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Trade Tales
Melissa Oholendt on how to become the creative director of your design firm
01:02:19
Melissa Oholendt of Minnesota and Colorado-based firm Oho Interiors on the business partner who helped her firm set its sights higher, the strategy behind identifying an Instagram audience, and how she stays above the emotional fray when it comes to discussing finances with clients.
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- [00:03]
Melissa Oland
We are always talking about money, having those conversations, and trying to make our clients as desensitized to the conversations as possible. Because really, when we are able to do our best work is when we have full disclosure from them on where they're comfortable financially.
- [00:22]
Caitlin Peterson
Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Trade Tales, where I'll be talking to interior designers about the challenges, pivots and perspective shifts that come with growing a design firm. My hope is that you hear your own why echoed in these stories, or an idea that sparks your own breakthrough. I hope it helps you realize that even when entrepreneurship feels lonely, you're not alone. My guest today is a designer who has guided her firm through some major changes in recent years, including opening a second office halfway across the country and the introduction of a new business partner. She explains how every step she's taken is a building block toward a bigger vision. I can't wait to share it with you. But first, a quick word about becoming a BOH Insider. Hey designers, it's a new year, which means it's the perfect time to start thinking about what you really want from your business and also how you're going to get there. If you're ready to get some real momentum behind those goals, consider becoming a BOH Insider. It's a membership program tailored to the needs of busy design professionals that gives you exclusive access to BOH reporting, as well as a weekly curriculum of online workshops led by some of the industry's most respected voices. Even better, you'll also get access to a rich archive of past courses so you can always find the guidance you need no matter what challenges you're navigating in your business. The benefits of becoming a BOH insider today@businessofhome.com bohinsider.
- [02:18]
Melissa Oland
I feel like as a kid I always just had a gut instinct for loving interiors. When I thought about being in interiors as a high school student, I always thought of it as my own business, which kind of led me into my college path and sort of actually is what ended up derailing me from pursuing an interior design career. I just had a very well meaning professor say to me like, hey, I think I see what you want and what you want is your own firm. And that's really not what the industry is like right now. And you know that was in the early 2000s. The industry was different. It was very luxury. You apprenticed under someone, if you were lucky, you got to buy their book and then you could become the head of a firm. And so Having that conversation with a professor really just shifted my world and made me doubt everything and everything about myself. In a way, it definitely threw me off my access for sure.
- [03:12]
Caitlin Peterson
That's Melissa Oland. After graduation, she found her way to the finance world, where she worked in corporate communications. But her search for a creative outlet would eventually inspire a seismic career shift.
- [03:27]
Melissa Oland
My only skill set that was even remotely creative at that point was a camera. I loved film photography and so I kind of capitalized on that and became a photographer and then ended up doing that for a decade. Left my career in finance, became a photographer, did that for a decade, and I was shooting mostly weddings, some kind of wedding stuff, moved into lifestyle work, and then towards the end of my photography career, I did get into interiors photography, which ended up kind of reigniting that passion for interiors. It was a really wild and wonderful career, but it was very much based in what I could do and what I had the capacity to do and really wasn't a scalable business.
- [04:09]
Caitlin Peterson
Melissa kept going until a particularly difficult year cast her doubts in an even clearer light. The desire to shake off those limitations is what ultimately inspired her to take a different path.
- [04:24]
Melissa Oland
2016 was probably one of the worst years of my life. My beloved grandfather passed away. We found out we couldn't have kids biologically. My mom was diagnosed with cancer. And so I had another kind of moment where my whole entire world tilted for me. It really cemented this idea that I love being an entrepreneur. I love the strategy behind it, I love running a business, but I don't love the idea that I'm the only person contractually obligated to show up. So if the worst thing in my life happens, I still have to be there. I knew at that point I wanted a business I could scale. By 2019, I had started winding down the business so that at the end of 2019, I could really shut it down. By summer 2019, I was like, okay, we're going to give the interiors thing a go. I'm going to see what happens. Let's give it a year and just see what happens. I officially started OHO in November of 2019. And then of course, Covid happens three months later and really kind of exploded everything for me.
- [05:24]
Caitlin Peterson
Today her firm has grown to include a nine person team spread across offices in the Twin Cities and Black Forest, Colorado. I wanted to talk to Melissa about the business partner who helped her firm set its sights even higher, the strategy behind identifying her Instagram audience, and how she stays above the emotional fray when it comes to discussing finances with Clients,
- [05:51]
Caroline Burke
what did your business look like in November of 2019?
- [05:55]
Melissa Oland
Oh, my baby business, it was. I had no idea what I was doing, so I was like, hey, I'm just going to throw it out there to the wider, you know, of my community. Like, I'm offering interior design now. Like, does anyone need help with some furniture or does anyone need help styling a shelf? And at that time, obviously, Instagram was very, very, very prevalent in all of our lives. And so I would just kind of document the things that I was doing. I got my first quote, unquote, big job from one of my husband's coworkers who had just built a very, very lovely home and needed to fill it with some furniture. And so I very much took on that job with vigor and excitement. And I still am very proud of the work that I did. I am not proud of the business things that I did at that time, but I'm very proud of the end result that we ended up with for my very first client. And so grateful for them for sticking with me through.
- [06:58]
Caroline Burke
Gosh.
