← Trade Tales
Trade Tales
Why Beth Dotolo and Carolina Gentry get real about the design process on social media
01:01:30
Beth Dotolo and Carolina Gentry on how they make sure the chemistry is right with prospective clients, why video plays a major role in their intake process, and how they use social media to foster both new and old clientele.
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- [00:03]
Beth Detolo
You'll never arrive. Every time you reach a milestone, you want to reach another milestone. You still have the same difficulties and challenges you learned from them. Then new challenges pop up.
- [00:17]
Caitlin Peterson
Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Trade Tales. We're back for season seven of the show, where I'll be talking to interior designers about the challenges, pivots and perspective shifts that come with growing a design design firm. My hope is that you hear your own why echoed in these stories, or an idea or way of doing business that sparks your own breakthrough. I hope it helps you realize that even when times are tough and entrepreneurship feels lonely, you're not alone. My guests today are two designers who bonded over similar aesthetics despite their vastly different working styles. They explain what it takes to operate a firm with employees in offices across the country and how they've leveled up their approach to team development over the years. I can't wait to share it with you, but first, a quick word from our sponsors. This podcast is brought to you by Mitchell Gold and Bob Williams, now a proud member of the Suria Inc. Family of brands beloved for its heirloom quality American made upholstery. With extensive customization, Mitchell Gold and Bob Williams will be debuting a range of fresh new frames and fabrics at the upcoming High Point market. Don't miss out on one of the best designer resources in the business. Visit MGBW.com today to open a trade account. This podcast is also sponsored by the Shade Store. The Shade Store offers designers everywhere a simplified resource for handcrafted custom window treatments with a team of dedicated design consultants available to guide you through the material and selection process. A vast network of measure and install professionals to ensure the perfect fit in over 150 showrooms nationwide. The Shade Store offers the bespoke customization of a high end workroom backed by the support of a national organization. Let the Shade Store take care of the window treatments for you. Sign up for a trade account today@theshadestore.com™.
- [02:32]
Carolina Gentry
I grew up in Laredo, Texas. One of the reasons that I was so attracted to interior design in general was my parents were always renovating our house. I never lived in a house that was ever finished or didn't have a renovation happening at one point in time. And so when I got older and decided to go to school, I decided that interior design would be like a great career for me. And that's what I did. I went to school in Fort Worth. I went to tcu. From there I started my career in Hospitality. And I worked for a very well known firm. So I got an opportunity to work on a wide variety of different types of projects. And I did that for 10 years. And then I just wanted to change. Like, I just wanted to expand my design knowledge and understand how a different type of design operated or worked.
- [03:19]
Caitlin Peterson
That's Carolina Gentry. Her desire to switch things up led to a new job at a design firm specializing in multifamily work. That's where she met a designer whose career journey was just beginning.
- [03:31]
Beth Detolo
She was a senior designer, and I started as an intern and then eventually got hired. For the several years that I worked there, I quickly worked my way up to being senior designer as well. Carolina and I had just built such a good work relationship and friendship throughout that time. We worked together, we were friends. We ended up living in the same loft building. Our doors were right across the hall from each other.
- [03:52]
Caitlin Peterson
And that's Beth Detolo, whose origin story.
- [03:54]
Beth Detolo
Had a different shape opposite of Carolina, where she grew up in a house that was like, you know, they were renovating and doing all this stuff. I was the child of divorce, and my parents split when I was like, six months old. I was born in Philadelphia and my mom moved to Texas. And so I grew up spending half the year with my mom and half the year with my dad. I started to realize that, like, creating a sense of home, wherever you are, was really important. And so I started working for a retailer who had, like, home goods. And I think I was like 17 years old, and I styled everything so well that they made me their regional display specialist. And so I would go around teaching everyone how to set up their windows and to set up their store displays. And so I realized I kind of just wanted to do it on a much larger scale.
- [04:36]
Caitlin Peterson
Beth soon earned her design degree, eventually taking on the internship that would land her in Carolina, the same firm. There, the two began to set their sights on something bigger.
- [04:47]
Beth Detolo
You know, when you're working for another firm, sometimes you just get a little frustrated. And so we were at this horrendous install where we felt like we were really picking up the slack for everyone else and weren't being treated very well. And we were just like, at the stoplight. And I looked at her and I was like, we can do this ourselves. Like, what are we doing?
- [05:06]
Caitlin Peterson
In 2007, the pair officially formed Pulp Studios with a focus on the residential market. I wanted to talk to them about how they make sure the chemistry is right with prospective clients, why video plays a major role in their intake process, and how they use social media to foster both new and old clientele. What does it look like to sort of ease into entrepreneurship for the two of you?
- [05:31]
Beth Detolo
Well, I think the first thing is that you have to make sure you don't have a conflict of interest. I mean, I think that would have been unethical. Carolina and I were working for a commercial and hospitality firm at the time. And so we were taking on clients that our firm wouldn't have taken on. And then really, I mean, it's just crazy, I feel like how much we've built our business because, you know, Carolina and I are not blessed to come from, you know, wealthy families, I would say. So we did not have a network of super wealthy clients built in or anything like that. We really had to kind of like do guerrilla style marketing, you know, like we had to do like this is when Instagram was first popping up. And so we were like, you know, got our feet wet in Instagram and in blogging and in digital marketing and really had to try to find client, hotel and try to find our voice so that people understood who we were. You know, when we first started taking on clients, you know, somebody would be like, I want you to do my whole house and my budget's like $5,000. And we were like, what? But we were also kind of like, okay, well like, I mean, I guess we'll show you what you can get done for that, you know, so it was a wild ride. And I still can't even believe that we both did it. We both took the jump. But you know, we eventually did because we got so busy, you know, on the nights and weekends. I mean, I jumped first and started doing the business full time first. And then we just got so bus busy and Carolina had gone back to the hospitality firm and I was like, carolina, like you gotta go. We, I, I need your help. We're too busy. And she was like working herself to death too because she was working a full time job plus helping me on nights a weekend. So it was just like we just both have to do this full time, you know. And so we did. And it's great because we've still never not paid ourselves. We've always invested in the business first. You know, part of that too is bringing on a business strategist and knowing what we didn't know. And you know, but we try to run our business like business people because you, this is our livelihood. You know, we have to, I think.
- [07:25]
Carolina Gentry
About it all the time, how we literally started with $200 each and we have, we have not taken investors, loans from anyone to like never been in debt. I mean, so I'm so grateful actually, knock on wood. But you know, it's, it really has been, I think that we've been really, really smart about the decisions that we've made. I mean, we started out of Beth's dining room, you know, then I did my loft dining room. Then we, you know, shared a studio with a jewelry maker, our friend Sha Frank. And then, you know, now we have our own building that we bought. I mean, it's just, you know, slow, slowly, like you said, but you know, gradually it's, it's happened.
