Ep 1007 | Mia Takes a Secret Interest in Fishing to Impress Jase with Her New Skills

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family – Episode 1007 Summary

Episode Title: Mia Takes a Secret Interest in Fishing to Impress Jase with Her New Skills
Release Date: December 13, 2024
Host/Author: Blaze Podcast Network

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Introduction

In Episode 1007 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family, hosts Phil Robertson, Jase Robertson, and special guest Zach Dasher delve deep into themes of faith, family dynamics, personal growth, and the challenges of maintaining Christian values in a secular world. This episode intertwines engaging hunting stories with profound discussions on marriage, sexuality, and spiritual transformation, offering listeners both laughter and thoughtful reflection.

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Hunting Chronicles: Ducks and Deer

The episode kicks off with a light-hearted banter between Jase and Phil about Jase's cracking voice during a recent hunt, humorously comparing it to Miley Cyrus’s raspy tones (00:16). This sets the stage for a heartfelt discussion about their hunting experiences and family traditions.

Duck Hunting vs. Deer Management

Jase shares his evolving role in managing duck hunting on their property, especially as Phil has been less active due to health issues. He explains the delicate balance between hunting for sport and maintaining the harmony of their land (03:04). Jase expresses his preference for duck hunting over deer hunting, emphasizing that ducks are no longer scared by their presence, leading to an abundance of deer that Phil manages with the help of Willie via Jay.

A Father's Gift: The Deer on the Side-by-Side

Phil reveals a touching story about receiving a deer from someone, intended as a gift for Jase's Thanksgiving tradition of cooking deer for his family. Jase recounts the humorous yet meaningful experience of finding the deer on their small four-wheeler (03:47). Despite initial confusion and the deer not being cleaned, the gesture underscores the deep familial bonds and the blending of hunting traditions with Thanksgiving celebrations.

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Fishing with Family: Mia's Secret Talent

A delightful segment unfolds as Jase recounts teaching his daughter Mia to fish, revealing her newfound skills aimed at impressing Jase. Mia’s enthusiasm and quick learning highlight the importance of family traditions and the joy of shared activities. Jase describes the challenges and triumphs of guiding Mia through the fishing process, culminating in her successfully catching a crappie (05:07 – 06:12). This story not only entertains but also illustrates the passing down of traditions and the strengthening of family ties.

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Faith and Leadership: Jase's Pep Talk to the Ulm Football Team

Jase opens up about his experience speaking to the Ulm football team, where he chose to focus on his faith rather than football strategies. Despite anticipating a motivational boost, the team’s performance declined following his talk, sparking a reflective dialogue on the complexities of leadership and the nature of struggle (12:27 – 17:02). Jase emphasizes that all noteworthy achievements come through processes that include embracing struggles, drawing parallels to personal and spiritual growth.

Key Quote:
Jase: “Everything in life that is noteworthy is a process. And you have to embrace the struggle. Sometimes you need the struggle.” (16:23)

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Marriage, Sexuality, and Spiritual Transformation

The conversation shifts to more profound topics as Jase and Phil discuss the biblical perspectives on marriage and sexuality, referencing passages from Colossians and other scriptures. Jase shares personal anecdotes about the challenges of maintaining intimacy and faith within marriage, highlighting the transformative power of a relationship anchored in Christian values (17:14 – 54:57).

Sexual Formation and Communion

Jase delves into the concept of sexual formation, emphasizing that sexuality is intended for communion rather than mere physical satisfaction. He critiques the secular view of sexuality as freedom devoid of purpose, advocating instead for a design anchored in relationship and love as taught in the Bible (25:57 – 54:57). The discussion includes:

• Biblical Teachings: Exploration of Colossians 3 and 1 Thessalonians 4, focusing on purity, sanctification, and honoring God through personal conduct.

• Personal Reflections: Jase and Phil share their experiences of overcoming sexual struggles, the importance of forgiveness, and the role of the Holy Spirit in fostering transformation.

• Cultural Critique: A critical look at modern societal views on sexuality, the pitfalls of sexual liberation, and the impact of movements like MeToo on perceptions of sexual freedom.

Key Quote:
Jase: “Sexuality is meant for communion. It's the point of sexual formation. Sexuality is meant for communion.” (43:29)

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Conclusion: Embracing Transformation Through Faith

As the episode draws to a close, the hosts reinforce the central theme of transformation through faith. They discuss the importance of not conforming to worldly patterns but being renewed in mind and spirit to foster meaningful relationships and personal integrity (37:48 – 54:57). The episode wraps up with a powerful affirmation of living a life unashamed of one's faith, embodying the principles of love, sacrifice, and communal harmony as taught by Jesus.

Final Thought:
Phil: “Ring the bell to get notified about new episodes... Help us out by rating us on iTunes, and don’t miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube.” (54:57) – Skipped as per instructions.

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Notable Highlights:

• Humorous Hunting Stories: Lightens the mood while deepening the portrayal of family dynamics.

• Heartfelt Family Traditions: Emphasizes the importance of maintaining and passing down traditions.

• Profound Faith Discussions: Engages listeners with thoughtful theological insights and personal reflections.

• Cultural Critique on Sexuality: Offers a critical perspective on modern societal norms, encouraging listeners to reflect on their values.

Key Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Jase on Embracing Struggle:
   “Everything in life that is noteworthy is a process. And you have to embrace the struggle. Sometimes you need the struggle.” (16:23)

2. Jase on Sexuality and Communion:
   “Sexuality is meant for communion. It's the point of sexual formation.” (43:29)

3. Jase on Transformation:
   “What we're saying is exactly what you are saying. That’s where he went with this, because he’s like, you got… especially in Colossians, you got these two ways to go about sex.” (38:15)

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Conclusion

Episode 1007 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family masterfully blends engaging anecdotes with deep spiritual discussions, offering listeners a rich tapestry of faith, family, and personal growth. By sharing their hunting stories and delving into the complexities of marriage and sexuality, Phil, Jase, and Zach provide both entertainment and profound insights, encouraging listeners to live unashamedly in their Christian faith.

