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- [00:00]
A
Hi everybody, this is Michael Ryan. We are on summer hiatus, but for the rest of the summer we are going to play the Best of UFO Talker Podcast. So enjoy today's episode and as always, if you have a question or comment or something you would like to say to us, send your email to ufotalkerell.net foreign. You are listening to the UFO Talker podcast. Come with us as we explore UFOs from the past and the present. With insightful discussions, interviews and reviews, we will add our voice to the mysteries that have been seen in our skies and oceans for all of human history. Now, here is our host, Michael Ryan. Welcome everybody, to the podcast. This is season four, episode 12, coming to you from Studio 7H overlooking the beautiful Trent river here in Ontario, Canada.
- [01:06]
B
And I'm Christine Scott, coming to you from Studio 9B in the beautiful warehouse district in Regina, Saskatchewan.
- [01:13]
A
And on today's show, we're going to look into why the Canadian military was. Was so interested in a UFO encounter in Vidora, Saskatchewan. And the more we cover these RCMP files, the more we find that Saskatchewan was like the epicenter of maybe not just Canada, but the world with these UFO sightings. And also Christine is going to review Ralph Blumenthal's book, the Believer Book about John Mack. So that will be very interesting. So, Christine, that sound tells us that it is that time of the year again. And Christmas is only What? It's only 24 more days.
- [02:08]
B
Yeah. But the podcast kitty's got a nice little surprise of treats in the mail.
- [02:13]
A
I know. I was gonna say he was eating through the cords. The microphone cords. That would have been a great surprise, but yes, yes, the cats, they got. Santa paid a visit.
- [02:29]
B
Yeah. To the Peach. My. My podcast cats, Peach and Agatha. Yeah, they were. They weren't really good this year, I know.
- [02:37]
A
Yes, yes. And Christine, the thing is, it's also time for our Christmas contest, which we've had every year for a few, few years now. And so this year we have two giveaway gifts. So one of them is the Keith Chester book Strange Company, which was published by Anomalous Books and it was about foo fighters. We had a two part interview with Keith a couple of weeks ago and it is a excellent, excellent book.
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B
It is so good. Yeah.
- [03:11]
A
And then we have a mystery gift, which I am dying to tell you what this is, but I think we have to hold off one more week before we mention it. But I am so excited to talk to you about it because it'll be one of the first places in the world that you're, that you're going to drop here. That's right.
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B
Dropping on this podcast.
- [03:37]
A
I think this will be the first place that you will hear about this. And it's definitely UFO related. So that is very interesting. Now to enter the contest, you can be anywhere in the world where you can get mail from Canada. So that pretty much covers almost everybody. And all you have to do is send us an email with Christmas in the header and send that and your name and address in the body of the email and send that to ufotalkerl.net and so the last day that we will receive these or that will be eligible for the contest is 10pm Eastern Standard Time here in North America on December 19th. And on our Christmas Eve show, which is December 24th, we will pick a winner out of a hat. And that will be pretty exciting. And it'll be those two gifts and the one gift. They're both great, but there's another gift. Wow, it's.
- [04:46]
B
We wish we could tell you about it. It's not amazing.
- [04:49]
A
I'm dying to tell you what it is. I even, I even reached out today to the person involved in the project and we have to hold off just a little bit longer, but it's going to be pretty exciting. So we have a couple of UFO conferences for you. And the one of them is put on by the Society for UAP Studies and it takes place December 4th through the 6th and you can go there in person. And also they have virtual participation so you can do it on your computer. And for the in person part, it's going to take place at the Frederick Alexander University in Erlangen, Germany. And it actually looks really good if you read their website, which we're going to put a link to in the show notes. Boy, a lot of thought was, was gone into what they're going to talk about. And I guess the theme of it is they're going to be bridging the diverse fields in UAP to, to make an advanced understanding of everything, everything possible. And so two of the keynote speakers are Professor Steve Fuller and Professor Ron Westrom. So that looks very interesting. And of course that takes place tomorrow. So if you're listening to this show later in the week, you've missed it. So anyways, that's unfortunate. So the next conference is a totally virtual conference. You can only go there by computer and that takes place on February 7th through February 8th. And it's called the UAP Summit. And they also call it the UAP Detection and Tracking Summit. So it has everything to do with how we can track uap, all the technology involved. That actually look, that looks really interesting as well. And they have, I guess their tagline is the summit will explore technologies, methodologies and collaborative frameworks to understanding and monitoring UAPs. And the a lot of good speakers. So just to name some of them they're going to have Richard Dolan, James Fowler, Peter Davenport, Robert Spearing, Gary Noland, that is to name a few. There's many, many others and we'll put a link to that in our show notes. But that looks very interesting as well. So now Christine, we're going to do some UFO news and I believe you have something right up my alley.
- [07:48]
B
Well yeah, if you know Mike, you know he is very interested in the smoke ring style of UFOs and apparently
- [07:55]
A
I'm the only one on earth because everyone keeps telling me no Mike, we already told you what that is. But no I'm not. I'm like a dog with a bone. I'm not giving this up.
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B
Well, that's why I knew you'd be very interested in this story because I see your black smoke ring and I raise you a red smoke ring.
- [08:17]
A
I know, I know, I saw that.
- [08:19]
B
Yeah, very unusual story. Bizarre. The headline is Bizarre UFO like halo of red light appears over small Italian town for the second time in three years. There's a giant red smoke ring basically shining above the town of Pasagno near the Italian Alps. And this, this story is dated November 27th of 2025. And they mentioned this eye catching image is almost identical to one taken in the same town in early 2023. It's a beautiful round halo of light as they call it, captured by nature. Photographer Valter Binotto captured both of the rings I guess in 2023 in this one over at Pasagno, a small town of about 2,200 people in northern Italy. This one was snapped 11-17-1045pm local time. Appears to be slightly fainter from the one from two and a half years ago. You know, and then someone's got to harsh the vibe. There was an article that came out later saying oh no, no. It's a rare lightning related phenomenon called emission of light and low frequency perturbations due to electromagnetic pulse sources.