- [08:09]
Beth Detolo
Yeah. And I mean, I think that is also sort of, you know, a lesson too for people who are just starting out. Like a lot of people are ask, they always ask us like, how do you, how do you get clients? How did you, how did you get where you are today? And I'm like 18 years later, you know, like we're, we're all like, we're not still figuring it out, but we're still sometimes figuring it out. You know, I mean, it's taken a really long time and a big investment in me and Carolina's time. You know, our income, we've never not paid ourselves, but there were times where, you know, when we first started, we didn't pay ourselves. We didn't pay ourselves. Like, you know, it was like, I think our salary was like under 30,000 for years, you know, so it has taken a long time for us to get where we are today.
- [08:48]
Caitlin Peterson
When was it sort of in the timeline, like what year was it that you were both finally like full time in the business?
- [08:54]
Beth Detolo
It was 2011. Because then I, because then I moved to Seattle in 2012.
- [09:00]
Carolina Gentry
Beth started in December, it was December of 2010. And then I started in May of 2011, so it wasn't that long. And then, yeah, she decided to move to Seattle, which is, which is great. I mean, it ended up being such a wonderful thing. I know it was hard for her to tell me, but I, I had worked with offices all over the place, so I didn't think anything of it. I knew that we could do it. It was a two hour time difference and we would figure it out. And that's the one thing that both of us are really good about is we'll think about how to come up with a solution to problem solve a situation. Right.
- [09:36]
Caitlin Peterson
So I don't think I realized it was that early in your partnership.
- [09:41]
Beth Detolo
I think I forget that a lot too. Yeah, I mean it's, I'VE been here for three, 13 years now.
- [09:49]
Caitlin Peterson
Did you have a lot of systems and processes sort of baked in and solidified already before you sort of geographically split?
- [09:56]
Beth Detolo
We did. And I think too, coming from working more in the commercial sector, you know, you had to have processes and procedures because you're working with businesses, not people. And so I think we were able to take a lot of those standards over to the residential world, which I think has served us really well, because, you know, especially when, in the beginning, when you're somebody that nobody really trusts, I guess, you know, like, we're trying to build trust with, with these clients, you know, and, and even now, even to, even today, you know, you don't really get to see the final result of an, of partnering with an interior designer until months or years down the road. And so the only way that you can show your professionalism is by having processes, standards being professional, communication, you know, all this being organized. And so that really how you showcase, you know, outside of just the general talent of what you can select and, you know, what you can do from a design perspective, I mean, showcasing your professionalism, I think is one of the first steps to, you know, having your clients respect you. And so, yeah, I think that's. I think that has served us really well because we really do have our, our stuff together. I. I think, you know, it's interesting sometimes.
- [11:09]
Carolina Gentry
I just went to a dinner last night with a bunch of designers, and we were all talking about how, you know, when we interview people, sometimes they come from, like, really fancy designers that are, like, super established, like, have a bunch of books and all that kind of stuff. And then you find out what their process and procedures are on how they operate. And it's like, I use a notepad and a pencil to, like, write stuff.
- [11:28]
Beth Detolo
And it's like, to, like, write. To write purchase orders.
- [11:32]
Caitlin Peterson
That makes me so nervous.
- [11:34]
Carolina Gentry
Yeah. Or like, or like, this is how I keep my, my notes, like, in this notebook. And there's no, like, folder system. And you're like, but wait, what? Like, I don't. How does that happen? But, I mean, everyone has their own way of doing things, which I totally respect. But I have to say we pat ourselves on the back in the sense that I feel like we're pretty, pretty organized.
- [11:56]
Caitlin Peterson
What were the early kind of structures and systems you put into place? What were you able to bring from that hospitality, multifamily experience and say, you know, this is the foundation for our business together.
- [12:11]
Beth Detolo
So we, you know, we went digitally pretty early for our world, and then we also brought some of our drawing standards. You know, like the way we would do ID sets. We, you know, we sort of, you know, I was actually head of the standards committee at the firm that we were at. And so I was able to take a lot of that and sort of modify it to what, you know, worked for us. So we had like ID set and drawing standards. We had filings, sharing and file system standards. We just had general rules about how sooner of client needed to be responded to. So there was a lot. There was like a lot of easy, you know, and of course, like interior design standards. I mean, most of those you learn in school. But, you know, we were able to bring a lot of that even, like the way we did. We started using Studio really early on, so that we had, you know, Studio webware, so that we were able to sort of streamline the accounting and the ordering and the time billing system. So, you know, I think we were pretty locked in very early on, which has allowed us to sort of grow our team in a way that allowed me to move to Seattle and then later on have other employees move to Los Angeles or Portland or Nashville or Lubbock. So we have employees that are like, kind of sprinkled about what did the.
- [13:28]
Caitlin Peterson
Seattle move change, about the vision or the strategy you had for your business? What were sort of the before the move goals and after the move goals? What did that change?
- [13:41]
Beth Detolo
I mean, I think our goals have always been the same, and I think that, you know, we've always wanted to have licensed collections. We've always wanted to be more of a brand, you know, and not, you know, just Beth and Carolina designing. So that's always. That's always been the case. And I think that, you know, and of course, at our core, we're interior designers. So we always wanted to get. Continue to grow our business and get better projects and get clients that trust us and. And all that can get published as interior design. So those are. Those have always been our goals. And me moving to Seattle, I don't think that it put a damper in that at all. In fact, I think it just really broadened our market, you know, in Dallas. Dallas is tough because to be a designer in Dallas, you know, designers are a dime a dozen. In Dallas, it's really.
- [14:25]
Carolina Gentry
Yeah, there's one in every corner.
- [14:27]
Beth Detolo
Yeah, it's hard to set yourself apart in Dallas, which I still think we have, which is great. But when I moved to Seattle, we brought something to the Seattle market that I don't think existed before. You know, the design Was very gray. It was very neutral. It was not dynamic, colorful, exciting. And I really think, you know, not to pat ourselves on the back, but I think we were part of leading the charge in changing that here in Seattle. So I think that really helped us because we were able to basically double our. Double our market. Of course, it came with some. Some issues. Like, you know, it is hard to run a business when the two owners are not in the same city. We figured it out. But, you know, I think. I think eventually, you know, it paved the way having all these different styles of projects in these different markets to making our business a little bit more national and also making our business a little bit more, I guess, desirable for partners that want to work with us. And so I feel like we've had a lot of opportunities because we do have a dual market studio or now more than dual. But, you know, I think it's been. It's been really good for our business. And I say. I say this all the time, but I think it's actually saved our business because I think if Caroline and I were still sitting from each other in my dining room, we probably would have killed each other, so.
- [15:45]
Caitlin Peterson
Well, tell me a little bit about your partnership. I think partnerships are fascinating to me because you become partners at different stages of your life. You grow, you change, you want different things, you need different things from the business. What did you see in each other at the beginning, and what do you see in each other now that makes your partnership work?
