast is brought to you by Cloths, the world leader in sauna luxury. For thousands of years, sauna bathing has provided the heat we crave. With cloths saunas, you can select the exact levels of temperature and humidity to create a wide range of soothing atmospheres, from a climate classic finish sauna to a gentler, soft steam experience. When you step into a cloth sauna, you are in control. To learn more about the leaders in sauna luxury and their exclusive trade programs, visit clothsusa.com that's K L A F S U S A.com.
- [02:06]
Jenna Gross
I'm from Columbus, Georgia, which is two hours south of Atlanta. And my mom was an interior designer as well as my grandmother, and they owned a little home store. And in the back of that, my uncle and my grandfather ran an upholstery business. You know, every day after school I'd go there, I'd hang out while everybody was at work and I'd flip through fabric books. And that's just kind of where I grew up. I ended up going to the University of Georgia and decided I'm just going to be a little bit different. Like I've always been a creative, but maybe I'm going to lean into the fashion world. And I lived in New York for a little while and worked for Marc Jacobs, who is my favorite fashion designer. Fun colors, prints, really loud, a little different. But when I was there, I realized how I could bring that back to the south because I did quickly realize I wasn't cut out to live in the north. I wanted to be back in the south, but I didn't have to be so traditional and I could bring that edginess of New York City back with me.
- [03:01]
Caitlin Peterson
That's Jenna Gross. She moved back to Georgia and soon purchased a home with her husband. After embarking on the renovation process, she was offered a chance to showcase her talents on a reality show.
- [03:13]
Jenna Gross
It was a TLC show and it was called four houses. So in this particular show, it was four differently designed houses and we all went around to each other's together and critiqued them and we got to actually vote on our favorite. It's so funny because they were all so different. Like one was, you know, a bachelor in a high rise in midtown. One was a mom in the suburbs. Mine was colorful, unlike the rest of them. And then the other was a really cool mid century modern house. So they're all very different. And so that's how people got to see my house.
- [03:43]
Caitlin Peterson
At first, the show came to an end, but Jenna quickly discovered that her journey in design was just beginning.
- [03:50]
Jenna Gross
So the first person who saw it and hired me is still a long time client. It was kind of her portfolio that put me on the radar at all. She's from Columbus, where I'm from, but we didn't know each other. But I think that's why she watched the show because she heard it was a Columbus girl on the show. I'll never forget when she had me come to her house the first time. I was so nervous and she's like, well, how much do I need to pay you? And I was like, I don't know, like $600. You know, like, I'll take a retainer. I mean, I can't remember if that was the amount, but it was low. I just remember being so scared, so thrilled and so happy and I was like, here we go, let's do this.
- [04:28]
Caitlin Peterson
In 2013, Jenna launched Color Drunk Designs. I wanted to talk to her about the showhouse that helped her embrace her design aesthetic. How she uses social media to forge connections with future clients, and how her business had to level up before she could take on a more elevated clientele.
- [04:49]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
When did you really feel like you kind of hit your stride in the business?
- [04:53]
Jenna Gross
If I'm being very honest, I feel like I hit my stride maybe a little over a year ago. It's taken a long time to grow it and to for it to be what I dreamed it would be. So, no, not Immediate.
- [05:07]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
I love that. I think that's so important to remind everybody that you aren't going to feel that way right away.
- [05:13]
Jenna Gross
No. And, you know, there's nothing like experience. So you have to go through some of the harder times, dealing with difficult clients, forgetting things or messing things up before it's stamped in your brain not to do that again. And it's just all a big learning, and it takes a lot of time to realize who you are and what you want your business to look like.
- [05:36]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
How do you talk about that today? I mean, not to steal your words completely, but, like, who are you and what do you want your business to look like? You know, how did you start to refine and define that?
- [05:46]
Jenna Gross
I think like most designers, I mean, I would think that we all have to take clients we don't necessarily see are good fit, or we have to take it because we need the money, or, you know, not that, but like, we've got bills, you know, and you want to build a portfolio, and you want to do a really great job so that that client refers you to their friends and their family. And so we all, you know, think, okay, I'll quit saying we all. I took a lot of projects that I am so thankful for, but they were not really representative of me. And for instance, last year, when I was offered the space in the house, Beautiful Show House, they offered me this historical dining room. And the whole concept of that house was a restoration project, which was super cool. They did give me this dining room that had a 1940s Chinoiserie mural that was yellow, red, and blue, and you.
- [06:43]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Weren'T allowed to touch it. Right. That was like. It was like a historic part of the home. It was beautiful, but. But not existing.
- [06:51]
Jenna Gross
Yeah, it was existing. I had to work around it. The colors are not my favorite. It's. So I felt very honored that they were like, jenna can do this. She can make it updated and fun. But I think what was really cool is when I was getting a tour of the house, there's this whole apartment on the side. And I was like, hey, why don't I do that too? And they're like, oh, you know, we just are going to close that off. And I was like, no, I want to do it, because I'm just ready to put myself out there and to put my brand out there. And I think that was the best way to do it, because, you know, you don't have a client. You are just decorating it the way that you want the world to see you. And I think it's so important to lean into who you are and, you know, find your niche. And just at some point when you're able to do that and say no to clients that aren't a good fit, or you can just make a better end result, and it's so much better. And when I feel more fulfilled, the client's happier because I do better work. And it's just really trying to narrow down on what you want your business to be and who you want to.
