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- [00:00]
Doyle Glass
What this is is that a Marine unit, one company of a little over 100 men, that's Mike Company, 35 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines, received an emergency call, basically a first responder call to go rescue another company of Marines that was being ambushed by the second nva. And that's the North Vietnamese Army. Vaunted, excellent veteran soldiers.
- [00:32]
Renita Hora
Welcome to the True Fiction Project, a podcast series that explores the origins of fiction. Every week we begin with an interview, nonfiction, followed by a creative piece, fiction inspired by something from the interview. The idea is to demonstrate, of course, that fiction is born out of our life experiences. Now, here's your host, storyteller, author, public speaker, health and wellness expert, Renita Hora.
- [01:02]
Welcome to the True Fiction Project. I am your host, Renita Hora. And for those of you who are regular listeners to this show, you know just how much I love history and you love history. History in all ways, shapes and forms history from any and many parts of the world. And although we often feature historical fiction, you know, from the true fiction point of view, today I've got a different kind of guest. He is joining us to talk about an actual piece of history, or should I say several pieces of history wrapped into the one anthology. This is Doyle Glass. He is a former prosecutor. He is, interestingly enough, a sculptor of two military masterpieces. We'll ask him about that. And most importantly, relevant to today. He is the author of Swift Sword, and I'm going to let him explain what his book is about. Hi, Doyle. Welcome to the True Fiction Project.
- [02:09]
Doyle Glass
Good morning. It's an honor to be here.
- [02:11]
Renita Hora
It is an honor to have you here. And Swift Sword, oh, my gosh, I have not read it yet. I've only read the intros, the blurb, the few excerpts, and all of the praise that people are giving it. I mean, it sounds fabulous. Give us a brief intro.
- [02:28]
Doyle Glass
Swift Sword is the story of 24 hours in Vietnam, the terror of combat that our soldiers faced back then in the war. And it is pretty much a microcosm told excitingly for me by the men who were there. I conducted close to 50 interviews of veterans of the battle, of the families of those who didn't come home. And what really excites me as an historian, as a writer, is that this is as factual as I think any person could ever get about what happened at this time. This slice of very important history.
- [03:13]
Renita Hora
Now, you're a former prosecutor. You've done these military sculptures. What led you to writing in general? And this specific project, it's so specific, fascinating, that's a great question.
- [03:26]
Doyle Glass
Gave up my career as a criminal prosecutor, which I did enjoy a lot going on in my life, needed to make the change. I'm also a creative person, so art was very important to me. History was also my other passion. So in the early 2000s, I created two monuments sculpted out of bronze. The first one, the Kentucky Medal of Honor Memorial in Louisville, Kentucky. And it's a life size bronze sculpture of a Medal of Honor recipient from Kentucky. And then a Texas Medal of Honor Memorial, same concept, a Medal of Honor recipient from Texas. The stories that I learned about from creating those sculptures and from my reading led me to writing. It's like there's so many heroes, so many great stories, you can't put them into one sculpture. That's great, but it was more. It was limiting. And I said, I need to tell stories and I need to tell true ones and with a creative bent. So that led me to Swift Sword. And I've written another book, Lions of Medina, also about Vietnam, a similar concept, interviewing the men that were there. In the 90s and the early 2000s, we celebrated our greatest generation, our World War II generation, as we should. Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, lots of books. And if you look at Band of Brothers, you see interviews of these veterans before you go into the. The filming of the story. Those interviews of those veterans are incredibly moving. Those men are no longer with us. A light bulb went off. I said, I grew up during the Vietnam War. I remember the newscasts. I remember, you know, the young men going off, the protests. I said, we need to do that for Vietnam. This is my time in my generation. And there are no stories about. We have movies with political bent, but no real stories, legacy, true stories about what happened. And I said, this is my job, so this is what I have to do. And so I started looking and interviewing and that's why we're here today.
- [05:39]
Renita Hora
It's amazing, and it's a really good point that you bring up that there were these movies but no documented true stories. Why do you think that is? Do you think it's just that the pain of that time, so long and extended, means that, I don't know, people didn't want to put it down on pen and paper or. What are your thoughts?
