Ep 1017 | What Does the Bible Really Say About Slavery, Injustice & Racism?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Episode: Ep 1017 | What Does the Bible Really Say About Slavery, Injustice & Racism?
Release Date: January 3, 2025

In Episode 1017 of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family," hosts delve deep into the complex and sensitive topics of slavery, injustice, and racism as presented in the Bible. Through thoughtful discussion and biblical analysis, the Robertson family—Phil (B), Al (A), Jase (C), and Zach—explore historical contexts, theological interpretations, and modern implications of these enduring issues.

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1. Celebrating a Milestone and Reflecting on Legacy [00:01 – 00:49]

The episode opens with a heartfelt reflection on reaching their thousandth episode milestone. Phil (B) shares his gratitude for the listeners' heartfelt submissions and emphasizes the enduring legacy built by their father.

Phil (B):
“When we did the thousandth episode, we asked you guys to send us stuff... it's just so heart touching to me to hear you just open up and say what it's meant to you, your family...” [00:06]

Phil recounts a meaningful conversation with his father, highlighting the foundational values instilled in them to continue spreading the Gospel through the podcast.

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2. The Metaphor of Fishing and Spiritual Growth [00:49 – 03:35]

Al (A) introduces the concept of spiritual growth as a continuous process, likening it to "casting nets in deeper water." This fishing metaphor draws parallels to Jesus calling his disciples to become "fishers of men," emphasizing the importance of deepening one’s faith and outreach.

Al (A):
“There's a place where you need to cast your nets in deeper water. And I like that because as a fisherman, that was one of the things that led me to Jesus.” [01:45]

He connects this concept to their study of the Book of Colossians, discussing the shared partnership in spreading the Gospel and the collective responsibility to nurture spiritual growth.

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3. Ministry as a Generational Legacy [03:35 – 08:28]

The conversation shifts to the nature of ministry, underscoring its transitory nature and the paramount focus on Jesus Christ. Phil (B) reflects on the fleeting nature of individual movements and the importance of ensuring that the ministry continues beyond any single person.

Phil (B):
“The saddest thing that, to me, could ever happen was to have a powerful movement by a man or woman of God. But it ended with them because it didn't get focused on Jesus, which keeps going.” [03:35]

He highlights the significance of their ongoing studies and discussions, aiming to sustain the legacy of their faith through continuous learning and application.

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4. Understanding Slavery in Biblical Context [08:28 – 20:10]

Al (A) and Phil (B) delve into the Book of Colossians, addressing the delicate subject of slavery. They clarify that biblical references to servanthood under Roman culture differ significantly from the transatlantic slavery known in American history.

Phil (B):
“You have a responsibility to do what's right. And even in that light, I think Christian people should be the greatest employees, and they also should be the greatest employers wherever you find yourself.” [10:39]

Al (A) introduces the "Joseph Principle," paralleling Joseph's story in Genesis with the themes of redemption, forgiveness, and renewal found in the New Testament, particularly in the Letter to Philemon.

Al (A):
“Philemon is... what I call a master class on how to ask for a favor... it's also about having a code of ethics.” [31:56]

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5. Biblical Condemnation of Transatlantic Slavery [20:10 – 25:17]

Jase (C) reinforces the discussion by citing biblical texts that condemn the slave trade, emphasizing that both the Old and New Testaments condemn the kind of slavery practiced in America.

Jase (C):
“The Bible never, never condones the type of slavery that we talk about in the, like the transatlantic slave operation, for example.” [17:24]

The hosts argue that biblical servitude was more akin to an employer-employee relationship, focusing on mutual responsibilities rather than ownership, thereby rejecting the notion that the Bible supports systemic racism or injustice.

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6. Racial Unity and the Gospel’s Role in Overcoming Division [22:41 – 25:17]

Al (A) and Phil (B) discuss the Bible’s vision for racial unity, asserting that Jesus Christ transcends all ethnic and cultural divisions. They criticize modern movements that seek to divide people based on race, advocating instead for the Gospel’s unifying power.

Phil (B):
“Jesus is bringing people together. Jesus is your answer. It literally takes the [heart] of people because... only Jesus heals wounds.” [19:20]

They highlight scriptures from Ephesians and Colossians that emphasize one new humanity in Christ, challenging divisive ideologies and promoting an inclusive community.

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7. Paul's Letter to Philemon: A Model of Christian Partnership [25:17 – 41:45]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing Paul’s Letter to Philemon. The hosts explore themes of forgiveness, reconciliation, and partnership within the Christian community.

Phil (B) outlines how Paul masterfully blends grace with a respectful appeal, exemplifying Christian conflict resolution.

Phil (B):
“I appeal to you on the basis of love... This is what Paul's doing is softening the ask.” [37:10]

Al (A) highlights Paul’s approach in requesting Philemon to accept Onesimus as a brother in Christ, rather than reclaiming him as property, paralleling Jesus' teachings on forgiveness and transformation.

