Lindsay Anyon Brier on building space for joy into her firm

Summary

---

Trade Tales – Lindsay Anyon Brier on Building Space for Joy into Her Firm

Podcast: Trade Tales
Host: Kaitlin Petersen, Business of Home
Guest: Lindsay Anyon Brier
Date: September 24, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Kaitlin Petersen interviews Lindsay Anyon Brier—founder of a San Francisco-based full-service design firm and home boutique—about her journey in design, her approach to leadership, and the intentional cultivation of joy within her business. They discuss pivotal career moments, growth strategies, the value of team building, expansion into a new market, and Lindsay's philosophy on core values, mentorship, and client relationships.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Influences & Finding Design ([03:01]–[05:18])

• Lindsay grew up surrounded by creativity: her mother ran an antique shop, and her father was involved in real estate and historic home restoration.
• Her mother’s eclectic kitchen table gatherings inspired Lindsay, though she didn’t appreciate it until later:

  "As I reflect on now, I was like, wow, that was incredible." — Lindsay ([04:01])

• After college at Dartmouth, a career in event planning segued into design post-9/11, leading her to work for a small San Francisco firm before launching her own practice in 2007.

2. Starting Out & Evolving a Signature Style ([06:41]–[09:54])

• Lindsay’s first solo project was a renovation for her aunt and uncle.
• Her style fuses an antiques background with contemporary design, inspired by both California and East Coast aesthetics.
• Key to early growth: word of mouth, strategic press features, and showhouse participation.

3. Navigating Entrepreneurship and Motherhood ([10:16]–[11:14])

• Balancing business with motherhood was challenging from the start. Lindsay recalls bringing her newborn to a job site, highlighting her deep commitment to both roles.

4. Team Building & Leadership Philosophy ([11:14]–[14:10], [21:21]–[22:56])

• Lindsay has prioritized hiring and team building from the beginning:

  “I'm a big we over I person. It is certainly a group lift always. And I really value the perspective of people around me.” — Lindsay ([11:41])

• She candidly discusses the learning curve of delegation, the impact of both successful and unsuccessful hires, and her evolution toward collaborative work.
• Cultivating a joyful workplace is intentional, achieved via:
  • Empathetic, calm leadership.
  • Emphasis on work-life balance and extracurricular activities (exhibits, volunteering, art classes).
  • Enlisting a COO, Mike, who formalized joyful engagement into company core values.

5. Core Values & Company Culture ([16:34]–[19:31])

• Writing, refining, and living by core values has shaped the firm's culture.
• Core values serve as both a manifesto for current and prospective employees, and a guide for daily operations and interpersonal dynamics:

  “It feels like this rule book that's very basic, based on the golden rule, but having it on paper for everyone is fantastic.” — Lindsay ([16:55])

• Staff were actively involved in crafting and continually referencing these values, making them authentic rather than performative.

6. Atelier Launch & Retail Philosophy ([24:00]–[30:47])

• Lindsay opened Annie and Atelier to fill a void in the San Francisco market—offering one-of-a-kind, handcrafted pieces and providing a physical space for designers to experience objects firsthand.
• Challenges included the complexities of representing artisans and managing tight margins, but the store became a celebrated destination:

  “A few years later, we were named best store in America to find one of a kind goods.” — Lindsay ([27:34])

• The atelier serves as a bridge to the creative community, a canvas for storytelling, and a salon for events and panels, embodying the firm’s ethos that “design is a conversation.”

7. Expansion to Dallas ([33:04]–[36:58])

• The firm’s second location in Dallas arose organically, based on staff moves and personal connections.
• The store model intentionally blends art gallery, showroom, and retail, catering primarily to the trade (50–60% of transactions).
• Lindsay values thoughtful, curated growth over rapid proliferation:

  “My plan at this point is not to have a hundred of them. So just a couple thoughtful curated shops, I would say.” ([36:54])

8. Leadership Team Structure & Management ([37:00]–[42:17])

• The leadership team includes Lindsay (founder), Mike (COO), a design principal, and a senior designer, all bringing diverse experience in systems, operations, and high-end residential/hospitality design.
• Lindsay remains more hands-on than some peers, seeking balance between oversight and delegation.
• The team has grown to about 15–16 staff, with a mix of in-person and remote roles and a hybrid work policy tailored to project demands.
• Lindsay discusses the complexities of managing collaboration, mentorship, and learning in hybrid settings, and the constant refinement of policies to ensure equity, productivity, and flexibility.

9. Mentorship & Industry Involvement ([45:09]–[48:10])

• Lindsay is active in the Design Leadership Foundation, mentoring students from diverse backgrounds and encouraging them to explore the varied careers within design.
• Her own journey—from Ivy League grad unsure about design to accomplished firm leader—informs her empathetic approach to mentorship.