- [06:03]
Doyle Glass
The Vietnam War was very, very painful time for our country. For the men coming back and protests. Obviously the war didn't end as planned. I think people wanted to forget it and they wanted to move on. Where, you know, World War II ended with we saved the world for democracy type thing. We, you know, defeated Hitler. So there was more of a celebratory tone, I guess for World War II. But in Vietnam we wanted to forget it. I remember it. I mean, people didn't want to talk about it. You had movies that Forrest Gump or Platoon that kind of set a tone and were fine, but it didn't go to honoring those veterans and telling their real stories, the real stories like we should have. And I felt that there was a huge gap in our historical record. And here's the other key point. These men are passing. When they pass, their stories go with them. And that legacy is not safeguarded and preserved for future generations. Both of these books, I would say half of the veterans have already passed away. But for those interviews 15 years ago, their stories would be gone.
- [07:21]
Renita Hora
And this is, I mean you have just hit the nail on the head. I always say all we have at the end of the day and at the beginning of it or the next one is story. Because what do you leave with? Nothing. What do you come with? Nothing. Right. Age old words from Mahatma Gandhi. But the one thing that does remain is story, legacy, even tangible material legacy may or may not last. But the story of it or the stories attached to it, I should say those, you don't want those just to be whispers in the wind, because again, that's all we have. So it's fascinating to think about the research that you did and I would love to ask you how you even began to find these guys. How did you go about it? How did you just consolidate this very big project?
- [08:17]
Doyle Glass
That's a great question. And I'll focus on Swift Sword, the book we're talking about. I would describe it to building a three dimensional puzzle with pieces that you don't have. So you don't know the full story, you don't know what you're going to get, you don't know what those pieces are. You don't know what pieces you have to discard for whatever reason. So like looking in sand for the pieces and then finding where they fit. Not flat, but three dimensionally. So that started with the Internet emails, contacting people, seeing who wanted to speak. Gaining these veterans trust was vitally important, that their message was preserved and told as they want it and as they experienced it. A lot of the men would not talk because their experiences were too painful. A lot of the men that did talk, the experiences were very painful. But they knew that their story and the story of their friends that didn't come home long lost, they knew that those had to be preserved because to your point, as you just said, whispers in the wind, a name on a wall. Just a name. Nothing to go with that lost young man of 17 or 18 years old. So starting with the veterans and then starting with an interview, and then finding what's relevant in that interview, it was daunting. It took both books several years to find all the veterans, interview them. And I remember cassette recording on a landline telephone, and I would push a recording player to record the interview. And because of my law background, I knew court reporters. So I would send the tape to a court reporter to have it all transcribed and a little anecdote. Swift Sword is a second edition. The first edition was written at the time. My wife was terminally ill and we had a small child. I could not put complete focus on the book in order to care for my wife and child. Put that away. Came back 10 years later thinking, this book isn't finished. It's not done. It doesn't tell the story. I found all of those interviews in my email, preserved in transcript form after a decade of life. And I was able to take those words of men who are no longer here, but that was preserved in the cloud, and was able to put those words into my former transcript last year and create a whole new living legacy book that I'm. I'm really proud of that took 20 years, really, with a big break in the middle, to create what it is. And the men speak from those interviews through the book.
- [11:06]
Renita Hora
And what really strikes me, Doyle, is obviously these stories are fascinating. You know, that you started this project. But other people are equally entranced by these stories. Your newsletter list, which is how I got connected to you in the first place, is something huge, amazing. 340,000 or something like that. Who are these readers, do you know? I mean, obviously they're fascinated by what you've written.
- [11:34]
Doyle Glass
A lot of the readers, that's another great question. A lot of the readers are the Vietnam generation. The men that were there, the women, their families, their children, their nieces and nephews. They want to know what Grandpa went through. Grandpa may not be here anymore, or he may not want to talk. And they want to know what that was like. And they know that what they hear or read and see may not be, you know, really the nuggets, the truth of real experience of what it was like to fight in Vietnam. And people are, I think, very concerned about losing these stories. And the stories are the legacy, and they're so easy to be lost. So I think that's the real reason behind it, is that People want to know our collective history as a country, but more importantly, these individuals, these men that went and fought and did this.
- [12:30]
Renita Hora
Well, I cannot wait to hear your reading because I know that you've picked a select reading for us. Can you set that up for us?