- [08:02]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Portray yourself as, to paint a picture for anyone who didn't see the whole home project in that house in Hinsdale last year. Right. That was last year. You furnished that dining room. Right. With that existing wall covering. And then people walked down a hallway and went into the most extraordinary sort of explosion of color and lattice work and a kitchen that lives rent free in my brain.
- [08:29]
Jenna Gross
Mine, too. I miss it so much.
- [08:32]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Can you talk to me kind of about the strategy there? Right. Because I don't think that that was an accident. That expression of your brand. How did you start to shape that? What were you thinking that that would become for your business?
- [08:45]
Jenna Gross
I thought that that would become the true picture of what people visualize when they think of color drunk. So there was a lot of pink in it. And people do think, oh, she only decorates with pink. That's not true. But that is a favorite color of mine. And so it was a color that a lot of people are a little nervous to do. But I did it in a soft way, I think. And so what I loved about that house is that it's an old, historic, traditional home. And there were so many pieces, like the trellis ceilings, and, you know, there's an old Dwyer cooktop. And I was like, this is my chance to take an old, traditional setting and modernize it without being too crazy and just showing people you can love color and you can be sophisticated at the same time.
- [09:31]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
And that's still. I mean, it worked. That is still the landing page on your website, right?
- [09:35]
Jenna Gross
Yes. I just. That room is. It makes me so happy. It. And I think it actually made a lot of other people happy. And so I think that's like, the best thing I could have done for my career is doing that show house, asking for more and really putting myself out there, you know, because you don't know if people are going to love it or not. But I got a lot of great feedback. It's won several awards. And so that just makes me feel, you know, like I can do this. Like, this is. People like it, and this is what they want. And so I am going to lean in to who I am. And there are people who also love it, and we're going to color the world one house at a time.
- [10:15]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So. Oh, I love that. Do the calls that are coming from the people who have seen that show house project feel different? Is the work that you'll be doing next different as a result of kind of taking this leap creatively?
- [10:30]
Jenna Gross
Yes. I mean, 100%, it is people who are not just trying to make their houses look finished. So people are calling me for a whole revamp. They love fashion, they love art, and they love color, and they are just really trying to lean into their personality and want their homes to reflect who they are. And it's just so exciting because I always joke that I'm not a doctor or, you know, a lawyer or someone who's mostly a doctor. Like, I'm not a surgeon helping people. But I'd like to think that I am helping people feel better so that they can go about their everyday lives and do what they're doing for other people. Because I just think your surroundings really affect the way that you feel. I've had so many people just say, like, our quality of life just because of what you've done in our home has just increased dramatically. And they thank me for it. And that's like, this is why I do this. Like, I just think we can all appreciate it.
- [11:29]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So I want to talk about your firm's name. You make such a statement in the branding of your business. I think it's super smart. But how did you land on color drunk? And what did you want prospective clients to know about you when they found you and your brand?
- [11:45]
Jenna Gross
So when I started the brand, it was actually. Do you remember, I don't know, how many years ago, 15 years ago, when everybody was blogging and had fun little blogs? That's where it started. And it was a love of all fashion home decor. It was a mix. And this was, you know, the beginning, but it became, you know, just the design brand. But what obviously I want people to know is that I do color right. Like, people who want a restoration hardware type home are not going to come to me. And that's okay. But with the drunk part, I wanted them to realize that I can be fun and, like, relatable and, like, it doesn't have to be so serious and stuffy, so.
- [12:27]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
And intimidating.
- [12:28]
Jenna Gross
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And also, my last name is Gross, so I didn't want to be Jenna Gross interior.
- [12:34]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
I was gonna say, is there ever a Yearning to have named your business after yourself?
- [12:39]
Jenna Gross
No, because I feel like that can be easier to forget. Whereas Color Drunk is just a funny, fun name. And like, I'll go out and some people are like, oh, you're Color Drunk? And I'm like, yeah, my name's Jenna. But yes, I'll accept.
- [12:54]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
That's amazing. How do you think that sort of, that branding, that playfulness has changed the way prospective clients interact with your work?
- [13:04]
Jenna Gross
I think it's been great because, like you said, they're not intimidated. They think we can be a little more playful. And I think Instagram has really helped me put myself out there, just filming videos or whatnot so they can get to know me too, as Color Drunk. But again, I will say this last year has been the biggest pivot because before I think it can certainly come off as, I hate the word tacky, but, you know, like, it could come off as crazy color, and that's just too much. But so this last year and doing that show house and just finishing up my own home that I've been sharing have, you know, been just a way to really portray that color can be sophisticated and fun can be sophisticated. And so you have to put out what you want clients to see and want.
