Ep 1022 | The Hardest Phil Has Ever Laughed & a Renowned Psychiatrist Analyzes the Robertson Brain

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Episode 1022 Summary

Title: The Hardest Phil Has Ever Laughed & a Renowned Psychiatrist Analyzes the Robertson Brain
Release Date: January 13, 2025
Host: Tread Lively
Special Guest: Dr. Daniel Amen, Founder of Amen Clinics

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**1. A Light-Hearted Start: Bill Phillips and Hunting Anecdotes

The episode opens with the Robertson brothers sharing humorous stories from their hunting experiences. Jase, Phil, and Zach reminisce about their interactions with Bill Phillips, a family friend known for his distinctive hunting style and heavy breathing.

• Phil Robertson (00:14): "Zach just sneezed. And my daughter Alex has to listen to the podcast so she can write up copy and ad copy and stuff for the podcast."

• Jase Robertson (00:47): "Red Dog. That was his stage name when he...he infamously missed Phil says it's a thousand, but I was there. It was more like 300, and we were hunting hot."

• Phil Robertson (02:06): "So many ducks. And they need one. And everybody just, like, laughing. Like, can you believe they just keep piling and piling."

The brothers recount a memorable hunting trip where Bill's misfires led to an unexpected and comedic overabundance of decoys, showcasing the family's camaraderie and the light-hearted nature of their gatherings.

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**2. Family Dynamics and Discipline

The conversation shifts to the Robertson family's disciplinary practices during their youth. Phil shares a poignant story about his father's methods in correcting misbehaviors, emphasizing the blend of love and firmness that shaped their upbringing.

• Jase Robertson (09:14): "He said, now, you boys are grown men. And so I tell you this, if y'all want to just go ahead and go hand to hand...you'll never forget it the rest of your life."

• Phil Robertson (10:07): "I've told the story before. Everybody gets to a point where you have to make a hard decision to do the right things."

The brothers reflect on how their father's approach instilled discipline and accountability, highlighting its long-term impact on their personal and professional lives.

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**3. Introducing Dr. Daniel Amen: A Pioneer in Brain Health

Dr. Daniel Amen, a renowned psychiatrist and brain health expert, joins the Robertson family to discuss his groundbreaking work in brain imaging and mental health.

• Phil Robertson (14:25): "We have a very special guest Dr. Daniel Amen, who's one of the most influential experts on brain health and mental health."

• Dr. Daniel Amen (16:10): "With a better brain always comes a better life...keeping your brain healthy is actually not just about you. It's about generations of you."

Dr. Amen provides an overview of his career, detailing his transition from military service to pioneering brain imaging techniques that have revolutionized the understanding and treatment of mental health disorders.

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**4. Challenging Traditional Mental Health Diagnoses

A significant portion of the episode delves into the shortcomings of traditional psychiatric diagnoses, with Dr. Amen advocating for a more holistic and biology-focused approach.

• Zach Robertson (20:21): "Could you talk a little bit about how we currently treat...and the kind of how you've uncovered some of the real causes of mental illness, such as Lyme's disease?"

• Dr. Daniel Amen (20:21): "Psychiatric illnesses...are made based on symptom cluster diagnoses...psychiatrists are the only medical doctors that never look at the organ they treat."

Dr. Amen critiques the symptom-based diagnosis system, emphasizing the importance of brain imaging to identify underlying biological causes of conditions like depression, anxiety, and schizophrenia. He shares case studies demonstrating how brain scans have revealed previously unnoticed issues, leading to more effective treatments.

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**5. The Impact of Technology on Mental Health

The discussion transitions to the role of modern technology in exacerbating mental health issues, highlighting the physiological effects of excessive screen time and digital addiction.

• Dr. Daniel Amen (34:24): "It's wearing out our pleasure centers...the more you push on it, the more you begin to wear it out, just like cocaine."

• Phil Robertson (36:40): "What should parents do? What's a good preventative advice to parents out there?"

Dr. Amen explains how devices like smartphones and video games overstimulate the brain's dopamine pathways, leading to diminished pleasure responses and increased addiction potential. He advises parents to limit their children's screen time and promote activities that foster genuine human interaction and brain health.

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**6. Personal Stories: The Robertson Family and Brain Health

The Robertson family shares personal narratives that underscore the importance of brain health, including their grandmother's battle with bipolar disorder and their father's recent Alzheimer's diagnosis.

• Phil Robertson (43:48): "You get one of the speeches I saw you give...how you would treat your nephew, your son, your wife."

• Dr. Daniel Amen (45:52): "Brain health is so important. Your brain is involved in everything you do. How your brain works...how you get along with other people."

These heartfelt stories illustrate the profound impact of unresolved brain health issues on family dynamics and individual well-being. Dr. Amen discusses how timely interventions and brain imaging could have altered these outcomes, reinforcing his advocacy for proactive brain health management.

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**7. Practical Advice for Brain Health and Mental Well-being

In the episode's concluding segment, Dr. Amen offers actionable strategies for maintaining and improving brain health, accessible to listeners regardless of their access to specialized clinics.

• Dr. Daniel Amen (50:30): "Your brain controls everything. When it's healthy, your life is better. When it's not, your life and everyone you love, your lives are worse."

• Dr. Daniel Amen (52:00): "Ask yourself, is this good for my brain or bad for it?"

Dr. Amen introduces the concept of "Bright Minds" and emphasizes the importance of small, daily habits that contribute to overall brain health. He encourages listeners to make informed decisions that benefit their brains, such as choosing nutritious foods, avoiding toxins, and engaging in regular physical and mental exercise.

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**8. Closing Thoughts and Final Reflections

Phil and Jase reflect on the insights gained from their conversation with Dr. Amen, expressing a newfound commitment to prioritizing brain health within their family.

• Phil Robertson (53:52): "I just get one of the speeches I saw you give...you have elevated the discussion of the Unashamed podcast today."