10. Defining Success & Client Relationships ([48:10]–[49:57])

• Lindsay’s metrics for success hinge on autonomy over her time and the quality of creative collaborations.
• She emphasizes communication and trust as the bedrock of long-term client relationships:

  “I think clients remember the highs and the lows and they watch how you handle the lows of the project...So I think the early days of that are just really important in a project.” — Lindsay ([48:53])

• Attention to detail, transparency, and mindful communication are non-negotiables.

---

Memorable Quotes

• On collaboration:

  “There's just so much more we can accomplish as a team and there's so much more joy in it, honestly.” — Lindsay ([13:36])

• On company core values:

  “You involved us in writing them...we bring them out when we do retreats, when we take a pause from our work, and we bring them up when things go right.” — Staff feedback relayed by Lindsay ([17:38])

• On the power of listening:

  “You learn so much by listening...It's like a design doesn't resonate with the client, like figuring out...we're trying to help our clients articulate their taste rather than put our own stamp on them.” — Lindsay ([23:30])

• On joy in work:

  “If I'm going to come into an office and be away from my children all day, I wanted it to be joyful.” — Lindsay ([13:51])

---

Important Timestamps

• 03:01 – Lindsay describes her creative upbringing and early exposure to antiques and real estate.
• 05:28 – First design job and lessons learned at Foster Gwynn.
• 06:41 – Launching Lindsay’s own business and her stylistic influences.
• 09:08 – Early firm growth via reputation and press.
• 11:14 – Team building ethos and importance of hiring.
• 14:10 – Leadership style, empathy, and building a joyful office culture.
• 16:34 – The impact of clearly defined, collaboratively developed core values.
• 18:08 – Role of HR consultant in shaping company culture post-pandemic.
• 24:00 – Opening Annie and Atelier: vision and implementation.
• 27:58 – Boutique’s impact on brand, community, and business model.
• 33:04 – Dallas expansion and lessons from opening a second location.
• 37:00 – Structure and dynamics of the firm’s leadership team.
• 42:17 – Team size, remote vs. in-person work, and hybrid workplace policies.
• 45:09 – Industry mentorship through the Design Leadership Foundation.
• 48:10 – Lindsay’s current definition of professional success.
• 48:53 – Foundations for strong client relationships.

---

Notable Moments

• Lindsay’s near-miss with Flight 93 post-9/11, catalyzing her career change to design ([04:17]).
• Candid testimony on work/life balance: bringing a five-day-old baby to a job site ([10:33]).
• Concrete examples of team activities that foster joy: volunteering, art classes, museum trips ([14:14]).
• The Atelier’s shift from a zoning necessity to a brand-defining retail experience ([26:03]).
• Insightful discussion on collaborative authorship of company values, making them a living, practical set of standards ([16:34]).

---

Conclusion

This episode offers a rich window into the strategic and cultural backbone of Lindsay Anyon Brier’s business. With candid reflections, actionable leadership lessons, and a consistent throughline of intentional joy and collaboration, Lindsay’s insights are a blueprint for cultivating a design firm that delivers not just creative results, but also meaning and satisfaction for its team and clients. Her measured approach to growth, preference for authenticity, and investment in people—both internally and in the larger design community—underscore her own version of lasting success.

Transcript

[A]

I think I've learned that I'm just. I'm not an expert in everything, but I have a good lens of seeing the big picture and that there's just so much more we can accomplish as a team and there's so much more joy in it, honestly.

[B]

Hi, I'm Kaitlyn Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Trade Sales, where I'll be talking to interior designers about the challenges, pivots and perspective shifts that come with growing a design firm.

[C]

My hope is that you hear your.

[B]

Own why echoed in these stories, or an idea that sparks your own breakthrough. I hope it helps you realize that even when entrepreneurship feels lonely, you're not alone.

[C]

My guest today is a designer whose.

[B]

Business spans a full service firm and a home boutique with outposts in San Francisco and Dallas.

[C]

As she tells it, she couldn't do.

[B]

It without her team, a group guided by a shared set of core values that shape everything from strategic planning to the way they reply to client emails. I can't wait to share it with you, but first, a quick word from our sponsors. This podcast is sponsored by Regina Andrew, a luxury lifestyle brand specializing in lighting, furniture and decor. Born in the Paris of the Midwest, the brand's roots run deep in the city it calls home. The style and character of Detroit have shaped who they are, what they make and how they make it. With a deep commitment to soulfully crafting heirloom quality items, Regina Andrews Pursuit of Inspiration has taken its team across the world to discover materials and forms that drive its designs crafted with passionate attention to detail in a quest to deliver the unexpected. Regina Andrews products much like the journey that inspired them, each have a story. Save 10% off your next purchase now through November 15th by using the code BOH TenginaAndrew.com this podcast is also sponsored by the Shade Store. The Shade Store offers designers everywhere a simplified resource for handcrafted custom window treatments.