Al (A):
“Paul runs on this runaway slave, brings him to Christ, and then starts mentoring him... he wants him to welcome him as a brother in Christ.” [34:42]

The discussion emphasizes the importance of treating all individuals with dignity and equality in the eyes of God, reinforcing the Gospel’s call to love and unity.

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8. Applying Biblical Principles to Modern Relationships [41:45 – 45:29]

In wrapping up, the Robertson family connects the biblical teachings to contemporary issues of conflict resolution within families and communities. They advocate for addressing disagreements with grace and partnership, mirroring the reconciliation seen in Paul’s Letter to Philemon.

Phil (B):
“We are fellow workers. There's synergy when we're together, and ultimately we have grace for each other.” [41:45]

The hosts conclude by reinforcing that true resolution and healing come through Jesus Christ, encouraging listeners to embody these principles in their daily lives.

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Conclusion

Episode 1017 of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family" offers a comprehensive exploration of what the Bible truly says about slavery, injustice, and racism. By contextualizing historical practices and emphasizing the unifying message of the Gospel, the Robertson family provides valuable insights for navigating these complex issues through a Christian lens. Their emphasis on partnership, grace, and the transformative power of Jesus Christ serves as a guiding framework for listeners seeking to address modern-day injustices with faith and integrity.

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Notable Quotes:

• “If you're not growing, you're dying or you're dead.” — Al (A) [01:45]
• “The Gospel has a way of erasing all of that and bringing different ethnic groups... into one kingdom.” — Jase (C) [24:32]
• “Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt.” — Al (A) [13:53]
• “Jesus is bringing people together. Jesus is your answer.” — Phil (B) [19:20]
• “I appeal to you on the basis of love...” — Phil (B) [37:10]

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This episode serves as a thoughtful guide for listeners seeking to understand and apply biblical teachings on some of the most challenging social issues, fostering a community grounded in faith, love, and unity.

Transcript

[A]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[B]

Welcome back to Unashamed. When we did the thousandth episode, we asked you guys to send us stuff, and. And we've been reading them. They're still coming in. I still get them. And it, man, it's just so heart touching to me to hear you just open up and say what it's meant to you, your family, maybe someone in your family. So we are very blessed that we've been able to do this and still excited about continuing on. We told you, you know, obviously things have changed with dad, you know, but he built in us this legacy to do what we're doing. And recently he told me, I said, well, dad, you know, we're just. We're still doing the podcast. We're still, you know, studying the Bible. And I said, but it's all stuff you set in us in motion to continue to do. He said, keep doing it, son. Keep doing it.

[A]

Well, and it's this, you know, being in Jesus is a growth process, and if you're not growing, you're dying or you're dead. And there's so much in here about spiritual growth. And so we had a mutual brother who put us all in a group text. He said, I really appreciate the podcast because he knew we were fixed to this transition. And I forgot exactly how he phrased it. He said, I said it, but I don't even remember saying it. Shocker. But he said, there's a place where you need to cast your nets in deeper water. And I like that because as a fisherman, that was one of the things that led me to Jesus. And when he started off, I believe it's in Mark, chapter one. And he's like, come, follow me. I'll make you fishers of men.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, you just think, going back to this, what I said, we're going to kind of end today the book of Colossians and do a little bit in Philemon. There's a partnership that we all share. And I'm using that word, you know, knowing that I did a little Greek study on that word in Philemon verse 6, where there's a partnership in the gospel that we all share. And. And that word is translated different ways in the Bible, like fellowship, intimacy, benefactor, jointly contributing. Well, that's what we share in getting the message of Jesus out. And as we grow, you know, sometimes we cast the nets in deeper water as far as the Bible is concerned. And I'm just glad to be a part of that.

[C]

You had, I think, what you said or what I know you're talking about. And he said that you had referenced Tim Keller in that and who's gone on to be with the Lord and, and, and many others like my mom and, and, you know, so I think it was kind of a. He said you guys are. How did he say it? He said something about, you know, people, the people, A lot of those people have passed and are fading fast. So I feel like you guys are casting those nets now, which was a huge compliment. Right. And then I think that's the thing about, like the ministry of the Gospel is never about one man or it literally just. It gets passed down from generation to generation to generation, going all the way back to a man named Jesus. I mean, he started all this, you know, and we just, we're just 2,000 years out in a lineage of just gospel presenters. And it really is an honor.