- [12:40]
Doyle Glass
The first word that I would use about battle in Vietnam is chaos and confusion. And this first reading will show that what would often happen to our soldiers and Marines, they were always outnumbered. And this battle occurred in September of 1967 in the Khe Sanh Valley of South Vietnam, a region that's rich with grain and agriculture. It's a rural area. Marine units would go out to patrol and secure areas, but because they were few in number, they would have to leave what they just fought for what they young men died for. What this is, is that a Marine unit? One company of a little over 100 men, that's Mike Company 3 5, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines received an emergency call, basically a first responder call, to go rescue another company of Marines that was being ambushed by the second nva. That's the North Vietnamese army, vaunted, excellent veteran soldiers. So my company, the book that's written about, was sent to rescue the other company. On the way to rescuing that other company, they then become ambushed. And suddenly a company of, like I say, 100 plus men is suddenly surrounded by thousands, literally, estimations of a 4 to 5 to 1 ratio of being outnumbered by North Vietnamese soldiers who are so expertly camouflaged in this valley that the Marines can't see them. They, well, they walked into an ambush. Somebody saw a foot and then it lit up like a beehive or a hornet's nest. That's what some of the men described. So what I'm going to read is the middle of this company being ambushed on a knoll. It's a, you know, small hill out in the open with a lot of brush and shrubs. And these North Vietnamese troops are moving, assaulting the Marines. Highly camouflaged, they can't see them. Almost a perfectly well timed ambush. And it's, this is the Marine response to trying to. Basically, we all know the story of Custer and the Little Bighorn. He tried to create a perimeter, a circle, circle the wagons type thing to keep from being ambushed. If the soldiers pierce that perimeter, the men are gone, they're dead. So they have to circle the wagons, keep that perimeter a circle intact, or they're all gone, every one of them. So it's a very dire, dire, chaotic, confusing situation. And I think that that's what the reader will hear and Then you'll see the gallantry, the bravery in the instance of these young men as they fought for their comrades, for their buddy.
- [15:42]
Renita Hora
So such an important piece of history, and it's really a contribution to the legacy of so much of what has happened in this country and what war means.
- [15:53]
Doyle Glass
Thank you. But I truly want to thank these veterans who trusted me to tell their story. That's where the thanks really needs to come from. And that was terrifying and confusing and chaotic. And we need. We need to know, to your point, we need to know what they went through. And like I said, it's their legacy. And I really want to thank them for trusting us, you and me, to tell their story. And thank you for what you're doing.
- [16:20]
Renita Hora
And unfortunately, we've reached the end of our time, so before we close up shop, let our listeners know and our viewers, of course, where they can find your work. Social media, anything that you would like to share?
- [16:34]
Doyle Glass
Oh, absolutely. Obviously, my website, doyleglass.com the book is available on Amazon, Swift Sword social media, Facebook, Instagram, and I'd like to also mention that December 16th through the 21st, we're really going to honor these men during that time period. That's a week we set aside to run a special on the book, both ebooks and the print version, to preserve their legacy and to really kind of shine the light during that period on our Vietnam veterans. So I want to point that out as well.
- [17:10]
Renita Hora
Thank you so much, Doyle.
- [17:12]
Doyle Glass
Thank you very much. It's been an honor.
- [17:14]
Renita Hora
That is Doyle Glass. He is a former criminal prosecutor who has written a series of wonderful books, two of them about Vietnam. And today we specifically focused on swift sword. So December 16th to 21st, everyone, this is when Doyle would really like to honor those heroes. So do listen to this episode, do look out for his further stories, do go to his website and do send us some comments and tell us what you think. And now to the premise of the True Fiction project, which of course is to create fiction out of non fiction.
