Jess Ebert on why delegation is the key to longevity

Summary

---

Trade Tales: Jess Ebert on Why Delegation Is the Key to Longevity

Host: Kaitlin Petersen, Business of Home
Guest: Jess Ebert, Four Story Interiors
Episode Date: March 25, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode of Trade Tales, Kaitlin Petersen speaks with interior designer Jess Ebert, founder of Four Story Interiors, about her journey from creative childhood to running a successful design firm. The conversation explores Jess’s pivotal career transitions, her confrontation with grief, and how learning to delegate has been instrumental for sustainable growth. Key themes include building a strong team, defining ideal clients, setting boundaries (including taking Wednesdays off), and adapting to the evolving demands of the design business, especially through PR and social media.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jess’s Path into Interior Design

• Creativity from an Early Age: Jess always loved rearranging her room and setting up her Barbies' house (02:05).
• Turning Tragedy into Action: The loss of her sister and a series of family health events led Jess to reconsider her career trajectory (03:09).
• Finding Her Calling: After a push from her realtor and recognizing her passion, Jess began taking on design projects and "jumped in trial by fire" (05:07).

“It was like love at first sight... I could do [walking through people's houses] all day long.” – Jess Ebert (02:05)

Building and Growing Four Story Interiors

• Imposter Syndrome and Early Success: Jess dealt with doubts but found client work quickly; after a few years, she felt established (07:01).
• Warning of Burnout: The challenge of having too many clients taught her that "more is not better"; overstretching led to lessons on sustainability (07:01).
• First Hires and Team Evolution: The progression from interns and errand runners to intentional hires was key. Her first official team member joined in 2020 (09:29).

“Having too many clients... is actually not beneficial. It can lead to, of course, burnout.” – Jess Ebert (07:01)

The Power of Delegation

• Letting Go and Structuring Roles: Jess worked to extract knowledge from her head and empower team members, emphasizing transparency with clients about who would be involved in their projects (13:29).
• Trial and Error with Delegation: She shared stories about balancing client expectations and team collaboration, eventually recognizing that her true value was in guiding the brand, not micromanaging every project (13:29, 18:12).
• Ownership Culture: Transitioning leadership in team meetings fostered accountability and pride in the team’s work (18:12).

“Making that shift of what updates do you have for me versus me saying, here are my updates for you, was a really pivotal, important shift.” – Jess Ebert (18:12)

• Emotional Challenge of Delegation: Stepping back felt strange and vulnerable, but Jess stressed its necessity for longevity (20:31).

Redefining Success and Setting Boundaries

• Taking Wednesdays Off: Instituting Wednesdays as her day off symbolized a major personal and business milestone, supporting creativity and life balance (22:21).

“Success is taking my Wednesday off, Caitlin. Yeah, success is... being able to say no to something that doesn’t feel good and not being scared of saying no.” – Jess Ebert (45:54)

• Team Flexibility with Structure: Embracing the “French way of parenting,” Jess established a framework with space for independence, helping foster trust and creativity (27:31).

Defining the Ideal Client and Saying No

• Benefit of Focus: Jess identified the critical importance of spotting red flags and filtering for clients and scopes of work that align with the firm’s goals (16:27).
• Saying No: Learning to turn down projects that weren’t a fit was liberating and ultimately led to a healthier business (16:15–17:51).

Adapting Through PR and Social Media

• From DIY to Delegating PR: Jess, with a background in PR, realized the landscape had shifted and hired a firm to handle publicity and social content, helping her firm reach new clients and keep her voice authentic (32:16).

“I had to wave the white flag and hire a PR firm because I saw the landscape of social media change so much so quickly...” – Jess Ebert (32:16)

• Maintaining Authenticity: Jess collaborates by editing and reviewing all content to preserve her voice, ensuring the brand remains personal and approachable (36:55).

Sustaining Creativity and Avoiding Burnout

• Maintaining a Creative Core: Despite growing in her leadership and ambassador role, Jess ensures she remains involved with the creative aspects that bring fulfillment (42:23).
• Encouraging Listeners to Pivot: She champions exploring new paths in life and career, reminding listeners that it’s never too late to change directions (45:25).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Delegation and Letting Go:
  “It's hard to let go. It is hard to delegate. That is one of... my weakness[es] is definitely delegation. I like to have my hands in everything. And so I am actively trying to not step in when I see something and let it get resolved.” – Jess Ebert (20:31)

• On Team Culture:
  “Everyone on the team is a working mother, which I find incredible. So everyone understands what it's like to juggle and commit to something.” – Jess Ebert (27:31)

• On Maintaining Fun and Perspective:
  “This is fun. This is a gift. I mean, you know, kind of going full circle back to where I started. You know, life is short... Let's have some fun. You know, this is an incredible opportunity that we get... Let's have some fun. This should be enjoyable.” – Jess Ebert (29:56)

