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- [00:00]
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- [00:54]
Rachana Devi Dayal
So I joined one of these classes and I realized that every time we showed up our sketchbook on the screen I was sort of kind of ignored or they would sort of just brush past me. And then I just said hey, like what's going on here? And she said, the teacher said to me, what are you doing here? You don't need to be in a class. Please go off and paint. And that's sort of when the penny dropped or sort of the rock dropped in my head and I was like, hey, I can do this. It was like somebody had injected like a pint of confidence in my head.
- [01:26]
Renita Hora
Welcome to the True Fiction Project, a podcast series that explores the origins of fiction. Every week we begin with an interview nonfiction followed by a creative piece, fiction inspired by something from the interview. The idea is to demonstrate of course, that fiction is born out of our life experiences. Now here's your host, storyteller, author, public speaker, health and wellness expert, Renita Hora.
- [01:56]
Welcome back to the True Fiction Project. This is your host, Rinita Ahora and I am thrilled to introduce today's guest. She is a very, very old and very dear friend of mine. I've known her since our childhood. This is Rachana Devi Dayal. She formerly trained as a graphic designer, but more exciting than that, she is an artist. A full fledged artist. Hi Rachna. Great to have you on the show.
- [02:23]
Rachana Devi Dayal
Hello. Lovely to see you and chit chat with you today.
- [02:27]
Renita Hora
I'm so excited to be talking with you. Not just because you are such an old and dear friend, but your story is fascinating. I've been talking to you more and more in bits and pieces about your personal story and love seeing how it is evolving into your work. So before we go into that share with Our audience a little bit about your background as a graphic designer to artist and sort of what got you here.
- [02:55]
Rachana Devi Dayal
So I had a very formal and fancy and rigorous training as a graphic designer back in the early 90s. I went to college called the Rhode Island School of Design. I always wanted to be a graphic designer, There was no doubt about that. And that's what I trained to be. However, always had like a little soft spot, I would say, for painting and exploring the so called fine art medium. But I stayed very clear of it because my mom's a painter. And I thought, let's keep that box for her and let me be a graphic designer. And so I did that. So from 1994 till about it was the beginning of the lockdown, so we're saying 20, 2021 that I focused entirely in graphic design, designing books, brochures, what you call editorial design. And I say that I sort of excelled in that. I know the inside of the anatomy of a book probably better than my own. And so that's what I did for almost 30 years. And I always had this thing at the back of my head, oh, I really wish I could paint. I really want to paint. And used to collect art materials and go to lovely art shops and they just sort of stacked up and built up in my studio at home. Come 2021, when the whole world was on zoom classes and doing everything online, I happened to be talking to a friend and she was doing a watercolor class online. And she said. And I was like, hey, that's really cool and I would love to do it and what do I do? And she said, why don't you join? So I joined one of these classes and I realized that every time we showed up our sketchbook on the screen, I was sort of kind of ignored, or they would sort of just brush past me. And then I just said, hey, like, what's going on here? And she said, the teacher said to me, what are you doing here? You don't need to be in a class. Please go off and paint. And that's sort of when the penny dropped or sort of the rock dropped in my head. And I was like, hey, I can do this. It was like somebody had injected like a pint of confidence in my head. And I just said, let's go with this. And that was the really initial seeds of my journey as a painter exactly three years ago. That really is my story in as concise a nutshell as is possible.
- [05:14]
Renita Hora
You mentioned earlier that your mother is a painter and of course you come from this Family of very strong women. Aside from your mother. Your elder sister Namita, who is also a dear old friend. She is a musician and a writer. Your younger sister Gauri is a culinary entrepreneur. I have always had great admiration for the Devi Dayal sisters. Each of you more creative and successful than the next. Why is it that you felt that you needed to follow a different path to that of your mother?
