← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1043 | Jase & Phil Get Lost in the Fog & Why Humans Are Afraid of the Dark
00:58:25
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- [00:02]
Jase Robertson
I am unashamed. What about you?
- [00:06]
Phil Robertson
Welcome back to Unashamed Chase. We were last podcast, we've been diving into these first disciples who were called. And you had a point about light. Because I was talking about this idea of enlightenment, like that Paul was enlightened on the road to Damascus. There seemed to be this idea that this come and see is like somehow there has to be an illumination to. I don't know if it's the mind, the heart, what it is that gets illuminated.
- [00:38]
Jase Robertson
It's like, just spend some time with me, Jesus says, and you'll follow me. It's like the light switch comes on.
- [00:47]
Phil Robertson
That's it.
- [00:48]
Jase Robertson
And he uses this illustration multiple times. When he talks about being blind and seeing the story, I always think about. I know I've shared it before, but because, you know, our dad, he was in the duck hunting world. He was real big about if somebody ever, usually outside of our family, would say, come to this duck hole and, you know, we'll get them. Well, if we didn't get them, my dad, he was like, never follow that human being ever again. And. And you remember, we got into that category. He had a couple of strikeouts, you know, come up here. And I would. I then learned, after a while, I was like, if you get this wrong, you. You will be excluded from any future venture ever.
- [01:44]
Phil Robertson
Especially the first time. You can have a strikeout later. But not to start with.
- [01:48]
Jase Robertson
So in a famous story that happened is one year, the river was up. It was up so high during duck season that we were having to get in an outboard motor and go to our duck hole from the river. We usually drive, but you could. All the roads were under water.
- [02:06]
Phil Robertson
Yep.
- [02:07]
Jase Robertson
And so we were having to track 20 minutes in an outboard. And so we would leave from the foot of Phil's house. But one morning, it was so foggy that he was like, now look, follow me. Like, you know, I know how to get there. Because you couldn't use your light. You're just basically going by.
- [02:28]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [02:28]
Jase Robertson
Feel. But what happened was, as soon as. Because we had two boats, as soon as I backed out, what it just. Everything disappeared. And I didn't realize the current was so strong in the river that it flipped my boat around. So I take off while I'm looking around for Phil, I see. No, I mean, it's so foggy, you cannot see your hand in front of your face. And we're going down river.
- [02:54]
Phil Robertson
I didn't realize it the wrong way.
- [02:55]
Jase Robertson
I thought I was going upriver.
- [02:57]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [02:58]
Jase Robertson
And somebody said, how Come. The currents go in the opposite way. And I said, this is crazy. Something. We have a supernatural current. Because my first instinct was, I know I'm.
- [03:12]
Phil Robertson
A river is flowing north because I.
- [03:15]
Jase Robertson
Was using the bank. Bank.
- [03:16]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [03:17]
Jase Robertson
As my basis. I'm looking at the bank.
- [03:19]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [03:20]
Jase Robertson
And I'm going due south, but it's.
- [03:24]
Phil Robertson
You should have been left.
- [03:26]
Jase Robertson
I thought I was going due north, but the bank on my left. I was going due south.
- [03:32]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [03:33]
Jase Robertson
The bank of my left. But now the current is going the opposite direction. And it took me maybe a minute to realize I'm going the wrong way. And so then I remember Phil's words, which was impossible because I couldn't see. So I turn around, and now we take off, and we're so far behind, I've been going the wrong way for 10 minutes. So what's funny about the story is an hour later, which is supposed to take 20 minutes, but it's so foggy, I'm just navigating, and I see a light in the fog, and it's almost getting daylight, but I see a light, and I'm like, that light is in a place where whatever that is doesn't make sense. Because I knew where I was in my mind. And so I see the light moving, and it hit me. I thought, that's Phil's boat. They're lost. Because I know where I'm at now. And they're in a field. They're off the creek. They're off the river.
- [04:39]
Phil Robertson
They're just in a flooded field.
- [04:40]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. So I went to the light, which. That I could see. And I turned my motor off. They turned their motor off, and Phil said, where are we at? I was like, you're lost, but. So it makes me feel better about not following you. I was like. Because I went the wrong way down the river.
- [05:00]
Phil Robertson
Everybody was lost.
- [05:01]
Zach Dasher
The blind was leading the lost. Or was the lost leading the blind?
- [05:04]
Jase Robertson
Which was the blind was leading the blind. Because we couldn't see. But. So we both got forgiveness of that because the conditions were too rough. But in the context of what we talked about on the last podcast, which I do think these are principles that can shape your faith in that who was actually looking for who. And you realize that since Jesus is the son of God, him looking for us is more important. And I think you see this in a lot of verses that doesn't seem to make sense. You know, one of them is in First John 4, where it says, this is love. Not that we love God, but that he loved us. Yeah. He first loved Us. Why is he saying that? John 15, where he says, look, you didn't choose me. I chose you. And I think that is an authority thing. I mean, because if you leave us to find our own way, we're out there. Give my illustration, some legs going around in circles, thinking.
- [06:11]
Phil Robertson
Which is really how we began the book, right? John 1:1:4. In him was light. That light was the life of men. And then we went back to Genesis 1, let there be light. The idea that this constant, you know, we would. I guess now in our vernacular, we would say the Northern Star. From a physical standpoint, we look up, it's always in that. So you can always know that's in a northerly direction. But he's that for the compass, for everything else. Like, he is that constant light.
- [06:40]
Jase Robertson
So not only does he save us, I mean, we got that down. It was his grace, his mercy, his power. But then what we've been talking about is what we do. I mean, he called these disciples to be his witnesses. You know, in Acts 1, it calls it the Apostolic Ministry. Because, remember Judas. Because there's. What's fascinating about this, which. The reason I think it's more about vocation, what we're reading is because he chose 12 people. And John 6 talks about this. Well, one of them he chose was Judas. Well, why did he choose him? I mean, that's why I'm saying there's more to it than just. Than just getting in Jesus. Which is. Yes, that is the most important thing. Because if you're not in Jesus, you'll wind up, you know, in a field with your. Your insides splattered out, which. What happened to Judas?