The episode wraps up with a heartfelt acknowledgment of Dr. Amen's valuable contributions, inspiring listeners to take proactive steps toward enhancing their mental and neurological well-being.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Phil Robertson (16:10): "With a better brain always comes a better life."

• Dr. Daniel Amen (22:58): "Mild traumatic brain injury ruins people's lives. And nobody knows because nobody looks."

• Dr. Daniel Amen (34:24): "If I was an evil ruler and I wanted to create mental illness in America, I'd give children iPhones."

• Dr. Daniel Amen (45:52): "Brain health is so important. Your brain is involved in everything you do."

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Key Takeaways

• Holistic Mental Health: Dr. Amen advocates for a comprehensive approach to mental health that includes biological, psychological, social, and spiritual factors.

• Importance of Brain Imaging: Utilizing brain scans can uncover hidden issues that traditional diagnoses may miss, leading to more effective treatments.

• Impact of Technology: Excessive use of technology can wear out the brain's pleasure centers, contributing to addiction and mental health issues.

• Proactive Brain Care: Implementing small, daily habits focused on brain health can significantly improve overall well-being and quality of life.

• Family and Brain Health: Personal stories from the Robertson family highlight the critical role of brain health in maintaining family harmony and individual happiness.

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Conclusion

Episode 1022 of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family" offers an engaging and insightful discussion on the intersection of faith, family, and brain health. Featuring Dr. Daniel Amen, the episode underscores the necessity of looking beyond traditional mental health diagnoses to embrace a more nuanced understanding of the brain's role in our lives. Listeners are encouraged to adopt proactive measures to safeguard their neurological well-being, fostering healthier, happier lives for themselves and their loved ones.

Transcript

[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil Robertson]

Welcome back to Unashamed. There we go. Bless you.

[Zach Robertson]

Excuse me.

[Phil Robertson]

It's funny, because that'll probably get cut out, but Zach just sneezed. And my daughter Alex has to listen to the podcast so she can write up copy and ad copy and stuff for the podcast. And she was like, dad, I mean, you sounded like Bill Phillips on the podcast Friday. And I was like, hey, you ain't there yet. I was like, but it's because I had this terrible cold. I mean, she said, well, may, when you lose your way, you won't sound so bad.

[Zach Robertson]

For those who don't know, Bill Phillips breathes very heavily.

[Phil Robertson]

He's got tiny nostrils.

[Jase Robertson]

He changed his name to W E. W. Why you keep calling him that? He's.

[Phil Robertson]

Because he's not. I don't. He's. He's Billy Red Shoes to me. I grew up with the man. He's not.

[Jase Robertson]

He'll never be W. Bill changed my name. Phil used to call him Red Shoes.

[Phil Robertson]

Billy Red Shoes. He wore some red Converse.

[Jase Robertson]

Red Converse back in the day.

[Phil Robertson]

And then he was Bill, you know, then he was we. So he's just Red Dog.

[Zach Robertson]

Was there Red Dog in there?

[Jase Robertson]

Red Dog. That was his stage name when he. He. He infamously missed. Phil says it's a thousand, but I was there. It was more like 300, and we were hunting hot.

[Phil Robertson]

They run it on a loop at the tour. So every time I go through there, sometimes I take people through there. There's a. It's several videos, but I've seen that about four times, and I had to stop. And I laugh every time I see it.

[Jase Robertson]

It's a famous story. We needed one duck for the limit, and here comes several hundred. We'll just leave it at that. And so they worked around and they just lit. Not just in the decoy. It was several hundred. You couldn't tell where the decoys started and began.

[Phil Robertson]

You know, I've watched the video all the time. So it's literally they were feet in front of y'all. I mean.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, yeah, they were. They were at our feet. And what's weird is there was really no plan. Everybody was kind of having a Selah moment to draw attention.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, you can hear when you listen to the video, you hear just this underlying chuckle because everybody's, like, laughing, but not loud.

[Jase Robertson]

So many ducks.

[Phil Robertson]

So many ducks. And they need one. And everybody just, like, laughing. Like, can you believe they just keep piling and piling.

[Jase Robertson]

No, we. We. You know, technically, by the law, I'm sure the statute of limitations going out. So how do you know who needs the one for their limit?

[Phil Robertson]

Well.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, Phil assume that. And so all of a sudden, without warning, Bill said, all right, Red Dog, shoot you one. One for the land. He's like. And as when he said it loud. So all these ducks, they got up in like three.

[Phil Robertson]

It was a wave of getting up, three waves.

[Jase Robertson]

And we, AKA Red Dog, went boom. Boom. I don't think he shot.

[Phil Robertson]

No, he shot three times.

[Jase Robertson]

Did shoot three times.

[Phil Robertson]

Three times, Boom.

[Jase Robertson]

And does not cut a feather. Which at the moment seemed virtually impossible when you got a hundred pellets, give or take.

[Phil Robertson]

You and dad and I guess Benny Prince was there, and y'all are rolling around.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, no, not me. I didn't laugh because.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, somebody laughed, Phil, and long and hard.

[Jase Robertson]

There was a pause, and then they started laughing so hard. It's as hard as I've ever seen my dad laugh.

[Phil Robertson]

He literally was rolling around in the grass.

[Jase Robertson]

So we. Which is what's. Here's. There's the fun. And here's what made it more funny, because the film, you know, we had one cameraman, so it wasn't like you're.

[Phil Robertson]

You're filming like one wide shot of the whole.

[Jase Robertson]

What's happening. But W. Starts walking aimlessly to nowhere. We're out in the middle.

[Zach Robertson]

Nowhere.

[Phil Robertson]

He was just getting away.

[Jase Robertson]

He throws his gun down.

[Phil Robertson]

He did.

[Jase Robertson]

You never should throw your. It was unloaded, but still, it was the most embarrassing thing.