- [05:47]
Rachana Devi Dayal
Sometimes just the things that you want to do, you can't put them on hold for too long and they just catch up with you. And it got harder as I waited because, I mean, if one is to fall into the trap of being compared with siblings, then both of them have been in their respective fields so well over a decade. And so they started off much younger. And I thought, how can I possibly enter this crazy competitive space at the age of 49, three years ago and even, you know, start to start a whole kind of life direction? And it's such a judged space, the art world. And I just had to do it. And fortunately, I mean, all my formal, so called formal training at Rhode island really helped because I had, you know, learned the basics of composition and color and whatever, no matter what medium I chose, I could use it anywhere. So I just thought, you know what? Grin and bear, just go for it. And the mum thing and me being her daughter and the whole mother daughter thing didn't help. But. And it still doesn't help because, you know, she often comes over and critiques my work and I'm thinking, oh God, what's going to come out this time? But it's a space that I've walked into and I just have to embrace whatever is really thrown at me. So, yeah, here I am painting away every single day and it gives me great joy. And I think that's probably the sole driving force for being in this new sort of career path that I've taken.
- [07:12]
Renita Hora
Well, Rachna, who says that life doesn't begin at 50? I'm not saying it was exactly 50 for you, but we're age wise contemporaries and the pandemic was a few years ago. So tell me about your personal journey and how we see it in your painting. I know you've talked about your struggles, you've talked about your personal story being reflected in your work, and I think you specifically mentioned your current projects that that is more apparent than ever. So please share.
- [07:43]
Rachana Devi Dayal
The current project I'm working on, it's to do with this river which flows in central India from east to west. It's the only river which flows in that Direction. It's called the Narmada. And just to clarify here, people often, you know, think the Ganges is the sacredest, the most holiest river in the country, when actually they're mistaken. And this river is way older, way more sacred. And the saying goes that you have to take a holy dip in the Ganges to purify your sins. Whereas with the Narmada, you have to merely look at it and your sins get purified. And this river runs deep and strong, and the sacred, you know, aspects to it are just immeasurable. And it's just sort of came to me one day, and I was. I've been doing projects in the region, and I just said, I have to explore the sacred aspects of this river through my art. And it's sort of tied in with the concept. I mean, it's a literal metaphor is, you know, being in the flow and it's the river, but it really actually is that. And when I get into that thing of ideating on a particular concept for the river, it just comes. And I work from photographs, and I work from all kinds of mediums, and I'm about to actually go there for a celebration, but it's just there within me. And I don't know how else to sort of describe it. I just take a concept about the river, and then I just break it down into several layers and build it up in an artwork. The medium could be whatever. It could be a collage, it could be semi digital, watercolor, whatever. So it's just one of those things which takes shape. It's a weird thing to say, but I pretty much ask the subject that I do in all my artwork, like, what do you want to be? Like, it's. I'm just the channel, and I'm just, you know, taking you flowing you from source to sort of finish. So that's kind of how I work. It's almost your journeying with the river and flowing with the river in your sort of flow of creating the paintings.
- [09:36]
Renita Hora
I love that. And I love the fact that you sort of ask the subject what it wants to say to the world and that you are the channel that is so powerful.
- [09:46]
Rachana Devi Dayal
It's just this thing of separating your ego, and it's not forcing it. I want to do this. I want to put red, and I want to make it a watercolor. It's sometimes not the right thing for that particular painting. I've always asked. On some level, I don't sit there and say what you want to be, but kind of let the direction flow from sort of within and let it. And I'm using my skill and expertise and then just carrying it through and you know, creating the, the finished piece. That's always how I work.
- [10:13]
Renita Hora
So I have to ask you firstly, how did you pick this particular topic? I mean it's a highly contested river. Maybe not the river so much as the man made dams that have been constructed to harness its flow. There's been a lot of press about that. Arundhati Roy perhaps is the most known activist in connection with these dams or against these dams. Why did you pick this?
