Ep 1048 | Jase Calls Out the Yankees' ‘Duck Dynasty’ Beard Policy & Is Alcohol Inherently Bad?

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family: Episode 1048 Summary

Episode Title: Jase Calls Out the Yankees' ‘Duck Dynasty’ Beard Policy & Is Alcohol Inherently Bad?
Release Date: February 27, 2025
Host: Tread Lively

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1. Welcome and Zach’s Return from England (00:01 - 02:14)

The episode kicks off with the Robertson family welcoming back Zach Dasher, who has just returned from a trip to England. Zach humorously shares his experience navigating cultural differences, particularly highlighting how Americans are perceived abroad.

• Phil Robertson (00:01): "I am unashamed. What about you?"

• Zach Dasher (00:39): "I went back to the homeland where we're still considered tyrants."

Zach recounts visiting significant sites like C.S. Lewis's house in Oxford, sparking a lighthearted discussion about the significance of buildings and God’s presence beyond human structures.

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2. Yankees' No Facial Hair Policy and Duck Dynasty Beards (12:17 - 15:54)

A major topic of the episode revolves around the New York Yankees’ newly enforced no facial hair policy, which uniquely excludes the trademark Duck Dynasty-style beards of the Robertson family.

• Jase Robertson (12:19): "Yankees drop 49 year no facial hair policy on one condition. No Duck Dynasty beards."

The family humorously dissects the policy, debating their allegiance to their beard style linked to their "Duck Dynasty" fame.

• Zach Dasher (12:54): "I will disavow the Yankees. I'm not a Yankees fan."

They explore the cultural implications of the policy and how it contrasts with their image, culminating in playful banter about baseball teams and personal style.

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3. Personal Stories and Impact of Their Work (23:00 - 35:43)

The conversation shifts to personal anecdotes illustrating the impact of their ministry and media presence. Phil shares an encounter with a fan who expressed deep appreciation for their podcast, highlighting the meaningful connections they foster.

• Phil Robertson (23:00): "He said, 'Zach is the best.'"

Jase narrates a touching story about a couple from Arkansas whose lives were transformed after attending one of their retreats, emphasizing the personal and spiritual growth facilitated by their work.

• Jase Robertson (24:05): "He said, I am ready to tell people Jesus."

These narratives underscore the family's commitment to spreading their Christian faith and the tangible effects of their outreach.

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4. Discussion on Baptism and Biblical Interpretation (35:43 - 43:37)

A significant portion of the episode delves into theological discussions about baptism, the use of wine in scripture, and the importance of understanding biblical context over legalistic interpretations.

• Phil Robertson (40:15): "It's about God being present and able to work and to save."

• Zach Dasher (43:37): "We argue that the definition of the gospel should not be separate from the coming of the kingdom based on Jesus's words in Mark."

The hosts critique rigid religious practices, advocating for a more heartfelt and authentic relationship with God rather than focusing solely on rituals. They explore how traditions can sometimes obscure the foundational messages of Christianity.

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5. The Role of Alcohol in Biblical Contexts (48:24 - 51:35)

Addressing the episode's title question, the Robertson family discusses the biblical perspective on alcohol. They differentiate between its sacred use and potential for abuse, emphasizing that alcohol itself is not inherently bad but its misuse can lead to negative consequences.

• Zach Dasher (49:41): "There is a redemptive aspect of alcohol as a gift from God."

• Phil Robertson (49:56): "Jesus is saving the best for last," referencing the quality of wine served at weddings.

They argue that alcohol, when used responsibly, can be part of joyful celebrations as depicted in the Bible, contrasting it with scenarios where excessive consumption leads to debauchery.

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6. Promoting Positive Cultural Impact Through Entertainment (30:27 - 32:34)

The discussion shifts to the importance of quality films in shaping culture. They highlight the release of “Last Breath,” a film praised for its inspirational true story and impactful storytelling.

• Jase Robertson (30:49): "Last Breath is based on extraordinary true events... an immersive movie you cannot miss."

Zach underscores the significance of engaging with the arts to influence and inspire societal values positively.

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7. Closing Thoughts and Future Topics (53:21 - End)

As the episode wraps up, the family reflects on their discussions and teases upcoming topics. They emphasize the continuous influence of their parents' teachings and the ongoing mission to share their faith authentically.

• Phil Robertson (54:10): "God wants to dwell with people and reveal His glory."

• Jase Robertson (55:17): "The influence and impact of our parents are ever-present."

They encourage listeners to engage with their content, leaving ratings and subscribing to stay updated on future episodes.

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Key Takeaways:

• Cultural Identity: The Robertson family's distinctive beards, a nod to their "Duck Dynasty" fame, spark conversations about personal and cultural identity, especially in professional settings like sports teams.

• Faith and Authenticity: Emphasis on living out their Christian faith authentically, beyond rituals and legalistic practices, focusing on a heartfelt connection with God.

• Biblical Interpretation: A critical look at how traditional practices can sometimes overshadow the core messages of scripture, advocating for understanding context and spirit over formality.

• Alcohol in Scripture: Differentiates between the sacred use of alcohol in celebrations and its potential for misuse, promoting responsible consumption aligned with biblical teachings.

• Impact of Media: Highlights the role of quality entertainment in shaping and influencing cultural values, advocating for media that inspire and uplift.

• Personal Stories: Sharing impactful personal experiences underscores the tangible effects of their ministry and the importance of community and support in faith journeys.

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Notable Quotes:

• Phil Robertson (00:01): "I am unashamed. What about you?"
• Jase Robertson (12:19): "Yankees drop 49 year no facial hair policy on one condition. No Duck Dynasty beards." (12:19)
• Zach Dasher (43:37): "We argue that the definition of the gospel should not be separate from the coming of the kingdom based on Jesus's words in Mark." (43:37)
• Zach Dasher (49:41): "There is a redemptive aspect of alcohol as a gift from God." (49:41)

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This episode of Unashamed with the Robertson Family blends humor, personal anecdotes, and deep theological discussions to explore themes of identity, faith, and cultural impact. Through engaging dialogue and candid storytelling, the Robertson family continues to inspire listeners to live out their faith unapologetically.

Transcript

[Phil Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Zach Dasher]

Three, two, one. Y'all miss me? Did everybody miss me?

[Jase Robertson]

Welcome back to Unashamed. Zach is so chomping at the bit because he's been gone for a weekdays that he just can't help himself. He's just. He's bubbling over.

[Phil Robertson]

I heard you came back a day early. That's a bad sign.

[Zach Dasher]

I did come back a day early.

[Jase Robertson]

So you went to the. The. The Queensland. The motherland.