- [06:58]
Melissa Oland
The things that I didn't know, like putting furniture on plan in scale and, you know, those are skills that I did not have. I didn't. I didn't know cad. I did not couldn't draw an elevation. I really just was there with a tape measure and an instinct and a hope and a prayer. Basically. Yeah, we had renovated a house, I would say lightly renovated a house, kind of added those, like, architectural touches that we love now and all of the furniture touches. And when I was a photographer, that house was featured in Domino magazine. So I'd still been very plugged in, maybe more on that kind of like, DIY side of things, but that was that I was still very much aware of what the industry and watching it shift and watching it become more accessible and more democratized and. And really understood that, hey, I'm watching some of these people that I've formed, you know, online relationships with in terms of diy, kind of launch their own interior design businesses. Like, maybe that's something I can do too. So it very much is something that, like, I had watched happen for sure over those years. And even, I mean, even now, the industry is not necessarily known for being incredibly open. But I think over the last six, seven, eight years, I think we've watched people share more. And so, you know, watching people that I knew talk about marking, you know, redlining shop drawings for cabinetry, I was like, oh, hey, I'm pretty detail oriented. That's. That's definitely something that I Can do. And so it was kind of sharing more of the process, which was actually something that, especially when I first got into the business I had, I just didn't understand any, like, the process itself. I didn't understand the order with which things needed to happen in a renovation. And. And so I sought out all of that information I could, in any method I could find it.
- [08:52]
Caroline Burke
Honestly, what was the moment in 2020 when you felt sort of the ground shift underneath you in terms of sort of this energy coming into your business?
- [09:02]
Melissa Oland
The pandemic was, you know, obviously it was awful for so many people. I feel some guilt in saying that it. It was probably the best possible thing that could have ever happened to my business. And I think like that shift, I can almost pinpoint the moment, but it was really like May, June of 2020, where, you know, I. Previous to that, it was sort of like, what do we do? Are we going to be able to be in people's homes? And so I. I had started kind of doing like a weekly Q and A before Q and A was really a thing of like, hey, submit your questions. I was talking to the camera. There are things that I barely do now, but I was talking to the camera and giving advice about mixing metals and like, how do you pick up paint color and how do you style shelves. And I remember like this one, this time period, basically between May and June where I had enough time to be doing Those Q&As every week to all of a sudden I had no time to be able to do those Q and as because my workload exploded.
- [10:03]
Caroline Burke
How were you able to respond to that demand or like, what did that demand look like and what did that require of you?
- [10:11]
Melissa Oland
There a lot of sleepless nights, probably a lot of crying. I please never ask my husband what that, what that version of me was like. I think it was honestly pure survival mode. And I think basically from 2020, that midpoint of 2020 to 2022, when I did first hire someone, I was operating from a place of absolute, like, you know, fire hose of learning, but also just surviving, putting out fires day to day that I couldn't even, you know, get above anything to strategize to get to that point of like, hey, I've prepared for this. But it was also the most exciting, most wonderful, like, you know, it had such a range of emotions for that time period because I really was in the middle of everything and learning everything in real time too.
- [11:04]
Caroline Burke
What was a full plate kind of workload wise or job wise for you in that Period.
- [11:10]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, I think I probably had somewhere between seven to eight, eight projects going. And they were, you know, from a range of sizes, from, you know, furnishing projects to, you know, one room bathroom renovation to kind of whole home renovation projects. It really, there was a huge scope of, of things, for sure.
- [11:35]
Caroline Burke
Yeah. You started hiring in 2022. When did you start to feel settled in the cadence of the business?
- [11:45]
Melissa Oland
Last year?
- [11:46]
Caroline Burke
Okay, no, let's start with 2022 then.
- [11:50]
Melissa Oland
Okay, perfect. I, I would say 2022 was the year that I think I, I, it actually made me a business owner instead of someone who was just kind of being swept away by a wave of hobby, you know, hiring my first employee, which at that point in time was just felt like the biggest possible commitment ever. Kate is the first employee I hired. She is still with me, and she is still like, she is a unicorn of an employee. Like, I, I should never have been honored with her as my first hire because she is the hiring her really made me view the business as a business because suddenly I had payroll I had to make, and I had these, you know, I had to have these projects that previously really, I had viewed my time as kind of is something that I could give away. Suddenly I had to change that mindset because I couldn't give her time away because I was paying for it. I just give you an example. I had one project that I loved, and I still love this project, but it was supposed to be kind of a small project. And I had quoted it that previous to my first hire, I had been working on a flat, working in a flat fee model, and I had been charging people kind of, please no one do this. I had been charging people what I thought, like, I would pay as a consumer. Oh, no, no, exactly that bad idea. So I had this one small project that was really supposed to be kind of a very, very small project. I had charged them, I think, like $9,000 or $10,000 or something as a flat fee. That project ended up going on for three years, like, past the point with which I had multiple employees and was paying multiple employees to work on this project by the hour. So that money was long gone. Like, that was the motivator to say, I have to figure out how to make this business profitable because it currently, like, I can't pay myself. You know, when you went to make
- [13:48]
Caroline Burke
that first hire, you hired Kate. But what or who were you looking for? How were you casting that net? Where did you think you needed the support the most?
- [13:59]
Melissa Oland
So the other thing that I have not Mentioned yet is that we had. We during COVID you know, we had. We were in Minnesota, my husband and I and our daughter. We were in Minnesota and loved Minnesota. Minnesota just was kind of amazing. Felt like home. It was exactly what we needed in our lives. We had, during COVID really realized how alone we were. Like, we don't have family in Minnesota. We have amazing friends, but we didn't have any family in Minnesota. And we felt very, very alone. And sort of did this mental calculation of we only see our parents once or twice a year and they only live X amount of years. It's so morbid to say out loud, but we did. We did that calculation and made the decision, the conscious decision that we were going to move to Colorado to get closer to family. But it did take us three years. Three, gosh. Saying that out loud, it's a long time, Three years to get to that point. In part, we were actually renovating our own home at the same time and did it in phases. And so it took us three years to get to the point where we actually did make that move to Colorado. So. But when I hired Kate in 2022, I knew that that was coming down the pipeline. And so I knew that I needed, you know, someone, a designer in Minneapolis, to help carry on the Minneapolis projects until I could get kind of OHO Colorado up and running. So we, you know, Kate and I had almost a year together to be able to really both work in tandem and form kind of the basis of what oho's processes now look like, but also to really kind of build the business. And, you know, the expectation was that I would move to Colorado, the Minneapolis projects would continue on, but kind of wrap up, and then we would kind of, you know, start up ojo Colorado, and we'll see what happens with Kate's position. Do we need it? Will Minnesota business continue? Like that was the big question mark
- [15:53]
Caroline Burke
at that time, you can safely say. Is that not a question mark anymore?
