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- [00:01]
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As humans, we're naturally driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search Match with Indeed. When I was looking to hire someone, it was so slow and overwhelming. I wish I had used Indeed. If you need to hire, you need Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to INDEED data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Ditch the busy work. Use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. And Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster. 93% of employers agree Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites, according to a recent Indeed survey. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com podcast that's Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply.
- [01:00]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
I do think that there's a fascination with the evil and the wicked. How can somebody's mind work in that way? In fact, the book that originally called me on the Pied Piper's Prince, that man that I wrote it, that is loosely based on, he was the first serial killer. At least that's how the word got coined, was because of this guy. And he has brought great fascination to people. Why would he do the things he did? And how did he convince others to do the things he did?
- [01:34]
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Welcome to the Tru Fiction Project, a podcast series that explores the origins of fiction. Every week we begin with an interview nonfiction followed by a creative piece, fiction inspired by something from the interview. The idea is to demonstrate, of course, that fiction is born out of our life experiences. Now here's your host, storyteller, author, public speaker, health and wellness expert, Renita Hora.
- [02:04]
Renita Hora
Welcome to the True Fiction Project. I am your host, Renita Hora. This is your home, your storyteller's den for all kinds of stories, including the scary ones. And I'm very pleased to introduce my guest today. Her name is Gina Lynelle Schaeffer. She is a writer of paranormal and historical fiction. So that is an interesting combination because so much of history gets lost in the webs of the past. Hi Gina. Welcome to the True Fiction Project.
- [02:39]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
Hello. It's great to be here.
- [02:41]
Renita Hora
Great to have you on the show. So you are in Jefferson, Texas, is that right?
- [02:47]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
Yes, ma'am.
- [02:48]
Renita Hora
And you have written five books. Are they all about the paranormal life in Jefferson, Texas, or not in Jefferson?
- [02:57]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
I just recently moved to Jefferson, which is a very historical town but they do have the paranormal element in it. But it's all throughout life. Yes, there are some Texas based, but some of them take places in other areas. And I have worked as a paranormal investigator, so I do pull some of my own personal elements into the story.
- [03:18]
Renita Hora
Excellent. That's what we like, especially on this show, your personal elements and how they contribute to the story. So is all paranormal fiction historical?
- [03:29]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
I don't necessarily think so. I think, you know, obviously you can get a lot from the imagination. However, what I have found with readers, especially with young readers, if they can connect to something that they know, then even though there may be a lot of fiction and a lot of fantasy in there, having that tangible piece that they can connect to and it makes them want to read more, it draws them in further and maybe even want to do some more research on their own.
- [03:59]
Renita Hora
I see. Okay. So with your specific stories, tell us how you got started and where you got started with the idea. What I mean by that is, did you set about to write historical fiction which kind of turned into paranormal? Or there was an overlap, or was it the other way around? Or neither, actually.
- [04:21]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
I think my imagination is just on fire. That's what I always say when I sit down to write. I have no clue what is going to come out until it is on the page. I just finished a book that I'm editing, had no clue how it was going to begin, what the middle is going to be like or how it was going to end. I just sit down and I write and it falls out of me. Sometimes I'll be inspired by a dream. I do travel a lot. I do love historical locations, so sometimes that will ignite something. I have a lot of interest in crime, and so I will go and visit those sites. And even though I'm not necessarily telling their full story, there are pieces in there. So there's a lot of research that goes into it, but there's a lot of interest as far as the words falling on the pages. It just happens.
- [05:11]
Renita Hora
It just happens. So I have some really basic questions. I mean, as I listen to you, Gina, you are special. Speaking for the American, you know, far flung. What I mean by that is true crime is such a huge interest in America. Maybe elsewhere in the world as well, but certainly here. And my question is, why? Firstly, it's a very basic question. Why is everybody into true crime? What is so fascinating about it?
- [05:41]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
I'm not a psychologist, so I can't really tell you directly. I do think that there's a fascination with the evil and The Wicked. How can somebody's mind worked in that way? In fact, the book that originally called me on the Pied Piper's Prince, that man that I wrote it, that is loosely based on, he was the first serial killer, at least that's how the word got coined, was because of this guy. And he has brought great fascination to people. Why would he do the things he did? And how did he convince others to do the things he did? And if you look through historical time, how did Hitler convinced the Third Reich to commit these horrible crimes against people, these soldiers and concentration camps that did these evil, wicked things? What part of them did not say no? And I think there is a fascination with that, about how easily people are manipulated by the wicked. As far as why the interest is, I know with me, that has something to do with it, wanting to have a little bit of an understanding. But let's face it, those crime documentaries, I mean, probably 10, 15 years ago there weren't that many. Now they're absolutely exploding.