[Zach Dasher]

Great Britain. Yeah. I went back to the homeland and where we're still considered tyrants.

[Phil Robertson]

But who's we?

[Zach Dasher]

Americans.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, really?

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, yeah. They don't like us.

[Phil Robertson]

Maybe how you carried yourself.

[Jase Robertson]

You are our representative.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, you know, we. My buddy's from England, and every Fourth of July, he sends me a text that says, happy, Happy Tyrants Day. That's what he. That's what he says. Happy Tyrants Day.

[Jase Robertson]

So I guess that's a view of the world. We threw the yoke off, and they're still grappling about.

[Phil Robertson]

We did.

[Zach Dasher]

It was interesting. They got the. We went out to Oxford to CS Lewis's house, which was pretty cool.

[Jase Robertson]

That would be awesome. And was it just a little. Little cottage? Little.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

It's called the kilns. So there's these brick kilns that were there.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

God doesn't live in buildings built by human hands.

[Zach Dasher]

I didn't say he was in there, but we did. But we were in there.

[Jase Robertson]

You were sure.

[Zach Dasher]

It was cool. And then they. And then they called that. There's a building in Oxford that they call the new building, and it was built in, like, the 1800s to give you a little perspective.

[Jase Robertson]

That is the one thing about Europe that. That when you see what they call new compared to us.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that's why I thought you would start with the one job that you were given. You were on a mission that was. Did you ever say, I'm on a mission from Jason?

[Jase Robertson]

Are you, like. Are you at George W. Bush? Can we say mission accomplished?

[Zach Dasher]

I'll tell you. I will tell you this. And Jason actually did reach out to me. Actually, I reached out to him in the middle of the trip. Check.

[Phil Robertson]

That's how much you miss me. Which, because everybody thinks our relationship.

[Jase Robertson]

He never reached out to me day. So that tells you something, right?

[Zach Dasher]

I actually did call you out. You just did not answer. And then your phone said that you weren't accepting phone calls. I don't know what that means, but.

[Phil Robertson]

Everyone says our relationship is strained. That was a sign that of all the people because you were homesick.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And you answered his go.

[Zach Dasher]

He did answer.

[Phil Robertson]

I did. I thought it was going to be some kind of weird dial tone or like, because I didn't know you're in a different country.

[Jase Robertson]

And I thought, well, you know, their ring is even different over there. It's kind of got a. I thought.

[Phil Robertson]

It might be an introduction. Like, would you like to take a call?

[Zach Dasher]

What's weird is there was a lady sitting next to me on the plane and she started to cough and I was like, her. Her coughing had an English accent.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, wow, that's funny. I was like, zach, you're not done for your jokes. But that was fun.

[Jase Robertson]

That was pretty funny.

[Zach Dasher]

No, I mean, I'm not joking. Like, I was. I'm listening. I. I really think she's British. And because her cough had a. An accent to it.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, that's funny.

[Jase Robertson]

Did it sound more proper than our cough? Because.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, it was like high. Like a. Yeah, because the Queen's English.

[Jase Robertson]

Sounds a little more proper when they say it. But yeah, I kind of like the way we drag it out. It just, you know, just for.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, really, if you think about it, if Genesis 11 is true, a little place called the Tower of Babel.

[Zach Dasher]

Let me go. Let me give you a spoiler alert. It is true, but go ahead.

[Phil Robertson]

And also known as ancient Babylon.

[Jase Robertson]

Yep.

[Phil Robertson]

Then we would all be tyrants because God only chose the one nation there to bring forth salvation.

[Jase Robertson]

Good point.

[Phil Robertson]

And it wasn't England or the usa.

[Jase Robertson]

We were way down the line, guys.

[Phil Robertson]

We were.

[Jase Robertson]

We were with the gentile hordes as well.

[Phil Robertson]

The little D. Gods, you know? So.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. Anyway, I didn't want elohims, little Eloims, Jace. I. I did.

[Jase Robertson]

I.

[Zach Dasher]

But I want to tell Al. I did tell Jace this because he was like. I mean, did you do anything that you were supposed to do there? And. And I do think that Jace thought that I was only going to secure a spot for him to treasure hunt.

[Jase Robertson]

Once he told you. That's exactly what he thought.

[Zach Dasher]

But it was an add on to my current trip that we went. Because we went to the ARC conference.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. I was serious. I wasn't kidding. I thought.

[Zach Dasher]

I realized that we caught. When you.

[Jase Robertson]

When we talk.

[Zach Dasher]

But let me tell you what I did secure. Okay, So I didn't secure. Like, I'm not. I haven't closed the deal yet, but I did establish a relationship with an individual whose uncle has a castle in England.

[Phil Robertson]

So hold on. Let's back up. Let's break this down. Exegetically. There's your word. Y'all look it up for the people who listen to me.

[Jase Robertson]

He starts. He secured a relationship.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, he said, I didn't. I didn't close the deal. There's no deal. Can we hunt here or can we not? Right.

[Jase Robertson]

So that's not.

[Phil Robertson]

There's no money gonna change hands. Although I'm open to that, as long as it's reasonable.

[Jase Robertson]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

So I secured a relationship with a guy who has a cousin.

[Jase Robertson]

No, his uncle.

[Phil Robertson]

His uncle, yeah. Yeah. It got. It got wonky. This sounds like.

[Jase Robertson]

Was the uncle once removed or twice removed?

[Zach Dasher]

I think. Yeah. I don't. I didn't get. I didn't get that deep into the.

[Phil Robertson]

Into the negotiation, but I would like to hunt the yard of a castle.

[Jase Robertson]

There's got to be stuff.

[Phil Robertson]

So we have one lead. That's all you got.

[Zach Dasher]

But that's a strong lead. That's a strong lead. Because I've got to.

[Jase Robertson]

Because he did secure the relationship.

[Zach Dasher]

Security. Relationship. With a gentleman whose uncle owns a castle in. In England.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay. So I feel like we got something. Yeah, but it wasn't a strikeout.

[Zach Dasher]

It was a strikeout. It wasn't a home run either. But, I mean, it was a walk.

[Jase Robertson]

Or maybe a walk.

[Zach Dasher]

But the conference I was at, I.

[Phil Robertson]

Think we're still at the plate.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, still at the.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, we're still at the plate.

[Zach Dasher]

We're first base. We're first base. The conference I was at, though, you gotta keep in mind, it was not like this. It wasn't like the. It was people from all over the world, so it was a mixed crowd.

[Jase Robertson]

I didn't want that. Jordan Peterson and Douglas Murray. Did they speak it?

