← UFO Talker
UFO Talker
Filmmaker Ron James talks about his new UFO documentary Accidental Truth: Next / Also we review Bill Konkolesky's book Experiencer: Raised in Two Worlds
01:14:26
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A
You are listening to the UFO Talker podcast. Come with us as we explore UFOs
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from the past and the present. With insightful discussions, interviews and reviews, we
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will add our voice to the mysteries
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that have been seen in our skies
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and oceans for all of human history. Now here is our host, Michael Ryan.
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Welcome everybody, to the podcast. This is season four, episode 36, coming to you from studio 7H overlooking the beautiful Trent river here in Ontario, Canada.
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C
And I'm Christine Scott coming to you from Studio 9B in the beautiful warehouse district in Regina, Saskatchewan.
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B
And on today's show, I have an interview with filmmaker Ron James about his upcoming UFO documentary, Accidental Truth Next, which streams worldwide on June 2. Also we have Christine's book review of Bill Konkoleski's experiencer Raised in Two Worlds. So today I'm drinking a great cup of coffee made by a Canadian company called Cherry Bomb Coffee Coffee.
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C
Oh, I love that name.
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B
Yes. And Christine, what are you having today?
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C
Well, well, my friend Patty gave me a bunch of canned drinks. She didn't weren't quite her cup of tea. And I am trying guava matcha. Wow. Because we talked about matcha last week and it's like, you know, I feel like David Letterman where you just say things to hear them. Like guava matcha.
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B
Yes, that is funny. So I've never had something like that before. What does it taste like?
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C
It tastes healthy. That's all I'm gonna say. But I'd say matcha and yerba are both acquired tastes.
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B
Yes.
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C
And you both have them cold. So I just feel very healthy right now.
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B
I know for me, when someone mentions healthy with food or drink, that's when I think, not for me.
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C
No.
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A
Next.
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B
Yeah, but I. Yeah, I just. And again, we don't get paid for saying this, but this coffee company, Cherry Bomb, which is in Toronto and they roast all of their beans in Prince Edward County, Ontario, I am going to go on record and say this is the best cup of coffee I've ever had in my life. Like, it is smooth, it is delicious. And we had the coffee beans ground. And so the bag that sits in our cupboard, every time you open that cupboard, oh, that smell, that old timey smell of great restaurants that had great cups of coffee, that is what this is like. But. Oh yeah, but I'm not sure if they ship outside of Canada. I don't know, you'll have to check out their website. But trust me on this one. This is a spectacular cup of coffee from this Cherry Bomb coffee. Now we have to take care of some UFO talker business. Now, Christine, this is hard to believe, but next week's show is the season finale for season four.
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C
Yeah. I am so amazed it came up so quickly.
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B
It is, it's amazing. It's. I think this season has just flown by like, like none of the other seasons have. It's. It's just amazing. And then also next week's episode, which is the May 27th episode, that episode will be our 150th episode.
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A
Wow.
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B
Like, even when I think about that number, I think, geez, how did this happen? 150 episodes like that is truly amazing. Now, I haven't counted this, but there was a lot of episodes where I had interviewed more than one people for an episode. So there was episodes where I had on people who just recounted their UFO story. So I tried to work it out in a ballpark kind of way. I think I've interviewed around 200 people for UFO Talker, and even that sounds unbelievable to me. But. And as we mentioned on the last few shows, we are working on our new YouTube channel, which should be ready in mid to late June. Now, several people have emailed with questions, so I just want to go over this again just to make it clear because they were a little bit confused. And so the podcast that everyone listens to right now, like the way you're listening to this one right now, that will absolutely not change. So there will be a UFO Talker podcast is going to be on all the podcast platforms and that way, and the way you listen to it now will be the exact way you'll be listening to it in season five. And the only thing that is really changing is we are adding a YouTube channel. And so episodes of UFO Talker will be on that. Now we have to do some slight adjustments for that so they'll be the same audio, but then there will be visuals and it'll allow us to put more things in there, like pictures of what we're talking about and that kind of thing. So that will be good. And also, and we've mentioned this before, also there's a new standalone segment that is about. It's going to be about a 10 to 15 minute long segment and we're calling it that Human said what? And it's not connected to the podcast. It will be separate and it will be on YouTube as well. Now, just to make that totally clear that it's a separate thing. So that human said what is not part of UFO Talker. And there's going to be lot because there's lots of topics and certain guests that just wouldn't work on the longer length of a regular podcast. So they will fit perfectly into this new format on this standalone show and they will be released over the Summer on YouTube and also on our Facebook page. Because people have said, oh, when you go in, when you go on summer hiatus, you know, we can't hear new episodes, we just play the best of. But this summer, the summer, the summer of 2026, all that will change for the better. So you will be able to get a fresh kind of a mini dose of Christine and I and other people and guests over the summer. And there'll be at least, I'm going to say, at least 10 of these episodes placed here and there. And the show will come back for season five in probably mid to late September. So we, that is kind of exciting for us here. It's going to be a little bit different. All kinds of new things we can do that we couldn't do before when it was just an audio podcast. But as always, if anyone has an idea what they would like to see on this new short form podcast or, you know, anything else that you want to send in, send that to UFO Talker L Net and put in the header, just say new show idea. So we've actually had a few people send in ideas already. One of them is actually pretty good. And I think we're going to slate this as something we will actually do. And so this person said they want somebody else, not either one of us, to have a show where that person, and we haven't picked who that person will be yet, is going to ask us questions about ourselves.
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C
Oh, I look forward to that.
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B
And of course we'll be able to edit out all the questions we don't like that we don't want to answer. But yeah, so we haven't picked the person yet. I have a couple of people in mind, but also I'm throwing it out to our listeners. If you've ever wanted to be a podcast host or you really like the show and you think that you would be the perfect voice to ask us questions in a 10 to 15 minute format, send that along too, because we're just going to open. It's kind of a fun thing. So we will open it up to everyone that listens to the show and you can send that in the same email and just label it, you know, show idea or something like that. So there you go, lots of interesting stuff.