Transcript

[Jace Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil Robertson]

Welcome back to unashamed, Jace. You know, you got a little Miley Cyrus going on your voice. When your producer says, do you need a cough drop?

[Jace Robertson]

I'm really not sure who Molly Cyrus is, but I'll take your word for it.

[Phil Robertson]

Kind of got a. What'd you call a Zach. Cigarette?

[Jace Robertson]

Stop.

[Phil Robertson]

I said.

[Jace Robertson]

He said Molly.

[Zach Dasher]

Miley Cyrus.

[Jace Robertson]

Oh, Miley.

[Zach Dasher]

It's. It's. It's.

[Phil Robertson]

Used to be Hannah Montana.

[Jace Robertson]

Okay. She's not in the Bible. I'm really not interested. I mean, don't take that the wrong way. I'm sure she's a nice person.

[Phil Robertson]

She's a kind of a big deal. She's got kind of a husky voice, is, like, raspy. I think it may be from cigarettes, but I don't know, maybe.

[Jace Robertson]

You got to remember, in hunting season now I'm more distracted than normal, so, like, I'm some point in my life, I might would have known who that was. But you have.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, you didn't know Joe Biden had a son, so.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, his name is Hunter.

[Phil Robertson]

You missed somehow the.

[Zach Dasher]

Not me.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, I. Maybe I had known that before. I just. I moved on.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

You know, Trump was elected and I've moved on. So I, you know, I don't know. I have a selective memory. So.

[Phil Robertson]

I have two questions for you.

[Jace Robertson]

All right, go ahead.

[Phil Robertson]

So the first one is I heard a story, a little birdie told me that someone left a deer for you on your side by side. So I wanted to, you know, that.

[Jace Robertson]

Was a funny moment. I can't believe you got wind of that box.

[Phil Robertson]

I get wind of everything. I tell you. I have people telling me things.

[Jace Robertson]

We got a lot of gossiping we need to do a podcast on. Well, I guess it's not gossip if it's nothing spiritual related. This is just duck hunting a deer. Well, here's what happened. So we.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, there's deer hunting and then there's like, I come out from duck hunting and there's just a deer laying on my side by side.

[Zach Dasher]

I'm reminded of the. I'm reminded of the guy who. What was his name? Jeff Foxworthy. You might be a redneck. If somebody leaves you a deer on.

[Jace Robertson]

Your side by side, well, then I guess I qualify, so. And I'm proud of it.

[Phil Robertson]

And I would say you might be a beloved redneck because someone was. Did a nice thing for you there.

[Zach Dasher]

That is a nice suggestion.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, where we're at on our property is I kind of run the duck hunting side. Of it. And like I say, you know, Phil has been down, so it's like a role that's kind of weird because I'm sad because my dad's not feeling well. But now I realize that some of the stuff he's had to put up with about. About, you know, people wanting to duck on and poachers and different things we've had been involved with here lately. And, you know, Willie, via Jay, takes care of the deer side.

[Phil Robertson]

Yep.

[Jace Robertson]

And so what we've kind of realized in our relationship is I need to stay out of the deer management Because I don't like deer hunters in general on our property. I love them outside of our property, But I'm saying they don't have anything against deer hunters.

[Phil Robertson]

You just don't like it going on while you're done.

[Jace Robertson]

I don't like them scaring the ducks.

[Phil Robertson]

Yep.

[Jace Robertson]

So when we shoot at ducks, it doesn't scare the deer.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Jace Robertson]

Now, they didn't believe that at first, but now everybody. I mean, we will literally shoot some ducks. And then we've had this happen in the first split three different times. We shoot ducks, and then deer walk out like we're not there.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

They're just walking. And so I kept griping. I said, we have too many deer, because they're not even scared of us now. They're just coming out in the open, and we're not disturbing them at all. And so they don't. You know, we just decided, you stick with the ducks, we'll stick with the deer. The problem is, I like to eat deer, so. But they don't want me anywhere around the deer hunting operation. So Jay got me a. And I like to eat small deer, and I have my tags, and they have their tags. And I'm like, somebody's using these tags for Jace to have a deer for Thanksgiving. Because my kids is like a tradition. When they come in from out of town, they want to eat crappie. And so my daughter, for the first time, which I, you know, I'm. I'm telling a sub story here for the first time in our relationship because they love this tradition. Because I'll cook the Thanksgiving week, which I know was two weeks ago, but it's a great memory here.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

And I snuck off to Willie's pond. Don't tell anybody to catch some crappie at night. Cause I didn't just. I don't want them knowing my business. And I've offered to pay for.

[Phil Robertson]

I think he likes the sneaky part of it.

[Zach Dasher]

Zach, you don't want Hood knowing your business, Will he?

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah, yeah. I don't especially. I don't want him knowing my business when I'm on his property. His business too.

[Zach Dasher]

Cause you're on his property. But I know what you mean.

[Jace Robertson]

That I think.

[Zach Dasher]

And I did see pictures of the slabs you caught, by the way.

[Jace Robertson]

Look. So I go out there and just. I mean, it was just on. And I was like, the Lord knows how much this means to my family. They love for me to cook crappie the week of Thanksgiving. They love me to cook deer over there catching the crappie. And I'm about five in five slabs in. In five cast. And I hear. I hear this. You don't ever hear this at night. Even though it was, hey, dad. And I mean, I jumped a foot. I mean, it's black, dark. And I just hear this voice, hey, dad. And it was my daughter. I was like, are you lost? She said, no, I wanted to come fishing with him. I was like, oh, you. Cause she had just pulled in. Where's dad? He's fishing. Catching y'all some crappie.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

And. And she actually. I'm like, well, come on, only have one rod. But I was like, let me show you how to do this. So I called a cup. Cause it's a little tricky. I was like, you have to put it in the exact spot. Do this. And I thought, have you been fishing? Because she's never been one to want to go fishing. She said, I've been catching fish in Tennessee. I was like, genetics. You're now wanting to show your skills off.