- [09:34]
A
Yeah, I see those all the time. Yeah,
- [09:38]
B
and they're called ELV es. Like ELV Elves. Not quite elves which occur during particularly intense thunderstorms. And then they go on to say oh no, people don't notice them because they're impossible to see with the naked eye. They flash in the sky for 1000th of a second, 100 times quicker than it takes to blink. But only photographers like Binotto, you know, they have to have special devices attached to their camera to spot them. And then it has to do with EMPs towards space. Lightning bolts shoot electromagnetic pulses. But if you look at this picture, it's a clear sky with just a few clouds.
- [10:18]
A
Yeah, I don't know, they always come up with something.
- [10:21]
B
Yeah.
- [10:22]
A
No, that wasn't a ufo. That was a very rare condition that happens when the sun and the moon align and the humidity is at a certain level and all these things that you never see. You know, I'm older and I've never seen this ever. I've seen a lot of lightning storms.
- [10:40]
B
Well, same and I, you know, Saskatchewan, our license plates say we're the land of living skies because we have really big, beautiful, dramatic skies here because we're so flat you can see everything. I've seen a lot of weather events. I've, I've never seen one of these.
- [10:57]
A
I know, I, I, well, I'm not gonna let go of this smoke ring thing. I'm going to, I'm busy in between episodes trying to find someone who will back me up on this smoke ring, which they say. Oh, it's, you know, when there's a fireworks explosion or an electrical transformer blows up, they always make these smoke rings. And I, I'm going to say it till I'm blue in the face is okay, I believe you 100%. But maybe if this is a craft, this UFO is a craft, maybe when it's leaving our dimension or our atmosphere or whatever, it's causing the same thing to happen that happens when a transformer blows up. That's all, that's all I'm saying. And I just have to find, convince someone to come along with me on that, on that theory.
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B
Well, also they mentioned the first photo was taken by the Same photographer in 2023 in the same area.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So what are the odds of that kind of weather phenomena occurring two years apart?
- [12:09]
A
It's very, very coincidental, as they say. So the news that I have is something that has been in the news for a long time, but this particular one is more recently. So on Friday, November 21, the Dutch military at the Vokel Air base, they opened fire on what they're calling drones. Now this is this gray area where is it? Man made drones. Are they calling them drones? Is it really something else? Is it a ufo? It's this area where who knows? And they, and they don't make the, they don't clear up the, the water, as it were, any better with the story because they're not exactly sure because the Dutch military opened fire and they didn't hit anything. They didn't find anything on the ground. Everything just disappeared. So the, the Dutch military and the Dutch police, they've started a big, opened up a big investigation. Now these drones, they were spotted between 7 and 9pm on the. The 21st. And as I looked into this, they were actually seen before this also. And apparently these are seen at a lot of places all across Europe. And they're trying to say, the officials are trying to say that they believe these are Russian drones. And then other people are saying they don't think it's the Russians because they kind of disappear, they get away too easily. And a lot more of these military bases are firing upon them or trying to do things that would bring them down, but they're not having much success. So this seems to be a story that just won't go away. And I like how they keep referring to them as drones, but then it's kind of. There's a mysterious area where they're saying, yeah, but we didn't, we fired on them, but we didn't find anything. So I, that's the part that is kind of hard to believe because you think, well, I can see that they would miss sometimes, but you know, do they miss every time? Like they can't find anything after they shot up the sky? This is a very interesting story that doesn't seem like it wants to go away. So now, Christine, it's time to give a shout out to a small town or city where we have listeners. And this week our shout out is to Huntsville, Ontario. And it has a population of 21,147 people. And it is 215km or 134 miles north of Toronto. And it is a spectacular little town. It's, it's one of those rare towns in kind of northern Ontario. Now when I say northern Ontario, people who live in the real part of northern Ontario get mad because people like me who live in the vicinity of Toronto and in southern Ontario, if we go like 300 miles north, we call that northern Ontario.
- [15:38]
B
It's like people here calling Saskatoon northern.
- [15:42]
A
So people in Tim and Sudbury and Thunder Bay, every time I say that, they just shake their head and they go, what? No, no, no, no. Add another 1500 miles onto that before you get into northern Ontario. But anyways, Huntsville, which I think is north, well, it's north of Me. So northern Ontario. And it has the distinction of being really great in the summer. A great place because there's all kinds of lakes around it and just everything great about nature. And in the winter, it's great because there's lots of snowmobile trails, there's skiing everything. So you can do stuff in either season. It doesn't seem to end. And one of the things it's best known for is they call it the gateway to Algonquin park, which is not that far away. And Algonquin park, that is world famous. It is just spectacular. Huge, huge place. And also the Deerhurst Resort is in Huntsville. And for you fans, Shania Twain lived in Huntsville, Ontario for. Between 1987, I think 1990, and she performed at the Deerhurst Resort. Now this is before she became super famous. And there's also a Mary Lake, Lake Vernon and Fairy Lake are two of the biggest or three of the biggest lakes around there. But there's actually tons of smaller lakes all in that area. It is quite beautiful. And they have an old steam train, if you're into that. There's an old steam train that you can take. I think it only runs in the summer months, but it is spectacular, for sure. It's. I. I'd like to go now.
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B
Well, it's. It's already been immortalized in art. If you know anything about the Canadian art scene. The Group of Seven, featuring famed Canadian artists such as Tom Thompson, painted frequently in Huntsville.
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A
Yes.
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B
Yeah. The Group of Seven outdoor gallery has 40 over 40 outdoor murals celebrating their work. And the local. They have a local community visual arts group. And you mentioned Shania Twain, One of my favorite. I was saying, if you listen to cbc, as I do in the store. Hoxley Workman is also from Huntsville.