• On Authenticity:
  “I did not want to produce content or create this character that wasn’t who I am. And so that’s why I held out for so long, because I was really worried about losing that identity.” – Jess Ebert (35:21)

• On Empowerment and Ownership:
  “It creates an incredible sense of ownership for the designers and the project managers... This is my baby. This is something that I'm really invested in. I am the one that's helping see this from A to Z.” – Jess Ebert (19:00)

• On Success:
  “Success is being able to say no to something that doesn’t feel good and not being scared of saying no.” – Jess Ebert (45:54)

---

Important Timestamps

• Jess’s Childhood Creativity & Tragedy: 02:05–04:26
• Transition to Design Career: 05:07–06:28
• Initial Business Growth & Burnout: 07:01–09:29
• Team Building and Delegation: 09:29–13:17, 18:12–20:31
• Defining Ideal Client & Saying No: 16:15–17:51
• Implementing Wednesdays Off: 22:21–26:38
• Team Schedule & French Parenting Analogy: 27:31–29:56
• PR and Social Media Evolution: 32:09–36:55
• Authenticity in Branding: 36:43–38:47
• Sustaining Creativity: 42:07–45:25
• Defining Success: 45:49–46:57

---

Episode Takeaways

• Delegation is essential for personal well-being and sustainable business growth.
• Clear internal structure and open client education are key to effective handoff and building trust in a design firm.
• Success is not just about saying yes—it’s about confidently saying no and creating space for personal fulfillment and team empowerment.
• Maintaining authenticity, both internally with your team and externally through branding and social media, is vital for long-term connection and growth.
• Periodic recalibration, including setting boundaries like regular days off, keeps creative energy flowing and prevents burnout.

---

For listeners seeking wisdom on running a creative business without losing your spark or sanity, Jess Ebert’s candor and clarity offer invaluable guidance—and a reminder that thriving means learning to let go.

Transcript

[Jessie Burt]

I actually learned this like it's the French way of parenting, where essentially you create this frame, and as long as you stay within the framework, you are free and independent to do what you want.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Trade Tale, where I'll be talking to interior designers about the challenges, pivots, and perspective shifts that come with growing a design firm. My hope is that you hear your own why echoed in these stories or an idea that sparks your own breakthrough. I hope it helps you realize that even when entrepreneurship feels lonely, you're not alone. My guest today is a designer who received a flood of new clients a few years back and soon realized that the abundance of work was doing the business more harm than good. As she pared down the pipeline, she brought the firm closer to its ideal clientele. And she explains how she started to clear a path for her own transition within the firm's workflow. I can't wait to share it with you, but first, a quick word from our sponsor. This podcast is sponsored by Garrett Leather, a global leader in premium upholstery leather designers know the details, make the difference, and when it comes to leather, Garrett Leather delivers unmatched quality, consistency, and service. With an extensive in stock collection of Italian leathers ready to ship within two business days, your vision stays on schedule without compromise. Discover why leading interior designers rely on Garrett Leather for luxury projects worldwide. Visit garrettleather.com to elevate your next design with confidence.

[Jessie Burt]

I was always a creative kid. I was the one rearranging my room for fun. Part of playing with Barbies when I was a kid was truly setting up the room in the Barbie house. And like, that was it. And then I'd be like, all right, great, I'm done. I remember my friend's mom was a realtor. I was in eighth grade and she took us to like prep for an open house on a Sunday. And I walked in and I was like, oh my God, this is so cool. You know, like running my hands over the countertops and, you know, it was like love at first sight.

[Caitlin Peterson]

That's Jessie Burt. Despite her interests, design wasn't yet on her radar as a potential career. Instead, she studied mass communications and soon began working in public relations. She was good at the work, but she knew that she didn't love it. Then came a year that she never anticipated when an unexpected tragedy rocked Jess family. It took everything in her to make it through.

[Jessie Burt]

Sort of had this really traumatic shift in our lives. In 2011, my older sister Passed away. She had skin cancer, and it was a melanoma cancer. And it eventually spread over the course of three years to her brain. It was obviously, you know, the most traumatic thing I have ever experienced in my entire life. I was pregnant at the time, So I was 14 weeks pregnant when my sister passed away. We had just moved to Charlotte a year before that, and so we're new to a new city. I'm newly pregnant. I've just experienced this. This profound loss, losing my sister. There was all of these things happening, and all I knew how to do was put my head down and move forward.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Several months later, Jess husband unexpectedly wound up in surgery for a burst appendix. And the very next morning, Jess was rushed to the same hospital to give birth to their first child. Those early months of recovery and new parenthood were grueling. But soon after, Jess returned to the office. And once she was there, she couldn't shake a growing dissatisfaction with the work, a feeling that ultimately inspired her to move forward in a new direction.