[B]

Well, and look, the saddest thing that, to me that could ever happen was to be able to have a powerful movement by a man or woman of God. But it ended with them because it didn't get focused on Jesus, which keeps going. So all of us are in this transitory state. We're only on this earth for a certain period of time. And then we, we at the end, we're like Paul, we've been poured out like a drink offering. The end is near, we know it. And then we transition and we're waiting for the resurrection. So what we want is to make sure we're doing what we need to do to keep that going far beyond us. So it is, it is, it is a blessing as well as a burden to be able to keep doing that. I want to mention, because we're in Colossians, we want to finish up our study today. And one of the things we kind of got to this point about how we relate to each other in interaction in chapter three, that led to marriage and family. And then we left off with this idea of. We talked about work and culture and we described how it was different in the first century. And it kind of set us up to go to Philemon, which we want to do today because there's an actual story and it's another letter that Paul writes. This connected back to Colossae. And before we get there, I wanted to mention one thing because when I was studying and preparing for this, I had never really thought about it. And this idea of servanthood, we talk about it being. Slavery is the word that's used here. But this a little different view than how we view it. But it took me back to what I call the Joseph Principle. And I don't know why I never thought about this before, because I guess it was just this fresh look at Philemon and Onesimus, who in this case is a runaway slave or runaway servant. He had belonged to Philemon. And so Paul makes this impassioned plea. And the letter itself, to me, when I read it several times in prep to talk about it today, it's such a book of second chances and forgiveness and renewal and just, you know, some stuff I hadn't really noticed before. But then I look back and I thought, well, that was really Joseph's life. He became one of the originators of that. He's in Genesis 37 through 50. So there's as much written about Joseph as anybody in the entire book of Genesis, which tells you something. I mean, there was something about the guy, but you remember. And I'll just give you the quick, you know, abridged, abridged version of his life. He was a young man. He was 17. He had a gift to be able to interpret dreams. He was one of Jacob's 12 sons, which later would become the 12 tribes of Israel. And he had this ability, and in my opinion, it kind of made him a little cocky and a little bit, you know, self. Sure. Because he had this. And so he kind of needled his brothers and they got to where they hated him and they were going to kill him. That's how much they didn't like him. I mean, you know, Jace, we've had our differences. We were young, but I mean, you know, we hadn't necessarily want to kill anybody, but that's what happened here. And so then the older brother swoops in, says, well, let's don't kill him because that would kill our father, but let's sell him into slavery, as if somehow that wouldn't kill their father. And there was just this hole in this family the entire time. And so the whole rest of the book of Genesis is Joseph's little odyssey into that life, but then them all coming back together at the end. And I just look at that. I think this was a man who was 17 and 13 years he was in this situation. He couldn't control Potiphar's house. He was in prison for a while. He gets to 30 years, though. So 13 years goes by like a chapter in the Bible. But think about what that would have been like living that, where he's under someone else's foot the whole time. The woman tries to get him to sleep with her. And all these things are happening. And at 30, he finally interprets a dream of Pharaoh that turns him into eventually the second in command in all of Egypt as a 30 year old man, which never would have happened. And so from that TO he was 110 years old, he lives this amazing life. He repairs his relationship with his brothers, his dad finds out he's alive, and then he winds up being the core of Israel. 70 people that wind up in Egypt and then come out, you know, of slavery and Moses and all that. So it's just when you look at that story, it's an Old Testament story, but it has so many links to redemption, forgiveness, renewal, morality, all the stuff we've been talking about. Because, you know, Joseph was 17 years old and a woman was trying to sleep with him and he says, how could I do such a thing as sin against God? Where did that come from? Yeah, so this, the idea I was thinking about, a backdrop of an Old Testament, you know, story like that is really sets up what we're going to be talking about today in Philemon.

[A]

Yeah. So he, you know, and just to review the book, he focused on Jesus. He talked about this incredible fullness of the deity living in bodily form, which is Jesus. And in chapter two, he's like, you've been given fullness in Christ as being, being members of the body. And then he moves on to this old self, new self, you know, putting on the new self. And what's this look like in your homes? Of course, we've spent a few podcasts saying what this is not talking about and what it is. Under the Roman culture, they had this servant system set up where it was basically like they were employees. Not to say there probably wasn't a ton of abuses. And just like any other, always. Yeah. And I think people feel uncomfortable about this because they're like, well, why didn't Paul just say slavery's wrong, you shouldn't own people. I mean, Jesus himself, he said, you love your neighbor, you don't own your neighbor. I mean, that's just crazy. But it was about authority and power and it was totally different. Obviously he squelched any idea of what happened in America by saying in Christ In Colossians 3, there's no nationality, Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free. But Christ is all and in all. And so then you have this really cool story because you can tell, I think the reason he talked about this, the servants and the masters and you know, you're coming to Christ and He's like, addressing both people. And the way I'm looking at it is more like today in our modern culture, I would put this under the heading of employee versus employer, which they have both a responsibility to do what's right. And even in that light, I think Christian people should be the greatest employees, and they also should be the greatest employers wherever you find yourself.

