S7 Ep 10 - The Last Spirits of Manhattan

Summary

True Fiction Project — S7 Ep10: The Last Spirits of Manhattan

Host: Reenita Hora
Guest: John McDermott (author, professor)
Date: March 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the intersection of personal history and fictional storytelling through John McDermott’s debut novel, The Last Spirits of Manhattan. The work, rooted in a real family anecdote involving Alfred Hitchcock, morphs into a supernatural historical fiction centered on a haunted Manhattan mansion. Reenita and John dive deep into the creative process, challenges of writing historical fiction, personal stakes, and the blend of research and imagination. The episode culminates in John reading from his book's evocative prologue, which introduces listeners to the ghostly character "Snug."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin of the Story

• Real-Life Inspiration
  • John’s mother told him a story about her great aunt's Manhattan house, which was rented by Alfred Hitchcock for a spooky party in 1956.
  • “Her great aunt's house in Manhattan was rented by Alfred Hitchcock for a party… Of course, she was dead by that time... So Hitchcock rented it for an evening and invited all his friends.” — John McDermott [00:30]
• The house was abandoned, no family wanted it, and it was known for its eerie ambiance.

2. Blending Fact and Fiction

• Research & Poetic License
  • John dove into historical research, reading biographies of Hitchcock and other notable guests (e.g., Henry Fonda, Charles Addams).
  • “I love research. I love reading. So I threw myself into it. I tried to get the spirit of Hitchcock correct. But I certainly invented a lot of the plot.” — John [06:34]
  • He openly acknowledges inventing significant plot elements, especially the supernatural aspects.
• Navigating Permissions and Accuracy
  • Issues arose with using an actual ad Hitchcock placed—untangling permissions proved so complex he instead wrote a fictitious ad:
    • “We were going to run the ad, and then at the very last minute, some lawyers stepped in and said, you know what? Maybe we don't want to mess with these permissions. So the ad that you actually see in the published book I invented...” — John [07:14-08:27]
• Moral Responsibility When Portraying Real People
  • He strove to treat historical figures with humanity, even when showing their flaws, and recognizes both the necessity and challenge of "poetic license."
    • “The not nice things are what give us plot... trying to capture the spirit of what I thought the person was really like, treating them with some humanity...” — John [08:59]

3. Book Summary & Supernatural Elements

• At the party, ghosts—drawn from John’s own family history—appear, becoming “party crashers.”
  • “The guest list expands to the afterlife... The ghosts I use are primarily ghosts from my actual family history.” — John [10:15]
• Main characters Carolyn Banks (based on John's mother) and Pete d’Onofrio (a fictional ad copywriter) must keep these ghosts at bay, unbeknownst to the living celebrity guests.

4. Personal & Creative Motivations

• Why Supernatural?
  • John hadn’t previously written supernatural fiction, but the haunted party concept and his love for Manhattan inspired him to explore the genre.
    • “The ghosts just popped up. Honestly, it was research. And I said, hey, it's a spooky party. Let's really make it the real deal.” — John [12:32]
• The Writer’s Journey
  • Although a poet and short story writer, John describes the long, winding road to finishing a novel successfully—The Last Spirits of Manhattan is his fourth novel manuscript, but his first sold and published novel.
  • “I was laboring away in the mines of long form fiction... I would say about a 20 year attempt. This book... took me about four years to write.” — John [13:17]
• Advice on Publishing
  • Success came from persistence, preparation, and serendipity.
    • “The only thing you can control is the writing... Everything else is sort of the roulette wheel.” — John [14:07]