- [14:01]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
I love that the fun can be sophisticated. That feels so important. And I think we lose sight of that a lot.
- [14:08]
Jenna Gross
Yeah. And I think, you know, I hate bringing up Covid, but I think everybody lived in their homes and, you know, business for designers was booming because it was just, just get me out of here or we have to change it or something and burn it down. Yeah. And then I think, and I hope that people are realizing color can make you feel good. And, you know, I believe that sometimes it's just blues for some people, or greens or, you know, it's just, I feel like people are realizing it's not so scary and that it can be very sophisticated. Still high end, but most importantly, make you feel good.
- [14:43]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
How important is it? You know, you mentioned especially sharing on social media, sort of demystifying some of the work you do, or really elevating the work you do or showing it in a new light. How important is that content creation process as sort of an engine for your business?
- [14:58]
Jenna Gross
It has been so great because I feel like it creates a place where I can interact with people who aren't ready to hire me now, but they may have a project in two years, four years, whatever. But I'm creating relationships with them and they're learning to trust me and they're learning, you Know how I work and what my personality is like so that they're not afraid to reach out. Because I do think some people never reach out to designers because it can seem like a really stuffy business, you know, if you're not spending X amount of money or just, you know, embarrassed, invite designers who might be judgy in their home. So I think that just putting myself out there and seeing that I'm easygoing helps people feel okay about reaching out and also seeing what I do and how I do it so that they might be attracted to that.
- [15:44]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
How do you make room for the process of capturing and creating all of that? Have you hired that out? Are you working with the team? Is that you? How do you fit that into the daily grind of like a very demanding business? I think that's so many people are just like, yeah, I want to do that. That seems great. But like, when you know, yes.
- [16:05]
Jenna Gross
And so to be honest, I did hire it out a couple years ago and it was so hard because she did an amazing job. But it just wasn't as authentic as if I put myself out there. And it also, you know, I am leading a busy firm and I don't have a ton of time to sit down and go through what I want to share. So it actually is just easier for me to do it myself. And will I hire it out later? Maybe that would be wonderful if I can get, you know, figure out how to do that. But I feel like right now my focus is really putting myself out there so that clients get to know me. So for right now, in my business, I think my, you know, me being on there is so important and I'm the one who's answering questions and replying to clients. And so, you know, I'd love to get to a place again where I feel like we could, you know, film more videos of behind the scenes things that I could get help with. But right now, specific focus for me is really putting myself out there.
- [17:10]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What does that look like? What kind of content calendar do you have? Are you planning that out in advance or is it more like, okay, today I'm going to make a video about.
- [17:18]
Jenna Gross
X. I wish I could say I planned it out, but it is my kids. You know, I have three kids. So I get them up, they go to school, and then I either walk on the treadmill or whatever and I'm just thinking through the day and I'm like, what do I. How many meetings do I have? When can I fit in something? But it's usually I have an idea And I'm like, oh, I need to do that. And I also have adhd, so then I can sit down and knock it out right then. So it's like, I'd love to say it's planned out and beautiful in a spreadsheet, but it's not. And I feel like that's just my brain is always moving, and I get an idea, and I'm like, I'm gonna do this right now.
- [17:56]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What part of running your firm has tested you the most as an entrepreneur?
- [18:01]
Jenna Gross
Definitely the business side. You know, I'm sure other designers have told you that the fun part is such a small. The business part. My husband takes on so much of that for me. I'm so thankful he's an attorney, but also, you know, a partner in my business and helps with all of that unfun stuff and just scheduling and, you know, keeping the project moving. I have a project manager, Shayla, who just. I don't know what I would do without her. She keeps everything straight so that I can really, you know, lean into the creative side. So it is, you know, all those numbers and the logistics, and then, you know, things go wrong a lot. And it makes me really sad because I'm a people pleaser, so that's all really hard for me.
- [18:50]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
How long were you solo in your business before you brought someone on to sort of help you with some of those, like that logistical, project management side?
- [18:58]
Jenna Gross
So Sheila's been with me almost eight years now.
- [19:01]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Okay. So pretty early.
- [19:02]
Jenna Gross
Mm. Because for a creative, you need somebody like that.
- [19:08]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What were you, you know, when you think back eight years ago, where were you at in your business, and what were you originally looking for in a new hire?
- [19:16]
Jenna Gross
Oh. So when I met with Shayla, I just needed someone who is more serious than me, more organized than me. And so she has an interior design background, but in the commercial field, so she had worked on really large projects. So I knew that she could definitely handle the scopes that we were dealing with. And she's just so much fun, but also means business. So I just knew immediately when we talked that she was the right fit.
- [19:44]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Is it the two of you, or what else is your team? How big is your team today?
- [19:47]
Jenna Gross
Right now, it's just the two of us.
- [19:49]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Okay.
- [19:49]
Jenna Gross
Plus my husband, who. Yes.
- [19:52]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What's his role?
