Ep 1049 | Jase Dives Down a Rabbit Hole of Fallen Angels, Human Hybrids & Celestial Rebellion

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode 1049: Jase Dives Down a Rabbit Hole of Fallen Angels, Human Hybrids & Celestial Rebellion
Release Date: February 28, 2025

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Introduction and Welcome

The episode kicks off with Phil Robertson's iconic declaration, “[00:01] Phil Robertson: I am unashamed. What about you?” Setting the tone for an open and earnest discussion, Jase Robertson welcomes Zach Dasher back from England, sparking immediate curiosity about recent events and collaborations within their community.

Cross Pollination: Metaphor for the Gospel

The conversation quickly delves into the metaphor of "cross pollination." At [01:23], Phil muses, “[01:23] Phil Robertson: Cross pollination, actually the transfer of pollen from one plant to another,” which Zach clarifies as a metaphor for the Gospel's spread. This analogy is extended to discuss Jesus' role in cross-pollinating faith globally, emphasizing the unpredictable yet divine nature of spreading the Gospel message.

Jesus as the Ultimate Anti-Contagion

Phil shares a personal anecdote about his germaphobia, relating it to Jesus' interaction with lepers. “[02:55] Phil Robertson: Jesus was like the cross, a spiritual contagion,” he explains, highlighting Jesus' ability to heal without the negative consequences of physical contagion. This discussion underscores the transformative and healing power of Jesus' presence.

Theological Deep Dive: Freedom from Sin and the Devil

The hosts explore the concept of freedom through Jesus, drawing parallels to the Passover. “[05:14] Phil Robertson: He’s freed us from our sins,” Phil asserts, linking Old Testament liberation from slavery to New Testament redemption from sin. This segment emphasizes Jesus' role in breaking the chains of both earthly and spiritual bondage.

Ezekiel's Vision and the Temple

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Ezekiel’s prophetic visions, particularly chapters 40-48, which describe a new temple. “[25:35] Phil Robertson: In Ezekiel 43, verse 6, it says, 'This is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever,'” Phil cites, connecting it to Jesus’ statement in John 2 about destroying and rebuilding the temple. This analysis suggests that Jesus embodies the new temple, fulfilling Ezekiel's prophecy by becoming the dwelling place of God among humanity.

The Destruction of the Second Temple and Its Significance

Phil and Zach examine Jesus' prediction of the temple's destruction. “[46:58] Phil Robertson: When Jesus said, 'Destroy this temple,' he was referring to himself as the new temple,” Phil explains. They discuss the historical context of the Second Temple's destruction in AD 70 and its implications for understanding Jesus' mission and the establishment of a new covenant.

Fallen Angels and Celestial Rebellion

The hosts delve into the controversial topic of fallen angels and celestial rebellion. “[33:48] Phil Robertson: It's also used as like morning stars, sons of God,” referencing Psalm 82 and Genesis 6. They explore theories proposed by theologians like Michael Heiser, who suggest that celestial beings interacted with humans, leading to the creation of the Nephilim. This segment connects ancient texts to contemporary theological interpretations, highlighting ongoing debates about spiritual beings and their influence on human history.

Jesus' Role in Redefining the Temple and Establishing a New Kingdom

Continuing from the temple discussion, Phil emphasizes Jesus' role in redefining the temple’s purpose. “[35:30] Jase Robertson: So it's a New Year's Act, 2025,” Jase interjects during an unrelated promotion, but Phil seamlessly ties it back to their theological discourse. They argue that Jesus’ actions dismantle the old temple system and establish a new spiritual kingdom where believers become the living stones of God’s new temple.

Validation through Prophecy and the Second Coming

Phil and Zach address the interpretation of prophecies related to Jesus’ second coming. “[55:33] Phil Robertson: You don't like validation?” Phil teases, after discussing Acts 15:16-17 about bearing Jesus' name. Zach counters by referencing Mark 13 and Matthew 24, debating whether Jesus’ prophecies pertain to past events like the destruction of Jerusalem or future occurrences. They propose that Jesus’ appearance in the sky, as described in these passages, signifies vindication rather than a literal second coming, emphasizing a present and ongoing kingdom.

Conclusion and Teasers for Future Episodes

As the episode nears its end, Phil notes, “[57:58] Phil Robertson: We're out of time. We're way over.” The hosts hint at continuing their deep theological exploration in future episodes, promising to further unravel the complexities of biblical prophecy, fallen angels, and the celestial rebellion.

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Notable Quotes

• Phil Robertson at [02:55]:
  “Jesus was like the cross, a spiritual contagion.”

• Phil Robertson at [05:14]:
  “He’s freed us from our sins.”

• Phil Robertson at [25:35]:
  “In Ezekiel 43, verse 6, it says, 'This is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever.'”

• Phil Robertson at [33:48]:
  “It's also used as like morning stars, sons of God.”

• Phil Robertson at [35:30]:
  “We are going into the very epicenter in John Chapter two of their entire structure, their entire system.”

• Phil Robertson at [44:23]:
  “At that time, the Son of Man will appear in the sky.”

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Key Themes and Insights

1. Jesus as the New Temple:
   The discussion highlights Jesus’ role in fulfilling and transforming Old Testament prophecies, particularly Ezekiel’s vision of a new temple. By declaring Himself as the temple, Jesus redefines the relationship between God and humanity, establishing a spiritual kingdom that transcends physical structures.

2. Fallen Angels and Celestial Rebellion:
   Exploring passages like Genesis 6 and Psalm 82, the hosts delve into the idea of celestial beings rebelling against God, leading to the creation of the Nephilim. This segment connects ancient scriptures to modern theological debates, emphasizing the ongoing influence of spiritual warfare.

3. Prophecy and Fulfillment:
   Phil and Zach analyze Jesus’ prophecies regarding the destruction of the temple and the implications for His second coming. They argue for a nuanced understanding of these events, suggesting that Jesus’ actions and predictions serve as vindication of His divine mission and the establishment of His eternal kingdom.

4. Freedom and Redemption:
   Drawing parallels between the Passover and Jesus’ redemptive work, the episode underscores the theme of liberation from sin and spiritual bondage. This freedom is portrayed as both a personal and collective transformation through faith.

5. Divine Presence and Human Fellowship:
   The hosts emphasize the importance of living in the presence of God, moving beyond mere avoidance of sin to embracing a lifestyle centered around divine fellowship. This shift is seen as essential for spiritual growth and maintaining a meaningful relationship with God.

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Conclusion

Episode 1049 of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family" offers a profound exploration of biblical theology, intertwining Old and New Testament narratives to present a cohesive understanding of Jesus’ mission and the spiritual dynamics at play. Through engaging dialogue and insightful analysis, the Robertson Family invites listeners to delve deeper into their faith, encouraging a thoughtful and informed approach to scriptural interpretation.

For those seeking to expand their theological knowledge and engage with complex biblical studies, this episode serves as a compelling resource, blending personal anecdotes with scholarly discussion to illuminate the mysteries of faith and divine purpose.

Transcript

[Phil Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Jase Robertson]

Welcome back to Unashamed. We're so excited to have Zach back from jolly old England. That one thing I had to ask for clarification because you said you weren't going to be. You were there totally separate because Willie's family's been over there, Corey's been there. Sadie spoke at something and they had a big thing going on, which you mentioned. You said that had nothing to do with you. And then I saw pictures of your lovely wife Jill. The much better half of your union with Corey and the group. So there was some merging somewhere in there between the two worlds.

[Zach Dasher]

There was cross pollination. We were at the same event, one of the events, but we were just there for that one thing. And then. And they were there for, I think, another thing that coincided. So they doubled up. Yeah, but I'm back now. And back in North Carolina. We got the. We got the fort all set up. We're ready to roll.

[Jase Robertson]

That's good.

[Zach Dasher]

Good to be back. Good to be back. Jace, thank you for waving at me as you're driving over to.

[Jase Robertson]

Or flying over.

[Phil Robertson]

I was looking up cross pollination. Cross pollination, actually the transfer of pollen from one plant to another.

[Zach Dasher]

It's a metaphor. I use it as a metaphor.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I know, but I was thinking, isn't that what the cross of Jesus does it a cross pollinate? Well, it cross pollinates over global cross. The cross pollination you can always plan.

[Jase Robertson]

On J's to look at.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I thought.

[Jase Robertson]

I like that. I've never thought about that before, the cross pollination. But that's actually I've always thought about.

[Phil Robertson]

Jesus, you know, because we're so, you know, used to, I think Phil label me a germaphobe. And this is pre Covid because I just noticed every time I shook two or three hundred hands the next day I got sick. So I thought it had nothing to do with me being labeled a germaphobe. I thought why don't we just fist bump? Yeah, but then people don't like that. And even two or three times at my last event, they put out the fist bump. I put out the hand and then they went to the hand and I went to the 5th and it was like I had my.

[Jase Robertson]

And then you're collapsing your hand over their fist.

[Phil Robertson]

And then it got so awkward that whatever encounter we thought we were going to have did not end well. But my point was Jesus was like the. What is the opposite? Like the anti contagion in that he would not only not like he would touch a leper. Not only would he not get leprosy, but he was contagious in a positive way.

[Jase Robertson]

He was the cross, a spiritual contagion.

[Zach Dasher]

You just touched the hem of his garment and you found healing.

[Phil Robertson]

Yes, that's what I mean. So it's like, that's why if you have germaphobe tendencies, Jesus is truly your answer. Because it's like the anti gene and pollination of oh, don't cough on me. And you're like, oh, Jesus, please cough on me, because then I'll no longer cough on me. Yeah, I think it's kind of cool.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, and let's face it, the whole going through Covid thing, as a culture and as a nation, we saw the extreme versions of people so fearful about somehow getting something that it turns out most people are going to get anyway, because that's the nature of a virus like that, that we saw that and thought, oh, I don't want to be that person with the triple mask and the, you know, face shield and.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, right. Yeah. Now they even still people I see today. But, you know, that's why I love 2nd Corinthians 3:18. If you want to know whether Jesus was pro mask, he's like, we all with unveiled faces reflect the Lord's glory. Which is where we left off. Look at that.

[Jase Robertson]

Look at the segue. Jace gets the Segway Award today.

[Phil Robertson]

So he goes water to wine. And it says, this was the first of his miraculous signs, which I believe that was addressing the legalistic mindsets of the planet.

[Jase Robertson]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

Because of all things, he turned water into wine. The fact that that's a controversy is really a sad depiction of a lot of organized religions. It's supposed to be a beautiful thing. It's like God's party. Hey, for all you party people, God's got a party. That's awesome.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And it's actually involving wine. But what that represents is. I brought up Zach. We didn't talk about this last podcast, but that illustration that he used when he said, you don't pour new wine. Wine into old wine skins because it burst. I feel like this is the. That's the big transition.

[Zach Dasher]

I was thinking that is. I didn't bring it up either. I had the same exact thought.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, well, there it is. So when he gets to verse 12 of John 2, which is where we're at after this, he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brother and his disciples. There he stayed a few days. And I think this is significant when it says it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, which is, if I'm not mistaken, the same event where he died on the cross.

[Jase Robertson]

Correct.

[Phil Robertson]

And so when you start filling all.

[Jase Robertson]

And we know there were at least three trips there because he did three years of ministry and he's going every.

[Phil Robertson]

Year, which I said last time. And I'll say again, you know, when you get to the Book of Revelation, I'm going down a rabbit hole here, or some people call a bunny trail.

[Jase Robertson]

Is that what somebody said on your.

[Phil Robertson]

I heard somebody speaking, and he said, I'm going to go down a bunny trail. And I thought, well, now I know the difference. In a redneck Christian and a yuppie Christian, the redneck goes down a rabbit hole and the yuppie goes down a bunny trail.

[Jase Robertson]

The bunny trail sounds way too cutesy. You're right. I can't call it that.

[Phil Robertson]

Come on. I was like, where are you from? I missed his whole point of the bunny trail.

[Zach Dasher]

If you're going on a bunny trail, you're. You're frolicking. And that's not what we're not.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, is that a chocolate buddy.

[Zach Dasher]

Or an actual we're going out of.

[Phil Robertson]

Town type of person that when I see a hole in the ground, you're.

[Jase Robertson]

Curious about what made it?

[Phil Robertson]

I'm not just curious. I'm going in. I'm going to see what's down at the bottom. And I've told this before on the podcast, but one of the scariest moments of my life is when I submerged myself under a beaver hut and came up. Because I saw it on that movie, Jeremiah Johnson, when he hid, they were after him.

[Jase Robertson]

The Indians were after him.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, yeah. And so he did that. Now, when he came up, which I don't know how they did that scene. When he came up, the similarities were, you know, he didn't have a light. So I was thinking when I watched that movie, because I had already done that, when you go up, if you ever want to try this, you need to have a flashlight in your hand because it's dark. Because when I came up.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, they don't have lights in there.

[Phil Robertson]

When I came up, here's what I heard.

[Jase Robertson]

Which is not good in the dark.

[Phil Robertson]

No.

[Jase Robertson]

Anytime you hear that. No.

[Phil Robertson]

And I mean, I could have drowned in between, you know, and now I just. So I got out of there.

[Zach Dasher]

What a way to go.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I mean, I don't think the beaver would kill you, but I do have sharp teeth.

[Jase Robertson]

They can cut trees. I mean, I don't want that anywhere.

[Phil Robertson]

Near My, I mean, I've been bitten by a beaver.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And. But, you know, a few days I got over it. But I, you know, I used to catch them and so be careful what you're. What you're going after.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

As you catch something that doesn't want to be caught in the wilderness.

[Jase Robertson]

I was. We were deep sea on a trip one time, and these guys would dive down and spear fish, which was amazing to watch them. We would be snorkeling on the top and so I could see them down there spearing these tuna. And they would just go down there on the bottom. We're in the Gulf and they're down there on the bottom. And they would just go in a hole and disappear. Like, you know, and they're probably, I don't know, 100 foot down where we were just watching them. And I thought, what kind of fool on the bottom of the ocean goes down, just disappears in a hole? And they'd come out, they'd have a lobster or something. I was like, yeah, look at these guys.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, what I was going to say, we never got to the actual rabbit hole.

[Jase Robertson]

Sorry, that was another rabbit.

[Phil Robertson]

But I was just. I look at the Bible from the filter of Jesus, you know, because of passages like Hebrews one where he starts off saying, in the past God spoke in various ways and, you know, he brings up the prophets, but he's like, in these last times he's spoken to us through his. So and then that chapter two, which is one of my favorite chapters in the whole Bible, Hebrews 2, because it's all about why God became a human. I mean, he starts calling his family, he starts tying in the spiritual forces in the heavenly realms with Jesus becoming an actual man, not only to defeat the spiritual forces of evil, but to rescue humans. And he winds up in that famous passage where he destroys the work of the evil one, which is the spiritual forces in the heavenly realms that happen to come to earth via the devil. But by his death, which is. It's not like we're jumping the gun. John is like given a vision of what's going to happen. Like, as he's writing, everything is leading to. It gives you a picture of something, even the conversations to what's fixing to happen. But he's also using the fulfillment of what happened in the past to come to this point.

[Jase Robertson]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

And so that. Based on me saying that and getting that out. Right. So when I read Revelation 1:5, and of course now we're jumping to the very end, the last book, but it starts talking About Jesus. And it says, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler of the kings of the earth. But watch how he depicts him here. He says to him who loves us and has freed us. Well, because when I hear the word Passover, I think freedom. When you go back to that story and the new Exodus and God liberating this chosen nation from slavery, I think freedom. So we tend to think when we start reading in John one way, in the beginning, he's the one that went back and said, okay, in the beginning was the Word. And words were with God. You go back to the beginning, it's like, well, God made the heavens and the earth. And then he spoke. The Holy Spirit was hovering over the water. So you're kind of seeing God in his form speaking the Spirit hovering and creation happening.

[Zach Dasher]

These stories of the martyrs, we need to know them, we need to hear them. They need to sink into our soul because the church is being persecuted.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And it's been that way since the beginning. I mean, our original forefathers in the faith, the ones that Jesus built our church upon, were martyrs. And so there's a book that's out, it's called when faith is forbidden. 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. And Todd Nettleton wrote it. He's the voice of the martyrs radio host. And what he did was he's traveled to these restricted nations is what they're called, because they're unsafe and they're unsafe for Christians. But he's been doing these journeys for 20 years. He's got amazing stories along this pathway of people he met that not only inspired him but, but also will inspire us. So we don't want you to miss out on the opportunity to be inspired by these remarkable stories. And you can request your free copy of When Faith Is Forbidden today by calling 844-463-4059. That's 844-463-4059, or you can visit vom.org unashamed. That's vom.org unashamed. We want you to get involved and get inspired by book.

[Phil Robertson]

Then. So all of a sudden we've gone one chapter and he starts talking about, well, it's Passover time. And you start thinking, oh, how is this going to relate back there when God used blood and, and the signs that he did to liberate his people. And you remember the parting of the Red Sea and the whole story leading them to the promised land. So I said all that to say, he's freed us from our sins. So this is Jesus not only fulfilled and gave freedom, like you go back to the Old Testament, freeing a people from some kind of earthly kingdom and dominion, but now he's like freeing humanity from sin itself and the work of the devil itself from death itself. You Remember in Hebrews 2 it says he held people slavery by their fear of death, in slavery by their fear of death. Don't you think it's interesting?

[Jase Robertson]

Very interesting.

[Phil Robertson]

So then he says, and who has made us to be a kingdom? And priests. Well, what did priests do? They worked in the temple, right? As go betweens between God and man to serve his God and Father. To him be glory and power forever and ever. Amen. Then he has the Daniel quote and then I wanted to get to verse 8. So then Jesus says through John's vision, I am the alpha and the omega. So that would be like saying A, I'm the A and Z. But here's a point I want to make because then he clarifies that say says the Lord God, who is, who was and who is to come the Almighty. Which I think that's why John wrote this the way it is, because you're reading and you're looking back and seeing how he's fulfilling the whole plan of God from the beginning, but you're also looking forward to what he's fixing to do. And I think the part missed is the letters in between in modern day America, because he is, which is why he has all the seven I am statements. And so a lot of people, my whole point of this rabbit hole is yes, we're going to look back to what the temple did in the Old Testament and we're going to look forward to what Jesus redefined as the temple, as him being the temple, given human beings his spirit, which we're going to get into in John 3 he introduces this idea of the Spirit and becoming the dwelling place of God. And so if you factor in that Jesus, who was, who is to come and who is. So right now we're in the who is Jesus? Who is. It's the in between, the Alphabet of, of earth.

[Jase Robertson]

Right. And let me go back to your point because I love it that when the, when the people of enslaved in Egypt, who were the people of God but just didn't know it yet, were when they came out. It's very interesting because Lisa and I just talked about this yesterday at our marriage thing when we did our talk together, there was a cloud that guided them. By day it was a cloud. At night that cloud would be fire so they could see. So they literally had a pathway to where their freedom was now taking them. And it was taking them ultimately to the tabernacle and later the temple in the promised land. Everything that he had told Abraham 400 years earlier, they were going into this. Is this free now you're in the presence of God lifestyle. What's interesting is, Jason, an entire generation of people, 40 years, they could not. They couldn't escape. They kept looking back. In spite of the cloud, in spite of the fire, in spite of the promises, they kept saying, we're hungry.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, we want to go back. And so he said, okay, you're going to wander around for 40 years until this entire generation figures out that the way forward is in my presence. And so I think it's interesting that was a picture of an Old Testament story, but that's exactly what it is. Today. We're not just escaping sinful desire and sins effects on us. We are into the presence of God, which is a completely different existence. And you can't keep looking back to live in the here and now. I mean, that. That's what they did. He says, don't do that. I mean, now you're with me. Holy Spirit lives in you now.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Zach Dasher]

That picture I was thinking of, we talk about that cloud, you know, God. God showed up in the Old Testament quite often as a cloud or in the form of smoke.

[Jase Robertson]

Yep.

[Zach Dasher]

When. Particularly when you're talking about God's presence, you know, smoke would fill the tabernacle, the temple. If you think about the time when he had the interaction with Abram. Or was it Abraham?

[Jase Robertson]

Abraham, yeah. Genesis 17 maybe.

[Zach Dasher]

I was thinking 15.

[Jase Robertson]

15, yeah. Yeah. But.

[Zach Dasher]

But it was the one where they cut the animals in half and they have the covenant. He puts Abram asleep and then the. The like a smoke goes through the divided animals, meaning that God's presence moved through the divided animals, which I think is the real story of Jesus. Is that what. What's happening in the Old Testament? It was always about God's presence. That never changes. Right. The problem with the Old Testament is that it was on. Not on the side of God. It was on the side of humans, us that we were the problem, always were. I mean, if you go back and read Genesis chapter three and you see like, who withdrew from who first. It was the Adam and Eve sin. They ate the fruit and then they were the ones that covered up. Initially they made fig leave coverings for themselves. They ran and they hid from the Lord. And then they heard the Lord God walking in the garden. And then God approached them. And that goes in line with that Romans 5 passage, that while we were enemies, Christ died for us. A lot of this language about being an enemy of God, I think we lose it sometimes in Western Christianity because we only see it as that God's mad at us. But we don't see the part that, no, we're enemies in our mind too. That's a big part of this Colossians. Paul says in Colossians we were enemies and alienated in our mind. So I think the trajectory of the Old Testament, if you read it and you never heard about Jesus, never heard about the God of the Old Testament, just. I'm just going to give you this book, Genesis, these books, Genesis to Malachi. Read it and tell me what you think. I think here's what you would come back and say. I think you would say this is not going to work. Not because of the God of the covenant, but because the ones he made the covenant with, these people, us humans, they are adulterous and they continue to rebel. Even like as you mentioned in the Exodus, even with the cloud guiding, even with the miracles, even with the manna falling from heaven, they're still trying to gather it all up. They're making golden calves. They're doing all the things like, what are you doing? That's what we do, by the way. So the problem is always in the problem of humanity and what's happening in the coming of Christ, the Messiah is that God is going to accomplish. His ultimate mission, is that he will dwell with his people despite human failure. Despite human failure, he is going to dwell with people and. And it will be accomplished in Jesus. So I think that is like a good backdrop as he's entering into this. This world, which we would know as Second Temple Judaism. He's entering into this world and he's going into the very epicenter in John Chapter two of their entire structure, their entire system, their entire way of life. Everything that they were about is in this temple. And that is exactly where Jesus is going. He's going.

[Jase Robertson]

So I want to give you two more pictures since we're there, because we just studied this. And in First Kings 8, whenever Solomon builds that first temple, it says that God came in a dark cloud to your point. And it said, now I will dwell in your temple. And that was that picture. Again, we would know later. But I love the idea it was a dark cloud because most of the time people make a decision where what is going on. You're in the darkest part of your life. The other one was a picture you don't think about very much. And that's in First Kings 18, when Elijah is on Mount Carmel and he's just had this great victory. And now he knows that God's going to bring rain because it hadn't rained in years. And so he. He gets down on his hands and knees and he won't even look. And he tells his servant, keep looking out over the Sea of Galilee. And so seven times the servant looks out, and on the seventh time, it said a cloud the size of a man's hand came out of the Sea of Galilee and then began to gather and of course brings rain. And it rained so hard that, I mean, you know, Elijah took off running and ran all the way back to Israel. And so I just think that idea again about the cloud, like you said, is the idea of the provision of God, the power of God, the interaction of God. And even when Jesus left here in Acts chapter one, remember what it said? A cloud hit him from their sight. And then the. The angel shows up and says, why are you looking this way? He's coming back the same way. So we're living in that, as Jace put it, that who is time frame of the Holy Spirit living in us. It's a really powerful study.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Jase Robertson]

That's good.

[Phil Robertson]

I wanted to bring this up. So in a prophecy given to Ezekiel, which, when we get to the Next chapter, chapter three, you know, most people go to Ezekiel 36 and 37, draw different conclusions based on whatever particular brand of evangelical group you're with, but we'll also go there. But what I wanted just to bring up, because I thought about how to do this cleverly, is in Ezekiel 40 through Ezekiel 48, it's all Temple language. And if I just went there and you read the headings. So like, I have a 1984 NIV. I've already said my thoughts on this. We've had way better translation since then. But in this, if you go to Ezekiel 40 and just read the little heading, it says the new temple area. And then like midway, you know, it has all these courts and gates. So you go to the end of chapter 40 and you'll see rooms for the priests, rooms for preparing sacrifices. Then at the end, the very end of 40, it just says the temple. And then in 41, it says, rooms for the priests. That whole chapter 42, chapter 43, is the one I wanted to read a little bit of. It says, the glory returns to the temple. And so if you just get a little sampling of it, in Ezekiel 43, verse 6, it says, while the man was standing beside me, now he's having a vision. So keep that in mind. I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. He said, son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. And the reason I'm reading this is when Jesus was having that conversation with. With Nathanael at the end of John 1, you remember what he said? He said, I'll tell you the truth. You'll see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So you go back and start reading this, you think, what is all this talking about? And look, it's much debate. There's people that actually have Ezekiel 40, 48 as like, yet to have occurred. Yeah, most people, yeah, I'd say the majority of the religious world, they're saying this is going to happen in a future destination. And the reason I'm going here is to say, it seems to me that John is going back saying, remember that vision that Ezekiel had about the temple? Well, it makes sense when Jesus goes into the temple, says, I don't like what this has turned into because you can see what it was supposed to be here in Ezekiel's vision. And when he says, I am the Temple, I mean, he doesn't say that exact phrase John throws in which we're fixing to read it. The temple he was talking about was himself. Was himself, and it would die and be raised. And Zach brought up a phrase that. What'd you call it? Second Temple.

[Zach Dasher]

Second Temple, Judaism.

[Phil Robertson]

Judaism. So I feel like we should explain that just because I brought up Ezekiel. And by the way, I didn't read all the other little paragraph heads. But if you do, you see this language in the New Testament, especially in Revelation, and I think it's important. So, like, chapter 43 in the second half talks about the altar. Chapter 44 talks about the Prince, the Levites and the priests. Just think Hebrews, how this is all going to make sense in the new temple. Chapter 45 talks about the division of the land, which you can think about what Jesus said in Matthew 28 when he said, go into all nations because God had chosen The Israelites. And there literally was boundaries of people who worshiped idols. And then God. God's promised land. Remember. Remember that? That was. This exodus resulted in promised land. Well, it literally was the earth. That's why when you have strange stories in the Bible, and we'll bring this back up when we get to John 3, but I'm going to give you a strange one I don't know if you've ever thought about. You remember when Naaman had leprosy and he went to God's, one of God's priests, and they said, now, this guy wasn't a part of the Israel nation. And they, He. They told him what to go do. You need to dip seven times. And we'll read that when we get to John 3. But go dip seven times in the Jordan river, which is where John the Baptist was baptizing people. It's just too much stuff.

[Jase Robertson]

Ford, we talked about.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, it's not. It's too much to be a coincidence.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So he goes and dip seven times. Well, he's healed. But I don't know if you remember that after that happened, he started. He said, here's what we're going to do. Start gathering up some dirt from here. And he literally. This is kind of. What was that old Western, the guy who carried the body, Lonesome Dove. It's kind of a lonesome dove moment. He's like, I'm just scaring the dirt back. I'm gonna haul this dirt back. Because he was demon. This land, there's something about this land. And he had been healed. And I think you're gonna see that fulfillment. When Jesus said, go into all nations, he, like, broke down the cause. He defeated the gods. And when Zach gave his little speech while ago about the whole history, one thing he didn't mention. But yes, man, sin. And man was the problem. But there was also these. These evil celestial beings roaming around. And I'm using it plural because Psalm 82 says it's plural. You know, angels. And even when you get to Second Peter and Jude, they talk about these angels who were held in gloomy dungeons and all that, you know, so it's like there's a celestial force that chose, just like humans, not to image God. And so it's kind of like man went in cahoots with these celestial beings. And then you have this dispersion of nations which God chose one. And so now we have that problem because it's now all nations outside of Israel where they're bowing down to whatever God that's out There. So it's like all these are.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, but to your point, those gods are bowing down to. I think this is very, very notable. These aren't like fake gods. These aren't like made up entities. These are actual real. The. The term would be eloims, not Yahweh, like little gods with lowercase g. In the. The divine realm. In the, in the. The divine council. There's a divine council.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. That's new theology that look, that I'm open to because. Was that what Zach's bringing up? I recently discovered just, you know, I don't know all the details. Maybe you can help me with this. But like in 2010, there was a lot of notable new transcripts found from the scrolls. And I'm not sure it was the Dead Sea Scrolls, but I was reading something about this. But it clarified and validated a lot of these. These Hebrew words used. And the one he's mentioning is. I think that's Psalm 82, isn't it? That you're.

[Zach Dasher]

What's mentioned in multiple. I mean, it's mentioned.

[Phil Robertson]

I know it's mentioned there. And I think maybe Deuteronomy 32, there's.

[Zach Dasher]

You could be a. Yeah. The idea though is the Elohim is.

[Jase Robertson]

Is.

[Zach Dasher]

Is a Hebrew word for God, not to be confused with Yahweh, which is the one true God, the. The supreme being. But there is this word eloims that's used throughout the Old Testament. Exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

It's also used as like morning stars, sons of God. And which, you know, it goes back to that, Genesis 6. I think the basic theology on this is that you have Genesis 2 and 3, man's rebellion. But then you have Genesis 6, which. It's like there's a celestial being, sons of God, rebellion in the God space, I guess. And so then they come down and somehow another get tied up with humanity.

[Zach Dasher]

They procreate with humans and create, think.

[Phil Robertson]

Goliath, you know, giant Nephilim.

[Zach Dasher]

They create these.

[Jase Robertson]

We talked about this with the fuzzy creature guys.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. Well, the more I've studied this.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

I think there's something to it.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And even you kind of see glimpses of it in the New Testament. But then you have this third rebellion, which is basically what God to choose a nation, which then the land became important because you had the Tower of Babel.

[Jase Robertson]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

And I really think there's something to that. It's like the evil powers. Then you had the earthly kingdoms developed, tied in with the God that. What Zach is referring to the little G. Gods who were didn't retain their place, you know, and then you have man's rebellion. So it seems like that's all working together. And then God chooses a plan to not only defeat the powers to defeat the gods, but also to redeem humanity, or at least have it offered.

[Jase Robertson]

So it's a New Year's Act, 2025. I have taken advantage of the opportunity to drop some lbs, as they say, to lose some weight. And I tried it on my own last year in 2024, but it didn't go so well. So I decided to bring in a partner. PhD weight loss. You have now joined the fray as well. And you're kind of just getting started into this.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, I'm just into it, but I'm already down about nine pounds.

[Jase Robertson]

Excellent. Our good friend Dr. Ashley Lucas is the founder of Ph.D. weight loss. You know, she reminded us 80% of dropping weight comes from what you eat. Dr. Lucas is a registered dietitian. She has a Ph.D. in sports nutrition and chronic disease. And I have to say, I've done a lot of diets through the years. And she and her team do the best job of explaining the science of weight, how it works with your relationship to food. The program teaches you what to eat, when to eat. If you're watching this on YouTube, this is me at the start of the journey. You can see some roundness there. But so far now, seven weeks in, I've lost 28 pounds. Feeling great. What I love about it, Zach, is there's no gimmicks, no pills, no shots, no side effects. They provide about 80% of your weekly food, which is going to be mainly your breakfast and lunch at no extra cost. So it's also a great economical way to do it as well. We want you to check it out. You've been wanting to lose a few LBs. Follow mine and Zach's lead. Join us on our weight loss journey. You can schedule your one on one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900 or you can visit my PhD weight loss dot com. That's 864-644-1900 or my PhD weight loss dot com. Tell them how and Zach sent you.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, I mean, you see, you definitely see it in the Tower of Babel because, yeah, Genesis 6, where you have the, the. The sons of what's the word? I think the term is the men of renown is the phraseology in the scripture. Men of renown. Same word in Hebrew used in Genesis 11 when it talks about, let's go make a name for ourselves. Let's build a tower to heaven so that we can make a name for ourselves and not be scattered. So Michael Heiser points this out in his book the Unseen Realm that what he proposes is that whatever created the Nephilim with the sons of God coming into the women and having sex with these earthly women creating this, these Nephilim, this is something that happened like again it wasn't like a one time event. It happened, it created whatever however horrible it was pre flood, it got really bad because of this. Then it happens again in Genesis 11, which if you think about Genesis 11, like up until Genesis 11 there were, there weren't any nations that wasn't a thing. Like nations were, were instituted by God at the Tower of Babel because of what they were trying to accomplish. And God says I'm going to, I'm going to scatter them and I'm going to put these, these nations under these, these Eloims who ended up, they end up worshiping these foreign gods, the these, these created beings that God had, Yahweh had created. And then very next chapter, that's when God pulls his portion that Genesis 12, that's when God pulls his own people, which was Israel. And then the whole flow of redemptions, you know, continues from there. But if you think about all of this like where does it all begin? It all began in the Garden of Eden when heaven and earth were together. When there it wasn't a separation of, of the divine heavenly realm and earth. It was, everything was according to God's will. It was being enacted. That's why when Jesus teaches us to pray, what does he say? We pray for thy will to be done. Where on earth? Well how? Well, just like it is in heaven. That's. Heiser points this out. It's, it's Edenic language. It's returning back to Eden. And so the temple is a key part of this because the temple became that, that kind of prototype place where God would live. Because God lives in, you know, we live in our house. What does God have? Well, he lives in his house. Where's his house? It's the temple. And what Jesus is doing here in John 2 is he's about to really expand our understanding of what it means to be the house of God. He's going to obliterate the whole thing that we thought. And by doing so he's actually going to destroy Second Temple Judaism, which is why Second Temple Judaism isn't even a thing anymore. Why? Because there's no second temple. The first temple was destroyed in 586 by the Babylonian invasion. Second temple went down in 80, 70. There is no third temple.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, and that's where we come in. I want to mention that because Jay's brought Ezekiel into it. Exactly. When Ezekiel's having these prophetic visions is the time frame Zach just mentioned. It's right. It's coming out of the Babylonian captivity. And so the second temple gets built. And so that's the. Everything you read about in privates. You got to remember something. Here's where people make a huge mistake when it comes to the Bible. There has to be a then and there before there's a later. I mean those were being spoken into something in the moment. In the moment. That's when that second temple was being built. It was the same temple that would be renovated for almost 50 years prior to Jesus coming. That's what Herod and the whole renovating of the second temple, but little good it did them because as I just said, the whole thing was wiped out in AD 70. But instead of waiting on what was read in Exodus and then and there in the second temple, instead of waiting on that, we're saying it's already here. I mean that's the difference where we.

[Zach Dasher]

Are, a lot of difference. And so what Jesus is going to do like the Mount of Olives, for example, in Mark 13 and Matthew 24 or 25, when he's going to like make this prediction that the temple structure is coming down, you have to understand Deuteronomy 12, it lays out the case that, that if there's going to be a sacrifice, that that has to happen in the temple. And that's where the priesthood is located. In the temple. Everything is centered. If you gotta just put, put this in your mind for a second when we talk about the temple of the Sec. The second temple, which was being expanded, I think it was called the Herodian expansion. The entire Old Testament system is anchored and centered in this structure that was initially built by Solomon and then destroyed and then rebuilt. The whole system is there. If that thing goes down, then there is a major problem. Because now the issue, this is the point that the Hebrew writer makes. There's no sacrifice for sin anymore. Like there's not because you don't have a priesthood, you don't have a sacrificial system, you don't have a temple. Like the whole system can't bear the weight of it. And, and it just. So I think what Jesus is establishing here when he says, hey, destroy this temple and I'll rebuild it in three days, talking about his body. I mean, I don't, I don't think, I think we got to see this. Not as this isn't some add on in the New Testament. No, what we're talking about here is the centerpiece of the entire biblical narrative being realized in the person of Jesus Christ. That's what we're talking about here.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, no, that's good. You have something you were adding?

[Phil Robertson]

I was looking for, I was looking for that verse that said that we bear the name of Jesus in the New Testament. But when that was talking about name, but I couldn't find it. But. No, I agree. I'm glad we got into this because, you know, when I read those eight chapters in Ezekiel, I was like, I mean this, this is something that, from their perspective, when we read what's fixed to happen and you realize how they viewed the temple, this was like the most controversial. I mean, this would, in my mind, would it be too far to say? This would be like you go into the White House Congress and because we have different locations, but their, their hub was the temple and you going up there and trying to drive everybody out saying, hey, there we go, there's a new system here.

[Zach Dasher]

What. Think about when they killed him. What was their accusation against him? Right before they kill him, he said that he would destroy this temple and rebuild it in three days, which is not actually what he said. It's kind of interesting how they twisted it a little bit. What he says is, whatever that happened.

[Phil Robertson]

We need to find that verse. Where is that?

[Jase Robertson]

It's Acts 15.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, the bear the name of Jesus.

[Jase Robertson]

16, 17. After this I return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, I restore it, that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name.

[Phil Robertson]

That's what I was looking for because it goes back to what Zach said when in the Tower of Babel, when they said, let's make a name for ourselves. And so now you see how Jesus is having the opposite effect on that. He's creating a new creation within the creation that bears the name of Jesus, which goes into this imaging. It's for a purpose. Purpose now is God revealing himself in a temple where God and humans would meet, which we didn't talk about, which is awesome to think about, but it's also dangerous. There was danger involved in all of that. That's why you had the rules and you know, all the laws that were put into effect on how we're going to go about, go about this. So well, I mean, you do have.

[Zach Dasher]

To consider the shocking nature of what Jesus is doing here, because I would. I would point you to. At least Jesus and Stephen were both martyred for basically saying what Jesus is saying here. So that statement in John 2, you know, comes up again at the end of Jesus's life. Now, they do take it out. They do change what he said. Because I wanted to point this out. He doesn't say that he will destroy the temple. He never says that. What he says is Jesus answered them, destroy this temple. So he's saying, you, like, you guys can destroy this temple, and in three days, I'll raise it up. So if you notice that what Jesus is doing here, the posture, the position he's taken when it comes to the temple is you can tear this one down, and that's fine because I'm going to rebuild it in three days. They did not understand what he was talking about, which is why they said, it's taken us 46 years to build this temple. That's more talking about what Al mentioned. The temple had already been built. What they're talking about there is the expansion, the Herodian expansion.

[Phil Robertson]

But then the temple was destroyed in 80, 70. And I think where all the confusion happens, because the way I read it. So if you go to where some of the. The prophecies about the temple that people view as the second coming or the final coming.

[Zach Dasher]

Are you from the Old Testament?

[Phil Robertson]

No. In the Gospels, when Jesus.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. One is like, where's the Matthew 20:24?

[Phil Robertson]

Let me just, just read a couple stanzas of that because I do want to bring up something where all this controversy comes up. But Matthew 24, you know, here I am with all the language we've already talked about. You start reading. In verse one, it says Jesus left the temple and was walking away. So. So I just want to stop here before I keep reading. I'm not coming up with a narrative and then trying to make it fit. The reason we think like we do is because we're reading all these verses, right? And I mean, Jesus let. He didn't. He didn't just leave the. The garden or, you know, some town, or it just says, he left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.

[Zach Dasher]

So here's a question for you. What is the gospel? The way you answer that question has a lot of significance in how you live your life out. And we would argue, based on the teaching of Jesus in the Book of Mark, that that definition of the gospel should not be separate from The Coming of the Kingdom based on Jesus Words in Mark. Or talking about this on my new podcast called Not Yet Now. Would love to invite you guys to join. We're going to go through the series, this series on the Book of Mark. We launch every Tuesday and would love to have you guys be a part of it. So go check us out Not yet now podcast with Zach Dasher. You can find us anywhere. Podcast or heard the title again is Not yet now with Zach Dasher. Or you can check us out on YouTube as well. @ Dasher Zach. Z A C H the. At Dasher Zach. Zach. Hope to see you guys there.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, whatever was fixed to happen, that's what the context of the discussion, you know. Would you agree? I mean, it seems pretty simple to me, but. But I'm. I'm just telling you, people read this and go crazy. He says, do you see all these things? Well, what things? The temple and all its buildings.

[Zach Dasher]

The stones.

[Phil Robertson]

The stones, yeah. Or I think the arena.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, Mark 13's account of it. They actually say, look at these wonderful stones. Are these wonderful buildings.

[Phil Robertson]

So look. Then he says in verse two, do you see all these things? I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another. Every one will be thrown down. Now just hold it. When did that happen?

[Jase Robertson]

80, 70.

[Phil Robertson]

It happened. And this statement, if you buy, if you want to take it literally, it happened at A.D. 70. Now, I get it. There's a view of people out there that thinks everything happened in A.D. 70. And I'm not saying that, you know, immediately it terrifies people because they're like, oh, and the reason this.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, we're not saying that the second coming of Christ happened.

[Jase Robertson]

It's already happened.

[Phil Robertson]

No, but let me just make the point, because I want to. I want to at least say the reason people believe that, which I think is a legitimate reason, even though I disagree with their conclusion. Because then at some point he says, so I guess, what would that be? 36 at that time. So I'm. Now I'm in Matthew 24, but I've skipped down all the way down to the end. And it says, at that time, the Son of Man will appear in the sky. So people read that one thing. Well, it can't be talking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

[Jase Robertson]

It's got to become the second.

[Phil Robertson]

And I'm like, now, wait a minute. That doesn't necessarily mean that's factual, because.

[Zach Dasher]

What do you mean?

[Phil Robertson]

Well, they're saying that it can't be the destruction of Jerusalem because now you have Jesus appearing In the sky, right?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And they're like, well, which is it? So I will agree that that is a tough thing to wrap your head around. And I'm just trying to be totally transparent. I don't want to just tell you what I believe without giving you the other side. Because when I read that, I used to be confused by it. I thought, well, that sounds like when Jesus comes back. Now, I will say now, since I've been doing this for 40 years, walking with Jesus, I now have realized that part of the reason I think this is misunderstood is because people think he's way off and like, boy, it's going to take him a long time to travel back. But I've now realized that they're looking at that wrong. Because God, if you have. If you're an imperishable eternal being, you're no longer in space and time as we now understand it.

[Zach Dasher]

So let me. I like to share two things that support your point.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay.

[Zach Dasher]

One is in the Mark 13 account when they asked the question in verse three, as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple. So he's clearly talking about the temple here. Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, tell us when these things will be and what will be the sign when all these things are to be accomplished. And that's they're talking about, because he just said, all the temples coming down, all these stones are going to be turned over. Like, he just said that. And they're like, okay, well, when's that going to happen? That was their question, when's it going to happen? You skip down to verse 29, and he gives the answer to that. He says, so also, when you see these things taking place, you note at the end, you know, that he is near and at the very gates. Truly, I say to you, and this is the line, this generation will not pass until all these things have taken place. So in Jewish culture and in biblical literacy, a generation was understood to be about 40 years. Jesus said this 40 years before it actually happened. So I think, well, that's true.

[Phil Robertson]

But, Zach, I was going to say you went to mark 13. But even in Matthew 24, if you'll just let me keep reading, he says the same thing, but Matthew 24 is a little different. Well, hold on, let me just read it. Let me just read it. At that time, the Son of man, this verse 30 of Matthew 24, will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and glory. He will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens on the other. Now learn this lesson. He talks about the fig tree, but then in verse 33, even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Which is, I think, exactly what you just read. Now then, I think this is interesting. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. So just stop right there. So now when I see heaven and earth, you know what my first thought is? In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Then I think about the tabernacle or the temple. Well, what happened there? Heaven and earth was overlapping because God was making his presence known. And it was within the Jewish culture of. This is. Since you're my chosen nation. So now if you tie this in with John, chapter two, when. When he drives that temple out, which is the place heaven and earth meet God and humans meet. God's holy nation is set apart from all other nations. When you read the Matthew 24, I'm like, now Jesus became the temple, and then it's validated by his prediction that the temple that was. Even though it happened, what, 30 years later? 30 and change. That validates him being the temple.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So to me, it's a prophecy.

[Zach Dasher]

It's a good word, is vindication. And I think that's the Son of Man reference there.

[Phil Robertson]

You don't like validation?

[Zach Dasher]

I like validation, but I like vindication better because I like both. It's a stronger term of what's happening. Particularly when you read about the Son of Man coming in the clouds. Like the. To your point, we misinterpret that because we just go back and read Daniel 7 when it. Which is what? It's a reference of. And the picture in Daniel 7, the direction of the Son of Man in Daniel 7 is not the Son of Man coming to earth. It's not the second coming. It's the Son of Man going before the ancient of days to receive authority to rule over the nations he's receiving. It's the kingdom coming. So the language in Daniel 7 is not the language of. I think it's very clear. It's not the language of the end times, which is. It's the language of Christ coming before the ancient of days and receiving authority and dominion and an everlasting kingdom. That's why we say the kingdom is here now and to come, but it is here now. And so when you look at the language, and I use Mark 13 only because I think Matthew 24, there are some end times prophecies in Matthew 24. I don't think there's any end time stuff in Mark 13, so it makes it cleaner for the discussion. But when he says that. But basically the end is near. He says that several times in mark's account, Mark 13, the word end. If he was talking about the end times, he would have used a Greek term called eschatos, which is what we get our word eschatology from. That's not the word he uses. The word that he uses is the word telos, which is what we get the word teleology from, which. Which means intent, purpose, design. What's the end goal here? Like, if you ask me, what's your. What's the end here? What are you after? So what. What's happening in Mark 13 is he's saying like, like there's a consummate or there's an inauguration coming. There's something I gotta. I got something I'm trying to do here and I'm gonna do it. This is Jesus talking. It's really what he laid out in John 2, that you're gonna destroy the temple, you humans. And here's what's going to happen. Here's the purpose of the whole thing that you guys have missed it from the very beginning. Here's the purpose of the whole whole thing. I am going to live with humans. No, I'm going to live in humans. I'm going to be the cornerstone of the temple and all of. All of the believers, you guys will be the living stones built upon me. The cornerstone. That's the intention. That's the. Tell us. That's the design.

[Phil Robertson]

We're out of time. We're way over.

[Jase Robertson]

But man, the rabbit hole that we will continue to go down below. We'll pick it up here next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.

[Zach Dasher]

It.