- [10:37]
Rachana Devi Dayal
It literally came to me and I thought, hang on, there's this thing, people get downloads and I thought, you know what, this could be utter rubbish or just stay with it and if it lasts then it's for real and it's never left me. And there are days when it's really palpable and I've really sort of tuned into the frequency of the river and what she's about and going back to the. So that there were two dams, the Sardar Sarova and the Indira Sagar river dams which were built and yes, they were highly controversial. I'm going to talk about that in a future painting. And I was reading this book and there was this woman who was doing the whole journey, it's called the Pari Pramaf. Around the river, from left to right and around. And I've done half of that as well. And she met sort of this holy man and this was way back at the time when the controversy was really sort of hot. And he just sort of said to her, you know the river, she doesn't like to be held back and she doesn't like to be damned and she'll find a way out. That's just how, how she is as a force of nature. And this woman listened to this man and thought, okay, well that's what he has to say about it. And then further along in her journey she happened to have a conversation with an engineer and they were talking about this and that and he said, you know, it's really funny but the best engineers and the best technicians have been sourced to build this dam. But they have found leaks and cracks already quite early on in the project and the water is seeping through. And this woman, she said at that point she felt goosebumps and she just said what that holy spiritual man said like 20 days ago, just literally bubbled up to the surface. So there are all these days, yes, the river has been dammed and soil erosion has taken place and tribals have been displaced. But she is a force to be reckoned with and she will continue to be. And she will flow out. And there's. There's a whole very female energy aspect to the river and that cannot do anything but dominate. I mean, last year, for example, during the monsoons, the river just flooded beyond belief. And this is all sort of repercussions of damning and mismanagement and not opening the right gates the right time. So the river is going to be a river for as long as there's going to be a river. So there's. Then that's sort of another aspect. It's a very divine female force. I mean, then there's a whole story of how the river originated. But when you actually go there, it really is truly a magical experience. And to see, you know, the devotion, because it's real, it's palpable.
- [13:07]
Renita Hora
This is fascinating, Rachana, because I know bits and pieces of your story. And even as you describe this to me, I'm beginning to understand that the river perhaps is a metaphor for you as an artist and your art.
- [13:21]
Rachana Devi Dayal
Absolutely, absolutely. Which is probably why it can't leave me, because I'm actually growing. I'm flowing or growing with it. So I've realized that. And I even think that what I'm. The work I'm doing is what I may well be what I call a slow burn because it's part of my own journey. But you know what? I can't force it to be anything that it's not going to be or what it's not meant to be. So you're absolutely right.
- [13:45]
Renita Hora
You said that the river is going to be a river for as long as it's going to be a river. In the same way, your art is going to be your art for as long as you're an artist. And you are an artist. So I have to ask you then, what is the dam in your life story?
- [14:02]
Rachana Devi Dayal
The dam is my own self, really. And all the kind of conclusions I draw about how I want my journey as an artist to be. And this is how it should be. Those are dams, which, I mean, we all have our own dams in our head and they restrict us from going ahead to where we're supposed to be going ahead. Artists may put up more because you know, your extra sensitized space because you're trying to receive information and impart art. And so the dams are probably thicker, but you kind of have to just accept them and use them.
- [14:32]
Renita Hora
So this is interesting to hear you say that you've built your own barriers, almost self sabotage in a way. We all do this. Is it also fair to say that there has been nothing else that has created these barriers along the way in your life journey?
- [14:49]
Rachana Devi Dayal
So I think the dams have been entirely self created or just been there without my knowledge. And it's only when you build an awareness that I can go forward. And why is this there? Let's just reinvent, reinventing your own narrative. If you try a little bit and you have a minor success, the dams kind of fall apart and maybe new dams come across as you kind of progress. And they're different dams, I call them challenges. So I want create a certain amount of quantity of work before I even approach a gallerist. So, you know, they keep the barriers keep shifting and the goal posts now there are more goalposts than barriers or dams. So that's a little bit more of a relief than before I even started as an artist.
- [15:32]
Renita Hora
Amazing. So with this particular podcast, the True Fiction Project, what we typically do is this interview, which is the nonfiction portion. And then one of our fiction writers, either myself or somebody from our roster of fiction writers, will create a fictional piece based upon something from this interview. However, your example is something different. This is visual art. So of course, in our show notes, we are going to include pictures of your paintings, whatever you provide us. But I wonder if you could talk us through the story of each painting, the first, the second, and then the third, even if it's a work in progress, so that we can really understand, understand the journey of this project.
- [16:37]
Rachana Devi Dayal
This one painting which comes to mind, which is of this huge puja, this huge religious ceremony that is taking place at night, and there's a gigantic candle or group of candles being lit and being swirled around by these devotees. And it's night and it's colorful clothing on people and there's smoke and fire. And I've taken that and sort of extracted it quite graphically. And this is where my design probably comes into play. And it's from colorful and smoky, it's now a monotone and it takes on a whole different space of just black and white and smoke. And it gets very haunting and it goes into a different layer altogether. And in this piece, and probably across a lot of pieces, is it's okay to say this is what I want to say, but it's more important to say this is how I want the viewer to feel. And so you have to kind of really tap into more than just straightforward communication, which is actually what I think graphic, designed to be and actually evoke an emotion in the view. And so this painting is haunting and it started off as a colorful sort of religious ceremony at night into a very haunting kind of space.