[Jessie Burt]

I started to see my performance in my role suffer, and I am incredibly proud of my work ethic. To get to a point where I was just like, I don't care anymore. I think that was really the sign for me to say, like, this is really not serving me anymore. And honestly, it's not serving my employer. I said to my husband, listen, I just. I can't do this anymore. You know, he was like, hey, I support you. Let's figure this out. And so I did.

[Caitlin Peterson]

In search of a path she felt passionate about, Jess found a potential clue in the joy she remembered when shopping for her first home.

[Jessie Burt]

The act of purchasing, of getting to walk through other people's houses, I could do that all day long. I would talk to my realtor. I'd be like, I think this wall should be this color, and I think this kitchen would be better if this. And she'd be like, okay, but do you want to buy it or not? I took a meeting again with my realtor, and I was like, I think I want to be a realtor. And she was like, no, nope, that's not going to be you. I was like, I'm sorry. And she was like, you're not a realtor. You are a designer. You have an eye, you have a passion, and that is what you need to be doing. It sort of kick started that passion. I just started kind of chatting with friends or anyone that would listen, and I would say, well, you know, I'm starting this design thing, and if, you know, anybody interested and someone I was friendly with at the time was like, you know what? My husband's recently started sort of a development project. You might want to get in touch with him and see if he needs any help from the design side. And I was like, absolutely. So I started getting into that very trial by fire. I mean, I walked in and they were like, you know, do you want to go through the electrical plan? And I was like, sure. And then going home at night and like pulling up all the books, all the things reading, I wanted to absorb as much as I could. Not only because I knew I needed to, but because I loved it.

[Caitlin Peterson]

In 2015, Jess launched her firm, Four Story Interiors. I wanted to talk to her about how she communicates her entire team's value to clients, the many ways hiring a PR firm is helping her navigate the changing social media landscape, and why taking Wednesdays off represents a pivotal moment in her entrepreneurial journey.

[Caroline Burke]

When did you start to feel like you were on solid footing, like you had the systems and the processes and like, when did you start to realize this is going to work, this is a stable business?

[Jessie Burt]

It felt really good very quickly. And I honestly, I didn't have a five year plan, a ten year plan. I didn't sit down and write. And eventually I did, Eventually I did. And I think it took a few years for me to really shake the imposter syndrome. That was a big thing for me. That took a while. And I would say it probably wasn't into maybe like year three or four where I really felt like I wasn't looking over my shoulder thinking someone was gonna say, oh, you don't know what you're doing, or you didn't go to school for this. And I will say in the beginning when I was interviewing with clients and I would have clients that say, you know, is this something you went to school for? And, you know, I said, no, I think creativity is not something you can teach. And I think there are so many incredible things that you can teach. And I just felt like it came naturally to me. But if you're looking for someone who was properly schooled in this, that's not me. And there are definitely people were like, yeah, that's, that's not, I, I, I do want someone who went to school for, and that's totally fine. It's whatever you're comfortable with. I think I was worked really hard to have a full client roster and that did happen pretty quickly. And I feel very grateful for all the people who were willing to share my name and to refer me and and to talk about the business because it filled up very quickly. And then I think it got to a point where it was too much. And that's not a great place to be either, to be honest. Having too many clients, it sounds like a wonderful problem, but it's actually not beneficial. It can lead to, of course, burnout and it can lead to being stretched very thin across a large number of clients where some clients feel the stretch. And that is not something I ever intended to do or wanted to do. But I think it was such a learning experience of just say yes because I wanted the work, I was hungry for the experience and I wanted that. But then when I got to that point where I had too much, I didn't want the business to suffer because I was taking on too much.

[Caroline Burke]

Did you start hiring at that point or how did you. Course correct.

[Jessie Burt]

I did. So, you know, there were a few things that happened. I did start, I did hire. It was a few years into the business when it was really growing and I just thought, I can't do this by myself. So I had, you know, like a summer intern and then I had someone who just essentially like ran errands for me on a part time basis. It wasn't actually until five years in, I was working with a client and I was explaining to her that I just really needed someone on a more consistent basis. And she said, I have the perfect person for you. So she introduced me to the very first sort of official hire of the business. I mean, the other, other gals I'd had before that, like I said, were just. It was just kind of a piecemeal like, oh, I need some help here. Oh, I'll take this intern for a few months. But this was the first time, and that was five years after the business that I was like, okay, there is intention, there is someone coming on board and what is their role going to look like and how will they support the business? And then a year after that I hired another person. And then a year, two after that I hired another person. And the growth was very organic in that sense of I wanted the work to support the people that were in, in, in the company. So that was probably. So that started in, I guess that would have been. Oh, actually my first hire was February of 2020. Oh my gosh. And we were like, okay, the schedule is going to be Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and it'll be a part time role. It'll be about this many hours and all this good stuff. And then, nope, a month later, it was chaos.