- [19:53]
Jenna Gross
Well, he's an attorney. His dad's our bookkeeper, and he does all that with him. He does just a lot of the schlepping, if I'm being honest, and he helps me focus on what's important. And he helps me, I mean, with everything. But he keeps the business running like he is my right hand man and just the best partner in all aspects of life. So he lets me be my creative self because he knows that's when I'm the happiest and when I shine the most.
- [20:21]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So with that sort of split between the two of you, how do you. Who's talking to the clients about money? Who's their main contact for questions about billing? Like, how do you navigate that piece of the project where like the project meets client management?
- [20:38]
Jenna Gross
It's still me. I feel like I have to be the face. Would I love to pawn it off on him? Absolutely. I do not, like I said, like confrontation. When anybody has a question about their bill, I just die inside because I am very transparent. So I bill by the hour. I'd love to move to a flat fee, but I just don't feel like I can be as transparent. So I. They get detailed bills of what I'm doing so that you know how the project's progressing and exactly what I'm spending time on. So if there's ever a question, I'm just like, oh my gosh, I can't do this anymore. I'm going to quit. I can't. Like. And then my husband's like, jenna, you know, it's fine, it's just business. And I'm like, okay, okay. But I feel like it's important for me to be that person right now, where I am in my business.
- [21:28]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So what do those early conversations about billing look like? How do you navigate those?
- [21:34]
Jenna Gross
So I've learned that it's just so much better to be upfront. So I tell clients I bill by the hour, I take a retainer up front and I, in my contract it says I bill for a phone call if it's five minutes. And you know, I hate that because it might make clients feel like, you know, they can't call me for every little thing. But Caleb reminds me, what if I had 25 minute phone calls on Tuesday and I'm not billing? And you know, it's just, I like to put everything out there and they really are saving money in the long run, I think, rather than me doing a flat fee because I'd have to cushion it, you know, so I have a pretty good process. So I think that they know the different stages of the project and you know, it's the most time heavy in the beginning.
- [22:21]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So you just put it all out there and let them ask questions.
- [22:24]
Jenna Gross
Yeah, but it's just very simple. I just bill by the hour. So I have a different rate for Shayla and for Caleb when they're doing things, obviously. But it's just. I keep it very simple.
- [22:35]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Do you bill for product as well, like a markup?
- [22:38]
Jenna Gross
Yes, 30%, and that depends on the client. So I've had clients that I've been working with for, you know, my whole business, and I get in a lot of trouble that I haven't changed my contract with them, but I just feel like, you know, they took a chance on me and I want to give them a good deal.
- [22:53]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
And do they have a lower markup or.
- [22:55]
Jenna Gross
Yeah. Or no markup, even?
- [22:57]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Okay.
- [22:57]
Jenna Gross
Some have no markup, so I must still charge 85 an hour, which is.
- [23:02]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Oh, no, wait. So you haven't raised your rates for those old clients?
- [23:05]
Jenna Gross
No, there's like a handful of them. And, you know, because it's not like I'm doing their whole house. We're just doing little things here and there. But I know that I should. I just feel so loyal to them because I feel like I wouldn't be here without them because they've grown with me. So. Yes. So they don't all get a markup, and all new clients do get a markup, but it does change, you know, because some vendors I get better pricing on. So I'll mark that up 40% because I feel like, well, it's so important, right. Your relationship with vendors and business partners. So I feel like if I've invested that time to have that relationship where I'm getting more perks, then I should take advantage of that because I need it, especially to fill in the gaps for the clients I'm not working.
- [23:48]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Is that a hard conversation, or are clients really understanding of the business model?
- [23:52]
Jenna Gross
Well, I will tell you this. It's. The new clients I'm attracting now are very understanding, and a lot of it is because they're in jobs where. Well, I guarantee you they're making more than I am. So you have to attract the right client. That's not going to say that's too high. Like, definitely never work with someone who's trying to negotiate in the beginning. So, yeah, I feel like if they respect me and what I do, then they're willing to pay for it.
- [24:18]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Where? Kind of in the client onboarding process. What are some of the things you've done to eliminate friction or to set yourself up for success throughout the life cycle of a project?
- [24:28]
Jenna Gross
The most important thing is I appreciate honesty and I appreciate back and forth. And, you know, I think that we have to have open communication. So if they're ever feeling like anything's going wrong or not exactly the way they anticipated it to, just a brain light to my attention. So we can talk through it and we can make sure we're on the same page about everything, whether it's design related, billing related. But I just think communication is the most important. So I tell them that so they feel very comfortable with me at all times.
- [24:55]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Do you walk them through the process up front? Do you walk them through your contract?
- [24:59]
Jenna Gross
Yeah, I have a little packet.
- [25:01]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Okay.
- [25:01]
Jenna Gross
I have a packet I send out after I send the contract. Well, you know, we always meet, whether it's in person or a phone call. If they're out of state, we meet and we talk through those things. I let them ask me any questions, and then I send the contract which outlines it in a more formal way than how I might have explained it. And then they come back to me with questions and we get through that. And then I send a packet that is kind of a good to know packet. And it details receiver fees, like what that's going to look like. And it also even down to. Sometimes the work room might make your drapery panel a little too long. Don't freak out. I'm going to have that hemmed and I'm going to have it installed, and we're all here to take care of it, and we're going to give you the best project that you are dreaming of.