- [15:58]
Melissa Oland
Safely. Safely, that is not a question mark anymore.
- [16:02]
Caroline Burke
I want to close that loop now and then keep going. But I was like, we should talk about that now. Right?
- [16:05]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, yeah, that definitely, you know, I really did think that the business would move with me to Colorado. And what I underestimated for sure, is that we had built such a beautiful base of business and clientele and referral base in Minnesota that really continued in a way that I could not have predicted in Minnesota. And so, you know, now the business, you know, we have nine employees verging on 10 employees, and all but two of us are based in Minnesota. So the business really, and from a work perspective is probably somewhere on the. You know, somewhere between 50 to 70% of our projects are based in Minnesota, with the rest of them really being nationwide, ironically, not a ton in Colorado. But that's okay. That day will come. That day will come.
- [17:00]
Caroline Burke
What did you initially look for when you were hiring Kate? What experience did you want that person to have?
- [17:10]
Melissa Oland
You know, looking back, I think I didn't know what I needed. And I was really looking for someone who AI connected with, you know, someone that I would want to spend time with every day, but also someone who had a few of the skill sets that I didn't have, including being able to work in cad. That was kind of one of my number one things. And then also someone who had firm experience, because I had none. I probably interviewed 10 people. Kate was immediately. There was a connection point there between her and I. She and I are incredibly similar humans. And so that, like, immediately I knew it was her from the. From the very moment that we met. And it took me a few months to get to the point of feeling comfortable financially to bring her on, but once I did, we have. We have been running ever since.
- [18:01]
Caroline Burke
When you joined forces together, you were building systems and processes together in a lot of ways. Was everything up for debate? You know, like, did you really kind of reinvent what the business looked like when she arrived?
- [18:16]
Melissa Oland
100%, yes.
- [18:17]
Caitlin Peterson
What was that like for you?
- [18:21]
Melissa Oland
It was humbling. I mean, it. It was humbling in a way. Not in a. In a bad way at all. It was. It was very humbling to be able to go to someone. And Kate is, you know, from a. Not that age matters at all, but this was my third career. Right, right. This was Kate's first career out of college. And she just is a. A wise, beyond her years kind of person, but she also just came with a breadth of knowledge that I knew I couldn't get. And I didn't have to be really clear. That first job that I did with furniture, I bought almost everything from retail location, passed along my trade discount like that, that I thought that was how you run a business. And kind of came into the mix and was like, why are we buying things at Pottery Barn? And I was like, I don't know. Tell me why we shouldn't buy things at Pottery Barn. And so there was kind of an immense education that she brought with her that allowed us to build processes that really made a business that made sense. And, of course, all of these things are happening as the business is growing, and we are being able to kind of trial and error things on actual projects together. I can tell you, like, I don't. I don't ever want to be the smartest person in the room. I think at the very beginning portion of my business, there was this element of kind of the fake it till you make it mentality of if I just. If I. If I just, like, kind of can get through this meeting of a contractor asking me for a spec sheet and get to my computer afterwards and Google, what is a spec sheet?
- [19:57]
Caroline Burke
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:58]
Melissa Oland
Like, I can. I can make it and I can figure it out. And I think, you know, working, bringing on Kate and kind of having the experience of being like, oh, gosh, I truly don't even know what I don't know. Like, I knew that, but, like, really, when it comes to furniture, there's a. There's a level of the industry that it really is still kind of shrouded in a cloud of mystery, or it's just very hard to figure out that information until you find someone who's willing to share. And so once I found, you know, once Kate was around, I, like, I couldn't fully acknowledge that I was never the smartest person in the room. But that really kind of emphasized that portion of. Why would I approach this from a perspective of I know everything when, like, the experience of working in tandem to figure it out with someone else can make me so much better and make OHO so much better and stronger? Like, there's no need to put on false hairs for that.
- [20:49]
Caroline Burke
What were some of the most profound shifts for you?
- [20:53]
Melissa Oland
One of them was. Was definitely moving to an hourly billing model. And so that, you know, that obviously is. Has its challenges of kind of finishing out these jobs and finishing them out strong because we were still very much building a portfolio, but then definitely building processes and documenting them was another piece of the puzzle. Because part of this. The impetus of this was that last year I brought on a business partner to oho and she, Grace. She's someone who. She and I have been best friends for a very, very long time. She comes from a Fortune 50 kind of company background. Very much is in the brain of operations. And by 2025, what I had really realized is that I could not. I had big goals for oho, and I could not get us there by myself. And so Grace had always kind of been a. A listening ear for me and a person who was advising me from a business perspective. So when she retired early from her career, I said, do you want to take a pay cut, a pretty significant one, and come, you know, be a business partner with me at oho. And she, after much less tugging than it probably should have taken, she agreed to that. And so when she came into the business, she was kind of had a bird's eye view of all of our processes and being able to look at our operations side from an objective perspective and was like, hey, I know that you have this document and it's been working, but we need to flesh out the standard operating procedures. And so initially that task really did fall on my lap from the perspective of I have the most historical knowledge I have. You know, I know where I want this firm to go, I know what I want it to look like. But what we found out is that as you know, the principal designer and co founder or founder of the firm, I just lack the time to be able to do that. So we have been kind of taking it as a communal effort. We have an operations side of the business that's kind of handling some of the operations SOPs. And then from the design side, I have an associate designer that has been working directly under me for over two years at this point. And so she, you know, outside of anyone other than me, probably has the most intimate knowledge of how I run projects and how I want these projects to look. And so one of the things that has kind of fallen to her plate as we had a, you know, a little bit of a slow lull over the holidays, was really to start kick off the SOPs and get at least kind of the outline of what we do so that we can kind of take that as a team and then fill that in as we go forward.