[C]

With a team of dedicated design consultants.

[B]

Available to guide you through the material and product selection process, a vast network of measure and install professionals to ensure the perfect fit, and more than 150 showrooms nationwide. The Shade Store offers the bespoke customization of a high end workroom backed by the support of a national organization. Let the Shade Store take care of the window treatments for you by signing up for a trade account [e-mail]™.

[A]

I was always a creative kid going way back. My mother had an antique store in San Francisco when I was born and then at the same time my father was working for a Real estate developer who was sort of a big figure in California. I was surrounded by a love of real estate and craft and furniture. My parents moved out of San Francisco and bought sort of a historic home and started restoring it. They didn't have a lot of money, so I feel like they were always working on it. They ended up getting divorced, and my mom held onto the house. She changed the home into a European style bed. At breakfast, she'd have all these creatives sitting around her kitchen table. You know, someone doing stem cell research from MIT was sitting next to Malcolm Gladwell's understudy as a high schooler. Absolute, absolutely hated it. I was like, this is so weird. My parents are always doing weird things. As I reflect on now, I was like, wow, that was incredible.

[B]

That's Lindsay Anyambrier. For college, she headed east to attend Dartmouth, where her math skills and passion for design pulled her in two different directions. After graduation, she took a job that landed her somewhere in the middle.

[A]

So I kind of stumbled into event planning without really knowing what to do after college. And it was a way to travel the world, literally. I was in East Malaysia, I was in Cannes, I was in Rome. For big corporations and help them plan events, the perk of the job is that my colleagues and I, a few of us, would always try to stay and travel for a few extra days. So I was actually supposed to be on Flight 93 coming from Rome to New York, back to San Francisco, but I had changed my plans and was with a colleague down on the Amalfi coast. The conference ended September 10th, and so we were down there. The entire industry changed. Autodesk or Charles Schwab or whoever the big corporate firm was putting on these events. They were like, we'll just have our conference in Denver this year. We're not going to get abroad. So it just sort of forced my hand to say, okay, like, Lindsay, what are you going to do with your career?

[B]

Forced to pivot, Lindsay decided it was time to pursue design. She enrolled in night classes at UC Berkeley and took a job as a design assistant.

[A]

I worked for a small firm called Foster Gwynn in Jackson Square. The husband had an antique gallery, and then his wife had a very good interior design business within this gallery space. So I was privy to seeing a lot of the interactions that were happening in the gallery. One of my funny memories is remembering that Michael Smith walked in with Michelle Pfeiffer, his client. I came running down to the basement to my colleagues, and I was like, michael Smith is here. And everyone was like, Lindsay, did you notice that Michelle Pfeiffer is already here? So it taught me so much because I would see those interactions of incredible designers helping collectors buy really, really good quality antiques. I worked for their firm for five years and took a big leap of faith and just went out on my own.

[B]

In 2007, Lindsey officially launched her firm. I wanted to talk to her about the value of hiring a coo, the team building efforts that keep her firm closely connected, and how her brick and mortar store has opened her up to the broader design community.

[C]

You said that, you know, you thought this was going to be this, like, really flexible business, but what were your goals when you launched your firm?

[A]

I just was like, absolutely in love with the industry. And, you know, I knew I wouldn't be walking into huge projects at the time, but I put my own take on things and I felt like I had an interesting perspective of like an appreciation for antiques and real educate professional education and antiques, having worked for this firm and gallery. But also I was influenced by Michael Taylor and Francis Elkins and interesting California designers that were finding a mix of like a classical inspiration with sort of a fresh take. And like, what did that look like in San Francisco in the 2000s? And I had a lot of connections to the East Coast. I still do. So I. I love kind of bringing California to the east coast and vice versa a little bit. So. And one thing that this gallery did that was interesting at the time is they started not, maybe not at the Armory show, but at certain, like, really good shows. They take like a 16th century Tuscan credenza, but then put a contemporary piece of art above it in the booth to show the mix of how people wanted to live. And that was really interesting to me. And I think that is sort of thread through my own career of like the mix of craft and antique and more contemporary works.

[C]

Did you have like a key client, a key project to launch your firm with?

[A]

It was actually a small project for my aunt and uncle who had been a client of this firm, and they wanted to do like a small renovation. And my previous firm sort of felt like, Lindsey, this is just, why don't you help your aunt, uncle on the side? This is like a small. Too small for us. And yeah, it kind of. It all kind of launched from there. Word of mouth and some early press. Doing my own apartment was in traditional home pretty early on in my career.

[C]

How did the business start to grow and evolve?

[B]

In the early days, it was really.