- [18:17]
A
Wow.
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B
And of course, dear, dear listeners, you know how much I love community newspapers. They have the Huntsville Forester there and also two, four, five radio stations.
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A
Wow.
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B
Yeah. Two are CBC and then three are Moose fm, Life FM and Hunters Bay Radio.
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A
Nice.
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B
Yeah. That's pretty good for a community that size.
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A
And of course, they have a bakery. Yes, of course they have several bakeries, actually. But one of these bakeries. Wow. It's not like the other. And it is called the Windmill Bakery and Bistro.
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B
Oh, you had me at bistro.
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A
Yes. And it's a fantastic location. You, you, you have to look at their site is. It's a great building. It's in a kind of a forested kind of area. It looks amazing. And of course, they have incredible pictures of. They make all kinds of food but in their pastries, they make a few. I've jotted down here. They make a mini Dutch apple pie, which looks very good. Then they make something different. It's called a ginger mousse cookie. And the feet and the antlers of the cookie are dipped in chocolate. Yeah, that looks good. And then they have maple glazed donuts. And then they have something. And I've been told these are really just Canadian. They don't really have these in the US or anywhere else in the world. They have many different kinds of butter tarts and butter tarts. I don't even know how to explain this to someone who. Who had never had a butter tart before.
- [20:13]
B
Well, they're. They're pastry crust. And then the filling is butter or margarine, but way better with butter. Either corn syrup or brown sugar. That's kind of a nice gooey base for either. You can leave them like that. Most people put raisins in them. You can also put nuts in them, but usually raisins. And they just are really hard to describe because they're so darn delicious.
- [20:39]
A
I know, it is. It's amazing, right? The flavor. And there's two kinds. And there's always a debate of who likes it better. There's. Some people like it when you bite into it and the contents are runny, so they run out. Yeah, I like it when it's more firm and it kind of doesn't run. Not runny, but it is. It's. If you've never had one, you have to try at least one. They are pretty amazing. And this Windmill bakery in Bistro, this is their winter, you know, drink season. And they have a few that I think it's going to be worth the drive there. They have a white Christmas latte, a Ferrero Rocher mocha, a spiced cookie latte. And it just wouldn't be complete with. If they didn't have hot apple cider.
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B
No. Yummy.
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A
There's nothing like being outside, being really cold and getting a nice glass of hot apple cider. That just does the trick, as it were. But. And that's all in the one place. You don't even have to go anywhere else to get your coffee. It's all. And you can get lunch there and everything else. But it looks spectacular. And so Huntsville, which I have been to, but I have to confess, I never really stopped. We just kind of drove through it. It did look great. But I'm going to have to go back because it looks truly amazing in winter or summer, and you can't say that about every place. Right.
- [22:15]
B
But when you said winter, do you remember when you picked this place? The first thing I said was, oh, they got so much snow last year and this year already they got so much.
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A
Yes. Yeah, we have to tell everybody that I think in the last couple of weeks they have got a lot of snow. Yeah, if you like snowmobiling. Yes. They got lots of snowmobile trails. And you can have. That's. If that's your ticket, then have all the fun you want.
- [22:45]
B
Yeah. If that's your jam, go north, young man.
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A
And I'll. I'll be in the Windmill Bakery with my hot apple cider and I'll just be watching you. And I'll be like, hey, right on. Yeah, that's great. Don't get too cold. And I just want to say right after the break, we are going to have Christine's review and that will be followed by today's topic that we're going to discuss. So we will be right back after this message.
- [23:22]
C
In the early morning hours of October 3, 1976, Sergeant St. Pierre of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police was sitting at the operations desk in Rishabukto, New Brunswick. The ringing of the phone broke the silence of the office. Sergeant St. Pierre looked at his watch. It was 3:30am on the line was a very excited Joseph Robichaux. He told Sergeant St Pierre something very unusual had happened to him and if he could meet him five miles up Highway 11 on Highway 480. When Sergeant St. Pierre's police car rolled up on Joseph Robicheau, his face was pale and he was quite frightened. Joseph took a breath. At 2:55 that morning, he had been driving west on Highway 480. He noticed a large red glowing object about the size of the moon. He pulled his car to the side of the road and turned off his car. As soon as he turned his car engine off, he the object started to move slowly up and down. Then the object started moving towards him. Fearful for his life, he turned the car on and accelerated in the opposite direction. He soon reached speeds of 115mph. In his rearview mirror, he could see the red glowing object catching up to his car. Within seconds, the UFO was 20ft above the top of his car. Its red glow had lit up the inside of his car and the road all around him. As he approached a small group of homes by the side of the road, he slammed on his brakes and ran to the front door of one of the houses. He looked over his shoulder and the red glowing UFO was hovering silently above his car. Suddenly, the UFO turned on its side and the red glow became more intense. It was the size of a house. As Joseph dropped to his knees in fear, the UFO took off straight up at tremendous speed. Sergeant St Pierre said that Joseph Robicheau could not have faked that kind of fear. Joseph Robichaux would never forget that night. He was never given an explanation of what it could have been or where it had come from.
- [25:48]
A
FOREIGN. It's time once again for a book review from Christine Scott. Christine has written for Prairie Dog Magazine, Cracked, and Home Movies Magazine, and she is the co owner of Centennial Books in Regina, Saskatchewan. Christine, what book do you have for us today?
- [26:19]
B
Today I'll be talking about the Alien Encounters, Hard Science and the Passion of John Mack by Ralph Blumenthal, which was published by High Road Books, which is an imprint of the University of New Mexico press in Albuquerque, 2021. It's 284 pages acknowledgments, bibliography and an index and photos. And, and I think it has one of your favorite things. Did you mention that you always used to like it when every chapter had a title? Yes, yes. This, every chapter has a title in this book, which isn't common anymore.
- [26:55]
A
Nice. Nice. Yeah.
- [26:57]
B
But first we have to talk about before we talk about John Mack, we have to talk about Ralph Blumenthal. Because a lot of people, even if you're not a book reader, if you, you know, been hearing about a bit about UFOs, you all know who this guy is. Ralph Blumenthal used to write for the New York Times. But if you follow UFOs, you would know him from a couple of pieces he did. In December 2017, the New York Times featured an article written by Leslie Keane, helene Cooper and Mr. Blumenthal which revealed the fact that US Department of Defense had spent 22.5 million on a secret program entitled the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification program that investigated UFOs. And then you would also know his name from the David Grush reporting. On June 5, 2023, Blumenthal and Leslie Keane reported that former Air Force officer David Charles Grush claimed the US Has a secret retrieval program with multiple vehicles of non human origin as well as records of dead pilots in its possession. But he's it's very important when we're talking about John writing about John Mack because he's not just a reporter, he's also an academic. He's a lecturer at Baruch College and he lives in New York City. The reason this is important with Mack is that basically Mack was an academic, and because he was an academic from a prestigious institution, he was under more scrutiny than a lot of researchers. Because John Mack didn't start out being interested in UFOs, he was a psychiatrist. He served as the head of the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School from 1977 to 2004. And what a lot of people don't know about him, and we've had this book in the store, in 1977, he won the Pulitzer Prize for his book, A Prince of Our Disorder, which was about Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah, yeah, we've had it. I've never read it. So, you know, you don't think of him. Nobody was thinking him. For UFOs, his expertise was child psychology, adolescent psychology and the psychology of religion. He was a leading researcher on the psychology of teenage suicide and drug addiction, specifically heroin. So he didn't actually get the idea to do UFOs. Someone else proposed it to him. How it started for Mack. There was a conference at MIT in June 1992, basically called Alien Discussions, Proceedings of the Abduction Study Conference, which is what the volume would come to be known as. And what it was doing was it was a professional forum about humans who believe they were. At a minimum. Here's the criteria. Number one, taken against their will by non human beings. Two, brought to an apparent spacecraft, rather enclosed space. Three examiners subjected to telepathic communication, and four could recall the experiences consciously under hypnosis. Some would recount astral travels, bonding with the deity, warnings of planetary doom, and the forcible harvesting of their eggs or sperm. For who? Human alien hybrid reproduction. So Matt Mack didn't set any of this criteria. It was set by this conference and the findings were published later. So he thought, yeah, I'll invite John Mack. And Mac was a biggie. Now, Mac told the conferees at MIT why he thought the abduction phenomenon was not psychiatric. He said any explanation had to account for consistency. The report, signs like scars, accounts from children too young to be delusional, an association with witness UFOs, and the lack of any psychopathology among abductees. So this, this wasn't really common at the time. All you had in abduction literature was people like George Adamski.
- [31:01]
A
I know, yeah.
- [31:03]
B
You know, I was taken to Venus and I met gorgeous women. And then he began. He asked. He met Bud Hopkins not long after this. But here's a guy, like I said, he didn't start it. He was just part of it, you know, like Billy Joel. He didn't start the fire. He was just asked to talk about it. And then it took off for him. And then his big. He wrote two major books on the subject. The one that really got him into trouble kind of was Abduction, Human Encounters with aliens, which was 1994, and passport to the Cosmos, Human Transformation and Alien Encounters. And I mean, he was even on Oprah.
- [31:45]
A
Yes. I think the thing was, he was a very good speaker. So that's. And also for those who don't remember it, because he worked at Harvard, Harvard did not want him to be pursuing this line of thought or be associated at all with him looking into these abductions.
- [32:10]
B
No. And that's a large part of the book. In 1994, the Dean of the Harvard Medical School, Daniel C. Tosterson, appointed a committee of peers to confidentially review max clinical care and clinical investigation of the people who had shared their alien encounters with him, which he put in the book. 1994 abduction apparent. It was the first time in the history of Harvard that a tenured professor was subjected to investigation.
- [32:38]
A
Wow.
- [32:39]
B
The committee chairman was the professor of social medicine at the medical school who is the editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, Arnold Relman. The committee's draft report suggested, quote, to communicate in any way whatsoever to a person who has reported a close encounter with an extraterrestrial life form that this experience might have been real as professionally irresponsible. So when people find out this committee was around, a lot of questions arose from the academic community. And Alan Dershowitz got involved. Wow.
- [33:12]
A
That guy is. Some of these names just keep popping up again and again throughout history.
- [33:19]
C
Yeah.
- [33:20]
B
And Dershowitz said, why is this investigation valid? You know, it's a tenured professor who is not suspected of ethical violation or professional misconduct. It was a 14 month investigation. I don't want to. Again, I don't want to give you too many spoilers, but he was the first person that lent methodology to abduction accounts. And we were talking earlier, before we started. You don't hear a lot about abductions anymore.
- [33:49]
A
No, no, no.
- [33:51]
B
And no one else is doing any research like John Mack does.
- [33:55]
A
This is this book kind of like a. A bit of a biography of John Mack.
- [34:01]
B
It's. It's a. It's a thorough biography, but it's also his methodology, and it's really important. The whole stuff about him being called onto the carpet by Harvard and him having to defend himself is. Is a pretty important thing here because there. I don't think anybody did what John Mack did.
- [34:24]
A
No. Bud Hopkins is the only other person that. That comes to mind.
- [34:29]
B
Yeah. But there. There is a lot, I mean, about his personal life. He was a bit of an Elizabeth Taylor, let me put it that way. Looks like. Yeah, he moved in and out of a lot of relationships and marriages. So, you know, there's some stuff about his personal life, but the whole crux of it was he tried.
- [34:46]
A
He tried to.
- [34:47]
B
Tried to put professional criteria on abduction reporting.
- [34:51]
A
And. And he. And obviously was probably fairly well written.