- [23:36]
Caroline Burke
Can you tell me about how you've organized your team, who you've hired, and how you thought about really creating that structure around you? Who does what and why?
- [23:48]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, so we have, right now we have three separate design teams within oho. So we have three separate senior associate kind of pairings. And then we have also our operations side of the business. Right now I lead one of those design teams and then we have two other ones with a senior designer, associate designer. The goal is to. And the 2026 goal for us is to move me out of kind of the day to day of projects as it currently is, so that I can play more of a principal designer role. Because we have been. I have been playing that role, but it has been challenging from just a time capacity perspective to both be in the day to day and also be kind of the creative director of the firm. So Our goal for 2026 is to pull me out of the day to day so that there can be more of a kind of internal review process that is a lot more fleshed out than it currently is. So that's kind of the design side of the team. And then we have an operation side that Grace heads up that we have our procurement coordinator, and then we have kind of a design assistant slash office admin slash. She does like anything and everything and is so capable kind of role under operations. We would not survive without Haley at this point. She is our newest hire, but we would not survive without her. So that's kind of how we're setup is we do have a pretty definitive kind of design operation side of the business, for sure.
- [25:19]
Caroline Burke
How has your role evolved as your team grows?
- [25:23]
Melissa Oland
I feel like I say this all the time to fellow business owners, but we obviously got into this business because we love design. I never want to be out of design because that fills my cup in such a deep, intimate way. But I will say, as we have hired more people, my time and ability to do those things and do the, you know, be in the weeds of design as much as I would love to be, but also chase the dreams for OHO and further, the business for OHO has become tricky to manage. And so that. That for me kind of hit a max, like a crux for me in 2025 where I just couldn't. I couldn't do it anymore. Like, I couldn't. I was. I was nearing a point of what probably would have looked like burnout. And so I. And I could see that in myself. And so I. I knew that we needed to make some changes and some adjustments. And we're still working on those things. We sort of have. For me, it's kind of a light at the end of the tunnel kind of mentality where we're gonna get there. So I can. I can soldier through and do what we need to to get there. But ultimately the goal is for my role to evolve more to a creative director, but still maybe maintain kind of one or two projects under my wing that I can, you know, really shepherd and be in the day to day so I can get that cup filling without losing that entirely, while also providing the guidance that, you know, the design teams and then the firm overall needs too.
- [26:51]
Caroline Burke
What does it mean to you to be creative director? What are you. What are you gaining in that role and what in some ways are you losing in that role?
- [27:01]
Melissa Oland
OHO has a pretty strong viewpoint, aesthetic viewpoint, and so I have been so incredibly Lucky to have senior designers who have understood that viewpoint and chased that viewpoint without a lot of my direct involvement. But as we scale the firm, I see that being a challenge that we could face for sure is kind of having an alignment overall to make sure that we're not losing the things that kind of really make oh oh. And so from a creative director role, my hope is that I can be that final, you know, funnel before it goes out into the world of saying, you know, yes, this. This does feel like, oh, on everything. Because right now, what we. The setup that we really do have is that we have a final internal review. But then anything that happens kind of post presentation falls out of my purview. And so sometimes we will, you know, there might be a situation where there might have had been a situation in the past where I'll show up for an install or a photo shoot and be like, huh, I don't remember seeing those island lights anywhere. And like, I don't know if that's necessarily what I would have picked. And so the goal is really to make sure that anything that's getting presented to a client really does go through kind of a review process before it gets put out into the world. And that's to say, like, I am. My team does an incredible job. I don't want to take that away from them at all. I am an incredibly picky person.
- [28:38]
Caroline Burke
And that's the job.
- [28:39]
Melissa Oland
That's the job. And with the best intentions. Like, I don't want things to just because we're trying to make a selection that a reselection that's going to, you know, appeal to a client, I don't want us to lose any sort of what makes oh OHO in that process. And so that. That really is the goal with the creative director is to. To make sure that we have. That I have the capacity to have that final vision on oho. But we also want to really make it something that also feels like everyone at OHO has a say in because, you know, the, you know, rising tide lifts all boats that. That we very much live, our firm lives by that internally. And we want everyone to have a viewpoint into these projects and not, you know, just like I would at times show up at an install and be like, wow, you guys did really great work. Like, we want everyone to be excited about everyone else's projects because that is the challenge with having three separate teams is that you can get really insular and not understand what other teams are doing. And then you show up and you're like, wow, this is really outstanding work. Like, I want everyone to feel that every part of the process too.
- [29:46]
Caroline Burke
How do you do that? How do you create that kind of constant feedback loop internally?
- [29:51]
Melissa Oland
Yeah. So we. We have started a weekly. Another weekly meeting. On Thursdays, we have a. We have a weekly project review meeting where, you know, anyone can kind of sign up for within the confines of an hour to say, hey, we have, you know, so and so's first level ready to review. And so they. Then they take and they present to the team for an hour and, you know, get feedback on kind of being able to have an insight into a project that otherwise they just didn't understand the components of. But also seeing, I mean, and I can say from experience, you know, we had one of our design teams present one of the houses that we're working on right now, and they're so deep in the weeds of cabinetry right now. And so they showed us a lot of the cabinetry elevations, and they were so inspiring from a perspective of, like, almost from a leveling up perspective of like, I never would have thought about that detail. Or, like, where did you even see that? Like, or think about that? And so getting into each other's thought process and understanding the inspiration behind things has been so beneficial for everyone, including myself.