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C
Oh, that'll be so much fun. I love answering questions.
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B
Well, we shall see about that.
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C
Yes.
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So now we're going to talk about a few UFO shows and conferences. And the first one we're going to mention is the Biggie. It is the granddad of all UFO shows, and that is Contact in the Desert. And that runs from Thursday, May 28 to Monday, June 1. And the speakers will include Jacques Vallee, George Newry, George Knapp, Whitley Strieber, Ron James, who we're interviewing on today's episode, Paul Hynek, Richard Dolan, and that is to name just a very few. There are literally 30 more easily, and all, all big names. And this is going to be held at the Renaissance Esmeralda Resort in Indian Wells, California. Now, there are also lots of events planned, including a tour of Giant Rock and the Integratron tour and just so much more. But it looks amazing. And apparently a lot of the hotels in that area are already sold out, so you might have to stay a little bit off hotel, as they say. Now, the next one is this takes place on September 9th through 12th, and it is called Phenomicon, which, you know that I love just saying that word. And this takes place in Vernal, Utah. And the speakers will include George Knapping, Dr. Travis Taylor, and Dr. Mariah Mayer, Jay Stratton, Ben Henson, and many, many others. And this is going to be held at the Unit Conference center in Vernal, Utah. So now we're going to do a little bit of UFO news. And here's something which caught my attention. It's from about two months ago, roughly. And this is something that was labeled as one of those drone incursions. And this took place at the Barksdale Air Force Base, which is near Shreveport, Louisiana. And so from March 9 through March 15, there were, there were several of these incursions. And they came in waves of drones. And each wave they were saying there was from at least 12 to 15 drones that were hovering or flying over the base. And some of these drones were over the base for up to four hours. Boy, and think about that. Try and think about that for a minute. Now, also, something that is odd is, this is definitely an odd aspect of the story is that they were, the base was trying to jam the signals going to and from the drones. And apparently the drones were resistant to this jam. And I thought, okay, so that places it on a different level than your Uncle John taking his drone out for a weekend fly over the base. Something else that should be mentioned is that this base, it is the major base for the B52s that carry all the nuclear weapons so it is a nuclear base where a lot of nuclear weapons are stored. Now because they don't go, you know, the, the military and the reporters can't find this out either. They don't go into a lot of details about what they are calling drones. So of course my question is now when they're saying drones, are they talking about drones like you and I can buy at a store? Or are they using drones as kind of a word for. Yeah, we don't know what that is.
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C
Yeah. Because it's kind of interchangeable nowadays.
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Yeah, yeah. We don't want to say UFOs because that would get everybody excited. So we're saying drones. But it just makes me question that because that is, you know, how can this happen? Like if it was just a drone and this was over more than one day. And also keep in mind these incursions have been happening for a long time now. So I would say these military bases have a protocol for how to deal with this. And if you're at this base and I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I'm for sure they have rifles on this base and a drone was hovering for four hours, don't you think they'd be trying to shoot them down? Like, yeah, that's another part of the story that makes me really wonder about the term drone. So I looked at a little bit of research on this base and over the years there have been several UFO sightings at this base. There was one from August 28, 1952 where strange lights were seen over the base, but not just once, but every night over a two week period. And this was by multiple witnesses. And I thought, wow, isn't this a weird coincidence? Like in August 28, 1952, over two weeks they had these lights over the base and then now, you know, decades later a similar thing is happening. So I think that adds more mystery to what this is exactly what is going on. So Christine, now you have a couple of interesting UFO news pieces as well.
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Well, you know, with all the files being released and the disclosure train that's kind of starting with this document release, everybody's talking about it. So we have kind of an interesting little nugget with some big names commenting on it, people you will recognize. And this has led to a recent headline that says four alien species pulled from crashed UFOs, researcher claims. And the researcher is someone that you have heard of, Dr. Hal Puthoff, who is the former Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications program advisor and, and a CIA funded researcher was on a podcast recently he was on Steve Bartlett's the diary of a CEO podcast alongside Age of Disclosure director Dan Farah and Ms. Dr. Puthoff said people who have been involved in recoveries have said there are at least four types. Four separate types. Now, now I have not had direct, direct access to that, but I believe the people who I talk to. Four separate types of life. He did not provide any evidence or detailed descriptions, but his longtime associate Eric Davis reportedly claimed in earlier discussions that the recovered beings were described in intelligence reports as gray, Nordic, insect like and reptilian. And according to Davis, the alleged beings all had humanoid characteristics including two arms and two legs. And again, if you wonder where you've heard Dr. Puthoff's name. Dr. Puthoff is a Stanford trained quantum physicist known for his work on paranormal research, remote viewing and UIP investigations. He has reportedly worked with or advised agencies including the CIA and the nsa. And he has served for chief science advisor to aerospace entrepreneur Robert Bigelow and Bigelow Aerospace, which a company of course in the past has been linked to government funded UFO research efforts. So this is just another little nugget.
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B
Well, it's funny because normally this kind of story would not get me too interested.
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C
Yeah.
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But Hal put off, he is a major name in ufology.
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C
Yeah.
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And so he's putting his name to this. So for him to throw it out there, he has to be very comfortable with his source. So when someone like this says something like that, you just think, wow, okay, this bumps up the credibility quite a bit more. It's still, it will still take actual proof. I think for a lot of people to believe there is such a thing. But because talk is cheap. Yes, but yeah, it definitely, definitely makes you sit back and think about it, that is for sure.
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C
And again, there's so many things coming out these days. We will keep you posted.
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B
Now Christine, you also have information on your UFO club that had a meeting recently and we always mention UFO Clubs on, on our show. So it'll be interesting to hear about what happened at the UFO Club that you belong to.
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C
Oh yes. On the Evening of Saturday, May 16, UFO Club presented screening of Close Encounters of the Third Kind at the Regina Public Library Film Theater. Of course, member John Vaughan is a programmer for the library and the Library Film Theater and Zoe Schneider delivered the introduction for the film and it was so nice to see it again. I said to John and Zoe afterwards, I got the absolute sweetest seat. Just great.