- [06:58]
Renita Hora
Yeah, they flood every single aspect of the media. So you mentioned that you go to those sites for research and reading. What are those sites?
- [07:09]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
Well, for example, with the Pied Piper's Prince, I was near Pasadena, Texas. I actually lived in Laporte for a long time. And so I visited the house that he tortured and murdered the boys in. He's actually buried not too far away from me. But I also went and I visited the victim's graves and contacted some of the victim's families, some of the police officers that were actually there on the site. Because even though it was a fiction book, I really want to draw in the emotion of what is happening there. In some of my other books, once again, I'll go and just actually physically visit. And sometimes, because I visit historical sites all the time anyways, sometimes the story is ignited by the visit, and sometimes it's the other way around.
- [07:55]
Renita Hora
I see. Okay, this. I'm getting it. I thought initially when you said sites, I thought you meant websites, but you're actually talking about real physical places. And your research process is fascinating. So you land upon a crew time story, a documentary perhaps, or through the me, you watch it, study it, think about it, and then you go to the physical places mentioned in it, referenced in it, talk to victims, families and all in order to then create a fictional story loosely based upon that true crime story. Is that right?
- [08:31]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
Absolutely. Most of the time I do do that, or, you know, I have a lot of knowledge. I'm actually surprised that the people that will talk to me about it Sometimes there are people that will talk to me that I'm like, I'm not so sure I want to talk to that person. But yes, I. To visit the sites. Anyways, I love. Like I said, I love history, I love historical. In fact, the house I live in was built in 1851 that I'm currently restoring. And so I do submerge myself into it. And as I discussed with you, I don't know where the story is going to go when I sit down to write, there is no telling. I get into the zone. I literally physically hear it, see it, smell it as I'm writing it. And I think visiting the sites helps with that, especially with imagery. I taught school for a really long time, and one thing that I found, especially with the young readers, is that, like I said, if they can see it and they can feel it and it's descriptive, they're more likely to buy into it, to read it and get hooked on it. And unfortunately, our younger population doesn't like to read as much much as the older population does. But they do like those documentaries.
- [09:44]
Renita Hora
Absolutely. So this is very interesting. I was going to ask you, why the physical site, why the house? Is it for inspiration or is it like you feel like you're imbibing the story just by being at the physical location of where some of it happened?
- [09:59]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
A little bit of both. But I also like to add a lot of details. I want. When people read my books, I want them to visually see what is happening. Sometimes it'll give them a nightmare and. But when. I mean, I've like. I have a friend whose wife is always saying, okay, I love your books, but I can't read them at night. I always get nightmares. And I thank her because I think I see it as a compliment.
- [10:20]
Renita Hora
Yes, that was the purpose. That was the intention. I have to ask you, Gina, are there rules when you are writing paranormal? I mean, obviously it's scary, but what. I guess what my real question is, what's the difference between paranormal, horror and mystery? Because there's overlap, but I know there was rules with these different genres.
- [10:40]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
There is overlap, but my books are good. You're going to see a lot of battles between good and evil. There are some even religious elements in there. I've even had, you know, producers, especially with the book Tony hall, say, okay, I don't know whether to put this in the horror section or to put this in the religious section. I'm dealing with the supernatural, with demons, the. The ghost. So, for example, in my book, you're going to Run across somebody that's either going to be possessed or they're going to be dealing with hauntings or they're clairvoyant. You're going to be looking at those elements. Whereas the mystery is, for example, I have a cousin that has oldest missing person case in the state of Texas. Nobody knows what happened to her. That is a mystery. That doesn't mean that a demon sent crept up from the ground and snatched her. It's just. It's a mystery she's pursued dead. Whereas with Supernatural, there is going to be that haunting element in there.
- [11:41]
Renita Hora
And is one genre more popular than the other, the supernatural versus the mystery? Because they're both spooky.
- [11:47]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
They're both spooky. But I really kind of think the supernatural is a little bit more fascinating. But I'm also looking at, like, the vampire stories, the zombie stories. Those seem to be the things that really tend, I think, to sell now, but to really grasp people's interest because they don't understand it. They can understand that maybe the Gates guy kidnapped and tortured some guy and that and he hit him and the person disappeared and it would be years before they find him. They can't necessarily understand, is this house haunted? What's going on here?
- [12:26]
Renita Hora
Yes. Yes. So would that be dark fantasy?
- [12:29]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
I think so. I think there's a lot of dark fantasy in my stories, or at least I'd like to think so. At least I know in my more recent book that I'm editing now it's probably more dark fantasy because it's dealing with covens of witches. However, I always feel like these books need to add the human element in it as well, building the characters, which is another reason for visiting the sites and doing the research.
- [12:53]
Renita Hora
And what of your own contribution do you bring into the stories? You mentioned that right up front. So is it your own personal experiences.
- [13:02]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
Or what is it my own personal experiences? I have dealt with hauntings in the past. I've worked as a paranormal investigator. And so I have been able, if you look on my social media, you'll see a lot of entities and ghosts that I have captured, even in the house that I'm currently living in. So I think I'm able to bring a lot of that and then, of course, a deeper imagination. Now, some of the more wicked and evil things in my books I have not dealt with personally. But the scary thing is they creep up into my imagination.
- [13:37]
Renita Hora
Interesting. So a paranormal investigator, how do you capture a ghost? Is it reasonable to even ask you? Is that a whole topic for another.
- [13:45]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
Episode I think it's reasonable to ask, because a lot of times it's just by chance. Sometimes I'll think I see something and I take a picture, and it's like, dang, look, they showed up here. And so I think anybody actually has the ability to do that.
- [14:00]
Renita Hora
And you can see the ghost in the picture?
- [14:02]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
Yes, absolutely. And so I'll circle them and put them on social media. But, I mean, there has been time. I mean, I've been on trips with one friend of mine that's a complete and total skeptic. I took a picture, she took a picture at the same time, and a ghost showed up in mine. She's like, I don't understand how that shows up. I pulled hers. The ghost showed up in her picture as well. So I think sometimes we just need to look at our photos a little bit more carefully, because you just don't know what you might get or who might be saying hello.
- [14:29]
Renita Hora
I have to have you back on this show where we've got to do an entire episode just about that topic. Because this idea of ghosts and souls and past. Is it true? Is it not true? Is it my mind? Is it my imagination? Is it. You know, I'm not open enough. We got to investigate that. And that's cannot happen in two minutes.
- [14:50]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
It's definitely fun, and it captures a lot of people interest, and you'll be surprised at how many people will share their stories. You'll get a lot of emails after the episode. Let me tell you about what happened. I get a lot of people that through Instagram or they'll send me video footage that they've gotten from their doorbell camera and things like that. And a lot of times they have some legit phenomena going on. Sometimes it's not, but it was something that was strong enough for them to question it.
- [15:22]
Renita Hora
And of course, for our listeners and viewers, we're gonna have links to your Instagram and everywhere we can find you online all in our show notes. So please do look out for those. Gina, you're gonna read for us for. Is this your new book? The Pied Piper's Prince?
- [15:40]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
This has actually been out for a while. What's interesting about the case with Dean Corll, besides that he's known as the Cand. He was the first person that they coined serial killer after the way he manipulated two teenage boys. There was one teenage boy that really kind of looked to him for a father figure, and then he brings in another guy. He pays these kids $200 for every boy that they bring to him. So he can rape and torture them. And this part is actually true. If you look up the guy, Dean Crowell, you'll see all of this documentary footage. The crimes that he did is absolutely horrific, probably too graphic to actually go into your show, but are definitely in the book. And somehow these boys fell into this and they were incarcerated as well. One of the boys ends up shooting and killing him because he was the guy was going after him and after he brought two of his friends. The book is actually written in three sections. One section is in the 1970s, and that part is narrated by a ghost named David that is one of his victims. But he's ID and he doesn't really quite understand that he's dead. Now, one thing that I've learned from the supernatural is that many spirits, they stay the way they were when they were alive. Even though he's in his 20s, he's very innocent. He wants to help a lot of people. And he doesn't really understand why this man does these horrible things when sometimes he can be nice because he would lure kids in with, like, candy. That's why he was known as the Candyman. Then there's another portion that takes place in 2001, and a reporter with a Pasadena Citizen, which was a real paper, she moves into the house. She is a romance novelist that is struggling, and she's got all these little issues, but she starts experiencing hauntings of what happened in the past. And so she becomes fascinated about the story and starts doing research. And then one of the sections is when the Veil between the Living and the Dead, where she meets up with David, she talks with David, and she sees what actually physically happened into the house.
- [18:08]
Renita Hora
All right, let's hear it.
- [18:10]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
So we are going to take off. And this part portion, it's within the Veil. So we're listening about when she is observing within the Veil and she is watching a scene where two people, and they, of course, I changed their names for the sake of the book. But she's seen two scenes where these kids innocently went with one of his helpers, and they realized that they're in a lot of trouble.