- [31:02]
Caitlin Peterson
Hey, designers. I wanted to tell you a little bit more about the benefits of becoming a Boeing Insider. Once you sign up, you get access to a weekly lineup of workshops that dig into the real mechanics of running a design firm. We're talking about everything from how to structure a flat fee to maximize profit to strategies for transforming client conversations so you can close more sales with confidence. You'll learn how to develop a marketing budget that actually moves the needle, create a pipeline of consistent leads, and refine your charging strategies so that your pricing supports the business you want, not the one you're stuck in. If you're ready to tighten your systems, sharpen your strategy, and make smarter decisions across your business, becoming a BoH insider is a powerful place to start. Explore the benefits of becoming a BoH Insider today@businessofhome.com bohinsider.
- [32:03]
Caroline Burke
Can you tell me more about hiring Grace, bringing on a business partner and how that has sort of shifted the way you see your business?
- [32:15]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, she truly. You know, as I said, I have incredibly big dreams and high hopes for Oho knowing that I only. There's only 24 hours in a day,
- [32:28]
Caroline Burke
I'm told, and we're supposed to sleep for, like, eight of them.
- [32:31]
Melissa Oland
We're supposed to sleep and we're Supposed to, you know, not work for the other, however, 16 hours a day. Yeah, I, I really, you know, kind of saying that in 2025, I. I hit a crux that I hit. I knew I had reached the max of what I could handle as one human. And I knew that I needed some help, both from an operations perspective, but also from the perspective of chasing things like partnerships and, you know, a retail arm of the business. We had, you know, kind of tried our. Tried our hand at, you know, like a holiday market over the course of a couple years and, and it. It went splendidly. It could have been better if someone had had more time to really invest in marketing and being more thoughtful about, you know, kind of how it was, how it went out into the world versus kind of my mode of operating, which would be at the current time, what needs to be done right in this moment, and then I'll think about the next later. And so bringing on Grace really was in efforts to further the business in that way. I also, because she and I are best friends, implicitly trust her. And so it was very, very easy to hand over the financials of the business and all of the, you know, the dirty back. Dirty back end. I don't know why I call it dirty, but the. The back end of the business that I. I haven't had time to even think about from like, you know, I. The p L of the business. I. At any given point, I could not have told you how much money was in the bank versus what was committed for projects versus I was just assuming it was working, which is, so to say that out loud is so dangerous. Knock on all the wood. Everything worked out. But it was easy to hand over the reins to her because she. I just trusted her implicitly because of our past friendship. Now, we did have obviously a lot of conversations because partnerships with friends can be tricky, and I've seen it in my own life. Partnerships go really sour. But we were very, very clear about what our different strengths were in the business and what our different roles were in this business and also what our goals are for our own lives in terms of how much time we even have to dedicate to something like this. And so we, you know, we made. We were very planful, went through our attorney, made everything official. Everything is documented in a partnership agreement. And so bringing her on really did allow us to have time and energy and strategy really to chase the things that we want to chase for oho
- [35:08]
Caroline Burke
what were some of the things that you were most eager to put in her hands?
- [35:15]
Melissa Oland
Oh, the Financials, for sure.
- [35:17]
Caroline Burke
Yes.
- [35:17]
Melissa Oland
Okay. But outside of that, I, I would say, like chasing partnerships is. Is something that I have a lot of passion for, I see a lot of potential for. We had had kind of partnerships that were arriving at our doorstep already. And in fact, you'll, you'll get to see one kind of later this summer with a fabric brand that we're going to partner with to really, you know, envelop a space of ours with all of their fabric and, you know, textiles and wallpapers and, and things and furniture pieces that really will allow us to have kind of a moment with this company to present to the world. They're using us as kind of a brand ambassador for this specific collection. And so those things were kind of already happening and I didn't have time to. To invest in it. Both in the. Just the actual kind of contract negotiations, even those initial conversations, I was finding it hard to find time on my calendar to really fit in those intro conversations with brands. And so we now like she is. That is her role, is that she really is chasing those things. And we have a few partnerships that are kind of in the works that I wish I could talk about and hopefully will soon, but those are, you know, those allow us to kind of further the hope of having oho's product or product by OHO out into the world for people to bring into their homes.
- [36:47]
Caroline Burke
Do you mean trade focused or do you imagine more of a retail focused presence when you think about the future?
- [36:55]
Melissa Oland
Both, honestly, I think, because I come from a background of loving design, but I never had, until I was a designer, never had access to the trade, trade things. In fact, I remember distinctly there was a. There was wallpaper that I wanted when I was still on the consumer side of things that I did. I didn't have access to that. The only way for me to have access was to go to a tra, like a trade showroom. And they didn't let me have samples or anything. And I remember feeling really defeated by that. That is something that has stayed with me and has made me want to put things out into the world that anyone can have access to. Also things that, you know, trade only can have access to that that will be coming as well. But especially in a way of being able to put OHO out into the world that your average consumer can also then take and put into their homes has been something that has been crucially important to me as you reevaluate your
- [37:53]
Caroline Burke
role in the business. Who talks to clients, who's vetting clients, who's saying yes to new work. How do you think about the client experience piece amid firm growth?
- [38:09]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, that is something that I have had eyes on for since the beginning, you know, so just to give you a practical and logistical explanation. So I am still the person that takes all of our inquiry calls. I am actually still the person. I don't know if I should say this out loud because it's supposed to look like it's not me, but I am still the person who replies to even all of the inquiry. Inquiry emails.
- [38:35]
Caroline Burke
So, okay, you hit submit on the website form and they get you.