[Caroline Burke]

Oh my gosh what does your team look like today?

[Jessie Burt]

So today I will say the two women that I hired are still with me. So Amanda and Julie have been with me since 2020 and 2021 respectively. And they are, Julie is my project manager and Amanda started out as a project manager but has moved into a design role. And then I have Catherine who is my operations manager. So Catherine really handles all of the internal process. She handles all of our new onboarding, manages all of our trade accounts. And then now we are in the process of hiring another project manager. So the role will be I'll have two project managers and then I will have a another designer that will help me with all of the design work that I just at this point. So it'll be 11 years now. The business was started in 2015 and it'll be 11 years in May. And I am working really hard to pull myself out of sort of the day to day in the weeds of every single project and come to the business as a, a designer and B, sort of the brand ambassador for the company to say, you know, I, I still want to be out there and meeting with potential clients. And I, you know, I'm working with a PR firm on the social media aspect of it, looking at the business as a whole and running it in that way. And so in order to do that I've had to pull back a little bit and hire for someone who can help with the day to day designs. I'm still doing a lot of the designs because that's what I really love to do, but I just need an extra set of hands there.

[Caroline Burke]

How did you zoom out and start to say this is where I want to shift my attention and here's what the business is going to need to

[Caitlin Peterson]

make that happen because I think this

[Caroline Burke]

transition is a challenge, it can be a really challenging one and I think

[Jessie Burt]

it can be really challenging when you know, this is my baby. This is something that I completely changed the trajectory of my career. I started this from zero and the team makes fun of me a lot. I hold all the information in my brain and it is really hard for me to pull that out and to take a step back. And also when you're meeting with clients, the clients really want you and that's a hard transition to make, is to say, yes, it is me, but there's also a whole team and the whole team, you know, we're all collaborating together to produce this really beautiful result for you. And yes, you're going to get me, but you're also going to get these Other talented women as well. And I think that education on that for the client, I think is really valuable and it's really important to have, and it's something I've started to do more and more. Again, there was a little bit of a trial area where I said, you know, this is halfway into the project. I would say, oh, no, this is Julie, and she's going to handle the ordering and the whatever. And the client was like, say, what? Where are you going? And. And that was never the intention. It wasn't like, oh, I'm out. But it was more about like, well, I have to. If I have 12 projects happening at one time, I can't be in the weeds every single day on 12 projects. It just. It won't work. It will not work. You don't want me to do that. So I think the pivotal moment that happened for that was. I think it was in 2022, and we were coming off sort of the COVID boom, and let's just say my cup runneth over on projects. Caitlin. And we were incredibly full to the point where I. I think that some. That we're suffering here a little bit. I think that this isn't sustainable from the business side, and this is not sustainable for the clients. And so when I started to look at that as a whole and say, more is not better, that's when I really started to look into what I had in place and what was working and what wasn't. And in addition to creating these roles with my team, the other thing I really started to do was say no to clients and really trying to hone in on what is my ideal client and how do I find them and how do I get them to say yes to working with our business and how do I respectfully decline the jobs that are not going to benefit the course of the business?

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah.

[Jessie Burt]

And when I made that change and when I started to recognize that there were a lot of pieces that fell

[Caroline Burke]

into place just because the jobs were a more natural fit.

[Jessie Burt]

The jobs were a more natural fit. I was working really hard on spotting the red flags. And a red flag in my mind does not have to be, oh, it's just not a personality fit. I think the red flag is also what's the scope of the work and what's the quality of the work, and trying to identify that on the front end made it more successful for us. And saying no in a sense of like, okay, well, let me take a step back and say, what is our minimum? You are coming to us with. You want to refresh two rooms. Does that work for the business? Because I'm going to put 100% into a project with two rooms just as much as I'm going to put in a project, a whole home, and understanding that that amount of work is the same for this small project that's not from a financial perspective going to bring me a big return versus the other one where I'm still putting in a lot of effort and it's just a bigger, you know, looking at those and understanding what feels good from what's our minimum and have you worked with a designer before and all of those different things. When I started to, to really shape the ideal client and what, what they looked like then I was able to very easily say no to the projects that didn't fit in.

[Caroline Burke]

That, that idea of really starting to pull yourself out of the day to day now, what does that actually mean? What does that mean, handing off? How much of that are you explaining to clients and how much of that can just sort of happen internally and what does it take to really actively make yourself make that transition?