[Phil Robertson]

It was.

[Jase Robertson]

And so he became a Red Dog because of that. Because Phil was referring him to that. And so what's funny is on the way home from that, you know, because I was sitting there thinking, well, he just ruined one of the greatest scenes I've ever. I mean, all these.

[Phil Robertson]

Just the opposite. He made it. Oh, he made it so much better.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, we can't even run that. My desert. Oh, we're running that. That was amazing.

[Zach Robertson]

He's like, all those producer days.

[Phil Robertson]

That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

He said all those years he's been thinking, yeah, get me on the end of the blind, I'll show you what you'll do. He said he needed a good dose of humility. So the rule on that is it doesn't matter how many ducks are there. If you do not bear down and pick out one, it is possible to miss hundreds of ducks because he was trying to shoot one. He just missed him three times. But it made it look terrible because you would have think just in the backdrop, he would have hit something.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, the fear would be In a moment like that is, you would hit more than one because there was so many.

[Jase Robertson]

That's what he said. He's like, I took one off to the side so I wouldn't kill over my limit. I was thinking you were sitting there about to tinkle on yourself and were. You were nervous. But look, I would have been, too. I mean, you gotta remember when we. Back when we used to do those duck videos, Every once in a while, a duck would come in, perfect. And they would say, shoot him, Jase. And I have to admit, there was a gulp, because if you miss, there's.

[Phil Robertson]

A lot of pressure.

[Jase Robertson]

You're gonna watch it. And my dad and everyone else around are fixed to say, what are you doing? I mean, how could you miss that duck?

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I hear from you, and you'll.

[Zach Robertson]

Get a nickname that sticks with you the rest of your life.

[Phil Robertson]

So I hear from Bill every song. We probably call each other, you know, every other year. And so he called me, like, two weeks ago. He says, hey, you know, he just starts, right? I hadn't talked to him in a year. Hey. So I'm sitting here in the. I'm down in my man cave, you know, which is downstairs, and somebody's knocking on my door. He said, you know, they're knocking and knocking. I go up there and open the door, and it's the pest man. Is Bonnie had ordered the pest man. He said. So he comes in, he looks at me and he says. He asked me, said, did you go to Boley Junior High, which is a junior high here in West Monroe? He says, yeah. And he was like, do you know who I am? And Bill said, no. And he said, I'm Terry Elkins. And so he's calling me, because Terry Elkins is the infamous fourth guy that got the whipping with me. Greg Bill. Yeah, the guy never.

[Jase Robertson]

Y'all had pulled.

[Phil Robertson]

I told him before on the podcast.

[Jase Robertson]

Before Jesus. Wow.

[Phil Robertson]

That.

[Jase Robertson]

Which podcast?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, you're right. It's been a while.

[Jase Robertson]

It's only a thousand assistants.

[Phil Robertson]

We pulled a big drunk. It was during my prodigal years, but I was still here. I was a double secret agent. And so we pulled a big drunk right just down the road from where we're sitting right now, because Bill and them had a camp down here. His parents did. And so the neighbors called his parents because we tore stuff up and just act like a bunch of idiot teenagers. And so dad hears about it. Well, this is kind of when I'm starting now. My lifestyle is catching up with me. And so dad finds out about it. He comes over, gets me, tells them, if you ever want to come back down here to hunt or anything else, you'll come. Whatever he gets right now, you get or leave. Of course, we're telling Terry, who's the pest man now, where Bill was in Arkansas to leave. Because we're like, dude, this first time you've ever been here, you don't have to come back. But you know what? Leave it. Elkins did a good job because he was like, nope, I'm getting whatever y'all get. And so dad had no idea.

[Jase Robertson]

And I.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, we're like 15, 16, 17 year old boys, so it's not like we're kid.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I remember he actually gave you an option because. Yeah, you know, he. After he whipped y'all with a belt.

[Phil Robertson]

Lined up against the back of my grandpa's huge white Chrysler.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And you were there, weren't you?

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, was I there? Because he. After he did that, he waved the belt in my face and he said, were you taking notes? And I said, whoa.

[Phil Robertson]

But. But he.

[Jase Robertson]

What? My favorite thing he did was, is because he gave a long speech, and I'm sure you've probably forgotten it, but what he said in there is, he said, now, you boys are grown men. And so I tell you this, if y'all want to just go ahead and go hand to hand, we can do that. There's four of you, and y'all may take me, but you'll never forget it the rest of your life. He said, or you can bend over that big car right there and take some discipline for all the mischief y'all been doing.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, nobody wanted a part of Dad, I can tell you that, right? Dad's 78 right now, dealing with a lot of illnesses, and I still don't want to mess with it now, but.

[Jase Robertson]

I did think that was crazy. I was like, whoa, what a lead up that was.

[Zach Robertson]

Did you cry when you got the whooping? Did any of the girl.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, no, they didn't. They were grown man.

[Phil Robertson]

It didn't even. I mean, like, it's a story now, but it didn't even affect us at the moment to do better. That's what's so sad. Yeah, I've told the story before. Everybody gets to a point where you have to make a hard decision to do the right things. You can't. And this goes into legalism stuff. We talk about the podcast. You can't force other people ultimately, once they're old enough to do the right thing. I mean, you can try to shape and do the Best you can. And I've always told dad about that moment. He loves it when I tell that story. I said he was trying to do. He was just trying to get us to listen. He was doing whatever he could.

[Jase Robertson]

It actually was a pivotal moment in your lives.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

That it started going upward, you know.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. Not so. Bill tells Terry, just two weeks ago, when he came to his house, he said, hey, Alan Robertson has made you famous. He's talked about you all across the U.S. which I have, because dad, when he was whipping us, you know, he had commentary for everybody. And Terry's commentary looked at him. He said, son, I don't know who you are. Would you go home and tell your parents you got a whipping from Phil Robertson?