- [38:39]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, they do. They, they. It's supposed to say, you know, T mo, but it's 90% of the time it's me, unless I'm traveling. So, yes, I, I'm still the person who does that. That intake. And, and part of that is very intentional and very purposeful. I. We are in the process of, of building our own home in Colorado, very early process, still in the architectural phase. And I reached out to some dream architects that I have loved for forever. And one of them, only one firm, really allowed us to have kind of immediate access to one of the architects. And the way that we were sort of carried through that process by that architect, who is someone I have admired for, honestly, decades, was very impactful for me in knowing that that's how I want our clients to feel. I don't want them to feel like there's a gatekeeper and they have to get through that gatekeeper to talk to me or anyone else at oho. And so I am still that person who takes those inquiry calls and does that initial vetting. I also do think that, and this is, I say this with incredible humility, but I've understood about myself that I have the ability to really build trust quickly with people and allow them to kind of feel comfortable with making a very massive investment just after a phone call. And that is something I do not take lightly. And I, I. We work very hard on our social media to make sure that people, you know, kind of, we're building that trust as we go. But I want that first call to be with me to help build that trust and help build that, you know, like, earn that trust with them really quickly. So from there, once they kind of do. I also, like, do all of the contract work, all of the retainer work in tandem, obviously, with kind of our back end of the office of getting them set up logistically within studio designer. But then I send them the contract and do, you know, facilitate a handoff to their design team if I'm not leading their design so that I don't truthfully see that ever changing, because that is a part of our business that is working very, very well for us at the moment. But keeping that same, you know, across three design teams, keeping the same level of client experience is something that we talk about so much internally. And why processes are so important for us. Because through trial and error, we have had a designer who kind of took their own route on processes, and those projects really did not flourish in. In a way that felt akin to what OHO stands for.
- [41:23]
Caroline Burke
Yeah.
- [41:23]
Melissa Oland
And so, you know, we had to make an immediate pivot and kind of bring back those things very, very quickly to make sure that those clients felt taken care of. So that. That is something that we have eyes on for sure, is this client experience and making sure it feels consistent and at a high level. And that also we're not, you know, as things kind of change hands within the firm from design team to procurement and back again, that no balls are kind of getting dropped in that process. We are very, very into the weeds on that, for sure.
- [41:54]
Caroline Burke
You're handing off, in a lot of cases, the client to a design team, and then the design team is handing them off to procurement. Is that right?
- [42:03]
Melissa Oland
I will say the design team kind of. We keep procurement separated in that, like, procurement will send the designers trackers and, you know, all of the send them proposals, but all of those things get handed to the clients by the designer, with exception of our time billing. Time billing is the only thing that kind of gets a. Gets handed to them from the procurement end of things.
- [42:27]
Caroline Burke
How do you talk to a client about that handoff? How do you get a client excited about being handed off to someone who's not you?
- [42:37]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, that's the ultimate question. It is. It. It really is. And it is something that, as we were figuring that out, we definitely struggled, you know, lost our footing a little bit and struggled. So in that first inquiry call, I pretty much know, based on location and project, like which. And capacity, kind of internally, I have eyes on kind of where everyone's at at all times. Just, I know usually walking into that call, who, if they signed on, who their. Their designer would be. So if it is me, I will tell them in that call. If it is not me, I will make sure that they understand that their senior designer will be xyz and here's my role on the project. Like, nothing will go out without kind of my eyes on it. And, you know, make sure that they understand that while I will still be, they'll see me for big moments, they'll probably see me for install, they might see me for their presentation. I'll probably pop on site a few times. But I'm not going to be their day to day person. And in fact, they don't want me as their day to day person because they want timely, you know, responses to emails. But I make it very, very clear in that initial email. And so by the time I am handing them off in a kickoff email, it very much is like my role at this point kind of fades to the background. I'm still around if you have any questions. And I will say, like, I, you know, I've found that clients whose projects I'm not leading still feel very comfortable that if there is an issue for some reason, which is pretty rare, but if there is an issue that they can reach out to me to say like, hey, just want to, you know, let you know that this happened or, you know, let you know, I haven't heard from so and so in a little bit. Can you kind of poke them? But that's very, very rare. They're very well taken care of by our senior designers.
- [44:22]
Caroline Burke
You mentioned, you know, building trust on that early phone call and getting people comfortable, you know, making a very large investment in their home with the firm, with your team. How are you talking to clients about money? What is the secret or the strategy there?
- [44:39]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, I feel like we are always talking about money and it's something that we really broach early. I do think that there is something to my past work in finance. I worked for a hedge fund. So we were dealing with high net worth individuals and high net worth kind of the applications all the time. So money to me is less of an emotional conversation. Now talk to me about that in a few months when I.
- [45:08]
Caroline Burke
When you're doing your own house.
- [45:09]
Melissa Oland
When I'm doing my own house. Exactly, exactly. But I feel like that that's the approach that we internally kind of take to these conversations is like, this is not, you know, while we often are the person who delivers the news of like, hey, yeah, that, that light fixture that you absolutely loved is actually $12,000 instead of being, you know, $11,000 like it was yesterday because they had a price increase. Like those are, those are things that we can't control. And so there's no real point in us coming from an emotional place about it. And I find that whenever we feel like we're getting too into the weeds of feeling too invested in the, you know, emotional bandwidth of someone's Financial capacity like that, that's when we kind of need to take a step back. And so I try to stay really attuned to that for the team. We. But internally, like, we have a really good handle of being, you know, money. This is. This is not an emotional thing. If a client comes to us and says, that just doesn't work for me financially, that's fine. We'll find a different solution like that. You know, that's not the end of the world for us. And so I think making clients know that. That, like, they can come to us and say, hey, I'm not comfortable with that $7,000. Like, can we find a reselection? Like, those are okay conversations to have and also not conversations that are going to hurt our feelings.