- [07:34]
Phil Robertson
Yeah, excellent.
- [07:35]
Jase Robertson
He wasn't a team player, but I think it makes more sense.
- [07:38]
Phil Robertson
And you see the little markers along the way. The few times we read about Judas, he was always a struggle, but on the struggle bus about greed and, you know, like, remember, he didn't want to spend the money giving it to this person and all this. But you get to the Lord's supper the night before everything happened, at the Passover feast, before it says Satan entered him. So it's like almost up until that whole time, he had a chance to turn it around.
- [08:06]
Jase Robertson
And I believe that.
- [08:07]
Phil Robertson
I do, too.
- [08:07]
Jase Robertson
So when you talk about lost and found, well, he found Judas, and guess what? He didn't want to be found, but because he had his own agenda. And there's always gonna be that struggle with human beings, which is why I.
- [08:21]
Phil Robertson
Think he chose him. I mean, a lot of people say, oh, no, it's Just because, you know, someone had to betray him. But I don't believe that. I believe that's why he chose him, was to show all of us by example, even a part of the inner posse of Jesus. The original 12 if you don't seek him, you won't find him. You won't find him even if you're in his midst.
- [08:42]
Jase Robertson
Which I go back to that John 1:12, when he said, yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God. Judas had the right to become a child.
- [08:55]
Phil Robertson
Absolutely.
- [08:55]
Jase Robertson
Jesus loved him, Jesus accepted him.
- [08:58]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. He watched his feet.
- [09:00]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [09:01]
Phil Robertson
You know, with the rest of them right there in Luke, in Luke 13 or wherever.
- [09:04]
Jase Robertson
So I'm making the point though. I believe Judas's problem was that he didn't like what he was called to do and be. He didn't. He. He was thinking more, yeah, let's take the money, let's take over the world. It was. I think he was purely looking at a normal operating kingdom and wasn't looking at the qualities that Jesus was representing in his kingdom. And just to kind of prove that this is. I thought this was interesting in Luke 11, where Jesus makes this analogy in which what happens when you read any scripture? Then I started reading what happened before and you know, I got a couple points I want to make. But speaking of this light and come and see, look what he says in 1133. He says, no one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden or under a bowl. Instead, he puts it on its stand so that those who come in may see the light. Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are good, your whole body is full of light. But when they are bad, your body is also is full of darkness. Your body also is full of darkness. See to it then that the light within you is not darkness. Is a very good line. See to it that the light within you is not darkness. Which I think Judas would be a great example of that. Therefore, if your whole body is full of light and no part of its dark, it will be completely light lighted. As when the light of a lamp shines on you, which is then going. Going back to Jesus, which I thought that makes more sense. You know, when Hebrews 12, where it's like, let us fix our eyes on Jesus, you know. Well, how exactly do I do that? Well, it's that it's getting back to this come and see. And then that becomes contagious where you're telling other People, oh, come and see. Come and see the light. But you're not. You're never going to put it. Put a bowl over which, I mean, I'm just saying look at our church. Modern day churches today.
- [11:15]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [11:15]
Jase Robertson
It's like a bunch of buildings with bowls.
- [11:18]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [11:19]
Jase Robertson
So I don't get too excited. Don't get, don't take it out of the building.
- [11:22]
Phil Robertson
Keep it to your side here. J. Years, years ago, I guess we may have been preaching students or maybe we were interns. But you read the book, Justin's Book of Martyrs.
- [11:36]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [11:37]
Phil Robertson
And you were the first person that I knew that ever read it. And you told me about it and then I read it and it was one of the most inspirational things I'd ever read about the early apostles and disciples into the centuries, about how that they were persecuted and martyred.
- [11:54]
Jase Robertson
Well, yeah. And us, you know, living in America, we don't tend to think that's going on, but even today, it's more happening than at any other time in history.
- [12:04]
Phil Robertson
So that led me to the Voice of the Martyrs, which is an amazing organization that has been telling those stories. And Todd Nettleton, who is the Voice of the Martyrs radio host, he's traveled to all these restricted nations for over 20 years and met these courageous Christians. And he's written a book. I have it here in front of me if you're watching when faith is forbidden. 40 days on the front lines with persecuted Christians. And so he tells these amazing stories. And so it's kind of like. It's kind of like you're on this journey when you're reading and you're kind of going through with him into these different countries, these different stories.
- [12:44]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. Their ministry connects us with believers around the world, which is cool.
- [12:50]
Phil Robertson
And every time you get on this point of the journey, you're reflecting your own walk with Christ, which I think is what happens when we realize when we're inspired by other people. We want you to check it out. This is remarkable book, remarkable stories. And you can request a free copy of When Faith is Forbidden today. And here's how you do that. You can request your free copy When Faith Is forbidden by calling 844-463-4059. That's 844-463-59. Or you can visit vom.orgunashamed. that's vom.orgunashamed. check it out. You will be inspired by this book.
- [13:37]
Jase Robertson
Oh, welcome back, Zach. I didn't know you were back. I looked up, you were gone.
- [13:41]
Zach Dasher
Well, I've been Here the whole time.
- [13:42]
Jase Robertson
Oh, have you?
- [13:43]
Zach Dasher
Yeah, I commented. Remember I said the blind leading the lost.
- [13:46]
Jase Robertson
That's true. Okay, so look. So. But now look, I found something fascinating when I look back and to Luke 11, watch this interaction, because this is why I thought about Judas and we didn't read the John 6. Maybe we should, but we'll get to it eventually. Because he brings that up, you know, he says he knew from the beginning that even though he chose. He says it just like he says in John 15, you didn't choose me, I chose you. He says in the end of John six, he's like, I chose you. And then John gives a little parenthetical. He says even though he knew one of them would betray him from the beginning, he still chose him.