[Jessie Burt]

I think there's a lot of internal shift that the clients hopefully are not don't feel and that's more of educating them on the front end. So the conversation starts at the very beginning and I'm very upfront about that. You are, you know, you are hiring me, but you're also hiring my project manager and my other designer and the operations manager and my bookkeeper and all the whole package you are getting and it is all of us working together. You will see me more in some parts. You will see our project manager more in some parts. There is not a job or an item that leaves the office that I don't know about. We have a team meeting on Mondays every Monday where we sit down and we go project by project and we talk about everything that's going on. So even if it's not your project. So our two managers work on separate projects. They do not, they don't overlap. And so it's a great opportunity for someone to sit and listen and you know, if they're not privy to what's going on at the day by day, then they're able to, to understand what's happening with the business. And I think it's really important that everyone understands that. So I educate the client on the front end about that. I think internally is really where that shift has, has been made now that I've intentionally started to pull back and what that looks like is our Monday morning meetings. I am no Longer running those meetings. I am in the meeting and I am there and I am contributing. But our operations manager is the one who says, okay, let's get started. Making that shift of what updates do you have for me versus me saying, here are my updates for you was a really pivotal, important shift that I think just helped us all to say, okay, this is how Jess is going to be involved. And I also think it creates an incredible sense of ownership for the designers and the project managers that are on this job to say, you know, this is my baby. This is something that I'm really invested in. I am the one that's helping see this from A to Z. And I think the quality of the work is better when you have that much more ownership over the project.

[Caroline Burke]

Was it challenging for you personally to make decisions?

[Jessie Burt]

Oh, please, let's talk about that. Yes. Oh, yeah. Get your popcorn, Caitlin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. It is very challenging when you have put years of work and late nights and tears and felt the brunt of client dissatisfaction and you have been the therapist to a client and their financial advisor and their marriage counselor and their babysitter, maybe at some times. And so you have put so much into it that when you start to step back a little bit, it feels funny. It feels like, am I doing the right thing? Is this really where I should be? Maybe I should just go back to just being me. I mean, you really, you know, it's hard. It's hard to let go. It is hard to delegate. That is one of, you know, on those interview questions, like, what's your strengths and what's your weaknesses? Well, I'll tell you, my weakness is definitely delegation. I like to have my hands in everything. And so I am actively trying to not step in when I see something and let it get resolved. And of course, if it doesn't, then that's when I'll jump in. But it's been a challenge for me. I'm welcoming it because I do think that it is a necessary direction in order to create longevity in this business and longevity in the company. And so, because I understand how important it is, I'm trying very hard.

[Caroline Burke]

How is that shift opening you up for new things in the business?

[Jessie Burt]

I will say honestly, it has been a goal of mine to take Wednesdays off for years.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Why Wednesday?

[Jessie Burt]

I will tell you. I think so Wednesday. When I lived in New York, I was working for a corporate event planning company for high net worth individuals. And what that meant was we put on these very large, elaborate conferences in San Francisco and New York City. And then we would do these small pop out events. And it was incredibly stressful. It was incredibly high energy. It was long hours. And Wednesday mornings I would wake up and I was like, I hate Wednesdays. I was like, I'm two days into work, I'm exhausted already. I still have three more days to go. And so I started with some friends. I started an IHW cocktail on Wednesdays, which was, I hate Wednesdays. And it was our, like middle of the week, like we got this, ladies, like, we can do this, you know, just few more days to the weekend. Hang in there. So I think there's probably part of me that's like, Wednesday is my day to celebrate that I've made it a few days. And so Wednesdays, I will also say, like, from a practicality standpoint, Mondays are. We're in the office all day. I do not take meetings with clients on Mondays because it's the time for all of us to be together and to set the course for the week. And then Tuesdays really lean into client meetings, site visits. Wednesdays have this nice natural little pause. And I'm leaning into that pause of saying, okay, work is underway. I have laid the groundwork with my team. Everybody knows what they're doing this week. I am not necessarily going to disappear on a Wednesday, but I am not going to take client meetings. I am not going to go to site visits. I will be available to answer emails or of course, if there's an emergency, but I'm going to use that day however I want and then I will come back refreshed on Thursday, finish up the week on Friday. And it just felt very natural to have that Wednesday. So for years I have been like, well, I think I might take Wednesday off and it hasn't happened. And I said it to a client last year and I said, you know, I think I'm gonna start taking Wednesdays off. And she was like, you know, good for you. And I saw her a few months after that and she's like, how's that taking Wednesdays off? And I was like, it hasn't happened yet. But let me tell you, 20, 26, Caitlin, I've started taking some Wednesdays off.

[Caroline Burke]

Okay, and how does it, what do you. What is it? What does it change? What does it open up?

