Ep 1060 | Jase Got Conned at 9 Years Old & Miss Kay Might Be the Culprit!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1060 | Jase's Scheme to Shrink His Whole Family & How Jesus Took Away Lisa's 30 Years of Shame

Introduction of Lisa Robertson [00:06 - 00:43]

The episode kicks off with host Jase Robertson affirming his unashamed stance, followed by a warm welcome from Phil Robertson as they introduce Lisa Robertson, Phil's bride, as a special guest. Jase emphasizes the unity and synergy in their relationship, stating, "One plus one is one" ([00:18]). Lisa shares her gratitude, highlighting God's healing in her life and her enthusiasm to embark on a new diet journey with Jase ([00:30]-[00:42]).

Jase's Childhood Story and Supernatural Contact [01:34 - 08:54]

Jase reminisces about a formative childhood experience where, at nine years old, he was deceived by a mail-order "shrinking powder." He recalls saving $9.95 to purchase it, only for the product never to arrive ([01:34]-[02:58]). This anecdote serves as a metaphor for feeling powerless and attempting to control his surroundings. The conversation delves into whether his mother might have intercepted the order, reflecting deeper childhood trauma and loss of trust ([03:35]-[05:02]).

Transitioning from past experiences to present challenges, Jase reveals his recent encounter with what he describes as a supernatural phenomenon. He explains that he has been contacted to serve as a supernatural advisor, helping to discern and address supernatural activities. Despite initial skepticism, Jase contemplates accepting the role, seeking Phil and Lisa's support ([05:58]-[08:54]).

Notable Quote:

• Jase Robertson at [04:12]: "There's a part of me when Jesus comes back and you know there's going to be a divide. You're either with the winning team or the losing or you're not."

Biblical Discussion: The Woman at the Well [09:23 - 43:50]

The conversation shifts to a profound analysis of John 4, focusing on the story of the Samaritan woman at the well. Phil introduces the topic, mentioning their intent to explore the woman's struggle with shame and how an encounter with Jesus transformed her life ([09:23]-[10:32]).

Lisa Robertson shares her personal journey with shame, stemming from childhood sexual abuse and subsequent life challenges. She emphasizes how shame and guilt are powerful tools used by negative forces to keep individuals in darkness, preventing them from embracing the light of faith ([15:47]-[21:48]). Lisa recounts her experience of seeking salvation within her family influences but ultimately finding true liberation through a personal encounter with Christ.

Phil and Jase delve deeper into the woman's interactions with Jesus, highlighting her multiple deflections and eventual confession. They discuss how Jesus' willingness to confront her shame without condemnation empowered her to embrace her true identity and share her story with others ([30:17]-[37:10]).

Zach Dasher contributes by sharing a poignant story of a 72-year-old man who overcame decades of shame and guilt through confession and faith, drawing parallels to the Samaritan woman's transformation ([21:48]-[25:09]).

Notable Quotes:

• Lisa Robertson at [15:47]: "Whatever's going on with your liver, but it is an essential part of the body."
• Phil Robertson at [25:09]: "It's a faith moment."

Personal Testimonies: Overcoming Shame and Guilt [37:10 - 48:50]

The discussion moves to real-life applications of the biblical principles discussed. Lisa and Phil share testimonies of individuals who have found healing and redemption by confronting their shame and embracing their faith. Lisa emphasizes the importance of confession in releasing shame, drawing from both her experience and Jase's story ([37:10]-[48:50]).

Jase reflects on his own breakthrough moment, where sharing his truths with his brother Allen led to a profound release of darkness and guilt, reinforcing the transformative power of honesty and faith ([47:18]-[48:50]). Phil adds to the conversation by narrating how openness about personal struggles can lead to communal support and individual healing.

Notable Quote:

• Jase Robertson at [44:30]: "It's when God released it in my life. Whenever I was able to tell Allen, because I had never told another person in my whole life all the things that had gone on... that's when the darkness left. That's when the shame was gone and the guilt was gone."

Faith and Transformation Insights [48:50 - 55:33]

The hosts delve into theological insights on worship and intimacy with God, linking back to the story of the Samaritan woman. They discuss how true worship transcends physical locations and is rooted in a genuine, repentant heart. The conversation underscores the shift from external rituals to an internal, Spirit-led connection with God ([48:50]-[55:33]).