- [34:56]
B
Yeah, it's very. The book is very well written. I'm trying to remember if I ever read his abduction book to begin with, but he just said, hey, let's look at this and let's take this seriously and see what would come out of it. I'm not necessarily saying I don't have the answers, but I'm going to come up with a clinical approach to this. And in 1994, do you remember the famous Zimbabwean case? The children at the aerial school who claimed they had seen a UFO land near their school and aliens. He traveled there to interview them.
- [35:30]
A
Wow. Nice.
- [35:32]
B
Yeah. So his second book, Passport to the Cosmos, 1999, it was more a philosophical treatise about spirituality and modern worldviews. Kind of the culmination of his work with experiencers of alien encounters. And he dedicated the book to them. He thought alien contact was more transcendent than physical, and that was a little different. Like, I think Bud Hopkins thought it was. The aliens were more a real solid physical thing, and Mack wasn't sure about that.
- [36:03]
A
Now, the other thing is that unfortunately, Mac was killed.
- [36:11]
B
Yes. Yeah, unfortunately. He was actually still in the. The Lawrence of Arabia vigne. He was in London to lecture at a T.E. lawrence Society conference and he was killed by a drunk driver. He was. Yeah. Walking home alone after dinner with friends and. And run down. Lost consciousness at the scene of the crash and was pronounced dead. His family requested leniency to the driver, but, yeah, it's really too bad. He would have been a great interview.
- [36:40]
A
Yes.
- [36:41]
B
Yes. Okay. I would. I have to give this a solid 5 out of 5 discs. It's a combination of Blumenthal's reporting and the subject matter and max methodology. So this is a solid five out of five discs.
- [36:56]
A
Nice.
- [36:57]
B
Yeah, it's a really good read.
- [37:00]
A
And it's good to. I think it's good to keep John Mack's name alive because he was definitely a very interesting person for sure.
- [37:11]
B
And nobody else did this. I mean, Hopkins. Bud Hopkins was still. Was still a civilian researcher, though.
- [37:18]
A
Yes.
- [37:19]
B
I mean, this is an actual psychiatrist trying to say, what do we make of these reports that Keep turning up because some people thought they were screen memories. Some people thought, oh, people, they've just been abused and they're just imagining it's something else. He didn't look at it that way. He wanted to. To sift through it.
- [37:36]
A
Well, thank you, Christine. And Christine will be back in the coming weeks with another book review. So, Christine, on today's big topic, we have something. It's. It's really like a mystery. And everybody loves a mystery, including me. And I. I was telling Christine before the show, I thought, as I did a lot of research on a few different things, I started to feel more and more like Columbo. You know, like you would just want to walk up to the person you're interviewing and just say, you know, I have one more question. And it kind of. Some of this is kind of falling into place and kind of by. By accident. But before we get into too much of that, too further into that, I just want to mention where all of this is taking place. So the town that we're going to mention today, where they actually called it a hamlet, and it is in. In Vidora, Saskatchewan. Now, Vadora is how many hours south of Regina, is it?
- [38:58]
B
It's in the south. It's southwest of here. It's a four and a half hour drive from Regina.
- [39:03]
A
Okay.
- [39:04]
B
And it's actually. It's actually a ghost town at the moment. At its Peak in 1940, it had 200 residents, and now it has one.
- [39:17]
A
Yeah, I. When I looked it up, I thought, wow, this place has seen better times. It's. It's pretty much vanished.
- [39:27]
B
Yeah.
- [39:27]
A
But this report is from 1967, so I think there would have been. I don't know what the population would have been, but there would have been a lot more than one.
- [39:37]
B
Yeah, the one resident now runs the post office. It's between the small towns of Robsart and Consul, Highway 21 and Highway 13. It's known as the Redcoat Trail.
- [39:49]
A
And then the reports that we're going to read from, they mention the RCMP detachment was in council, but that is even gone now. And I looked up council, and that is a small place. I can't believe it ever had an RCMP detachment. They would have been pretty small.
- [40:10]
B
Yeah, it has 50 people right now.
- [40:13]
A
I'm gonna read from this letter. And we actually had. We read this letter on. In season three, on episode six, which was what we called the Putnam incident, and this letter, and I believe we found it. Like, I've never seen or read this anywhere else in Ufology. But this was written by Superintendent R.J. ross and the R stands for Robert. And in his letter which was to the commissioner in of the RCMP in Ottawa. And he wrote this on October 30th, 1967. And the title of it is he's quoting something because it says re. Now as we mentioned on other shows, a lot of these reports, nothing is redacted. Like they have the person's name, their telephone number, their street address, their birthday, you know, their favorite pet. Like everything is in there, nothing redacted. But for some reason in this correspondence the something is redacted in it, which is pretty curious. So there's a redaction and it says sighting of unidentified flying object, Shaunavan District, Saskatchewan, October 16th, 1967. And so Superintendent Ross says and they like to number all their paragraphs in the RCMP. So number one, it says attached are two copies each of Shaunavan Detachment Report dated 17th October 1967 and a memorandum of the commanding officer, Swift Current subdivision in number two, it says it is suggested that consideration should be given to including the sightings of unidentified flying objects as reporting requirement in headquarters operational manual co DND since a Department of National Defense team is in existence to investigate reported sightings of unidentified flying objects. So that letter is a big time smoking gun because the. If you call the public relations office of the Canadian military today and you ask them has there ever been a unit in the Canadian Armed forces that investigated UFOs? Their answer is to their knowledge, no. And I have asked a few times, other people have asked is always no. Now to be fair to these people, so anyone who is involved in the letter that I just wrote, they've not only left their positions in the military and rcmp, they have probably no longer with us because it was so long ago. But. So it's not like they are hiding