- [25:48]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So how many pages is that packet that seems so detailed and so specific.
- [25:52]
Jenna Gross
It's not really. It's only like three pages. It's very simple, but it's just, you know, it feels silly. But people can lose their mind if something's not exactly right because they think, oh, I've spent all this money on it. But what I have to remind them is like, that's what I'm here for, is to oversee it and to make it right.
- [26:09]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
I love that mindset. How do you kind of cultivate that throughout the process or keep that top of mind for a client? When things are going great and when.
- [26:17]
Jenna Gross
They'Re not, I just remind them. I just, you know, I just say, I'm like, all right, the table is scheduled to be delivered in August. Let's cross our fingers. It actually comes in August. Right. Cause that's out of my control. So that is one thing is, you know, I do remind them that things are outside of my control. But one of the biggest values they get working with me is that I have these relationships with my vendors and at the end of the day, we all want everything to go as smoothly as possible. So we're all doing everything we can to make the client happy, right? So I'm just very honest. I just, I'm in just real life too. People are like, oh, that might be tmi or maybe you shouldn't. You know, I'm just very. I'm an open book.
- [27:06]
Caitlin Peterson
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- [27:53]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
How are you investing in some of those vendor relationships? And what makes you want to work with a vendor today? Or conversely, like, never work with a vendor again?
- [28:03]
Jenna Gross
Okay, so the vendors I love to work with have my back at all times, right? So if something's missing, they are going to spend every minute getting to me as quickly as possible. They're going to ship it and not charge me overnight. You know, they are going to do what they can so that I can make my client happy. They are people who like, invest time in me and they invite me to, you know, like today earlier I had a lunch and learn at a showroom and I love them because they invite me to those things. So I get to meet all these fun people and they just keep me around and they're just kind and they, they're just helpful and they know that if my business flourishes, theirs will too, and they have my back. Whereas some vendors don't really care and they say, oh, sorry, that didn't make it. You're just going to have to wait for it, you know, instead of trying to figure out where it is or.
- [28:52]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
That is so short sight. That drives me nuts.
- [28:55]
Jenna Gross
Oh, my goodness.
- [28:56]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
I probably drives you nuts for different reasons, but yes.
- [29:00]
Jenna Gross
And I had. It's so crazy. I had a wonderful vendor I worked with for years and she helped me with plumbing and all of a sudden we did a whole house project and three of these really expensive faucets weren't working right. And she just did not have it in her to care about getting this rectified. And I was so embarrassed because I was like, I'm sorry. She just, like, wouldn't reply to my emails and just totally ignored me and I just didn't why she wouldn't help, you know. And so it's like the vendors that are helpful and want to do right by you are the ones that, you know, I try to invest time in. And that's, you know, going to lunch or sending them handwritten thank you notes or, you know, just telling them how much I appreciate that they're helping me. And that makes me want to go back to them, you know, and we're all working as a big team, ultimately.
- [29:49]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
How do you discover new partners? How do you foster new relationships in the industry?
- [29:55]
Jenna Gross
Well, one thing that's really fun about Atlanta is that it is a really big design community and I have a lot of good designer friends who, you know, for 10 years we've been going to coffee to say, all right, what showroom are you liking? Or who's the best installer? Or do you have someone who can make my drapes? My workrooms backed up. And it's just such a good community here. And there are so many vendors, you know, it's just like if they've worked with someone and recommend them, then I know that I need to reach out and I need to get to know those people. But there's also just lots of events at ADAC and great ways to connect and meet people that you might not have ever run into or crossed paths with. So I'm very lucky to live in such a city that has all these design events all the time.
- [30:37]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
That's so true. It's also, I mean, ADAC is amazing. Just the Atlanta design scene is just one of the most welcoming that I've ever experienced.
- [30:45]
Jenna Gross
I agree. And it's part of changing where I wanted my business to go and putting myself out there. I can't say I'm too tired to go. I need to go. And once I go, I meet a wonderful person. And sometimes I just think if I hadn't gone to that event, I would never would have met so and so and then I wouldn't have had this vendor relationship. And it's just so important to go and meet new people. Even if you're scared and, you know, you don't know anyone there, it. It can be just so wonderful.
- [31:12]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What are the biggest kind of friction points for you in your firm at the moment? Like where kind of operationally or logistically or creatively or, you know, what is it that look at and you're like, oh, that's the next big thing. I have to figure out there's a.
