Ep 1025 | Phil's Most Off-the-Wall Advice & Jase Sparks a Gender Controversy No One Saw Coming

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Episode: Ep 1025 | Jase Preaches a Sermon So Radical It Nearly Got Him Stoned to Death
Release Date: January 17, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode 1025 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family, host Jase Robertson delves deep into profound theological discussions that bridge personal experiences with biblical teachings. The episode intertwines lighthearted family interactions with intense explorations of faith, the resurrection, and the essence of eternal life. As the Robertson family navigates through anecdotes and scriptural analysis, listeners are invited to contemplate the intricate relationship between humanity and divinity.

---

1. Personal Anecdotes and Lighthearted Moments

The episode opens with a humorous exchange about Jase's missing earphones, which were humorously found on his friend Zach Dasher's head ([00:00]-[03:09]). This lighthearted moment sets the tone for the family's dynamic interplay, showcasing their ability to blend everyday mishaps with deeper conversations.

Notable Quote:

Jase Robertson ([02:14]): "He said, 'arise, kill, and eat.' However, that was a quote from Acts, chapter 10."

---

2. Impact of Faith and the Importance of Resurrection

Transitioning from personal stories, Jase shares a transformative realization about the resurrection's role in Christian faith. He emphasizes that eternal life is not merely a theoretical concept but a tangible reality rooted in Jesus' resurrection.

Notable Quote:

Jase Robertson ([12:35]): "I'm going to shout because I really had an epiphany reading John last night, preparing for this. We're going to live."

---

3. Interpretation of Biblical Passages

The Robertson family engages in an in-depth analysis of several biblical passages, including John 20, 1 John 4:10, and Ephesians 4. They explore the nuances of Jesus' interactions post-resurrection and the concept of eternal life as portrayed in these scriptures.

Notable Quotes:

Jase Robertson ([11:25]): "He was like, my Lord and my God. And then Peter, who had denied him three times... We're going to go out despite your tears, your pain, your doubts, your failures."

Zach Dasher ([18:57]): "That was a catalyst in me taking Jesus seriously being the son of God, which is what the book of John is about."

---

4. The Physical Universe and Humanity in Christianity

Zach Dasher introduces the idea that the physical universe holds significant value in Christian doctrine. He argues against the notion of a disembodied eternity, asserting that the resurrection validates the importance of the physical realm and human experience.

Notable Quote:

Zach Dasher ([25:27]): "Life is something that's shared... it's going to be a place that's tangible, that you can put your fingers and you can touch it."

---

5. The Significance of "The Chosen" in Understanding Jesus' Humanity

The discussion shifts to the television series The Chosen, highlighting its portrayal of Jesus' humanity. Phil Robertson praises the show for humanizing Jesus, making His divine attributes relatable without diminishing His divinity.

Notable Quote:

Phil Robertson ([42:11]): "It's what you told the woman that time in the roundabout... never forget that story you told on the podcast."

---

6. Gender and God's Image

Jase addresses contemporary debates surrounding gender by referencing biblical teachings. He emphasizes that both male and female are created in God's image, countering modern misconceptions about gender neutrality in divinity.

Notable Quotes:

Jase Robertson ([49:25]): "He was gender neutral, which maybe I could have..."

Zach Dasher ([50:53]): "Rembrandt's prodigal son is... look at the hands as the prodigal son embraces the son."

---

7. Life with Christ and Eternal Life

Furthering the discussion on eternal life, Zach and Jase elucidate the difference between eternal life and a mere existence in the afterlife. They articulate that Jesus' resurrection signifies a new, eternal life in unity with Him, emphasizing active participation rather than passive existence.

Notable Quote:

Zach Dasher ([22:36]): "It's the term about payment for sin here, this big word called propitiation."

---

8. Conclusion: Reflections on Eternal Life and Resurrection

Wrapping up the episode, the Roberts reflect on the comprehensive nature of their faith—balancing the acknowledgment of sin with the promise of eternal life through resurrection. They advocate for a Christianity that honors both the divine and the human aspects of Jesus, encouraging listeners to embrace a holistic understanding of their faith.

Notable Quote:

Phil Robertson ([52:11]): "NT Wright does kind of like tweak his adversaries... but that's why we like, well, guess what?"

---

Key Takeaways

• Resurrection as Central to Faith: The resurrection is not just a historical event but the cornerstone of eternal life and the believer's relationship with Christ.

• Integration of Divinity and Humanity: Embracing both Jesus' divine nature and His human experiences enriches the understanding of Christian doctrine.

• Value of the Physical World: Contrary to views of a disembodied afterlife, the episode underscores the significance of the physical realm in God's plan.

• Importance of Community and Relationships: Eternal life is depicted not as isolated existence but as a shared experience with meaningful relationships.

---

Closing Thoughts

Episode 1025 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family offers listeners a rich, multifaceted exploration of Christian theology intertwined with personal narratives. By dissecting biblical texts and relating them to everyday life, the Robertson family provides an engaging discourse on faith, resurrection, and the essence of eternal life, encouraging believers to deepen their understanding and connection with Christ.

Transcript

[Jase Robertson]

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career.

[Zach Dasher]

Day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he.

[Jase Robertson]

Loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.

[Zach Dasher]

Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Twitter terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be. To be. All right, we ready? What are you looking for?

[Jase Robertson]

My earphones, maybe.

[Zach Dasher]

Hey.

[Jase Robertson]

Like, what? How did I lose my.

[Phil Robertson]

There's our lead.

[Jase Robertson]

He had them on his head. You're funny.

[Zach Dasher]

Funny guy right here.

[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil Robertson]

Welcome back. Unashamed. So there's quite a kerfuffle going on across my way over here. My 12ft Away podcast.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm gonna confess something before we tell this embarrassing moment. I have spent this this past year, because now we're in a new year, just looking for. I keep forgetting losing things. I mean, Missy had to call my phone this morning, like, 10 times, and I had just had it. Yeah. But for some reason, happens to me quite. I've never had this in six years of podcasts. I get a message that says, wear a solid shirt to the podcast, and I thought, oh, boy, have we gone down there? So I was trying to.

[Phil Robertson]

No, first. You left out the first part. The first part said my shirts didn't come in.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So wear a solid shirt. Zach was supposed to provide a shirt.

[Jase Robertson]

For some, but Zach. Willie tried to do the same thing in Duck Commander. He tried to get us all to wear uniforms.

[Zach Dasher]

That was not my intention.

[Jase Robertson]

I am not wearing bowling outfits with our name tags. Not going to do it. I'm just saying that right now.

[Phil Robertson]

Having said that, that says a nice polo. Just wear khakis.

[Jase Robertson]

He said many times that we'll do two podcasts at a time because that's all that my brain will allow. Y'all want to do more, but I have a smaller brain, even though it hasn't been scanned. But I could not find my earphones. But I didn't move during the transition. Y'all had to get up and do a potty break. Where's my earphones? I could not. I was looking, and I saw you. I didn't grab the cords, and I felt I've lost my earphones and I haven't moved. And Maddie, she was not giving any help. She was Just like. Well, that's you. You lost it. Yeah, they were on Zach's head.

[Zach Dasher]

I looked down to see my earphones right here. Oh, I got them on my head. That's like when you're at dinner and you take somebody's fork or, you know, you eat the nice dinner set or you drink out of their glass of water. That's what that deal was.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, everybody. Because I do a lot of banquet speeches, and so then you got to think, okay, which way were we going? Right or left?

[Zach Dasher]

I always forget.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I don't know. But if I gotta figure that out.

[Jase Robertson]

That makes me nauseated. I'm kind of a germ freak on that. I don't know why.

[Zach Dasher]

I did change my hat, too, by the way. Y'all didn't notice for the last podcast?

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, wardrobe changed.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I noticed that just shows you.

[Zach Dasher]

When I had this one on.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, that was on the last podcast.

[Zach Dasher]

So now I got this. This corduroy hat.

[Phil Robertson]

Does that make him look better or worse, Jay?

[Jase Robertson]

Well, it just shows you that deep down, we listen to what people think we do. Which I said it was a positive. I was bragging on you. The orange hat said, please don't shoot me. This hat makes you, like, look, I'm warm and fuzzy. I'm a nice guy.

[Zach Dasher]

But what does the hat say, though, Jase?

[Jase Robertson]

Well, my dad told me.

[Phil Robertson]

Too far away for me to read.

[Jase Robertson]

It says, arise, kill, and eat. However, that was a quote from Acts, chapter 10. When Peter saw the first. What would we call that motion picture from?

[Zach Dasher]

It says a sheet. Phil describes it as a movie screen.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, because it was let down out of heaven. So I think Phil's more right on that. It was the first look. The production was Heavenly Productions.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And it was.

[Phil Robertson]

And unlike all the eternal references on Earth, this really was from eternity. This is.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And y'all think this is planned, but there was no plan. I didn't know Zach was going to make a comment about his hat. But now that you've asked me, I'm going to tell you, because I know what you were trying to do there. You were changing your image by the hat. And so you have this famous quote from Peter, who. Phil basically made that the quote of Duck Commander.

[Zach Dasher]

That was the mission statement.

[Phil Robertson]

There were all of his early speeches. That was his open.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, well, here's the problem. So you wore that, and you're like, okay, because Phil, he really resonated with that.

[Phil Robertson]

That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

But you're missing one key rule that Phil had.

[Zach Dasher]

What's that?

[Jase Robertson]

He told me when I was a small boy and he reminded me many times. He said, and I'm not even sure I can pronounce it, but he said. Because I was not allowed to even mention it, he said, never, never wear. What is this called?

[Zach Dasher]

The hat?

[Phil Robertson]

Corduroy.

[Jase Robertson]

Corduroy.

[Zach Dasher]

A corduroy.

[Jase Robertson]

He said, never wear that. So see, when I saw the hat, I thought, oh, no. He has a quote that resonated with Phil. But he put it on something that feels.

[Zach Dasher]

I didn't. I didn't come up with this hat. But I will tell you what's interesting.

[Phil Robertson]

And I wonder why dad had a never wear.

[Jase Robertson]

He told me to never wear that.

[Phil Robertson]

Because he used to have some corduroy pants. Maybe that he maybe had a bad.

[Jase Robertson]

No, he burned them. He. He burned them.

[Zach Dasher]

He said, what's funny is I had. So the shirts I ordered. And I'm not kidding, I'm not kidding. The shirt I had ordered for you was a corduroy shirt.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm not gonna be able to wear that.

[Zach Dasher]

So I mean, thank the Lord. And it looked. It was this color and it was a corduroy short shirt. I thought that looks.

[Jase Robertson]

It's.

[Zach Dasher]

You know, it. That's out.

[Jase Robertson]

Dad would not allow me to wear that. Couldn't wear a corduroy and I don't know why. So there's no. If you're a. I'm gonna go down.

[Zach Dasher]

There and talk a Seafield tomorrow. So I'm gonna ask him and see if he.

[Jase Robertson]

Not sure that memory is going to be there.

[Zach Dasher]

We're gonna find out.

[Phil Robertson]

Sometimes the old stuff is Tony told.

[Zach Dasher]

You that he was.

[Phil Robertson]

Tony sent me a note Saturday which was encouraging and I wish I had been in town because I'd love to gone out and seen for myself. But he was like, your dad is on point today. He seems like either I went and.

[Jase Robertson]

Saw him yesterday, so I'll give a fail report. And I do think, you know, he's doing better.

[Phil Robertson]

But you know, he hadn't been in pain for a while now. So.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, overall look, the conditions and diagnosis is. Are the same. So you got to keep it in mind. It becomes a perspective thing and. But he's. He's feeling better and like you say, some days he does seem more normal. Having said that, I walked in and it felt like a meat locker in there.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh my goodness. Oh, cold.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, it was so cold.

[Phil Robertson]

I went in the other day was 80 and I was having trouble breathing.

[Jase Robertson]

That's why I'm fixed to tell you. So my mom was on the couch with about six blankets. And she said, does it seem cold in here to you? And I'm like, no, it doesn't seem cold. There was no transition from outside. So I went over and looked at the thermostat. I think it said 48. And yikes. I said, well, here's your problem. And she's like, well, what? I was like, you've turned the heat off. It was just off. So I flicked it on. Well, then my mom started griping about Phil, and I was like, okay, he might have turned it off, but all I did was come over here and turn it on at your house. So I was kind of. She was a bit grumpy about it. But then Phil got up, and, I mean, it was pretty late in the day because I. I started talking real loud because she said, he was asleep. And he got up, he's like, it's cold in here. I was like, yep, see right here. And so I was like, I think you turned off the heat. So we have that kind of stuff going on, you know, which is, I guess, not abnormal for their age, but.

[Zach Dasher]

It'S part of it.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. But still, I'm glad I went down there because I was like, it's pretty chilly in here, but he is doing better, and we do appreciate the prayers. And we were on a pretty good regiment for just trying to improve, you know, his health with the conditions that he has.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. And the letters. We've gotten so many of you just in emails. It's been quite the encouragement for me personally as well. I do want to give a shout out to Lisa. Yesterday we talked about Zach's birthday. Today is Lisa's birthday. And not. She probably won't hear this because she's like, missy. She doesn't listen to our podcast, but happy birthday to her. She was to show you how influence and impact work. She was showing houses yesterday. It was young couple, engaged. They were looking for their first home. And so, you know, for her, that's part of the reason she. Why she got into selling real estate. And she sells most of it down in Alabama. And so she was up in the Sarah Land area, which is in the Mobile area. And so I was on my way home, and so she called me, she said, you know, I don't believe this. This couple, I was showing this house, and she said, they loved it. They're going to buy it. I said, that's great, babe. And she said, and he loved to hunt. So he was talking about hunting, and his email has something to do with fishing. And she Said, I mean, they've been together for an hour or two looking at houses. And she said, well, you know, do you know what family I'm from? She said, he looked kind of sheepish and he was like, yeah, they told me, but I just didn't want to bring it up. I didn't want to make it weird and all this, you know. He said, I love your family and I've always loved Phil and big impact on me. So it was pretty neat. Then he said, and my parents came over to West Monroe at some point in the last decade and your dad, your, your father in law baptized my dad and Al baptized my mom. Of course, you know, we baptized a lot of people. So I didn't remember exactly who she was. But he said, you know, your family has helped really shape my family. I just want to say thanks for that as well as helping us find this house. So I just thought about it. You know, we do what we do and you don't think about the impact of it just in everyday life, but it makes a difference. I mean, it spreads out over time. I've always said, I thought the first, you know, I don't know how much time when you think about eternity, when we kind of have a ability to see the whole thing, you know, when it jays you compared it to seeing video clips, when we have a chance to really connect all the dots because we'll have that capacity, that eternal capacity. I mean, isn't it going to be neat to find out people that were impacted by this podcast or about some other thing? Maybe just you sharing with somebody on an airplane one time and maybe it didn't hit until three or four generations down, some influence. I mean, that's going to happen.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I always go back to this John 20, which was a catalyst in me taking Jesus seriously being the son of God, which is what the book of John is about. And a couple of podcasts ago, you know, the fascinating thing about John's letter and just Jesus in general is that at that last moment, as far as post resurrection, the last moments of his letter, you see these three characters, you know, Mary who's crying, but she actually was the first person that got to announce Jesus had been raised from the dead through her tears and mistaken identity. Remember, she thought he was the gardener, which makes you think, is this going back to the garden of Eden or you have that kind of element and then you have Thomas through his doubts. Once he saw, he said, I just have to got to know. Which then John would say, well, this is kind of Written for those who don't see and believe.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

But through his doubts, he was the first one I believe who said, my Lord and my God. Which kind of takes you back to the first verse. It says, God, he was with God, he was God, but he's distinct from God. And he's like, my Lord and my God. And. And then Peter, who had denied him three times and even in that conversation was a little bit bizarre when you look at the actual Greek language, because he was like, do you love me? Which Jesus was using the full extent of the sacrificial love. And Peter's like, I love you. He was using the word of yeah, we're friends, of course. I. So even in his denial and him not really getting it in the moment there, he uses that to use them anyway and to forgive them anyway and to then start a mission, you know, kind of give you that idea of this is what the church is going to do. You're going to go out despite your tears, your pain, your doubts, your failures, and I'm going to use you, which I think is very powerful. But in John 20, when he has that to me, that come and eat breakfast, I just really think that when people say, well, I don't know what heaven's going to be like or what are we going to do, you hear all that. It's like the number one question every time I get in a Bible study, it's like, well, what are we going to do for millions of years? And I just want to shout because I really had an epiphany reading John last night, preparing for this. We're going to live. Did you know how many times the word life is mentioned in the Book of John?

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, It's a lot.

[Jase Robertson]

36. Three dozen.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

To put it in perspective, because I did the math on this. In all of Paul's writings, I mean, how many books did he write?

[Phil Robertson]

13, maybe four times.

[Jase Robertson]

13. He only mentions it 37 times. Wow, 36 times. So I'm like, this is about living life, eternal life. And that little scene of Jesus post resurrection, sharing a meal, and not only that, orchestrating the whole fishing expedition, that memory, that moment, but this was. He's post resurrection now and we're going to be like him. I just think it's going to be more real life than we're thinking.

[Zach Dasher]

Will, talk to me. Abc Tuesday. They took his daughter. She's coming home alive. Will Trent, the series critics are calling Powerful Must see TV continues to thrill. Shouldn't we strategize before we go in There. If we screw up this case, a cop killer walks free. With the riveting conclusion to a two part season premiere. Tbi Get Down Will Tread. All new Tuesday on ABC and stream on Hulu. I think that the reason why people ask that question, which I've asked that question myself. I've thought that a lot. And I think it's because of going back to the last podcast, when I talked about the songs we would sing, we, we had a, a disembodied view of eternity. It was, it was out there.

[Jase Robertson]

And, and I think gaseous mist floating around.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, it's just like a.

[Jase Robertson]

Doing like exploring this, like space travelers with all gaseous mist.

[Phil Robertson]

Somehow even the sayings, like, this person is on cloud nine. Meaning like you're just ethereal, like you're floating out into, you know, you're not a real person.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. Harp. And even the people that like, well, we're just going to worship for millions of years. I mean, look, I'm all, I'm sure we will be doing that in some capacity. But I'm just based on what I'm reading. Life. Why is he doing that? Just stop and time out. Why is he doing this? Why is he catching some fish with these earthly being? People say, well, it was just a sign that he had been raised. Okay. But I mean, he had fish on the charcoal and then he said, bring me some more fish. He's like, why? Because there's more people here now. We're going to have a meal together. He's like, come, let's have breakfast. If you don't think that that's some kind of, you know, mirror into what we're going to experience, I just think you're crazy.

[Phil Robertson]

It's what you, it's like what you told the woman that time in the roundabout. Never forget that story you told on the podcast. She was on her phone texting. She didn't realize she was at a full stop in a roundabout. And you rolled your window down and you went live.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, you've stopped your life in a roundabout. You've got a phone in one hand, a cheeseburger in the other, and all of life has stopped here. You're no longer living. You're in fantasy world.

[Zach Dasher]

You're in a vortex of just like the mindless, numbing dopamine hits of a phone. But if you ask this question of 10 people, you go around West Monroe and you go to 10 different churches because we're in the Bible Belt right here. And you ask this question, what did Jesus die for? If you ask that question to 10 people, I bet you that all 10 of them will give the same answer. And the answer will be that Jesus died for my sins. And while that is true, we're tracking.

[Jase Robertson]

I was literally fixed to bring this up.

[Zach Dasher]

You were?

[Jase Robertson]

Well, because we're also just getting my sins taken care of. But I was going to say he came for. He became a human force.

[Phil Robertson]

He died for me.

[Jase Robertson]

What is the problem with me and God? Okay, sin. But the problem is we're not living together anymore.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, listen. Listen to this. I'm actually preaching tonight at the Hub.

[Jase Robertson]

You need to preach this.

[Zach Dasher]

I am. This is the. This is that what you're saying is the totality.

[Phil Robertson]

We call this when. When you're not here, when you're in North Carolina, we call this sermon prep.

[Zach Dasher]

Sermon prep.

[Phil Robertson]

Right now we're prepping.

[Jase Robertson]

Right now we're prepping, but we're tracking because it's amazing that we did not confer with what we're talking about.

[Zach Dasher]

Never had a conversation.

[Jase Robertson]

And we are in the same lane.

[Zach Dasher]

And, And. And I. I think people. It's almost. It's difficult to have the conversation because if I tell you, what did Jesus die? If I ask you the question, what did Jesus die for? And you say, my sins, you're not technically wrong.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, right.

[Zach Dasher]

The problem is it's not complete because if you fast forward to John 6, Jesus says this. He said John 6, 47. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life, to your point of the word life, repeatedly used in the. In the Gospel of John, I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh. So when you read John 6, yes, Jesus died for my sins, but probably more fundamentally, in the end of that is for the life of the world. That's why Jesus said he gave his flesh for the life of the world. And so the payment for our sin, it's not the end of it. The payment for our sin is a means to an end. In the end is what you talked about. It's union with Christ. Christ is the prize. He's the ultimate.

[Jase Robertson]

God is the ultimate. Why become a human? So people will answer that. Well, he had to do something for our sin problem. Okay, we're not disagreeing with that. And we will preach that on a daily basis. But he became a human to save humans. Humans need a savior, and it's not just an example. And you're like, well, why do they need a savior? So we can dwell together. Heaven and earth coming together, God and humans meeting.

[Zach Dasher]

And why can't we dwell together? It is. I mean, if you want to make the case that it's because God can't be with us, that's a case you can make. And I'm not disagreeing with it. But it's not all of the case, because what he says here in First John 4, which is there's a term about payment for sin here, this big word called propitiation. It says that in this is love. Not that we love God. This is 1 John 4:10, but that he loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sin, to be the payment. But. But he goes on to say this, beloved, if God so loved us, we are to love one another. No one who has ever seen God, excuse me, no one has ever seen God, if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. So the idea is that it's the union with Christ. The reason why Christ paid for our sin is so that, like you said, we could be in his presence. And the reason for that is the word life. That's why, if you back up to verse nine, right before he says that, he says, in this love, God was made manifest among us that God sent His only Son in the world. He said, why did he do that? Here's why. So that we might live through Him. And I think so often the gospel that we preach is the gospel of death. It's only about death. It's about Jesus died for our sins. Well, yeah, he died for our sins, but to what end? So that we might live with Him. That's the end of it. Is life with Christ.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. Can I read something? So for what he's saying. So let's just read Galatians 2 before we read that.

[Phil Robertson]

Jay. Propitiation. I always like to look up words because that's a biblical word there in Zack's translation. The act of appeasing a God, spirit or person, atonement, especially that of Jesus Christ. So just throw that in there.

[Jase Robertson]

So if you think, what is the point of this? Because I've used this verse many times saying, you know, Christ died for my sins. But watch what Zach just said in this little section. This is Galatians 2:17. If while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners. Does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not. So you immediately think, okay, we're talking about Christ has justified us by his death on a cross for our sins. True. For what? Read the next verse. If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I'm a lawbreaker. For through the law, I died to the law so that I might live for God. Which is exactly what you just said. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live. Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. There's a lot of living here. There's a lot of life.

[Phil Robertson]

I was sitting there thinking when you were describing that it's like a person. You hear a lot of young people say, well, you know, I got married, so, you know, now I don't sleep around. I don't do this, I don't do that. As if marriage became just a reason for you to stop some bad habits. No, marriage became a covenant relationship for you to live with another person for the rest of your life. Well, just now it will cut off some of that bad behavior. But the bottom line is, that's not why you get married.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, on a practical thing. So if you go to Ephesians 4 and, like, when he talks about not stealing, you remember what he said. That wasn't the end in 4. 28. Says, he who has been stealing must steal no longer. Yeah, okay. Why? But he must work. Well, does that have something to do with not stealing? No. He then tells you why you must work. Doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. That's good that the whole point was not so much about stealing, it was about sharing.

[Zach Dasher]

This is John 1:1. I'm going to read the first five verses. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. And the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. So he's talking about a person here. All things were made through. Through Him. And without him was not anything made that was made. And here's what it has to do with it. Verse 4. In him was life, and it was life. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. So you say, what does this have to do with the whole Gospel of John? He bases the entire arrival, the entire adventure of the Christ, the Logos, the Word that came in the flesh. The entire thing is rooted in this concept that in him, in the Word, in the Logos, in the Christ is life, and that the life was the light of men. So you say, what am I looking for? I want life. And so a good question to ask is, well, what is life? What does that actually mean? You know what I mean?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

It's not. I'll tell you what it's not. It's not isolation. Life is not being alone. It's not Mad Max, every man for himself, anarchy, consumption. That's actually description of hell, what life is. Life is something that's shared. I love that you said that verse. It's shareable. It's that scene at the end of the wedding, you know what I mean? Where you're sitting around, the kids run around the yard. It's good wine, great food, wonderful fellowship with the people that you love, and telling the stories to your belly, laughing. That's life. That's what Christ came to offer his community life in him, partakers of the divine nature. And the opposite of that is things that would lead to isolation, despair, loneliness, which is, if you look at any sin, that's ultimately what it leads to.

[Phil Robertson]

And to your point, even beyond the sin side of it, it's like throughout 2000 years of history with the idea of the monks. We just need to go somewhere on a mountaintop where we remove ourselves from everything in culture and man. Look at the relationship we'll have with Christ. But where do you get to share that then? If you're isolated in a hilltop building for your whole life, trying to get closer to God, you'll miss the most important part of life, and that's relationship with other people. You can't do that either. You can't isolate yourself, even in a religious fashion.

[Zach Dasher]

That's right. Good point.

[Jase Robertson]

So I had a guy reach out to me, giving his testimony and said, I want to know what you think. Good friend of mine, known him, known him for years, and we share a lot of common tragedy. And I've been knowing this person for years. And so I read it. It was absolutely beautiful. Made me cry about, you know, just what happened in their life, Jesus saving them. It was all beautiful in that, all the shame and pain that Jesus had taken away. And it was a lot of the, you know, before Christ and just outcrying to God. I mean, it was really beautiful. So I read it all and I thought, there's something missing here, even as beautiful as it was. And it kind of culminated with, you know, Jesus on a cross you know, for all this shame, sin. And I guess the more I thought about it for about a day, I sent a text and said, let's have a conversation. Because it kind of hit me what was missing, what was missing. And I was like, it was a difficult thing because as beautiful as it was, and I disagreed with nothing in it. And I thought it was a powerful testimony. I said, I feel like the missing part is the resurrection was never mentioned. And so it got kind of weird because we started talking about the resurrection, but it was like, well, how do you put that in the testimony? And I kept thinking about First Corinthians 15, although I didn't bring it up because it was a delicate situation. Somebody pours their heart out and you're reading it and it's all fantastic. But I thought if I was going to give a testimony or to a public audience, because this person was fixing to give this. I just kept thinking, what does the new self look like? This is all about Jesus taking care of the old self, but what does the new self look like? And I thought about this First Corinthians 15 to go in with Zach's point. It says, for if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you're still in your sins. Why is he making this bridge of the resurrection and sins? So the reason I brought up that Ephesians 4, you know, that was right after he said, I'll have to look exactly where it is. He was describing this. Not stealing, but working to share. You remember he was describing the new self. And that's where the resurrection comes into play. Think Romans 8, 11. If the Spirit of Christ is living in you, not only will he give life. The same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, if it's living in you, will also give life to your mortal body. So we immediately think, well, that's going to happen later, but that if the Spirit of Christ is living in you, there's. It's the name of your podcast. Yeah, there's two things happening. And so back to the Ephesians 4.

[Zach Dasher]

When he says both things can be true at the same time.

[Phil Robertson]

When think about it, just like with the cross was powerful, but unless the Spirit reanimated Jesus body and for him to be glorified flesh forever, I mean, the Bible tells us that that's a deposit for us.

[Zach Dasher]

That's a great point. Because think about this. If you want to take it like, if you really want to raise the stakes of the conversation. If what we're talking about is only a future reality, then what is the point of the Holy Spirit?

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

And he's the key to everything.

[Jase Robertson]

That's why I think the Hebrew writer went through the. He went through the whole hall of faith. All these people died. We got to have faith and it shows all their faith. But then he gets to the end and he says, but they didn't even receive what was promised. Only together with us would they receive what had been promised. Which is kind of a difficult passage because you're like, what does that mean? Jesus, when he died, did it go backwards? Yes, but it also goes forwards. But then you realize then when you start talking about the resurrection. Because chapter 12, which I don't think should have been a break in the chapter, it says, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily tangles. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith. But, but I'm saying you can't just have the death of cross there without the resurrection. Because what happens in our life, people die and people die who we don't think they should have died. From babies to warriors in the Lord. I mean, things happen. Well, if you don't have the resurrection or the spirit of Christ in you, what are we going to do with that? Everything stops. I think that's when the resurrection becomes real and it's a part of our new self where if we all die tomorrow, I'm talking about everybody in this room. I would think because other people have the spirit of Christ and they know that this is all about life, they're going to just put our names in the margins of Hebrews 11, which. The first person who told me that was Mac Owen. And our grandpa died. We were upset. I was like, well, I'm pretty sure he made it. Why am I so upset? But he, in his encouragement, he wrote in his margin, my grandpa and boy, I'm telling you, that had a profound impact on me because I thought, now is this real or are we just faking? Because we're all going to die. So all I'm saying that was a long rant saying that I think there's a reason the death, burial and resurrection culminated all of the gospel writers stories. And when you start trying to apply it to your life, it goes together. We are thankful that Christ died for our sins, but we just don't end it there. We're like, hey, he came back from the dead. This is about humans living a new life here and then a new life through eternity, because then we'll have a new body.

[Zach Dasher]

To go back to the question though, of when you ask it, what are we going to be doing in heaven or in eternity? One of the things that I think we miss in this too, when we have that disembodied view of eternity, is we forget, and I just read commentator on this who says that the main, one of the main ways that we're made in the image of God, you know, first Genesis 1:26,127, God made us in his image, is that we have dominion. And you see it in the, in the garden, by the way, when he says, go be fruitful and multiply, Go subdue the earth and rule over it. So the, it's called the cultural mandate, which was essentially the instruction from God to man. This is pre fall. It's pre sin, was to go work. Like, go take the garden of Eden and then expand that garden through your work and through your effort across the entire globe. In other words, go create culture, go create art, go create gardens, music, food, go do, take this garden and spread it throughout the entire earth. And so man and woman, mankind in the garden was given dominion. And when you think about that pre fall, that was meaningful to us. And we kind of see it now. If you look at little kids running around, like if you look at little six or seven year old kids, like when our kids were growing up, they played this game called the game, they called it Life. And they literally would pretend like they were adults and they were creating businesses, they had ledgers and they played this game. Every time the cousins got together, they would play this game and they're playing what I hate to do, like they're playing work, but they're enjoying it because they haven't really backed my grandkids still playing, they still do it. And so like, they're not corrupted yet. So like initially, work was created as something that was good, and then the fall was what? By the. You'll work, Adam, but by the sweat of your brow. You're going to till the soil and it's going to produce thorns and thistles for you. So the curse was not work. The curse, the fall after the fall was that work is now going to be difficult because it's going to produce thorns and thistles for you. So when you think about all this, why does this matter? Because part of what it means to have dominion, and maybe at its core biblical dominion is not about domination, it's actually about sacrificing, meeting the needs of others, which creates the whole thing we call commerce and economies and all that. It all comes out of this, right? I sacrifice to you, you sacrifice to me. We have an exchange and we create culture that way. So I think when you try to imagine heaven, we're not going to be floating spirits floating around. We're actually going to have meaningful work to do. We're going to be building things together. We're going to be inventing things for the glory of God. It's going to be a place that's tangible, that you can put your fingers and you can touch it. You could eat fish. And we're going to have all kinds of new fish recipes, all that. It's going to just be an eternity.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, wouldn't that be a description of a new heaven and a new earth?

[Zach Dasher]

That's exactly what it would be.

[Jase Robertson]

It would be, I go back to the Genesis 1, where he created the heavens and the earth and then he sends Jesus and all of a sudden you see that there's a possibility to be born again.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, because that's the whole deal. He brings life, he brings new life.

[Zach Dasher]

And that's the point.

[Jase Robertson]

When we get to John 3, I'm going to lay something on you that will knock your socks off. And I don't even know if you're going to agree with it.

[Zach Dasher]

You've already got me nervous about it, but I might. Don't bring it up yet. Let's hang on.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm not going to bring it up yet. But you will. Required reading will be Ezekiel 36 and 37, because that John 3, you know, John 3:16 gets all the headlines. But Jesus tells, you know, it's be like telling one of your religious leaders in the country, not just at your local church, hey, you need to be born again. Wait, what? And so there's been so many books written about what he meant and where that went. And people go to Ezekiel 36 and 37 because it's a prophecy about this kind of new birth here that uses the same language. Just to give you a little hint. In Ezekiel 36, 26, this Ezekiel given this prophecy says, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you. I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And that comes on the heels of him saying, In 24, I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. And then he says, I will give you a new heart, new spirit. What do you think this is pointing to? Can we just agree on that?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

There's a Son of man, there's a Savior coming, God's coming to the earth. And we know where this is headed. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because when it says, I'll give you that heart of flesh, I was like, what exactly does he mean? Well, then when he gets to the next chapter, it's a famous chapter, it's a valley of dry bones. And then all of a sudden, he creates tendons and they have this flesh and they come to life, in fact.

[Phil Robertson]

And he breathes life.

[Jase Robertson]

He breathes life. Which now we're going back to the creation story. And what I'm saying, I'm only introducing that because I want you to go read it. So when we get to John 3, you might say, oh, I might have missed that at my local church, when the person who was saying that all flesh is bad and so it can't be, meaning we can't have a new body when we come back from the dead, or we can't have a new body here when we have the Holy Spirit. Because I'm going to tell you, when you come to Christ, your life gets better and your life will become eternal. You will be eternally better, especially post resurrection of your body. And so I really think that's a theme in the Book of John. I'm glad we went here because he mentioned it 36 times.

[Phil Robertson]

I wanted to bring up something, Zach, for you to hold your thought. Don't forget it. Because you brought this up, Jace, earlier. And I think it goes in with what you're saying, Zach, because why we struggle with the idea of the eternal being in the here and now. You said something about Thomas being the first one to say, my, my Lord and my God.

[Jase Robertson]

Was that accurate? I thought that was true.

[Phil Robertson]

It is. And so here's what. And then you were reading out of John 6aminute ago, Zach, and it says, at this, what you read, at this, at that, what you read. The Jews began to grumble about him because he said, I am the bread that came down from heaven. And they said, is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, I came down from heaven? And so it hit me when you both were talking about that in the first century, when the people were there with Jesus, the hardest thing for them to embrace was his Divinity, the idea that he really was from heaven, he was the Son of Yahweh, he was from God.

[Jase Robertson]

And still is.

[Phil Robertson]

And still is. But you fast forward 2000 years, and here's what's happened. It's easier for us, I believe, to believe in the divinity of Christ and much harder for us to believe in the humanity of Christ.

[Zach Dasher]

That's good.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. Which is exactly why shows like the Chosen come out and religious people get up in arms. Because they say, oh, that just seems like us, too.

[Jase Robertson]

It literally infuriates me.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. But it's because it shows so much. Not only just the humanity of Jesus, but the humanity around.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, their claim is not the Bible. I'm like, well, neither is this podcast. Neither is your preacher's sermon.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean, we all use our illustrations.

[Phil Robertson]

And what I'm saying is it's living. So Jesus was a human being. So for us, what we do is then we sanitize that to the point we see. Yeah. The only reason he came down here is because he was God and he had to get on that cross to wipe out our sins. And so we're only thinking about that instead of the fact that he came.

[Zach Dasher]

And lived here for us, which is that. That is the point of the first.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, we're not negating it.

[Phil Robertson]

No.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, that's why a guy we all listen to is just been brutalized in the Western society, which is NT Wright, because he's like, look, he's not saying Jesus didn't die of that person. He's all 40. He's like, there's just a lot more.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. To your point, at the end of John, John said, there's way more. You can't even write it off.

[Zach Dasher]

I think NT Wright does kind of like to tweak his adversaries.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, I think so. But that's probably why we like, well, guess what? So do I.

[Zach Dasher]

But, you know, but think about it.

[Jase Robertson]

You know what's weird is this morning, because Missy, I don't know if she probably doesn't want me to say that, but she does a fast every year. And it's very incredible to watch, but I'm so impressed by it because she just spends a lot of time in the Word, and I mean, she's shrinking literally before my eyes because she, you know, she's fasting, but she watches the Chosen over and over and over. And so we were talking about that day on why we like it, which is crazy. Y'all brought this up. And I said, you know what it is? It's these little things, you know, seeing Mary shed a tear and you can read that, but when you picture it and see it's all. It's life is what it is. And which I told her, you know, I hugged her for. I left. And I said, see, this is. This is life. Well, she. I mean, she busted out laughing when I said that. I got kind of syrupy, you know, but I was like, I mean, it's picnics with people you love. It's, you know, going to see the grandkids and. But when you put Jesus as an actual person, you're watching and seeing all these little moments. It's not the big stuff, which is what the religious world, they're like, oh, this is not word for word. But I'm like, but it becomes real that this God became a man and had conversations with other people. You know, these little moments happen because they happen to us every day, which really makes life worth living. And I'm like, don't miss the thrilling aspect of God became a man. He lived life. We saw it, and they captured the big moments. It's like, well, yeah, but what about all those years? You know, we don't have his childhood. That's why I think this is unusual, because it's not a biography about Jesus, because what do you have to have when you have a biography? They say, well, he was born. And so, well, we got the birth. Then we skip over pretty much the majority of his life, except for one instance when he was at his father's.

[Zach Dasher]

House, which I think that was birthed 12 years old. Then we're what, 30, 30, 30 years old until he's. So it's mainly about. The bulk of this whole thing is about three years of his life. Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

So my point, and most of it.

[Zach Dasher]

The last two weeks.

[Jase Robertson]

So my point is, what was the purpose of that? Well, the purpose was this is not a biography. This is about God becoming a man. But you can fill in the blanks because I'm pretty sure that he lived a pretty normal life for 30 years. Can you not explore that?

[Zach Dasher]

You know, it's interesting, though, when you said that in the past we had maybe people had an issue with his divinity, and now it's more with his humanity. If you strip Christ of his divinity, then you have a powerless Messiah, but if you strip Christ of his humanity, then you have a loveless Messiah. And I think that that's the point of John, chapter one, verses one through, well, 13, is that this God, he sets this up as talking about the supremacy, the sovereignty, the Fact that he was the agent in creation, and he's, like, building this up. But the whole idea is that that word became flesh. He put on flesh. And that's why we're hitting the importance of the physical universe. The reason why we hit that so hard in the physical nature of the kingdom. I heard a pastor once say, I can't wait to go to heaven and get rid of this meat suit. I'm thinking, well, that's not in the Bible, a meat suit. I mean, that's how you.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, flesh that God created.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, but it's only Christianity that holds up the physical universe in very high regard and very high esteem. Say, well, what does it have to do with our current cultural issues today? Look, the whole transgender movement is a misunderstanding that you are not separate from your body. And Christ shows that Christ comes in bodily form to say, no, your body matters. Your body, the physical universe, is extremely important. And so I even thought, this Sunday, we're singing, and I can't help it. I'm seeing this everywhere now. We're singing a very old hymn, Amazing Grace, and I'm all into it until the very last line. And I'm like, I thought, is that true the earth will dissolve like snow? I don't think so. I don't think the earth's going to fade. I don't think that's what the Bible teaches, that the earth just goes away, and then we just float into the ethos. You know, the physical world matters because God said it mattered, and he made it. And he said, it's very good. And not only did he say that, he also says, I'm going to become human flesh. So when the Lord became flesh, when Yahweh, when the word of Yahweh, the logos, became human flesh, he is saying it matters even more so with the resurrection.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, yeah, exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

Which is why the resurrection just validates it. The new birth starts here. So we're not waiting just to die, to be reborn. We've already been reborn. That's the whole idea about faith.

[Jase Robertson]

Look, the one time I thought I was actually literally going to get stoned at a church building after I gave a sermon is when I literally thought I was going to get stoned in the parking lot. Because I said, God, you don't mean on drugs.

[Phil Robertson]

You mean, like rocks thrown at you?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, on the church.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. Oh, I got. I mean, get out of here.

[Zach Dasher]

Don't ever come back.

[Jase Robertson]

I said, God is gender neutral. And, boy, here was the point I made. I said, even though he's Referred to as. Because back then, there was a lot of controversy that God is, in Genesis, it's a masculine pronoun. I was like, but he created in his image male and female in his image. You get the connection here. And they were the completion of his image, male and female coming together. Now, I made the point of, you know, one day that would be a sign that we would be married to Jesus. There's neither male nor female. You know, I was like, it does refer to him as a masculine pronoun. But you would have thought, because all of a sudden it's like, well, that's what the liberal humanity is saying. And I'm like, I don't care what they're saying. But God is pro man and woman in his image. They both came from him. So in that light, I was saying he was gender neutral, which maybe I could have.

[Zach Dasher]

You didn't mean. You weren't making a doctrine out of the whole thing. You were talking. I see what you're saying. I mean, you see that in Prodigal Son. Rembrandt's prodigal son is. You should Google this picture. If you're listening, just Google Rembrandt. Prodigal Son. It's a famous painting. And look at the hands as the prodigal son embraces the son. And you'll see one of the hands looks like a very strong, masculine, fatherly hand, and the other one is that motherly sweet embrace.

[Jase Robertson]

One of the verses I use. Remember when Jesus said, I'm gathering around like a mother with. Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

How long to gather you under my wings?

[Phil Robertson]

I said that about Jesus?

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, about Jesus.

[Zach Dasher]

And I was like, matthew, how long? He said it to Israel. Oh, Israel.

[Phil Robertson]

Paul says it, too. So it's both.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I was making the point that. That so much of, you know, people don't believe in God. They're like, well, the Bible's against women. And I was like, oh, no, no, he. I mean. And we said on the last podcast, Mary was the first one to announce that Jesus had been raised. I mean, it was a special moment Here.

[Phil Robertson]

Your point is made pretty strongly when the verse that says, there is no longer male and female.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, you know, you would think. But didn't like it. Didn't like it.

[Zach Dasher]

But you. I mean, you're not saying that God doesn't. God does carry a masculine pronoun in all of scripture.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I'm not saying that. That is the grammar. That's a. I would think if someone did a little research, they'd find that out. Mm.

[Phil Robertson]

All right. Well, we'll get into that and more next time. I want to close with this quote, since we brought up nt Right. He said the Book of John is a pool that's safe enough for children to paddle in, but deep enough for an elephant to swim in.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And I thought that's pretty good, which.

[Jase Robertson]

Is why we're doing this overview, because that's what John did.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, he basically the current is strong enough for a heretic to drown in. I just came up with that's pretty.

[Phil Robertson]

Cool added by Zach. We'll see you next time on the show. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.