- [16:07]
Beth Detolo
Well, I think we had a similar goal for an aesthetic at the time. Carolina. I met Carolina was a little, obviously more seasoned than I was because I started, you know, as a baby designer at the firm she was working at. And I think she might have even said that, like, all my design looked like a nightclub at one time. But I'm not going to hold that against her. I can't remember.
- [16:24]
Carolina Gentry
I never said that. She says that all the time, but I really didn't ever say that. But she did love magenta. Magenta on long things.
- [16:32]
Beth Detolo
But whatever. But then I think the biggest thing was just our brutal honesty with one another. I think that we have always been very straightforward. We've always been very open and honest. There's no sugarcoating anything. And I think that that makes for a really easy partnership because you have to be able to say what you mean, mean what you say, and then you have to be able to hear it.
- [16:57]
Carolina Gentry
I also feel that we. We worked together first, so we knew we could work together. It's not like we were like high school friends.
- [17:05]
Beth Detolo
And then. Yeah, yeah.
- [17:07]
Carolina Gentry
And then decided like, oh, my gosh, we love each other so much, we should, like, like, have a business together. No, it was like, we know we could work together. This is our job. We could. We do this well together. Oh, you know what? We can actually do this on our own.
- [17:19]
Beth Detolo
Yeah. And that's not to say that it's been, like, a smooth ride. I mean, we've definitely. It's like a marriage, you know, I mean, I think it's been a good marriage, but it's like, totally. I mean, like, we have. There's been seasons in our lives where, you know, it's been harder for one of us personally or, you know, and maybe that maybe, you know, we were. I wasn't taking feedback as. As well as I normally would because I was dealing with a sick parent or, you know, like, you know, there's always. There's stuff always happens. But I think we've always. I think that's the beauty of it, is that we've always given each other a little bit of grace or understanding, even when it was. Even when it's not perfect. You know, I mean, it's. It's. No, it's good. But it has challenges. You know, there's like, we all. We usually see eye to eye on the big stuff. It's like the stupid little stuff that we're like, wait, you want to go there? No, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, it's the stupid. It's the stupid stuff that we're. That we get caught up on, but, you know, we're. But we always figure it out pretty. Pretty quickly.
- [18:17]
Caitlin Peterson
How do you divide and conquer? What are. What are your sort of complimentary strengths?
- [18:22]
Beth Detolo
I'm pretty good at, like, the marketing stuff. Both of us have become good at the business stuff. At first it was me because I was the one doing it, and Carolina was coming from a design firm. But Carolina's become good at the business stuff, too. I am more of the, let's make things happen. Let's get it done. I'm the activator. Like, I'm the one that went home after the stoplight and got the URL and all that stuff. And I was like, call the lawyer. You know, like, I'm like. I'm like that.
- [18:45]
Carolina Gentry
I always say she's like the. The cliff jumper.
- [18:48]
Beth Detolo
Yeah. I'm the yes person. And Carolina, which sometimes drives me crazy, but sometimes it's really good for us. She's the pick it apart person. The.
- [18:57]
Carolina Gentry
Yeah, I'm like, wait a second. Let's look at this and analyze it. Yeah, yeah, let's look at this, analyze it. Let's look at numbers. Let's think about this. Or how is that going to affect that? It's always fine. It's just. She is very yes to everything.
- [19:11]
Beth Detolo
Not total. And like, I know how to set out what's not going to work.
- [19:15]
Carolina Gentry
I know, but I was just, I. I was just saying this before we got on this podcast about how she, she maybe might have a little horse of a voice because we went to Cables and we were in Vegas, had a crazy schedule. And then she went to right after, like right when she got home, she went to Spain to go to a factory with Cosentino and then she flew here to Dallas for us to go to Tulsa. And now she's back in Seattle. And this is all within like a two week span. And so she had like. And I was like. Because you say yes, like, you can't. She was like, I'm so tired.
- [19:51]
Beth Detolo
I was really tired, but I was still all of. I was still glad I did every single thing.
- [19:55]
Carolina Gentry
So I always say, she has FOMO and I have Jomo. I have a joy of missing out. She has the fear of missing out, which worked. Works really well together sometimes.
- [20:05]
Caitlin Peterson
How do you show up together or separately in the design work or as the leaders of your firm today?
- [20:12]
Beth Detolo
Well, for a long time we actually, we tried to work on projects together or at least have project reviews together. But we quickly realized that, you know, it was really difficult when there's a client involved because we. To coordinate both of our schedules on two different time zones with a client. It just became, you know, we didn't want the clients waiting on us. We've been working together now for so long that the styles have just sort of work like it's who we are. Me and Carolina are the pulp aesthetic. And we train our team to work within the pulp aesthetic. And both of us review every project that comes out of each one of our offices. Together or not together, individually. We each do it individually with our teams, but we don't work on projects together anymore. The only projects we really get the opportunity to work on together are like our partnerships or our special projects like a Kips Bay show house. Our textile collections that we're working, that we've. We have two textile collections with S. Harris and Fabrica and Fabrica contract. And there might be a little bit more in the works there, but I don't know if we're able to talk about it. Yet, but.
- [21:14]
Carolina Gentry
And also, like, we've done, like, ad campaigns and stuff like that where we have to design spaces and things like that. And so we. We always do that together, obviously. And it's so funny because when we do, we work together so fast.
- [21:25]
Beth Detolo
We're. We're just. We. We really design so well together. It's crazy. Like, we just get it done. There's just like an understand, like, this, like, Jedi mind understanding of, like, who's doing what and who's moving forward with what. I mean, we're good at communication, too, but it's just like, we sort of, like, we come up with the concept and then we sort of branch off and each do what we need to do and then come back together and keep it going. But that those are the fun things for us, you know? Like, we love. We love doing those fun things because they're. They're for us. Like, the Kips Bay thing, Like, we didn't have a client. That was my favorite project that's ever come out of our firm ever, you know, because we were the client, you know, and we had to pay, like, the client, too. It was crazy. But, yeah. And then. And of course, like, one of the proudest things. One of the things I'm most proud of that's come out of our firm, too, is our licensed textile collection, because we've worked with S. Harris our whole careers before we started our own firm. And so to be. When we got an email from them and they reached out, it was like, wait, what? Very, very exciting.
- [22:29]
Carolina Gentry
Well, we were like, what do they want? Yeah.
- [22:32]
Beth Detolo
Weird. You can go. Go down and, like, knock on doors and try to beat down doors and try to get opportunities, which you should. You shouldn't wait for everything to come in your lap. But I don't think that this fell in our lap. What this was was the result of really strategic marketing and really strategic social media. And so that, like, it was like, you build it and they will come type situation. It wasn't like it just happened. And we're so lucky.
- [22:59]
Caitlin Peterson
We're taking a quick break to remind designers about one of the benefits of the Shade Store's trade program. Trade Exclusive access to the Shade store. Com program for Roman shades, drapery, and cornices. Combined with the Shade Store's extensive collection of more than 1,200 in stock materials, the creative possibilities are virtually endless. Visit theshadestore.comtrade to sign up for a trade account today and learn more. What were you doing on Social to kind of put into the universe, like, we're ready to take on this. This challenge?