[Jessie Burt]

I think for me, it just gives me a minute to recalibrate. You know, I have, I have three kids. I have this full time business. My husband also works full time. He owns his own business. There's just a lot. Oh, I also have three dogs that it's, there's a lot. And I think it's given me the opportunity to re. Energize a little bit creatively. As anybody knows, when you're working in the creative side, you know, you can't say, okay, at Thursday at 9:00am I'm going to be creative and I'm gonna have great ideas and, and I'm gonna have, I'm gonna solve this whole family room scheme right now at this, at 1:45 on a, on a Tuesday. It doesn't really work like that. Like, the creativity just kind of flows. Some days you have it, some days you don't. And I don't know. This, this opening up of, of the middle of the week has allowed sort of a little bit more positive energy for me just to kind of be like, okay, I can kind of make this day whatever I want. If I want to be creative or if I want to be in the office or if I want to take a run or maybe have lunch with a friend. It's really given me. It's just shaken things up a little bit, which again, in year 11, I think is, is been really beneficial to shake things up a little bit.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Looking for that perfect finishing touch for your interiors, check out Garrett Leather, the go to source for premium Italian leather. The company has a dedicated team of professionals to help you navigate your options if you need something extra special. They also offer custom finishing. Qualified designers can open a pro account online to view prices, check inventory and purchase leather at any time. Shopping for leather has never been so easy. Simply visit garretteleather.com and select Become a member to open your account today. That's G A R R E T T leather dot com.

[Caroline Burke]

So is everybody sort of like, do what you want with your Wednesday day or where is the rest of the team on Wednesday?

[Jessie Burt]

So our team has a schedule. So everyone on the team is a working mother, which I find incredible. So everyone understands what it's like to juggle and commit to something. And so our schedule really, that is one thing that I've worked over the last few years. Full transparency. I've been kind of like, yeah, work when you want. Except for Wednesday, except for Mondays. Mondays is the team day. And then naturally the weeks change. Maybe we have a meeting on Wednesday with a client. Maybe we have, you know, a lunch and learn on a Friday. And maybe we have a site visit on this day. And every week looks different. That's, that's one of the best things about this job is you will not get bored. But I have found that I, as I pull out of the day to day and as I give them more ownership in their roles, I did need to become more consistent with a schedule because I think it's helpful for everyone to understand the expectations of where they're supposed to be. And so Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays, those are really our days. Wednesday is a day where you can. If you want to work, great. If you don't, that's okay too. If there is something where a client needs to meet with someone on a Wednesday and I've decided that I'm not, you know, that's not my day, then they will need to take the lead on that. But I have tried to create an environment of flexibility within certain parameters. Is it working? I think so, yes. I mean, listen, we, we all have really busy lives outside of whether you have kids or not, whether it's just life is busy. And, and, and I, by creating, like I said, it's, I actually learned this like, it's the French way of parenting where essentially you create this frame and as long as you stay within the framework, you are free and independent to do what you want. Right. And so there are guidelines and there are rules, but then inside of that, you have the flexibility to be your own person and to, and to be independent. And the expectations of the client comes first. We are communicating in the way that our business feels appropriate. You are updating the clients on a weekly basis. If we're not seeing them in person, there are all of these roles and these processes in place. And then outside of that, you do with your time, with what you will. I mean, and I think it cultivates an environment where people just feel a little bit more relaxed. And in a creative field, I think it's nice to have a little bit of relaxation and also a little bit of fun. I am really big on having fun, but I take my job very seriously. And I think it's really important to understand the distinction between the two. The job is very serious in the sense of this is creating a home for somebody. This is creating a space where someone can feel, you know, happy when they walk in the door and they are proud of their space. And it creates a sense of something when they, when they're home. That is really important. Also spending a lot of money, it is a luxury to hire a designer. It absolutely is. And I take that very seriously. I take my clients finances very seriously and I take my role in their lives very seriously. However, let's have some fun, guys. Let's have fun. This is fun. This is a gift. I mean, you know, kind of going full circle back to where I started. You know, life is short. It is incredibly short, and I do not think for a minute that we should take that for granted. So let's have some fun. You know, this is an incredible opportunity that we get, and I hope that creating that sense of that environment with my team and also with my clients and saying, like, you guys, this is an incredible opportunity, like, we get to create these beautiful spaces. Let's have some fun. This should be enjoyable. That, to me, is. Is sort of, you know, the ultimate goal in all of it.

[Caroline Burke]

You mentioned that you're working with a PR firm now and kind of shifting into more of that brand ambassador role in some ways. What has it been like to have professionals in your former profession now helping guide your business moves?

[Jessie Burt]

I know. Isn't it funny? And, you know, for years, obviously, I did my own and.

[Caroline Burke]

Right. And you're like, I know how to do this.