- [18:40]
Renita Hora
All right, well, thank you so much, Gina. And for our listeners, Gina is going to share something a little bit extra special for our paid subscribers. So if you have not hit that paid button, please do so. And before we wrap up, let our listeners and viewers know where we can find your work.
- [19:02]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
Well, you can find my work on gina linnell.com there are book trailers to my books so they can see they can have a visual to look at and there you can do an order now button. But I'm also at Barnes and Noble, I'm on Amazon, any online type of bookstore you will be able to find me. And then of course I do my public events at markets and things around Texas and the states surrounding Texas like Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.
- [19:27]
Renita Hora
Thank you so much for joining us on the True Fiction Project. That was Gina Linnell Schaefer. She is a Jefferson, Texas based writer of historical and paranormal fiction. I am your host, Renita Hora, host of the True Fiction Project.
- [19:44]
Indeed Advertisement
As humans, we're naturally driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search Match with Indeed. When I was looking to hire someone, it was so slow and overwhelming. I wish I had used Indeed. If you need to hire, you need Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed Data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Ditch the busywork. Use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. And Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster. 93% of employers agree Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites, according to a recent Indeed survey, and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com podcast. That's Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply.
- [20:45]
Renita Hora
And now to the premise of the True Fiction Project, which of course is to create fiction out of nonfiction.
- [21:05]
Gina Lynelle Schaeffer
Come join in on the party, willie says in a friendly voice like he was for real. He wanted to hang out with Tommy. He even invited Tammy, Tommy's friend, who was thinking of running away on account of her stepdad's temper. Run, run, run. What's happening? Molly whispers, looking around. This looks different. Sometimes we bounce. What do you mean we bounce? Now, growing accustomed to her dream companion, we see things happening at different times, but not necessarily in order. Then looking at the teens. That's Tommy and Tammy. Cory only wanted Tommy to come over, but Willie felt bad because she wanted to get away from home and away from her stepdad. Of course, she's never seen a temper like that of Corrie. I've seen Cory get mad even when he thought nobody was watching. But somebody is always watching. Sometimes I think it's the devil himself, poking at him, trying to get him mad. When I see Corey strangle those boys, I swear I hear a wicked laugh vibrating through the house. Corey Willy and Boozer. They don't hear it, but I do. And I know it's pure evil. Is he going to kill them? Eventually, Maybe not right now, but the playmates always die. That's the game. They have to die because it's part of the game. Molly shoulders shudders. Jeez, I wonder if I am talking in my sleep. Only pure evil causes a person to call people. You know that, trust you, come over to party, be their friend, only to leave them to a malicious torture and death. What's worse is I think Willie may have liked Tommy too. Look how pretty she is. Molly examines the girl for a moment. Long blonde hair, dark eyes, slender frame. She smiled at Willie, exposing perfect teeth. I think I would have liked to have date someone like Tammy. Molly barely heard her dream escort as Cory stomps through the house. Cory's not happy about Tommy being here. I think he likes Tommy all right. I think Tommy wasn't normally his type, seeing how he had dark hair and a tan. He likes guys like me with light hair and light eyes. Tall but not strong. He never wants anyone to be stronger than him. The two watch Corey as he grabs Willie by the collar and yells, I don't want no girl hanging out here. Girls are nothing but trouble and drama. Willie panics. Look, her dad kicked her out. She has nowhere to go and besides she's hot. Can I have someone to play with once in a while? Besides, look at her. She's gotta be out no time and then you can have your fun. Cory seemed to calm down at that and goes out to the living room, tossing a few beers at the kids. The girl missing hers tumbled to the floor beside her. Cory snorts and pulls out a box of weed and papers. Tommy and Tammy hadn't tried the stuff before, stared at him wide eyed. Stupid fools. Drugs are bad. They should listen to their moms and not some stranger they just met, Molly thought with a panicked urgency. Willie smoked and drank with them while making small talk. Corey sat back observing with an angry stare, waiting until the three passed out. That's his M.O. you know, David whispers to Molly as she watches the scene unfold. What a coward. I don't follow. Stupid piece of is such a huge guy and yet he lets drugs and booze weaken their reflexes so he can subdue them easier. Won't even let them have a chance to fight. What a pussy.
- [24:49]
Renita Hora
Here at the True Fiction Project we are always looking for great stories that make for compelling fiction. So if you have a great story or know somebody who does, or if you are a writer who would like to contribute, then please do get in touch with us@renita.com contact.
- [25:11]
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