Ep 1041 | Spiritual Warfare: Angels, Demons, Good & Evil Are All Around Us

Summary

Episode Summary: Ep 1041 | Spiritual Warfare: Angels, Demons, Good & Evil Are All Around Us

Podcast Information:

• Title: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
• Host/Author: Tread Lively
• Episode: Ep 1041
• Release Date: February 14, 2025
• Description: The Robertson family openly shares their Christian faith, aiming to spread the Gospel beyond church walls. Hosts Phil, Al, Jase, Zach, and special guests engage in meaningful discussions, biblical studies, and inspiring stories of faith and family from West Monroe, Louisiana.

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Introduction to Spiritual Warfare

In this episode, Phil Robertson, Jase Robertson, and Zach Dasher explore the profound topic of spiritual warfare, delving into the existence and influence of angels, demons, good, and evil in our daily lives. The discussion is enriched by their personal anecdotes and theological insights, setting the stage for a deep exploration of the unseen battles that shape our spiritual journeys.

Guest Introduction: Jonathan Pacluda

Jonathan Pacluda, a respected pastor and author, joins the conversation to share his expertise on spiritual warfare. Jonathan provides a personal narrative about his journey from a non-denominational church to full-time ministry, highlighting his experiences with spiritual battles and the realization of the pervasive influence of evil forces.

Defining Spiritual Warfare

Jonathan begins by addressing the common misconceptions about spiritual warfare, emphasizing its significance in the Christian faith:

“The Bible has more to say about spiritual warfare than it does about marriage.”
— Jonathan Pacluda [37:39]

He explains that spiritual warfare is not just about recognizing the existence of demons but understanding their active role in hindering our relationship with God. Jonathan underscores the eternal nature of the spiritual realm versus the temporary state of the physical world.

Common Misconceptions and Challenges

The conversation highlights two primary mistakes people make regarding spiritual warfare:

1. Denial of Demonic Existence:

   “CS Lewis says there's two mistakes we make about the devils. One is, you know, being. Believing that they don't exist.”
   — Jonathan Pacluda [41:56]

2. Overestimation of Demonic Influence:

   “The other is, you know, believing that they are involved in everything that we do.”
   — Jonathan Pacluda [41:56]

Jonathan introduces a third mistake: Believing in Demons but Indifferent to Their Impact. He emphasizes that mere acknowledgment without action leaves believers vulnerable to spiritual isolation and loss of intimacy with God.

The Core Battle: Intimacy vs. Isolation

Jonathan articulates that the essence of spiritual warfare lies in maintaining a close relationship with God while resisting Satan's attempts to isolate individuals:

“Satan is trying to keep us from having an intimate relationship, a deep closeness with God.”
— Jonathan Pacluda [43:35]

He draws parallels between the Garden of Eden and contemporary life, illustrating how sin creates distance from God, and spiritual warfare involves overcoming these barriers through repentance and active faith.

Practical Strategies for Engaging in Spiritual Warfare

The discussion transitions to actionable steps believers can take to combat spiritual evils:

1. Confession and Repentance:

   “The solution is confession. It's repentance. It's like, 'I'm going to turn from this. I'm going to make it really difficult for me to continue in this sin.'”
   — Jonathan Pacluda [43:35]

2. Building Community:
   Emphasizing the importance of communal faith, Jonathan and the hosts discuss how being part of a faith community strengthens individuals against spiritual attacks.

3. Awareness and Education:
   Jonathan advocates for a deeper understanding of spiritual matters, encouraging believers to educate themselves to recognize and combat spiritual threats effectively.

Real-World Examples of Spiritual Warfare

Jonathan shares compelling anecdotes that illustrate the tangible effects of spiritual battles:

“I tell this crazy story of being in a country club. And this, this guy just going wild on me... I think Satan's going to show up more and more.”
— Jonathan Pacluda [39:44]

These stories serve to humanize and bring relatability to the abstract concept of spiritual warfare, demonstrating its presence in everyday situations.

Impact and Reception of Jonathan’s Ministry

The hosts commend Jonathan’s dedication and the positive reception of his work:

“It's a fantastic book. Your story has a villain. It's broken down simply and yet you know such a, such a valuable type of who the villain is, what the villain does, how to fight back.”
— Phil Robertson [51:01]

Jonathan shares testimonials highlighting how his book has resonated with readers, providing both enlightenment and practical guidance on navigating spiritual struggles.

Conclusion: Embracing Victory Through Faith

As the episode concludes, the discussion reinforces the overarching message of victory through faith and unity with God:

“Greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world.”
— Jonathan Pacluda [46:34]

The hosts and Jonathan emphasize the importance of steadfastness in faith, community support, and continuous growth in the spiritual journey to overcome the forces of evil.

Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• Jonathan Pacluda:
  “The Bible has more to say about spiritual warfare than it does about marriage.” [37:39]
  “CS Lewis says there's two mistakes we make about the devils. One is, you know, being. Believing that they don't exist. The other is, you know, believing that they are involved in everything that we do.” [41:56]
  “Satan is trying to keep us from having an intimate relationship, a deep closeness with God.” [43:35]

• Phil Robertson:
  “It's a fantastic book. Your story has a villain. It's broken down simply and yet you know such a, such a valuable type of who the villain is, what the villain does, how to fight back.” [51:01]

• Jase Robertson:
  “Christianity is a team sport. We weren't made to go at this alone.” [54:57]

Key Takeaways

• Understanding Spiritual Warfare: Recognizing the existence and active role of spiritual forces in everyday life is crucial for maintaining a strong relationship with God.

• Combatting Misconceptions: Avoiding both denial and overemphasis of demonic activities ensures a balanced and effective approach to spiritual battles.

• Practical Engagement: Confession, repentance, community support, and continuous education are vital strategies in overcoming spiritual challenges.

• Victory Through Unity: Strong communal ties and steadfast faith provide the necessary support to triumph over evil forces.

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This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of spiritual warfare, blending theological insights with practical advice. Whether you're a new believer or a seasoned follower, the discussions led by the Robertson family and Jonathan Pacluda provide valuable perspectives on navigating the unseen battles that influence our spiritual lives.

Transcript

[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil Robertson]

Welcome back to Unashamed. I was. I'm in my new studio Zach and down here at the. The. The updated Southern Lair. Yeah and I'm in a very tight space here. In fact our new studio back home is. Is much bigger and roomier and I've noticed there's a lot of reasons for me to lose weight but one of them is so I can get in and out of this studio because it's a bit of a tight squeeze. So we're going to work on that.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm glad you're. You're able to talk about yourself and such a.

[Phil Robertson]

You know me Jason. It's the one thing I am is thick skinned and honest so we are.

[Jase Robertson]

Thick skinned so you can save the comments that I'm not reading. So Maddie said someone asked if you even like Zach. He's my cousin. I love him. We. We see eye to eye on a lot of things but you got to have fat, right? You will point out I didn't say that but I tell you this boys after the because I we do two podcasts in one day and I'm still not clicking on all cylinders because I had this demonic force come in me. No I'm not. I just.

[Zach Dasher]

We're going to be talking about spiritual warfare today so maybe that's exactly right.

[Jase Robertson]

Had some exorcist style and we had mentioned it on the exercise the demons Jays.

[Phil Robertson]

The whole discussion you were given made me so glad that the Holy Spirit whisked me away like it did you know fill up and some of the early because it whisked me away from West Monroe down here to the southern layer so I would be nowhere near you with this demonic flu.

[Zach Dasher]

It's the whole. It's the. It's honestly that whole area that you live in. It's that street. It's a.

[Jase Robertson]

No Zach. We live about a couple miles from a paper mill that is just. And look I have no facts on this so I mean most of my friends work at the paper mill so guess what? We'll die happy in the Lord. But it just seems like if you're pumping a lot of smoke and everybody's going and it actually stinks, you know, like why wouldn't I get sick around here? I don't know. Maybe all that smoke I'm ingesting But.

[Phil Robertson]

Jace, you and I are 50 years down the road from we were kids before they actually cleaned a lot of it up because we can remember periods where the river would turn black.

[Zach Dasher]

Dump this. Yeah they dump all the chemicals in the river. But I'll tell you what, I've. That I've. I've been sick, really sick, twice in the last eight months. And both of those experiences, the. The family of origin, and I've mentioned this on a previous podcast, was. It was Willie and Corey.

[Jase Robertson]

And so you believe that. How can you prove it? Let me go a different angle here.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Here's what I think happened. I think I'm trying to be grateful and thankful because that is part of our purpose. I believe First Thessalonians says, rejoice always pray continually. Give thanks in all circumstances. And so on the previous podcast, I mean, look, I looked at what my dad's going through, and I thought, okay, so I threw up for 24 hours. Could be worse. I'm better, you know? I mean, what. And so here's what I think it was. I just went duck hunting for 60 days. And that's. Oh, boy, that sounds so much fun. There's a lot of work that goes on. It is. It turns into a survival course. I mean, if you haven't noticed, because I probably don't think y'all would. I've lost weight. I mean, it has been. It was because I didn't have my dad there with me, and I didn't realize how much work he actually does, him and his posse.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And so that kind of fell on me. Well, then we're training the Duck Boys at the same time. I didn't sign up for that. Jay just had them lined up, like, here are the new recruits.

[Phil Robertson]

And what I misunderstood, Jay, is because I thought the Duck Boys, part of their job was to make that sort of job, your job, easier, that they were going to be the new labor force.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, that is true. However, that training, it's like when you see a drill sergeant, you think, boy, he's got a good job. Well, look at what he's having to do. He's working his butt off trying to get these young men whipped up into shape. I didn't realize how much work they're actually doing because I thought, this is a challenge. And I will say this, not all the Duck Boy. One of the duck boys is 50 years old. Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

So that's a perpetual adolescent.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And I don't want to mention any names, but that's Jersey Joe. He had never duck hunted before he came down here.

[Zach Dasher]

And you'll hurt his feelings, man.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I've already done that.

[Phil Robertson]

We're thinking in his skin.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And, well, it was so funny.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean, he is doing the work, you got to admit. I mean, he's quite a few meals. He's. He's put the work in. I would.

[Jase Robertson]

I will say, well, our relationship got started as I did not volunteer for this job to train these. These men in the world of duck hunting. But when I go duck hunting, there's a lot of things that you have to do, and basically, you have to embrace the process. I mean, I've given the Joe Paterno speech that Phil gave me many times when I was a kid. Y'all remember the Joe Paterno speech? He's like, when you shoot a bunch of ducks, you don't hoop and holler and act like that's never happened before.

[Zach Dasher]

Act like you've been there.

[Jase Robertson]

Act like you've been there. Well, here was my problem. When I started giving that speech, I was getting a puzzled look from the duck boys, and I was like, what's the problem? And somebody said, who's Joe Paterno? Okay. So I realized there's a. There's a generation. Yeah, there's a generation.

[Zach Dasher]

References aren't going to land. You're going to have to. Yeah. So you got to get on TikTok Jace, get you a tick tock and start looking at what they're talking about. It'll help you connect with the kids, with young people.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm gonna have to reserve that to my.

[Phil Robertson]

So you can only quote Nick Saban, Jace, when you're talking to this generation.

[Jase Robertson]

I don't. I don't do tick tock, nor have I ever been there. And I never got past the name and the origin.

[Phil Robertson]

But I got a question for you, Jace. Are these duck boys or buck boys or both? Because I'm confused. Zach. You saw a pict of the completion. They were sporting the deer that were killed, not the ducks. I'm confused.

[Zach Dasher]

Whoever's mentoring them on the deer hunting is doing a fine job, I will tell you that.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay. That. Now you've got the point of conflict. Everybody knows in our family, you know, Willie is kind of in charge of the deer operation.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, buck commander.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm in charge of the duck operation. We put our money where our mouth is and bought the land with my dad. With that in mind, you handle the deer, I handle the ducks. Well, here's. There's a lot of differences in that. The obvious are, you look at Willie's body type and look at mine. Well, deer is an all you can eat buffet. A duck is an appetizer. So, okay. Deer is easy.

[Zach Dasher]

Are you. Are you Calling. Hold on. Just want to clarify. Are you calling Willie fat?

[Jase Robertson]

I'll stand by what I said deer is easy, and now people say, oh, what is Jake? Deer's easy. That's why Willie does it. You know what the number one prerequisite to being a great deer hunter is? What is the most important thing?

[Phil Robertson]

Being able to sit long time and be patient.

[Jase Robertson]

Bingo. Wow. Give him a prize. Let's see. Okay, so think about that. You're telling your friends and loved ones, you know what I'm really good at? Sitting on my butt for long periods of time, pulling a trigger with a scope. That technology has gotten so far.

[Zach Dasher]

This is me. This is what you call clickbait content right here.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. So now look, having said all that, I love to eat deer. And so I used to be a deer hunter, but in a.

[Zach Dasher]

But you think. You think duck hunting is more sporty is what I used to say.

[Jase Robertson]

I don't think it is. It is way more competitive. It brings way more out of you. It's a bigger challenge. These ducks are from Canada. They came from Canada. And you have to convince them that you're painted pieces of plastic are real ducks. With just a duck call and a presentation. Come on, come on.

[Phil Robertson]

And we'll say. Jace, to buttress your point, when you look at a deer stand, it's very man made looking. I mean, you just go out there and set it down and it's there. Whereas the duck blind has to be the most natural looking apparatus in the woods.

[Jase Robertson]

If you. If you think I'm hating on deer. I love to eat deer. I may in. In part of our arguments in our. I don't know what you call it.

[Zach Dasher]

Partnership, your joint venture in the land.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, because it's a problem. Because these things keep coming up. The deer hunters, when they shoot a rifle, they flare off ducks. When I shoot a shotgun at ducks, deer just yawn. They don't care.

[Phil Robertson]

They don't even get up out of their bed.

[Jase Robertson]

The most famous scene we ever had of all ducks productions was when a deer crossed our duck hunting area. We had just shot 20 times at 2 down Gadwalls, and five seconds later, a deer came out and said, hey, what's all that racket? And my dad shot the deer and. And he did the flip. Well, we've talked about that many times.

[Phil Robertson]

And by the way, if you're new and listening and you hadn't listened, you can Google that because it's everywhere on the Internet. And watch it. The scene, one of those famous scene in Duckman Lore.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. So they didn't like my deer hunting style because I didn't shoot big bucks. Because they're not as good to eat. I don't mind watching them. Oh, great, there's a big buck. What a beautiful creation from God. I'm not hating on it.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Great.

[Jase Robertson]

If you want to go out there and watch them. But if you. I'm. I'm all into table fare. The greatest deer you can eat is under £50. I don't have to take it to a processor. I can clean it myself. There's no tenderizer used. There's zero gaminess to it. You can salt Brian if you want. You don't have to. You can just eat him right then. And it's spectacular. So that makes them nervous because they want to grow big deer. They don't like Jay shooting little deer. And they deem that they. They've convinced our kids that somehow another. That that's not appropriate or sporty. I actually, literally with one of the duck boys, his daughter, and I'm calling him a duck boy because his view on deer hunting caused him to be in that camp because his daughter, who's 9 years old, called me on the phone and said, Mr. J, please quit shooting the little deer. Let him grow up. I thought you've gotten your daughter to call me and tell me, you know, she. He let her watch Bambi three times. And then she called me and like, save the little deer. I was like, no, little girl. I'm going to kill one just for you and eat it and think of you.

[Phil Robertson]

So was that extra calisthenics for that, that duck man?

[Jase Robertson]

Well, it was an argument, and I was like, hey, if you don't agree, that's one thing, but don't bring in the little kids and indoctrinate them in this false teaching that you're saying, I eat deer, we have plenty of them, and they're better to eat, and I'm going to do it. So having said all that, I quit shoot little deer. And what they do is they say, just stay out of the deer hunting. We'll bring you a sacrificial deer lamb when you want it. So they bring.

[Zach Dasher]

And they have to be.

[Jase Robertson]

And they have they. And it's cleaned. They bring me two or three yearlings a year and I stay away. And what they do for me is they have to use a silencer or a bow. And it's been a pretty good deal. So they're deer hunting. I haven't deer hunted in five years.

[Phil Robertson]

So we've Kind of produced this here in our opening discussion, this idea of two sides. I think maybe that's our perfect lead in to our guest that's about to come on. Except this is much more serious of the discussion. He's going to talk about two sides, good and evil. And so when we come back from our break, we'll introduce our guests we got coming on today. So it was a few years ago, Jase. You know, I was coming out of ministry where I didn't make a lot of money. And I started making a little bit of money, got some good opportunities, Lord opened some doors for me, and I found myself facing the A word. The word you don't want to face your tax. Your accountant causes you and says, we got an audit coming. So then all of a sudden, I'm sideways with the IRS and not exactly sure what to do.

[Jase Robertson]

You need some help.

[Phil Robertson]

I needed some help.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Phil Robertson]

Welcome back. We have been joined by an esteemed guest that we're super excited about, Jonathan Pacluda. We're going to call you JP Jonathan just because we. Short names. That's what we do. It's. It's the Robertson way.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

That's. That's so much better than what Willie called me. So I appreciate it. I'm grateful.

[Phil Robertson]

So, Willie. So I. That. Well, that was my next question because I've seen you on Sadie's podcast. That's our sister podcast. But I was wondering your. Your experiences with that wing of our family, because Willie is his own entity. But I was wondering if he'd given you a nickname or. Probably nothing you can share on the.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Podcast, but no, I was sitting. I was sitting in staff. We have a staff meeting every Tuesday. We call Staff Prayer. And I was sitting in there, and I got this just random text that was like, hey, I heard your message of passion. You did a great job, Dash Willie. And I mean, I never talked to Willie. I never met Willie or anything. And I just was like. And I looked at that and I was like, who. Who is Willie?

[Jase Robertson]

And that you just summed up my entire life like, this is my guy.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Right here, Willie Robertson, just texting me. I'm, you know, I'm big, big fan of the whole family. I'll be honest. I've tracked. I'm a day oner. I'm an og Way back, way back fan. And, you know, all the things I'm. I'm in. I'm 100 in. And. And if you really want to make a young man's dream come true, like, let's get in a duck blind or something. I'm.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm Jason.

[Zach Dasher]

He's the guy.

[Jase Robertson]

Now, a lot of that we just, you know, you probably didn't listen to our cold open, but there's a little bit of. What is the word?

[Zach Dasher]

Animosity.

[Jase Robertson]

No, it's not animosity.

[Zach Dasher]

Conflict.

[Jase Robertson]

Tension. Tension.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Between the deer hunters and the duck hunters. And Willie's kind of the deer hunting aspect of our family. And I clearly laid out the sides. I'm the duck hunting. Duck hunting is way harder and more challenging, but it just causes a few problems because we're doing two things on one piece of property.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And so I'm trying to get these young men who we've been introduced to, and we're, you know, it's not just about duck hunting versus deer hunting.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

We're trying to turn them into Jesus men. Who are out there, you know, showing some courage. So, you know, duck blind is a better set setting because this was something I didn't say. But in the deer hunting world, you know, they whisper. They're like, oh, yeah, you know, it's kind of hard to have a conversation about Jesus when you're whispering. I'm more of a let's shout it to the world.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

How do y'all take into Christian? I mean, is he. Is he okay? Like he and the family.

[Jase Robertson]

Christian is one of the duck boys. He's come a long way since the beginning. He on the first day. I guess I can share this. I mean, look, at this point, I've hurt all their feelings, so it's not going to get any worse.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah, mine as well.

[Jase Robertson]

But we have a drill sergeant whose name is Jay. He's Al, my son in law. He organizes the duck boys. I don't actually do anything other than just when they show up, I'm like, you go here, you go there. Don't do this, do this. And then I give them a long sermon about Jesus and family. But on the first day, the drill sergeant, Jay, had a impromptu meeting after the hunt, and he didn't mention any names. But I just remembered that Christian spent a lot of time on his phone while we were hunting.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Oh, wow.

[Jase Robertson]

And he realized that that is a no go for future endeavors. It's like if we have to have a basket where you turn your phone in because it's like you're missing the best part of what this offers. And I have, I will admit he's come a long way since, like, get off.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Tick tock, Christian. I've been training that young man, trying to get him in shape. And so we're just about there, you.

[Jase Robertson]

Know, Just about there.

[Phil Robertson]

You've been very success. And if I'm not mistaken, I don't really know all of this, but I know now it's out publicly about the new the duck dynasty. What do they call revival, right? Is a lot about what we're talking about, from what I gather, because it's a lot about the next generation, which includes those ducks slash buck boys. So I think that's kind of the under current of the show. Zach, you may know more than me. A lot of people are asking about. That's the reason I want to bring it on the podcast, because a lot of people are asking, what's the show going to be about? But it's still, you know, our family, but it's definitely that next generation.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Round two.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, round two. Exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, Yeah, I actually talked to Willie about that last night. I actually talked to Willie last night for over an hour. So.

[Phil Robertson]

Whoa.

[Jase Robertson]

That just shows you. Even though we have the reputation of not getting along, deep down he loves me. And. Yeah, so now we had a good conversation, but I actually said that. I was like, can we? Because I've been everywhere I go, I've been seeing them around, you know, they're. It's an army of. Of cameramen and different things. And he's like, yeah, we're going to need you on some of this Duck Boy stuff. I heard that, y'all. It's like a military training operation. I was like, willie, deep down, you know, we're trying to turn them into young disciples for the Lord. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, but we'll need to do some of that stuff. So I guess at some point I.

[Phil Robertson]

Just want to think we're going to bring the grizzle back.

[Jase Robertson]

I don't mind. I mean, I think it's a noble thing. I mean, these, these, you know, you got to remember some young men are they, you know, they're in situations where they don't have older men talking to them about life. And, you know, the duck line is a perfect thing to do. And there's an element of danger, which I've always said the most profound things and exciting things you can do if there is an element of danger involved. And that's been our big major thing is safety. And because when you're in a duck line, you're all together and you all have weapons. Well, these guns in close proximity, I mean, they're more than dangerous. They will kill you. People have accidents every year. So the first day there was one of the Duck boys shot across the blind. Like, we're in a two way blind that there's like five men on one side and five on the other. And the N man who was a Duck boy shot across the blind.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Come on, Christian.

[Jase Robertson]

Exactly. I wasn't gonna say the name.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Unbelievable.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, we had that. We had to have JP on to name names.

[Zach Dasher]

JP's got an incredible ministry going. I've been keeping up with what you're doing on Instagram and you guys have been hitting these college campuses.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

It's been wild.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean, I want to hear about this because it looks like old school revivals, mass spontaneous baptisms, which is right up our alley on that. Yeah, Love to hear, like, what in the world is going on, man?

[Jonathan Pacluda]

It's the craziest thing. So I got it I got invited to this to speak at Auburn University and, and the event was in six weeks, which, you know, not, not trying to big time anybody. I just usually have more of a heads up than that. And it was like, can you do this in six weeks? I was like, no, I can't do it. I mean just it, there's a process that goes in front of the elders and all that. I was like, nah, can't do it in six weeks. And then a buddy of mine called and said, hey, this is my mother in law. You know her, her husband's the coach, assistant coach there at Auburn. And you know, would you do that? And I was like, all right, I'll do it. And so we get on a plane, go over there and I'm thinking I'm going to talk to 600 college students. That's just kind of what was in my head. And we got there and they filled the basketball arena and it was 6,000 college students. And I gave it. She wanted this real specific message on sexual sin. It's a really hard message and it's not a, it's not a feel good message. And just, I mean It's 1st Thessalonians 4 kind of ends with God is the avenger of such things. And so I'm like, you know, teaching that and working in grace and, and, and then Jenny went up after me. Jenny Allen. And so this woman, her name is Tanya Pruitt. And she had just been praying like prayer walking this campus, just praying for revival, praying that the Holy Spirit would, would just do a work. And she just was so burdened by some of the stories she was hearing from these college students about their addiction and just being enslaved to sin. And so we, you know, at the end of the night we did an altar call and this one college girl texted in and said, hey, I've never been baptized. And Jenny's on stage just, it's so organic. She's just having a conversation with the crowd is like, hey, is there water nearby? And they're like the red barn. And she's like, all right, there's, well, we're going to the red barn. And then we just all, we thought it was like across the street, but it was a half a mile away. And so we all just, thousands of us walked out to the red barn and we started doing baptisms and 350 college students got baptized that night. And, and some of those were like 20 minute conversation. It wasn't just lineup and dunk. It was like, man, let me make sure you Understand? Jesus died for your sins. God raised him from the dead. Just really clarifying the gospel. And so we were out till about 2am I mean, we came back after midnight and, and, and just kind of talked through everything and, and it was amazing. And like, if that was it, it was like that was one of the most fun nights I've ever had in my life. And we thought it was over. Well, then Alabama called and then Tennessee and then Georgia and. And so we just started doing this SEC tour and that has turned into, you know, we've got done 11 campuses and they've all been kind of the same. I mean, different. But thousands come, thousands trust in Jesus, hundreds get baptized. Happens at every campus we've been to. And so it's been, it's. It's really changed my life because I, you know, I pastor a church full and so, you know, have a staff and all that. And it really has changed my life and my job description and everything, trying to figure it out.

[Zach Dasher]

So I've been using Rocket Money guys for, I guess, the past couple months. And every time there's a abnormal charge on any of my credit cards or anything, it pops up on my phone, which is nice because I've caught Jill spending some pretty big purchases lately.

[Phil Robertson]

I didn't know about this, but Lisa's the one that went and checked it out. But it was my grandkids that were spending the money. Either way, we had to figure out where it was coming from, and Rocket Money helped us find it.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, it's awesome. I went and put all my stuff in there and it actually showed me I had like, I don't know how many subscriptions that I was subscribing to that I didn't know I had. And some of them I had certain services that I had subscribed to three times the same exact, like, service. I was like, what am I doing? So they, they can go in and cancel that for you. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions. It monitors your spending, and it helps you lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. That's what we're using it for. Rocket Money Dashboard. It gives me a clear view of all of my expenses across all of my accounts. And I can create a personalized budget to help keep my spending on track and get alerts if bills increase or prices increase or if there's unusual spending activity, as I just mentioned. Plus, the new goals feature automatically saves money for you. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you if you let them, they automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save. And then you can ask them to negotiate them for you. And they'll deal with the customer service so you don't have to. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in cancel subscriptions. That's half a billion saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's premium features. I can tell you that's worked for me, and I'm saving a lot of money by using this feature. I love this service. I've been using it here the last couple months. It's been really good for our budgeting tool. If you' me you want to cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster, go with Rocket Money. You can go to rocket money.comunashamed today. That's rocket money.comunashamed. rocket money.comunashamed. have y'all kept it to God's chosen conference, the SEC? Have you gone out to the nations?

[Jonathan Pacluda]

We. We're. We're going to the nations. Like now we're. We're reaching. We're now we're reaching the lost.

[Jase Robertson]

There we go.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

It's true outreach.

[Jase Robertson]

Now.

[Phil Robertson]

Did you start out JP in. In campus ministry?

[Jonathan Pacluda]

No. Young adult. So I was. I was a. I was raised Catholic and didn't go to church in college. You know, they say drug, sex, and rock and roll. It's kind of drug, sex and hip hop in my case. And yeah, I was at a club 22 years ago, and someone invited me to church, and I sat in the back row, hungover, smelled like smoke from the night before, and started wrestling with what do I really believe about God? Because I've always said I was a Christian, but I was like, you know, what are the odds I'll be born to the right country? And if I was born in India, I'd be Hindu. If I was born in China, I'd be Buddhist. If I was born in Israel, I'd be Jewish, you know, and I just started wrestling with this. And so I started looking at world religions. The Hindu faith, the Buddhist faith, the Jewish faith, Islamic faith, Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Church of Christian Science, Scientology. And I kept tripping over Jesus in history that somehow 20, 25 years ago, this carpenter born in Bethlehem reset the calendar. And, you know, Bethlehem is a little bitty, tiny town, smaller than West Monroe, that no one would have heard of except for Jesus was born there. And Nazareth is a city that we wouldn't know the name of, except for Jesus lived there. So how did this guy become the single most polarizing character in the history of history? And I realized, you know, in studying that that it's because he, he died and showed back up three days later. And Paul says over 500 people saw him. And I, you know, I'm a porn addict at the time, sex addict, drug user, you know, and, and not like. And I've got my, you would have thought I had my act together, you know, because I was trying to be a millionaire before I was 30. Was chasing the dollar. It's kind of everything wrong with Dallas in a person. And, and I just realized like, this guy paid for my sins and if he paid for my sins, then I don't have to pay for my sins, you know, And I don't, you know, there's, I got, there's a lot of sins and I don't want to pay for them. Him. And so he paid for him. Then, man, I'm just going to go all in with him. And then as I went all in with him, I thought, you know, if this stuff is true and people can live forever, like we're all going to die and we're going to be somewhere forever. I'm going to tell everybody. I've got to tell the whole world about this. And so then went into ministry five years later and really was setting out chairs. Not. No one was giving me a microphone, like, hey, come speak. You know, they were like, we don't trust him. We're not even sure he's saved. You can, you can put chairs in a circle.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

And so I did that for a little while and did some announcements. And then one son, one Tuesday actually they were like, why don't you teach? It was a young adult ministry and it grew to be the, the biggest in the country. And, and it's still rocking and rolling there. But then we, and then I became the pastor of that church that I just talked about that I stumbled into hungover. And then six years ago we moved to Waco.

[Phil Robertson]

Wow, that's amazing. It reminds me a lot Jays, when he was saying that when Jason and I were interns right out of seminary, which I went into full time. Jason ever did. But I would say our internship, Jays, the two things that we excelled at were chairs, how to set up chairs in different configurations and also moving people. We became, we could have started our own moving company just out of our experiences for the church. But.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, what's weird is we both technically went into full time ministry. I just didn't get paid for it.

[Phil Robertson]

And I just barely got paid for.

[Jase Robertson]

It, which was okay with me because, I mean, I had a similar experience. Experience. Because, you know, you told that story and what stood out to me, which is because I. I realize I've. I beat to a different drum beat, but is some guy invited you to church at the club and. Yeah, because that was kind of my role when I first got married. And you think, well, what does that. What. What does that have to do with being married? But I had shared Jesus with so many of my friends and people. I just, like, like, gone public for Jesus.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

But nobody was responding because it was kind of the same experience you had. They're like, I mean, you're just some wilderness guy. What do you. What do you know? And. But the first guy that responded was actually one of my best friends from high school that. I mean, it took him about three years to respond, but he did when I. Because I asked him to be a groomsman and my. I asked him to be my best man at my wedding. And he was like, well, what happened to this? You know, you shared Jesus? Because once I shared Jesus with him, we basically went two different directions. He was like, no, I've got all these things I want to do. And it was pretty much the list you gave. But once he responded, it just started this firestorm of people coming. His friend got his friend, his friend got, you know, and then his sister responded. And it literally. Our first year of marriage, which was kind of terrible from a marriage standpoint because I just was going so many places, even a couple of bars, I didn't go in them, but I was outside of them, you know, inviting people, you know, to come be a part of us. I mean, I just went crazy. I was young, and we. I realized then that whatever I do, I'm gonna have to do it with my wife because she wanted to do that. That. And Al mentioned your bio when it. The way you described your wife. And I thought it was really profound.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, it was. It was. It was actually the dedication in your. Your latest book, which I want to talk about some call your story has a villain. And it struck me, jp because me being a pastor for many years, and to be quite honest, struggled mightily in my early years being more passionate about the bride of Christ than my own bride.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Sure.

[Phil Robertson]

And my kids and kind of left them behind. But you said my wife Monica is a partner in ministry. And together it says in the dedication they discipline their three children. Then you list your children's Names. And I just, that struck me right off the bat as being a guy who's been in full time ministry a long time. That one is you. Your wife is right there with you in the ministry. But also your first job is to disciple your kids before you ever do anything about the kingdom. Kingdom.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

But yeah, man, she's. She's incredible. And she's. I mean you guys would love her, man. She's your people 100. And she's, she's from a small town around here. And so am I. Born and raised in a small town, South Texas. And she, she is, she just loves the fan. Like I, I'm. I love adventure and go and do. And I'm an extrovert. And she, like, her dream date night is just like a game night on the kitchen floor. And I'm, you know, I want to go, I'll get the limo and roses and write a song and all of that's just lost on her. She's like, no, no, I don't want any of that. Like, let's. I'm just gonna make, I'll make dinner here and we'll just stay here and why don't we play? Play, you know, go fish with the kids. And it's like, that's her, that's her dream evening. So she's. She's awesome and I couldn't do any of this without her. And in fact we've like, where we have to be careful now is I want to make sure she misses me when I'm gone, you know, because it's like I'm going away, I'm doing these, these things. I. Hey, babe, I'm coming back now, okay? Don't you make sure you don't change the locks on me. But yeah, it's been sweet.

[Zach Dasher]

Your book on spiritual warfare, which by the way, I think we probably get more questions about this topic than almost anything else that we talk about, which is kind of interesting because you mentioned in the book, you know about a lot of people don't even believe in the devil. They don't even believe in the spiritual realm, even in the church.

[Jase Robertson]

Why don't we just give some pure talk about what pure talk is?

[Phil Robertson]

Because the name implies pure talk. All right?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, These guys are amazing. That's the first time I've ever gone after a sponsor and said, hey, because I'd already switched. I switched to pure Talk because we had a little thing called a hurricane. All the cell phone coverage shut down. I moved coverages. These guys at Pure Talk, they've got the Same most dependable 5G network, same as a big guy. Same towers, but only half the cost. You get unlimited talk, Jason, unlimited text, five gigs of data for only 25 bucks a month. So the average family will save over a thousand dollars a year on their cell phone bill. It's why I switch. You can keep your phone number, you can keep your phone, or you can choose on the latest iPhones and androids. I actually picked a new phone up, got the iPhone. Switching is very easy. I know because I did it. I'm now a proud Pure Talk customer. I love this company too, because they are supportive of veterans. The CEO is a veteran who served a couple of tours in theater. They're really a wireless company that believes in creating American jobs. That's why their customer service department is in Covington, Georgia. So here's what you need to do. You need to go to PureTalk.com Unashamed and you guys will be able to save 50% off your first month. Make the switch today at PureTalk.com Unashamed AND join America's wireless company, PureTalk. I was curious with you coming out of kind of this revival ministry, did that play into kind of this, you wanting to dive into the spiritual realm?

[Jonathan Pacluda]

No, it was, it was in the works. And I think the Lord went before me because I got into this because I wanted to learn about it because I was, you know, Catholic background and then I got saved in a non denominational church. And we never really talked about angels and demons. And yes, like, you have an enemy. Like you're just, you know, Satan this, Satan that. But I just, here was the deal. It was like this story. Somebody's like, hey, they, they got up, they got dressed, they're going to go to church for the first time in a while. Sunday morning, they plan to go, they're all in. And they got in their car and they turned the key and it goes, you know, the battery's dead. And they're like, oh man, spiritual warfare. Well, I'm like, what in the world did a demon do? Like, did it have to pop the hood? Did it, did it leave the light on? Leave the door open? Like, what? How many demons does it to run a car battery? And then when you take your car in and they're like, oh, is your alternator? Like, was that a plan for the past six months? Like, were they wearing down a wire? Like, what in the world can they do? And, and I realized, like, there's a whole lot of Christians out there completely okay with not knowing and just kind of as you heard my story, you realize, like, I'm just. I'm kind of like doubting Thomas, you know, it's like I. I'm not. Okay. I want to know everything I can know. Like, I understand there's a mystery aspect of God and I respect and honor that. That. But if. If it's available to know, I'd like to know. And so as I started just researching, the Bible has more to say about spiritual warfare than it does about marriage. Well, you know, we're happy to teach about marriage and, you know, give the tips and tricks in Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 and 1st Peter 3. But. But there's this other thing of angels and demons, this war happening around us, and I'm just trying to figure out what happened to the car battery, you know, and so that's really how this, this book was born. And that was before the Unite stuff happened. And I would just say, man, you got to be careful if you want to write a book on spiritual warfare, because, I mean, the enemy just came out full force after I signed the contract for this one, but so did God. I mean, there were just blessings all over the place also. Unite being one of them.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, I just interacted recently with Michael Heiser's book the Realm. And, and it was just eye opening to think about the co. There is a cosmic battle and it talks about this Deuteronomy 32 worldview that I think it's a little scary for us to dive into that to think about. No, there's like an organized effort on both the side of Yahweh and on the side of this evil demonic realm that's warring over the souls of human beings. I mean, that's a scary thought. But it's comforting too, as you just mentioned, that God shows up even more so and the Bible says we're. Sin increases, grace abounds all the more. And I just think, man, how amazing is our God that we can rest in that.

[Phil Robertson]

But it's even to. Even to that rise point because, you know, you. You mentioned, and I had no idea, jp that you were even a part. I had read about and seen some things about the Auburn deal because it had gone on for a while. And it's interesting because I first became aware of it out of negative. In other words, the coach had been involved. And so these people from D.C. had come in and said, you can't. You can't be involved in these. And immediately there was this, like, people want to shut this down and attack. And so I Immediately thought, oh, man, look at this. Somebody has had an organic situation where people have come to Christ in a college setting where we're always complaining about college kids and how they party and they do this, they do that, they destroy their future. And now we have this good thing happen. And all I'm seeing about it is this negative attack, you know, on the badness of it. So it. It really just highlights. And I had no idea about the other campuses. So it kind of illustrates exactly what you talk about in the book.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Heiser's. You mentioned him. He's another level this book is kind of for. Like, if you picked up Michael Heiser's book and then you set it back down because you're like, okay, he's. That's. That's the deep waters. This is kind of a layman's guide to spiritual warfare. And so it's. Yeah. And it really was a learning, a three year learning journey for me of reading guys like him and others.

[Jase Robertson]

That's what I liked about it, though. You know, we. We were kind of. The first time, I think it's called Seeing the Unseen came out from Joe Beam. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yes, sir.

[Jase Robertson]

Boy, it was like. Some of that I'd have to put down thinking, I don't know about that. You know, it just took a real technical dive, which. I love the book, but I thought, you know, you had an interesting quote, which is a famous quote by C.S. lewis in your book, that most people, let's face it, either detach, I think you had an ad, or some poll that had come out that you mentioned. You can give the details on it, because I can't remember, but I think it was like 50, only 56% of. Of, you know, Jesus believing people believed in this spiritual warfare aspect in some capacity. And so you have the CS Lewis quote where either people are just like, it's not real, or they're on the other end, they take way too much interest in it, and which is the darkness in which they sometimes become, you know, overcome by. And I thought that was interesting because, you know, at the end of the day, Jesus is the ultimate victory of this spiritual war. I mean, that's why he's so appealing in your speech that you gave. You're like, you know, he came down here to destroy the devil's work.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

So I was just, I guess, curious about that. On how we need, you know, to make this more of a conversation where it's not so awkward. Awkward for people yeah.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

CS Lewis says there's two mistakes we make about the devils. One is, you know, being. Believing that they don't exist. The other is, you know, believing that they are involved in everything that we do. I think there's a third mistake which is believing that they exist and not caring like that belief, like just this idea that there's a, there's a devil and he may be devils, as C.S. lewis says, and that just having no implications for our lives. And the, the reality is the spiritual is the eternal. And so the world is temporary. Like the, the world as we know it at least is temporary. The things that we love in the world is temporary. And so I think that's the battle is, is Satan is trying to keep us from having an intimate relationship, a deep closeness with God. That's what he started in the, in the garden in Genesis chapter three. And that's still what he's, that is still what he's doing today is he's trying to prevent us from having a close relationship with God. So when somebody's listening right now or watching, says, you know, when I go to pray, I'm just so distracted. All these thoughts come into my mind with spiritual warfare. When I, when I read the Bible, it just doesn't always make sense. You know, the words, I'm like, oh man, I don't really know what I'm reading. My mind wonders that spirit's word. He does not want you growing that relationship with God. What you see in the garden is Adam and Eve. They, they were able to commune with God and talk with them. And he talked back and they heard him. There was a relationship there. And then the serpent comes in between there and says, hey, God's trying to keep something from you. You know, if, if you, you eat from this, you're going to be like him. And, and, and ultimately when God comes up and he, and he says, adam, where are you? Well, God knows where Adam is. He's omnipotent. He. He knows everything. He knows Adam's mind. But when he says, where are you? It's not so much disappointment as much as it is distance. And then when we sin, we feel far from God. And so that's, that's the feeling that we have whenever we sin. And so what's the solution? Again, spiritual warfare. It's confession. It's repentance. It's like, hey, I'm going to turn from this. I'm going to make it really difficult for me to continue in this sin. And so there's people watching and listening Right now, you know, there's some stuff that owns you. You know, there's some things that you. You keep going back to, like a dog to his vomit. And, and we've got to say, all right, this is the enemy. He's trying to lure me away and hinder me. Because 2 Corinthians, chapter 4, verse 4 says. Says that Satan is the God of this world. The lowercase G God of this world. But First John, chapter 4, verse 4 says, Greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world. And so I have everything that I need for victory. Satan's not afraid of me, but he's terrified of my God. He's terrified of my Jesus. So the, the solution is for me to remain close to Jesus and to foster my relationship with God and grow that relationship with God. And that's ultimately what's going to protect me from the enemy.

[Zach Dasher]

So here's a question for you. What is the gospel? The way you answer that question has a lot of significance in how you live your life out. And we would argue, based on the teaching of Jesus in the Book of Mark, that that definition of the gospel should not be separate from the coming of the kingdom based on Jesus's words in Mark. We're talking about this on my new podcast called Not Yet Now. Would love to invite you guys to join. We're going to go through the series this on the Book of Mark. We launch every Tuesday and would love to have you guys be a part of it. So go check us out. Not yet now podcast with Zach Dasher. You can find us anywhere podcasts are heard. The title again is Not yet now with Zach Dasher. Or you can check us out on YouTube as well. @ Dasher Zach z a c h the at Dasher Zach. Hope to see you guys there. How much more effective is evil is the evil one.

[Phil Robertson]

And.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

And the.

[Zach Dasher]

The devils, if we don't even believe that they're there trying to deceive us. But we get into the deceit that Adam and Eve were in, which is like what you. I love that you mentioned that out of Genesis that they. They ran and hid from God. I mean, that's. That is. That is what sin does, is it causes us to withdraw and to hide and to not be known. And, And I think about all my own anxieties in life and depressions and fears and just issues that have come up from this. This fear of being known and what if I'm exposed? And then on the other side of that, because this is a spiritual Warfare that you have the Holy Spirit, you know, who is, who is guiding us into all truth and wants us to come out and to be known and to be seen by God and to be covered by him as. As God did in the garden. He slaughtered the animal, you know, and made it a suitable covering for them. I think that's so, so important. What, I mean, what has been your reception with this with as. Because I guess the book just came out.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah, it just came out.

[Zach Dasher]

It' been out not that long. But I'm sure you've shared advanced reader copies like you did with us and maybe with some young people. What, what's been the reception as people.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Have man, it's been.

[Zach Dasher]

Interact with it.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

It's been really fun. I mean probably the most significant work I've been a part of. This is my sixth book, but it debuted, you know, top 50 on Amazon on all the books, which is, you know, milestone for me at least. And, and then people, you know, I got an email or a text message rather this morning, just said I started reading it last night. He goes thanks a lot. I'm so tired today. I couldn't put it down till 3am And I think it's because you know, John 10:10 says the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. But I've come to, to have to, to give life that they might, I've come for life so they might have it abundantly. And you know, we, there's a longing in all of our hearts for the abundant life that Jesus offers. And it's, you know, I think that there's just people out there that think there's a bunch of church folks playing games and pretending to talk to this invisible deity and just going and feeling good and hey, that's good. That works for you. You sing your feel good songs. It's like no man. There's a creator of the heavens and the earth and you're going to face him, you're going to be with him forever or you're going to be somewhere forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. And he wants to get his children back. And like yeah, he, he lost his children to sin and death and disease, but he's man. He's gone to great lengths to get us back and allowing his, his one and only son Jesus to die for our sins and raise him from the dead. And I'm and, and like, yeah, there's an aspect of the spiritual war that's scary. You know, I, I mean I had in the book, I tell this crazy story of being in a country club. And this, this guy just going wild on me, you know, and, and, and I had never seen anything like that. I'd been in the Amazon jungle three times. I've been to Africa multiple times. I've been to Haiti six times. And I had never seen what was happening in this country club with this guy. And so I just think Satan's going to show up more and more. He's showing his hands. As we're seeing revivals, as we're seeing college campuses and college students come into a relationship with Jesus, as we're seeing revivals in prison, I don't think the enemy's too happy about it. If we can get somebody to believe in the devil, you know, then they're going to believe in God. And so I think he, he does his best work in hiding. It says that he masquerades like an angel of light. He's a deceiver. He hides. He tries to stay in the shadows and tries to just convince us that he's this spooky guy, but he's a fallen angel. And they're outnumbered two to one. You know, there's more heavenly angels than there are demonic demons.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, and I like the way that you really. And you said it earlier, you called it a layman's guide. The practicality of your book, JP was so good and refreshing to me because this is obviously a set subject you can get into and it almost feels out of reach to understand.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

You mentioned John 10. You used the term pattern recognition. Just. And I really related to that as a pastor, because you were saying over the course of a couple of decades, you don't really have to look far to see the influence of evil. You can see it in people's patterns and the lifestyle destruction that it causes in their lives. And so I think anybody can relate to, to that.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah, man, that's true.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, I think it's helpful too. As you mentioned earlier, I think it's very, very helpful. Anyway, the discussion of what we're having here, if there is a cosmic battle, if there is a spiritual realm and there is spiritual warfare, like, what is the war about? Like, because if we don't know what the war is about, then it's almost impossible. I mean, think about if, if we go to war as a country with somebody, we have no clue what we're fighting over. What do we. What's the win? What's the goal? What's the point? So I think what you said about earlier about God's presence, you know, that is what the end of all this is. And I think it speaks to the soul of humanity. Like, anybody listening to this podcast, whether you're 15 or 75 years old, you have a longing to be connected. You have a longing to be in unity with your creator. Like, we all long for that type of presence in our life. And. And it really is kind of this idea of intimacy that I think is seen in the Godhead of Father, Son, Holy Spirit, living eternally together. It's just complete unity. And I think that's what the war is about, is that the devil wants to divide, he wants to destroy, he wants to separate, he wants to isolate. And you see that playing out in cultural battles. You see in the end result, I always use as a litmus test, how do I know if it's evil? What does it lead to? Isolation, separation, loneliness, and despair. If it does, I'm like, that's probably not from God.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

God, man. That'll preach. That'll preach. Yeah. No, he definitely. I think, you know, Christianity is a communal religion. It's a communal faith. It's, you know, and the greatest commandment is to love God and love people. Love Lord, your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. And right now, it's so popular not to. It's like, oh, I don't like people. Like, I don't want to be. And it's like, well, then you're not going to like Christianity. And I. I even think this appeals. This is part of the appeal of. Of Doug Dynasty and your family and just you guys doing life together and people watching from. And they're. They long for that. I mean, there's. There's people at home. They. They don't even. They've lived in the Same House for 27 years, and they don't know their neighbor's name. Like, they don't know the guy right next door to them. They don't know their name, you know, and. And much less have their phone number or any way to get in contact with them. And so when you start seeing people do life on life, well, that's because we were made for that. Like, Christianity is a team sport. We weren't made to go at this alone. And we. We've got to do life together. And yes, the enemy is cons. He's like a lion, lion in the. In the jungle that wants to isolate the gazelle. You know, he's trying. He know he can't. He can't fight the whole herd of water buffalo, but he can. He can get the one by itself and, and they can, you know, maybe take it down. But he can't fight the herd. And he's constantly trying to isolate somebody, to vaping, to cutting, to depression, despair, to suicide, you know, to anxiety, that that's his offense. And if, you know that it's art of war kind of stuff, it's like, wait, if I, if I lean deeper into God's people and I have them, James 5:16, you know, I confess stuff to him and have them pray for me and I'm going to experience healing. And that's my story. And it's not just my story. I see it over and over and over again. So to your pattern recognition comment, it's like, yeah, it's like, here's the deal. You, you there.

[Jase Robertson]

You.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

There are things that you do where you fall into a pit and there are things that you do where you find life and you do the things that you fall into a pit. You fall into a pit and you go deeper in the pit and it doesn't work well for anybod. And you do the things that lead to life and you find life and you get laughter and joy. And you know, it's just like sometimes life is that simple. And I understand there's exceptions to that. I really do. I get that. But. But in the grand scheme of things, the 30,000ft view is just like man, walk in righteousness and do what God asks us to do, do the right thing no matter how difficult it is, and seek to know your creator and man. It's it, for the most part. It's going to go well for you.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, it's a, it's a fantastic book. Your story has a villain. It's broken down simply and yet you know such a, such a valuable type of who the villain is, what the villain does, how to fight back. We love it. We recommend it. Wherever you buy books, go check it out, grab you a copy. It's going to make your life better. JP thanks for coming on the Unashamed podcast. You're welcome anytime to come and talk about anything you got going going on.

[Jonathan Pacluda]

Grateful for you men, grateful for your families. Blessings to you.

[Phil Robertson]

Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.