- [14:31]
Phil Robertson
That's right.
- [14:32]
Jase Robertson
It's fascinating. So in Luke 11, when he was driving out demons, in verse 14, watch how cool this is. It says Jesus was driving out a demon. That was muted when the demon left. The man who had been had been mute spoke, and the crowd was amazed. But some of them said, well, by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, he's driving out demons. Others tested him by asking him for a sign of heaven. So here you have two different responses. People have, they. They're coming and they're looking. And one of them is like, boy, this is amazing. But then the other is like, there's a demon. So they're coming and seeing Jesus in a different view. But watch what Jesus says. Jesus knew their thoughts and said, any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined and a house divided against itself will fall. If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub, which I think is interesting that Jesus introduces another kingdom. Yeah, that it's of the evil one, which is earthly, and of the devil. So then it says, watch what this says, verse 18 or verse 17. Jesus know the thoughts. Any king divided against himself. I read that. Verse 18. If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub. Now, if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your followers drive them out? So then they will be your judges. And here's the verse I was trying to get to. But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you. And to go back to this point about us saying, look, the kingdom is where the king is reigning. And he makes that statement which I think is pretty profound. If I'm driving out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom has come to you. So what do you make of that?
- [16:50]
Zach Dasher
Well, what was he doing? He was driving out demons by the hand of God. So that means that the kingdom had come upon them in that moment. It's one of the texts we use when we talk about the kingdom of God being here and now. And not just the future reality. It is the future reality as well. Well, it's the kingdom that's here now, but not yet fully realized. And so I think that's what he's talking about there. And he puts an urgency in what we do now because it matters, because stuff's going on now. Christ is reigning now. So when we talk about the finished work of Christ, that's not just about our justification, which it is about that as well. He did accomplish that on the cross, but. But it's also the fact that he is reigning now. Christ is king now.
- [17:36]
Jase Robertson
Yep. And I think you're right, Zach, because he goes on to say, verse 21, when a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe, but when someone stronger attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted and divides up the spoils. And he says, he who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And it's going to be the same thought that you even see with Peter when he named him the rock. Well, you know why he named him the rock? Because when, remember, when he says, who do you say I am? Matthew 16:18.
- [18:18]
Zach Dasher
Yeah.
- [18:19]
Jase Robertson
And Peter said, you're the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus is like, upon that rock, you're Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church. Well, then later in Peter's writings, I think it's first Peter two, Remember, when he brings up the rock, our cornerstone is Jesus. But then he says the same thing Jesus says here in Luke 11. He's like, well, some people are dashed on that rock and it's the same.
- [18:51]
Zach Dasher
That's super important, Jace, what you just said. Because that confession in Matthew 16, upon this rock, I'll build my church. Peter's not the rock that the church is built on. Because some people believe that, think he was the first pope and all that. That's not what he's saying there. What he's saying is, upon the confession, what Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, that's the rock Jesus. And so that's that same imagery that you get In Daniel of what comes down and crushes that statue of the kingdoms, the last being the Roman Empire. Well, it was a rock. A rock rolled down and smashed the whole thing. So you see this image of the rock throughout all the Old Testament prophecy and then coming to full fruition in Jesus. And that's why Paul is very explicit when he. When he references Christ as the cornerstone upon which. And by the way, we're living stones.
- [19:44]
Phil Robertson
Well, and the. And the Old Testament references is interesting because it calls it a cornerstone there, but it also calls it the stumbling stone, which is, to Jace's point, it's the same rock that becomes the cornerstone of everything we build off of. Was something to stumble over if you missed it. So again, it's that illumination I thought about when you describing that, Jase and Zach, you might speak to this because you dealt with it in the movie, the Torchbearer movie that you helped write. I thought about the Statue of Liberty, which is a gift from France, that sits in the. You know, in New York, when people come in past Ellis island, coming into New York, all those immigrants, the idea is they're going to pass by this Statue of Liberty and you remember, she's holding up this torch. And so the idea was, because we had a revolution about the same time that France had a revolution. Right, Zach? I mean, it was right in the same neighborhood. The difference between the two revolutions, and this is what the French never figured out, was that ours was based on godly principle. The idea of our country started with the idea about God and that religious freedom and liberty was a big anchor point.
- [20:56]
Zach Dasher
Yeah, I would say not just principle. It was. It was based on a particular truth of the gospel and the biblical text, that man is made in the image of God. So that the anchor was that the man. And it's. It's a. It's a very sophisticated but simple argument. If there is no God, then who determines what's right or wrong for us?
- [21:17]
Phil Robertson
Right. And I thought that that was the point of the movie, which was so strong. I just find it fascinating that the French would send us the beacon of true liberty and light based on the cornerstone, the idea of who God is 100 years after the revolution. But then even now, 150 years later, we seem to be forgetting that, you.
- [21:38]
Zach Dasher
Know what the original title for the film, which they changed it against my protest, the original title was not Torchbearer Image Bearer. It was Image Bearer.
- [21:50]
Phil Robertson
Yep.
- [21:50]
Jase Robertson
That would have been a better.
- [21:51]
Zach Dasher
Oh, wait, but I think torches.
- [21:54]
Jase Robertson
I mean, we are talking about carrying the torch but that's why I thought.
- [21:58]
Phil Robertson
About the point in what we're talking about today is this illumination idea. But it has to come back to that corner. It has to come back to who that is, or you can trip over it and you can lose it.
- [22:10]
Jase Robertson
Well, that's why I brought up the two kingdoms here is because even when Peter dipped his toe into the well, you're not going to die. I'm never going to let that happen. You remember what Jesus said to him? Well, get behind me, Satan.