[Phil Robertson]

Genetics.

[Jace Robertson]

I said, well, okay, here you go. And so the first one, she actually. Because I'm tight lining, so it was not difficult. And I'm on a bridge that's probably 12 to 15ft above the water. So not only do you gotta catch the fish, set the hook, you then have to sling it up on the bridge. And you have to fish on the bridge because it's the quickest way to get away if someone comes out of their house. And so she missed the first one. I said, gotta have a little more hook set here. It's more of a. Yeah. Because I said, well, you've been catching in Tennessee. And she's like, well, brim. I was like, you can get away with a lot on a brim. But he's crappy. When you feel that bump go 1001. I said, and then you jerk back. I said, he will resist. And that's how you set the hook. Next bump, boom. She gets him. She had a little trouble slinging the crappie over, you know, but she figured it out. I was like, it's leverage. A leverage thing. And then I called a couple more to show her how to do the proper sling to the bridge. And then. Then she caught a big one. And so that's when we called it a wrap. So we caught the crappie. But back to the deer. Same principle. I was like, need a deer for Thanksgiving. So I basically put out a hit. I want one. Because I. What. What I get from me not being involved in your deer operation is I need a gift, a sacrifice.

[Phil Robertson]

This is your tithe.

[Jace Robertson]

It's the tithe. And it cannot be over £50 because I want to process it myself.

[Phil Robertson]

Yep.

[Jace Robertson]

Do it quick.

[Phil Robertson]

You don't trust anybody else cleaning.

[Jace Robertson]

So I said that to Jay, and he just kind of looked at me like, huh? And that was it. But I said my piece, and we went duck hunting. And Jay didn't go with us that morning, which was a mistake, because he took his daughter deer hunting, which is a good thing. But he hears us about every 10 minutes because it was a flight.

[Phil Robertson]

It was.

[Jace Robertson]

I mean, it was exciting. We're seeing ducks migrating dots, and we're all calling, and then about one out of five bunches that would lock up, and we actually started shooting them. So he's hearing this, so I know he's getting frustrated.

[Phil Robertson]

El fomo.

[Jace Robertson]

Yep. The worst thing you can do when you're deer hunting. And he's basically a deer watcher. They're shooting cull bucks or whatever their process is, you know, which is just. I find not interesting. And so he got to thinking about that conversation and every volley that goes off. So about 8:00, he couldn't stand anymore. And he said, you still want that deer? And I'm like, I didn't even know what he. I had forgotten the con. I'm in the excitement of duck hunting. And I was like, yeah, that was it. Send him a text. We back to duck hunt. And I forgot all about it. So our. Actually, it was the last day of the first split. The motor would not crank, and so we had to push pole back to the bank, which was perfect timing. You think, is it time to be angry or, you know, we're thankful we got the ducks. We're push polling.

[Phil Robertson]

You don't even mind push pulling.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah, I don't even mind. I'm on top of the world.

[Phil Robertson]

If you'd have had an ophir. That had been a long slog.

[Jace Robertson]

So we pull up to the dock, and I look on the I was like, something is on the four wheeler and here's this 40 pound deer. It's just on the hood of a small four wheeler and it's not even overhanging. It's such a small deer. And a lot of you deer enthusiasts like oh, they're the best tasting deer. That's what it's all about. We have a tag, it's legal. So. But I thought he did that because the last time he got me a deer he cleaned it which I thought was a better gift. You see what I mean?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

So I think he was saying like, yeah, you are getting the ducks. Here's your deer.

[Phil Robertson]

That's what I wanted to hear your take.

[Jace Robertson]

That was the hidden. Well, I'm not going to say, oh, you didn't clean it. Well, I would never say that.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Jace Robertson]

I can clean a deer. But it has been a while. But I had my son and they were going to movies and I didn't have time to clean the deer. I was going to go visit my parents. I was like, well I guess I'm going to take this deer home and clean the deer. So I cut me a piece of rope and I'd never. I live in town. It's not exactly. I think I've cleaned one deer in town and it caused a big stink with the hoa. I think they actually did an episode recreation of duck the duck diet. I had a deer hanging on my yard and you would have thought we need to call 911. And so I thought, well here we go again. And so I hung this deer up and I realized that I'm a bit rusty. I mean it took me about an hour just to find the right tools. And I had to hang the deer up by myself. Even though it was light, you know, I'm hanging the deer up, couldn't remember. So I just kind of was chuckling the whole time as I'm cleaning this deer. I was like, you know, I'm not sure if this was a gift giving given in thankfulness other than you missed the duck hunt, you're mad because I want a deer and this the price of me not getting involved with Yalls operation. But guess what it was.

[Phil Robertson]

Was it delicious?

[Jace Robertson]

Delicious.

[Phil Robertson]

All right, so I got one more question for you before we go to break because I didn't know you were aware of this or not, but did you realize that since you gave a pep talk to the Ulm football team they have not won a game?

[Jace Robertson]

I have realized that.

[Phil Robertson]

They had five. They were like five and three when you Talked to them. They finished the season five and seven. So I'm not sure you have a future as a motivational speaker for football teams because.

[Jace Robertson]

All right, I want to address this. I'm glad you brought it up.

[Phil Robertson]

So we've made the point many times that the Christmas story is the story of the son of God coming to earth but doing it through the womb of really an unplanned pregnancy. I mean, yeah. And we guessed to be a teenage mom. Right. Which was amazing that all the ways that God could have chosen to appear here, he chose that way.