something from us, it's just that they're just not aware of this. But here is the part where I begin to feel like Colombo a little bit is that letter was written on October 16th or. No, that was written on October 30th, 1967 and it mentioned that the military, Canadian military unit was already in existence. Now here's some food for thought is as I was looking up this stuff that happened in Vidora that we're going to talk about, I also looked up a few other things. And so one of them was the Stephen Michaluk incident, which is a very famous incident in Canadian ufology. And that's where Stephen Michaluk, he saw A craft. The door was open and he got burns on his chest. It was thoroughly investigated by the military and the rcmp. And here is an interesting thing which I kind of put together when I was going over my notes and looking at a few things earlier is five months before the Stephen Michaluk incident, on October 25, 1967, there's an event that happened to a Mr. R.C. putnam, and he was a brakeman on a train. And we did a show on this report. It was in season three, episode six. And the interesting part is he had an encounter with the UFO very close. He was in between cars on a train and the UFO was 30ft away or 40ft away, something like that, flying alongside the. The train. And he suffered extensive physical effects. And unfortunately, he suffered from these for years to come and had to have operations and all kinds of things on it. So this happened, and it was investigated by the Canadian military and also the RCMP. And that was from October 25, 1967. Now that, what I just talked about, that happened five months before the Stephen Michaluk case. And also we have the letter that proves there was a Canadian military unit in existence before the Putnam incident. So here's the curious thing. This Canadian military unit, so they knew about the Putnam case from 10-25-67, and they knew about the physical consequences. They investigated all of those things. But if you read the reports on the Michaluk case, and there's, you know, there's a book written on it, there's all kinds of information on it. The, the military and the rcmp, they never mention anything else. Like no one else has ever had these physical effects. Wow, what could this be? You know, did he do. Did he burn himself near a. Like a propane heater? They're trying to come up with all these ideas. And I thought, well, this is curious because they knew about the Putnam incident already before the Michaluk incident ever happened. So on one level, they're kind of playing dumb. Like, yeah, we don't know what's happening. Maybe he just made this story up. And then on the other hand, there's some other unit or some other group, they know all about this and they know what's happening and they know what's going on. And it wasn't really. Until we looked into this and I started putting things together and I thought, oh, somebody knows about this. This isn't like a mystery or like, wow, how could this happen? Like, it's, it's kind of. The evidence is just kind of looking at you or hitting you in the face, kind of. And so the next thing we're going to do is before we actually read the RCMP report from the Vidora case, we're going to read two letters that have to do with the Vidora case. And also I'm going to bring up something else interesting in this. So I'm, I'm going to read the first one. This one was written on November 30, 1967, and it was sent to the commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. And again, it's got paragraph one and paragraph two. So paragraph one, it says, receipt of the information forwarded under your cover November 24, 1967, concerning unidentified flying objects reported reported in the Vidor District, Saskatchewan area is acknowledged. Number two, this information will be evaluated and incorporated into our master sighting file. You will be informed of any further action taken by Canadian Forces Headquarters in this matter. Now this is signed by WW Colonel WW Turner. And the W stands for William. And he is signing that for the Chief of the Defense Staff. So here's two things that the listener has to, to know. Is this William Turner, I looked into his career and it is absolutely exemplary. This is a guy who was in the Canadian Forces during World War II. He came, you know, he was at Normandy when they invaded. He fought all across Europe. If you look at his, he passed. Sadly, he passed away in 2016. But I looked at his obituary. It is unbelievable to see all the things he did in his career. It would take us, oh, another 15 minutes to go through everything that he had accomplished, major accomplishments. And it had his picture there. And he was right out of, right out of Hollywood casting that square jawed commander looking kind of a guy. And I thought to myself, okay, so this colonel, he was a colonel at this point. He ended his career as a brigadier General. And I thought, so this is a fairly major guy. And he was signing for the chief of the defense staff. So in Canada, the chief of the defense staff, he is in charge of the entire Canadian military. So he is the most important person in the Canadian forces. He reports to the Prime Minister or the Minister of Defense. So a major guy. And so William Turner or Colonel Turner, I thought to myself, how is he involved in this case of a UFO from little tiny Vidora, Saskatchewan? Like that has got to make you think, because this is an important guy. And you're thinking like, it just begs the question, like normally you would think this is going to be handled by some lower echelon person or something like that. This is a major guy in The Canadian military. And he says something interesting in paragraph two. Where he says, this information will be evaluated and incorporated into our master sighting file. Boy, wouldn't you like to ask him, what was that? Like, what is a master sighting file? And this was 67. So you think in 67 they've got a master sighting file like it sounds like? It sounds like, yeah, this is. We're rocking and rolling like this is now. Also, there's another letter that accompanied this report that we're about to read. And I'll get Christine to read that letter.
- [53:04]
B
Okay, reading the second letter. Okay. This letter is dated November 24, 1967. To Colonel McFarland, Director of Security, Canadian Forces Headquarters, Beaver Barracks, Metcalfe Street, Ottawa, Ontario. Dear sir. Re unidentified flying objects, Vadora District, Saskatchewan. 22nd and 29th October, 1967. Forwarded for your information, yours truly. Signed WFG Perry, Inspector, Assistant Officer in Charge, Criminal Investigation Branch.