[Jessie Burt]

Well, I did. I mean, I did. Absolutely. It's been great to have that in my arsenal, to understand how to speak to PR professionals, magazines, to send an email and get right to the point and hit those talking points and have a little bit of a foundation and understanding and a background on what people are looking for. I will tell you, though, that it has changed so dramatically from when I started to where we are now. I mean, I had to wave the white flag and hire a PR firm because I saw the landscape of social media change so much so quickly that, you know, for a while I was just kind of like, Instagram. You know, it's just, you know, it's just a kind of a fun thing to do. I'll post some. I'll get some pictures taken, and I'll put them up there every so often, and, you know, maybe I'll post something funny of my kids and, you know, that's it. And then I started to really see the shift in the business and see some other design firms that I was following, and I was like, this is interesting. Let me just kind of track this for a little while and see where. Where this goes. And when I started to get clients through social media and real clients, real true clients, I was like, okay, let me take a minute, because I think there's something here. And then I realized that my job was not to create content. I needed to hire someone else to create that content for me. Because I would be in a meeting and have this beautiful presentation and leave, and then I'll say, like, I didn't get a single picture. It felt very funny for a while to be like, let me. Let me take a video of myself or let. Let me do this, and I'm gonna. Or I'm gonna send over this pitch to somebody. But it, you know, it wasn't. It was. It wasn't in the right way. It just. There was a lot. There was a lot. There's a lot of noise. And so I finally hired a firm last year that. It's just been wonderful to take that off my plate. So they manage the PR and they manage the social media. And it is funny because there are still some times when some relationships that I've created from the early days of when I was doing this that will reach out to me. And. And I'll say, well, I actually have a. Have a PR firm now, so you can. You can chat with them. But again, another thing for the business, it's been a wonderful investment in taking that off of my plate.

[Caroline Burke]

Do you see the difference in terms of sort of, like, the kinds of stories that are being told or kind of the traction that you're getting with some of those efforts?

[Jessie Burt]

Yeah. You know, I will say I held out for a really long time. One, because I had a background in it, and I was like, well, this is something I can do on the PR side. And then on the social side, I was really worried about losing authenticity. I did not want it to feel like somebody else. I wanted my content and my voice and our story to feel like me. Because there are a ton of talented designers in Charlotte and elsewhere. And I think when you're hiring a designer, not only are you hiring for their talent, but you're also. It's a personality fit. You are spending months, years with these people, and if you're lucky, they will come back to you for another project. And so as important as it is to have talent and business acumen, it is also really important to have a personality fit. And I did not want to produce content or create this character that wasn't who I am. And so that's why I held out for so long, because I was really worried about losing that identity.

[Caroline Burke]

How do you keep that authenticity top of mind when someone else is sort of. Is someone else drafting and then you're doing a final pass or, like, how does. How does that process shape up?

[Jessie Burt]

So how. How our team does it is. We'll do. Let's say we're doing, you know, a couple hours of filming, so we might go to a couple different projects. They'll film me, you Know, chatting, doing some project tours. Those are really fun. Again, we're constantly asking clients and the social media world, like, what do you want to see from us? What do you want to hear? Do you want before and afters? A lot of, like, what you do, Very interactive. Like, what do you want to hear from me? What do you want? What designers? What are you interested in? Like, you know, I'm talking to somebody out there. I want you to feel value in what I'm saying. I don't want to just be a talking head. And, you know, there is so much content out there right now. I want to. To be able to create something that feels valuable to people. And so they will film me, and we'll do a lot of that. And there's. And that's really a lot of. It's kind of off the cuff. They'll just kind of let me talk and spitball and share ideas and talk about what we've been working on. And then I review it, and I review the. The text as well. You know, if there's a caption underneath of it, I will either write it or I will rewrite what they. They have created for me. They might give me a little bit of a guideline of, like, you know, this is, you know, it's. It's spring, and so we want to talk about, you know, pool season or whatever it might be. And then I will go ahead and write it again. Going back to, you know, writing is what I used to do, and so I feel very comfortable there. And so I will edit it to what I want, and then I'll watch the video. And they give me the opportunity to, you know, just say, like, I don't love. You know, I don't love me talking about that in particular, or I stumbled over here. Let's not do that. And then there have been times when I've just said no to the video entirely.

[Caroline Burke]

I don't want to do this on the Internet.

[Jessie Burt]

Or I film it and then I see it and I'm just like, I go back to these again. I go back to the PR days of when I was in school. You did not put something out there unless it was deemed newsworthy. And it is a little bit of a conversation and I'm having again to kind of pull back a little bit and just kind of open my arms up and say, okay, let's. You know, I trust you. You're the experts. You tell me people want to see my pancakes. I'll show you the pancakes. I don't know well, but you're doing

[Caroline Burke]

it with a very specific audience in mind. This is to get work, right?

[Jessie Burt]

Yes, I think that is the goal. The goal is to find those people who a may not know about me and to speak to them and also look at the people that I've already worked with and continue to stay top of mind for whether they have another project or whether their friend has just moved to town and is looking for a designer. And it is to also share with people what, what we can do, what we can create. And on top of that, find like minded clients, those, those quality clients that, you know, that we're all searching for.