[B]

And there's always a constant tension there that we all realize, you know, go for a company or a boss for ourselves and our own family, but at the same time, we're challenged to be that no matter which side of that equation we're on. So, Jason, we were just talking about tax bills, and when you owe money to the irs, you gotta. It's not good.

[A]

Well, the problem is you, you're supposed to have people who tell you, hey, get ready, because in my line of work, I'm liable to, you know, do a TV show or whatever, and then all of a sudden you make some money, and next thing you know, it's a knock at the door.

[B]

AL Exactly.

[C]

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[B]

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[A]

And actually, when he wrote Timothy, I think, is it first Timothy one or two Timothy one, where he lumped in people who are slave traders with the most diabolical and evil things you can do. So I just wanted to say that so people don't try to go here and weaponize somehow or another that God was for this or thinks this is a great idea. It's terrible, and it's an atrocity. And even in this light, you have this story about Onesimus, which he brings up in chapter four and verse nine.

[B]

Yeah, actually read seven through nine, James, because it kind of sets it up before we go to Philemon.

[A]

And I didn't read. Well, I'll just read 2 through 9 just to say, because I think we get into this section, it's more about this partnership idea, because all of a sudden, when he gets to the end in verse two, the greatest weapon you have is obviously praying to your Father, God.

[B]

Which, by the way, we mentioned this before. It's the same way he ended the book of Ephesians with this idea about prayer.

[A]

Exactly. He says in verse two, devote yourselves to prayer, being watchful and thankful, and pray for us. And then this gets in, this idea about God is leading us in triumphal procession to spread, you know, the aroma of his Son. What is that? 2 Corinthians 2. Because it says, so that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, which he had already answered, which is, Christ can be in you through his Holy Spirit, Christ at the right hand of God representing you, and God's opening these doors. And here we are as messengers and partners in the gospel, and we get to share in that and. And think that, you know the verse in First Corinthians 3, where he's like, some people plant somewhat. Some water, but God makes things grow. First Corinthians 6, where he's like, we're God's fellow worker. I think it's Second Corinthians 6, we're God's fellow workers. So we're. There is a partnership in getting the message of Jesus out. And you really see that theme for the rest of the way, because in verse four, it says, pray that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should be wise in the way you act toward outsiders. Here it is again. Why is he saying this? Because we are partners in getting the message of Jesus out. Make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, season with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Which I've really leaned on that passage a lot, because a lot of people say, well, how do you. I think the number one reason people don't Share Jesus is they think they don't know enough, they don't know enough Bible. Or what if they ask me a question I don't know. It's amazing how an introduction to Jesus and your experience with him answers all questions. I'm fully confident no matter what anybody says, I'm going to go back to something Jesus did or said that will answer this question. And most of them are not really important. The questions they're answered.

[C]

I think when you get into these texts, if you're interpreting them as like you said this in a previous podcast on Colossians and a subheading, these are not to be interpreted as rules for how we're supposed to live, but rather descriptive of life in the kingdom, which is a rule of life, but it's not like a rule. And so when you get to this concept of slavery, I mean, you'd mentioned this earlier, I just want to reiterate that, that you mentioned in First Timothy 1, the, the new Testament and the Old Testament actually clearly claims slavery as an evil. In fact, in Exodus 21, it says anyone who kidnaps and sells a person into slavery and has them should be put to death. That's, that's Old Testament. And then in that first Timothy Chapter one passage, he says that, that slave traders are not that that's contrary to sound doctrine. And it's, it's, it's not, it's not biblical, it's not moral. And so the, the Bible never, never condones the type of slavery that we talk about in the, like the transatlantic slave operation, for example. And so, but what you're seeing in a lot of these contexts of relationships and what he is talking about is maybe more of an economic situation. And, and he's talking about how, what, what does our response look like? Which what he's actually saying is overturning probably a lot of the cultural norms of the time.

[A]

Agreed. And I'm glad you reiterated that because most, you know, people, if you just have a, just a thumbnail view of the Bible, you're like, well, what does that talk about? But when you get into the context of what was going on, let's just.

[B]

Be Roman world and let's just be honest here. You say, well, why do you the need to say that? Because 175 years later in our own culture, we're still dealing with ramifications. I mean, it's not like we can just say, well, it doesn't matter. It does matter.

[A]

People have been thinking they're better than other people since the beginning of Time, that's nothing new. Part of this humility and realizing what Christ did and what he died for was this division. You know, he shed his blood, right, so that we could come together under one umbrella. And that's Christ.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've said many times, I mean, Jesus Christ and my parents, because they were always non racist people, I mean, I didn't notice that people were different colors that came into our house because they came in so often. It was, you're, you just love people.

[B]

And our whole life was about Jesus and we realized that Jesus was bringing people together. Yeah.