- [22:22]
Zach Dasher
Yeah.
- [22:23]
Jase Robertson
All of a sudden you, You. You don't like my plan. Because he. Even in Luke 11, after he talked about that, you know, he who is not with me is against me. And. And then he goes into that illustration. When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through seeking rest and doesn't find it. And it says, I'll return to the house I left. When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean. Well, then he goes and gets seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in. So he's showing you this spiritual battle between the two kingdoms. And then they ask for signs, more miraculous signs to prove he is the one. He's like, I'm not going to give you any sign except the sign of Jonah. That's in 29 of Luke 11. Well, you remember what he's talking about there. I got to die.
- [23:12]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [23:13]
Jase Robertson
So that's why when Satan, when Peter stepped out of line, he's like, well, now Peter got back in line even though he was still full of struggles. And that's why I brought up Judas, because he just didn't like the way the king was operating and the way the kingdom was set up. And so you're like, well, where did he go? Well, there's only two possibilities. There's not all these, you know, different possibilities that we think there is, which I found fascinating. Which I said all that because Judas.
- [23:46]
Phil Robertson
Just picked a side, is all he did. He went back to the ones that were trying to kill him. And he was like, yeah, I'll. I'll, you know, be the rat. And. But he was choosing a side. And. And he did it for 30 pieces of silver, which he didn't even keep. He just went back and threw it in because he felt so guilty. So it just shows you. You choose a side and then you realize it's the wrong side. And then there's even no value.
- [24:10]
Jase Robertson
But it's what we all do. I know when we sin, I mean, you just think about it. You think, oh, I mean, most of it starts what, right around the teenage years or whatever, all of a sudden.
- [24:22]
Phil Robertson
This will be better.
- [24:23]
Jase Robertson
Like, you're kind of like Adam and Eve in the garden. You're like, I know what's right for my life. This is my life. I'm going to do whatever makes me happy. And I will now be the judge of right and wrong. And we choose wrong. And then you look up and then you face the consequences. And next thing you know, you're under the control of the kingdom of.
- [24:46]
Phil Robertson
Instead of feeling liberated, you feel guilty, ashamed, hiding. I mean, all this stuff that happened to the original well, and then that.
- [24:54]
Jase Robertson
World comes in and makes it worse, saying, well, you're no good, you're terrible, you can never come back. So it only gets worse. Or it's like you're king of the world and these earthly blessings come your way. And then all of a sudden you think you're going to do something with it.
- [25:14]
Zach Dasher
So I've started the PhD weight loss program with you, Al, and I am down officially. What are you down, Al?
- [25:19]
Phil Robertson
So I'm down about 22 pounds and I'm in almost six weeks into the diet. It's been amazing. We had Dr. Ashley Lucas, who's the founder of PhD, on the, on the program. She's amazing. She's a registered dietitian. She has a PhD in sports nutrition and chronic disease. She sends regular little emails, short videos to just kind of not only encourage you, but educate you, which is really good. Thousands of clients have had success. Now I'm one. Zach is going to be one as well. The program teaches you what to eat, when to eat, and to work on your relationship with food. So if you're watching this on YouTube, this was me at the start of my journey with PhD weight loss. I'm loving the experience so far. Far, I've lost about 22 pounds in about six weeks. And so there's no gimmicks, there's no pills, no injections, no side effects, which is another reason I love this. There's a person that you check in with every week and she's great as well. What I love about the MOSAC is I'm not hungry. Most diets have been on the past. I'm always hungry. This diet, I am not hungry. The food fills you up. They provide about 80% of your weekly foods at no extra cost. So join us on our weight journey. Schedule your one on one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900 or you can visit myphdweightloss.com that's 864-644-1900 tell them Al and Zach sent you.
- [26:51]
Zach Dasher
You get, you get into this, going back into this whole thing about vocation. What happens is, is that you start to separate all this out and you instead what we're trying to do is bring everything together into a cohesive head. But the idea I think really is very simple, that like, so what is the difference between a Judas and a Peter? Because that's a really good question. I think one, because there is, there's an under, there's something underneath even our faith, I think. And I think that Paul speaks to this in Romans 2 and he says he will render to each one according to his works. To those who by patience and well doing seek glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self seeking and who do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. So I think when you go back to that question that Jesus asked him, what do you seek? I think some people, if they were to be honest, they are saying, I'm going to seek to be self serving no matter what the truth says. That's the whole thing. When you mentioned accusing Jesus of working by the power of Beelzebub, man, think about what they're actually doing there. Because that's blasphemy, by the way, which is the unforgivable sin. Why is it unforgivable? Because if you're looking at Christ, who's performing the miracles that he was performing and he's casting out demons, he's doing all those amazing things and you're not convinced by that, but instead you're trying to find a way around him being the Christ. So you say, oh, you're doing that by the power of the devil. We can't deny your power. Power. So then what we're going to do is the only next move is to say you're doing it under another type of demonic power. That the reason why that's unforgivable is because it's ultimately the rejection of truth. It's to not obey the truth. And the reason why we don't obey the truth is because we're trying to preserve our own selves. We're self seeking and we don't care about righteousness. We're not obeying righteousness, we're obeying our own thirst. And God says, though, if that's your motivation, if that's what you're seeking, here's the end for you. Wrath and fury. But if you're the kind of person that says, no, I'm going to go wherever truth leads. I don't care where it leads. If truth leads me to abandon everything that I hold dear, I'm going to do it. Because I'm seeking immortality. I'm seeking justice, I'm seeking honor, I'm seeking glory. I want the good things of God. And even if you don't even know who God is, I truly believe that. I believe this verse. If you do this, I think God is going to open up a way for you to get to know his son, Jesus Christ, 100% of the time. Not one time has there been a person who will do this in Romans 2:6, that God is not going to bring his son Jesus to meet. He's going to. I think that's the difference between the two is those two type of things. Are you going to preserve yourself or are you going to submit yourself to the sovereignty of God and his will?