[Jase Robertson]

But he was actually timing the lick.

[Phil Robertson]

It's the syllable you got. So, Zach, you got to get the. The syllable, the syllabic.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, I know that everybody was thinking, boy, will he ever shut up. Because it was like, I don't know who you are. But then he actually realized, this has probably been quite the last.

[Phil Robertson]

We were supposed to get three legs.

[Jase Robertson]

He said, but you tell your daddy why you got this. That's why he did. And it was like three or four rapid.

[Phil Robertson]

And Bill to Bill. Bill's parents are standing there, his mom and his stepdad. And he looks up at them, he says, what. What do y'all think this is your son? They were like, get him, Phil.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So it was sanctioned by the parents. So it was like, son, this is embarrassing, but you're right here in front of your parents.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, let's face it, it was a.

[Zach Robertson]

That must be a family thing, because my mom used to whip like that.

[Jase Robertson]

It was a public meeting before that was.

[Zach Robertson]

But, I mean, the. The syllabic whooping, the way every syllable was a leg.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, yeah. It was one of the top 10 moments of my childhood.

[Phil Robertson]

You've. You've never forgotten it, right?

[Jase Robertson]

No.

[Phil Robertson]

All right, well, we'll have to ask our next guest about this. If this is. If that's one of the reasons why we turned out the way I recruited.

[Zach Robertson]

I've recruited help for you guys.

[Phil Robertson]

Good. Well, we got. We've got a very special guest. We're super excited. We feel like he's way out of our range, but we're going to try to do what we can to bring him into our redneck lamb and explain to us the thing. So Zach's going to tell us after the break who our guest is.

[Zach Robertson]

Jason got a big, unexpected tax bill recently, Right?

[Jase Robertson]

I did. I worked too hard And I got to pay the piper.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, some of us have had issues in the past with back taxes and tax debt that we don't know how to get rid of. Not everybody has contact in the irs. And so if you've ever tried to call the IRS on your own, you know what I'm talking about. It's very difficult to get through to an agent if you do. It's hard to, you know, hard to make anything happen. That's where our friends at Tax Network USA come in. These guys can really help. I met with them. Al and I met with this company. Love these guys. They have proven tactics that you're not going to find anywhere else. So first thing they do is they have a strong relationship with the IRS already. Secondly, they have a direct line to call the agents, and they know which agents play ball and which ones don't. Which. That's. Trust me, you want to be in with the right agent. They know these guys. They have relationships there. They have a truly genius design strategy to help solve your tax problems. Whether it's, you know, $10,000 you owe or $10 million that you owe, their attorneys, their negotiators, they know how to resolve it. They've resolved over $1 billion in tax debt. So they have a proven track record of success. We all know how big the IRS is. We all know how bureaucratic it is. It's how difficult it is to actually get on the phone with the right agents.

[Phil Robertson]

Zach, you remember they showed us a picture of one of the field offices of the irs, and it was just this massive, massive room with nothing but files stacked up on table after table. And you thought, man, no wonder it's hard to get something.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah, they're not. Yeah, you're not getting through.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Zach Robertson]

So if you're in a position where you need tax help, call our friends. Call one of their strategists. It's free to you. You don't have to. You don't have to sweat this out. You can stop sweating and put the IRS troubles behind you. Here's what you do. Call 1-800-958-1000. That's 1-800-958- 1000. Or you can go to tn USA.com unashamed that's tnusa.com unashamed welcome back to Unashamed.

[Phil Robertson]

We have very special guest Dr. Daniel Amen, who's one of the most influential experts on brain health and mental health. And so I'm starting to wonder, you know, Zach got doctor. He knows Dr. Amos. So he's got him to come on here. But do you think this is an intervention?

[Jase Robertson]

I do think maybe, James. I will say that if you start looking at members of my family, you would think, okay, we need some kind of brain specialist.

[Phil Robertson]

He's the founder of Brain MD Scan My Brain. 17 national public television shows. 12 time best selling author. So obviously he knows a lot. I've watched some of your videos, Dr. Amen. I wasn't familiar with the work. Super intrigued and super excited to have you on the Unashamed podcast. Welcome.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm dying to see both of your brains.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, boy. I don't know. We may. It may be a disappointment. Now, you told us before we came on that you had scanned some of our family already. Would one of those maybe was Willie. I'm just throwing that out there. I don't. And if you can't tell, you can just say it was. It was the ugly brother.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah, no, I'd rather not say.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I have a lot of Robertson brains and they're all fascinating.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, and we're dealing with, you know, dad has recently been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, which we've talked about publicly, so we're dealing with it in real time. And I couldn't help but think when I was watching your videos, you know, how helpful the information is, just what you've done so far. So just maybe a starting place. And I know Zach's got questions. Just tell us kind of what, what you do and kind of what got you into this to begin with.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So when I was 18, Vietnam was still going on and I was in the army and became an infantry medic. And that's where my love of medicine was born. But about a year into it, I realized I didn't like being shot at. So I got retrained as an X ray technician and developed a passion for medical imaging. As our professors used to say, how do you know unless you look? And then in 1975, I got out of the army, finished college, went to medical school. And when I was a second year medical student, my wife tried to kill herself. And I took her to see a wonderful psychiatrist. And I came to realize if he helped her, it wouldn't just help her, it would help me. It would help our kids, it would ultimately help our grandkids because they would be shaped by someone who was happier and more stable. But I fell in love with the only medical specialty that never looks at the organization it treats. And I knew it was wrong and I knew it had to Change. And so for the last 35 years, at Amen Clinics, I have 11 clinics around the United States, we've been looking at the brain with a study called Brain SPECT imaging. And it looks at blood flow and activity. It looks at how your brain works. And we have the world's largest database of brain scans related to behavior. Quarter of a million scans on people from 155 countries. We did the big NFL study when the NFL was sort of lying. They had a problem with traumatic brain injury in football. We've scanned, you know, amazing athletes like Muhammad Ali, recording artists like Miley Cyrus, and all that's public. But the big thing, when I started looking at the brain, it literally changed everything in my life, from how much sleep I get to what I eat to the sports I play. And what I learned is with a better brain always comes a better life. And when you talk about your dad with Alzheimer's, well, we can actually see that on scans decades before people have any symptoms. And just knowing your father has it means you should be on an Alzheimer's prevention program every day of your life, because you see how hard it is not just on the person, but on everyone who loves that person. So keeping your brain healthy is actually not just about you. It's about generations of you. And so I think everybody, by the time they're 50, should get a scan. You know, when I turned 50, my doctor wanted me to have a colonoscopy. I asked him why he didn't want to look at my brain. Wasn't the other end just as important? And so we'll have a fun discussion.

[Zach Robertson]

You've talked a lot about the misdiagnoses of certain mental illnesses. One of the things that you said that resonated with me was that a lot of mental illness is brain injury. And you showed a graph one time when we were on a conference call together that was fascinating for me, too, of the prevalence of schizophrenia. I was like a heat map. And then you showed another one of the prevalence of Lyme's disease, and then that you overlay those, and it was almost identical. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, how we currently treat, you know, mental illness, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety, and the kind of how you've uncovered some of the. The real causes of that, such as Lyme's disease. Could you talk a little bit about that for our audience? I found that to be extremely fascinating.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So in the United States, really, all around the world, most, almost all, psychiatric illnesses, anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, they're made Based on symptom cluster diagnoses. So, for example, Abraham Lincoln in 1840 was suicidal and he went to his doctor. And how did Dr. Anson Henry diagnose Lincoln with depression? He talked to him, he looked at him, looked for symptom clusters, and then diagnosed and treated him. That's still happening in 2025. You go to your family practice doctor, you go to your psychiatrist or psychiatric nurse practitioner, you tell them what you're experiencing or your family does, and they go, oh, you have this or you have that with no biological data. So it's insane. Right? The people that are guarding our sanity are insane because depression can come from low thyroid. Depression can come from having post Covid. Covid is like this inflammatory bomb that goes off in your emotional brain. It can happen. Yes, because you failed and had a loss. Or it can happen because you live in a mold filled environment in a place like Louisiana that rains a lot and floods a lot, that gives you mold, which then can attack your brain and so making. You know, I just always say the one thing people remember me for is when I say psychiatrists are the only medical doctors that never look at the organ they treat. And because of that, they miss huge things like traumatic brain injury. If you go, hey, Daniel, what's the single most important thing you learn from a quarter of a million scans? Mild traumatic brain injury ruins people's lives. And nobody knows because nobody looks. And the exciting thing that I learned is you can make your brain better, even if you've been bad to it. And so I watched the movie about your dad and he was bad to his brain.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And there was trauma. So if you take trauma and alcohol, well, those are two things that significantly increases your risk for Alzheimer's disease. But if I had him, well, even now I would want to look because I have cases where it's not Alzheimer's disease. There's too much pressure in the brain, and putting a shunt in helps. Or it's not Alzheimer's disease. They're living with an infection and treating the infection. That helps. One of the reasons I fell in love with imaging. One of my first patients, Matilda, 69, diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, Almost burned her house down because she forgot something on the stove. And when I scanned her, she didn't have Alzheimer's disease. Her emotional brain was too busy. And on an antidepressant, she got her memory back. And how do I know what's going on with you if I don't look? So just think of the chutzpah of all These doctors just passing out medication like candy. Last year there were 340 million prescriptions in the United States for antidepressants with no biological data. It's just nuts.

[Zach Robertson]

Do you prescribe them? Do you use the antidepressants?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

When I think they're part of the solution, I do. But it's never the first and only thing I think about. If I really think you have bipolar disorder, well, then I'm going to give you lithium or lamictal. But I'm also going to work hard to get your brain healthy. And I have a mnemonic I like called Bright Minds. Want to keep your brain healthy or rescue it? You have to prevent or treat the 11 major risk factors that steal your mind. And the H in Bright Minds is head trauma and the T is toxin and the second I is infection. And so just having a rational plan to keep your brain healthy is what I think all of us should want.

[Phil Robertson]

We talk a lot about cell phones. Jason on this podcast. Dad of course has notoriously been anti cell phone, although he, he does depend on us to look up on our phones, the weather and, you know, a lot of the important things to hunting.

[Jase Robertson]

But he's actually taken away cell phones and thrown them, never to be found again.

[Phil Robertson]

But we have Patriot Mobile, who's a great spokesman for cell phones. They're America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. So they provide an opportunity for us to be able to have a cell phone and have cell phone coverage, but also to support a company that loves America and loves a lot of the same things that we do. With Patriot Mobile, you get outstanding nationwide coverage because they operate on all three major networks. So if you have cell phone service today, you can get cell phone service with Patriot Mobile with a coverage guarantee. The difference is every dollar you spend supports the first and second amendments, sanctity of life, our veterans, our first responders. They also support great causes like Alliance Defending Freedom. One of my favorites, folds of honor, Mercury one and Susan B. Anthony Pro Life America, which Lisa and I have done a lot of work for ourselves. Switching is easy. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade. Their 100% US based customer service team will help you find the perfect plan. Right now go to patriotmobile.com Phil or you can call 972 Patriot and get a free month of service with the promo code. Phil, switch to Patriot Mobile today. Defend freedom with every call and text you make by visiting patriotmobile.com phil or you can call them at 972patriot. One of the things I thought you Said was so true in the video I watched. And you just said it again, was every other doctor looks. I mean, you know, you think about orthopedic, you think about the colon like you mentioned, you think about, you know, internal medicine, me, everybody looks to diagnose. And you're right, it seems weird to me that people wouldn't look. And it was interesting because when I was reading about you on the Internet, you, there are people that say, oh, he doesn't, you know, that you don't need that and he's a quack and blah, blah, blah. It seemed like it was people from your field. And I just thought, well, what would be wrong with looking? I mean, in other words, to me.

[Jase Robertson]

It reminded me of when he was talking because I'm kind of a simple minded fella. It would be like, you know, everybody trying to figure out what's wrong with your vehicle and no one, we're just.

[Phil Robertson]

Standing around listening to it.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, no one would think, well, how about we pop the hood? Or the infamous line. I know it doesn't have any gas in it, you know, but it's not a crazy thought.

[Phil Robertson]

That's what I was thinking.

[Jase Robertson]

I was just wondering though, for the listener. So do you use your database, because you mentioned that of all these brain scans to kind of coordinate and then make a decision or, you know, I was wondering how the imaging actually translates to treatment. Yeah, to treatment. Or, you know, a rough idea of that process because I'm curious about that.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So if you came to see us, we would get to know you and take a very detailed history of your life. And then we would test your brain and then we would scan it. We generally do two. One at rest, one when you concentrate. And we would take all of that information. So you came and said, I'm depressed or I'm angry or I keep getting fired from my job. Well, that's really important information. And then we would test your brain, how positive or negative you are, how's your memory, how's your focus? And then we would use the images to guide what we do for you. But we don't make diagnoses from images. We make diagnoses from all the information. And so, for example, we saw a woman recently and she thought she had ADD and her brain looked like she had a traumatic brain injury. You could just see part of her left temporal lobe had been bashed in, had been hurt. And it's hard to concentrate if part of your brain has been damaged.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And so most psychiatrists or family practice doctors would give her Adderall or Ritalin. And I'm like, no, we have to repair your brain first. And we use things like hyperbaric oxygen and certain supplements to help repair the brain. And then she can focus. And it's just, you want to go not, oh, you have add. It's like, why do you have problems concentrating and problems with organization? And why do you lose words as opposed to label equals drugs?

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah, it's interesting. My previous career is I worked with, I worked in the pharmaceutical industry on the sales side of it, and I sold a lot of the psychotrophic medications. And until I ran across your work, which I found to be very compelling, I had similar thoughts just based on my interactions in the marketplace, because most of what I was seeing was that most of the, and you said this in one of your talks, that most of the psychotropic medications are prescribed by non psychiatric physicians and in a very short office visit of a primary care specialist or primary care physician. And, and it just seemed to be, I'm doing this every day and I'm, and I'm seeing how this has played out. And it, yeah, the data, the science, it's not, it wasn't, it seemed very subjective to me at least, you know, the way that they would talk about psychiatric medicine. It was very subjective. I'd never heard anybody scanning the brain or looking at other. More, more treating it holistically. You also mentioned the role that the spiritual plays in this as well. I thought maybe you could talk a little bit about how the spiritual life plays into some of our illnesses.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So I always think of my patients in four big circles. The first one is what's the biology? How healthy is your brain and body? And that's why we have to scan you. The second circle is your psychology. It's how do you think? What did you grow up in, your development, the traumas you experience in successes too. And then there's the social circle. How's your relationships? How's your money? You know, we're just coming out of this crazy political season that was socially stressful for so many. And then the spiritual circle is ultimately, why do you care? What is your deepest sense of meaning and purpose? And I think of it as your relationship with God, with the planet, with your past and your future. And there's a term called moral injury. And when you're trying to do the right thing, like I'm trying to move my field forward and yet I've been shamed and called a quack for 30 years, well, that's a moral injury. Now I figured out how to deal with these crazy people. Right. And I believe for me, God has been there every step, because someone will write a hate piece on me. And then in the next hour, we've dramatically changed someone's life. And so I tend to ignore the haters and focus on what I can control. But there, especially in this new Internet world, there's a lot of moral injury because of the bullying, the shaming, and the lack, the loneliness and lack of purpose that our younger generation is living with.

[Zach Robertson]

Are you familiar with Jonathan Haidt's work? I know he wrote a book called. He's going to come on our podcast soon, the the Anxious Generation.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yes. I love that book.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah. Which I found to be very compelling about mental illness and particularly anxiety levels, depression, in correlation to the adoption of the iPhone, social media. I mean, what are you seeing in terms of the effects that technology is having on our mental health right now?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's wearing out our pleasure centers. So there's an area in the brain called the nucleus accumbens, and it responds to dopamine. So dopamine is the neurotransmitter that helps us feel good, that helps us focus, it gives us pleasure, that gives us motivation. If you think of the iPhone or video games, it's like a little lever that just pushes dopamine over and over and over in that area of the brain. But the more you push on it, the more you begin to wear it out, just like cocaine. And you need more and more to begin to feel anything at all. So these devices. And it started with video games in the late 1980s, it started with video games that all of a sudden technology is beginning to wear out the pleasure centers in the brain. And then if you add pornography to nine and ten year old boys, it really becomes quite a disaster.

[Phil Robertson]

Would you say Dr. Amen, too? Because we got a lot of young parents out there listening, a lot of young people that, that when it comes to the sort of things you mentioned, especially like video games and things like that, or just, you know, being on the devices, what is. Should people just limit that? I mean, what. What do parents need to do? Because I know they're concerned about their kids doing just what you described. So, so what's, what's a good preventative advice to parents out there and to people trying to, you know, make sure their kids are healthy and that they're not destroying their brains while they're young?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah, Just say no.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

To devices and spend time, rather than, you know, parents use smartphones as babysitters. For kids and they're addictive. My. When I have my first grandchildren. And at the time, his parents weren't listening to me. And I could see when he was nine months old that he was addicted to the phone. I mean, he knew how to use an iPhone. And I looked at them like, y'all are crazy. This is a bad thing. And whenever I be with them, it's like, phone pop up, phone pop up. And I'm like, no. And ultimately, they got on board with it and they just see how addictive. And a lot of people who develop ticks from technology use. You really need to do detox and, you know, the longer you can delay. And I think Jonathan haid recommended like, 16 would be good. And. And I agree with that.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

If I was an evil ruler. So I wrote about this in my book the end of mental Illness. I just imagined, if I was an evil ruler and I wanted to create mental illness in America, what would I do? I'd give children iPhones. Now I have 62 evil ruler strategies. Right. Getting girl scouts to sell drugs to the American population. Girl Scout cookies. Right. It's not good for you. That's another evil ruler strategy. Or just make everybody think alcohol is a health food and marijuana is innocuous. If I was an evil ruler, I would do that.