- [53:45]
A
Now here's another interesting thing. So this WFG Perry, who was an inspector. So an inspector is a fairly high level in the rcmp. Now, he went somewhere in his career like he was not just an average guy either. He ended up being a deputy commissioner at the end of his career. And deputy commissioner is way high at the top. You're just a few people away from the commissioner who runs the whole show, right? So I'm thinking, here is another important person. So two letters from two fairly important people on this little old case from Fedora, Saskatchewan. And it you can't help but think, what is going on? Because, you know, I'm sure these people had a lot of stuff going on. A lot more important. Especially when I looked into Colonel Turner. He was involved in a lot of important things. This just wasn't some guy in the back room like, yeah, go see Colonel Turner. He's back there doing chess. He's just playing tic tac toe with himself. No, no, no. This was a major guy in the Canadian military. It just makes you wonder what is going on, right, with these two letters from these two important guys. WFG Perry, the inspector. Now, I gotta throw some more mystery in here. And the conspiracy theory people, they're gonna be loving this. Get your pen and pencil handy. Because when I looked up the career of WFG Perry, I found out some really interesting things. Not really related to UFOs, but still really interested. Believe it or not, WFG Perry,
- [55:56]
B
a
- [55:57]
A
lot of his documents from the RCMP, they can be found in the United States National Archives, the JFK assassination record section. And the, the ones I looked, I didn't look all of them up because it would take you forever because that's a. The JFK assassination, that's a whole different rabbit hole. But the ones I did look up, the Inspector Perry, he was sending his correspondence to J. Edgar Hoover, the head of the FBI. And I thought, wow, what is going, what is going on here? Because, you know, it's. There are some people who are, you know, there's all different kinds of areas of ufology, right this show, and we're kind of more mainstream, but there's elements of ufology that go way off into the deep end. And I have read that people are trying to connect up the JFK assassination with UFOs and all that. I don't really put a lot of faith into that kind of talk. But when you see this, it just, it makes you kind of laugh to yourself because you think, here's this guy on my UFO correspondence in Canada, and oh, geez, here he is sending all kinds of correspondence to J. Edgar Hoover and all of his correspondence ends up in the JFK assassination records in the US National Archives. And I go, wow, isn't that kind of an interesting coincidence? It does make you think, that's for sure. So now Christina is going to read from the actual RCMP report the one thing we want to mention. And it was. This was very hard for us to figure out. There's a fair bit of. This one is redacted. There's a lot of redactions in it. It's hard to figure out how many people have witnessed this UFO. So it's at least five that we know for sure, 100%. At least five. It could be more. It could be. I think it could be even eight people view this on two separate nights. That's the other thing to keep in mind that maybe why this ruffled so many important feathers is that this ufo, which was seen low to the ground, it was seen on two different days. So it's a very, very good case, that's for sure. So, Christine, if you could read that for us.
- [58:45]
B
Okay. This is RCA, Royal Canadian Mounted Police document three unidentified flying objects, Vidora District, Saskatchewan, 22 and the 29. October 1967, paragraph one. On November 1, 1967, I learned that a number of people living around the hamlet of Vidora, Saskatchewan, had seen an unidentified flying object during the early hours of October 29th. From what I could gather, they had been ridiculed by their neighbors and therefore did not report the matter to this office. Paragraph 2. On November 2nd I interviewed the redacted family who lives 2 miles west and 1 mile north of Vidora. On October 22nd and October 29th, redacted comma, his wife redacted and their three children all saw the lights as mentioned in Redacted's statement as set out below. They all believe these lights were flying objects from outer space. Now we go into a witness statement statement of redacted and then even the birth date is redacted of Consul Saskatchewan statement At approximately 3:00am October 29, 1967, I was driving my car east on number 13 highway four and a half miles east of Console with me and the car were redacted and redacted Both of Robsart, Saskatchewan. All of us noticed a brilliant orange light which appeared to be at Vidora. We all thought it was a fire in the hamlet. As we got closer to Vidora, this light appeared to be moving towards us. It was a very bright orange color and its outline was very similar to a quarter moon. I figured it was on the highway and thought I would run into it if I kept going as we were all scared. I turned off number 13 highway onto old number 13 and drove west and then north north to my home. After we turned around, this object lifted up and proceeded along just ahead of us and about 1/2 mile to the north. As I turned north, this object went north and was approximately one mile to the east of us. It traveled about the same speed as my car, 50 to 55 miles an hour and seemed to have a slight upward downward movement as it traveled. I would guess at it being only 20 to 30ft off the ground when we first saw it. It appeared to me not much longer than the length of a car. After we got home, I woke up my parents and we all watched it. It was about a mile east of the house and was quite low to the ground. It changed color to a very glowing white and eventually gained altitude where it remained stationary for about 20 minutes. I then decided to take Redacted and Redacted home and drove south and east onto number 13 highway and to Vidora which where I drove straight east to the redacted home. The object was still visible about 4am When I started to come home and at this time it was still near Vidora and appeared to be just south and east of the hamlet. While I was driving redacted and redacted home, we saw a smaller object coming from the northeast, although we were not close to it. It was round in shape and much smaller than the other one. It gave off a white light with a deep red glow. The intensity of this light seemed to increase and decrease. The smaller object came up to the other one and remained below it. It appeared as though it stayed a fair distance away from the other larger object. When I came home alone, I watched both objects and although they were not close to me, the light from the large one was so bright it lit up the interior of my car. I came home about 4:30am and at this time both objects were stationary southeast of Vidora. Both objects by this time were quite high. We noticed on the way to Redacted's place that the larger object was higher than the clouds and the smaller one was below the clouds. On October 22, about 3:30am my brother redacted, age redacted and I were coming home from Console. We saw an object similar to the small one we saw on October 29th. This one was following our car north from number 13 highway and remained stationary about 2 miles east of my home. It was fairly low and gave off a white light with a red glow. It was identical in shape and color to the smaller one I saw on October 29th. Again, I got my folks up and we all watched it for about 1/2 hour. It was still there when we went to bed. On both dates I saw these objects. There was no moon at all and both nights were very dark. Witness KB Broderick, Corporal and signed a redacted signature of the witness. Then RCMP paragraph three. All other persons, with the exception of the redacted girl, were interviewed. They gave similar accounts of seeing these objects and would not elaborate further on Redacted's statement. All of these people are highly regarded persons of this area, well known to the writer. They have not fabricated this story and definitely saw two objects of a strange nature. Concluded here K.B. broderick, number 19205 Corporal Console Detachment.