- [23:36]
Beth Detolo
Well, one of the things is that we always talk to the client we want to be working with, and we're always trying to showcase dynamic and interesting design, because that's the kind of work that we want to be doing. And I think by having, like, a really clear vision and a really clear person that we felt we were talking to, I think that helped attract people. I think what it did was it helped attract a lot of designers to our Instagram account. I think a lot of our following is designers, not just potential clients or design enthusiasts, but, like, a lot of our followers are interior designers. I think the other aspect, too, is that we ended up designing some of our own product like we wanted. You know, we had hardware collection that we produced on our own, you know, private label with some manufacturers and sell it on our website. And so we had, like, an e commerce component where we had candles and tea towels and throws and we still do, and hardware. And so I think that we sort of showcased that we were willing to put the work in and that we understood the value of income, like, selling things. And so I think that's one of the things that attracted the creative director to us. And so she reached out for a meeting, and we met. And at first, it was sort of just like a. Let's do a social collaboration. And, you know, we'll. We. You can have. You can design your own little sort of, like, merchandise collection and do a set, and we'll do a social campaign with it. And so we're like, okay, we'll talk. And so we went to their offices, and as soon as we got to their offices, we. Carolina and I just, like, started playing with the textiles that were sort of, like, in limbo. And we, like, literally stood in a hallway and like, laid out this whole, like, palette of textiles that we were like, look at this.
- [25:18]
Carolina Gentry
What about this? And what if you change the scale of it? What do you change the thread of this into a different color and moved it here or whatever? Like, it was just.
- [25:25]
Beth Detolo
Yeah, crazy. So people started walking through the halls, and they were like, what is that? Like, employees of Fabrica started walking through the halls. They were like, what is this? Like, what's what? You know, what's this? This is amazing. And so that was going to be part of our social campaign. And then me and Carolina were like, hold on a second. You're going to put all this money into, like, letting us build a set, letting us do our own little textiles is like, why don't we just Do a license collection. Why would we just limit this to a social campaign? And so we had to really, like, like, advocate for pushing for more and more and more until we got what we were hoping for. And it worked out really well in our favor. And so we've since, like I said, we've designed two collections for them and have, you know, we're working on other categories with them that we're super excited about. And the other part of it, I don't think I anticipated this, but I didn't realize how much more about the design community our firm would become because, you know, I thought we were just like, designing these textiles and putting them out in the world and people were going to buy them. But then to see your work and your textiles show up in other designers projects, I feel like we felt connected to the design community in a different way because we were like, contributing to their projects or they were finding something special about what we designed and putting them in their projects. So I just feel like, to me and to Carolyn, like, to both of us, that was like, just so special because it was like, oh, my gosh, like, like all these people we've worked alongside with, now we can be a little part of their projects. And so, I mean, a very small part, of course, but I mean, and it's all them, not us.
- [26:54]
Carolina Gentry
I love it when someone sends us, like, an image of our fabric in their project and how they used it, because that's what's so fun about seeing, you know, something that you helped create and then seeing another creative person's vision and using that in their own interpretation.
- [27:10]
Beth Detolo
Yeah. Totally different how we. Than how we would use it. Like, it's just. It's actually inspiring for us too. So. So that's been a really fun part that I never, like, never thought ahead to. And so that's been really very cool.
- [27:22]
Caitlin Peterson
That's awesome. What part of running your firm has tested you the most as entrepreneurs?
- [27:28]
Beth Detolo
Managing.
- [27:29]
Carolina Gentry
Yeah, Managing a team is rough sometimes.
- [27:32]
Beth Detolo
I mean, I will say it's taken us a while to get here, but we have an amazing team. Like, all of our designers are really great. We have. But there have been times when it's been a lot harder. Like we've made the wrong hire. We are designers. You know, we started that way. We've had to fall into being business people and be. Fall into being good managers and be, you know, and we've learned a lot over the years. Like, I personally have learned so much about how to manage people over the last, you know, couple of decades and I feel like I'm a much better manager now than I used to be.
- [28:02]
Carolina Gentry
I think that's something that all designers struggle with is, you know, finding the perfect team and managing them. Because, you know, we are, at the end of the day a small business and, you know, we're a boutique sized firm and everybody has to wear a wide variety of different hats, including Beth and myself. So, you know, it's rough juggling that.
- [28:27]
Caitlin Peterson
How big is your team today?
- [28:29]
Beth Detolo
There's 12 of us, like, scattered all over the place.
- [28:31]
Caitlin Peterson
When did your roles start to change in a profound way as your teams got bigger?
- [28:36]
Beth Detolo
My role changed around 2018. My mom was super sick and I had to step away for. I didn't actually. I actually never stepped away. That's a lie. But I wasn't able to be as present. I wasn't able to be as present for the clients as I normally would. I was. Because I would. I was like almost like a micromanager before, you know, I wanted to see every little thing. I was like, hand holding. I was like, way like. I was like super involved and I had no choice at that time, but then to let go a little bit and see what happened. And so I think that was the year where we were growing. Things were changing. That was also the year, I believe, that one of our. Our managing director moved to Los Angeles and my other designer moved to Nashville. They left me. They still work. They were still work for us. But so I, you know, I think that's the thing is, like, sometimes things happen in life and you're just like, I can't do it all. Like, I. I need help and I need to let go of some things. You know, sometimes those hard situations just force you into growing up a little bit as like a designer and a manager. You know, I feel like I've been.
- [29:38]
Carolina Gentry
The same the whole time, don't you?
- [29:40]
Beth Detolo
I do.
- [29:41]
Carolina Gentry
I think that since I've been doing this longer than Beth, just in general, like, when I worked at a hospitality firm, I already managed five people on my team, so I was already used to doing that. I think for me, it was difficult leaving that. And when we started our business, when it was just the two of us, I was like, oh, my gosh, like.
- [30:01]
Caitlin Peterson
Do we have to do all this stuff?
- [30:03]
Beth Detolo
Everything?
- [30:04]
Carolina Gentry
Yeah, that was a lot more difficult. So I feel like when we started to get more people in to take responsibilities, it was better.
- [30:14]
Beth Detolo
You know, it's hard being in the business. You want to run the business, you don't want it to run you.
- [30:19]
Carolina Gentry
Yeah. And we're interior designers. We don't want to be, you know, just business people all day and not be able to do the creative part. That's why, that's why we wanted to be interior centers to begin with, to do the fun stuff.
- [30:30]
Caitlin Peterson
How do you navigate that or what have you decided to actively delegate and where do you both stay really rooted in the work?