- [31:27]
Jenna Gross
Lot of little things that aren't so crazy. But you know, the process was one that I really sat down and worked through in the last year. And I did that so that I can put it in front of the client's eyes. Because this is also something to say about the way the business has changed. Right. I was taking any and all projects and sometimes that was working with clients furniture from their grandmother, you know, or whatever that I couldn't stick to the same process. Whereas my process now kind of navigates through a whole new fresh room now. Okay, if they have two sofas already, that's fine. Right. That can fit into my process very easily. But it was really hard navigating all the different types of clients and where they were and what stage they were in. Whereas now I feel like I'm attracting clients that want to start more from the beginning. So I have really have a hand in what they're getting and I can follow my process us very closely.
- [32:22]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What did it mean to refine your process? Like was that just sitting down and putting pen on paper or what does that require of you?
- [32:28]
Jenna Gross
Yes, like I literally sat down, wrote down step one, step one. And you know, it's a bigger category and then in that category what I need to make sure happen and you know another thing can be you asked about friction is some of my vendors, you know, they might say oh you'll have this on Tuesday the 13th and then I go to pick it up on 13th and it's not there. And so I think my next thing is a contract with my vendors stating do you know if these window treatments aren't ready on the 13th then I am going to be liable for the scheduled installers time. The I mean it can really get messy and I spend a lot of money fixing things that are out of my control. And I think that is probably the number one thing I need to be a little more. Well, not as nice, you know and just I have to realize this is a business and you know, others mistakes. I can't eat those costs anymore. So. But that's hard because I don't like confrontation. But my lawyer husband, he was at a bigger firm and he just started doing contract law and it is because of my business and it is because of how much he realized there needs to be contracts and smaller businesses and people need, you know, attorneys who aren't on super high retainers to help them navigate these, these things. Because we're all working with all these different vendors and clients and it can get messy out of nowhere. Even if you have a tried and true process and great relationships with vendors, things can happen and people point fingers and it's got to be written down.
- [34:01]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So what do you think that would change for you? Would you. How would you feel the difference if you're able to put that into practice?
- [34:08]
Jenna Gross
I almost think that they'd respect me more. Like, I think maybe now, if it came down to, you know, let's say the window treatment work room is behind, maybe they're going to do, let's say Josh's, because they know that he's going to be mad, whereas Jenna is a little bit more of a pushover. She'll give me a few more days, but. So maybe I can earn some more respect just. And really put out there like, this is a real business and I need things to happen when you say they're going to happen.
- [34:36]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So is it about saying, you know, I want this on the 13th and it is absolutely ready on the 13th, or is it about getting a phone call enough in advance to know that it's not going to be Ready on the 13th, 13th? Are both of those acceptable outcomes, or is it really okay?
- [34:49]
Jenna Gross
They used to be, but then I realized with my process, I know that I need to book my installers, you know, X amount of days out. So if I book them for the 17th or even the 20th, I still need those window treatments on the 13th because I need to have them picked up. I need to have them ready to go at the client's home. Like, that gives a few days in case something's missing or something's way off. You know, if I'm going to be at this level of business, we can't wait until the 13th to pick up and install on the 14th anymore, because things do happen and things get lost or messed up or whatever. So even her calling me on the 13th would mess up my process because I have it all lined out now. And listen, I'm not saying, hey, I need these next week on the 13th. This is like eight weeks. So it's just a matter of getting organized on everybody's calendar. Right.
- [35:44]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So I love the way you just said that, that at this level of my business, this is no longer kind of acceptable.
- [35:50]
Jenna Gross
Right, right, right.
- [35:51]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
That's a really wild thing to step into. I think that's really profound.
- [35:56]
Jenna Gross
It is. And I'm just realizing, you know, that's what I have to be like. I have to put that out there and I have to stand my ground if I'm going to work at this level.
- [36:06]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So I think so many people, you know, who listen to the show, who ask us questions, you know, people so often ask, well, how do I level up? How do I level up my client? And I love that what you're saying is, you know, the business has to go with that. I think that's so important, for sure.
- [36:23]
Jenna Gross
And having the process and, like, what they expect, right? If you just say, hey, this is what I charge per hour. Great, hire me. But if you send a packet that defines what it's about to look like, they're going to feel like that's more in line with what they're paying for, you know, if it's a higher price point. So I've just felt that push in the last year and a half to really say, this is what I want it to look like, and this is what needs to come behind that to prove that this is what we are like.
- [36:49]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
I want to go back for a second to writing down that process. Where does that live for you now? You know, you kind of created that for yourself. Is that something you look at often? Is that something you reference often? Or was it more of. Of like a thought exercise? How does that show up in your day to day?
- [37:05]
Jenna Gross
Oh, it's typed up in a really pretty PDF with photos, and I send it out in a packet to clients after they hire me. And yes, Shayla and I know what the process is like. So right now we're in, you know, the process of just design. Right. And then there's several. So it's. It's just, we. We both know it. It's not that long. It's. It's just. That's the way we do things. It was just sitting down to show clients, like, this is how we do it.
- [37:30]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What does your presentation process look like? I know you said you're getting clients who are coming to you for color, but are you pushing people out of their comfort zone as well?