[Jase Robertson]

I guess those things damage the brain. Well, while y'all were sleeping this morning, o Jace was living in the real world, going duck hunting at 4:30 this morning. And I pull behind a car and the light is. It's two green lights to the right, and there's a flashing yellow arrow. And this person is stopped at like.

[Phil Robertson]

4:30 in the morning.

[Jase Robertson]

4:30 in the morning. And there's no one else in sight on the road. There's no one coming in any direction. It's dark. And so I waited about 10 seconds. And so I figured they made this car and my truck specifically with a horn for moments like this because there's no one here except me and you. And you are in my way.

[Phil Robertson]

You're trying to get to the duck blind.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. It's yellow and ducks are waiting. So I. I didn't just tap it. I laid on it. So they just took off in a hurry. You know, it's kind of like, oh, that was embarrassing. I mean, just roared out way too fast. It is 4:30 in the morning. And from my observation, kind of like what you do, there's a lot of mischief going on at 4:30 in the morning. Or you're hunting. So they went out of sight. I take a lift, and wouldn't you know that it wasn't 60 seconds? And now I'm driving the speed limit, and this person is in the right lane going way below the speed limit. And I thought, okay, this person is either on drugs. I mean, Doc, you'll appreciate this. I was making a brain scan just based on behavior. I said, we have a problem here, and it's probably drugs. So when I got beside this person, I looked over because I couldn't help it. And they had a phone with a light. And for those of you listening, you want to appreciate this, it was one inch from her nose. She's looking ahead and had her hand up here typing. And so what did I do? I got on that horn again, and all I did was just. I just pointed out, like, go. It was a young girl. And I just thought. I mean, then you're telling this story right now, and I'm like, these are people. This is what they're doing. You cannot be any more dangerous than that.

[Phil Robertson]

Dr. Ava, we call that redneck psychiatry, is what we call that here in Louisiana. What would you call that?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Love it. I think redneck psychiatry is.

[Jase Robertson]

I told my wife about it, and I said, look, everybody's up in arms. What's interesting is, before you came on, we were talking about my dad issuing, what would we call that, corporal punishment for grown men after my brother and his friends pulled a big drunk down here, and it turned into a neighborhood spanking of grown men with parents saying, get them. And. And it wasn't just like, y'all had messed up. Y'all had damaged property, people threatening lawsuits.

[Phil Robertson]

It was a happening.

[Jase Robertson]

And my dad just said, hey, I know you're grown men, but if you want to stay around here, I'm giving you three licks on the behind. And that might, you know, have been a moral injury, but it got your attention. So I told my wife today. I was like, you know, I would be for that, you know, some kind of spanking if somebody's driving a car and they have the phone in between. She's like, jase, you're being ridiculous. But I was like, I just. What are you going to do about this problem? I mean, they are so addicted to the cell phone, they are oblivious.

[Phil Robertson]

So you assumed that she was on drugs. It turns out she was just.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, she was just on her cell phone.

[Phil Robertson]

But it's just as a matter of addiction to Dr. Ava's point, too. So I wanted to talk about a little bit about that, about family, because obviously we started out saying, you've seen some brain scans. I really, after just talking to you and after now researching, I definitely think I need to get the brain scan. I just turned 60 this week. Obviously, in our family, all my cousins, doc, are looking at me because Zach's one of my cousins, because I'm, you know, the second one in our family to reach 60 and we've had mental illness. My grandmother was bipolar. Back in the day, they called it manic depressive, but it was actually lithium. And she went through this for 30 plus years of all these terrible episodes and terrible, you know, you talking about trauma to family, awful stuff. Until finally, when she was in her 70s, a local psychiatrist gave her some lithium and she lived normal the rest of her life until she was 90 something years old. And it really made me sad because I thought, man, for 30 or plus years, you know, they were doing all these crazy, you know, things to her and taking her to the, to the, you know, the psych wards. And for days she wouldn't sleep and.

[Jase Robertson]

Just awful doing shock treatments and all these different things.

[Phil Robertson]

So it was really bad on our family. Of course, that was in the movie. You said you saw the movie and we dealt with that. But now five out of the seven siblings and dad's out of the seven that his brothers and sisters have all either had dementia, including Zach's mom or, or Alzheimer's.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And the other member, one of those seven is, I mean, I would literally pay the whatever it costs to be.

[Phil Robertson]

Treated for his brand to be scanned his brain.