- [46:27]
Caroline Burke
What do you mean when you say sometimes you get too in the weeds on someone's sort of financial or emotional bandwidth?
- [46:34]
Melissa Oland
So it's a good question and feels very applicable for the moment. You know, building a house and renovating a house and furnishing a house for that matter, like, we are in someone's hopes and dreams, like, in such a deep and intimate way that is really hard to understand until you go through the process. But it is really being in the weeds of where they're gonna live, where they're raising their family, where they are having that glass of wine at the end of the day. And so it is emotional for them. And we understand that finances can be very. A very tricky landscape for a lot of people, especially with rising costs and especially when your hopes and dreams for something might be more expensive than what you want to spend. But sometimes the financial reality of where they need to be to not, you know, to not feel in a painful place financially, which is we don't want people to feel that at all. Sometimes that's a tricky landscape to traverse because you want those things for them. But, like, we obviously, as a firm can't give them those things as much as we want to, you know, with meaning. We can't take on the financial burden of giving them those things. And so I think sometimes it can feel like a tricky thing, especially if there is a project where maybe the build costs weren't fully fleshed out on the front end by a builder who didn't fully understand the scope. And then you get to the midpoint where, okay, all of these costs are becoming a reality, and the client sees the final bill and is like, oh, my gosh, we have to scale back. And you want to, like, say, I don't want you to scale back. You Know, you want, you want to kind of give them everything. So it's, I think it, it depends on the clients and certainly the project. But I have found even myself, you know, at this point feeling sometimes like, gosh, I just wish I could pay for that for you so that you could have it. But that is not the right business decision to make. So. Yeah.
- [48:39]
Caroline Burke
How do you talk to clients about what working with your team will cost and about the costs associated with the firm's output?
- [48:46]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, that's a great question. And that was something that I had to become very comfortable with because it was not something I clearly coming from a flat fee model where I was like, what would I pay into being a firm that's charging six figures, you know, for design fees like that. That was a, that's a massive shift and something I had to really get comfortable with. The value add that we have. And I think once I saw the value add, and truly for, for me this really came when seeing projects come to their fruition and seeing kind of the life changing qualities of having a home that really does care for you. The way that we really focus on making sure our designs do that was really when I could finally buy in on what the value is that OHO provided. And it became so much easier to talk about the financials of the design fee portion with clients. And so, you know, for me, like we, we give clients a percentage based on their project at that first inquiry call. So, you know, if someone is doing a renovation, you know, typically our design fees, and of course this just depends on the size of the project. If we're talking a $500,000 project versus a $2 million renovation project, obviously those financials get skewed a little bit. But generally we're somewhere between 10 to 20% of construction costs on our design fees and then new construction, just because those tend to be larger multimillion dollar projects. Those are. That percentage skews to 3 to 8% typically. And so we're keeping track of that internally, making sure that we are landing within those ranges. Most of the time we come in pretty south of that top end, just depending on the size of the project. But we are keeping eyes on that internally so that we can then also communicate to the clients like, hey, we're about 50% of the way through the project. From a design fee perspective, here's what you can expect going forward. And some clients really want that, some really don't. But we try to kind of offer them that insight so that they have an awareness of where their Design fees are hitting. But on that front end in the inquiry call, like, if someone were to come to me and say, we're doing a $1 million renovation, I would never say to them, okay, your design fees are going to be somewhere between 100 to $200,000. Because those numbers feel really scary in that moment. I tell them the percentage, and I let them do the math, and then I re emphasize the percentage. And, you know, that has been a good method for us in terms of allowing clients to kind of do the math themselves and judge where they feel comfortable. And I'm sure they. I'm sure most of them walk into it and are like, we'll be on the 10% side. We make decisions very quickly. And, you know, which does. Doesn't always happen, but sometimes it does, so it's worked out well for us.
- [51:33]
Caroline Burke
How far do those conversations go before you're really explaining, and here's how we work and here's how we bill, and here's where you'll see us. Like, is that in that first phone call or how far are you going before you're really explaining that. That piece to the client as well?
- [51:48]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, typically that is in that first phone call. I try to give a pretty good overview of what our process is. I'm assuming that at that point they're, you know, for the most part, they're probably meeting with other designers. And so we also then have a kind of a PDF document that lays out our process, lays out percentages, lays out kind of the. Basically the phases of. Of the OHO process so that they have something to take away when they're like, I met with three designers today, and I can't rem which one does which. We kind of have that PDF takeaway, as we call our investment guide, but I'm pretty into the weeds of talking to them about the process very early on, just because we are so process driven. And I want people to know that we are incredibly process driven, and so we start talking about that early.
- [52:39]
Caroline Burke
When you look back at these seven years, what has tested you the most as an entrepreneur?
- [52:48]
Melissa Oland
Oh, my gosh. This is probably a bad day to ask me this question. I think the development of employees is something that has been incredibly challenging for me personally, because I'm not naturally gifted at that, nor am I incredibly great at giving criticism, but, you know, unless you're my husband. But I, I feel like that's one of those things that has really challenged me in a. In. In my own development to, you know, the, like, be able to be Constructive and provide feedback that is going to help someone grow, but not do it in a way that is hypercritical. The, the way that it's probably happening in my head.
- [53:42]
Caitlin Peterson
Does distance make that more challenging?
- [53:44]
Caroline Burke
Because I know you're separated sort of physically from so much of your team.