- [30:38]
Carolina Gentry
I feel like we do a good job. We have like a whole design process, so we have like project kickoffs with the team, you know, setting up the aesthetic and you know, making sure that we all understand what, what the project's supposed to be or supposed to look like. And, you know, letting the team go off and do their thing.
- [30:55]
Beth Detolo
Yeah, we give them the autonomy to sort of take our direction and, and, and build from there. And then they come back and check in and we give feedback and they make adjustments. And so we're super involved. We're just not, you know, in the weeds, which is, I think, a great place to be. Like, we really get to be sort of more creative directors in a way, which, which I really love. But then of course, you know, we're still on top of all the logistics as well. Like we have weekly team meetings where we go over every detail of every project and make sure everybody's on board and doing the, the right thing. So I mean, we really are super tapped into our, our to our client work. We're just in a place where like I could take that meeting from Tulsa if I needed to. You know what I mean? So.
- [31:39]
Carolina Gentry
Or my car in a parking lot.
- [31:40]
Beth Detolo
Yeah, exactly.
- [31:42]
Caitlin Peterson
How has this sort of geographic dispersion of some of your team members? How has it changed sort of the responsibility or what it means to have like FaceTime or to run a job?
- [31:53]
Beth Detolo
Well, I think that's, it's sort of one of those things where it's like a double edged sword because in one way our two team leads actually do not live or they have both moved away. It works out well because part of it is like them being at their desk all day is really great because when we're running around and having to go do job site visits and they're totally dialed into the clients at all time versus like running around all the time. On the flip side of that, we are the ones oftentimes running around to the job sites, which is a good thing and a bad thing. Like sometimes we're locked into having to do that stuff, but also sometimes it's like this is what, like this is my favorite part of the job. Jobs going to a job site. So, you know, it's sort of, it is a double edged sword because it's like we have to do that or our team has to do it, but it just, it's, it just sort of works. Like, we figured out a way to make it work because when you find good people and you don't want to lose them, I think finding a way to, to make it work for them to stay on the team is more important than, you know, sticking to the way you normally do things and not exploring how it could be. So I think that adaptability has, has, you know, helped us to grow our business.
- [33:02]
Carolina Gentry
It also, I mean, also the pandemic, like, pushed us into that too. It's like, you know, everybody had to do that for, for quite a while and it was just, it just became kind of a standard and. Okay, and everybody made it work.
- [33:14]
Beth Detolo
But it's also, it's also opened us up to other markets too, like to take projects in Portland or take projects in Lubbock. We haven't really gotten many projects in Los Angeles, even though we have someone there. But we've gotten some in the Palm Springs area because we have a house there. Oh, and that's the other thing that we didn't even talk about is our Airbnb. We have like a real estate sort of investment branch that we've opened up too, where we're. We bought a building in Dallas, we bought a house in Palm Springs that we rent out. And so, you know, just making those smart investments, you know. Yeah, which, which it makes, you know, it's even more important to have a team because, you know, we're, we have a lot on our plates. And so having a good team that takes care of our clients is really important because, you know, the clients are the most important part of all this, really.
- [34:01]
Caitlin Peterson
Can you talk a little bit more on the team front, how your team breaks down in terms of the roles people play and how they help you get from sort of start to finish on a job?
- [34:14]
Beth Detolo
You know, most of our staff is designers and the roles are all sort of the same, really, like in a, in a way, aside from the hierarchy of having a team lead, a designer and a junior designer. But I think the biggest thing is that, you know, we're such a small group that like, personality is just so important. Like, I, I nearly prioritize personality and common sense and hard work and the ability to learn more than critical thinking.
- [34:41]
Carolina Gentry
Skills are hard to come by sometimes, which is what we call common sense. But it's a nicer way of saying is critical thinking skills, like, can you come up with the solution to a problem? Because we will have problems. In interior design, you have a problem all the time and problem sounds negative. But when I say problem as it's something that you were not expecting, as in a piece of furniture came in damage or your fabric came in in the wrong color, or they put the wrong wall covering in the wrong room by accident because they didn't read the plans. So you have to pivot every single day and you can't let that bring you down. You have to just, just take it on the chin and keep going, figure out a better way to do it or a solution.
- [35:23]
Beth Detolo
And it's hard for. I think it's hard for most designers to find a really good fit for them, for their, for their team because it's. Everyone has a different setup, everyone has different personalities. So I think it is, it's always, it's really tough to find the right fit. But once you find them, you gotta, you gotta do what you can to hold on to them because, you know, that's how we've had people end up all over the place because they're. We found good people and we want to keep them.
- [35:46]
Caitlin Peterson
How are you creating sort of pathways so that employees do feel like they, they have, you know, a 10 plus year future at the firm?
- [35:52]
Beth Detolo
Well, I mean, one of the things we do is we offer benefits. We've got like, you know, health and dental, and we have health and wellness program where we, you know, reimburse them for a certain amount of money each year for health and wellness. Obviously we have vacation time and all that good stuff in 401k. But then as far as the employee growth goes, you know, we, we do encourage everyone to like, if they want to study for the ncidq, we will reimburse them when they pass class. We also spend a lot of money each year taking our team to different trade shows. When I was in Spain with Cosentino last week, we took three of our employees with us. Wow. Yeah, so it's just, you know, stuff like that I think is just really important. We just last year started something we call the Pulp Summit, that every year or every other year, depending, we're trying to get everyone together to learn from each other, talk about, you know, where the company's headed, but also kind of like wine and dine this the team a little bit and just make it really fun.
- [36:53]
Carolina Gentry
And that way we're like a one big company. So everybody gets to interact with each other in Person, not just digitally.
- [36:59]
Beth Detolo
And then we also, I mean, not employee retention related, but like, as far as the Pulp Summit goes, where we try to get the whole company together, we do have like a little private Facebook group, which I know face like, it was so funny because I, I, I told one of our team members who at the time was like 22, I was like, I know a lot of people would tell you to stay off of social media at work, but we're like the cool company we're going to tell you to be on Facebook. And she was like, I haven't logged into Facebook in like a decade. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed because I thought I was so cool.
- [37:25]
Carolina Gentry
She's like, yank mom.
- [37:29]
Beth Detolo
I was like, oh God. So anyways, we have, we still have this private Facebook group and we can't let it go now because it has like years and years of, of like content. But you know, when people go to job sites or when they do installs, or when they design a project for a client, they post it in this group so that everyone can see what they're working on, be inspired by a new vendor that somebody's using. So that, and we can also keep that pulp thread and the pulp aesthetic consistent. You know, it's, we're all, we are all learning from each other and growing. And the fun thing about our firm is that every year we just like, our projects get better and better and, and as that happens, our aesthetic continues to develop as well. So we're able to, you know, use higher end vendors and layer a little bit more extensively than we would if our budget was more limited. So, you know, it's important that we're all learning from each other as we're designing because if everyone just saw it when it gets published, they wouldn't see it for years because a lot of times we have to hold on to projects before we can put them anywhere, you know, so it's fun to see what everyone's working on or how they solved a job site problem or an issue they might have had with a vendor. I mean, I guess that does go to employer retention a bit because we try to keep everyone connected as much as we can, even though we're all, you know, sort of all over the place.