- [37:42]
Jenna Gross
Well, do you know what's really funny is I start with a palette that's got color, and 99% of the time, people say, oh, no, we want more. So I'm kind of testing how much they truly want, you know, if I haven't seeing their closet or seeing their. If I don't know them well, like, a lot of women are attracted to my work, and the husbands will say, we think it looks really fun. But, yeah, no pink, please. And no trims on the pillows. That's.
- [38:13]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
How much do you put in their house anyway?
- [38:15]
Jenna Gross
No, I don't, but.
- [38:16]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Okay.
- [38:17]
Jenna Gross
No, like pink is just. And it's really heavy on my website because for the last several years it's been hard to photograph stuff. But I have a 4 year old son and you know, it's Covid and people lived in their houses really hard. So all those projects that got finished up, I never got to shoot because they were just lived in much harder than any other, you know, two year time.
- [38:36]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Right, right, right.
- [38:37]
Jenna Gross
So I, I usually start with a Pinterest board and we both pin well, I let the client pin inspiration photos first because that's just the best way to give me an idea of what they're looking for. And then I start pinning things and they can comment on it. And sometimes this is a fabric or a wallpaper or a fancy window treatment, you know, just to get a more better feel if they streamlined or more traditional or crazy. So it's a good way. I feel like photos can just help communicate so much. So that's how we start. And then sometimes they hire me because they've seen a fabric I've used and we'll build around that. But most people are coming to me because they want a lot of color and that's so fun. But I'm trying to say like, you know, we can do a little bit of color. I am your color person. But it is best when I can go all out and everybody will be.
- [39:29]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Happier for that couple that isn't quite on the same page. How do you navigate that relationship? How do you get them both excited and invested in the project again?
- [39:38]
Jenna Gross
I'm just very honest and I'll sit down with them and I'll say, even if it's. How upset would you be if we had a pink pillow? Because your wife really wants the pink pillow. Like what if we do the pink pillow and then you get to pick the sofa fabric? You know what I mean? So it's like, I'm sure you've heard this before, but I giggle that I'm a part time therapist because it is is so important. Like I make sure they know I am decorating their home for them, not for me. I'm here to help and create their, their home, their backdrop. So it is very important to me that it's very collaborative. You know, if someone comes to me and says, I don't care, do this. Okay, awesome. I will. That would be amazing. But in real life, my clients have an opinion about their houses and I like to sit down with them and really talk about what they want the vibe to be and how they want their home to Feel. So we're just very much like a, you know, what. What can you really not stand? Like, what hurts your feelings to look at?
- [40:33]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
I like that. What hurts your feelings to look at what? How do people answer that?
- [40:37]
Jenna Gross
He'll say, or someone will say, like, I guess it's not that big of a deal. It's just one pillow. I'm like, yeah, see, so now let's compromise. And. But I'm never going to push pink. It's only if the wife just has to have it, right? But I will tell you, most husbands that they're in a relationship with someone who wants to hire me. They most likely are in a creative business, too. Do you know what I mean? So, like, they appreciate the colorful life I'm putting in their home. So they are not really opposed to much. I've just heard the please no pink quite a few times, which is fair.
- [41:12]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
You mentioned this a minute ago, and I've been looking at my own closet while we talk. Is what people wear always a good indication of how they want to live?
- [41:24]
Jenna Gross
I think so. Some people disagree, but I think that I think you are showing your personality. I mean, if you love color, for sure, right? Like, you want to be perceived, I think, as fun, and maybe you don't care as much what people think. You want to express yourself. So if you look in the closet and someone has a bunch of crazy patterns and bold colors, then they probably want. Want a really fun home, too. But again, I have to express a sophisticated home, because color, it takes a lot to make it cohesive and not look like you just threw a bunch of stuff together.
- [42:01]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Can you talk about that a little bit? How are you thinking about that layering process, about elevating in your work?
- [42:08]
Jenna Gross
So I was talking with a fabric designer today, and she's like, well, that's the hero. And I said, the hero. She's like, yeah, that's the hero of the scheme, and I love that term. So we will pick our hero, right? Like, and then that's either going to be, you know, like a certain motif or several colors or kind of, you know, it's usually a multicolor fabric that we can then pull different scales and different colors out of. So we take our hero, and then we say, you know, if this is the window treatment, it just depends on how layered they want their project to be. So do they want. Want to mix a pattern behind it, or would they rather it be on a solid surface? Or same as if it's a pillow on a sofa? Like, do you love the way I mix patterns and make it, you know, lively. Or do you need it to be a little more subtle? So we just take that Hero fabric and we pull solids. We pull textures and different patterns that are smaller and larger scaled to work with that Hero.
- [43:07]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
When you present to a client, are you showing them, you know, this is the fabric, this is the complement, this is the trim, this is the, you know. Or are you showing them kind of a more like, let's take a step back. This is the vision for the room. How do you help them understand what you have in mind?