- [29:48]
Phil Robertson
Yeah, and that's one of the blessings of getting to know the rest of the story with Peter is we know that in spite of his weaknesses through the points of, you know, his three years with Jesus, obviously he became convicted to the point that, you know, he preached the first sermon to the Jews. He. He was there in the Cornelius for the first Gentile. I mean, like every first.
- [30:12]
Zach Dasher
Yeah, but you see, but, but you do see a persistence in Peter even think about this fact.
- [30:17]
Phil Robertson
He didn't give up.
- [30:18]
Zach Dasher
He didn't give up. And he, he, he denied Christ three times.
- [30:21]
Phil Robertson
Yep.
- [30:22]
Zach Dasher
But he came back then, even post resurrection, because you'd want to think that the resurrection solved everything. And man, once they saw that, you would want to think that Peter was good to go for from there to eternity. But he wasn't. Because Paul says in Galatians that Peter was basically indulging in racist activities. Right? He was, he was.
- [30:41]
Phil Robertson
He struggled with the Gentiles. Yeah.
- [30:44]
Jase Robertson
He really always a growth process, which is. I think everybody struggles with being an ambassador of Christ yet still having flaws.
- [30:54]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [30:54]
Zach Dasher
But do you remember what, do you remember though, what Paul said He did?
- [30:59]
Phil Robertson
He confronted him.
- [31:00]
Zach Dasher
He said, I rebuked him to his face. And like if, and think about that, that means that Peter, think about Peter's posture. He was a seeker. Because, because I don't take rebuke very well. You. If someone says, I rebuke Zach straight to his face, when I would be.
- [31:15]
Jase Robertson
Like, what that was, you take it well from me.
- [31:19]
Zach Dasher
That's true.
- [31:21]
Jase Robertson
Because you know I love you.
- [31:23]
Zach Dasher
I know you love me. And also it Comes in such strong waves that it's just. You can't. I mean, I've been bathed in your.
- [31:31]
Jase Robertson
Rebuke, so I think I figured something out. I think I figured something out. I was waiting for the right time to reveal this, but I think now is the time, because especially, I know it makes people feel uncomfortable when we talk about, you know, making decisions based on, you know, heaven or hell, which. Look, the first few years of my life, that's all I was hearing. And, you know, I actually wrote a book where I had the principle. Right. I just wish that I'd have had more of the package. Right.
- [32:01]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [32:01]
Jase Robertson
And how I got there. I wrote that book because I said. And I made this illustration, and I made it my whole Christian life, but I finally found the smoking gun. You're gonna be fascinated by this, I think, But I've always said the whole key to Christianity is focusing on who you're with, not where you're going.
- [32:24]
Phil Robertson
Yeah, the journey.
- [32:25]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. Because I made a point. It's like, take my wife. She doesn't. She doesn't care where we're going. I'll say, babe, you want to take a trip? Yeah. I mean, she just. She. She wants to go because she's assuming I'm going with her. Doesn't matter. And I really have thought about that. Does it really matter where we're going? No, it's who you're with. And so I view eternity as being with Jesus and Jesus people.
- [32:58]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [32:59]
Jase Robertson
I'm like, we're gonna have a good time no matter where we are. However, I'm now realizing, kind of, I found a little smoking gun here, so in John. And I want to. I want to share this with you. You know, we have the seven I Am's. We actually did a series on the podcast on the seven I am's, remember?
- [33:18]
Phil Robertson
Yep.
- [33:19]
Jase Robertson
And you remember what they are? Can y'all name them?
- [33:21]
Phil Robertson
I'm the bread alive. I'm the light of the world.
- [33:24]
Jase Robertson
That's too.
- [33:25]
Phil Robertson
I'm the resurrection, the resurrection and the light.
- [33:29]
Zach Dasher
Alpha, the Omega, beginning and end.
- [33:30]
Jase Robertson
That's Revelation 1. And unfortunately, it's not in the 7 I ams, because I think they're saying 7 I am to John.
- [33:37]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [33:38]
Jase Robertson
But Revelation, you could make a case for that being number eight, because he says, I'm the Alpha, the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Yeah, that's the verse. So that's actually 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.
- [33:50]
Phil Robertson
And the gate is another.
- [33:51]
Jase Robertson
I'm the gate. You got four of them so far.
- [33:54]
Phil Robertson
And then there's one in. In John 8 where he says.
- [33:59]
Jase Robertson
He says, I'm the way, the truth, the life. That's. That's five. You're missing two. I am. All right, so you got the bread, the light. Did you say the door?
- [34:12]
Phil Robertson
We said the gate.
- [34:13]
Jase Robertson
The gate. Three. The Good Shepherd.
- [34:15]
Phil Robertson
I'm the Good Shepherd.
- [34:16]
Jase Robertson
That's four.
- [34:16]
Phil Robertson
John 10.
- [34:17]
Jase Robertson
I'm the resurrection.
- [34:19]
Zach Dasher
I'm lost.
- [34:20]
Jase Robertson
The way, the truth.
- [34:21]
Zach Dasher
I got to see it on paper.
- [34:23]
Jase Robertson
Well, number seven is I'm the true vine.
- [34:26]
Phil Robertson
The vine, yeah.
- [34:27]
Jase Robertson
That's John 15. Okay, so those are the seven. But I will make a point before I give you. Because I'm going to introduce a number eight that should. It's not in John, but it should be number eight. Because when I read this and I went and looked it up, I thought, why have I never brought this up? Because there's another case you can make in John where he says, before Abraham was John 8.
- [34:48]
Phil Robertson
That's what I mentioned.
- [34:49]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, yeah. Which is not considered part of the seven.