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B
Now, so the, the club is, is called the UFO Club.
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C
Yeah, we're planning a lot more Events. And I would say, because it's also open to the public, there was maybe nine other people in the theater. And John did such a great. John and Zoe did a great job decorating the lobby. I sent you the photos.
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B
So this was. This was held at a movie theater?
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C
Yeah, the Regina Downtown Public Library has a movie rep company cinema that's been playing for ages. And when I say rep company, there's Orig, you know, John does some of the programming. They show some first run close to movies. And that theater, I can't even remember how long it's been around for. I've been going there for decades. And it's right in the middle of downtown Regina, just by Victoria park. And it's a really, really nice little space. Afterwards, it was. We were chatting and a lady came up to me and I had put some of the show cards out on the table and some stickers. And John kind of mentioned to her who I was and she said, you guys are a UFO club. And I said, yeah. And I mentioned the podcast. And she went, really? I'm going to look into that.
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B
If somebody was in Regina and wanted to join this club, how would they go about doing that?
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C
That's a good question. They could always contact me through the show. Because it's a fairly loosely structured club, we have a core membership. I could tell you how to come to meetings. I could tell you what events. Mostly the events begin with some. Something at the library, film theater, like a screening of a film. And then we'll go out afterwards and talk about it and I'll talk about with everyone what's going on the podcast and we share stories and we've got a Facebook group chat. But if anybody is interested, they could contact me here through the podcast and I could tell you of upcoming events. I think there's something probably planned over the summer. No, nothing's kind of solidified yet, but boy, it was fun. We had a great time.
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B
And also I've heard that there is some drinking at some of these events later, like afterwards.
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C
Yes, there is. We were all too busy this Saturday, but we have been known to go to some of the good downtown pubs in Regina. Like the Hotel Saskatchewan has a lovely bar or o', Hanlon's, which is a traditional Irish pub that we like. And yeah, usually if we have time, we'll go out afterwards and, and have a. Have a little tipple. And yeah, we've been talking about doing something a little less formal like a watch party over the summer. So, yeah, if anybody in Regina is Interested. If you contact, if you email the podcast ufotalkerell.net Mike and you know, get me in touch with you and I can tell you when and where we're meeting next because it's always great to have more members.
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B
So now it's time for us to do a shout out to a small town or village where we have listeners. And this week it is Goderich, Ontario, which has a population of 7,881 people. And it is located on the eastern shore of Lake Huron at the mouth of the Maitland River. Now, I have actually been to Goderich several times. I haven't been there for a long time, but one thing that is very unique is the town square is actually an octagon. So in the middle of the octagon is the county courthouse. And then the street goes around that and around that street is all the normal buildings that you would find on the main street, for example. And one of them is a really nice old timey move movie theater. But it's, it's one of those places, if you want to look at it online, it's just, I think it would be great for movies, for a movie scout to see it because it just has everything if you have, if you want that kind of look. And also, and this I can personally attest to is Goderich is known for its beautiful sunsets because the sun sets over Lake Huron. And there is something different about the way the sun sets there. They're always totally spectacular.
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C
Well, you know, if you eat salt and you're not sure where it comes from. I did not know this. Goderich has the largest underground salt mine in the world.
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B
Yeah, I didn't know that either. I saw that as well because I
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C
recognized when I looked at it, it said the salt deposits are from an ancient seabed of Silurian age, the Salina Formation. Halite rock salt, also found in Windsor, Ontario. And the town lists Canadian Salt Co and the Windsor Salt Warehouse as the major businesses. And, you know, and Sifto, I've been eating salt all my life and I've seen all those names and I just assumed it was a Canadian company. Yeah. All coming from the same place.
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B
It is. It is.
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A
Yeah.
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B
It is amazing to, to see that because I was actually surprised because it's a pretty small town. Yeah.
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C
Well, and now, you know, when people say, you know, how was your day at work? And they say another day in the salt mines. Well, here they can really say that.
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B
They can literally say it.
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Yeah.
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B
Now here's the other Thing is, as every listener knows, we've covered a lot of bakeries now and a lot of them are very, very good. But I have to say, when I came across this bakery. Wow. I had to really pause at the pictures and there might be a road trip in the future to this one because it is called Colbert's Bakery and they have cornered the market on the best looking cream puff donuts you have ever seen in your life.
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C
Oh, yeah, don't take our name, don't just take our say for it. Go and look at the pictures. And I noticed not just cream puff scones. And it looks like they make their own Yule logs at Christmas time.
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B
God, yeah. And they make a vanilla cream puff, a chocolate cream puff, a strawberry cream puff. And you have to look at them because I can't even describe it, but it's like no cream puff you have ever seen in your life. And they also make something which other. I've seen this at other bakeries and I actually really like it. They make a Portuguese custard tart.
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C
Oh, I've had those. Those are amazing.
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B
Those are really, really good. And they make them, they make them there now. So Joy, I sent the pictures to Joy and I think, yeah, I think we'll be taking a road trip there this summer because it just. The bakery part looks just unbelievable. Now if you want to get coffee in Goderich, you should go to Kate's, Kate's Cafe. And they have that. It looks amazing as well. All their coffee is drip coffee and you can get flavor shots put into your coffee. And they have flavor shots of maple syrup, vanilla bean, lavender and many, many others. Now, boy, did this ever surprise me because I'm going to say I mentioned this on last week's episode and the first time I'd ever heard of it. And lo and behold, the very next show, they also make a turmeric latte.
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C
Yeah, told you.
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B
Yeah. It's not weird. I'd never heard of it before and now I've run into it twice. Yeah. And they're gearing up for the summer, of course. And wait till you hear these drinks. So these are all cold drinks. They make a lavender lemonade.
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C
Oh, yum.
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B
An elderberry lemonade. And. And just because I know that you're waiting for this, an iced turmeric lemonade.
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C
Oh, yum. That. See, that is so good for you.