- [17:49]
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- [19:02]
Rachana Devi Dayal
Another painting that I have done There's a ritual which takes place in a particular town called Maheshwar, and they prepare this board of little mounds of clay, and it's supposed to be a grain of rice in each mound, and it's supposed to symbolize praying for the wealth of each of the inhabitants of that town. So it's whatever 200 or 300 little mounds on this board and a prayer set, and it's floated down the river. And so I just extracted that whole concept into one piece. Again, it has a graphical element to it from my training, but it also has this deep devotion and this deep kind of sincerity. And it's a daily ritual. It means so much to this group of priests, metaphorically form it every single day of the year and then float this board of little rice and clay mounds in the river. And then I've done something completely pop, which is a walking process. This is part of the river which has the most fantastically kitsch, colorful boats on it. And I'm taking that, working with that and just making it so pop. And it's still a work in progress. I don't know how it's going to end up, but I might just put elements of the plastic flowers around the river so I can't stay with the beginning, middle and end of that. So those are three works of art that come immediately to mind, and there are others which are always growing in my head and more will come out.
- [20:44]
Renita Hora
So of these three paintings focused on the Narmada river, at least two of them have this devotional focus. Now you started off, they all they all do. They all do.
- [20:57]
Rachana Devi Dayal
On some level or the other, they all do.
- [21:00]
Renita Hora
So you started off saying that this is perhaps the most sacred river in India, more so than the Ganga, even, which we all think of as the most sacred river. Why did you choose for that to be the focus of your subject?
- [21:16]
Rachana Devi Dayal
I was already doing a project in Madhya Pradesh, which is the state where it flows, and I was hanging out around the river, near the river, walking on something completely different, and it just wouldn't leave me. And I often say people get downloads and all this of thing, and sometimes it's just like a passing wind which enters your head kind of thing, but it really actually wouldn't leave me. And I thought, you know what if something is going to haunt me, it's worth paying attention to. I don't mean haunt in the spooky sense, but if something is really kind of not leaving your side, then there's something more to it and it requires your attention and you have to kind of give yourself to it and devote and have the back and forth that's required in any sort of relationship. It's definitely. It's there to stay for some time and will probably, you know, be very much a part of my artistic journey.
- [22:06]
Renita Hora
Well, thank you so much, Rachna. I cannot wait to see pictures of these paintings and also your work in progress, whatever you share for us to include in the show notes. Is there anything else you'd like to say to our listeners? Or if not, where can we find your work? Please do share your details.
- [22:28]
Rachana Devi Dayal
It's on my Instagram handle, not this project, because the way it works is you don't sort of show off your work until it's already out there in a public space because it's. It kind of hold it sacred to yourself. And then once it's, you know, in a show or whatever, then people can see it and comment. But it's very close to my heart, so it's not in a public domain. But my other work prior to this is available on my Instagram to be seen on my Instagram handle, which is my name, Rachana Devi Dal. It's my full name. It's Rachna Devi Dayal. That's it.
- [22:59]
Renita Hora
Rachna Devi Dayal. And that is spelled R A C H A N A A C H.
- [23:04]
Rachana Devi Dayal
A N A D E V I D A Y A L. One word.
- [23:08]
Renita Hora
Fantastic. Well, we'll definitely include that in the show notes. And Rachna, such a pleasure to speak with you today.
- [23:14]
Rachana Devi Dayal
Wonderful to chat with you, Reni thank you so much.
- [23:18]
Renita Hora
Thank you my dear old friend from childhood, Rachana Devi Dayal who is a profound artist and really creating art that brings meaning not just to her life but to all of ours as well. This is the True Fiction Project and I am your host Rinita Hora. Here at the True Fiction Project we are always looking for great stories that make for compelling fiction. So if you have a great story or know somebody who does, or if you are a writer who would like to contribute, then please do get in touch with us@renita.com contact.
- [24:00]
Thank you for listening to the True Fiction Project with Renita Hora. Be sure to subscribe to the newsletter to receive more inspiring stories showing how fiction is born from our everyday experiences. For more information, visit www.TrueFictionProject.com.
- [24:24]
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