[A]

What I was going to say is, Jesus, you colorblind some of my best friends. One of my groomsmen in my wedding. You know, romance was one of the greatest people I've ever met in my life and influenced me greatly when I was young in the faith. And so that's the way it should be. And that's what Jesus offers, which I think in a world that is so divided and so racist in so many ways, Jesus is your answer. Yeah, I mean it literally takes the.

[B]

Hearts of people because aren't we watching and seeing people try different things? You get to talk about reparations and money and this, that and that none of those things will heal. Only Jesus heals wounds.

[A]

I think his, his overall point was when you're in these situations where you have a boss and you know, it's, it's difficult because everybody wants to be the boss. And so in this idea of, you know, where you're at as far as roles in life, he's like, look, God is the ultimate one that makes everything right. So if injustice happens to you, God will make everything right always. And no matter what situation you're in, you start off usually at the bottom of the ladder, but you need to show the grace of God and the character of God. You know, if you're in a subservient role in the workplace or whatever. I mean, I don't see a lot of difference in that, in the way the Roman society worked here. But it's very tough, you know, to be that way.

[C]

Yeah, I think when you, when you try to interpret the Bible outside of the framework that, well, Paul gives a lot of, gives a lot of help in this. But like think about that. When we did, when we did Ephesians and in Ephesians 2, 14, 16, it says this and I think this is a great context to read the scripture through that for he himself talking about Jesus is our peace. That's the same language he uses in Colossian the centrality or the reality, however, is found in Christ, for he himself is our peace. Who has made you say why we need peace? Well, here's why. Because there's division. Who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with his commands and regulations. His purpose, here's the purpose of Christ right here, was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, out of the Jew and the Gentile, thus making peace and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. I read that, and I don't even. I mean, like, I. This would be the argument that I would have made if I was living in the times of the abolishment of slavery or the civil rights movement. This would have been the best argument right here. But it also is the best argument against, like, the critical theories that have emerged over the years that seek to take people and put them into two separate groups. The gospel has a way of erasing all of that and bringing different ethnic groups, different genders, different. All types of backgrounds into one kingdom, into one people group, which, according to Paul was the purpose that he created us, was to create one new humanity.

[A]

And in the context of families and.

[B]

You know, and as a country, the attempt was to try to desegregate, try to bring people together. But it's amazing. We go 50 years and now we got a whole group of people wanting to go back and segregate people.

[A]

It's like actually in the context of the Bible, a black person and a white person are actually the same. They're identical.

[B]

Same person, exactly.

[A]

Yeah. And it was the division was the Jew and the Gentile. It's like, so now then people's like, well, I don't know if these groups should, you know, intermarry and all. Well, you're not getting that from the Bible. He's got them under the gentile category.

[C]

There's a really good. Really good couple books that I've read over the last couple years on the subject, but one is by a guy named Carl Truman, who's a professor at, I believe, Grove City College. But he. He writes about this in a book called the Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self. And one of the things that he talks about a lot is that. That what's happened over the last. I mean, he takes it all the way back to, like a French philosopher way back when, during the French Revolution. But he brings it kind of through the whole progression of how he got there. But, but his point, one of his main points is, is that what the current way this has manifested itself is to separate people based on their oppressed status. And one of those would be race. And then you can determine truth by how many times you're, you have an intersection of your oppressive status. And what I think that's done is it's actually separated people who may have actually done life together, but now that they're not allowed to do life together because there's these different cultural dynamics and different things that we have to separate. I read the Bible and it seems to be the entire progression of biblical history is that God had an intention all the way back to the prophets. He had an intention of all of the nations, every nation coming up that hill to worship the one true God. It was the purpose of the temple. He wants all the nations. And so anything that I look at that would seek to divide the nations, that would seek to divide people groups based on their ethnic status and separate us, I'm gonna, I'm gonna push back against that and say that it's not.

[B]

In line with the, and gonna say that was, that's from the evil one.

[A]

So that's where they're from, the evil one. He's out, He's a divider. And that's why Jesus said, all in all, authority on heaven and earth has been given to me. Therefore preach the gospel to all nations. Whoever believes that is baptized will be saved. Something like that. Baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit. So let me read the end of the text. I don't even know how to say this guy's name. Ticket will tell you all the news about me. He's a dear brother, faithful minister, fellow servant in the Lord. Once again, these are the partners in the gospel. Which I think a good question is who are you partners with in the gospel?

[B]

That's a good question.