[Jace Robertson]

I mean, I think back to our past and I mean, when I was born, my parents lives, it was bumpy. And I'm really grateful that no matter what, through all the chaos before coming to Christ, that they chose to give me life absolutely.

[Phil Robertson]

And be here. And me too. And so we, you know, can imagine a young woman facing an unplanned pregnancy. She feels alone, unsure of what to do. She's searching for hope and not sure where to get it. And that's where our good friends at Pre Born Ministries come in. Now, they've had many amazing stories of women who have chosen life for their babies. Here's one of them. Deanna already had eight children, and she was in a tumultuous marriage. The thought of another child was more than she could bear. She tried to order the abortion pill, but by God's design, it never came. At 18 weeks alone, Deanna visited a Pre Born Network clinic. While getting her sonogram, her baby waved at her. Then she remembered that this was the baby that she had asked God for. God saved her baby that day, and he also saved her. So these are babies in their mother's womb who need our help right now. As the year comes to a close, please consider a leadership gift to save babies in a big way. Your tax deductible donation of 15,000 will place a machine in a needy women's center, saving countless lives for years to come. And now, through a match, your gift is doubled or you can sponsor one ultrasound for just $28. Let's join together and help mothers choose life. To donate securely dial £250. Say the keyword baby. That's £250, keyword baby. Or go to preborn.com unashamed.

[Jace Robertson]

So there I was. I got asked to speak to this group of young men and, you know, what do you do? And the coach had actually asked me, what exactly are you going to talk about? And he was kind of giving me some ideas about football. And I was Like, I'm not going to talk about football. So I want to say that first off, you know, I talked about.

[Phil Robertson]

He's a coach, he talks about football.

[Jace Robertson]

I talked about being a young man in this world. And of course, I shared my faith in Jesus. And I did it in a way where I didn't want to think I'm pushing this on you or this is. This is what I did. And. And I just. That's what I did. Now, granted, it did start a losing streak. However, you got to remember that everything in life that is noteworthy is a process. And you have to embrace the struggle. Sometimes you need the struggle. What was that quote about? Victory is celebrated in the light, but it's one in the darkness. And so I feel like I'm part of.

[Phil Robertson]

Did you use that line on the Ulm?

[Jace Robertson]

No, that is a quote somewhere. And I'm not sure the exact context of it, but I think I got it right. But I think there always has to be a wilderness before there is freedom and liberation. I mean, just read the Bible. There's a lot of struggle in the wilderness. So I think it is a process. And I think five wins for Ulm this year was awesome.

[Phil Robertson]

It was.

[Jace Robertson]

You think, oh, that's, you know, what they. 5 and 7. They were 2 and 10 year before. So I really. I think the coach is going in the right direction.

[Phil Robertson]

Agreed, people.

[Jace Robertson]

So I'm saying I went long term out. You have to have sometimes the struggle first. It's a lot like marriage.

[Phil Robertson]

You rose above the wins and losses and you were more of a big picture guy.

[Jace Robertson]

We brought up marriage and we actually, you know, the. Paul brought up putting to death, therefore, whatever belongs to the earthly nature. We're setting our minds and hearts on Jesus above and we have the Holy Spirit. But then he, look, he goes through how this looks practically. And there are some things that we have to clean up on a daily basis. There's a struggle involved here. And we've likened this to marriage. And look, as much as I enjoyed my first year of marriage, when I look back on it, that was the most difficult year of my marriage.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

Was the first year.

[Phil Robertson]

And it is for a lot of couples.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah. I mean, we were probably five and seven.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

You know, maybe. Maybe even four and maybe three and nine. You know, but we were loyal to each other, which I think is the overall riding factor in Jesus. But it's a. There's a struggle. And that embracing that struggle is part of the growth, even in Jesus. When I look at my first year of being In Jesus, it was the biggest struggle. Year one and year two was maybe a little worse. But I will say this after the second year, so I was 16, 17 years old in there. You know, I had a moment of clarity as far as growth and what it means to live what I now believe. This, this is, this must be lived out. In my life I played defense. I've shared this many times, you know, through podcasts, but I play defense as a Christian. And so that is my answer to the Ulm dilemma. I'm saying, Al, if you build it, it will flourish. But sometimes it's bumpy. In year one, rise above.

[Phil Robertson]

And to your point, to get us back into Colossians, we were in my sermon, I preached. You mentioned on the last podcast that I had talked about that Lisa and I just celebrated 40 years of marriage. But to be honest, the first 15 for us was a struggle bus. So, you know, it was more than just a year for us. It was 15 years of back and forth before finally the dam broke and then God had to rebuild the whole thing. So.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, I brought up on the last podcast this epiphany I had that he makes this transition and we're here in Colossians, I would call this a major transition of the, of the letter. Yeah, it goes from three and a tenth chapters of who Jesus is. Because that is always the motivation here. Yeah, that Jesus is the transformer, he is the foundation, he's the rock. He's at the right hand of God. This is and will be all about Jesus being the image of God and our participation in that. And we are married to him as members of his church and kingdom. But he makes that transition on what this looks like. And he has this statement put to death, therefore whatever belongs to your earthly nature. And he starts off with four usually sexual oriented issues. Sex, that's not right. In general, impurity, lust, evil desires. Now then he gets into money and greed, which is another struggle in marriage also because he's going to give this picture of this old life and this new life. But then he gets into relationships in verses 18 through the end of the chapter.

[Phil Robertson]

And I would say, Jace, I would add that concept of greed is, you think about it, money. And you're right, I think he makes that little bit of transition. But it's the same spirit of greed that's involved in those first four. It's never enough. In other words, once you go down this road of sexual deviancy and I've got to, this is the life I'm going to live, it never Seems like it's enough. I mean, greed applies to that whole realm as well. So I think that's a word that applies in both of those realms. Whether it's the love of money.