- [34:52]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [34:52]
Jase Robertson
But. And I think they came up with these seven, because when you think about these things. Because I don't want to miss the point. Those seven are powerful. It really describes. Think of the opposite. Like when you're hungry. So he says, I'm bread. Well, when you're really hungry. I mean, I've been in moments where I was, like, so hungry that I just, you know, stick my head in a bowl. And there's a story where.
- [35:21]
Phil Robertson
Usually meant after a day in the duck blight or something.
- [35:24]
Jase Robertson
Well, yeah, it's just like. And the only time I was really hungry is when I was in the Ukraine on that mission trip.
- [35:31]
Phil Robertson
And we ran out because you couldn't find food.
- [35:33]
Jase Robertson
Well, we ran out of food. We gave away what we brought because the people there were in way severe, more severe conditions than we were. Well, I really know what it was to be hungry. I'm telling you. It was five days. I drank a little bit and ate a couple of crackers in five days. And when we. I've told the story many times, but we stopped at that Moscow McDonald's after five days. And I mean, it just. I just gorged myself. I was paying people to move up in the line. Seriously, I had a box of money because the exchange rate was so terrible back then.
- [36:16]
Phil Robertson
Jase, there's a lot going on in the world. It's easy to kind of get distracted. It's something every day that's new that kind of shifts people's attention. But one of the things That I think is there every day for us as believers. There are babies in mother's wombs who need help. I mean, they need us to be able to defend their right to be here and to hopefully provide a pathway to get here and to take care of them once they're here.
- [36:42]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. And life is special to us, especially the younger they are.
- [36:47]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [36:48]
Jase Robertson
Just because it reminds us all, you know, the greatest gift in this world is life.
- [36:54]
Phil Robertson
It is. And we all kind of fight this life battle at different stages in our family, but we're all in this thing together. And one of our sponsors, which is also one of our friends in this ministry, is Preborn. They have a network of clinics, and they're literally on the front line. They're nationwide and they're on standby for women deciding between the life of their babies. Obviously at the most crucial decision in both of their lives. Preborn seeks these women out to help them choose life not just for the babies, but for themselves. Lisa and I tell our story, and part of her story is how she's been impacted by making a bad decision for her 43 years ago. So it matters to both. The heartbeat changes everything. And that precious heartbeat says, I am alive today. Would you be the voice for the preborn and become a monthly donor? $28 a month could be the difference between the life and death of so many lives. To donate securely, just dial £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250, baby. Or you can visit preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed.
- [38:09]
Jase Robertson
I'Ve never said anything negative about McDonald's since.
- [38:12]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [38:13]
Jase Robertson
Because I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever. But when you're hungry, it's the greatest thing.
- [38:18]
Phil Robertson
And they had one in my account.
- [38:20]
Jase Robertson
Having a place that you need to stop. So when he says, I'm the bread alive. Just think about the emotions when you're really hungry. On what he's saying here.
- [38:28]
Phil Robertson
Good point.
- [38:29]
Jase Robertson
He's like, I'll satisfy that. Because he picked the strongest thing. Look, when he says light, well, how are you when you're in total darkness? There's no worse feeling in the world.
- [38:39]
Phil Robertson
Despair.
- [38:40]
Jase Robertson
You're. I mean, it's. People have a phobia of that. I do not like. I mean, as a little.
- [38:46]
Phil Robertson
You lose your mind.
- [38:47]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. As a little kid, I remember thinking walking that 50 yards from Granny's to.
- [38:54]
Phil Robertson
Pa to our house.
- [38:55]
Zach Dasher
Yeah.
- [38:56]
Jase Robertson
In the black dark. And I ran. Nobody had to give me a spiritual sermon on it. I was like, you Know, you're just terrified because you can't see.
- [39:05]
Phil Robertson
And that means as you trip over that crack in the concrete stump, toe.
- [39:10]
Jase Robertson
Well. And you think about door, gate. What's significance of that? Well, ask somebody in prison.
- [39:15]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. When they're trying to get.
- [39:17]
Jase Robertson
There's a locked door. I mean, you're. And I'm claustrophobic. I don't even like being in an elevator.
- [39:21]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [39:22]
Jase Robertson
So it's like when you start adding all these things up, what he's presenting is really powerful. Well, I'm the good shepherd. And so it took me a second to think about that one. But I thought, well, how many times in your life are you running with the wrong crowd and you feel trapped and you don't know. You don't know how to break free. And then you just start looking for another crowd.
- [39:43]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [39:43]
Jase Robertson
And it's like, wouldn't it be nice if you just had a leader who would say, look, follow me. And. Because it's all these trap scenarios. And then when the resurrection was like, well, just there's people in, in the counseling world who don't even believe in God that make people lie down in a coffin and while you're alive. And just. I wouldn't want to do that because everybody's terrified of that.
- [40:10]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [40:10]
Jase Robertson
I mean, so you just, you think, well, the way. Well, that's why I told you the story about being lost.
- [40:16]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [40:17]
Jase Robertson
When you're lost, just think of me. Arguments, confusion, how many arguments I've had. My wife, like, you don't know the way. It's just chaos ensues, then panic happens and then you end up doing what? Pulling over on the side of the road, stopping life and settling the argument. The relationships now been fractured because nobody knows, you know, where the heck we're going. And then the true vine, which I thought was interesting and more challenging. But as a wilderness person, I would venture to say the toughest thing in the woods is a vine. I have tripped over more. They're unstoppable. You can cut them off. And the next year, I mean, you can literally whack them off. In the next year, there's 10 more. Well, it just. And I thought, man, it's such a awesome thought. When and if you want to do a Google search on the. The power of vines and there are way. I literally read them for a couple hours, especially all those in Israel with the grapevine on how tough they are. And so having said all that, I stumbled upon another. I am. And I thought, how have we missed this? And I Googled it to see if it was on any list. Zach's was on the list. I'm the alpha, the Omega, the before Abraham was I am. But this verse was on no list. I was shocked. Y'all have any idea? Obviously, we did a series and we didn't bring it up.