[A]

I mean I have a inner circle of Jesus loving people that I interact with on a daily basis about how and when we can share Jesus with different people. And I just, I get, I got the idea from here. It's like that these were core groups of people going around planting churches, sharing Jesus. So then verse 8 says, I'm sending him to you for the express purpose that you may know about our circumstances and that he may encourage your hearts. He is coming with Onesimus, which is this what the book of Philemon was about. He was a runaway slave. And Philemon has his own letter that tells Onesimus story And how Paul became so tight with him in the Lord. All right. He's our faithful and dear brother who is one of you. They will tell you everything that is happening. My fellow prisoner, you ready for that one Now? Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. You have received instructions about him. He comes to you. Welcome him. Jesus, who is called justice, also sends greetings. Now listen to this next verse. These are the only Jews among my fellow workers for the Kingdom of God. Which is what we've talked about extensively for months. Not only is the kingdom here through spirit filled people, we are fellow workers. We are partners in this ministry. Which is what? Declaring Jesus, announcing Jesus to the world, being Jesus in the world, since we have his spirit.

[B]

And it also shows you how far along this has come along, Jace. Because he's just saying I've got way more gentile guys around me now than I do Jewish guys. And let me mention this before we leave it, because you said that word, you talked about being partners, the Greek word, because I looked it up, is synergy. And we recognize that from the word synergy, the idea that when you put something together in synergy, it can create something greater than one plus one. In other words, one plus one equals more than just two. And that's that same Greek word here for these fellow workers, by the way. So to back up your point, all.

[A]

Right, so then he says, fellow workers for the Kingdom of God, where they proved a comfort. Yeah, they have proved a comfort to me. Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ. Jesus sends greetings.

[B]

And he's probably the one that started the church there. Epaphras.

[A]

He is. But you keep seeing this humility, this service. He brought up this idea about who has the ultimate authority, which is Jesus. He's the head of over every power and authority. We're just servants of Christ. In whatever situation we're in, we're going to serve Christ. He is always wrestling in prayer for you. I mean, just think about that phrase. He is wrestling in prayer for you. That you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured. Which is another theme we've gone through about maturing in Christ, knowing Him better, becoming him in your world. I vouch for him that he's working hard for you. And for those at Laodicea and Hierarch.

[B]

Which remember we talked about, there were three cities right there, close. And Laodicea was actually the bigger of the cities in Hieropolis.

[A]

Our dear friend Luke, the doctor and Dema send greetings which, you know, these. They don't seem important things, but you begin to read when you read this. These are real people. This is not some made up story. I mean, you go, we know who Luke is.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, we know who Mark is.

[A]

There's too many cross sections over long period of times with the same characters for somebody just to have made this up.

[B]

Plus I love it that the. His inner circle Jays was the ones who wrote most of the bible.

[A]

Exactly. Then 15 give greetings to the brothers at Laodicea and to Nympha and the church in her house, which. Here we go again. The elevation of women. Jesus is probably the greatest person in this time period to value women because they were devalued at this particular time in history. After this letter has been read to you see that is also read in the church that lay out the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea, which is how they kind of operated. They would send this letter and somebody get up and read it. That's why it's comical when you think now, children obey your parents. He literally was reading out loud to the children around there, by the way.

[B]

This is a little side thought, but you know that that letter to Laodicea was just as much important. The letter to the Colossians and Philippians, all the stuff we got. So this thing. Sometimes you get worried we don't have all this stuff. There were a lot of letters written by Paul.

[A]

Yeah, I think all this is interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He said, see to it that you complete the work that you have received in the Lord, which is very profound statement. And he. And he ends this saying, I write this greeting in my own hand. Remember my chains. Yeah, he's chained up while he's writing this as a prisoner for the Lord. Which kind of brings more weight to when he says, whatever you do, work at it with all your heart is working for the Lord, not for men. You know, verse 17. He says, whatever you do, whether word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus. I mean, he's literally in prison while this is going on. And so the thought is, I just think when we think the Lord is blessing me, we usually think money or he got me this job. And here's a guy writing all this while he's chained because of his faith and seemingly quite positive about everything. The entire letter. What a beautiful letter. And then he says, grace be with you, which he had already said before. Let your conversation be always full of grace. And I Think when you do get in these situations with people, especially those that are outside of Jesus, you know, you always lean toward the side of grace. That's what changes people's lives, the grace of Jesus Christ.

[B]

So let me give a quick overview because we only have a few minutes left on this podcast and we want to wrap the book, which we. We've read the book, but this idea of Philemon comes in because that's another short letter, 25 verses.

[A]

And we bring. We're bringing it in because he mentioned that Onesimus, right, is coming up in verse nine. That's the connection.