[Jace Robertson]

Exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

Just the love of sex.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, because it comes back to relationships. Now think about how Jesus summed up the law. They had the law, okay? The people couldn't keep it. They weren't faithful to God. The relationship didn't work out too well. But through that, because God not only is creator, he is a redeemer. He comes to earth in bodily form. All the fullness lived in Jesus. And Jesus sums up the law. And the king is here, and he's like, remember what he said? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. And so that's. That's this transition is your relationship with God. And it. The magic in that is through Jesus, in Jesus, you become a new creation. Well, it then affects or gives you opportunity to show God's love in all your relationships, even your neighbor.

[Zach Dasher]

Why?

[Jace Robertson]

He said, love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus reflected that even in his death. He showed the relationship that he had towards his enemies. He said, forgive them. Which you. You talked about in your sermon about forgiveness.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Jace Robertson]

It's hard enough to forgive those you love. It's really difficult to forgive your enemies because, let's face it, we have trouble loving our neighbor and especially our enemies. So I think that's kind of the overall view of what we're reading. I mean, he started off with sex because I think that does illustrate, like Zach really said. Well, in that it reflects God and who he is in this relationship aspect, this intimacy, even in our transformation, him living in us, you know. And so when I look back, you know, we all have three different histories, I guess, as far as our marriage and our sexual history, which is. Affects us. I'm a guy who seems really weird in our world because the only woman I've ever been with is my wife. And in a sexual way, it started on our honeymoon night. And, you know, without getting too much in the details, I mean, my wife has said many times, she's like, if anything ever happens to you, I'm done. And, like, when she first said that, I was like, babe, circumstances change. I'll be dead. I don't care. The Bible actually is like, okay, he's dead. You know, you can marry somebody else. She's like, it's so intimate and it's so private and it's so secret and it's so special. I Just don't want to go through that process again, you know what I mean? And she's not saying that from a negative viewpoint. It's just hard for her to imagine because I'm the only guy she's ever known. And so I listened to that sermon by John Tyson, which I recommended in the last podcast, Sexual Formation. That was the name of it, and it was very blunt and graphic. And I mean, he talks about every sexual idea from identity to living, you know, together, not being married to pornography to masturbation to same sex marriage, all this. And he has it in categories. And he's very well spoken, so a lot of the words, I wasn't real sure what he meant, but it was all centered on Jesus. And so I'm not. I mean, I listened to it this morning, so it wasn't like I was sitting there taking notes, but I thought, okay, here's a guy in New York City and he says, the number one problem that I as a pastor have counseling session with these people who are coming to Christ with all this sexual baggage. And I thought it was really well done and I recommend it. And he actually brought up Colossians 3, but he also brought up 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Thessalonians 4, which seems to give this same idea of this relationship oriented idea.

[Phil Robertson]

Zach, have you noticed that holiday shopping has changed through the years? Now most people do their shopping online. I don't know how Jill shops or you guys do in your family, but that's typically the way most people are doing their Christmas shopping now.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, yeah, we've been doing it for years online, so we're already adopters of what we call E commerce.

[Phil Robertson]

So the problem is there is a heightened risk of data theft and fraud because hackers know that you're shopping in a hurry during the holidays. So it becomes easier than ever to hijack your connection, which is why we love ExpressVPN, especially when you're on unsecured public wifi and bank passwords and all the things that are out there. ExpressVPN is an easy to use app that encrypts and reroutes all of your online traffic through secure servers, making it virtually impossible to hack into your connection. So whether you're at a coffee shop searching for the perfect gift or you're at the airport finalizing travel details, you can be sure that your personal information is fully protected. ExpressVPN also keeps your online activity private from third parties like your Internet provider and the data brokers who want nothing more than to bombard you with even more targeted ads during the holiday rush. But with ExpressVPN, not even Santa will know what you're browsing. And it just takes one click. You can use it on up to eight devices simultaneously, so you can protect you and your whole family and your laptops, phones, tablets, and even TVs. It's no wonder ExpressVPN is consistently rated the number one VPN on the market by top tech reviewers like CNET and the Verge. Zach, I know you use it yourself, correct?

[Jace Robertson]

Correct.

[Phil Robertson]

Yep.

[Zach Dasher]

I don't want anybody that I don't know knowing what I'm doing. You know, that's the thing about it. Your data's stolen by people all the time. And just the security risk that you have out there. See, I can't. I highly recommend this product.

[Phil Robertson]

There's never been a better time to stay safe this holiday season, because right now, you can use our special Link to get three extra months of ExpressVPN for free. Just go to ExpressVPN.com Unashamed to take advantage of this special deal. That's ExpressVPN.com Unashamed for three months, absolutely free. Well, and so I want you to read that other text in. Was it 1st Corinthians 6, you said.

[Jace Robertson]

Let me read the 1st Thessalonians 4. I think this was the basis, his main thrust, which, look, I want to say this. One of the reasons I thought it was real well done, although very blunt, and I'm not sure how many people made it to the end in his audience just based on a couple comments he made. The first thing he read was actually when Jesus said in Matthew 5, Sermon on the Mount, when he said, look, this idea about the law says that if you. About committing adultery, you know, and he makes this kind of illustration, he said, yeah, that's one thing. But I'm saying if you look lustfully at a woman, you're committing adultery in your heart. Well, then it goes into this. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. And if your eye causes you to, you know, sin, gouge it out. It's so graphic that Jesus would say that. And it was uncomfortable, you know, for me to realize his audience in New York City, they're like, I mean, is that in the Bible? I mean, it's Jesus. He's just, like, throwing down the haymakers here. I mean, you can't even look lustfully on a woman. He's making that the equivalent to adultery. I mean, this seems crazy, but it was real clever on his part. Because he started there. Because when he got to the end, and I want to say this because you may not make it to the end if I don't say this, but he said, you know, Jesus came on as strong his standard for sex, about being about a man and a woman for life and exclusive. And he held that at the highest standard possible and didn't waver. But in his actions in love and his redemptive process, meanwhile, he also reached out to a woman caught in adultery who the Pharisees were fixed in a stone. And he created a way and a space for her to find a transformation process in love. And would. Would culminate that story at the end by saying, go now, go. Leave your life of sin. A lot like Colossians. He also would get to the story about the woman who was. However it portrays her, but she was basically a prostitute. Sinful woman, it says, but when you kind of dig deeper into the Greek and all that.

[Phil Robertson]

Luke 7.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah. And she allows. He allows her to cry and to wash his feet with her tears and, you know, putting her hair down, which was culturally only what women of the night did. And all these Pharisees are like, what do you do? You can't be a prophet and allow this woman what. They were embarrassed and uncomfortable. And so I really thought that was well done. Because the standard is there. It is a reflection of us being made in the image of God and what we have in a unique relationship with God in Christ in that we are literally married to him. And he made this point about a lot of people make a big deal about when Jesus said, there's no marriage in heaven. He said, but he wasn't saying that for we're not going to have any this same type of physical marriage and with sex, and there'll be no need to reproduce. But he was saying, but we're married to Jesus in heaven forever. And it's. It's way beyond.

[Zach Dasher]

It's bigger.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah, it's bigger. I thought it was an awesome point. That is, it goes on beyond this physical thing that we experience here on the earth.

[Zach Dasher]

When Jesus says the whole thing that if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. If your hand causes you to steal, cut it off. The real nugget, and I think Jesus is teaching there, is that your eye doesn't cause you to sin and your hand doesn't cause you to steal. I mean, think about the absurdity of that. Like, that's not why my hand doesn't do anything on its own. Right. What causes us to Sin, and this is the part we do cut off is the evil desires. In James, it says, each person is tempted when he is lured. This is James 1:14, and enticed by his own desire, then desire, I think Yah's translation says evil desire. Then desire, when it is conceived, gives birth to sin, and then sin, when it's fully grown, brings forth death. And that's the same language of evil desire in Colossians 3. And what I think is interesting about formation of sexual formation or any spiritual formation, the question we should ask is, formation unto what? Like, what is the point of any kind of formation and the point of all of it, the whole point of the cosmos, the point of our existence, the point of the physical universe, is so that we can commune with God. It's communion. That's the thing that we're after. And if you think about the discussion on sexuality, if you start to anchor it not in necessarily a moral framework, meaning this is right and this is wrong, but anchor it in more of a intent, design, purpose format. Like, what's the intention? What's the design?

[Phil Robertson]

Why.

[Zach Dasher]

Why sexuality? Well, it is. Its intention is for communion, which results, as I mentioned in the last podcast, in the very procreation of life itself. Life comes from the sexual union of a man and a woman. That's basic biology. That's where. That's where life comes from. And when you read in Colossians, I think this is key. If you skip back a few verses in Colossians 1:21, it says that you were once alienated and hostile in mind, so that you think, man, what is the nature of sin? What is the nature of idolatry? What is the nature of. Of sexuality outside of what God intended it to be? It ultimately will make you an enemy in your own mind. And I want to read just a few more verses that kind of back this up. Ephesians 4 says that the Gentiles don't walk in the way of the Gentiles, who in the futility of their minds, they are darkened in their understanding. Here's the same language, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their heart. Then you skip over here to Hebrews 7. It says this in verse 18. For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law made nothing perfect. But on the other hand, a better hope is introduced through which we now draw near to God. And I love that language of drawing near to God. So what does the new hope do if sin causes us to recoil? Which it did in the garden, by the way, right in the garden, when they sinned for the very first time, they ran and they hid. They recoiled, they withdrew from God. But what the new covenant brings is it draws us back into fellowship with God, back in. To communion with God. Which is the language of chapter 10, when it says that we have a clean conscience now or first Peter 3. Well, let me read this first. Hebrews 10, verse 35 says, Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward yet a little while, and the coming one will come, would not delay. But my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul will have no pleasure in him. In other words, don't recoil. But we are not of those verse 39, who shrink back and are destroyed, but those who have faith and preserve life. And then you go to first Peter 3. 21, when it's talking about baptism, it says it. It's a pledge of a good conscience towards God. So I say all that to say this. There's so much in Scripture about this, but the reason why idolatry, and particularly the sexual expression of that, why it's condemned in Scripture. It's not condemned as a joy kill at all. What it's condemned for is because God knows that when you terminate on yourself and your own desire, then that is going to cause you to recoil and you are going to isolate yourself and you're going to withdraw and you're going to do the exact opposite of communion with him first and foremost, and then with each other. That is the point of sexual formation. Sexuality is meant for communion.

[Phil Robertson]

Days before you continue, I wanted to. You used a word earlier that you used the word transform, which was so powerful. When we fall short of formation, there's transformation. And it made me think of Romans 12:2, do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, which is this whole concept.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, and that's what's. I mean, what y'all are saying when you listen to this. It's exactly what you are saying. That's where he went with this, because he's like, you got, especially in Colossians, you got these two ways to go about sex. You got the secular world, which is like, basically, if you have consent, if you have a desire and you have consent, then you can do anything. Well, the question that should be asked is, how's that working for you really deep down? And he had a really Good illustration. He had those. Some New York Times. I actually took a picture of this. Let me see if I can find it. He had a New York Times article about this. I don't believe this person was a believer. Who wrote this. The title of it is what's Lust Got to Do With It. And under here, just to be fair, why would a woman go home with a man, decide she's not attracted to him, but have sex with him anyway? So that's what the article was about. But there was an interesting quote that he read from this woman who wrote this article, which kind of sums up the secular view here. It says, getting naked and having sex with strangers is hard because everybody's like, oh, the illusion of it is. Oh, we just. This is freedom.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, that's free.