5. Book Publication & Where to Find John

• Book published October 2025, available through independent stores (bookshop.org), major retailers, John’s website (johnamcdermot.net), Simon & Schuster, Instagram, and more. [14:35-14:52]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It goes back, what, to the 18th century? The marriage plot. Right? Dear reader, I married him. I guess we have to thank people like Jane Austen.” — John McDermott [05:48]
• “The guest list expands to the afterlife and the ghosts I use are primarily ghosts from my actual family history...” — John [10:15]
• “The not nice things are what give us plot. Right. So I wanted to be mindful of trying to capture the spirit of what I thought the person was really like, treating them with some humanity, that they may have made mistakes, but we've all made mistakes...” — John [08:59]
• “I always tell my students that the only thing you can control is the writing and that everything else is sort of the roulette wheel.” — John [14:07]
• “The ghosts just popped up... And I said, hey, it's a spooky party. Let's really make it the real deal.” — John [12:32]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:30: John introduces the real-life Hitchcock connection
• 04:00: Discussing the process of adapting real events and people into fiction
• 06:34: Navigating permissions and inventing the party’s advertising ad
• 08:59: Addressing moral and creative responsibility in portraying real figures with flaws
• 10:15: Explanation of the book’s supernatural and family ghost elements
• 13:17: John details his long journey to publication and writing process
• 14:07: Advice for writers (“control the writing, the rest is chance”)
• 15:30: John reads the prologue from The Last Spirits of Manhattan — introduction to the ghost “Snug” [16:42-18:56]

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Fiction Segment: Reading from The Last Spirits of Manhattan

16:42 – 18:56:
John reads the prologue, "The Blue Girl," introducing listeners to the ghost "Snug" who haunts the Manhattan house:

"The Blue Girl was dead. Her name was Isabella, but everyone she remembered called her Snug... The history of the house clung to the plaster in dirty shadows..."
(See transcript [16:42–18:56] for full excerpt)

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Conclusion

Through an engaging blend of family lore, meticulous research, supernatural inventiveness, and candid reflection on the writer’s craft, John McDermott and Reenita Hora provide a fascinating look at how everyday stories inspire compelling fiction. The account of how a Hitchcock party in a deserted Manhattan mansion became a multi-layered ghost story offers both aspiring writers and lovers of fiction insight, amusement, and inspiration.

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For more information, to submit stories, or get involved, listeners are invited to visit reenita.com/podcasts/true-fiction-project and johnamcdermot.net.

Transcript

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[John McDermott]

The book is based on an actual event that my mother told me about when I was a young guy. Her great aunt's house in Manhattan was rented by Alfred Hitchcock for a party in 1956. He wanted a spooky place to throw a party, and her house fit the bill. Of course, she was dead by that time and the house had fallen into kind of disrepair and nobody in the family wanted to buy it. So Hitchcock rented it for an evening and invited all his friends.

[Renita Hora (Intro/Outro)]

Welcome to the True Fiction Project, a podcast series that explores the origins of fiction. Every week, we begin with an interview, nonfiction, followed by a creative piece, fiction inspired by something from the interview. The idea is to demonstrate, of course, that fiction is born out of our life experiences. Now, here's your host, storyteller, author, public speaker, health and wellness expert, Renita Hora.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Welcome to the True Fiction Project. I am your host, Renita Hora, and for those of you who are regular listeners, you know how much I love anything spooky. So we have a spooky story. I'm hoping it's going to be a spooky story to talk about today. This is a debut novel by our guest, John McDermott, who was previously in a previous life, an actor, bartender, house painter, and ad copywriter. Hi, John. Welcome to the True Fiction Project.

[John McDermott]

Hi, Renita. Thank you for having me.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Thank you for joining us. And you were born and raised in Madison, Wisconsin, but you live in. And I don't even want to pronounce

[John McDermott]

the word because it's Nacogdoches, Texas.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Nacogdoches. I mean, what does that mean?

[John McDermott]

That's a great question. I am not exactly sure what Nacogdoches means. There is another town about an hour east of us called Natchitoches, Louisiana. And supposedly Nacogdoches is the, I think the Spanish version of this native word. And Natchitoches is the French one.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Oh, goodness. Okay, so you hail from Wisconsin, you reside in Texas, and your story is set in Manhattan.

[John McDermott]

That's correct.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Tell us.

[John McDermott]

Yep.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

I mean, that opens up a whole lot of intrigue. Tell us about it.