[Caroline Burke]

And what does that mean on social media then like, how do you find that person? How do you find that person? Or how are you tailoring content to attract that person?

[Jessie Burt]

First, I want to position myself as an expert in the industry. Eleven years in now, the imposter syndrome has gone. I would say 99%. I would be lying if I didn't say there was a little baby imposter sitting on my shoulder every so often. But for the most part, that is gone. And so what I can tell you now, after over a decade in the industry with a very robust client portfolio is to say I. Let me guide you on some of these project tours. Let me tell you why this type of countertop is better than this. And let me tell you why the process of ordering your cabinets from the very beginning of your project is going to help with the lead time of your overall, you know, the finished, finished product. I can speak to all that. So I can speak to people who are looking for an expert, but in a way that is in my voice and my personality. And again, I think like attracts like. And if, you know, the things that I'm saying and the words that I'm using and the inspiration that I'm putting out there, whether I'm traveling with my family or I've gone to a great restaurant. If that inspires you and if that connects with you, then I think there's a great chance that we would work really well together. And that's what I want to find out there is I want someone to say, oh, I just went to that restaurant the other night and oh, I, you know, I would love to travel to that hotel and you know, and she's bringing in inspiration that I may not have thought of. And all of those things that I can create for this ideal client can kind of come through those channels and ways that I could reach them that I might not necessarily be able to in other, in Other ways.

[Caroline Burke]

I want to ask you about, you know, this shift you're making in your business now as you. As you kind of adjust your role. Do you worry about getting too far away from the creative work, or how have you set it up so that you know you won't get too far from the parts of the job that you still love the most?

[Jessie Burt]

That's a great question. I know at the end of the day that this is my business and this is my brand, and I created four story interiors for being one of four kids, and this is my baby, one of my babies. And I know and trust that I won't pull away so far that it doesn't feel like an extension of me anymore. I feel so fulfilled when I'm working with a client and see the project from start to finish or to see dirt, and a few years later, there's a family living in a home like there. There is just something so beautiful and fulfilling about that. I know that I won't get to a point where I don't want to be involved in that process, and so I don't see myself losing that passion. I also see my. Know that the steps that I've put in place now have given me the ability to see this through long term, because I'm not heading for burnout, because I'm putting these things in place that are allowing me to say, you know what? Creatively, I'm here, and this feels really good, and this is something that I can sustain for a long period of time. This came up recently with a friend is this conversation of, you know, I'm. I'm in my 40s, and I have a lot of friends who are sort of in that part of their lives where their kids are older, the kids don't need them as much, and they're kind of looking at saying, what's next for me? And I think there's so much value and kind of going back to this whole, you know, idea for me of starting somewhere, stopping course and starting new in a different way. And again, mine came from a very tragic place, but yours doesn't have to. It's a great opportunity for someone who might be struggling to say, like, I'm not happy in my career, or maybe I paused my career to have children, and now I'm ready to restart my career. But, you know, I did. I was a math teacher before, and I don't want to go back to that. You know, I think there's. I think there is so much value in finding something that you love and doing It. I mean, that to me, it's. And it. And it's never too late in the game to start fresh. And I hope that people that listen to this, if they are just starting out or if they're halfway through and they're like, this isn't for me. Hey, maybe you're listening to this designer and you're like, this isn't for me. That's good, too.

[Caroline Burke]

Go be a math teacher.

[Jessie Burt]

Go be a math teacher. I think we all get caught up in this, in this box, and we put ourselves in this box and we're afraid to break out of it a little bit because of all the things I've mentioned. Vulnerability, imposter syndrome. What do I want to do? And I think, you know, I hope that listening to this maybe gives someone the opportunity to test the water. So a little bit.

[Caitlin Peterson]

What does success mean for you today?

[Jessie Burt]

You know what success is? Taking my Wednesday off, Caitlin. Yeah, success is. It sounds backwards, but success is being able to say no to something that doesn't feel good and not being scared of saying no. And it feels like I can really intentionally enjoy the work that I'm doing and the time that I'm spending with my team and my clients without feeling rushed or stressed and feeling like I can empower my team to create a beautiful product. And seeing all of that and looking at where I started and. And where I am now, it feels. It feels really good.

[Caitlin Peterson]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to keep up with

[Caroline Burke]

the latest design industry news, check out

[Caitlin Peterson]

new products or browse job openings, head on over to businessofhome.com and if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. If you have a note for the show or a story of your own to share, I'd love to hear from you and you can email me@trade talesusofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Caitlin Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Lindbergh and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson.

[Caroline Burke]

Thanks again for listening, and I'll see

[Caitlin Peterson]

you back here next week.