- [64:11]
A
So that is very, very interesting because it's pretty rare that people see the same thing on two different nights. And usually the ones that you read that are seen on two different nights, it's something that was two miles away or three miles away and it was just above the trees. So it could be anything. It could be a tower light or you know, something they can't see. It's too far away, that's why it keeps appearing. But these things were like near the, like in front of their car, following the car like you know, 30ft off the the ground. I think this is part of the reason that this case got so much light on it from these high ranking people, especially when the RCMP guy, so he obviously, from what he said, he knows them personally. And in all the reports that we've covered, I've seen some RCMP guys back up their witnesses, like he's well known in the community or blah, blah, blah. But this guy's actually saying they have not fabricated this story and definitely saw two objects. Like that's about as certain as you could get in a, in a police report. The other part I wanted to mention was when the guy in the car was talking about it lit up the interior of his vehicle. So these are things that, you know, it wasn't the light on the top of a radio tower far away or something like that. I think this is obviously something that is not normal to what these people see. Right. And like, obviously as you know from living in Saskatchewan, a lot of these younger people have to drive to their friend's house and drive all over the place. So this wouldn't have been the only night they were doing this kind of stuff. They probably had lots and lots of experience about driving at night and seeing things and all that kind of stuff. So this really shook them up. You can tell from reading this this is not something they normally, they normally saw. And then he also woke up his parents on both, both nights and they all saw it. So it does make for like a really interesting case. Especially when he actually took a different road because he thought he was going to run into the, whatever it was and then, and that they were scared. Because I have been in situations where you've been on a two lane road in the country at night and you'll see, you know, like the tail lights of a stopped truck or something like that. But it's so far away that you don't really know it's a truck. But you never get scared. Like you just think, oh, it's a truck pulled off to the side of the road or whatever. But somehow because of its movements and how it was operating above the road, they got like a sixth sense that, yeah, we're not driving towards whatever that is, we're going to bypass it.
- [67:45]
B
And it is a pretty good witness statement. Yes, it's very good.
- [67:50]
A
So like I said at the top of this segment, it's, it's all of these pieces of the puzzle and to me the, the UFO situation, it's millions and millions of pieces of puzzles from all over the world. And so we've been looking at these puzzle pieces from mainly Saskatchewan in the RCMP and more and more these are kind of fitting together to make like it seems like we're getting a little bit closer to something. Now when I say a little bit closer, we can still be pretty far off, but to me, dramatically, by looking into this case and the letters that we've read and the other, the Putnam incident that we've done before, it seems like the Canadian military had a unit that was looking into this prior to October 1967. They existed before then. And from what I'm seeing in this report and the other reports that we've done, that this information was always shared with supervisors with the military. Because, you know, on a lot of these reports it says a copy is going to the commissioner, a copy is going to the Department of National Defense. So a lot of this was shared. So when I mentioned earlier that the Putnam incident where the, the gentleman had physical effects that followed him the rest of his life, so they, that unit, they knew about that already when the Stephen Michaluk case came. So if you read the reports of the Michaluk case, you know that they write, at least in the writings that they did, they are surprised, like, wow, what could this be? And something else. But if you're in this unit where you're reading all this from many different sources, you can put the puzzle together a lot better than we have right now because you've got all the puzzle pieces, at least from Saskatchewan and Canada. So they would have known at least two cases where people had had physical effects that affected their bodies. And so that's the two that we know about. Like how many more that never got to the RCMP maybe, or it got to the RCMP and these things were just never filed. Like they, it's like what happened? Okay, this never happened and the paperwork didn't exist and got shredded or whatever. So it does bring up a lot of possibilities. Right? So I think that's probably why these RCMP reports are so important, because first of all, it was a police organization that was mandated with looking into UFO reports at least in the late, from the late 60s to somewhere in the mid. The early 80s, mid to early 80s. And you know, we're going to keep digging and see what we can find because there are things that we've come across, like we've read today, they're starting to fit together a little bit. You know, it's, it's painting a little bit of a picture. And it's unfortunate that some of these documents, they mention a return letter or something like that. And those letters are always missing. You know, it'll mention some other piece of evidence and those pieces of evidence are not kept with these pieces. And so it's possible that that is just a storage problem, that maybe the last pieces of paper got into a different box and that box got lost or somewhere else. It could be that it could not be like a, a conspiracy or an effort to, to hide the truth. But definitely it is very interesting and you know, definitely these reports are well worth looking into and I hope you guys enjoyed today's RCMP report.
- [72:22]
C
Here are the Canadian civil aviation anomalies for the week of November 24th to November 28th, 2025. On November 24th, the Montreal area Control center was informed that an Air Canada Boeing aircraft flying from Athens International Airport to Toronto International Airport flashed the hijack code twice while under the control of the Prestwick Flight Information Region. The Air Canada flight informed the control center that everything was fine, but the armed forces decided to intercept the aircraft as a precautionary measure in the Montreal Flight information region. There was no impact. It was not a real alert. On November 26, at six nautical miles southwest of Winnipeg International Airport, a Perimeter Aviation De Havilland aircraft flying from Flinn Flawn, Manitoba Airport to Winnipeg International Airport and a Kissising Lake Lodge beach aircraft flying from Flin Flawn to Winnipeg reported being illuminated by a laser. Operations duty manager was advised and Winnipeg Police Service was informed. On November 28, Flight WJA2033 reported a green remotely piloted aircraft system was at 3,000ft on approach to Runway 24L. There was no impact on operations and all aircraft proceeded to their destination without further incident.
- [74:06]
A
Well, that's our podcast for this week. Please share, subscribe and do all those great things to help spread the word about UFO Talker. And until next time, this is Michael Ryan. Keep watching the skies.
- [74:22]
C
You have been listening to the UFO Talker. If you have any questions or comments on this episode, you can email us@ufotalkerl.net or visit our website at ufotalker ca. You can support UFO Talker by using the Buy Me a Coffee app with links on our website and in the show notes. We appreciate every listener. Thank you for your support. This has been a Michael Ryan production.
- [74:51]
A
30 that's a rat.