[Jase Robertson]

There's an uncle that we have, and I'm not going to say his name, but he, I would just pay money to have that brain scan. And you would need a lot of people with notebooks, with pens ready to go, because I would love to see what's under the hood.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, my dad said he was born with dementia Dot. And we just got used to it. So that, that was his line about my uncle. That's. We're not naming, but I, I, in seriousness, you, you get one of the speeches I saw you give. You talked about a young boy that had these behavioral problems. And then you found out through what you do that he had a cyst on his brain that was affecting him. And then once that cyst was removed, it totally changed his life. And it turns out it was your nephew. And you showed that picture and it was very emotional. It was very touching to me because when I hear a doctor tell me something, I always ask, well, would you do this with your family? Like, if you're, if you're if you're telling me this is what you would do, would you do this with your nephew, with your son, with your wife? And my wife recently went through breast cancer and both of her doctors said what we're talking about doing for her, both of our wives, we did for them. And I was like, all right, then I'm in. Because I know then you're committed to what you're talking about. So just talk a little bit about that in terms of, I mean, from our perspective, we're thinking ahead. Like, how do we get our brains mapped? What do we need to do to look at to say we don't want to care? If we can do something different, we'll do something different.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, how exciting. Yeah. The story about Andrew, my nephew, helped with the moral injury. So I've just been brutalized by my colleagues for what I do. And this is what I do. I take really good histories, I test your brain and then I scan it and then I take all that information to come up with a treatment plan and help. You want to have a better brain because with a better brain has a better life. But the level of vitriol and criticism I got was terrible for me. And then I got this call late one night from my sister in law that said my 9 year old nephew Andrew attacked a little girl on the baseball field that day. And I'm like, what? Because he's also my godson and I'm very close to him. And she said, danny, he's different, he's mean, he doesn't smile anymore. I went to his room today and I found two pictures he had drawn. One of them, he was hanging from a tree in a suicide attempt. The other one, he's shooting other children. And I'm like, I need to scan this kid. And like 999 child psychiatrists out of a thousand would have drugged him and put him in therapy. And I'm like, now I need to look at his brain. And what we found is he had a cyst the size of a golf ball occupying the space of his left temporal lobe, which is an area we had already associated with violence. And when the neurosurgeon drained the cyst, his behavior immediately went back to normal, to the normal loving kid. And now he's, goodness, I don't know, almost 40, has two children, has a job, he's employed, he's married, he's normal. And then so that, that moment I lost my anxiety about whether or not you didn't like me or you criticized me. And I Went to war with my colleagues. When I met my second wife, the first naked part of her I wanted to see was her brain. And we scanned her. If you date any of my children, I'm looking at your brain. Brain health is so important. And if you love yourself and you're grateful for the life that you've been given, you want a better brain. Because your brain is involved in everything you do. How you think, how you feel, how you act, how you get along with other people. And when it works right, you tend to work right. Right. The girl in the car, her brain wasn't right. And when your brain is troubled, for whatever reason, you have trouble in your life. And it's easy to call people bad. It's way harder to go, why are you this way? And so I. I just live my life thinking, how can I make my brain and your brain better?

[Jase Robertson]

And you.

[Zach Robertson]

You've got, what, 11 clinics now across the country, is that correct?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yes.

[Zach Robertson]

With multiple psychiatrists other than yourself that are treating patients with kind of this method, which I. I mean, I know why you've probably ruffled feathers. I mean, if you look at. I mean, you got big ag, big con, big food, big pharma, There's a lot of money that's being made off a lot of the things that you would probably say, like sugar or, you know, get off the sugar, get off.

[Phil Robertson]

The alcohol, get off of the caffeine, nicotine.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a lot. There's a lot of money, but here. So I understand why you have probably been called the things you've been called, but what you're doing, I think is important. But not everybody has access to one of your clinics. A lot of people listening, they're not in an area where they could get access to what, the type of psychiatric treatment that you give. What. What do you. And one of the things I know you're working on, too, is, is how do we rethink mental illness as a whole. But until the industry, until medicine catches up, what. What's your advice for. For the guy that lives in middle America that doesn't have access to a brain scan?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That's why I write. You know, my book, change your Brain, Change youe Life, has been translated into 46 languages. And everywhere I go across North America, people recognize me and they go, your work changed my life. And simply from, you know, checking out a book at a library or watching the videos I have on Instagram, it's the person in middle America. The message I have is, your brain controls everything. You do. And when it's healthy, your life is better. And when it's not your life and everyone you love, your lives are worse. So I worked with BJ Fogg for six months. He's in charge of the persuasive tech lab at Stanford. And it's on how people change. And we developed dozens of what we call tiny habits. You know, what's the smallest thing I can do today that'll make the biggest difference? And ultimately there's a mother, tiny habit. And whenever you go to make a decision today, just ask yourself, is this good for my brain or bad for it? And if you can answer that with information and love, love of yourself, love of your family, love of the reason God put you on earth, you just start making better decisions. And so I play the game with my daughter Chloe. When she was little, we called it Chloe's game. But it's basically this question, Chloe's game, is this good for your brain or bad for it? So if I said avocados, she'd go, two thumbs up. God splutter. If I said, hitting a soccer ball with your head, she'd roll her eyes at me and go, are you stupid? The brain is soft and the skull is hard and the skull has sharp bony ridges. If I said blueberries, she would put her little hands on her hips and go, are they organic? Because non organic blueberries hold more pesticides than almost any other fruit. And I'm like, of course they're organic. She'd go, they're God's candy. And you just got to know. And when she was 7 and I went to her second grade class and I wrote 20 things on the board, I go, separate these for me. Good for your brain, bad for your brain. They got 19 out of 20, right? So most 7 year olds know the only thing they got wrong was orange juice, which they put in the good category when it belongs in the bad category. Because whenever you unwrap sugar from its fiber source, it turns toxic in your body. So I'm not a fan of juice. And this isn't hard. Now our society is against us, right? Watched a basketball game last night. There were 20 beer commercials. And if there's not a beer commercial, it's for Carl's or Jack in the Box. You know, it's just weapons of mass destruction. But ultimately it's simple. Is this good for my brain or is it bad for my brain?

[Phil Robertson]

I like it simple. We're out of time, Doc. It's been a very intriguing conversation. I was looking up while you were talking amenclinics.com if you want to check in to see if there's one near you. Also, danielaimanmd.com Tom tells a lot about your work as well as talks about your book. So thank you for coming on. You have elevated the discussion of the Unashamed podcast today. We appreciate you. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.