[A]

Word of mouth, I guess it was a mix of press, legitimizing, my work, a really good reputation with a few clients that were effusive about telling their friends and networks about us. And then in 2009, I did the San Francisco showcase, which I always feel like is a great rite of passage for young designers. I mean, you can return to showcases, of course, like, throughout your career, but it can be a great thing to do early on in your career, I think.

[C]

Did you feel the difference after that?

[A]

I think it was just like a very slow. I think this is sort of my whole firm has been sort of a slow, steady growth, but each of those was like, certainly a stepping stone in helping me grow my confidence and, you know, lots of setbacks and things to keep you grounded along the way as you grow as well.

[C]

In those early years, like, what part of running the business tested you the most as an entrepreneur?

[A]

I mean, I. I think the timing of it all was just so ironic that when I really got my footing was when I was pregnant with my first. My eldest child.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And I took him to a job site when he was five days old, which I expect with the construction dust is like a terrible idea that I wouldn't recommend to anyone. But I was really, really kind of, like, wholeheartedly passionate all in about my career as well as being a mother. So it was just trying to, like, tread water and find the balance, which I've gotten a lot better at, but it's still really intense. As a mother of three, I would say as our firm has grown today.

[B]

When did you start hiring?

[A]

I have always had a team, I think that is really, really critical to our. Our success. My first full time hire was a woman by the name of Sarah, who. She was with me for six years. And, you know, she had a great temperament. She was very organized. She didn't have the professional training, but she was in school for design. And we sort of grew together, I would say. And she, she worked for me for almost seven years before moving back east. But throughout, Annie and I would say that people are our team and people have been critical to our success. And I'm a big we over I person. It is certainly a group lift always. And I really value the perspective of people around me.

[C]

That's amazing. Is that, is that just always how you've approached the work, or was that something you. You learned over time?

[A]

That's a great question. I think. I was an only child and I played tennis in high school, which is a very individual sport and singles, so it's it. And I was always daunted by group Projects I remember as a. As a child, so I think it's taken me time. But now I love collaboration and that comes in so many different forms with architects and other consultants, as well as my own team collaborating with clients, collaborating with artisans. So now I'm a huge proponent of teamwork, team play. I'm so happy my kids play team sports.

[C]

What helped you get more comfortable working as a team but delegating also entrusting your team over time?

[A]

I think just some of those early hires that I knew I could lean on. And then also, you know, we've of course had hires throughout the years that haven't worked out. You certainly put your guard up. You, you vet, you try to be really careful about the team you put together and thoughtful about it. But I think I've learned that I'm just. I'm not an expert in everything, but I have a. A good lens of seeing the big picture and that there's just so much more we can accomplish as a team and there's so much more joy in it. Honestly. I've always said, like, if I'm going to come into an office and be away from my children all day, I wanted it to be joyful.

[C]

What have you done throughout your career to cultivate that joy?

[A]

I mean, I think as a leader, I'm very empathetic, probably to a fault sometimes. I'm very calm, which has helped me a lot in design and in construction and with my relationships. I really value the people around me. I value their work, life balance. We work really hard while we're here, but we all leave. We all try to leave around the same time and go home and do other things. We. We went to see Ruth Asawa's exhibit at SFMOMA last week. We volunteered together. We did a watercolor class this summer. We. We try to carve out the moments that seem hard to do when you're staring at your list of deadlines but are just so important to take a pause and do something fun together. One pivotal moment for me was I hired our COO. He joined our firm in 2022 on the gallery atelier side. And then six months later, I was posting a job for a chief operating officer and he was like, Lindsay, I can that I'm right here. That's what I've done for room and board and at Gap Inc. And I can do this. And putting Mike in. Mike is sort of just been this incredible part of our team for the last few years and having his ear for. He's, you know, very systems based but weaving joyful engagement into our everyday is sort of. We've written it into our core values that we wrote and it's, it's part of our philosophy. And, you know, people do it in different ways. I know people have summer Fridays and different leave policies, but I think there's a huge emphasis now in the workplace on giving people time and space to do non billable work and coming back and being really productive and enthusiastic about their work.

[C]

Do you feel the difference kind of coming out the other side of that?

[A]

I do. I. I think writing, writing our core values was a pivotal moment for us because it put on paper everything that was important to me about how working at Annie would feel and what we expect from our team. And it's this great document to refer to when even something small doesn't sit right. Like if a conversation goes sideways, you're like, but one of our values is mindful communication. So it feels like this rule book that's very basic, based on the golden rule, but it's having it on paper for everyone is fantastic. And I would say, you know, one of our employees came to me and said, you know, everyone writes core values and puts them on their website and publishes them and pretends they have this great culture. But you involved us in writing them, we talked about them, we had multiple drafts of them, and we bring them out when we do retreats, when we take a pause from our work and we bring them up when things go right. And when things are, you know, we call them like exceptions. We hope they're exceptions.

[C]

How did you begin to implement that? You know, how did. What did it take to get your team involved? Did you have a facilitator or was that something you were spearheading coming out.

[A]

Of COVID I would say critical char growth has been team members, full time team members, but also slowly coming around the right independent consultants that support our business. And one of them was an HR consultant that I hired a few years ago, sort of at the end of COVID when we were all just. I mean, I feel like everyone brings Covid up on your podcast, but it's.

[C]

I mean, I think it changed all of us.

[A]

We were coming out of COVID and my husband is an attorney and had been really helpful to me in writing legal documents and monitoring some compliance, but realizing that, you know, a software payroll platform is not an HR consultant and we needed someone, you know, on speed dial that could help support our team. And it's just, it's just been a very positive experience because it, it feels like this independent support advisor that can, like an employee, can lean on and have a independent conversation with. And of course, our leadership team can as well. And so they were the facilitator that sort of helped us write the. I would say we wrote the core values, but they really helped facilitate the process.

[C]

What were you thinking about as a team as you started brainstorming ideas? Like, was it very. Was it about kind of who do we want to be? Or was it about really codifying, like, this is who we are?

[A]

I would say it was who we want to be going forward and putting something forward to potential employees. Like, this is the culture that we are trying to maintain here, and this is the. The commitment to excellence of our work. And this is how we're trying to strike a balance of a commitment to results, but also a really positive, great place to work, hopefully. And so it was. It was like a manifesto of moving forward, I would say, and also just managing a bigger team, a team that is now in multiple states, that doesn't always get to watercolor together and drink wine on Thursday at five together. So being creative in the way that we can forge those connections over zoom in our more limited interaction with our remote team.

[B]

We're taking a quick break to remind designers about one of the benefits of the Shade Stores trade program. Trade. Exclusive access to the Shade Store's com program for Roman shades, drapery, and cornices. Combined with the Shade Store's extensive collection of more than 1,200 in stock materials, the creative possibilities are virtually endless. Visit theshadestore.com trade and sign up for a trade account today to learn more.

[C]

To prepare for this interview, I know I asked you what your superpower is at work, and you wrote really beautifully.

[B]

About the power of listening.

[C]

Is that something that's always been a part of you? Is that something you cultivated? And how has that shown up in your work?

[A]

Gosh, I think I've just always been an observant person, and I'm not sure if that has to do with being an only child, but I just was always taking everything in. I would say, yeah, never had a desire to be the center of attention. It's always resonated to me that you just, you learn so much by listening. And I think sometimes I've been told, like, oh, Lindsay has a poker face or she's really hard to read. But I'm just often quiet as I take in a space or listen to a client or listen to an architect. And I think working in the Bay Area or starting my firm in the Bay Area has been. I've figured out that. I think I've worked from people from all over the world with lots of different backgrounds. And the landscape architect, the architect, the contractor, the client, we're all coming to a meeting with a different perspective. And like, hearing all of that, taking that all in is so powerful. And not just trying to say something for the sake of saying something and just being empathetic and also understanding that like, when someone's upset, it's often about something else in their life. Right. So just being able to just stay really calm, stay open to different perspectives, take in lots of feedback that you're getting. Right. Sometimes it's just so fascinating. Kind of. It's like a design doesn't resonate with the client, like figuring out, you know, I always say we're trying to help our clients articulate their taste rather than put our own stamp on them. I think the. The sense of place, the architecture, the client's background and perspective, it all comes together as this puzzle. And you're like trying to create something personal that excites them, makes their life like, enhances their life and their lifestyle. Right. So there's. There's a lot of listening in that.

[C]

I want to pivot a little bit because I feel like one thing I would love to have you walk us through is sort of how your business actually evolved. We've referenced the atelier, but I want to share really how you moved into that space. You launched your business, and then a few years later you opened a new arm. What pushed you in that direction?

[A]

It's funny because it's twofold. It's part of that something that was in my blood through my mother that was like, I will have a shop. I will be a cop girl, girl like my mother. And then, you know, it also came about from doing a lot of client shopping in whether it was Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, London, Paris, and feeling like it was so important for people to. Or for designers to look and see in person craft and what they were purchasing for clients homes. And I was just sort of inundated with this tech world of like e commerce, E commerce, E commerce. And feeling like there was no place to memo one of a kind things to kind of add that extra layer when you're installing a client's home. I just felt like that was really missing from the San Francisco landscape. And people were throwing up these websites so fast that like, sometimes they didn't even put dimensions of the lamp on the website. Like, how do I even understand what the scale Is. And like, is it photoshopped and is it made by hand? And what is the story behind it? And then wanting to be the sort of corridor where a lot of architects and designers in San Francisco have their studios at Sacramento Street. And it was having a renaissance in the early 2000 and tens. The whole story is that it was zoned partly that it needed to have a retail component to the.

[C]

Oh, so you had to open a shop. Yeah.

[A]

So it was like. And other people kind of put a couple pillows in the window to kind of pass code. And then, of course, I was like, all in. And was like, no, we're doing this. And, you know, opening Indian Atelier was a huge, pivotal moment for our firm, for our brand. And what happened was I quickly learned that lots of lines I was looking at. If I, for instance, went to, like, High Point or a trade show, lots of lines were already represented in the Bay Area. And it wasn't as easy as just going and, like, placing orders.

[C]

And sometimes you probably couldn't be a rep or you couldn't carry the items.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. So I was like, what. What am I.

[C]

What am I going to put in my store?

[A]

And it forced me to really dive deep on fighting, finding artists and artisans that weren't represented and weren't well known. It was tricky, but just the best thing that ever happened for Annie and Atelier, because, you know, a few years later, we were named best store in America to find one of a kind goods. And I realized that part of studying art history for all those years was like, I just love the storytelling aspect of it, and I love being able to tell you where this vessel was made and by whom and what materials. And I feel a lot better about having you put it in your home because that it tells a story, and it's made by hand, and it perpetuates craft. So it was a tricky business endeavor. It still is, to be honest.

[C]

The past decade hasn't been like, the golden era of home retailing, I would argue.

[A]

No. And just the artisans we're showing are, you know, they're not thinking out of, as a lens of, like, oh, the wholesale is going to be 30% of this, and then so. And so marks it up, and then the designer can mark it up again. It's just. It's just not. It's not what an art. It's not how an artist then is thinking of it. So the margins are not always great, but it's a wonderful passion project that I keep going at it. How did.

[C]

How did having the Atelier, change the. Change the design business or change. Change the shape of your team as well.

[A]

It just really elevated our brand and gave us this other lens to create. You know, we really have always invested in beautiful photography. We photograph every single product ourself where a lot of brands or a lot of shops just take, you know, the makers photography and Photoshop and make it look. We always photograph our own work. So we were creating like a lens within, within which to see all of these objects. We were presenting them in like a really minimal gallery space to like create like I think the same vase in our shop looks so different because there's a lot of negative space around it. And I love seeing a designer, like a really contemporary designer or a really traditional designer, and they'll come in and they'll buy the same base and they'll do something totally different with it. Right. So it just opened us up to a much wider audience to interact with. And you know, as I've told you, Caitlin, I'm like kind of a shy person, so that doesn't always come naturally to me. But opening up our space as sort of a salon where, you know, we try to not just have a book signing where there's white wine and a author sitting at a table signing books. We always try to have it be a really interesting panel of like, you know, that sort of led us to our brand guideline says design is a conversation. Like there's just really interesting people that like spontaneously walk into our space and have a conversation with us. And then there's very sought out, well executed collaborations that have come with it too. And they're conversations in different ways. Right. And then now we're in a new space. I was able to purchase a commercial condominium during COVID that had been a day spa.

[C]

It was a heavy red, heavy renovation, I'm guessing heavy renovation.

[A]

It's in the movie the Joy Luck Club as like a dark red space with curvy walls. And now it's glass and steel and white walls. But we, we are now up kind of half a flight of stairs off the street and we've actually had clients call us, hire us from just driving by the windows. It's pretty amazing. So it, it's led to a very interesting clientele for our design studio and more of a national brand awareness for what we're trying to do in the atelier. And just the. The brand is now like speaks of itself and there's a whole team of people that are part of that brand now. So it's. It comes Much more naturally to, like, have created and elevated a brand and kind of. I feel like I'm behind stage or off stage and we're creating these beautiful styles spaces, but it's not the Lindsay Anyon Breyer show always.

[C]

As someone who doesn't necessarily want the spotlight all the time, it sounds like the retail store has been a really successful sort of billboard for your business, and you didn't have to, like, put your face on it, whether that was intentional or not. Has that been an interesting byproduct of the store?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think I've gotten more comfortable being a bit more in the spotlight and really have met a lot of interesting people such as yourself and have the opportunity to have conversations with people, but I don't need that in any way. But opening a magazine and seeing a full spread of one of our homes, like, I love the work. To be the star of the show or opening a magazine and there's a piece of On Annie and Atelier, like, that brings me tremendous joy and satisfaction, I would say.

[C]

What has expansion looked like for you since you first opened the store?

[A]

We. Well, we moved locations, as I mentioned, in San Francisco to a larger space that gave us a little bit more floor space to play with. We're now trying to figure out the studio part of that because, oh, no, it was designed with a very hybrid schedule, and now we're a little bit more in office, although we're still maintaining a hybrid policy for most of our staff, depending on their core duties. We had an employee that wanted to move back to Texas at the end of the pandemic, and we sort of started. I. I had a lot of personal friends that had left California and New York for Texas, and we just started kind of having conversations with people about Dallas being an interesting market to test expansion. So we have opened second location in Dallas, and it's a very different space than our San Francisco studio. But I absolutely love it. It's really gorgeous. And it's a little more off the beaten path than we probably should be in a town that we're not as well known.

[C]

That's a lesson in hindsight.

[A]

I think so. I mean, I think the atelier is this hybrid of art gallery, designer showroom, and retail shop. Yeah. And so I purposely didn't want to be in the design district, but in hindsight, that probably would have been, like, the more straightforward answer because, you know, so much of our core businesses is selling to other designers. Really, that's sort of where our focus is now, is the trade across both locations or yeah, probably 50 to 60% of our transactions are with designers.

[B]

We're taking a quick break to remind designers about Regina Andrew. Founded on the belief that everything they do should electrify the room, Regina Andrews sparks self expression and creativity through unforgettable luxury, home decor and design. Join their trade program and receive exclusive benefits like no minimum order requirement, white glove, shipping options and early access to sales. Plus, podcast listeners can save 10% off your next purchase by using the code BOH10 at checkout now through November 15th. Learn more and start [e-mail].

[A]

How has.

[C]

Opening in Dallas made you think about the brand's future growth? Do you see more outposts of the atelier in your future?

[A]

I don't know. Not a lot of outposts. I think there's some wonderful things, as I've said, that come from having brick and mortar and the human interaction is just really wonderful and spontaneous and joyful. But at the beginning of the pandemic, I was so happy that we had invested in photography and we had built out E commerce because then we had people just doing sidewalk in store pickups and we'd run out to their street with their prepackaged order. Right. So there's like some really wonderful things that come from being able to host people, from being able to have events, to have artists in, to have artist talks. And I, I'm so happy that we have brick and mortar, but they, they are a lot of work and my plan at this point is not to have a hundred of them. So just a couple thoughtful curated shops, I would say.

[B]

Can you tell me a little bit.

[C]

About that leadership team? The CEO, coo, design director, and senior designer, and how you identified who you wanted in those seats and what you wanted those roles to be?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think the most pivotal one, as I've mentioned, is having a really experienced COO who has. Mike has a background in from room and board and from Gap, and he's also run a bunch of other small businesses, some related to family businesses. So he's very systems oriented, which has been really great to have that sort of leadership internally. Like there's a lot of people in design where their partner in life sometimes steps in to take over that role. And I never wanted that for myself, but my husband's a great outside legal counsel for us, but that's just like where I like to keep it. And then we recently promoted a senior designer to design principal and she has a really great background in a lot of hospitality work at Bama and Nicole Hollis. So again, like, understands the complexity of working out of state, working internationally. All the different parameters that come with hospitality design, I think is great training for residential. And she is kind of helping, you know, we're working towards her, helping me free up a little bit more of the day to day. I was, I was very inspired by your conversation with my friend Chloe Warner, but I, I think I'm probably staying a little bit more hands on than the way she structured her firm. And then we have another senior designer, Krista, who's just also really talented and very, very organized and a great project manager. And Mike and I have invited Lindsay and Krista into a lot of conversations recently about decisions we're making about the firm and about operations and about our team and about our systems. And you know, again, like, everyone brings a different perspective to the table and sometimes we're going to decide I'm going to have to draw a line in the sand and decide what's best for our firm. And it's not going to be exactly in line with what everyone else has had, you know, what their experience has been or what their opinion is. But I really value all of those opinions and the fact finding through it and learning their perspective of like, what has worked and not worked at other places they have worked. For instance, I often find that it's.

[C]

Really hard when there are so many details to manage about the work itself, to refocus a meeting from just, okay, what do we have in front of us that we need to get done? What's coming that we need to be thinking about so that it can get done? It can be so hard to pause and say, okay, like, let's reflect on last week. Like, for me, I'm like, last week is done. What is it required of you to. Or how did you get yourself in the mindset of really cultivating those conversations?

[A]

I think we've had a lot of conversations about the benefits, but also the pitfalls of a hybrid system. And I'm very keyed into like wanting my junior team to learn and observe as much as possible. And you can't always pick all those subtleties up on zoom. And sometimes like if the contractor calls with a problem and you hear how the senior designer handles themselves on the phone, like, there's so much to be learned. So, so we're just trying to reinforce all the different lessons that come with being creatives, but also being in a really personal, highly specialized client service industry. And I think I just know that, like, if we don't teach ourselves, train ourselves Train our staff, mentors, team. Like, you know there's going to be exceptions, the same exception in the next project. Right. So I think it's important too. We try to have Friday wrap meetings and pull out of the Friday wraps. Like what should we bring to the Monday morning meeting? The team meeting. That's can add value going forward and just being honest about when things don't go perfect. And so, so many things are out of our control. But like how can we control the variables? How do we pivot when we can't control the variables?

[C]

How big is your team today?

[A]

The design team and the ops team combined is 12. Okay. And then the atelier team is like three to four. We hover around 15, 16.

[C]

I know there's some people who are remote, but are you slowly pivoting towards bringing everybody back into a physical space somewhere?

[A]

I don't think so. Yeah. We have sort of head of client services on the atelier side. It lives outside of Chicago and she coordinates with our, a lot of our design clients, other designer clients around the country, like helping formulate custom orders through the atelier, facilitating all those orders. So there's a few people that I think will always be remote, but we are, we're trying to find the balance of all those opportunities to collaborate in person, in the office. But also know that, you know, there's some parts of reviewing a drawing, creating a drawing, reviewing a intense detailed proposal that can be done from the quiet of your home and allow you to spend less time commuting, which adds to people's satisfaction with sort of their work life balance. I think so. And trying to be, you know, a little bit flexible to. People have just, people just have different schedules of, you know, when they need to pick up their dog from the dog sitter or their child from child care. But we are trying to like refine our policy around it so that it's equitable and fair, but also leads to the most productivity and the, the, the most opportunity for collaboration.

[C]

Where have you landed the high?

[A]

We have all these like little like asterisks about it. But, but, but that high level is three to four days in the week as, and it really has to be guided by what the projects demand more than what the individual desires are.

[C]

So it could change, it could like change over time depending on your workload.

[A]

Yeah. And maybe you're on site five days this week and, or five days in the office and then you have a lot of follow up from that and you're going to do two or three days at home. Next week. But we're trying to just be really thoughtful about our meeting times and what meetings are okay on zoom and what meetings. We really want to just like, gather around a table and be together.

[C]

You've been involved in the DLN for a long time, I believe, but how did your work with the DLF come about?

[A]

You know, I think I'm always looking for ways to give back and engage in ways that I might be able to help someone. And when I talked to Tom Kligerman about his founding of the Design Leadership foundation and their annual trip to Mississippi State, I'm just sort of a person that tries to say yes to things when things sound worthwhile and interesting. And I think a lot of people come out of hearing a student talk at a DLN summit and are like, wow, that's amazing. And they're like, I'm going to do something with it. But I really, like, booked my ticket to Mississippi State for a few months later and we did mock interviews with students. We looked at their portfolios. I just would sit at a round table and every 10 minutes a different group of students would come and ask me whatever they wanted to ask me. And I think what was interesting for me is like, I had the perspective of coming from an Ivy League school where I wasn't, it wasn't anticipated I would go into interior design. There's also a lot of students at a place like Mississippi State where they're that first generation, college educated member of their family and their parents are also like, we did not send you to college to study interior design or architect. And for the male students, like, some of them wanted to study architecture, interior design, and like, there were sort of social, cultural boundaries there that they were kind of pushing in their family's expectations. And that was, that was really interesting to me because I think that, you know, I could just empathize with feeling a little lost in your career in your 20s, like, you know, you have this creative spirit and how are you, can you make a career from it? What are you going to do with it? Where are you going to go? Like, at Mississippi State, the program is pretty focused on commercial work, commercial applications. And it was so fun to go tell them, like, you know, you might be a restaurant designer, you might be a landscape designer, you might be a residential interior designer. Like, there's so many different. You could be a product designer. There's so many different ways to work in our industry. That was enlightening to them and really rewarding for me. So I've, I've stayed involved with them. And I actually joined their, the board of the dlf. And, you know, I just, I've seen so many careers shaped by mentors, and it's sort of an important place for me to, to sit now.

[C]

I would say, what does success mean to you today?

[A]

I think I'm just acutely aware of time. So being able to dictate how I spend my time professionally and outside of work is highly important to me. Like working with other really creative people. I love collaborating with other consultants, working with clients that trust us.

[C]

What for you is the biggest secret to a successful client relationship?

[A]

You know, I think I'd go back to mindful communication, transparency, open communication, building trust early that you can, you know, I think clients remember the highs and the lows and they, they, they watch how you handle the lows of the project and they're going to have lows in the project that are, you know, I think clients get to a point where they've written so many checks, but, like, nothing is built yet and it's hard and they're just, you know, I always sort of like obsess about the details and the spelling errors early on in a client correspondence. Like, spelling errors are a big pet peeve for me because I'm like, we need to show our clients that we have attention to detail with everything we do and that we're building their trust. And so I think the early days of that are just really important in a project.

[B]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, check out new products or browse job openings, head on over to businessofhome.com and if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. If you have a note for the show or a story of your own to share, I'd love to hear from you and you can email [e-mail] Trade Tales is produced by me, Katelyn Peterson and Carol Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you back here next week.