[Jace Robertson]

And his point in the sermon, Tyson, was, it produces confusion and display illusion. You know, you're. And a lot of guilt and shame. And, like, I don't know if I should have done that. Not to mention transmitted diseases or what have you. Or fights or jealousy or.

[Zach Dasher]

The thing about this, I mean, like, if you look at, like, a Hugh Hefner. I mean, who looks at Hugh Hefner at the end of his life now, especially with all the stuff coming out and says, man, now that guy had it made. Like, nobody says, that's the life I want. I mean, like. Or Puff Daddy. I mean, we mentioned this in the podcast before. Or Jeffrey Epstein, like, when you see those who have just said, we're gonna. We're gonna pursue unbridled sexual expression, when you see that play out at the very end, why are we not saying no? Why is culture that has told us that this is the good life. Why do we. Why do we back off now? Why don't we say, no?

[Phil Robertson]

No, no, no.

[Zach Dasher]

This is what. This is awesome, guys. What they were doing, you know, the thousand bottles of baby lotion or whatever, that's awesome. We.

[Jace Robertson]

That.

[Zach Dasher]

Man, that's a beautiful picture. Nobody says that.

[Jace Robertson]

Why.

[Phil Robertson]

But you're right, Zach. The projection in the moment was that it was good. But every time these people either get into legal trouble or they die, and then you start hearing the details. It's disgusting.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, exactly. Well, to finish this, turn the lights.

[Zach Dasher]

On, it gets ugly.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah. So the secular world, what happens is it doesn't lead to intimacy, which is why this person's writing this article. Because it's like, what you really want is someone like, you know, I'm going back to my marriage is that I can take all my clothes off and my wife and since we are oblivious of because our temptation is in the last 34 years, would have to be curiosity. Because this is all we've ever known. Which after I heard this sermon, I mean my wife got it, I was like, babe, we ought to be thankful for what we have. Because it's like I don't know what's going on, but after hearing that, I'm really thankful for what we have because we don't have this shame. And we are what we are. There's an intimacy that is triumphing. What this article that I'm reading from here, which I've now lost my place. Sorry, let me scroll back. You know what, why do they have your phone where it resets, you know, after you're unused. Okay, so let me read the quote. Because this, you'll find this fascinating. So getting naked and having sex with strangers is hard. We portray it as fun and we pretend it's fun, but people crave intimacy which is not easy to create in a hookup. That's why Britain just appointed a loneliness minister, which I didn't know they did that. So this is Joanna Coles. But her point I think as well spoken that it is. And when you throw in some of the other stats, he had like 90% which I don't know where they. He got the research, but from 12 to 17 year old males have, have experienced, you know, pornography in some fashion. 90% and it's like. Which affects you. Which he got. I mean he went very graphic in that. Which affects them later with an actual real woman. You know, because you have this fantasy idea and he had a C.S. lewis quote because he got into, you know, masturbation and addressed it. You know, and even though the Bible doesn't really specifically get into that, I think C.S. lewis made a pretty good point about this kind of being self absorbed and. But he made it.

[Zach Dasher]

It's a self isolation. It's the same. It terminates on yourself.

[Jace Robertson]

It's like it's way easier to have this relationship with thousands of fantasy ideas in your mind. Then it. Because he gave a definition of like lust and love. Love is focused on one person and not just in a sexual way, just self giving love, lust.

[Phil Robertson]

It's not really intimacy if it's just you.

[Jace Robertson]

And the quote was lust doesn't care who you are.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

Because it's more about your own self and wants. And I thought that was a really telling definition of how that works because he did mention lust in Colossians. You have the secular view which is the, you know, let's Just you have the desire, you get the consent. This is what they call freedom, which is untrue. Just you simply ask them a question. How's that?

[Zach Dasher]

And that changes that, that. But that, that, whatever the thing, whatever the secular vision of sexual freedom is, it changes.

[Phil Robertson]

Yes, sir.

[Zach Dasher]

Because what happened in the MeToo movement is the MeToo movement ate up the sexual liberation movement. So that, that's the interesting thing about the secular world is we're tracking self.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, but then on the other end, you have, have religious groups or, you know, people using shame as kind of the catalyst and willpower. And without this transformation, this sacred edict that God instituted, he's not trying to shame you. And it's not some kind of rule oriented. It is a reflection of what true relationship, self sacrificing love can be all about. And I think when you look at sex in general, you, you start off as a human. Well, you're oblivious to sex. When you're a kid, you have no idea. A baby has no idea. So you go through this process that we call puberty. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh. And I think he kind of shared his own. He had three instances because he was like, when I was a kid, well, it was hard to see pornography, you know. So he had three instances where he saw a magazine. They were quite funny. It was like the first thing he saw was in a public restroom. He saw a naked woman. And he thought, you know, I didn't know what that exactly. He was like 8 or 9 years old. He's like. But it caused a physical reaction. I mean, I thought, huh, I didn't know that was going on, you know. And he said, so I did what any kid would do. I took it off the wall and put it in my pocket. And he's like, but my parents were believers. So I thought, where could I hide this where they wouldn't find it?

[Phil Robertson]

Oh boy.

[Jace Robertson]

And he said, you know, back to Genesis 3. Now, we had a Bible dictionary that no one ever used. And he said, I literally hid it in a Bible dictionary. And he said, for the record, I have no idea where that Bible dictionary is somewhere, but if someone finds it, they're gonna find a surprise in there.

[Zach Dasher]

Better be careful what you look at.

[Phil Robertson]

Probably on the same page as lust, you know.

[Jace Robertson]

And I remembered being in 8th or 9th grade and I went to a camp out with my buddies, you know, and one of them brought out this book. And it was, you know, with pictures, but it was like a sex book. And I was like, wow, what in the world? You know, but so he gets into all that. But he then, on the other side has, in light of Colossians, this shame idea, even, where people trying to be pure try to guilt people, you know, or create a scenario that is exhausting, that forces you to quit, you know, without Jesus's intervention as the model, doing it right. Or if things go wrong, the transformation.