[Zach Dasher]

Yes.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

My friends and fellow were there. I follow. Were they really? Yeah, they were there. I tried to tell them to find you because I knew you were probably there at the same one, but I couldn't get through to them.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay. We took care of that. Well, while you were in England getting the lead, I went to. I flew into Raleigh, North Carolina, which I know. My wife told me. She's like, y'all quit talking about your trips on the podcast. Because that's the worst part of it. But I have to say this because I had something happen.

[Jase Robertson]

But she can't even listen to you on the podcast, so I don't know that. To be fair, that Mrs. Assessment may not.

[Phil Robertson]

She's pretty smart.

[Jase Robertson]

I don't know.

[Phil Robertson]

I took it to heart, but I'm violating that. That thought right here, because, Zach, you're. You're. This is this is welcome Back, Zach.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. Welcome Back, Zach Day.

[Phil Robertson]

Hey, look. That'd be a catchy heading.

[Jase Robertson]

Welcome.

[Phil Robertson]

So in the moment, as I was flying over North Carolina, but I figured because I'm. I'm. I. I got the God view.

[Jase Robertson]

You flew right over Zion's house.

[Phil Robertson]

And I waved.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Because that went in. I knew while I was there, but I thought last time I drove by, I blew a horn, so this time you got a wave from a plane. So. That's not the point of the story. The point of the story was, I.

[Jase Robertson]

Will say, at least that's better than me. The last time I was at Zach's house, he was trapped outside of North Carolina, and I was actually looting his house, so. For candles and matches.

[Zach Dasher]

So I came home with nothing left.

[Jase Robertson]

Nothing left.

[Phil Robertson]

Typical. So I drove about or had someone drive me. About an hour. I think we went north, but I'm not 100% sure that because it was dark. So I went into the rural areas. I was two hours away from where you're at.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, about two hours east.

[Phil Robertson]

I said, did the hurricane get y'all? And they were like, no, that's two hours from us, so. And look, it was a redneck party, and I can say that because I have redneck tendencies.

[Jase Robertson]

You got more than.

[Phil Robertson]

This was. Most of the crowd looked like Psy and Phil. Seriously.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay.

[Phil Robertson]

So that was that type of event. They had rented a high school auditorium, and that's.

[Jase Robertson]

This was the men's thing, right? Wasn't it a men's.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, they said it was a men's thing, but there were. There were some women there.

[Jase Robertson]

Did the women look like Seinfeld?

[Phil Robertson]

No.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay.

[Phil Robertson]

But there wasn't a lot of women. I think it was predominantly a men's event.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay.

[Phil Robertson]

Most of the women were volunteers, and some of them just didn't get the memo. I did start with Genesis 1. You know, in the beginning, God created the heavens and earth. And then I went to Genesis 2.

[Jase Robertson]

Yep.

[Phil Robertson]

And I was like, you know how you see this on TV in the news? I think Fox does it, but it says, you know, breaking new. But they do it, like, every hour, and it's the same story.

[Zach Dasher]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that's. No longer.

[Jase Robertson]

Every new host opens with the same breaking news.

[Phil Robertson]

So I've always said, why don't. At some point, you put broke news.

[Jase Robertson]

Broken news.

[Phil Robertson]

Broken. It's broken news, but they don't want to do it.

[Zach Dasher]

You guys know what happens on April 15?

[Phil Robertson]

The tax man shows up.

[Zach Dasher]

Tax man shows up. So do you have an unfiled tax return or if you can't pay the irs, I'm going to tell you something. They're very aggressive and the longer you wait, the worse it gets. Wage garnishments, bank levies, even property seizures are on the table. And you need to get ahead of this now. Al, have you ever had any issues with the irs?

[Jase Robertson]

You know I have, Zach. When I spent many years in ministry, didn't make a lot of money and so never really thought much about the irs. But then when the show came along, my job changed, I started making a little money and guess what? All of a sudden the IRS came calling and it was a tough situation. I wish, Zach, I had known about the guys at Tax Network USA back when the IRS came calling.

[Zach Dasher]

But now is the time for you to resolve your IRS troubles. Going against the IRS alone, it's a mistake. Take my advice. Call the experts at Tax Network usa. They know the system and they have an edge. They have a preferred direct line to the irs. They know which agents to deal with and which ones to avoid. So Whether you owe $10,000 or $10,000,000, their genius strategies are designed to quickly help you settle your tax problems. Tax Network USA's attorneys and negotiators have already resolved over $1 billion in tax debt. That's a lot. Tax Network USA can help you too. But you need to move fast because April 15th is almost here. Talk with one of their strategists today. It's free for our audience. Stop looking over your shoulder and put this behind you. Call Tax Network USA at 1-800-958-1000. That's 1-800-958-10000 or you can visit tnusa.comunashamed. that's tn usa.comunashamed.

[Phil Robertson]

I wanted to get to my second illustration which I got to a one of my emails. It's the first time in the history of my speaking that I read shared an email that I got. No, no, it was from Willie's father in law but I had got it that day and I will read.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, I got.

[Zach Dasher]

This is from Johnny.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I got this.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, it's from Johnny. You got it? Let me find it. Where, where is that email? Oh, I don't have it now.

[Jase Robertson]

Hang on, I got.

[Phil Robertson]

Just read the caption. Read the caption.

[Jase Robertson]

All right, I got the caption. You ready?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

This is break. Is this breaking news?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, it was breaking news then breaking news.

[Jase Robertson]

All right. Yankees drop 49 year no facial hair policy on one condition. No duck Dynasty beards.

[Phil Robertson]

Unbelievable. Breaking news. And then I see you come back from England, and the first thing I notice is I believe you're wearing a New York Yankees.

[Jase Robertson]

The Yankees hat. I am.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, so I get it that you support that statement.

[Zach Dasher]

No, I don't support that statement, and I just.

[Phil Robertson]

Because you weren't on Duck Dynasty or you.

[Zach Dasher]

Is there another hat in this?

[Jase Robertson]

He was on Duck Dynasty.

[Zach Dasher]

I gotta have another hat.

[Phil Robertson]

So here's what.

[Zach Dasher]

I will disavow the Yankees. I'm not a Yankees fan. I grabbed that.

[Jase Robertson]

That's why I'm a Dodger fan.

[Phil Robertson]

But you grabbed a hat the same weekend that that story broke.

[Zach Dasher]

Wait, did they?

[Phil Robertson]

England.

[Zach Dasher]

This is not a joke. This is for real.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, I'm reading the headlines.

[Phil Robertson]

I do not. I do not make jokes on purpose. We've already established.

[Zach Dasher]

No doubt. What is a Duck Dynasty Beer.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay, so let me break this.