- [38:44]
Caitlin Peterson
You said earlier this idea that, you know, it takes a year at least to teach someone the firm's aesthetic. What happens in that year? What is your investment up front in a new designer?
- [38:57]
Beth Detolo
Well, I mean, to start, I'll just say when we hire, when we hire.
- [39:02]
Carolina Gentry
They can't figure it out in a year, forget it.
- [39:05]
Beth Detolo
Well, we do have a 90 day, it's sort of like a 90 day probation. We call it like a trial. Yeah, we have, we each have the right to walk away if, if it doesn't work. And that's usually just more. Is this person communicating well or do.
- [39:19]
Carolina Gentry
They have a good attitude? Do they have good work ethic? A lot of times things on paper look great, but when you throw them into actual environment, it's a different situation.
- [39:28]
Beth Detolo
Yeah. After nine months, I would say is usually like where you're like, okay, say they're gonna get this. And they don't necessarily have it yet, but we know they're gonna get it. And then after that it's like they just continue to grow from there. And so that's where I feel like the nine month mark is, where it's like really magic because you can really like see like, okay, this is gonna be awesome. Of course we're investing in them already and investing time. We're bringing them with us to showrooms, we're taking them with us to job sites. They're sitting in on presentations. They're doing the work also. I mean, they're not just sitting, observing the entire time. They're so. But after the nine months, I think it's where we really actually start to see them grow and bring things to the table and be like a really awesome member of the team.
- [40:14]
Carolina Gentry
I mean, at the end of the day when you are working at a design firm, I say this to the girls at the office. You are going to make this what you want it to be like. You're going to try hard. If you really enjoy what you're doing and you're excited about design, then you want to learn more about it. You want to become a master at it. You want to become, you want this to be or better yourself in so many different ways. So you on, on your own free time, you know, should look through magazines or, you know, want to look through magazines because you want to know about different types of aesthetics. You want to learn about the history of furnishings or this and that and the other. They only teach you a certain amount in school. If you don't, then you just become stagnant. And that includes us as well as principals. You know, things change, trends change, and we have to be on top of that. It's part of who we are and part of our business. And that's how we become better employees and better leaders and, you know, better at what we do.
- [41:13]
Beth Detolo
There are Some designers out there who, they want to be doing the design and they don't want someone super passionate about it. They just want people to draw what they told them to draw, which is also a fine model, you know what I mean? But for us, we like to have this like, you know, little pulp family of designers who are all, we're all in it together to like make this really great for the clients. And we're collaborating and so that's just sort of our company culture. And we want them to be excited about design, we want them to be learning, we want them to be observing, we want them finding new vendors, we want them, you know, figuring out how to make the client's life better or how to make this experience better for the client. Make sure the clients are, you know, like, we want people that are go getters in that way. So, you know, that's not everyone, but that's, that's who we are.
- [41:59]
Caitlin Peterson
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- [42:44]
Beth Detolo
Well, I mean, really what it is is that they have to be like, we have to like them. That's the best fit for our firm is when we like the clients.
- [42:53]
Carolina Gentry
You're going into a relationship with this person, you know, you're entering their personal space and they're taking your advice on that, on how you can better their environment, you know, make their, their house, a home, however you want to say it, how they, you know, make their lives better. So you have to like each other. You have to have a chemistry check. And that's why we have, you know, different processes and procedures set up for intake and doing, you know, an initial phone call, you know, doing a consult and really understanding.
- [43:25]
Beth Detolo
Yeah, even the content we have before all that, sort of, we have a video posted on that page that talks about how, you know, you're not just picking us, but we're also going to pick you.
- [43:35]
Carolina Gentry
That's why over the years we've learned so much. We Have a business strategist. We had somebody to, you know, to help us on our messaging and things like that. Because we are not business people. We are creative.
- [43:46]
Beth Detolo
I mean, we are not designers.
- [43:48]
Carolina Gentry
Well, we are now, but I mean, when we first started and for the most part a lot of creatives aren't, don't have a business mindset. But you know, we've had a lot of people give us great advice and we have great consultants that we've worked with over, you know, the last decade or more maybe even. And it's helped us put that messaging across on our website or through our social channels on who it really is that we want to work with and how we work so that there isn't any kind of weird communication in between.
- [44:20]
Beth Detolo
It.
- [44:20]
Carolina Gentry
It does a really good job in weeding, weeding the people that aren't going to do well with us out.
- [44:26]
Beth Detolo
So our intake process I think is, is like superb in my mind because we have that video that's the first thing they see. And then after that they have the form they fill out online, which asks a lot of questions like, like what's your, what is your idea of a successful project? And there's a dropdown for them to choose from it. If they're like, I just want my house to look good, I'm like, well, that might not be us, you know, or if their budget's not right because there's like numbers on there. And it's like if you're, you know, you can see right now that it's an investment just by having to choose from the drop down, what the numbers are so that, that weeds people out immediately. And then once they, once we get the intake form from them, then we write them back and we ask them to watch another video about our process and so, and then schedule a call with us. And so that before, you know, they have to watch the video before the call. That also weeds people out because people are like, you know what, what, I think you might be more full service than I actually was needing. Like, I think, you know, so it, it saves us a ton of time. And then we have the call and then we have a consult which is paid, we're not going for free. And then we decide if we're going to work with them or not. And I mean usually by the time we get to the consult, we, we know it's a good fit. You know, we're not trying to waste anyone's time or money. So yeah, I think, you know, finding the right fit, personality wise, budget wise, esthetic wise, like, you know, it has to all kind of align.
- [45:46]
Caitlin Peterson
Tell me more about this video. I've never heard anyone do that. Like, yes, sending a packet, sending a PDF, sending whatever. But saying, you know, we want you to sit with us basically and walk through this together in video format is really interesting.
- [45:59]
Beth Detolo
It's really just a sales tool so that, you know, really we're selling a service so they have to like us. Right? So if they decide from these videos that like, oh my God, they're annoying, like, forget it. You know what I mean? So, like, they have to like us. But the video, we do all the selling for ourselves in these videos so they understand the process, they understand what we're about. They understand that we're all about full service, that we want to see your project through to completion. We want all the art and accessories. We don't just want to like, pick finishes for you or like finish up a room for you that you started and you couldn't figure out. Like, this is what we do. Like, we're full service. We're going to, we want to help you take risks a little bit in design. So, like, we're doing all the selling before we ever even spend the time to talk with anybody. Because, you know, time is money. We bill by the hour. And so this is what our firm's about. If you like it, let's talk. If you don't, there's someone else out there for you.
- [46:52]
Caitlin Peterson
Can we talk a little bit more about project budgets? As the firm has evolved, how are you talking to clients about the investment you expect and how are you approaching both the fees for the firm's work and also the appropriate budget for the furniture. Furniture and art and accessories that you're procuring.