- [41:50]
Zach Dasher
You're saying what is it in John? It's an I am.
- [41:52]
Jase Robertson
No, it's not in John. It's another I am. And I think it should be number eight or number one because it goes to the vocation. And I think that's why it's never been on a list. And I looked up the Greek. I thought maybe it doesn't say that. Oh, no, it's in the Greek. It's. It's right in line with all those other I am. It's in Matthew 28. And it's really exciting. So we have groundbreaking introduced. Found another I am. No, it's so. It's hidden so subtly that you. We just miss it. So watch what he says. Speaking of our vocation and in the light of. So now we fast forwarded because we're in John 1, where he's picking the disciples, Right? Now we're in Matthew 28, where he has accomplished what he's accomplished. The death, burial, resurrection. Right? So he stands up in verse. What verse is that? 16. Then the 11 disciples. Because now we've. We've already addressed Judas went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. And when they saw him, they worshiped him. But some doubted. Now I'm stopping here because he's already gone through the seven I ams through John. We're just in Matthew's.
- [43:17]
Phil Robertson
Yeah, we're at the very. He's about to ascend.
- [43:19]
Jase Robertson
Well, he gives them another one. He gives them a number eight.
- [43:22]
Phil Robertson
Let's see it down there.
- [43:23]
Jase Robertson
Then Jesus came to them and said, all authority. Well, here's the heaven and earth coming together has been given to me. Ephesians 1 says the same thing. This was God's plan. Heaven wasn't as far as we thought it was away. Going back to Genesis 1. I mean, this just has the whole package. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations. Well, now we're getting into vocation here. All nations go make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, the Holy Spirit, and teach them to obey everything I've commanded you, which is that why come and see me and surely. Well, here it is. I am with you always to the very end of the age. Well, how is that even possible.
- [44:15]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [44:16]
Jase Robertson
Because we know he's fixing to leave.
- [44:18]
Phil Robertson
Yep.
- [44:19]
Jase Robertson
How is he going to be with him always?
- [44:22]
Phil Robertson
Must have to send something to live inside of maybe. I don't know.
- [44:26]
Jase Robertson
That's why when I read that, I was like, how have I missed this? Because it's such a profound statement about living forever with Jesus, which is why he's going to give us his Holy Spirit, which he says, and I look, am with you always. That. When did that start?
- [44:52]
Phil Robertson
As soon as he left.
- [44:54]
Jase Robertson
I think it started when he said it.
- [44:56]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [44:57]
Jase Robertson
I am with you.
- [44:59]
Phil Robertson
Right?
- [45:00]
Jase Robertson
Always. I'm with you always till the very end of the age. Well, what age is he talking about? The. The age of this age, the world pre resurrected body. Okay, but that means I'm with you right now.
- [45:18]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [45:19]
Jase Robertson
And which John kind of goes further down that. Remember when it says he breathed on him, in this section of John, he breathed on them the Holy Spirit, which I think was a reflection of when God breathed on Adam and Eve.
- [45:37]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [45:38]
Jase Robertson
So they could. Well, he breathed on Adam, gave him breath of life. Well, now this is the new creation. And by that he gave them his spirit. And then he said, as the Father sent me, I now send you. Which is John's kind of great commission.
- [45:54]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [45:55]
Jase Robertson
Don't you find that fascinating?
- [45:56]
Phil Robertson
That's good. It's really good.
- [45:57]
Zach Dasher
Yeah. He. I think it's interesting. Gospel of Matthew, it starts the same way too. When he says that Emmanuel, which means God with us, that's at the very beginning of Matthew, is that God is here. God's with us now in Jesus. And then at the very end of Matthew, he says, I'm going to be with you. I am with you forever. So it's kind of like the accomplishment of what he came to do, which was, again, presence. That's why I think that we have to read the Bible through the lens of God, his presence with his people. That is the ultimate goal of his entire plan of what he's accomplishing. And he's going to do that and does do that despite human failing. That's the whole temple stuff. Everything we've talked about, the temple, the kingdom, all of it, the atoning, sacrifice, everything is pointing to that reality that God is going to live with humans and probably more specifically in humans.
- [46:59]
Jase Robertson
Well, that's what I'm saying. My point is, he said the wording on that is tricky. I'm with you always to the very end of the age. So you're like, well, which is it? I'm with you always or to the end of this age. So I'm saying that is. Now all these other verses start making sense. Romans 8:11. If the Spirit of Christ who raised him from the dead is living in you, then he who gave life to Jesus will also give life to your mortal body. Once they got the spirit. You are with Jesus always, but it's connecting heaven and earth. He's at the right hand of God in heaven, but there's a connection now been formed because he poured out his spirit into their hearts. Heaven and earth has come together. So he's with you always. Well, to the very end of this age, which is pre him coming back. New bodies, new heaven and earth. I don't know any other way to read it.