[Zach Dasher]

Process, or in addition to the shame side of that, I grew up hearing what I've termed the sexual prosperity gospel, which is essentially, hey, wait till you get married to have sex. And then when you do, it's going to be the most amazing.

[Jace Robertson]

He brought that up. It's like the angelic. And he's like, I got news for you. And he said, you know, for. From people I've talked to, people like my wife and I. I mean, you know, it is what it is. It's sex. It's nice, it's great. But, you know, it wasn't like.

[Zach Dasher]

But it takes work in relationship.

[Jace Robertson]

Exactly. It's just like anything else. Going back, talking to the football team, the whole nine yards. I mean, relationships are difficult.

[Phil Robertson]

And it changes over the course of your life together because you physically change, but your intimacy can deepen.

[Jace Robertson]

Exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

An important way.

[Zach Dasher]

Like what you just went through, Al. What you just went through when your wife has a double mastectomy.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

I bet in that moment and that healing process, I bet it wasn't a honeymoon experience for you.

[Phil Robertson]

Not at all. And yet. And yet it was one of the most, to Jace's point, jokingly about the football team. It was one of the most rewarding and intimate times of our lives together.

[Jace Robertson]

That's where I was going with this. You see that this is a temporary thing. You start off when you're a kid, oblivious. Well, look, at some point it's going to become oblivious again, no matter how many pills you order. I'm telling you. I mean, my dad was right. In one of his sex talks, he said, jace, at some point, everything. Ducks and human bodies, they're heading south. Everything's headed south. The last.

[Zach Dasher]

The last time I heard your dad. The last time I heard Phil talk about sex, he said, and this was probably about five years ago, or maybe longer, he said, we're just trying to get through the ordeal now without somebody getting hurt.

[Jace Robertson]

Exactly.

[Zach Dasher]

I thought that was hilarious. But I mean, like, eventually, is this the peak of your existence?

[Jace Robertson]

Well, exactly. I need to read this because we only have three minutes left. I want to read the first Thessalonians 4, because this is really the basis for the whole thing. And I think we should read it and then you can comment. So he says in verse 1 of 1st Thessalonians 4, finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you're living now. We ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do the same more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. So watch what he says. It is God's will that you should be sanctified, set apart, that you should avoid sexual immorality, that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not impassionate lust like the heathen who do not know God. And that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. And before I read, he made a point there, that the church, they're not in charge of setting up this legalistic, shame filled mandate on trying to move people. He said the church should be a reflection of God's plan, that they're married to Jesus and it should above all be a place in the world that is safe, where there's not predators on every street corner like the world is, because we haven't even got into that. When you have this, hey, consent plus desire equals whatever you want to do. Well, what happens in our real world is predators have come out of the woodwork and that's why you have so much abuse. There's human trafficking. I mean it. And I think that was a really good point. It's like in the church, we welcome everyone at the table, but not in our bed. And he quoted that Hebrews 13:12.

[Zach Dasher]

But in the, but even on the flip side of that, even in the church where you've used guilt, shame and other methods to control people sexually, you also see abuse and predators come out.

[Jace Robertson]

So exactly. He made the point.

[Zach Dasher]

Predators are coming.

[Jace Robertson]

He says, the Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man, but God who gives you his holy spirit. That's why I wanted to read this, because when he talks about setting your mind on things above where Jesus is sitting and he says, jesus, who is your life, you have the Holy Spirit inside of you. It's all woven in this context, which is, we don't have time to read 1 Corinthians 6, but it, it actually singles out this relationship and says all Other sins a man commits are outside his body. He who sins sexually sins with his own body. That you remember what it says. If you're united with a prostitute, you're united uniting Jesus himself in that moment. And so the reason we made such a big deal of this is because God made a big deal of this, because it is a reflection of the greater relationship, like Zach has said a couple of times here of what we experience in Jesus. And it is the most captivating thing that happens in life because it is something that we think about as men. Somebody said every seven seconds, you can't look.

[Phil Robertson]

And Zach, you said you can't look to society, you can't look to culture for your answers because it's ever changing. You mentioned about me, too. Being eaten up is the same with the same. Sex was eaten up now with trans. Because before it was like, well, you were born this way, so we have to accept it. And that's the way it is. Forget about this biblical transformational stuff. And now all of a sudden, a new movement comes along and says, no, really, you're not born that way. You're not born the right way.

[Zach Dasher]

I think you have to anchor this whole entire conversation again in this idea of communion. I want to read this two. Two sentences here of this book I've been reading about Tom Bombadil, who's a character in Lord of the Rings and such a beautiful book, by the way, but this is about communion. And he talks about, you know, in Lord of the Rings, the. The evil wizard Saruman, who's like the evil version of.

[Phil Robertson]

Of.

[Zach Dasher]

Of Gandalf the Great. He says he isn't interested in communion. He has a closed book. Or as Treebeard put it, a stone wall with shuttered windows. And then here's the money line right here. You don't commune with things that you intend to use. And I thought, man, I read that and I thought, man, that is it. You don't commune with things that you intend to use. And if you think about what's happening with sexual morality is you're using things, you're using people, and you don't intend to ever commune with them. But in the context of what God has designed, my sexual union with my wife, I don't intend to use her. I intend to commune with her.

[Jace Robertson]

Which is a. Yeah, it's a reflection of God's original plan. He wants to commune. Which I'll say this in closing, it comes back to, if you don't believe there's a God, then all of a sudden your design is lost. When the design is lost, your purpose is lost. When your purpose is lost, there's no accountability. Where there's no accountability, there's no fear of God. Where there's no fear of God, there's no wisdom. And chaos ensues.

[Phil Robertson]

More and more failure. All right, we'll. We'll come back and hit this some more next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on itunes, and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to [e-mail] Unashamed.