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B
And who knew it'd be two episodes in a row that would have that in it? So that is our shout out to Goderich, Ontario, and we will Be right back after this message.
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D
The date was December 30, 1966. It was a clear moonlit night as Canadian Pacific Flight 421 flew at 31,000ft through the inky darkness just off the Peruvian coast, the DC8 was on its way to Mexico City. Captain Robert Milbank had put the aircraft on autopilot. CO pilot JD Dahl looked down at his watch. It was 3am Most of the passengers were asleep. It was very quiet on the aircraft. He was thinking about the great time he and his wife had at their home in White Rock, British Columbia last New Year's Eve. Captain Milbank, who had been looking at something off the left side, asked Doll to take a look at this. The pilot and co pilot could see two extremely bright white lights. Within a minute the two white lights seemed to be moving towards their aircraft. Finally, the object placed itself off their left wing and and paste their DC8. CO pilot JD Dahl thought the object was roughly the same size as their DC8 and about 500ft away they could see a row of dimmer yellow white lights. Between the two white lights they called for other crew members to take a look. Some thought they could make out the shape of a craft, like a saucer shape. After seven minutes the lights moved towards the tail of the DC8 and finally the object took off at tremendous speed. When asked about the sighting later, Captain Robert Milbank said. I must say that in my 26 years of flying, including wartime, I have never seen anything like this before and I'm convinced that UFOs are not a dream in somebody's head. What did the crew of Flight 421 see in the early morning hours of December 30th, 1966? In his final report, co pilot J.D. dahl said. I was a non believer before, but I was satisfied that we'd been intercepted by something not of this earth. And I've been in the interception business for four years.
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B
My next guest is Ron James. Ron is an award winning filmmaker, researcher, writer, editor and the media relations director for mufon. He also serves on the board of directors of the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance. Ron is the director of the acclaimed documentary Accidental UFO Revelations and he joins us today to discuss the sequel Accidental Next. Ron, welcome to the podcast.
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A
Thanks a lot for having me on. I'm really happy to be here.
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B
I guess my first question I would like to take a little step back from everything that you're involved in right now and ask you how you got interested in the subject of UFOs.
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A
Well, you know that's a, that's a good question. And I was always interested in, you know, understanding the things that, that are life's mysteries, the paranormal, the nature of reality, the UFO topic. These were all things that interested me as a kid growing up and into my adult life. So I was always an armchair aficionado, so to speak, of the topic, following the work of people like Nick Pope and Stanton Friedman, who I really looked up to in the early days of my explorations because they were like legitimate guys that, that were giving credibility to the subject. It was then about 20 2006, Steve Bassett from Paradigm Research Group came through Sedona, Arizona, where I was living at the time. And I interviewed him for another project because I had a video production company for some time at that point that I owned. And when he found out that I could do live streaming and things like that, he hired me to produce his X conferences. And all of a sudden I got to go to Washington D.C. and stand among the people that I'd looked up to for all these years. And I realized once I saw the dedication that they bring to the topic and the, the other issues that were being revealed at these conferences that were dealing with the biggest deception in human history. And I decided at that point that I was going to spend some time working on these topics. And so in my films and my TV shows, I've covered, you know, nature, reality, psych things, metaphysical topics, and a lot of work in the UFO field and some in the life after death field.
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B
Now, your new documentary has a lot of interesting people in it. I think it's a list of who's who, actually. But I mean, it includes Christopher Mellon, Dr. Gary Nolan, Ralph Blumenthal, and Dr. Michio Kaku, to name just a few. And I wonder, of all those people that you interviewed for the film, what interview surprised you the most?
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A
Oh, you know, that's a, that's a really good question. I think the, the interview that surprised me the most was actor Thomas Jane. This is a guy who has a, a list pedigree as an actor. He was the original Punisher. He had a fantastic role in the science fiction series the expanse. He's playing Dr. McCoy in a new Star release. And this guy's a, a bona fide legit actor with incredible skills in that department. But he's also a very deep thinker. He originally narrated Dr. Greer's movie Serious, and that's when I met him for the first time because I did the red carpet work for, for Stephen Greer and we became fast friends and his exploration into artificial intelligence and the things that he's uncovered and the things that he brings to the mov, I think are enough to literally say shocking on some level that, you know, as we face what artificial intelligence is going to bring to humanity, I couldn't find anybody to say anything really good about it. And Thomas outlines it in the film in a magnificent way.
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B
It's funny when you look into it, you know, over the decades, there's actually quite a few people in Hollywood in front of and behind the camera that are actually interested in this. Have you ever had a chance to speak to Paul Giamatti? Because I know that he is interested and I think he did a podcast on it, actually. Or do you know of anybody else that we're not aware of?
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A
Well, you know, it's amazing that the percentage of people that have had some kind of experience, be it a sighting, an encounter of in the general population, is significant. And, you know, I like to remind people that those statistics branch out into all aspects of culture, including government, the Hollywood community, and really any other community on the planet. So, yeah, the Hollywood is full of people that have had personal experiences. And another thing that I found really interesting in my work with the Hollywood Disclosure alliance is that these writers and these people that are. That are making these shows, they're into the topic as well. And like with the show Project Blue Book that was put on by History Channel a few years ago, these guys really, really wanted to. To try to get it right. And even though that was a fictionalized show, it was put together by people who were conscientious about getting knowledge to the public. And we're seeing that more and more. You know, it's not really a topic to be grossly exploited anymore, as much as there's a genuine interest in Hollywood to be part of the. Of the revelation and not just capitalize on it.
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B
I know that everybody. This won't come as any surprise to anybody that follows this topic. Is everybody is talking about disclosure. In your opinion, are we witnessing genuine disclosure right now, or are we seeing like a carefully managed narrative?