- [53:49]
Melissa Oland
Yeah, honestly, yes, it does. Because sometimes by the, you want to have these in person conversations and by the time you get to have in person conversations, the bomb has been diffused. And I think in some ways that is actually probably a really good thing because it doesn't allow me to kind of have a first emotional response. But I also, you know, have an. Like most designers or probably like most millennial women of a. Of a certain age. I like my people pleasing tendencies are pretty strong. And so I have found that I've had to push past my desire to be nice to actually like help someone grow and develop and give them constructive feedback that might hurt their feelings in the moment, but will make them a better designer or you know, better, better employee for OHO going forward. Like those are. That's probably been the most and still something that seven years in, I, I am. I like have to sweat and deep breathe before I have these conversations because they just don't come naturally to me.
- [54:57]
Caroline Burke
What is, where are you looking to for advice when you're, when you're kind of. Of thinking about doing something like that?
- [55:05]
Melissa Oland
I feel like I read, I read a lot of development books, read a lot of Brene Brown. Yeah. But I read a lot of business books as well. And I think because of that and probably because of my, you know, my online shopping habits, it feeds into my Instagram reels that I watch at 2am sometimes.
- [55:24]
Caroline Burke
Yeah.
- [55:25]
Melissa Oland
And so I get a lot of kind of like I have a saved folder on my Instagram that's called Be a good boss. And so sometimes if I need this like, you know, know, basically a pep talk from anyone else, I, I'll go into that saved folder and kind of look through these reels to just remind myself that like this is like, this is a business and we, we. I have to protect the payroll and these people that I'm beholden to financially. I also have to protect our clients and I really deeply have to also then protect, you know, I, I say protect myself, but also like protect my own mental health. And so that I think that's been, yeah. The biggest challenge to date.
- [56:07]
Caroline Burke
So much of what we talk about on this show, and you and I talked about this earlier, is about how your role as a principal evolves as your team grows, what are you most excited about? When you think about kind of the next phase of your business or the work that you're going to be doing
- [56:22]
Melissa Oland
next, I think if we can get to the place where I truly am playing a creative. I am cosplaying. No, I am actually the creative director of this firm.
- [56:35]
Caroline Burke
I like that shift, by the way. That was perfect.
- [56:38]
Melissa Oland
That was, that was my imposter syndrome that showed up right there. I had to, I had to tell her no. But if I get, if we can get to that point, like, I do see the teams being able to flourish in their own ways under that and also be able to like see the chasing of dreams that I think is so, you know, I feel like I've sold everyone who's an employee at OHO on these dreams that we're chasing and to get to see some of them come to fruition, to get to see more of that, I do think that that will be a really beautiful culture boost for our firm just to be a part of something that is much bigger than any of us. But I do, I want to see that shift happen, honestly, in a lot of ways, selfishly, for my own life, because I. Any sense of work, life balance, which is kind of a facade anyway, but any sense of any balance in my life is really non existent at this point. And I do see that being a better way to operate that doesn't feed into my workaholic tendencies and allows me a little bit more breathing room. Yeah.
- [57:49]
Caroline Burke
Is there any pang of regret or sense of loss around maybe moving out of the day to day?
- [57:56]
Melissa Oland
I think that there is this level of feeling like we have and I have felt this over the years as our team has grown and we've had different teams kind of take on different projects of feeling this level of like, gosh, that's a really good project. I wish I like were able to be on site every week for that or I wish I were able to be more in the weeds of that. But I think this, this shift to creative director really is going to allow me the capacity to show up for those site visits, those occasional site visits, and feel like I can actually enjoy it instead of feeling like I should be elsewhere in this moment. So I don't. You know, while I think that there is a little bit of this longing for being able to like have a direct hand in every one of our projects because they're so spectacular, I also think that there, there is this level of where we're headed will allow more sort of a Feeling of investment in there.
- [59:02]
Caitlin Peterson
What does success look like for you today?
- [59:06]
Melissa Oland
I listen to so many people and their responses to this and I feel like I see myself in so many of them that say that that goal post is always moving. And if you would have asked me two weeks ago what success looked like, it would be a different answer. I think today what it looks like is, is time. And that, that truly is the thing that I lack in my life. And so I, I couldn't. If we are defining success by that, I would, I would tell you I am not successful. But I do think that there is this. In fact, I don't know how familiar you are with the Disney movie Tangled.
- [59:42]
Caroline Burke
Oh yeah, that's a good one.
- [59:44]
Melissa Oland
It's a beautiful one. But there's this moment when they're on the, you know, she's longed to see these balloons or these like, you know, floating orb things that she's seen.
- [59:53]
Caroline Burke
The light things, right?
- [59:54]
Melissa Oland
Yes, yeah. That she's seen in the sky. And she has this moment that like after she sees them and has this beautiful, like I've reached this goal that I've worked towards for forever. This moment of like, well, what's next? And almost there's this like level of loss there of like I have longed for this and it's here and now I have to figure out something else. I feel like that's success for me. If I, if I were to take a day to day kind of viewpoint on it is that I'm constantly evolving what that looks like and what that, what that is, that definition for me is. And I think that there's the big goals, the like five to ten year goals and then there's the like get through the day kind of goals. But I think success for me truly now and forever does. It does look like time. It looks like time to, you know, be at my daughter's choir recital at school and her tennis, you know, her tennis sets and the things that like I feel really stretched for time wise or to be a good friend. Like, like so many of my measures of successes are just allowing me to have kind of a level of personal achievement as well. But for OHO overall, like there's so many bigger measures of success of like having our own sofa line and having a very successful retail arm of the business and those kind of things. So I don't know how to answer that question other than to say it's constantly evolving.
- [61:31]
Caitlin Peterson
That's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, check out new products or browse job openings. Head on over to businessofhome.com and if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. If you have a note for the show or a story of your own to share, I'd love to hear hear from you and you can email me @trade tales businessofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Caitlin Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson.
- [62:08]
Caroline Burke
Thanks again for listening and I'll see
- [62:10]
Caitlin Peterson
you back here next week.