- [47:13]
Beth Detolo
You know, I think that's always, it's always the hardest conversation. Right? Like, it's the most challenging conversation because no project is the same. And when you, when you are talking to these clients initially, you haven't seen their house yet. You don't know how big the scale is. You don't know how difficult they're going to be.
- [47:27]
Carolina Gentry
Some of them have never worked with the designer, so they don't know how it is to work with us.
- [47:31]
Beth Detolo
Yeah, so the, the first thing we, we say is that we're going to have to figure out the scope of your project and then we'll provide a services estimate. And we always do that with a caveat of saying the services estimate is most likely a minimum and you're, it's going to be dependent on you and your project, because we bill by the hour. We don't do flat fee. So we've tried it before. We always get screwed. Yeah, it's like. We always get screwed.
- [47:57]
Carolina Gentry
Yeah. But it's also. It's based on the client's ability to make a decision. Everybody makes decisions differently. So you can't really put a number to that if everybody has a different personality.
- [48:06]
Beth Detolo
Yeah, so. So we do a services estimate for sure, because we want them to know what they're getting into. But we do bill by the hour and we bill monthly. So, you know, they're like a lot of times those monthly invoices will help clients make better decisions, like the next month. You know what I mean? And then from a furnishing standpoint, this is what we've been saying is that it's any. It could be anywhere. Like, you know, when we have these budget conversations, especially on the. In the initial call, we'll say, you know, I can get you a. A $1200 coffee table. I can get you a $40,000 coffee table. That totally depends on where you live, you know, and of course, the construction budgets are a whole other animal. Like, that has to be a conversation between us, the client, and the contractor. I mean, we can work within most budgets as long as we understand it and it's feasible. It's just we have to know what it is so that we can select accordingly or partner with the builder. You know, whether. If we're chosen first, which, a lot of times we're sort of like the project lead, I guess, because we're chosen first and we help build the team, we'll work closely with a contractor to build a budget for them based on the expectations we feel the client has and what we have for the project. But then sometimes we're not the first person on the team. They already have an architect, they already have a contractor, and we're like last man on board. And so we're having to figure out what is the construction budget and how do we design within that and is it feasible? A lot of times we find that it's not like the contractor put in Home Depot pricing, and we're like, that's the not going to work for this client. So we have to have really tough conversations, you know, halfway through the project that the client never anticipated because they don't want to have like Home Depot tile in their house.
- [49:39]
Caitlin Peterson
What does it mean to you now to be part of a team on a job site? Are you strongly prioritizing the project where you are the first one on the job, do you want to be driving the bus? Or how are you navigating sort of those shifting responsibilities with a team of other tradespeople?
- [49:59]
Carolina Gentry
I would rather us be involved up front, but that's just like, from the very beginning, if possible.
- [50:04]
Beth Detolo
Yeah. I mean, that's always. I mean, obviously when you're in control, it's always the best. Right? Like, But I mean, regardless, I mean, I think the best, the best scenario is when you have an entire team that has been built by the client or by us or by the architect, whoever, and everyone is collaborating. Like, we all respect each other and we all have the client's best interest at heart. And that's the thing is, like, we don't have our own interest at heart. We have the client's interest at heart. Like, we want to make sure that's the best outcome for the client. Like, I had a meeting yesterday. We were, we were reviewing contractor bids, and I, like, kind of teared up a little bit. I was like, in the airport lounge having this meeting with this client, and I kind of teared up a little bit because she was just like, thank you so much. I trust you and I want you to tell me when what I want isn't feasible. And I was like.
- [50:49]
Caitlin Peterson
You also.
- [50:50]
Beth Detolo
But that's part of, like, us. Us meeting these clients and, like, really like appreciating them and them appreciating us. And the same for the whole team. Like, we're all trying to collaborate to make this the best outcome possible for everyone, primarily the client. But we all want to put this project in our portfolio. Yeah.
- [51:07]
Carolina Gentry
We want to photograph it. We want to be awesome. We want the client to love it so they can refer us to their friends. We want their friends to come over and love it so that they hire us. We want the contractors or builders or architects to refer us as well, and we want to refer them. So let's all be team players.
- [51:23]
Beth Detolo
There's no time for, for like all the riff raff and. No, there's no time for drama, riff raff, none of it.
- [51:27]
Carolina Gentry
Ego.
- [51:28]
Beth Detolo
Right? There's no time for ego.
- [51:29]
Caitlin Peterson
What is the biggest engine for growth in the firm right now? You talked about photographing your work getting published. Is it press? Is it your own social media? Is it word of mouth? Like, you know, what's like the most promising bucket of leads?
- [51:44]
Beth Detolo
One of them is social media, and then the other is just providing our clients with such excellent service that we get. Get referrals.
- [51:53]
Carolina Gentry
Yeah, referrals, I think, are huge for residential.
- [51:55]
Beth Detolo
Yeah.
- [51:56]
Carolina Gentry
For sure.
- [51:56]
Beth Detolo
So those are our two. Those are our two primary forms of which. Which is funny because we were one of the early adopters to Instagram and we never got clients from Instagram back in the day. But over the past several years, we have been getting, like, good clients from Instagram. And I think a lot of that has to do with we've gotten clearer about our messaging. There have been times where we've given up our Instagram to have other people help us with it. Didn't work. So now I'm back to doing it. But then also, you know, I think the demographic of Instagram has changed. Whereas, like, the, the youth were on it when we were first on it, and now we've built, you know, a good following where now all the elders are on Instagram. So, so, like, we started a TikTok. I'm like, what else do we need to start a Snapchat? So, like, so it's like, at least we have a presence there. When all of our, you know, young people grow up and have money, then they can hire us. But. And the funny thing too, is, like, you know, Instagram isn't just for attracting new clients. It's also for messaging to your existing clients because you can remind them or like a former client, like, you can remind them that we're here to do something or that we are working on cooler, better projects now, or do, you know, just like, spark something in their brain where they'll remember to refer you to their friend, even though we worked with them years prior. So it works. It's like, it's like, you know, works.
- [53:19]
Carolina Gentry
For multiple, like, avenues back because they're. They bought a vacation home. You're, like, in their feed and they're like, oh, actually, like, I need to call them because they need to come. They need to come do a refresh on half the house or they need to come and, like, work on this new space that I'm thinking about purchasing or going and looking at it with a realtor to make sure. Make sure that this is a place I should purchase, you know, to move forward.
- [53:39]
Caitlin Peterson
That's awesome. What, when you look at your business, makes you most hopeful about the future. Future?
- [53:46]
Beth Detolo
I think just the fact that we have consistently grown since we've started just. And, you know, we have some things in the pipe for next year that we're super excited about that will also help, you know, really grow our firm that I don't want to be coy about, but we can't really say yet.
- [54:04]
Carolina Gentry
But, But I feel like we Are also coming full circle because we did initially start. We did initially start our business and you know, wanting to pursue product development and product. Product design and you know, we have collections with S. Harris and we're, we're wanting to collaborate with other brands and actually like, you know, move into different types of product development. Like, we would love to have furniture lines, we would love to have a lighting line, we would love to have an accessories line. You know, that's where I see our future going. On top of the interior design section of, of our business.
- [54:39]
Beth Detolo
You'll never arrive. You know, I think that we've learned that you never arrive. Like every time you reach a milestone, you want to reach another milestone and you still have the same difficulties and challenges. You learn from them. Then new challenges pop up. You know, like it's, it's always just like a shifting, changing animal. And I think that's what's exciting about it is that it's been good and it's just. I hope it's just going to continue to get better. And I think that's what's exciting about it is that I am really proud of what Carolina and I have accomplished over the last 18 years. And I'm excited to see like, it still feels, you know, in, in some ways that makes us feel like a little old, but in reality if like you, hey, well, it's been a wild ride but like in reality when you look at it like 18 years is actually pretty young for a long standing business. So like what are we going to do in the next 20? You know, that's just, that's really exciting to think about. So. But you know, I'm still really proud of our company and I'm really proud of the name and I'm proud of our brand. And you know, it's. I. We've come such a long way and I'm just excited to see where we're, where we're going to go.
- [55:50]
Caitlin Peterson
What does success mean to each of you today?
- [55:53]
Carolina Gentry
I mean, I feel like success, I mean, I feel like we are successful, but like Beth said, I feel like we're always, always, you know, wanting to grow more and just keep going. And I think that's why we're both business owners. Becoming a household brand, I think would be the ultimate success in my eyes.
- [56:14]
Caitlin Peterson
Who do you look to? Who's done that or what does that mean to you?
- [56:17]
Carolina Gentry
Magnolia Home. Nate Burkham. Felicia Kelly Wearstar. Yeah, but I feel like, I feel like they're more like designer known people.
- [56:27]
Beth Detolo
Well, I mean, Nate Burkus has. I mean, I don't know that I.
- [56:30]
Carolina Gentry
Want that level, but, you know. Yeah, I mean, but I. I love being a designer's designer. You know, I. I think that's. That's so fun. I think I love going to these trade shows or these. You know, like, we went to Scene X and we thought it was so great. And we were there with Tom Felicia. We were there hanging out with, like, a bunch of different designers, and we had the best time.
- [56:51]
Beth Detolo
I mean, that's the thing too, too is like. Like back before we started Pulp, if you would have told me that me and Tom Felicia and like, me, Carolina and Tom Felicia were sit. Were sitting around drinking together and making jokes about a hot priest, I would have. I wouldn't have told you that was the truth, but that's really what happened.
- [57:07]
Caitlin Peterson
That wouldn't have won in two.
- [57:08]
Beth Detolo
Truth. Yeah. So, I mean, it was amazing. But for. To me, what success. What success would mean to me is to, like Carolina said, you know, put the work in to become a household brand, but then have the flexibility to have the type of time and lifestyle and travel that I would like to give myself. I don't know that I'll ever retire necessarily, because I don't. I think I just always want to be working, but I. But I want to be in a place where we've built this brand. It's sort of running itself. We're a household name, and I have the flexibility to then let it run. Done. You know, still pipe, like, still piping in. Don't worry, I'm too controlling. That's why we step away.
- [57:51]
Carolina Gentry
But that's why you. You really need to have that, you know, that core team that you can trust to do that. And that's. That's really important.
- [57:58]
Caitlin Peterson
Is there anything that you look back that you wish you had known when you started the business?
- [58:03]
Beth Detolo
Oh, you know what? I will say. I will. There is one little thing we learned a little like a lesson from, but it's so, so minor. But, like, when we first started out, we wanted to be fancy, you know, because we wanted to be designing fancy houses and, you know, know, like, luxurious estates and residences. So we did a photo shoot where we were all, like, posed and, like, sitting by this fireplace with a chair, and we. We looked horrendous. We looked. Well, we looked good, but we looked. We.
- [58:29]
Carolina Gentry
We didn't look like ourselves. Like we were. You know what I mean? And I think that's something that's really important just in general, like, as business owners is I just I hate it when people say fake it to your make it sometimes because I just don't like that expression because I feel like you should really be who you are and you shouldn't really worry about what other people are doing so much. You should, you should be true to yourself.
- [58:50]
Beth Detolo
That is a lesson.
- [58:51]
Carolina Gentry
What other people are. Yeah, what other people are, are doing isn't necessarily what you should be doing.
- [58:55]
Beth Detolo
Exactly. And that's the lesson we learned from the, that photo shoot is that we ended up going on this like trip with all these other designers and they thought we were going to be so high maintenance and so nasty. They were like, you guys are so cool and so nice. Like, we thought you were going to be like so high maintenance, so terrible.
- [59:09]
Carolina Gentry
They were like, we thought you were gonna be snobby is what they said. Whoa.
- [59:15]
Beth Detolo
So from the here on out, we just have like, you know, from there on out we were like, we just need to be ourselves. We need to wear the clothes that we would wear normally. We, you know, we're not the elite rich. We are designers who are happen to be cool and hip and, you know, that's how we're gonna be. And so that's how we've been ever.
- [59:32]
Carolina Gentry
Since like I wore jelly shoes today with like jeans and a tank top and like army jacket.
- [59:36]
Beth Detolo
It.
- [59:37]
Carolina Gentry
That was my outfit today. And I went and saw a client.
- [59:39]
Caitlin Peterson
So does that idea of not faking it till you make it apply to where you are in your business also, were you kind of upfront about that in the early days of the business with a client too?
- [59:51]
Beth Detolo
I mean, you kind of have to be like when you're, when you're going to meet with like super wealthy people and you drive up in a, in a Honda, like they kind of know. And we've always been, whether it be with clients or other designers, we've always been so open and sharing. Like, we'll always share. Like we would, we'll share our social media strategy or we, this is how we do our intake form. Or here's what we're using. This is the system we're using for like, we're using studio. Like we always, we'll always share our strategies. And I feel like the better our industry is, the better we are.
- [60:19]
Carolina Gentry
I don't like it when people are in such competition with each other. Like there's plenty of work for all of us to go to go around and all of us have different aesthetics. So why, you know, be catty or you know, try to be against each other. We should really all try to champion each other. We're all having to deal with the same issues.
- [60:36]
Beth Detolo
Yeah.
- [60:37]
Carolina Gentry
At the end of the day.
- [60:41]
Beth Detolo
That'S.
- [60:41]
Caitlin Peterson
Our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, check out new products or browse job openings, head on over to businessofhome.com and if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help help others discover the show. If you have a note for the show or a story of your own to share, I'd love to hear from you and you can email me@trade talesusofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Kaitlyn Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you back here next weekend.