- [18:11]
Doyle Glass
Get online. Peter shouted. Everybody move up. Move up. Peter's two squads began to form a line facing the enemy positions to the north. The terrain at the base of the knoll consisted of a small grouping of trees, open fields beyond, and another large cluster of woods farther out. The NVA were using the farther woods to provide supporting fire for their troops attacking 1st platoon at the front. With Sergeant Sullivan's leathernecks in danger of being overrun, there was no time to assess the strength of the enemy in the far woods. There was only time to act. We were ordered 2nd Platoon Commander Lieutenant Blacksmith said, to go around the knoll and envelop the trail. Tree line, gun ammo up. As the order came down the line, PFC Martinez, carrying two bandoliers of M60ammunition, ran forward to one of the two machine gun teams. I delivered the ammo, and then I turned to my 2 o'clock and noticed that Sergeant Peters had started to string the squad to the right of the knoll. Once the two squads had leaked up, Peters led them forward into the open field between the base of the knoll and the far cluster of woods, with Clark and Duca's machine guns providing covering fire. We shouldn't do this. Someone shouted. We're going to be sitting ducks. I remember there were tree lines on our left, tree lines on our right, and such a wide open area, Dukas said. We were pretty much in straight line, advancing forward. As the marines entered the open field, enemy guns, most likely 7.62 millimeter RPD machine guns of Soviet design and AK47s, opened up on Sgt. Peters. Men from the far tree line, keep moving. Peter shouted. Keep moving. And then came the mortars. As they were stringing us out on a line in the open to assault, Martinez said, I heard the first explosion, which was a mortar round at the very end of the line of marines. I noticed another one go off and another. They were walking mortars down the line. As bullets poured, poured in, enemy mortars began to reign in on the two reinforced squads. The range zeroed in and the fire deadly accurate. One round taking out an entire Marine fire team. I remember seeing mackenzie, Martinez said, an FNG I had gotten to the unit with at the same time go down with one of the first mortar rounds that went off in about 30 seconds. Lober said, Manfra, good luck. Myself and Steve Black, Blackwood. We're at the very top of the knoll firing as fast as we could at the enemy mortar positions to the east. This is when I saw the chaplain run behind us going to the northeast. In less than a minute, we had fired all our rockets, and Sergeant Peters was screaming for us and the rest of the 2nd Platoon to take up positions on the right flank. As Corporal Nunes and Young crested the small hill, a hidden machine gun about 25 yards yards away raked them. Nunes heard three sharp pops from an RPD, a light automatic weapon of Russian design, and saw Young drop to the ground with blood and his utilities just under the waist. Nunes unbuckled Young's pants and found three bullet holes in the front of his hips, his pelvis shattered. Corpsman Hospital Corpsman Armando Leal, one of the Navy Corpsmen attached to 2nd Platoon, was immediately on the scene and after a quick examination, applied a battle dressing. Thankfully, there was little bleeding, but there was no way to repair the pelvis on the battlefield. There's nothing else I can do right now. With another cry for a corpsman, Doc Leo ran up the side of the knoll. Nunes squeezed his friend's hands. This is your trip out of here. You're going to make it. You're going home to see Patty and your new son. Corporal Nunes gave Young's hand one last squeeze and ran to catch up the second squad. As he led his men forward, shrapnel slammed into Sergeant Peter's face and neck, and a short time later he took a bullet in the leg. As the mortars became a barrage and the enemy automatic rifle fire continued unabated, the Marine advance began to stall. With the exception of Sergeant Peters, most of the Leathernix hit the deck for whatever non existent cover they could find. I was really afraid to move, that's Corporal Elliot, Rubenfeld said. I remember hearing crying, a lot of crying and yelling. I saw Marines fall, martinez said. And after about the third or fourth motor round going off, someone yelled fall back. I remember mortars coming in and we kept having to move back, move back, tightening up and tightening up, dukas said. The perimeter is too wide. I could still in my head today, you're too far apart, you're too far apart. Attacking from the front, the NVA swung hard and slammed into the Marines right flank. Outnumbered five to one, the Leathernecks now faced withering fire from two directions. The NVA were suddenly poised to roll up the thin American line, breach the company perimeter and destroy the Marines piecemeal. The ambush had been nearly perfect.
- [23:13]
Renita Hora
Here at the True Fiction Project, we are always looking for great stories that make for compelling fiction. So if you have a great story or know somebody who does, or if you are a writer who would like to contribute, then please do get in touch with us at renita.com forward/contact.
- [23:35]
Thank you for listening Listening to the True Fiction Project with Renita Hora. Be sure to subscribe to the newsletter to receive more inspiring stories showing how fiction is born from our everyday experiences. For more information, visit www.TrueFictionProject.com.