- [48:08]
Zach Dasher
So here's a question for you. What is the gospel? The way you answer that question has a lot of significance in how you live your life out. And we would argue, based on the teaching of Jesus in the Book of Mark, that that definition of the Gospel should not be separate from the coming of the kingdom based on Jesus's words in Mark. We're talking about this on my new podcast called Not Yet Now. Would love to invite you guys to join. We're going to go through the series, this series on the Book of Mark. We launch every Tuesday and would love to have you guys be a part of it. So go check us out Not yet now podcast with Zach Dasher. You can find us anywhere podcasts are heard. The title again is Not yet now with Zach Dasher. Or you can check us out on YouTube as well at Dasher Zach Z A C H at Dasher Zach. Hope to see you guys there. Well, that's why, that's why these disciples in John 1, they. They kind of, I don't think they obviously didn't understand what you just said in that moment. They just understood it in part because he says when he's calling all these guys out. And then in verse 43, since the next day Jesus decided to leave for Galilee, finding Philip, he said to him, follow me. So you see that repeated language of follow me, Philip and Andrew and Peter, like, like Andrew and Peter was from the same town of Bethsaida. Philip found Nathanael and told him, we have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law and about whom the prophets also wrote. Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. So they understood the arrival of the Messiah, at least in part in context of the Old Testament. Didn't quite understand it fully yet because they were thinking too small. As Jesus is going to point out here. Just a second. Nazareth can Anything good come from Nazareth? Nathaniel asked. Come and see, said Philip. When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said to him, here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit. How do you know me? Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, I saw you while you were still under the fig tree, before Philip called you. Then Nathanael declared, rabbi, you are the Son of God. You are the King of Israel. So I think that was the context that they are thinking king of Israel, the Messiah, the one that Moses talked about. But they're understanding of what Israel or who Israel is was limited because Jesus said, you believe because I told you under the fit that I saw you under the fig tree. Otherwise I performed a miracle. But you will see greater things than that. He then added, very truly, I tell you, you will see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man. And that's probably a reference to the Son of Man passage in Daniel, chapter seven, when Jesus appears before the Ancient of days.
- [51:03]
Jase Robertson
Well, I don't think it's probably it is.
- [51:05]
Phil Robertson
And it's also referenced earlier in that. In Genesis 28.
- [51:08]
Jase Robertson
Well, with Jacob, now we're going back to Jacob and Esau, which you, you know, talking about Jesus is the bread of life. I mean, Esau gave up his birthright for a meal to show you the power of hunger.
- [51:23]
Phil Robertson
That's a good point.
- [51:24]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, but no, it really, I mean, it really is, you know.
- [51:28]
Zach Dasher
Well, when you think about this Daniel 7 picture, because what's the. Like, it's. This comes up again, by the way, in Mark 13 as well, and repeatedly in Scripture, like Jesus is referring to himself as the Son of Man. But when we read like a text like Mark 13, that seems like it's talking about the second coming. It's not. It's talking about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. But just, just a simple reading of it, you. You'll miss that. You'll miss what it's really talking about. But when he mentions this Son of Man coming, that is a picture of Christ being vindicated. This is a picture of Christ ruling as king, being vindicated. And if you go back and read Daniel 7, what you're going to notice is it's not about Christ coming to earth, not this Son of Man thing, it's about Christ, the Son of man, coming before the Ancient of Days, the Father. And the Ancient of days then gives him full dominion over everything and puts all the nations under his rule and reign. So it's this picture of a king of Israel. But I would Say your definition of king and your definition of Israel is probably too small. Christ is going to reign over all of it. Going back to your text that you read at the end of Matthew, what does he say before he says any of that? He says, all authority on heaven and earth has been given to me. And what does he tell him to do? Go make disciples. Of who? The nations. It's like this perfect picture. God had a plan, and he accomplished it in Jesus. And this is what he's foretelling right here. They don't know what that means yet, but they're going to find out.
- [53:13]
Jase Robertson
Well, I want to read the Genesis 28. So 28:12. Jacob had a dream. This is 28:12. In which he saw a stairway resting on the earth with its top reaching to heaven. And the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. There, above it stood the Lord. And he said. He said, I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham, and the God of God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you're aligned. I'll skip down and read verse the end of verse 14. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you. All peoples, all nations on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. Verse 15. I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go.
- [54:13]
Phil Robertson
That sounds familiar.
- [54:14]
Jase Robertson
I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go. I am. Okay, got it. Which is God's nickname. Yeah, I am. But I'm saying. I think we missed that 1 in 28. Then he says, I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I promised you. But here's. Here's just a fascinating verse. When Jacob awoke from his fleet, he thought, surely the Lord is in this place. And I was not aware of it. But I just think in our culture, in our time, thinking of God, that sentence, it really spoke to me because I really feel like a lot of people, they're surrounded by God and they're not aware of it. Yeah, they don't realize how close heaven is, how close God is. Especially when you read all the verses that we've been reading about. Even in this dream, he's like, well, God was here. You look at Genesis 1, God was there. He was there. When the tabernacle got. God's presence was there. Remember when he opened the eyes, the war. The. When the war was going on, what was it? Elisha. And all of a sudden. Yeah. Second Kings 5. It's like, oh, look how close this is. You remember when Stephen, he preached back seven. Yeah. And they started throwing rocks. Well, he looked up and he sees Jesus at the right hand of God. Whoa. You know, you can't see very far.
- [55:46]
Phil Robertson
That's right.
- [55:47]
Jase Robertson
It's just that layer was peeled back for him, and all of a sudden, Jesus is standing. So I just think there's a danger when you think that God is a million miles away.
- [55:59]
Phil Robertson
Hang on, Zach, we're out of time.
- [56:01]
Zach Dasher
Oh, I got one thing. Takes two seconds. That the place where God met with man was Bethel. That's Genesis 28.
- [56:09]
Phil Robertson
House of God. That's what it means, the house of God.
- [56:12]
Zach Dasher
What's happening here in this text is Jesus is saying, I am the new house of God. I am the new meeting place. I am Bethel. Going back to your I am. So he doesn't say it that explicitly, but that's the imagery that I think would have probably been in the mind of, you know, second Temple, you know, Judaism would have been. Wait, he's talking. He's. They may not have got it yet, but he's dripping these. This for the imagination that he is. No doubt.
- [56:37]
Jase Robertson
Well over your two seconds. But that's the point I was making. And when you have the spirit of Christ, you're now the house of God.
- [56:46]
Phil Robertson
So we'll pick this up in our next one. But just one little tease. And you know what Jacob left behind to mark the house of God? A stone, a rock. Boom. We'll pick that up next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.