[John McDermott]

Absolutely. Well, I was born in Madison, Wisconsin, and my mother was originally from Superior, Wisconsin, which is way, way up north at the top of the state. But her hails from New York all the way back to the Dutch settlers. She had long roots in Manhattan. I ended up in Texas after a sort of peripatetic my 20s. I traveled around a lot, did a lot of jobs, and ended up getting a PhD in creative writing at UW Milwaukee and ended up down here in Texas about 20 years ago. I coordinate the creative writing program here at Stephen F. Austin State University. So that's my day job. My day job is teaching undergraduates how to write fiction.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Amazing. It is always so much fun to have writers and storytellers, but those who teach writing, I mean, you're the real deal.

[John McDermott]

Thank you so much. I love my job. I love the undergraduates. They're a ton of fun.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

So the Last Spirits of Manhattan. This is a story that features Alfred Hitchcock, even though he may not be the protagonist. Is that right?

[John McDermott]

Yes, that is correct. He is in the book. The book is based on an actual event that my mother told me about when I was a young guy. Her great aunt's house in Manhattan was rented by Alfred Hitchcock for a party in 1956. He wanted a spooky place to throw a party, and her house fit the bill. Of course, she was dead by that time. She lived there with her divorced sister and their children, and by the mid-50s, they had both passed away, and the house had fallen into kind of disrepair, and nobody in the family wanted to buy it. So Hitchcock rented it for an evening and invited all his friends.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

And why that particular house? Just because it looked spooky? I mean, what drew him to it?

[John McDermott]

Yeah, it was mostly the ambiance. He actually put an ad. He hired Young and Rubicam, the advertising agency in Manhattan, to find just the right space. They put an ad in the New York Times, and after a few months, they found the spot. In my rendering of it, my fictional rendering of it, I have my mother sort of as a stand in. She was the basis for the character. But I have done all sorts of poetic license. I have her running away to Manhattan, avoiding a unattractive marriage proposal. And she goes there and she helps throw the party.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

It's amazing how for so many of us. And I'm gonna say us. And that reveals a lot, this idea of an unattractive marriage proposal becomes the inciting incident for our stories.

[John McDermott]

You know, it goes back, what, to the 18th century? The marriage plot. Right? Dear reader, I married him. I guess we have to thank people like Jane Austen.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And now I imagine this exciting life, and I write fiction as a result. So I have to ask, structurally, to begin with in a story like this, this is historical fiction. Yes.

[John McDermott]

Yes, it is.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

So Alfred Hitchcock, being a real character, this being a real event, how do you work that? You are the writer. You don't need to take permissions because this is fiction. But how true to the event do you like? How have you researched to stay true? Do you need to? Do you not need to?

[John McDermott]

I love research. I love reading. So I threw myself into it. I read a fantastic biography of Hitchcock. Some of the other guests at the house were also true. Henry Fonda was there. Charles Adams, the man who invented the Addams Family, he was at the party. So there's a great biography of him. So I tried to get the spirit of Hitchcock correct.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Okay.

[John McDermott]

But I certainly invented a lot of the plot.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Interesting. And is it true that if the characters are deceased, they're no longer alive, and you're using these real people, there's no permissions that you need to take.

[John McDermott]

I know the publisher, Simon and Schuster, did have to be wary of some images. The COVID image. We did not end up using the actual advertisement that they ran in the New York Times. That was actually kind of a fun adventure because I wrote to the Times and said, hey, can we get the permission to use this advertisement that was in the classifieds? They wrote back and they said, well, that's not our place. We don't copyright classified ads. It has to be the person who wrote the ad. That's who you have to ask. Well, we didn't really know who wrote the ad. Hitchcock is dead. The Hitchcock estate said, we don't know who wrote the ad. We don't really care. So I went to Young and Rubicam, the advertising agency, who really did a lot of what we think of as Hitchcock's voice. The openings for his TV show were written by a guy at Young and Rubicam, But Young and Rubicam doesn't exist any longer. It got eaten by another advertising conglomerate. So we were going to run the ad, and then at the very last minute, some lawyers stepped in and said, you know what? Maybe we don't want to mess with these permissions. So the ad that you actually see in the published book I invented, I wrote the ad in the spirit of the actual ad, but it's not the real thing.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

I see. Interesting. And in a situation where you have let's say a dinner party like this and you're referencing real characters and you weren't in the room at the time, so you don't know exactly how the conversation went. How much poetic license can you take with that kind of thing? And how mindful do you need to be of, let's say one of the characters did something not nice. How mindful do you need to be to describe that accurately without offending, I don't know, their descendants?

[John McDermott]

That is a fantastic question because some of the characters have done some not nice things in the novel. They're human and I do want to be. Yes, they're human. And of course, the not nice things are what give us plot. Right. So I wanted to be mindful of trying to capture the spirit of what I thought the person was really like, treating them with some humanity, that they may have made mistakes, but we've all made mistakes at the same time. I've played a lot with poetic license. You know, I wasn't there at the party. I'm sure the party didn't look like my rendition of the party. I put some people at the party who may or may not have been there. Charles Adams was there with his. Well, he was at the time married to his second wife, Barbara, who may or may not have taken out a life insurance policy on him. And that made him a little nervous. And she is at the party in my rendition. Maybe she wasn't, but they did get divorced shortly after. I've been pretty flexible with the truth, but trying to be respectful of our public imaginings of what these people were actually like.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Right. So what happens in the book? There's this party hosted by Alfred Hitchcock in the spooky mansion with the celebrity guests. That's all I know.

[John McDermott]

Well, what happens are actual ghosts start to show up. Hitchcock thought he was just throwing a party. Here's where I took a lot of poetic license. I decided to. The guest list expands to the afterlife and the ghosts I use are primarily ghosts from my actual family history. My mother had a cousin, I guess she would be my great, great cousin. Died of the Spanish influenza there in 1918. And she, her name is Snug. She is the first character we're introduced to and she is a teenage ghost who's running through the whole book. We also have the ghost of one of my great aunt's husbands who they had a well known divorce. It was the highest alimony settlement in New York City at the time. And it was an unhappy family and he killed himself. So this sad ghost shows up wanting to make reparations with his recently deceased wife, who is also a ghost in the house. So there's quite a cast of the

[Renita Hora (Host)]

undead and they show up as guests to the party.

[John McDermott]

They are more like party crashers.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Party crashers?

[John McDermott]

Yeah. Not so much guests as much as party crashers. So it is my protagonist, Carolyn Banks, and her new friend who's the young copywriter at Young and Rubicam, a guy named Pete d'. Onofrio. It is Carolyn Pete's job to keep the ghosts at bay while the party goes on.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Ah, so they know that this is a haunted mansion, so to speak.

[John McDermott]

They do. And they're the only ones who do.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

And how much of this is imagined? That is fiction versus. Is that how it went down? There were ghosts that day at the party?

[John McDermott]

I don't think so. My mother never mentioned the ghosts. The ghosts are my invention. The celebrities are real. The party was real. He was working on a film called the Wrong man at the time. That's real. Henry Fonda was the star. So Fonda showing up was real.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

I see.

[John McDermott]

But the supernatural aspect of it is all my own invention.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

And what drew you to that specific genre? Do you write supernatural stories?

[John McDermott]

You know, I hadn't.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

You hadn't?

[John McDermott]

No. Before this, I've published a couple of volumes of poetry. I've written and published a lot of short stories. A few of them are what I would call speculative, but not many. I started writing this book knowing that Hitchcock was in it and knowing I wanted to use I love Manhattan. I wanted to write about Manhattan. And the ghosts just popped up. Honestly, it was research. And I said, hey, it's a spooky party. Let's really make it the real deal.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Amazing. So this is your debut novel. You've also done it is various other writing. Fiction, poetry, et cetera. How difficult was it to pull together a novel even though you're a seasoned writer in other forms?

[John McDermott]

Well, I can admit I've been writing novels for a long time. Haven't always successfully sold them. This is probably my fourth complete manuscript. The whole time I was writing poetry and my short fiction, I was laboring away in the minds of long form fiction. I certainly sent my stuff out and tried to get an agent. And I think I've heard other guests of yours say in the past, you know, those things are learning experiences and they're good. They're in desk drawers. This was a long slog. I would say about a 20 year attempt. This book, it took me about four years to write it. From finally Deciding that was the project I wanted to do to the point where I got an agent and sold it and edited it with the publishing house and now it's coming out.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

What do you think pushed the needle on this specific one?

[John McDermott]

I'd like to say I'm a better writer, I think, though I would probably say it's the right idea at the right time with just the good fortune of showing it to the right people. I always tell my students that the only thing you can control is the writing and that everything else is sort of the roulette wheel. That you're going to throw yourself out there into the world and hope that it sticks. But all you can control is the writing.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Amazing. And the book is already out.

[John McDermott]

It is. It came out in mid October of 2025. It's available wherever books are sold, as they say.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Fantastic. So where is that? Where can we find the books? Where can we find you your socials, Any kind of information you'd like to give to our audiences?

[John McDermott]

Absolutely. I'm a big supporter of bookshop.org that is an online site that supports independent booksellers. But you can find it at all of the big marketers, Barnes and Noble and Books A Million, all those sorts of places. You can find [e-mail] that's my author website, Simon and Schuster at 8Print Atria. They have an official site for me as well. And you can find me on Instagram.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Instagram never fails. Okay, so John, you're going to read us an excerpt from the book. Tell us what that is. Tee it up for us. Give us some context.

[John McDermott]

You bet. I'm going to begin where books begin on page one. This is the prologue from the Last Spirits of Manhattan. It opens with our introduction to the first ghost Read a bit for you. It's called the Blue Girl,

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[Renita Hora (Host)]

And now to the premise of the True Fiction project, which of course is to create fiction out of non fiction.

[John McDermott]

The Blue Girl was dead. Her name was Isabella, but everyone she remembered called her Snug. That was years ago. What remained of her body lay lay in a coffin in Woodlawn, a train ride away in The Bronx. She was something else lingering here. A ghost, she supposed that was it. Other words she'd considered. Apparition, phantom, vision, revenant, spirit, spook. She had a lot of time to think. On East 80th Street, Snug spent most of her days in the basement in the coal room of Number Seven, its walls stained by decades of deliveries, mounds and mounds of fuel long since burned. The history of the house clung to the plaster in dirty shadows. The furnace was an octopus with a great wide belly and tentacle pipes thrust and intersecting through the five floors above. It had a creaky, hinged door Snug like to open when she was alive, careful not to singe herself on the sturdy metal handle. With tedious practice, she had learned to open it again, wrap her hand. The energy of her hand rather, if not the actual flesh around the bar and tub. There was the fire, still raging like she had in the early days of her afterlife. Oh, such anger, rage, rage. But the furnace had a purpose. Rage with intention. Keep the home, keep the occupants alive. Snug's rage had served no one, least of all herself, so it was rarer these days, if not altogether gone. Lately, the house had fallen silent, grown cold. For most of the years after her death, Number Seven thrummed with a sturdy pulse. Her aunt and uncle, her mother and her younger brother were seldom still, the servants galloping up and down the narrow staircase. Snug had felt the beat of life, and it roused her on days even when she didn't want to stir. Now, with their absence, she sensed a warning of another waning. This time, perhaps, of her surprising second existence.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

All right, well, that is page one, and I cannot wait to delve into page two and beyond. John, thank you so much for joining us today on the True Fiction Project. It's been such a pleasure to have you.

[John McDermott]

Oh, it's been a pleasure to chat with you.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

Likewise. And best of luck with the book. I can't wait to read it.

[John McDermott]

Thank you.

[Renita Hora (Host)]

That is John McDermott talking about his latest book. It is called the Last Spirits of Manhattan. And when I say latest, this is actually his debut novel. Even though he has been writing for a while, he lives in Texas and teaches creative writing at Stephen Austin State University. This is the True Fiction Project. I'm your host, Runita Hora. Here at the Tru Fiction Project, we are always looking for great stories that make for compelling fiction. So if you have a great story or know somebody who does, or if you are a writer who would like to contribute, then please do, get in touch with [e-mail] contact

[Renita Hora (Intro/Outro)]

thank you for listening to the True Fiction Project with Renita Hora. Be sure to subscribe to the newsletter to receive more inspiring stories showing how fiction is born from our everyday experiences. For more information, visit www.TrueFictionProject.com.

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