[Jase Robertson]

By the way, the Duck Dynasty is in quotations, so. Like, which basically, they're saying, that's a thing. That's a. Everybody knows what this means.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, Duck Dynasty has turned into a verb, a noun, an adjective.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, let me read a quote in here, James, before you make your statement. The only information we were offered from Yankees general manager Brian Cashman was that we're not trying to look like Duck Dynasty. Garrett Cole said, referring to the reality show, no dis against Duck Dynasty. You're grinding in the woods all the time. You don't really have any other option.

[Phil Robertson]

See, I. Look, Al. You know what's funny is I never read the article.

[Jase Robertson]

That's hilarious.

[Phil Robertson]

I read the caption.

[Jase Robertson]

I didn't read it either.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, and you just now read it. This is live. Well, because I felt like we needed to respond to it, so I did it. My first event. I read it and I said, so let me get this right. Basically, what they're saying, if you put this into a criminal category, because they had a clarification for the statement. So they. This is. They've never allowed facial hair in the history.

[Jase Robertson]

I knew that. I did know that, because the reason I knew that, Jason, because ball players who were known, like, for their mustache, of their beard, like, on some other team, would go to the Yankees, and then all of a sudden, you would see them, like, with no facial hair. And it made them look weird to me because it's like a guy who seemed. It'd be like, Johnny Damon, you know, he's playing for the red. So when he went to the Yankees, it was like, who is this guy? It wasn't him.

[Phil Robertson]

And he was born Again.

[Jase Robertson]

Exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

And went to the Red Sox and let himself go.

[Jase Robertson]

He did.

[Phil Robertson]

Duck Dynasty style. So here's what I did from a legal perspective. See, look, we're going to talk about being born again.

[Zach Dasher]

We are.

[Phil Robertson]

We got to talk about the little place where we talk about the temple. All right. Good adjustment. Because I feel like.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, I. I can't support that anymore.

[Phil Robertson]

I feel like there's 17 people out there who are saying, I think you should make a statement about this, because they're the ones that brought it up. Now, they did have the clarification, Al. Read the context.

[Jase Robertson]

That was Garrett Cole. Who's their best picture. Who said that?

[Zach Dasher]

Read that. What did he say again?

[Jase Robertson]

Here's what he said. He said the only information we were offered because they asked him about the new policy from the GM was that we're not trying to look like Duck Dynasty. That's what the GM said.

[Phil Robertson]

Shouldn't they have said at that point, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Jase Robertson]

And then he said. Then Garrett Cole, who probably just. He may even know who we are. He says, no dis against Duck Dynasty. You're grinding in the woods all the time. You don't really have any other option.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I appreciate a positive statement, but it was. It was. It was a dis from the management.

[Jase Robertson]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

The player took up for.

[Jase Robertson]

He spun it. He spun it.

[Phil Robertson]

He's like, not that there's, you know, anything wrong with it. They're grinding because Garrett Cole didn't.

[Jase Robertson]

Hadn't always been with the Yankees. He's only been with them a few years.

[Phil Robertson]

So you realize I'll this probably somewhere somebody will have to make a statement about this. So here's what I said. Can I say what I said? So I used it into a legal analogy. I said, so basically they were saying, we're no longer allowing the murder of the beard of our players. Now they can commit premeditated assault, AKA grooming to the beard. Now Maddie's looking at me really weirdly. So let me explain that. Look, if you're. If you wake up every morning and you're just. Remember how Phil used to describe it? You're scraping the hair off your face.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I know. He always made it sound so medieval.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, he made.

[Jase Robertson]

And it's really not as bad as I thought.

[Phil Robertson]

Why would you do that? And so then I said, look, I got. I got some breaking news, which was.

[Jase Robertson]

This was your lead in for your. Yeah, yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

I said, I'm not growing a beard. It's doing that on its own, which is A great line, is it not?

[Jase Robertson]

It's a great line.

[Phil Robertson]

Now, see, when I look at Zach, I see premeditation. I see assault. Because he's grooming.

[Zach Dasher]

Trimming it.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, yeah. Now, you just started yours back, so you're not in there.

[Jase Robertson]

I've been wearing my.

[Phil Robertson]

A few years grooming stage.

[Jase Robertson]

But I will say I was tempted because this weekend at the event I was at, they had a 70s night. And so I was wearing this ridiculous 70s costume. Because when I go to a marriage retreat with Lisa, I'm like, I'll wear matching shirts, whatever. As long as when we leave this place, that's over, we're back to normal life. But I'll do it there for her. And so I. I thought about Jace. To really make myself look like in the moment, I thought about cutting and having the big lamb chops that they had back in the 70s.

[Phil Robertson]

See that? See, I'm almost.

[Jase Robertson]

I almost did it, but I just couldn't. You know why I couldn't? Because of. Because of my family. Because of Duck Dynasty.

[Phil Robertson]

If you're confused about all this, just your yard is the best example, because Phil was consistent. He's like, we don't shave our beards. We don't trim our beards. We don't manicure our beards. We don't mow our yards. We don't trim. We don't use the. What do they call the weed eater? The edgers. No, you. You're either all in or you're all out. And that the only time you cut is just due to, you know, if you get hung up in a tree, if you. Sometimes you have debris that get in there. If you're hanging, you. You can trim because nobody's notice. As long as nobody notices the trim, you're fine.

[Jase Robertson]

What always got me was is that dad would go into freak out mode, like if he found a hair in the pot of beans or something. And he's like, hair in the bed. Hair in the beans. Hair in the beans. Looking around like everybody else. I was like, do you. Do we want to take three guesses on where that hair came from? And the first two don't count. They came right out of that giant Spanish moss that's hanging off of your face.

[Phil Robertson]

Which is great camouflage because the beard. God's design gave men this beard that looks like moss and grass. It's great for fulfilling Genesis.

[Jase Robertson]

It does hide your face. I agree 100%.

[Phil Robertson]

Genesis 9 is the birthplace of honey.

[Jase Robertson]

Unless it gets too white.

[Phil Robertson]

No. Well, then. Then you got a. Looks like real Moss, though. It's still. It's still passing.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, if it's long and flowing, I guess you would.

[Zach Dasher]

Maybe not a Kenny Rogers like a Kenny Rogers White would be a little shocking.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, in our world, there's so many arguments about pro choice and pro life, and. But I think the key thing that's missed is one, yes, we agree, as believers in God, that babies are born in the image of God, but they're also born as humans to image God. And you do that through life, because God is life.

[Jase Robertson]

Exactly. Preborn's network of clinics are on the front lines nationwide on standby for women deciding between the life of their babies. And it's not an easy decision. That ultrasound makes all the difference. Lisa has said many times in front of many audiences that she doesn't live in shame because of her abortion, but she does live in regret. And because she wishes that she had been able to see her baby on an ultrasound all those years ago, it would have affected her decision. So we want women to choose life, and not just for their babies, but, as I said, for themselves. By introducing these hurting women to the life growing inside of them, they are twice as likely to choose life. The heartbeat changes everything. That precious heartbeat says, I am alive. We want you to get involved with preborn today. Would you be the voice for the preborn and become a monthly donor? That's what we're asking for. $28 a month could be the difference between the life and death of so many lives. To donate Securely, just dial pound 250. Say the keyword baby. That's pound 250, baby. Or you can visit preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed.unashamed nation. You have stepped up. You have saved over 5,000 babies last year. Let's do an even bigger job this year.

[Phil Robertson]

So to wrap that up, then I shared Jesus. And there was a couple things that happened that I'll conclude this, this trip in honor of Missy. One is the VIP line, which was after the speech, which is, you know, people pay to whatever their. You know, the money that they had spent or whatever. So they used that, which was very long, long line. One guy came up there, and most of it was, how's your dad? You know, heard y'all have a new show coming out or something about the podcast. There was a few Jesus questions, but one guy stepped up there and he said, well, I gotta tell you something. He said, I really love the podcast. And he's like, I know it's dangerous. To say this out loud, but I'm gonna tell you, Zach is the best.

[Jase Robertson]

Wow.

[Phil Robertson]

I have never heard that in the history of VIP lines. He said, there's just. He just has a way with words, man. So I thought, Zach and Honor.

[Zach Dasher]

Did you feel like the Holy Spirit was speaking to you in that moment? Was that. Did you receive that from the Lord, or how did you receive that?

[Phil Robertson]

I said, so. So let me get this right here was my immediate response. I said, you've been waiting in this line one hour to tell me that.

[Zach Dasher]

Whoever that guy is, he just.

[Jase Robertson]

What state of character?

[Phil Robertson]

So, Zach, just look. Well, sometimes when the pressure's getting to you or you feel like you don't know, you just think there's a guy out there somewhere who's like, I get you, man.

[Jase Robertson]

Cheers for.

[Zach Dasher]

He gets me.

[Phil Robertson]

You officially have a buddy.

[Zach Dasher]

A park got a buddy out there. I love that.

[Jase Robertson]

So I got to tell you a story from. From my. My trip that's just really amazing. So there was a.

[Zach Dasher]

Even though. Said we shouldn't talk about.

[Jase Robertson]

I know we're going to do.

[Zach Dasher]

All three of us have talked about.

[Jase Robertson]

We're sorry, Missy, but these are just too good. There was a young couple. We were in a marriage thing, and there was a couple, and they were. They were telling their story during our weekend, which a couple of couples usually do every year. And what I didn't realize. I have the list of names. We pray over everybody that's going to be there. I didn't realize I had met this couple last year and last year at the same retreat. These guys are from Arkansas. And the wife came in and said, my husband wants to talk to you. And I said, well, sure, you know. And so I'm looking around because we're in a marriage street. Usually everybody's together as a couple. He wasn't there. It was just her. And she said, you know, he's really. We just watched the movie. So, Zach, I thought you'd appreciate this. We just watched the Blind, and it has impacted him so deeply that that's the reason we're here. Like, we're ready to make a life change. He's ready, and we're ready. And I'm looking around. I was like, well, is he here? He wasn't in the room. She said, yeah, he's outside. He's embarrassed to come talk to us at. No, no, no. That's why we're here. So he came in, he told me his story. He was. You know, it was hard for him to tell it, but he told it.

[Phil Robertson]

Did he have a beard?

[Jase Robertson]

He did have a beard. Big old Arkansas boy.

[Zach Dasher]

He would not have been able to play for the Yankees.

[Jase Robertson]

No, he couldn't play for the Yankees. And so we had a great conversation. They had an amazing retreat. I hugged their neck at the end. So that was the end of it. Except this year, through forces I didn't know because I don't do the planning of this anymore. I just show up and help. They were there and they were actually up speaking and telling what's happened this last year. And it was so touching and moving. And he talked about the movies at and how that he had had a problem with alcohol. A lot like dad. It just not been there for his family. A lot like dad. And like it had just moved him to a point. He said when he watched it, when he left the theater, he said, I couldn't even speak. I was so overcome by realizing it was like looking in a mirror in my own life. And so he got home and that started this process. And now a year later, he and his wife are doing great. And, you know, just what, you know, he's ready to do his own podcast. And I mean, he was just so fired up for Jesus this year. And we had a great conversation. But I just, I wanted to mention on the podcast, because we talk a lot about, obviously we miss dad being here as a regular part of our discussion, but he's never far, he and mom, especially from what we're talking about, because they trained us, they taught us their impact still goes on. And that's what I told him. I was like, well, look. Because he was like, I miss Mr. Phil and the fast, whatever. We all do. I said, but the influence and the impact. And he said, you said it. He said, what did you call us? Some kind of letter? I said, you're a living letter of Dad's life. And I said, and now the thing is, you got to talk to people about Jesus. And he said, well, that's what I want to do. He told me for the first time he woke up this weekend at the retreat and said, I am ready to tell people Jesus. So I loved it. It was a great. It lifted me all the way back here from Arkansas.

[Phil Robertson]

And God wrote the letter, obviously.

[Jase Robertson]

Exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

So while we were in John too, we did the water and the wine. I didn't know if you wanted to have any comments on it. I will note this. The guy who gave me the ride to the event, who put the event on, him and his wife. His wife owns a little bookshop. It's called the Good Book, or good. The Good Books. I think it was the Good Book, singular. And so when we pass, it is like, there's my little shop. Well, it was just in the middle of nowhere, rural area, and it's a little tiny building. And the building was. Was. Had a divider, and there's two businesses. The Good Book. Well, you know what the name of the other building was? The Wine Thief. And I thought, wow, what about your neighbors there? And she was like, well, it's a long story, but, yep, they're. They're the Wine Thief. Which I didn't know what that term meant. I looked it up, which. It's actually a little tool that when you dip into a barrel of wine to taste it, they call that tool the wine thief.

[Jase Robertson]

So you don't have to break the seal or whatever on the whole thing. Okay.

[Phil Robertson]

So I thought that was. I was like, okay, there was a story behind it. But when I saw it, I was like, what does that mean? I was thinking.

[Jase Robertson]

You were thinking John too, right?

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I was. We had just studied John 2. I was thinking First Corinthians when it said, some of you come to take the Lord's supper and you're getting drunk, and, you know, they were wine thieves, you know, getting drunk during the Lord's supper.

[Jase Robertson]

And then you're thinking, how would you open a shop?

[Phil Robertson]

Well, then I just thought, well, that's the spiritual battle. Well, because they said, well, we're going to. We want to sell wine.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And so we're going to open this up right next to the Good Book. So let's just call it the Wine Thief. I mean, that's what my thought was, but I was wrong. But still, I actually said. Because she was kind of chuckling about it, I was like, well, Jesus did turn the water into wine.

[Jase Robertson]

That's funny, because that reminds me, I spoke in Oklahoma one time. Oklahoma City, had a little. A little strip mall. And these people had converted the middle two or three little shops into a place for their church to meet. And so as I'm driving up and get out to go inside the little place on one end is a liquor store on the anchor of one corner of the strip mall, and the other is a CBD pot dispensary on the other end of it. So when I got up, I said, well, you guys have chosen an interesting place to meet here. I've noticed there's a liquor store on one end and a pot dispensary on the other. I said, you know what I call that? And they're all looking like, what's he going to say? And I said, prime real estate.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Because everybody coming there looks like they need it. So that we did the. We did the water to wine on a couple of podcasts when you were gone with Sign Lisa. But as Jay said, did you have any commentary to add to that before we get to the clearing of the temple? That's kind of where we left off. So, Zach, you're our local movie mogul. Since you've been working on the Blind and other films, how important is it to have great films for people to.

[Zach Dasher]

Appreciate if you really want to impact the culture? We got to get in the arts, got to get in entertainment. I think quality films are super important. The stories we tell, they shape the imagination of a culture.

[Jase Robertson]

So there's a new film out called Last Breath. It's from Focus Features and it invites you to experience the most inspirational film of the year on February 28. J, you have seen this film. Tell us what you thought about it.

[Phil Robertson]

I got a sneak peek of the film and I really liked it. It's a true story, which is what I like, but it's an incredible story. And you got to remember, in our age of movies, the bar is low. I mean, they just quit making good movies.

[Jase Robertson]

I know.

[Phil Robertson]

And so this is a pleasant surprise and worth the price of admission.

[Jase Robertson]

So Last Breath is based on extraordinary true events. It tells the story of a deep sea diver trapped at the bottom of the Ocean with only 10 minutes left of oxygen. He struggles to navigate the pitch black abyss while his teammates devise a daring plan to save him from certain death. What happens next, some call impossible, others say it's a miracle. The film stars Woody Harrelson, Simu Liu and Finn Cole. Last Breath takes you inside a world of deep sea high pressure diving where every decision, every second and every breath is a life or death moment. Incredible performances, amazing visuals, and uplifting emotional core. This is truly an immersive movie you cannot miss. Witness the most thrilling motion picture event of the year on the big screen. Get your tickets now for Last Breath, rated PG13, may be inappropriate for children under 13. It opens February 28th in theaters everywhere.

[Zach Dasher]

The water to wine. Well, I always grew up here that that wine was non alcoholic wine. Did I talk about that a little bit?

[Jase Robertson]

A little. Because we referenced that, Zach. Unfortunately in our upbringing, every time this text was used, that was what the lesson tended to go to. Where they missed the whole point of the pilot.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, the whole point is missed. Once you start looking at everything Legalistically or ritualistically?

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, it was two parts this and three parts that. Remember all that, Zach?

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They had a whole. I don't know how they got there, but they got there somehow.

[Phil Robertson]

You know what's funny, though, is I told you I went to Redneck usa, but on the way back, the person I was sitting beside, I happened to be in first class, which is nice, and was a CEO of some big medical company, you know, a woman. And we just kind of started the conversation. So I look for the opportune time to drop in, what I'm in on.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Because I thought, you know, here's a woman that's got a lot of power and influence. And so. And it. It was perfect because a guy had come by and he was like, I want to see if I can get you to come do an event for us. You know, he just was in the hallway of the airplane. Well, she's looking at me like. I mean, I knew what she was thinking. What is a guy looking like this? Who? This guy was spiffy looking and civilized.

[Jase Robertson]

Asking you, he looked normal.

[Phil Robertson]

And she's thinking, the reason I'm writing in first class is to get away from people that look like you. I mean, I know she didn't say that, but I get it. So she's now thinking, people know this guy. What's the story? So, because I. She didn't say anything.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So I took my Bible.

[Jase Robertson]

But you knew what she was thinking.

[Phil Robertson]

I knew what she was thinking. So I took my Bible out of my bag. So I thought I'd do a little study and research. And I said, sorry about that. You know, these. It's. These people recognize me. And she said, well, how do they recognize you? I said, well, that's a long story. And I said, we were. You know, I went through the TV show, the Duck Dynasty, I should have brought up the Yankees, just declared that their players couldn't look like us. And I said, we have a podcast. And she said, well, what's the podcast about? Well, that was the money question there, because it's like, you did the show years ago and now what, y'all still talking about it? And I basically framed it by saying, well, we study the Bible. At the heart of it, it's a Bible study. I said, you only tell stories. I said, but we're real and authentic. Talk about our lives and what's going on. I said, but it's done without an agenda or kind of a, you know, religion based program. I was like, we're we just, we, we're believers. We believe God is real. And so I kind of went through the gospel.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And the Bible, and, and she said, well, that's my whole, whole problem is the ritualistic aspect. And she kind of told her story.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And I thought, isn't that something that. Because I think that's why you're actually listening to this, because we don't, you know, we're just trying to look, hey, God wrote a book. Wow. He came to earth. Jesus. Wow. Let's, let's figure this out.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And, and figure out the context of when this was written and how this kind of applies to us in modern day. And so I think that was a good hook to it. But. And I think passages and signs like this are much more appealing to those people who have had bad religious experiences because you have these people arguing who look at everything like a, like a ritual or a legal. In fact, one of the people in line that we had a conversation about was, she was telling me it was a woman. She said, she said, you know, I got a question. I was baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. She's like, there's a preacher two churches down that said I needed to be baptized again. And I was like, well, how did this conversation come about? She said, he just brought it up. Said, I know you go to this church over there.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, boy.

[Phil Robertson]

So tell me about your baptism. I was like, that's how the conversation started. And he said, well, if you're not baptized in Jesus name, you're out. You need to do that again. And so she, she was like, what do you think about that? And I was like, I'm not sure we're going to have enough time to discuss that right now. But I just kind of made the same statement about there's a lot of people that are looking at the Bible like a formula on words and what you say. And I think I made a comment. I was like, well, Jesus name actually in the Greek was not Jesus. So technically, even if you were baptized in the name of Jesus. Yeah, they, they got the English translation of that. I mean, if we go down the legalistic road, would that have changed?