[B]

So Philemon is a fellow worker, and he's mentioned obviously at the very beginning to Philemon, our dear friend and fellow worker. And this is the same word that synergy. Onesimus. Onesimus is the runaway slave who has wound up in Rome and been converted to Christ by Paul and his group there. And he's become a vital part of their ministry. So that's who he is. But he's from Colossae and he escaped. He left. I mean, he. He didn't fulfill his obligations. So legally, under Roman law, he could be killed for doing this. So this is obviously a grave situation. And then you got Paul, of course, as Jay said, he's in chains and he's built this group that's around him. And this letter to Philemon is basically what I call a master class on how to ask for a favor, because that's what he's doing. I mean, he's asking him for a favor. Ultimately, he's saying, I want you to think about your relationship. I'm sending one Smith back because it's the right thing to do. So it's also about having a code of ethics. But he's also like, look, things have changed since he left because now he's a believer like you, and he's very valuable to what we're doing here. And he tells him, he says, I could just tell you to do this because I'm an apostle. And he had a certain amount of authority in the early church. He said, but I don't want to do that. I want to appeal to you because this is the right thing to do. So there's a lot of really good things that go on this book. And so as we talk about this, at the end of it, I'm going to tell you what happens to Onesimus, Which I don't know if either one of y'all know this, but in it, you know, we think this is what happened, obviously, is through historical record, but which Makes it even more amazing. So anyway, that's kind of an overview of the letter. So, Jason, don't know what you want to get into in our few minutes here.

[A]

Well, I think all we have time for is to. I do think this is about the partnership in Christ. Paul runs up on this runaway slave, brings him to Christ, and then starts mentoring him. And then I think what he does, and we can read the letter here, is he actually puts Jesus on a cross in his real life. And he wants not only to have his former master welcome him, but he wants him to welcome him as a brother in Christ. And he said, and I'll pay for anything he owes you and make it right. Which that's why I brought up the Christ on the cross, because that's basically what Jesus did for us, you know. So let you me read it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. So he says to Philemon in verse two, grace and peace, usual greeting, God our Father, Lord Jesus Christ, always thank my God. Verse 4. As I remember you in my prayers, because I hear about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints. I pray that you may be active in sharing your faith, that you have a full understanding of every good thing we have in Christ. The NIV doesn't translate the word for partnership in there, but it's in there because I looked it up, right? And it's the same 1 in Philippians 1:5, 2, 1. And if you remember Philippians, which we haven't gone into detail with, right. In between those between 15 and 2, 1. He has that section in there, as I pray that you contend as one man for the faith of the Gospel. And that's why I'm saying this is about sharing this partnership, getting the message of Jesus out. So in verse seven, he says, you, love has given me great joy and encouragement because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints. So he brags on him, and then he's like, Therefore, in verse 8, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, which is quite the statement.

[B]

Yet I think that is true because There were only 13 apostles, because there were 12. They lost Judas, they picked up another one.

[A]

And remember, to be an apostle, you had to be an eyewitness of the resurrected Lord. But you're like, well, why would Paul qualify as that road to Damascus? He was an. He was literally an eyewitness to the Lord and had a conversation with him.

[B]

And I'm betting, and this is just conjecture on Al's part, so take it, for what it's worth, but he said he spent three years in Arabian desert. I'm betting there probably was a few more moments where there was some interaction between Jesus and Paul.

[A]

I agree. The verse nine, it says, yet I appeal to you on the basis of love. And we know where love comes from. Read 1st John 4:10. This is love. Not that we love God, but that God loved us and sent his son to die for us. I, then as Paul, an old man, and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus. I appeal to you for my son, Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains. And he's talking about his son in Christ.

[B]

And obviously that means it happened in Rome. So this is fairly recent debate.

[A]

And Paul used that language in several other letters about my children. You know, the people he shared Jesus with and became kind of their.

[B]

What he called Timothy and Titus. That's right.

[A]

Correct. Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me.

[B]

And by the way, this is a bit of humor here, because Onesimus, the word itself means useful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so his name means useful. He says he was useless to you. Well, that's. Now that's. That. That's right. Of our sarcastic chapter right there.

[A]

Because he was a runaway slave.

[B]

That's right. And he's like his. I know his name means useful. That didn't mean much to you because it's pretty useless. Exactly. I love it.

[A]

This gets powerful. Right here I am sending him, who is my very heart, back to you, and knowing that. That he could by law, put him to death. And so then he says, I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I'm in chains for the Gospel. But I did not want to do anything without your consent so that any favor you do will be spontaneous and not forced.

[B]

So brilliant. I mean, as a person who has spent our lifetime getting people to do what they need to do, but making them think it was their idea. This is a masterclass.

[A]

Well, just try to put that in your marriage life.

[B]

Oh, so much.

[A]

Oh, man, there's a whole sermon there somewhere.

[B]

There is.

[A]

Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good. No longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me, but even dear to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord. So if you consider me a partner, that's why I've made such a big deal about this. Welcome him as you would welcome me. I mean, there's going to have to be some forgiveness here. There's going to have to be looking at who we are in the Lord here. We're going to have to tear down a lot of power that you think you have.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I mean, he's just asking for everything. If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, I'll pay for it.