- [37:45]
A
Well, you know, I've always been in the camp that says that this secrecy has been managed by people who we will never know, buried deep within joint ventures between corporate America and the corporate world, and deep black government programs that are all very compartmentalized so that there's very few people that know the overall bird's eye view, and that starting in 2017, we have begun to see a modern rollout of certain information. But it's very similar to the same exact thing that we got back in the 1950s. We have military people coming forward saying that there's objects in the sky that we can't identify, doing things that we can't explain. This. We, we had this already from General Sanford. We had Don Kehoe, a military guy coming forth, talking about reverse engineering programs. So we're literally seeing a repeat performance. They didn't even bother to change the script. And what we're seeing now that's a little bit different is they've gotta whitewash this entire past of what we've been doing for the last 75 years, because a lot of it is not okay. There's technology that could have benefited humanity. We believe there is all kinds of secrecy that has surrounded things that are going to generate tremendous amount of profits for certain companies. And there's, you know, sources of power perhaps that could change the whole dynamic on planet Earth. So they're going to give us this narrated version of disclosure, but it's never going to be the complete truth because they can't tell us the complete truth because their hands are dirty. And so the, the thing that we're seeing now, this latest drop of government documents is like most of that stuff we'd already seen, the, the, the things that were very, supposedly very compelling. We had this image of this thing that looked like a cross that turned out to be a lens aberration of a flare on a parachute. We don't really understand why they'd even put this stuff together. It's like whoever compiled this latest batch of, of information and videos knows less about the topic than we do. So it's really hard to explain. I don't know how this fits into the overall disclosure. But yeah, we're never going to get the complete truth from government. We have to find it elsewhere. Civilian organizations like MUFON and all of the great research done by people like Richard Dolan, guys like that are where we're going to get answers.
- [40:29]
B
Now, for your documentary, you attended a lot of US Congressional hearings in person. Now, what did you see behind the scenes that the public never got to experience? And I can imagine it would be a lot.
- [40:46]
A
Well, I mean, you know, I had private meetings with numerous members of Congress in, in the film, the new film, you are going to get to see that. Right after the, the hearings where Lou Elizondo testified, I went up to Ohio and I went and met with a very famous experiencer and who has some metal samples that have been studied for years and years by all kinds of different people. The NSA's had it, NASA's had it. Tom DeLonge and Lou Elizondo went to this guy' and took the material for a minute. How put off Gary Nolan. All of the main characters have. Have had access to this material, but this poor guy can't get a straight answer from anybody about what the test results were. So after the hearing, I actually journeyed to Ohio. I rented a car and I drove from Washington D.C. to Ohio. And the audience gets to follow this, this adventure. We pulled samples from the material. Very strange things happened that we document in the film. And then I went back and I physically turned over samples of this material to Senator Kirsten Gillibrand herself to give to Arrow. And then later that week we had the. We had the Arrow hearing where John Kozlovsky, the new leader of Arrow, was testifying about how things were going to be different. So it was a heck of an adventure. I got to meet Kirsten Gillibrand. She's in the film saying some very controversial things. And so that's one of the behind the scenes thing. And then there's another story in the film about how we actually were able to influence the questioning in real time of Lou Elizondo. And it caused the, the revelation about Lockheed Martin and the materials that were supposed to go to Bigelow Aerospace. We were literally in the back of the room texting questions to the congressman as he was asking them. And we blew the lid off the whole Lockheed Martin thing from the back of the room. And that's a story that is impossible to believe. People are probably hearing this right now going, no way. But we document it in the film. We proved that we did it. It was amazing.
- [43:00]
B
The. I have a question about the, the material that was mentioned in your documentary. Was that material ever analyzed?
- [43:12]
A
Yeah, it's been analyzed by a lot of people. It was the subject of a Discovery Channel show with Mike Barra. And we revisit that. It's been analyzed by many groups. Some of them are saying that it's just a piece of aluminum slag. There's nothing special about it. And other ones are saying that there's all kinds of elements to it that nobody can explain. So in the film we're showing people this Arrow tested it. Finally, when we finished the film, they hadn't released the results. But then as we were just about to send it to the distributor, Arrow dropped the results of the test on this aluminum. That which they said was just basic aluminum, but at the same time we were having a testing done by another laboratory who said, no, this stuff's weird, it has properties of ceramics, it's doing things that we can't explain. And so, you know, the opinions vary as to what this is. And we're not trying to sell the audience on an idea that this came from a flying saucer. That's what the witness says. But I think the story about this metal and what is literally 20 years of convoluted testing and strange things happening to the people that got involved with it is the story.
- [44:30]
B
I want to ask you a follow up question to one I asked earlier when you had gone to Congress and you know, most people have never been able to go to the US Congress. What is the sense that you got from kind of seeing, pulling back the curtain a little bit of what goes on? Did it make you feel better about the direction of the government's involvement in investigating UFOs or did it make you feel worse about it? Like, do they look like they have a handle or. It looks like chaos.
- [45:06]
A
You know, it's, it's really interesting. Ryan, from the questions you're asking me, I would almost think you'd seen the new movie because we covered that exact topic. There's a scene where, where I go in for the first time to meet with Congressman Tim Burchett. And my whole reason for wanting that meeting was because the question I was asking myself and other people were asking is what are these Congress people hearing? You know, if you have a military guy come in and he says, oh yeah, our pilots are seeing stuff, but you don't have the clearance, I can't talk to you about it. And you have all those people paraded through who really can't even open up to the Congress people because of security clearances, etc, then what are they hearing and is their knowledge clouded? So what I decided to do was go in and meet face to face with as many Congress people as I could and tell them the history of this cover up from the UFO investigator standpoint. In other words, what would MUFON say to them? What would guys like Richard say to them? What would Stephen Bassett say to them? Because they weren't ever going to hear that from the, from the official people that were coming in and out of their offices. And I documented it and I filmed it and it's in the film. And so the UFO community can rest assured that these people have heard our side of the story. And the, what I found the most interesting is that these are all people just like you and I, people like Congressman Burchett, even Kirsten Gillibrand. Even Andre Carson. These people have a genuine interest in the truth and they are just as curious as we are. And unfortunately they're being kept from the knowledge just as much as we are. And so I, I think that there's a genuine effort and a genuine desire in Washington to do the best they can to bring this forward. But they are dealing with this lumbering bureaucracy and the many facets and they have to play with in these rules. And in the new film, I pretty much about halfway through the film there's a scene with a broken record. And I just have to acknowledge after all the time in D.C. we're only going to get so much out of this process. And it's not because of bad people, it's because of the process they have to be a part of. And so we have dedicated people in Washington. I believe that they are good people who care about the topic, but their hands are going to be tied by the process. And so, you know, don't look to Washington D.C. and the political process of disclosure to tell us the whole truth because I don't believe it ever will.
- [47:50]
B
Now, I haven't been able to see the film yet at the time we're doing this, but I have a kind of another follow up question. Hopefully it's in the film.
- [48:00]
A
Almost like you have esp. I mean the questions that you're asking me are things that we really, really put out in the film. It's a very groundbreaking film and you're just right on target.
- [48:14]
B
My follow up question, and this is not a new kind of concept. I'm sure you have read about this and talked about this before as well as many people. But did you get the sense that in Washington there are the congressmen and women and senators who are genuinely interested and they're investigating, but then there are the career bureaucrats. And I've been told, you know, presidents come and go, but there's a core of a lot of these agencies and there's so many of Alphabet soup agencies in the US that if they were protecting something, do you get a sense that that would be easy for them to do? Because aren't they so complex and so big that they're almost like little countries onto themselves?
- [49:14]
A
Yeah, look, there's a lot of layers to this. So, you know, like just on Capitol Hill we have our front facing politicians who can get on the microphones and talk about how they want to push for disclosure. Then we have the, the front facing military and the intelligence agencies. When I say front facing, what I mean is the surface layer of these agencies that are the ones feeding them information. And then we have the very, very small chain of command that leads all the way down the rabbit hole to the very, very few people who have the bird's eye view of this whole topic that people think that don't realize that over time, you know, people have passed away and infra and evidence has been destroyed and there is a lot going on that people just don't even know. So we have a very compartmentalized, fractured group of people that are keeping different things secret and hardly anybody knows the whole story. It's been lost to time through the official standard panels. And, and so there's multiple, multiple layers, front facing, front facing military intel guys, totally top secret compartmentalized programs within government and industry that have long evaded accountability. And, and these guys are so far down that they, they really never are going to surface and say yes, we have saucers and we've developed this technology. They are a long way away from all of us.
- [50:53]
B
Now in your documentary it talks about something that I'm interested in. I think a lot of other people in the topic are interested in is you bring up subjects like consciousness and near death experiences. Why do you think those topics are connected to UFOs?
- [51:14]
A
It all has to do with the nature of reality. In the new film we're addressing the reason it's called Accidental Truth next is because the premise that we see start with is what happens once we officially understand that we have interaction with non human intelligence. Where do we go from there? Because the, the conversation up till now we're hung up on, you know, what are they, where are they from? But the fact of the matter is that there is a they. And even if we can't solve everything about what that means, we have to start thinking about what it means to the progress of human civilization. And what it means is we're going to have to start understanding and adapting to new realities that are going to require a new vocabulary and a vast amount of thinking and philosophizing and religious revisions and scientific revisions. We're in for a revolution.
- [52:17]
B
You've been, because you're involved with MUFON Television and all the documentaries you've been doing and you have your, you've got your hand into so many pies. Have you talked to people in the past that maybe 10 years ago or several years ago you listened to their story and you thought, wow, that is way, way out there. But now with a new perspective and seeing things in a different light, have you thought, oh, that person that Seemed kind of unbelievable. But now when we're kind of focusing on, like you're saying, consciousness and all that kind of thing, it seems to be closer to the truth. Have you had that experience where you've kind of shifted your opinion on what people have told you in the past and now seeing it through different eyes?
- [53:12]
A
Well, you know, certainly your perception of things evolves my understanding that. And, you know, I don't think I adequately answered your last question, so it kind of dovetails into this one. In order for us to understand this phenomenon, we're going to have to start looking at things that have been traditionally either esoteric or ignored. Lack of scientific validity. Because we can't put this puzzle together from a strict material of science and traditional approach. Our understanding of space and time and physics, I believe, are completely wrong. Our understanding of the very nature of reality is only starting to evolve. And the reason all these topics come together is because there are certain mechanisms that allow certain phenomena to occur. And, and these mechanisms are the same despite the phenomenon. So in other words, somebody might have an encounter with a ghost. Somebody might have an encounter with what they describe as an angel or a demonic force. Somebody might have a vision where they see, you know, a being that's, that is non human and non embodied communicating with them. And even though these are all different types of beings approaching them for different reasons, they're approaching them in similar ways, using the same mechanisms within physical reality to be able to do that. So what we're, I think, going to be discovering is the, the subjective nature of our reality versus consensus. It's really, it's a, it's a time for us. Sorry, I need to choose my words carefully. It's a time that, that, that our understanding of our very existence is about to completely change. And there's a lot of segments of society that simply are not ready for that.
- [55:10]
B
I know I've seen that several people have talked about that is it would affect a lot of groups. So, for example, if the president came out tomorrow and said, you know, extraterrestrials are here, and they've been here for a long time and they continue to be with us every day, I think, like a lot of people have said, this could have a monumental impact on definitely certain groups of society, probably religious parts of society. So have you seen just in your life doing this kind of work, how do you think it would affect people, like whether they're religious or non religious or just in your daily life?
- [55:56]
A
Well, you know, it depends on each person's individual journey. People the conversation has been for a long time that, oh well, people can handle the truth, they're ready for the truth. But the fact of the matter is it's way more nuanced than that. It's not people can handle the truth. It's dependent on what the context of the truth is. And what I mean by that is that if the government or whoever were to come forward and say, hey, there's non human intelligence engaging us, we don't know too much about them, but they don't seem to pose a threat. And you know, we'll keep you posted. Most of the population would react in such a way as to say, okay, you know, we grew up on ancient aliens. We're not surprised. We've known something was going on and people are going to get back to their lives and slowly digest this knowledge and wait for more information. But if the same powers were to come out and say, hey, there's non human intelligence, there's extraterrestrials, there's possibly beings living here on the planet that have been here all along and have technology way beyond us, we don't know very much about them, we don't know what they want, we can't defend against them. We have evidence that there could be a problem one day, well then all of a sudden our warlike tendencies are going to be aroused and, you know, society is going to be angry and fearful and all of the things that will cascade through the population and that reaction is going to be completely different. So context is important, but the other thing is, is personal context. As we look at some of the truths behind these things, people are very committed to their filters. And I hear a lot of, of talk, especially lately, after what J.D. vance said about, you know, these are things that are angelic and demonic forces and that's it. And the thing that concerns me about that, I'm willing to say, hey, you know what, your filters and your stories of angelic and demonic forces as they go through your, your, your traditional religious teachings, all of that is valid and could apply to what we're seeing now. But I don't think it's productive to not have an open mind that there could be even more to it than that. So the traditional community is open minded toward the, the, the people that are saying that this is what it is and it's nothing else. But the people that are saying this is what it is and it's nothing else don't seem to be as open minded to the rest of the community and the rest of the possibilities and this is already brewing as a huge societal rift. And so when they come out with, hey, there's non human intelligence, we already have the camp that are going to insist on identifying it as certain things to the point of, you know, almost being militant about it. So what's going to happen with society when the reality of this comes is that there's going to be a big wrestling match. And it even happened inside the Pentagon. Lou Elizondo told me, and he told people in the TV show that he did, that there's a whole contingent inside the government that believes that these are forces of good and evil, biblical forces that we should not be messing with. So what they are, how they apply to your belief system and what you're willing to do to defend your position, that stuff's going to come front and center and it's not going to be easy.
- [59:25]
B
So your, your documentary that's coming out is, you know, Accidental Truths Next. What do you mean by that? Like, what should we expect?
- [59:36]
A
When I made the first Accidental Truth, I feel like I really moved the ball. The film won 28 awards and was hailed as a groundbreaking documentary. I didn't want to do it until I could move the ball again. So when I made Accidental Truth Next, it is really about what is next. And the things that we're studying in this is, you know, the nature reality, the future of humanity, the influence of, of artificial intelligence, life after death and consciousness, and all of the different things that we're going to have to start looking at as we digest this knowledge that we're not alone in many, many different ways. And the types of life that we could be encountering is, as we say in the trailer for the film, we have all new questions and it's time to discover what's next. I think we've been screwing around with this whole are there non human intelligence engaging humanity? From the beginning of written history, every, every spiritual teaching, every record of, of, of the evolution of humanity acknowledges that there is non human intelligence in some form that interacts with us. So it's time, I think, to accept that these things are real in one way or another and start talking about how does that affect the future of humanity.
- [60:59]
B
And Ron, can you tell the listeners when this comes out and in what areas of the world we can watch it, like North America and Europe, Australia, that kind of thing?
- [61:12]
A
Sure. So it will be released worldwide on Amazon, YouTube movies and TV and Apple TV. It comes out June 2nd. And for people that want to see the original Accidental Truth, we've arranged with YouTube movies and TV that that is now free for people to watch. And I'm very happy to get it out to more and more people. So you can see the original Accidental Truth now for free. The new one comes out June 2nd. The website is accidental truthnext.com and yeah, I'm really looking forward to see how people feel about this film.
- [61:49]
B
Now Ron, I've got one last question. And so after everything you've researched, filmed and personally experienced with making Accidental Truth next, what is the single biggest truth you now believe that you did not believe before you started this journey?
- [62:09]
A
I wasn't completely convinced of the simulation nature of our reality. But as I explored evolution in quantum physics, as I explore the evolutions of consciousness studies, Rizwan Verk is, is in my film laying out the scientific argument for simulation theory in itself. That yes, we are human beings having or we are spiritual beings having a human experience. And the way we facilitate that human experience is through this reality that operates as a simulation, almost like a computer program. Mathematics, algorithms, the illusion of matter. Yeah, the simulated nature of our reality is the thing that really was solidified for me. And if I had any doubts as to some aspects of simulation theory, I don't doubt them anymore.
- [63:03]
B
Before we wrap this up, I just want to thank Ron for being on the podcast today. I followed you a little bit and you're always interesting what you say and your films are always amazing. And I'm going to put a link to the first Accidental Truth in the show notes. So Ron, thank you again for being on the show today. It was incredibly great.
- [63:27]
A
Well, thanks for having me on. Anytime something pops up as far as, you know, like new evidence stumps or new movement in the field and you want some commentary, I'm happy to Come on.
- [63:49]
B
It's time once again for a book review from Christine Scott. Christine has written for Prairie Dog Magazine, Cracked and Home Movies Magazine and she is the co owner of Centennial Books in Regina, Saskatchewan. Now Christine, what book do you have for us today?
- [64:08]
C
Well, today I'll be talking about a book by a friend of the show. The book is called experiencer raised in two worlds by William J. Konkoleski. It has 117 pages plus appendices and a bibliography. Now the first edition of this book was published by Lulu Enterprises in 2009. I will be reviewing the second edition of the book re released in 2021. And he notes in the second edition of the book it's not revised. He just cleaned it up and edited a bit and he wanted to redo the COVID to match his second book, Experiencer. Two Two Worlds Collide. Now, this is actually the first book in a projected trilogy. Yeah. And William, who has been on the show, he's an author, lecturer, and Michigan State director for mufon. Outside of his wife Becky, he uses pseudonyms. Just strictly pseudonyms in this book, unless they're actual UFO researchers. And I'm going to start with a caveat up front from William about his hypnotic regression, because this. This is not giving anything away from the book. This is not a spoiler. He underwent hypnotic regression in 1993 and 94 with a woman named Shirley Coyne, who was a member of MUFON and a state licensed hypnotherapist. Shortly after these sessions, Shirley's husband George, who was also active in mufon, passed away. She left the organization and unfortunately, after she dutifully taped all the sessions and indicated to him they would be given to him at the end of their time exploring their events, she left MUFON before he received them. And then she later told him all her tapes from sessions with all the experiencers she regressed. Are you ready for this? Had been misplaced during a move.