[Zach Dasher]

What they're getting at there is they're saying that Jesus, they're basically people who teach that are teaching that God is not triune. He's not a trinity. He is one person that manifests himself in Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He has different forms, but it's only one person. It's actually, it's heretical so what they're actually proposing is not. It's just not biblical, because God's clearly three distinct persons in one being. So that's really what that is. It's an anti trinitarian view of the Godhead. And I think it has serious implications.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, it obviously did in this situation, because what did that have to do with any. I mean, all that did was create confusion in the mind of the sin.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I'm all about the name of Jesus.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, me too.

[Phil Robertson]

The book of Acts is filled with it, you know. So I was like, well, maybe maybe they should say, just as a sign of good grace to your neighbor church, just say, I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, in the name of Jesus. When she laughed. And I was like. Because my point is this is about a person and you've made something about a ritualistic step procedure in how you say things. Now, granted, Zach knew the history behind it. I did not. But I think the point is the same. I mean, you fall in love with the Lord and he knows your heart, and you want to surrender to him. And now somebody's going to tap you on the shoulder and say, now make sure you get all the wording right before this event happens.

[Jase Robertson]

When I told y'all the story before, the first time I ever baptized somebody was so excited. I was right out of the world, been a prodigal son, come back, finally, you know, had the wherewithal to tell somebody what Jesus had done in my life. Baptized him down there on the river next to Dad's house. And as I'm coming out, you know, I'm so excited in the moment, you know, because this is. This is good stuff. And this dear brother who I love today, who's crossed over now, he came up, put his arm, and he said, you did so good. And I was like, thank you. I mean, he's an older brother. And he said, now, but you didn't say, for the remission of sins.

[Phil Robertson]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Jase Robertson]

And I was like. And I was crushed in that moment because I thought, oh, no, I've messed up. Yeah. And I was like. But I realized in that moment, through all my years now of helping people, that it's not about the baptizer. It's not about the words, it's not about any of that stuff.

[Phil Robertson]

God is doing the saving somehow. Another, when you take it into that form, which I. I've said this before, which I don't know why we're talking about Baptism. I guess we'll just.

[Jase Robertson]

Because you brought it up.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, but you know, the form. It's like, what. What causes all the arguments about baptism? It comes from these questions that people come up with that do not make sense, which is what I'm relating to the water and the wine. Here's a question that doesn't make sense about the water and the wine. Well, was that alcohol? Was it fermented? That's not the picture. That has nothing to do with what this is talking about.

[Jase Robertson]

Because the leap that people made was, well, you're telling me that my whoever, my uncle who struggled with alcohol his whole life, I mean, Jesus would turn water into actual alcohol. I mean, that's where we make the leap is someone's weakness in an area. And you're like, well, he couldn't have never done that. It had to not be alcoholic. It had to be something that's like.

[Phil Robertson]

The baptism thing, because somebody came up with a question, well, do we have to do this? Well, it's a terrible question. You hear the story of Jesus. You read all the verses. You even. We're going to get to John 3. You know, he's talking about being born of water in the spirit. And. But most of the ones in the Book of Acts, and you see all these things, and for somebody to have. That's their. That's their question. Somehow you've gotten off of God being real, present and able to work and to save. It's like now, oh, I got to figure this out like the pieces of a puzzle, ask 10 hypothetical questions and.

[Jase Robertson]

From 10 different groups. Because then you get all the different teachings.

[Phil Robertson]

You're so far removed. And I think my. To go back to the. The lady that was sitting beside me, the CEO, you know, they just look up and say, enough. I mean, I'm. Because she made a comment like that. She's like, this organized religion is very distasteful to me, you know, and I can't blame her.

[Jase Robertson]

She's just being honest.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. I mean, that is the pulse that you get. And so when you try to bring people together in the name of Jesus, it's in the person of Jesus. It becomes very difficult.

[Jase Robertson]

Yes.

[Zach Dasher]

You know, well, we, you know, we. We left organized religion when I was in the sixth grade. I remember a fifth grade, actually. And my dad, you guys remember this, he was like, I'll never step foot in a church building again. So most of my, like, like teenage years was in revolt against the institutional church. I since come back, I still think the institutional church matters. And I think that it can be.

[Jase Robertson]

For community and a lot of different reasons.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I agree. And you have to learn how to live with people also, you know, loving one another. When Jesus said, all men will know you by your love for one another, well, that takes patience, forgiveness. All these qualities that he offers to us is then passed on. Just look at your marriage, which I think this has some representation. I tend to think these signs are more of a fulfillment based on what had been written.

[Zach Dasher]

So here's a question for you. What is the gospel? The way you answer that question has a lot of significance in how you live your life out.

[Phil Robertson]

And.

[Zach Dasher]

And we would argue, based on the teaching of Jesus in the Book of Mark, that that definition of the gospel should not be separate from the coming of the kingdom based on Jesus's words in Mark. We're talking about this on my new podcast called Not Yet Now. Would love to invite you guys to join. We're going to go through the series, the series on the Book of Mark. We launch every Tuesday and would love to have you guys be a part of it. So go check us out Not yet now podcast with Zach Dasher. You can find us anywhere podcasts are heard. The title again is Not yet now with Zach Dasher. Or you can check us out on YouTube as well at Dasher Zach. Z A C H Zach. Hope to see you guys there.

[Phil Robertson]

Now we have. There's a. There's a new transforming power by God occurring with the arrival of Jesus. And so I think him taking these ceremonial jars of water, transforming them to wine, is looking back to their system, which I think it continues in the next paragraph about the temple. But then look, but then it goes forward. I mean, think Ephesians 5. And then when it says, be filled, don't get drunk on much wine. Actually, Ephesians 5 says that don't get drunk on much wine. But what be filled with the spirit, sing and make music in your heart. So there's your verse for you legalists. But then it goes on to talk about marriage, and then it gives all these roles and then it says, the mystery, though, is that I'm talking about you in Christ.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, and I want to say this, Zach, we talked about this in one of the last podcasts. This wasn't accidental. It almost appears that way because Jesus, like, what are you asking me for? My time has not yet come. But John included it specifically. He only mentioned seven for a reason, because later in our text, at the clearing of the temple, he says Jesus did many other miraculous signs and People put their faith in him, but he doesn't mention any of those specifically. So there was something unique about this situation. And we mentioned this before, it's even the underlying thing that most people don't think about. This was a shame situation. They were out of wine at a public event, a wedding, which in their culture would have been a huge faux pas. I mean this would have been a no can do. You don't run out of wine at the week long feast. And yet here they were. And then Jesus takes that away by not only making wine, but making really premium wine. And that gets mentioned. And so I've always thought maybe that's one of the reasons John puts it in here is Jesus is concerned about taking away everything, including our shame in any relationship. So there's a reason John included it specifically, because he's going to go on to these next ones. But he only mentioned seven specifically. It gives the background of each one of them.

[Zach Dasher]

I would add. Probably one more thing too think about, if you think about like new Exodus language, which I love to love to see that like in the New Testament as being Jesus's mission, as almost like an arrival of a new Exodus in all the gospels. But like if he's like a new Moses, which I think we would argue that he is, some, some scholars would say that, well, what was Moses's first miracle? You turning the water into blood. This is kind of like a mirror of turning the water into wine. Then there's also the imagery of that. Jesus is bringing plenty, he's bringing excess, he's bringing the kind of bringing the party. And I think what's happened in the way I grew up, at least in fundamentalist Christianity, was that it was. Everything was like a negation of something don't do, don't do. Everything was about that stuff you can't do. And, but Jesus came for the life of the world, as we're going to see when we get to John 6. He gave his flesh for the life of the world. So I think this, this wedding, picture of a wedding, I mean that comes up quite a bit in scripture too, that we are the bride of Christ. And if you think about the kingdom of God, it's almost like we're in this preparation for this incredible party and this incredible feast and this incredible wedding when there's that final consummation of Christ's second coming. I think all that imagery is in this moment. And so there's a whole lot in the Old Testament about wine bringing joy now. Yes. Can wine be abused? And can you get drunk on wine and just get sloshed and get out of your mind. And which leads to debauchery as what Paul says in Ephesians 4. But there is a healthy and biblical use of the enjoyment of wine as seen in this text here. I believe that it can be enjoyed. I do believe that it is a gift from God. And I do believe in this passage, you're seeing something really beautiful about the God that we serve and in the coming of his kingdom.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And there was even Zach in the Old Testament, you're right. They would have these offerings from everything that they produced. And wine was one of them, grapes and grains and all these things. And they would pour out the first percentage of their wine. And that was probably part of the distillery process as well. When they did it, they would do it to the Lord. It was like, we're giving you the first of our first fruits. And so that concept is definitely in Jesus mind. And we sort of twisted that through time because of people's abuse of certain things. And Paul certainly deals with that in some of the letters. But it should never take away from the idea that God made all this. This is all his.

[Zach Dasher]

And the best way to handle something like this, in my opinion, is always look for what is the redemptive version of whatever the thing is. And so like when, yes, you see, alcohol is obviously used by a lot of people to get drunk and live in debaucherous ways. Is there a redemptive. Is there anything redemptive about alcohol? I think there is. I think that there is certainly a fine wine. I'll tell you this. I mean, think about something that takes a craft to create. Like no one's going to sit there and just get sloshed on something that took years and years and years to develop and to curate. And I think there is a story here.

[Phil Robertson]

Some of my friends would.

[Zach Dasher]

But yeah, some of your people might be. Got a lot of money, but. But like when he says here that everyone serves the good wine first. And this is in verse 10. And when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now. Well, what's the point? He's saying there is that at these wedding feasts, typically in the, in the cultural moment of this time, you would do is you would serve the good wine first. And then when everybody got a little tipsy, then you start serving the trash. Trash wine. When people don't notice the difference, but what they're noticing about Jesus here is that he actually is saving the best for last. And there's a picture there, one of how Jesus saw alcohol, but more importantly is in the intention of the heart of God is not like the first fruits are just that they're first fruits. What we're experiencing now in the kingdom, it's a foretaste of glory divine. But Christ always brings the best last. And it goes to this excessive love that God has for us. It goes to when God doesn't just answer a prayer a little bit. He doesn't just fulfill a promise. Like think about the promise that he made to Abraham. Did he just barely fulfill that? Or was that promise far beyond what Abraham could have ever imagined? We're sitting here 2,000 years after Christ came, and I don't know how many years after God gave that promise to Abraham that I'm going to make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky. I can almost promise you that Abraham would have never in a million years imagined that thousands of years later he would have spiritual grandchildren. On a podcast in a place called the United States of America talking about this promise. He would have never. He would have never imagined that. But that's what God does. He always over delivers.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[Phil Robertson]

I think also this was the second question that Jesus asked from John's perspective when it said, you know, the first one was, remember we made a big deal. What do you want?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And. Which is a good question if you just take it by yourself and ask yourself. Well, he asked his mom this time, we didn't bring this up before, but said, why do you involve me if you just ask that question about anything in life, why are you involving Jesus? It kind of puts, there's, there's a perspective change there because really, you know, his mom knew he's different. She had to have known that. And when she, her response was do whatever he tells you.

[Jase Robertson]

Which was a directional answer.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I think it's kind of in my mind. It gave. This is in my personal time when I read stuff like this because I realized this was written to a group of people, but it's for me. And it's kind of like when I'm just looking at what I want to do and then have, you know, check with my relationship with Jesus to make sure this is. Yeah, okay. Instead of my primary is to follow Jesus and to be him, you know, on this earth through his spirit. And that involves everything I do. Yeah, it makes God more present. Is. Is what I'm getting at by that question because I, you know, I said somebody or do A lesson just on the questions of Jesus. Yeah, I mean, if you want to relate it to your own life, those are really deep, deeper questions than they seem.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, that's good. Well, we're about out of time, but I did want to get your take on it, which is really good because it kind of catches us back up.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, it's in a good. It's a good segue to the last verse. It, it says, he thus revealed his glory, which when you think back to the Old Testament, when God's glory was revealed, especially through the temporary, the tabernacle and the temple and this connection with Jesus becoming flesh and making his dwelling tabernacling among us. And then in John's Gospel, which is unique to the other three, he has this clearing out of the temple at the beginning. He also has him kind of going in and out of Jerusalem, which makes a little more sense to me.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, I think it's two different. I think the clearing of the temple is happened more than once. I think that what's happening in John 2 is not the same event that happens in Mark 13.

[Jase Robertson]

And we talked about that.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, it may be, or you may be looking at it too much systematically. You know what I mean?

[Jase Robertson]

It could be.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean the point is the same because when we get to the meat of this Jesus too, I think going back to his conversation with Nathaniel, this ladder, Jacob's ladder, this angels descending from heaven and heaven and earth being connected. Well, that's, that's temple language.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And then it kind of makes you think of creation itself in the seven day period because they, you know, when you look at how the temple was built and it looked like a garden and all these fancy things and there's kind of the seven stages of the temple, it all seems to be connected with this one fact that God wants to dwell with people and reveal his glory. And that is a theme of the entire Bible.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. Which is huge. Alright, so we're out of time. We'll pick it up here. We wanted to wait for you to get back, Zach, talk about this temple because we know you got a lot to say about that. So we'll do that next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.