[B]

Well, and that's. Is that not the ultimate. When you're asking somebody for something is to say, now, look, if there's a cost involved, I got it covered. So many times people try to skip that part. But Paul's like, no, I'm all in money, whatever it takes.

[A]

Yeah. And he wasn't just dismissing it, but he was, you know, and you get the impression he was. He was asking, not only do I want you to do this, I want you to give him his freedom.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so he says, I, Paul, write in with my own hand, I will pay it back. Not to mention that you owe me your very self. I do wish.

[B]

So I'll pay. Oh, by the way, you wouldn't even be a Christian if it wasn't for me.

[A]

I do wish.

[C]

You talk like that anymore.

[A]

No, brother. That I may have some benefit from you. And the Lord refresh my heart in Christ, confident of your obedience, I write to you knowing that you will do even more than I ask, which I think that's the insinuation of giving his freedom. And one thing more, prepare a guest room for me while you're at it, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayer, which.

[B]

By the way, that let me tell you what that verse means. Again, I feel so connected to Paul in this letter that's saying that, look, no matter what you decide, I'm still coming. In other words, our relationship's still there. You know, he's laying it out.

[C]

I'll rip you to shreds. But, hey, I'm coming to see you, buddy.

[B]

I'm coming to see you. So what that says is, this is beyond our relationship. I just think this will make it be better for you ones. So I just. I love the way Paul does this because it's so such a good way to try to convince somebody to do the right thing, but it has to be their decision to do the right thing.

[A]

Well, and I think you see, I mean, at the end of this letter, not only does God make you a new creation, if you ever want to have new circumstances and new beginnings and a New humanity and be a part of a new group and find your place. This is what Jesus offers to us. I mean, he is our true Lord and God and wants what's best for us. So he ends it with epaphras. Again, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus sends his greeting and so does any names, his fellow partners and workers. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, be with your spirit.

[B]

So here's the way I broke it down, Jason. This is just Al, but because I connected so much, it's such a great story about, you know, why it was so important for Paul to get involved in this situation, and I'm so glad we talked about it. In relationship to Colossians, he's In verses one through three, he starts with grace, which. When you're gonna. When you're. And by the way, in 23 through 25, he ends with grace, which he does in most of his letters. But I'm saying if you're gonna have a hard conversation with somebody, whether it's through a letter or in person, it's always better to start and end with grace, meaning that we're still okay here, we're working through something, but we're brothers, which he does that, which is fantastic. Then in verses 4 through 7, compliment your asky and acknowledge their accomplishments. He starts the 4, 5, 6, and 7 by saying, here's how good of a brother you are. And he's not just, we say, oh, he's just flattering him or buttering up. No, if you'll start with people in the positive, it's a lot easier when you get to a negative that you got to deal with. In other words, don't bury the lead. The lead is, look, you're a good brother. Because he spends that four through seven describing exactly why partnerships are important, because he's fixing to make a point. Hey, we got a new partner here. So I love that he does that in 8 through 9. I phrased it this way, soften the ask. Because that's what he does when he says, I want to appeal to you out of love. Hey, I'm just an old man and a prisoner. And what he's doing is he's softening the ask. And then he uses humor in verse 10, 11, which I believe was this useless, you know, I know he's useless to you, but his name really means useful. And then in verses 12 through 16, he gets down to the lick line, as we would say. He sets the circumstances clearly and confidently. He lays out exactly why he's making his case. And then the 17 through 21, always do the right thing and offer the right thing and expect the right result. And that's what he does. And he says, look, if that means I need to pay something, because there is a financial. So I was right in the 70th point, Jason. That closing argument for our Philemon study, which then is also wrapped on our Colossians study. And wouldn't you know it, we're out here in the middle of nowhere and the power goes out. So we're literally finished in the podcast outside. This is what it looks like, by the way, you've always wondered. This is it. This is the lair. This is what people see when they drive by. So we're closing the podcast here. You got anything?

[A]

And the moral of the story is, when that run is over, it's literally over. Get out of the building, shut the cameras off, get out your phone and say, that's a wrap.

[B]

So we figure the Almighty is saying, it's a good way to finish this book, Philemon, in with what we're talking about in Colossians. To me, I think the reason it resonated so much to me, Jace, is that all the conflict resolution I've done as a pastor, because you do a lot. Between two brothers, two sisters, a parent and a child, a husband and a wife. That idea of that we're ultimately partners with the gospel, which is the point you were making. We're fellow workers. There's synergy when we're together, and ultimately we have grace for each other is a way to be able to wrap that up.

[A]

Because literally, as we stand here in life, things happen, and sometimes that leads to difficult conversations, and only in Jesus can they truly be resolved. So.

[B]

So next time on Unashamed. Whenever next time is, that's what we'll see. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on itunes, and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes.