Ep 1053 | Jase Adopts a Trick to Combat Spiritual Warfare & Why We Can’t Predict the End of Days

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode: Ep 1053 | Jase Adopts a Trick to Combat Spiritual Warfare & Why We Can’t Predict the End of Days
Release Date: March 7, 2025
Host: Tread Lively
Location: West Monroe, Louisiana

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1. Introduction to Gather25 and Spiritual Renewal

The episode kicks off with Phil Robertson declaring, “I am unashamed. What about you?” (00:01). Jase Robertson warmly welcomes listeners back and introduces the topic of the Gather25 event, a global church movement aimed at fostering worship and prayer across all seven continents (00:06).

Jase Robertson shares his experience of watching the Gather25 event with his wife, Jill, who attended the London session where Sadie spoke (00:26). He describes a profound moment of collective repentance and prayer for revival, highlighting the power of communal faith:

“...the whole building of probably, I don't know how many people, hundreds of people, just face down in complete silence before the Lord.” (01:08)

2. Understanding 2 Chronicles 7:14 and Its Application Today

Jase reflects on the verse from 2 Chronicles 7:14, emphasizing its transformative meaning when applied to believers:

“If my people who are called by my name humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and heal their land.” (02:00)

He interprets this as a call for those who bear the name of Jesus to lead the charge in seeking revival, rather than expecting a nation-wide repentance.

3. Revival Trends and Personal Testimonies

Phil introduces a Pew poll indicating a recent uptick in people embracing Christianity, a trend that has been declining for many years (04:30). Jase corroborates this with anecdotal evidence from their church, noting notable conversions such as the head of Wikipedia and RFK's running mate getting baptized (04:44).

Zach Dasher adds that these personal stories align with the podcast’s mission to disciple new believers, treating each episode like a sermon to responsibly teach and inspire listeners (05:49).

4. The Mystery of God’s Plan and Spiritual Warfare

The conversation deepens as Phil discusses Ephesians 1, referring to Paul’s mention of the mystery of God’s plan, which involves the power of God against all anti-God forces (06:48). They explore the concept of God seeking those who seek truth, highlighting the importance of active pursuit of spiritual understanding.

5. Personal Experiences and the Felt Presence of God

Jase shares a touching story of a newly converted couple disillusioned by their past in paganism. He explains how their experience of the "felt presence of the Lord" after embracing Jesus underscores the significance of Jesus fulfilling the role of the temple, allowing believers to experience God intimately (08:03, 11:02).

6. Temples and the New Creation

The Robertson family delves into the symbolism of the temple in John 2 and its fulfillment in Jesus. They discuss Jesus’ declaration of becoming the temple and the implications for believers as the new dwelling place of God:

“You will not see a temple in the city because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.” — Revelation 21:22 (18:37)

Phil emphasizes that believers, as the new temple, carry God's presence wherever they go, fundamentally altering their lives and their interaction with the world (16:02).

7. Nicodemus and the Concept of Being Born Again

Transitioning to John 3, the hosts introduce Nicodemus, a Pharisee seeking understanding from Jesus about entering the kingdom of God. Jesus explains the necessity of being "born of water and the Spirit," prompting deep theological discussions:

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” — John 3:16 (33:01)

Phil Robertson highlights the complexity of interpreting this passage and the various scholarly perspectives on its meaning, ultimately tying it back to the overarching theme of God’s eternal kingdom and the new creation.

8. The Eternal Kingdom and Its Implications

Zach connects the discussion to Daniel’s prophecies, reinforcing the idea of an eternal kingdom poised to overshadow all other earthly realms. They explore how Jesus' teachings and actions fulfill these prophecies, establishing a foundation for understanding the eternal nature of God’s kingdom (50:19).

9. Cliffhanger and Upcoming Discussions

As the episode approaches its end, the hosts leave listeners with a profound cliffhanger regarding the true meaning of being "born of water and the Spirit," setting the stage for the next episode to delve deeper into John 3:16 and its significance (55:28).

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Notable Quotes

• Phil Robertson (00:01): "I am unashamed. What about you?"

• Jase Robertson (01:08): “...the whole building of probably, I don't know how many people, hundreds of people, just face down in complete silence before the Lord.”

• Jase Robertson (02:00): “If my people who are called by my name humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and heal their land.”

• Phil Robertson (06:48): “We're constantly learning and growing, connecting the dots of the Bible.”

• Jase Robertson (08:03): “...until we came to know Jesus.”

• Phil Robertson (16:02): “If God has made his dwelling among you now and you've become the temple of the living God on Earth.”

• Phil Robertson (33:01): “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son...”

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Conclusion

In this episode of Unashamed with the Robertson Family, the Robertson family and their special guests explore profound themes of spiritual warfare, revival, and the eternal kingdom of God. Through personal testimonies, biblical exegesis, and engaging discussions, they encourage believers to actively seek God's presence and participate in the ongoing renewal of the church. The episode builds anticipation for the next discussion, promising deeper insights into the foundational Christian doctrine of being "born again."

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Note: This summary intentionally omits advertisement segments and non-content discussions to focus on the core message and teachings shared during the episode.

Transcript

[Phil Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Jase Robertson]

Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. Did you guys keep up with what Sadie was doing? I know I mentioned it in the previous podcast. Is gather25 you told us about.

[Zach Dasher]

I'm very curious. I didn't get to see any of it because I was busy doing events and stuff, but I'm very curious as to what happened.

[Phil Robertson]

This is the first I've heard of it.

[Jase Robertson]

First you've heard of it. But it was. We watched it. They. So it was Jenny Allen out of. I think she's had a watermark church. She actually goes to church with the Shanes. They were. They were part of it too. Shane and Shane.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, what is the gather 25? That. That. What is that?

[Jase Robertson]

Yes, a 25. 20, 25.

[Phil Robertson]

2000. Because I was like, yes. If I was going to try to gather everybody up, I'd shoot for more than 25.

[Zach Dasher]

That seemed like a low number.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

So they did the. The global church for. In 2025. So they were. I think they picked all seven continents. They had different places that they would have these events and kind of like 24 hours of worship, prayer.

[Zach Dasher]

And so there were different Christian leaders on all the continents of the earth at the same time.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

Okay.

[Jase Robertson]

And they all spread out. It was cool.

[Zach Dasher]

We watched it.

[Jase Robertson]

So Jill put it on. And so the Saturday was like the one. The event that Sadie was at was in London, which we left early because I would. I mean, I bet I was like, man, I wish I stayed. This look pretty awesome. But I was having a conversation with Jill about. I was working on my lesson because I taught. We're in the book of Mark at our church, and I was teaching him Mark 14. And I was working on it. I was trying to give her the lesson to get some feedback, and she's like, wait, wait, what's going on here? Because he had the event on the screen, what they were doing. I said, well, turn it up. She said, well, it is up. I said, no to turn the volume up. She's like, no, the volume's all the way up. I was like, I can't hear anything. She said, I know. That's why. That's why I wanted to watch it. And it was the whole building of probably, I don't know how many people, hundreds of people, just face down in complete silence before the Lord. And then one of the ladies got up that was on the worship team, I guess, and just started to lead the entire group in a prayer of renewal and asking God to come and asking for Revival. And it was such a powerful moment. I mean, me and Jill, like, Jill got on the floor and started praying. I was like, wait, what am I supposed to do? And so I got on the floor and we started praying. And. And it was such a special moment because he was praying a prayer of, like, repentance. And when I was in prayer, I. I had this thought. I've been praying for, like, the last 30 days about how does God want us to interact in culture and all these things I've been praying for. And I wanted to read you this verse that came to mind as I was in this posture of prayer, because, man, it was so powerful. I've heard this verse, like, so many times, but I never really heard it in this light as I was hearing it as I was praying. And this is answering the question of how do we engage in culture as Christians? And I've heard this verse read so many times, but I never heard it quite like this. Verse 14 of 2 Chronicles 7. If my people. If my people who are called by my name humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and heal their land. And I've heard this verse a thousand times, but I think I always thought that verse meant if, like, the nation would fall to her knees and repent, then God would heal us. But he doesn't say that. He says, if my people, those who are called by my name. He's talking to people who bear the name of Jesus. Like, if we bear the name of God, we are the ones that are called to humble ourselves and pray and seek his face and turn from our wicked ways. Then he says he'll hear from heaven and will forgive our sin and heal our land. And it was like this moment, guys. I'm telling y'all. Like, I. I think there's, like, this global movement to starting of, like, renewal and revival. I really believe it. And I. And there were seeds of that this weekend. So if you got a chance, y'all need to check that out. Gather 25. I think there's some of the. That. Some of the. Of us on YouTube, but it was. It was powerful. And Sadie spoke at one, by the way. She spoke at the one in London.

[Zach Dasher]

Which is pretty awesome.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I did see a new poll. Who's. Who's the group that does the poll?

[Jase Robertson]

Pew. I saw that.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. That was, like, the first time and, what, 100 years? No, I don't know how many years.

[Zach Dasher]

It was a lot of years.

[Phil Robertson]

A Lot of years that there were actually an uptick in people putting their faith in Jesus.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

I don't know how they worded it, but.

[Zach Dasher]

Right. They been in a decline.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, it's like it's been in a decline and it stopped. And so like that's what's been interesting. Like we, we've been seeing it at our church and I wondered if it was anecdotal. I don't think it is because I think that re. The what the what you just mentioned. I saw the head of Wikipedia, I think was just, just came to christ. I saw RFK's running mate who was like big in the Green party in Silicon Valley, just got baptized. I mean you keep hear Russell Brand, you keep hearing these stories and we're seeing that in our church. And I'm like, what, like what's happening here? I, I really believe it, that like something is happening. And I think that like, what is interesting is that that like renewal and revival has always, always came after individual people, like just getting on their face before the Lord and repenting of sin. You know, all the Great Awakenings came out of a movement of repentance and of God's people. And so I think we're in like this really interesting time of. I don't know if you guys are seeing that in the unashamed land. Are you seeing revival in your areas? But.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, and certainly the people that I've had conversations with when I'm out on the road of just people who connected with us on our podcast and they tell me their stories, their own personal walk and finding of Christ. But then what we're providing here in these Bible discussions is in essence a discipleship training program for what it means for new believers. And I take that. I mean, we're very humbled to be able to do that. I tell people all the time, you know, even the three of us without dad have a lot of combined experience of studying and teaching the word of God. And so we take that as a huge responsibility. I mean, we like to have fun. This is a Robertson style Bible study, but at the same time, what we're doing with the scripture and how we're approaching it, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but we all speak publicly as well. I treat our podcast and our time together just like I would if I was presenting a sermon or teaching a series at a church or whatever. You know, it's the same.

[Phil Robertson]

We're constantly learning and growing, connecting the dots of the Bible. I know some of this gets deep sometimes but you know, like, like we said last podcast this, you know, even Paul called this a mystery.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, the whole plan of God in Ephesians 1, he said this was a mystery and it was kept hidden. And there, there is a. Something to be said in the Bible about the God versus the little g. Gods.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And the power of God against all other powers that are anti God. And so it is confusing because even his disciples didn't get it till after the fact. And for us it should be easier because now after the fact you can go back and connect all the dots. But it is a mystery that is revealed in Jesus to God's plan. So.

[Zach Dasher]

And he seeks us. He's seeking, but he seeks those who are seeking truth. That's the interesting part about it. He is the one doing the seeking and he's looking for those who are looking for answers.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, it's just like, yeah, if you turn your face, he says, seek my face. Seek my face. And that was interesting, that phrase, because yesterday at church I preached on the right of coming out off of Judas's Jesus, prophesying that Judas would, would sell him out. And then he immediately, in Mark, he immediately turns to the 12, the rest of the 12, the other 11 says, hey, guess what? All of you are going to leave me and I'm going to walk that road alone. And they all did leave him. And he was completely abandoned. And he suffered a cruel death on a Roman cross. He walked the hill of Golgotha all by himself. And we all abandoned him. Everybody abandoned him. And we had this moment in church where like we all got on our face. Like people were like in the aisles on their knees repenting of sin. And later that afternoon, a couple came over to meet for. To our house. And me and Jill were just praying with them and talking with them. And this is a couple that recently became a Christian, both of them, and they just moved here. And she grew up pagan, so she grew up in like more of a Wiccan culture. She said, I didn't go to the doctor growing up. She grew up in England. She said if I got sick, I went to a witch and. And they would perform whatever. He grew up very kind of New age mysticism. And one of the things that he said to me yesterday that hit and it goes into what we've been talking about, particularly with this whole temple language in John chapter two, because I think like, I mean, Jason, you said it like that was complicated. We got deep in the last podcast. Agree. But you say why, why does it matter? Here's what matters. He said, he said, I'm going to tell you guys. What we have seen and why we came to know Jesus is that in all of our pursuits in, in witchcraft and all of our pursuits in New Age mysticism and all of our pursuits that we've, we've gone after, we've never felt, we've never had a term. He called the felt presence of the Lord, the felt presence of the Lord until we came to know Jesus. And, and that happened here recently. And I thought, man, that's why this matters. Because what's happening In John chapter 2, when Jesus is claiming that he's going to rebuild this temple, you destroy this temple and I'll rebuild it in three days. The reason why that matters is because as Jace said in the previous podcast, the temple is the place where God's presence is known. The temple is the place where God and man meet. The temple is the place where heaven and earth meet. And so for Jesus now to embody that and to become that temple and then to send us the Holy Spirit, as he's going to tell us later in the Book of John, it's ultimately he is the way that we experience the felt presence of God. I mean this, I think this conversation has profound significance and I think it is directly related to the renewal and the revival movement that I think is happening and beginning right now across the entire globe.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Jase Robertson]

Well, because the point is, of the whole scripture is God is going to make us home with man. Like, that's the big. That's the big meta narrative.

[Phil Robertson]

And the. And the. And the reality is he's doing that now. Come, be a part of it. Join us. Be a member of the kingdom of heaven on earth in this moment. So it makes people realize this is what God is doing now through Jesus.

[Zach Dasher]

Exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

There's a purpose here. Because I think if you don't put all these dots together, you tend to just be sitting there, as I coined one time, waiting for a ride.

[Jase Robertson]

Yes.

[Phil Robertson]

You know, which is why I think the churches are so boring sometimes, you know, and so judgmental, because you're just like, we're just waiting on a ride. This place is.

[Zach Dasher]

You know, when you're leaving the airport. Jays. And you look around and there's people waiting on their Ubers, they're looking at their phones. They're just like, oh, if I could only get a ride.

[Phil Robertson]

If I could just get a ride. That's how hitchhiking became a thing.

[Zach Dasher]

Exactly. Because you got to be on the move.

[Phil Robertson]

I just need a ride. Well, what are you doing while you're hitchhiking? Nothing. So that's why when I read that Ephesians 2, if God has made his dwelling among you now and you've become the temple of the living God on Earth, that. That your life would look drastically different.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Wherever you go.

[Jase Robertson]

It's funny because the picture. If you, if once you start to see this, I'm. I will go ahead and tell you, once you start to see this in the scripture, you're not going to be able to unsee it. You won't, because you'll see it. This thread is all the way through. And it's not. You don't have to figure out all these crazy, like, oh, this means. Oh, these are Blackhawk helicopters, and these are this. And you don't have to do all.

[Phil Robertson]

That stuff, which is a reference to people taking some verses in Revelation and have them equated to Black Hawk helicopter. Literally.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Blackout helicopter.

[Zach Dasher]

Rumors of wars, you know, certain countries. Right, right. Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And you're trying to figure that out. And, and, and I, I mean, that's why everybody who tries to prophesy the second Coming, who has given a date on it, has got it wrong so far. Like every single person who has said this is the date that it's going to be. Unless the dates in the future, all the ones that have gone before us, they've given us the dates, none of them have come true. We're trying to, it seems so, Zach.

[Phil Robertson]

I would also argue why there's so much argument about when the dates of these letters were written, because a lot of people who have a different view of an actual temple being set up, they tend to date the Bible way later.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

The problem with that is then you have the most significant event that happened to Israel since I would argue the parting of the Red Sea and they were liberated from Egypt, the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70. Well, then if you put these dates way later, then you now have the most significant event, which was the destruction of the physical temple in AD 70 never being mentioned in the Bible, which would be.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. How was it. Why was it never mentioned when it had been pointed to so much?

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, the literal temple was destroyed in AD 70 and the Bible never mentions it.

[Zach Dasher]

That's right.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, then I'm. I'm not a smart fellow, but I'm thinking, I guess this was written before that happened.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And I think that the picture, though, that you get once you start to go down this trail, is it. It's the picture is not the song. The songs that we sang growing up, at least some of them, that shaped our imagination. I was thinking of one the other day, which I love this song, by the way. How Great Thou Art. I love that song. But there's a line in it that says, when Christ shall. Shall return with shots of acclamation and take me home, what joy shall fill my heart. It really. The real picture in Revelation is that when Christ shall come with a shout of acclamation and make his home, because heaven is coming back. Heaven and earth are coming together. That's that picture that you get when you get to the end of the Bible about the. The new city where God's going to make us home with humans. Now he says the dwelling place of God is. Is. Is with man, and God makes his. His home with. With us. And I think it's such a, like a real, like, tangible, beautiful, like, picture of, of the. The ark, the narrative arc. It's almost like we're being restored back to Eden.

[Phil Robertson]

No, we are. And I'll read the verse. I've read it many times with that. Revelation 21:22 says, I did not see a temple in the city because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. I'm not sure how you square through that. Yeah, we've read it before, but I just. I don't know what you're going to do with that look, especially when it's so good news that God has chosen, despite all our flaws and our past, to live with human beings in such an intimate setting down deep into your inner soul and being, and it makes these. The spiritual warfare aspect of it, way more real. The other night when I went to that event, I shared on the last podcast, you know, I dare say there was a little voice in me saying, you represent the Lord God Almighty. So it wasn't about me overcoming temptation as much as it was, I need to share Jesus with these people as an ambassador of Christ and my partnership with God in this vocation and ministry of sharing Jesus to an earth filled with people who need it.

[Zach Dasher]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

So I did it. Which I noticed. Oh, by the way, I also did way less sinning because I was busy doing something for the Lord. And I think it's okay to say that because you're like, well, you can't technically do anything. No, but I'm. I'm partnered with the Holy Spirit. And when you're in a setting where there's a lot of sin going on, the best thing you can do is start talking about Jesus. Yeah, because it draws a line in the sand.

[Zach Dasher]

Right. Because we're cutting. We're trying to cut away wasted time. Everything becomes about the expediency of telling as many people about Jesus as possible. You realize we're only in this phase of it for a period of time. You know, we got to make the biggest impact we can think about.

[Jase Robertson]

Think about this. The verse that we're in, that we're. We were talking about last. Last podcast. We're in it again. I want to read something to you, and then I want to. I want to make a point, and I want to read another verse to you. This is in John, chapter two. This is what we're talking about. Jesus answered them because he turns over the temples, the. The tables in the temple. They said, what. What's your authority? And this is his answer. Destroy this temple, and I will raise it up in three days. They replied, it's taken us 46 years to build this temple. Are you going to raise it in three days? But the temple that he had spoken of was his body. And after he was raised from the dead. His disciples recalled what he said then. They believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. Now this verse sits right in the center of John or at the end of John, chapter two. It's kind of like a key part of the whole story. And to not deal with this is. Is to lessen its significance. You say, well, is this just some kind of weird thing that's in the Bible that you know? Because there are things in the Bible that we read that, like, highly debated maybe, or very. Like no one really knows what means, and it's kind of doesn't. Yeah, we all have different opinions on this, but does it really matter? Here's why I think it matters. If you look in John and Mark 14, listen. Listen to how much this mattered, what Jesus just said. This is how much it mattered. This is in Mark, chapter 14, verse 55. The chief priest and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death. But they couldn't find any. So they want to kill Jesus here. They're looking for evidence. Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree them. Some of them stood up and gave this false testimony against him. So whatever this false testimony that's about to come, it's. It's of tremendous significance because this is the testimony that got Jesus killed. Verse 58. What was the false testimony? Here it is. We heard him say, I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days build another not made with hands. That's the testimony that got Jesus killed. So you say, why does it matter? Did it matter what Jesus said here? Yeah, because what he said in John 6, I mean, John 2 was. That was the accusation that was brought up when they almost condemned him to death. It was the accusation they brought against him. The reason why they killed Jesus was because of what he said in John 2. Now they misrepresented him because he never said, I will destroy this temple. He said, destroy you destroy this temple and I'll rebuild it in three days. He never said he would destroy it. They said that. By the way, this is the same exact thing. They got Stephen stoned. In the Book of Acts, he talked about the temple and basically said the same thing that Jesus said. So I don't think we can look at this text in John 2 and say, oh, this is just a weird thing that's in there that doesn't really have any central, you know, preference or priority in us understanding the entire entirety of the Bible. This is one of those things you Just got to agree to disagree. No, it's a centerpiece. Well, the day is coming soon, guys. April 15th, are y'all ready to pay your taxes?

[Zach Dasher]

Ooh, I'm so excited, Jay.

[Phil Robertson]

I'm going to put that song on my playlist. I'm the tax man.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, if you have unfiled taxes or if you can't pay the irs, I'm excited to tell you about our sponsor, Tax Network usa. Al, what about you? You ever had issues with the irs?

[Zach Dasher]

I have, Zach, and I wish I had known about Tax Network usa, because I took them on by myself and it didn't turn out so well for Al.

[Jase Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

It'S a theme line of the whole.

[Zach Dasher]

And Jason, I both believe, and we talked about this on previous podcasts, that the reason John put this in, because I think James, you and I both believe this is the same incident that happens at the end of the chronological gospels. But John had a reason why he put it here. And look, because the reason I think that is because right after that, Zach, in verse 23, it says now, while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover feast, many people saw miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. That's a broad statement of a lot of miracles he did that caused a lot of people to look at it. But why did John include just seven out of all the thousands of miracles that Jesus did, there was. He was making a point throughout of his entire day.

[Phil Robertson]

But one of them has the following text. Now I'm gonna have to go look it up after this happened with. Remember that time when Jesus said they were asking about authority, same question. Because this was about signs and I mean one of the other gospels. And then they have this scene, you know, with the. Of him. This is right after he cleared the temple. And then they question his authority. And then he gave that illustration about John's baptism. Was it from heaven or from men?

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So I'm saying that seems to fit more with the John 2. But why are we bringing up John the Baptist? Because he happened right off the bat. But I don't know, maybe, maybe it could be just a.

[Zach Dasher]

It could be. But, but my point is, as he, as you're looking that up, he laid out a very stark narrative. And, and we're about to get into Nicodemus, which I think again is very much on purpose because this is a leader in Israel that's going to come into the situation now with Jesus. And he doesn't understand either. I mean, it doesn't understand at all what's happening. And when Jesus lays it out to him, he's stunned.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

To hear what. What Jesus is actually here for. Did you find it?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, it's Mark 11. So this is quite a ways into Mark.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. Because mark's only got 16 chapters.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So look, so. So mark 11, 12 is where Jesus clears the temple.

[Zach Dasher]

Yep.

[Phil Robertson]

So there is one little scene in between the withered fig tree. But then it says in verse 27, they arrived again in Jerusalem. And while Jesus was walking in the temple courts the chief priests. So it's right after he cleared the temple, it says, and who gave you authority to do this? And Jesus replied, I will ask you one question. Answer me and I will tell you by what authority I'm doing these things. John's baptism, was it from heaven or from men? Tell me. Of course they discussed it, said, well, if we say from heaven, he'll say, well, why didn't you believe him? But if we say from men. They feared the people, for everyone held that John really was a prophet. So they answered, jesus, we don't know. Of course, I really wanted to hear Jesus answer here and like his basis for making the answer.

[Zach Dasher]

But he said they gave him a jin. Psyche answer. We're going to circle back and get back to you on that, tell you.

[Phil Robertson]

By what authority I'm doing these Things because it would have been helpful. My whole point for bringing that up is because now we make a transition or John does, and like verse where. Where did we leave off? Verse 23, when he says, now, while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover feast, which I think is an important context for what's fixed to happen at the Passover feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, this is interesting.

[Phil Robertson]

He did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man. And I'm not going to stop there just because I think it matters the next verse, because it's like, now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish Council. I think he falls into the category that everyone else does. Also that Jesus is not trusting you for answers, and rightfully so, because if you were going to trust anyone as a religious people in this day, Nicodemus would probably be high on the list because he was a member of the Jewish ruling council. And so they get into quite the discussion after that. So I don't know if you want to stop and talk about that, what that means about him.

[Jase Robertson]

Not.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, I was just curious to what y'all thought about that because that's an interesting way of how John puts that. He wouldn't entrust himself to them because he knew what was in them.

[Phil Robertson]

Probably because they didn't understand. They got it wrong. He knows how we think.

[Zach Dasher]

My first thought was, I thought, looking ahead to John 8. Remember when it was after the feeding of the 5,000, which we'll get into, and it said, then he did other things and they believed in him, but the minute he started asking them questions, they quickly didn't believe in him because they went from believing in him to picking up rocks. Remember at the end of that, trying to kill him. And so I think that's what he means. He knew they weren't ready.

[Phil Robertson]

I think it goes into the thought, I don't know, I'm just speculating. You know those verses where Paul says that God doesn't need anything from us, he himself gives all men. Because we tend to be like that. Oh. Like we're doing God some favor, you know, that he needs us for whatever he does. That's why he'll make verses, statements that seem complex. Remember when he says, for I didn't. You didn't choose me, but I chose you?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

It's not based on you. What you think about me. Obviously you don't know or you wouldn't need me.

[Zach Dasher]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

You know, so any.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I mean, I think in, in his divine knowledge, I think this is an appeal here to, to the, to the divinity of Christ and He knows what's in your heart. So like he's not like he's looking at the crowd and he's. He knows which, at each, which each person is up to. And so he's able to discern and say, ah, I don't know. I'm not going to entrust myself to these people because I, I know what's in them.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And, and some of them maybe weren't legit. But I do think I want to back up one thing to that Mark 11 that you were mentioning. I do think it's worthy of Note, the Mark 11 passage. I'm not 100 convinced that's the same event as, as John chapter 2 in the Clearing of the temple. One reason is because they. There was different. When asked about the authority, there's two different answers. But I just think even the, the way where it's at in the text, I don't know if it's the same event, but I don't think it is.

[Phil Robertson]

I think we can all agree that we don't know. And if somebody claims they we're not omniscient, it's just weird that in three of the Gospels it happens much later. And in one, my deal is if.

[Zach Dasher]

You weren't tied to a synchronology of a story, then you could pop things in wherever you wanted to, which is.

[Phil Robertson]

I tend to agree with that. I think, I mean, but if it.

[Jase Robertson]

Is, if it is multiple occasions, I don't think that that would be against the nature of Jesus. He's very, very, very concerned about the temple. I don't, I think that it just highlights the concern. But I love the Mark 11 passage because it says something in Mark 11, he references an Old Testament passage in Mark 11 mainly around what is the goal of the temple and the purpose of the temple. And I think it's important when he, because in, in John 2, when he gets upset, he, he's more upset that it seems to be that he's more upset that they've just turned it into this marketplace. You know, it's a money thing, but in, in Mark 11, it gives a little more flavor to what Jesus is actually upset about. And this is, I wanted to read it because it fits into what we're saying and what we said in the last podcast about the Gentiles being grafted in. Or to use language like I will call people who are not my people. My people. Or to. To use the language that you use out of. Out of Amos. We're talking about nations. Yeah, yeah, nations and Edom and versus Israel and all that. Listen to what Jesus says whenever he's upset with them. He says, is it not written that my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations? But you've made it a den of robbers.

[Zach Dasher]

Jason, got a question for you.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

What do Andrea Bocelli, Steph Curry, Justin Bieber, and Tim Tebow all have in common? Please tell me I never knew this. I knew it about Thiebaud. I didn't know about the others. All their mothers were encouraged to end their pregnancies.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, wow.

[Zach Dasher]

Of these four men. So when a woman is facing an unplanned pregnancy, she often gets a lot of pressure to end her child's life. She wants to make the right choice, but society and those around her are telling her that her baby is not alive. And I've heard Thibaut's mom speak very powerfully about this and how she was pressured. And that's where preborn steps in. And I gotta tell you, we, out of all of our sponsors, preborn has been there with us for quite a while. And we just share their DNA of wanting to not only save babies, but also to help moms. Preborn in their network of clinics offer compassionate, loving care to mothers and the support that they need. And also it helps them choose life, including a free ultrasound. Once a mom hears her child's beautiful heartbeat, she's twice as likely to choose life. So if you consider yourself pro life, it's time to join forces with preborn. Together we can empower women to choose life. Empowering the truth of motherhood changes and transforms families and futures. One ultrasound is just $28 and $140 will help rescue five babies. When you donate monthly, you'll receive stories and pictures of lives that you help save. Please dial £250, say the keyword baby. That's £250, keyword baby. Or visit preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed.

[Jase Robertson]

The issue was not that they made a den of robbers so much as what that perverted. It perverted the intention of what it was. The purpose of God's house was not to not be a den of robbers. There was a purpose to be a house of prayer for all nations, which would be Jew and gentile every Nation coming in. It was all the tribes. It was everybody coming into this house. And the reason why this matters is what we're saying in this podcast and what we've said repeatedly. It's not a New Testament invention. In fact, if you go back and read the Old Testament in the light of what we're saying and what Jesus is revealing here, this stuff was always in the Old Testament. That is, he doesn't make that verse up. That's a verse, I think, out of Deuteronomy. My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations. That's in the Old Testament. They just somehow missed it. But it was always there. This story was always there about God bringing in all the nations. So then you get to Nicodemus, and it's interesting that he's talking to someone who is definitely high in the upper echelon of Israel, but he's making a point of grafting in the entire world into the kingdom.

[Zach Dasher]

And you could always be. The Gentiles could always be outside the temple, in the outer courts of it, but they couldn't get inside. That was the difference. Unless they went through the ritualizing part of Judaism. That's what's changed with Jesus.

[Phil Robertson]

No, I thought the same thing. Look, yesterday I was at WFR and Dave was preaching, did a good job, but he was doing, doing it on Ephesians 4, 20, 24. And he was talking about your new mind and this transition. You know, if you read the verse, it's like, you know, put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its evil desires to be made new in the attitude in your minds, and to put on the new self. So that's what he talked about. Yeah, but that last little phrase, which he didn't really talk too much about, that's what I thought for our discussion, because it says created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. I'm like, the reason they're having trouble wrapping their heads around this old building of a temple in the new temple is he's from John 1:1 all the way to now, he's introducing a new creation. Yeah, it's not that. Just he's the temple that he's done and being buried and raised, but the people who then surrender to him become part of that new creation. This is making everything right. And that's why it emphasizes on what he's doing now in our life, because that's why when he goes into the practical things here. And I've used this illustration numerous times here, but in verse 28 of Ephesians 4, when he says, he who must be has been stealing, must steal no longer. To your point, Zach, it's not about so much you're robbing the temple. It's that. But he must work, doing something useful with his own hands so that he may share with something. And he's looking at what the new creation is going to bring by him dying for our sins, overcoming the evil powers against us, creating this, you know, hope of never dying. And in the meantime, you now functioning as members of his kingdom and showing that God is here.

[Zach Dasher]

Plus, just think about. Just think about the difference, Zach, that you go from being near the presence of God once a year. We're talking about under the old system, to having the presence of God live in you.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean, you talk about a leap here. This is quantum leap.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. The vision is not the vision of the kingdom. The gospel of the kingdom, to quote, you know, Jesus in Mark, chapter one, it's. The gospel of the kingdom is not a negation of all the things you can't do.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, Zach, preaching so good. 90. I would say over 90% of these sermons in America on every Sunday is what you don't do. It's like he died for your sins, and now you got to clean that up and have as few as possible, and then you might make it, maybe. What are we supposed to be doing? What happened to the new self?

[Jase Robertson]

And we wonder, man, why is this not selling well?

[Zach Dasher]

Why have we been in decline for decades?

[Phil Robertson]

Which brings us, I think, to John 3, one of the most controversial. There's more ways to believe. What in the world is he talking about here? And so we're going to hang out here for a while because there's multiple views of what this means.

[Zach Dasher]

Yep.

[Phil Robertson]

But I do think it's a good foundation to realize that what started John's conversation about this is that Jesus wasn't trusting what men thought.

[Zach Dasher]

That's right. And remember the context of where we are from John's perspective. Everything we're looking at is through John's perspective.

[Phil Robertson]

And it was during the Passover feast, which I think is going to be important to my take on this. And I'll see what y'all think, but I'll just. You want to read it?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. Well, read the first two verses. Let me give a little bit of background. Then you can go from there. Because, remember, we got new wine and we got the clearing of the temple, and then we got this incident. So remember those two coming into it.

[Phil Robertson]

Well. And we're introduced something that Mark quickly gets to in his gospel. But here, I think this is the first time that the kingdom of God is mentioned in John.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, let me read the first two and let me set it up. And then you go from there. So there's a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one could perform the miraculous signs you were doing if God were not with him. Let me just give you a couple little things about Nicodemus. One is I found interesting. His name in Greek means conqueror of the people, which is interesting. So this guy is very much in high esteem. He is a member of the Pharisees and we've talked about this in past podcasts. The Pharisees got to think this goes all the way back to Daniel. These were separatists. These were guys that under the Babylonian captivity, they didn't go with the Babylonian way. They stood for the godly way. That's where the Pharisees began. So this is 600 year. Good, which is good. These were guys that stood for what was right. But unfortunately they added so much because the Mishnah, which was, you know, these things they wrote, they had 24 chapters, Jace, about keeping the Sabbath. Yeah, 24 chapters.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, they took the Torah and then made a lot of additions.

[Zach Dasher]

Exactly. So he was. He was a Pharisee. He was a member of the Jewish ruling council, which is the sanhedrin. That's a 70 member body. And if you were trying to put it in modern politics, it's like a parliament and supreme court all rolled into one. Yeah, you had the high priest and you had these guys, which also made.

[Phil Robertson]

Their system performance based.

[Zach Dasher]

Everything was. Exactly. And so the other thing I want to add on that is he comes to Jesus at night, which means one of two things to me. He's either trying to be super diplomatic because there's a lot of angst that's going on behind the scenes, or he really is seeking, which is, I think, what it is, because later on we know, because we read the whole book of John, that he becomes a believer at the end. So that's the setup.

[Phil Robertson]

Now here's my take. I'm going to read this, give you my take about the context, y'all, whatever you thought, I believed on this. I've made a shift in my thinking. And it was because I thought, man, why are there so many disagreements on really what this phrase means where it says. And I'M going to just read this out of context first. Where. When Jesus. Verse 5, After he tells Nicodemus, well, I guess I have. Let me just read it. Verse 3. In reply, Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God. Felt like we needed a drum roll to that. No one can see the kingdom of God unless he's born again. Well, how can a man be born when he is old? Nicodemus asked. Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born. Now, I will, just before I read verse five, I'll give you a little background. When he says that born again in verse three, there's a little letter behind it and it says, or from above.

[Zach Dasher]

Or and from above.

[Phil Robertson]

And I immediately. Does that sound familiar? In chapter one, remember, in verse 12, it says, yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God. Children born not of natural descent or of human decision or of a husband's will, but born of God or born from above.

[Jase Robertson]

So here's a question for you. What is the gospel? The way you answer that question has a lot of significance in how you live your life out. And we would argue, based on the teaching of Jesus in the Book of Mark, that that definition of the gospel should not be separate from the coming of the kingdom based on Jesus's words in Mark. We're talking about this on my new podcast called Not Yet Now. Would love to invite you guys to join. We're going to go through the series, the series on the Book of Mark. We launch every Tuesday and would love to have you guys be a part of it. So go check us out. Not yet now podcast with Zach Dasher. You can find us anywhere podcasts are heard. The title again is Not yet now with Zach Dasher. Or you can check us out on YouTube as well at Dasher Zach. Z A C H. At Dasher Zach. Hope to see you guys there.

[Phil Robertson]

Verse 5. Jesus answered, I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to the spirit. You should not be surprised at me my saying, you must be born again. And then he starts talking about the wind. It blows wherever it pleases. You hear it sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from, where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the spirit. Nicodemus, now he's just like. Smoke is rising off his head. He said, well, how can this be? Now, this is one of the reasons I kind of changed the context of what I've was taught, is because of this next verse, because he said, well, you are Israel's teacher and you do not understand these things. That made me stop in my tracks when I read this again for the, you know, 40 years of following Jesus, because I thought he must have said something that he thought Nicodemus should have, being an Israelite of Israelites that he should have been familiar with. So what I'm going to share with you is probably you're going to think, whoa. Because that's the reason I started trying to look back to the Old Testament, thinking, why was Jesus thinking he should have known what he was talking about? And so I'll make that point at some point. We probably won't have time today, but I want to keep reading. I tell you the truth. We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen. But still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things, and you will not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? So whatever he said, when he said there was some earthly things that he was talking about, the things that happen on the earth, which is the reason I have a new context for this verse 13. No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man. Well, now he's speaking about himself in the third person, would you agree? And that's the same phrase that he used back here at the Ladder to Nathaniel.

[Jase Robertson]

John and I would argue this is also connecting himself to the prophetic vision that Daniel had in Daniel 7. Anytime you see that word son of.

[Phil Robertson]

Man, which also discusses what topic?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

The kingdom.

[Zach Dasher]

Right?

[Jase Robertson]

Yes.

[Phil Robertson]

This coming kingdom. So before we do our next podcast, go back and read Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 and look for key phrases. Son of man and kingdom.

[Zach Dasher]

Yep.

[Phil Robertson]

And you'll find out that the kingdom that Daniel is prophesying about is an eternal kingdom.

[Zach Dasher]

Correct.

[Phil Robertson]

It will crush all other kingdoms.

[Zach Dasher]

And he lists earthly kingdoms in the description of when the eternal kingdom would be established.

[Phil Robertson]

And to make this foundation even stronger, remember the. I've said this before. I put a lot of emphasis. Emphasis. This is. I was emphasizing the word emphasis.

[Zach Dasher]

That's easy for you to say.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that was a joke. I was emphasizing.

[Zach Dasher]

I know, I got it. I got it.

[Phil Robertson]

So look, in Mark 1, the first thing he said in Mark, you remember what it was? Verse 14. After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee proclaiming the good news of God. And here's the first red letters in Mark. The time is here. He said the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news. What's he talking about? But so not to get down that rabbit hole yet because I want to get back to John. So then it says in verse 14 of John 3 just now, here's another reason I kind of looked at the context just as Moses. Well you think this guy was familiar with Moses?

[Zach Dasher]

I think he knew Moses.

[Phil Robertson]

Knew him like the back of his hand in fact, which is why he.

[Zach Dasher]

Could just pull a quote out of numbers and knew he would knew who was talking about.

[Phil Robertson]

Now you see what I the case I'm making for context of going back because he said because I got to reading. I think the problem with just reading the first five verses and then asking the controversial question which is what did Jesus mean by being born of water and the spirit? That's the controversial statement.

[Zach Dasher]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

And there's at least five views that I found on what people who are smart, people who love God, who disagree on.

[Zach Dasher]

Yes.

[Phil Robertson]

Scholars, scholars everywhere, religious groups everywhere. There's a take on what it. What did he mean by being. Now we kind of get the spirit but we're like why did he throw in water in there?

[Zach Dasher]

Right.

[Phil Robertson]

What is that talking about? And boy I'll save you some time because some of them in my opinion are just ridiculous. But people, God loving people really think because they, they just don't make. It doesn't make sense what he's talking.

[Jase Robertson]

About like a natural birth, your born.

[Phil Robertson]

One'S natural, natural birth or even things I don't even want to say. I'm too embarrassed to even say it in public. So yeah, so verse 14 he says just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the sun must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. So I'm building a pattern and I've said this before and I'm saying it again. When Jesus came, because of the cryptic nature of the prophecy and all, he's going back to fulfilling these, these prophecies which are sometimes hard for us to wrap our head our head around 2,000 years later because it was in the Jewish Israelite world. So we go back and see how he fulfilled it. But we also go forward because at this point he starts talking about he's going to. You're. He's going to baptize you with the Holy Spirit so that there's things that he's going back to Moses, you're in. You're Israel's teacher, shouldn't you know what I'm talking about? And then he's also looking forward. Looking forward. And he also mentioned the line about, I've spoken to you about earthly things, like things that happened in the past. So then it gets to verse 16, which is another reason that I changed my view on the context of this. Because then he says, for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son. Now, look, we tend to focus on he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. But I focus just for the context on that first phrase. For God so love the world. Well, who's he talking to? He's talking to an Israelite. He's bringing up what happened in Israel's history. He's bringing up Moses. And now all of a sudden, he's telling this guy, because what is this guy? What do we know about a Pharisee? He's thinking, the only way you're getting to heaven is if you were born an Israelite. And now all of a sudden he says all this. He introduces this idea about born of the Spirit. Then he says, for God so loved the world. Well, that seems like we're talking about everybody. Well, for the. For Nicodemus, that had to be like, wait, what? I mean, he focused on that first statement. He was like, I thought you were Israel. You know, we're representing Israel. You talking about loving the world. The whole world. So.

[Zach Dasher]

And this guy doesn't want to have anything to do with the world. All right, so we're out of time, but we got a perfect cliffhanger leaving off place. John 3:16, the most famous verse.

[Phil Robertson]

If you're ever going to leave a cliffhanger to a podcast. Yeah, let's go with John.

[Jase Robertson]

You never gave us the answer. Right?

[Phil Robertson]

I never gave you the what does.

[Jase Robertson]

It mean to be born of the water and the spirit?

[Zach Dasher]

The answer will come next time on Unashamed. What a cliffhanger. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.

[Jase Robertson]

It.