- [43:22]
Jenna Gross
Well, so, yeah, I bring all the fabrics, I bring all the furniture samples so that they can get a good feel of how it all mixes and creates a cohesive look. So some people still can't visualize it, but I do create mood boards. Some I'll do renderings if they need it, but I think the best is for them to see it in person. So even my out of state clients, I will create a little box with all of the fabrics and furniture samples with the mood board and send it to them. And it's kind of a fun thing that they can sit down and go through, you know, maybe with a glass of wine or whatnot, and just see how they feel about all the different textures and try to visualize what they might have soon.
- [44:01]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
So what is the most helpful tool, kind of in your toolbox, to get somebody to a.
- [44:07]
Jenna Gross
Yes, I definitely think the mood boards. I think that really shows the pieces, the styles, the lines of furniture. And, you know, I will have my little fabric. I'll have an arrow, and I'll even put notes in it that say, this is the really fun, colorful option. We can also go neutral here if you prefer, and just let them kind of sit on that and think through it. Yeah, but definitely mood boards. People really need to see how it's going to all come together, I think.
- [44:33]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Where do you see the most opportunity for growth? When you look ahead.
- [44:37]
Jenna Gross
So when I look ahead, I'd like to think that I'll have a small team. I don't ever want it to be where I have a bunch of designers doing designs for me, because that's what I love. I love doing the design, and I love being creative. But I do love the idea of having Shayla doing the project management. Maybe somebody helping me with social, finally, maybe somebody running all the errands and getting all the samples or. Or, you know, going to pool if I need just a bunch of different pinks or, you know, just doing a lot of the background work because There is so much of it, and so I'd love to have a small team of people who help support each design, and I get to just be the lead on what the finished product looks like. I did start a fabric wallpaper line.
- [45:23]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
Oh, that's right.
- [45:23]
Caitlin Peterson
That's right.
- [45:24]
Jenna Gross
Yeah. And that's been really fun. That is an extension of color drunk. It's called Tipsy. So you can get a little C. Yeah. If you're not ready to fully invest in the color draw experience. So it's also just a love of really bold, fun fabrics that, in my opinion, are hard to come by. Like, there are a handful that I love and I've used a thousand times, but we need more. And then they're also at a really good price point, and they're available to not just designers.
- [45:54]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
When did you launch that? What was the thing that kind of pushed you to say, okay, like, the world needs this. This is important to me to put out into the world.
- [46:02]
Jenna Gross
So it had always been a lifelong dream. I always wanted my own fabric line, and I just realized that it was probably two years ago, so I do hand draw all of it, and I just dabbled. I'd done some, and I said to my husband, I was like, I've got to sit down and do this. Like, it's never going to happen if I don't sit down and do it and put it out there. And we were renovating our home, and I knew that there were some places I could have a lot of fun with it. So one of my fabrics, hullabaloo, which is my first one and favorite one, I used in bedding in my guest room and little stools in my mudroom. And I just knew that I wanted to use it, and I hoped that others would too, because it's just little fun pops of color that I feel like we all need.
- [46:44]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What were your goals when you launched your firm, and how has the way your business has changed, but also the way the industry has changed sort of reshaped some of your ambitions for your business?
- [46:55]
Jenna Gross
I think my goals for my business to start out were to obviously make money. Right. And not have to go work for someone else, because I love the flexibility that I have. But I think that the most important thing is I want to make people feel good. I know that sounds so silly, but I just feel like, like, in this world, we all need a little bit, and it's just been so great to help people live better in their homes. And I don't think that that's changed. I think that's always been a number one for me, and now the industry has changed for the better. I mean, it's made it very easy to do. And online I can do a lot for clients that aren't in Atlanta. I'd say half my clients are actually outside of Atlanta or outside of Georgia. So it's been great that there's all these tools and mood board, you know, templates and stuff that to help me communicate with those clients.
- [47:47]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What does success look like for you today?
- [47:49]
Jenna Gross
Success looks like being able to be who I am and helping others be who they are and showcasing that and bringing out the best personality that we can. And, you know, I have two young girls, and I also do want to show them like, we can do this, like girls can do this, and you can run a business and be really successful and then also still be a mother and be able to be at Thanksgiving lunch and that kind of stuff. So that's been very important to me.
- [48:17]
Unnamed Host/Co-Host
What's the best day at work for you?
- [48:20]
Jenna Gross
Ooh, I love going to the design center and having a vision of what I want this new project to look like and pulling all these fabrics and wallpapers and then getting back to my desk and, well, I should say floor and spreading it all out and just really pulling together what I think the best of the best could be. And, you know, with color, there's so many different patterns, and you have to sit down and make sure they're not fighting with each other, especially from room to room. You have to have a common color or something that kind of grounds them all together and makes it flow. So it's fun kind of figuring out that puzzle and then putting it all together.
- [49:02]
Caitlin Peterson
That's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. Before you go, if you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, find more great podcasts, check out new products, or browse job openings. Head on over to businessofhome.com if you have a note for the show or a story of your own to share. I'd love to hear from you, and you can email me@trade talesusbusinessofhome.com finally, if you're enjoying the podcast, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discuss the show. Trade Tales is produced by me, Caitlin Peterson with Fred Nicholaus and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Fraser McCullough. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you again in two weeks.