- [66:09]
B
Oh, wow.
- [66:11]
C
When George passed.
- [66:13]
B
Wow.
- [66:13]
C
And so William kept in touch with her until she passed away in 2009, but she never found the tapes.
- [66:20]
B
Wow.
- [66:21]
C
Yeah. Isn't that a kick in the. Kick in the pants?
- [66:24]
B
Yep.
- [66:25]
C
But. But William took notes from the regressions to support his strong recall. But he's still an advocate of the procedure, so he's not down on it from this experience. He is one of those people. He's been a lifelong experiencer. When he was very young. Actually, his first memory is from age 2. He had just turned 2. The weather was warm enough to open the windows. He was sleeping in his crib. He thinks it was after midnight. And he awoke to see what looked like a skull with big eyes over his bed. And he screamed and screamed. His mom told him to go back to sleep. He remembers the skull receding into darkness. And this was the earliest memory he recalled under hypnosis. And age four, in 1975, he remembered another experience. His mom was working outside and he wanted a nap. He felt paralyzed and felt he was being pulled by a little man. Then he noticed two others, and they beckoned him to follow them. They told him to lie on his belly. He claims he levitated and flew to join them. And he really enjoyed it. But when he went to show his mum, but the lead gray told him it was their secret not to tell anyone. And Here's a little coda for you. When he woke up and looked for them and couldn't see them, he tried to fly again and just fell on the carpet.
- [67:44]
B
Wow.
- [67:45]
C
But it isn't just him. His older brother Trevor started experiencing paranormal activity in their house. Trevor claimed in 1976 a ghost passed through the room. He thought it was a figure that looked like a very old man with long gray hair, dressed in a thick dark coat only visible from the waist up. But everyone in the family reported strange feelings. Brothers Trevor and John kept feeling like something was tugging at their shirts. Both repeated in the house. Hanging plants and signs swaying in the house. And his first Cousin Joan in 1976 reported a sighting of a strange person at her house. So this is again one of those inter family kind of things. When he was 7, he saw an odd cloud which turned out to be an experience where he felt he was actually taken aboard. At age 7, he felt his arm was cut into. And here's a really freaky part. One of the beings told him, if, if you be good, you'll see the color blue. He was looking into the being's eyes and when the being said that, he said, he said the being's eyes changed from black to blue for him.
- [68:55]
B
That's weird. I, I had read that and I had. I don't think I've read that anywhere else before. Like any, no. Any other experiencers?
- [69:06]
C
Yeah, I, I've never heard that. There, there are a lot in his accounts that you see a repeating pattern like things starting at a young age that you don't recall until later. Not just him, but the whole family reporting odd things, but nobody could quite put their fingers on it. But the one thing is, he didn't think he saw what could be described as a first actual UFO until age 9. Previously it was beings or clouds. And he had a number of out of body experiences. And he reports a number of visits in the book, but from different types of beings. There was the blue eyed one, something that looked like a mantis. And again, strange phone calls in the house. Just like Lynn Rule reported very strange phone calls. And when he turned 17, that's when Communion came out. And like with a lot of people, events started falling into place. And he spends a lot of the book wondering, you know, what happened to me? What could it be? Is it. This is that I'm a UFO investigator. But as I said, this is the first part of a trilogy. Book three, I don't believe has come out yet. Book two is called Experiencer Raised in Two worlds which expands on his life. So basically, book one. Book one is a taste of his experiences and his theories about what they might be. And I remember he was a really good interview on the show. He comes across as deeply sincere and deeply. He's interested in what happens to him and he's. I keep on coming back to the word sincere. It's a very sincerely written book and
- [70:53]
B
we are going to cover the, we're going to review the second book in a future episode.
- [71:01]
C
I'm not sure when book three is coming out, though. That is the one thing I don't know.
- [71:05]
B
And as a, as a book to read, just as the reading part, what was it like to read?
- [71:12]
C
I would say it's like having a. It's very conversational. There are some books you read and the author's a bit more detached. This is. I keep, I'll, I'll say the word sincere again. It comes back like someone you're sitting across the coffee table having a conversation with over a cup of coffee about, gee, this is what happened to me. It's like you're in the room with him and you're having a conversation about what happened to him and what, what it could be and exploring the themes in his life. He connects with the reader immediately and it's like he's in the room talking with you. So I would probably give it. As I said, he's. He's spreading it out between three books. But his conversational writing style, I would probably give five out of five discs because if you're reading a book like this, you want to connect with the author and he does that very well.
- [72:12]
B
Wow. Very good. Well, thank you, Christine. And Christine will be back in the coming weeks with another book review.
- [72:22]
D
Here are the Canadian civil aviation anomalies for the week of May 11 to May 15, 2026. On May 11, a principal air Cessna flying from Abbotsford International Airport reported Paris gliders within less than 500ft laterally and at the same altitude of 2,000ft. In the vicinity of Cypress Mountain. On May 12, a privately registered Cessna passed through the control zone without contacting the tower. The pilot also did not respond on the 126.7 MHz frequency. The aircraft also responded flew over the Donnacona Jail at an altitude of 800ft. On May 15, a Jazz de Havilland aircraft flying from Calgary International airport to Fort McMurray International Airport reported traffic alert and collision avoidance system on departure to Runway 17R. No observed targets on radar. There was no impact on operations and all flights proceeded to their destinations without further incident.
- [73:36]
B
Well, that's our podcast for this week. Please share, subscribe and do all those great things to help spread the word about UFO Talker. And until next time, this is Michael Ryan. Keep watching the skies.
- [73:51]
D
You have been listening to the UFO Talker. If you have any questions or comments on this episode, you can email us@ufotalkerl.net or visit our website at Ufotalker CA. You can support Ufotalker by using the Buy me a Coffee app with links on our website and in the show notes. We appreciate every listener. Thank you for your support. This has been a Michael Ryan production.
- [74:19]
C
30 that's a wrap.