Zach illustrates this transformation by comparing it to breaking through barriers of shame and embracing the openness that faith offers. Lisa reiterates the necessity of showing Christ-like compassion to others, especially those entrenched in darkness and shame ([55:05]-[55:33]).

Notable Quote:

• Zach Dasher at [53:19]: "It's about a person. And he has the conversation."

Conclusion [55:33 - End]

As the episode wraps up, Jase references Galatians 4:8, highlighting the importance of being known by God rather than returning to old, less fulfilling principles ([56:22]). Phil acknowledges the depth of the discussion and thanks Lisa for her invaluable contributions, hinting at future explorations of the story ([56:56]-[End]).

Final Thoughts

This episode of Unashamed with the Robertson Family masterfully intertwines personal anecdotes with deep theological insights, centering around the theme of overcoming shame through faith. The Robertson family members openly share their struggles and victories, providing listeners with relatable stories and spiritual encouragement. Through the lens of the Samaritan woman's encounter with Jesus, the episode emphasizes the transformative power of confession, compassion, and an authentic relationship with God.

Key Takeaways:

• Confession as Liberation: Opening up about one's deepest shame and struggles is a crucial step toward healing and spiritual freedom.
• Compassion Without Condemnation: Emulating Christ's approach by addressing issues without judgment fosters genuine connections and support.
• True Worship: Moving beyond external rituals to an inner, Spirit-led worship enriches one's relationship with God.
• Transformative Power of Faith: Embracing faith can dismantle long-held feelings of guilt and shame, enabling individuals to live authentically and joyously.

Notable Quotes:

• Jase Robertson [04:12]: "There's a part of me when Jesus comes back and you know there's going to be a divide. You're either with the winning team or the losing or you're not."
• Lisa Robertson [15:47]: "Whatever's going on with your liver, but it is an essential part of the body."
• Jase Robertson [44:30]: "It's when God released it in my life. Whenever I was able to tell Allen, because I had never told another person in my whole life all the things that had gone on... that's when the darkness left. That's when the shame was gone and the guilt was gone."
• Zach Dasher [53:19]: "It's about a person. And he has the conversation."

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Note: This summary omits advertisement and promotional segments to focus solely on the core content and discussions of the episode.

Transcript

[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil Robertson]

Welcome back to Unashamed. We've added my favorite guest on the Unashamed podcast, my beautiful bride, Lisa. Welcome to Unashamed.

[Lisa Robertson]

Thank you.

[Jase Robertson]

One plus one is one.

[Phil Robertson]

That's exactly right. And synergy makes it even better. So tell folks how you're doing, because a lot of people prayed for you last year. I don't know when's the last time you've been on, but it's been a minute. But you're doing amazing.

[Lisa Robertson]

I am. I'm doing so good. God's been so good to me and healed my body, and now I just, you know, I'm doing so good that I think I'm going to have to get on that diet with you.

[Jase Robertson]

Every one.

[Zach Dasher]

How do you feel without. I mean, you got a new husband. I mean, what's that? I mean, he looks like a different man.

[Lisa Robertson]

Can't take my hands off of him.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, here we go.

[Zach Dasher]

Slow down.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm not. Does that bother me? It's just what married people do, so.

[Phil Robertson]

Cleared it. They're all good.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, people say that. They're like, you know, why. Why you talk about sex. And I was like, God invented that. He's the architect.

[Lisa Robertson]

As a pleasure for us.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Lisa Robertson]

And as married couples.

[Jase Robertson]

And to. And to fill the earth.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. That's how we all got here. I mean, every one of us got here.

[Jase Robertson]

I think everyone needs that reminder. Make a public service announcement. So what I was going to say. I'll tell you a fascinating story about my childhood. This. This popped into my head because I feel like I'm around people who are shrinking. Who are shrinking.

[Zach Dasher]

Is this a segue or this?

[Jase Robertson]

Like, this is not a segue. This is all the time.

[Zach Dasher]

We're leaving one area.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

We're going down territory.

[Jase Robertson]

The last time I was conned, I was nine years old.

[Lisa Robertson]

And I highly doubt that you've probably been cons since then.

[Jase Robertson]

Hear the story. Last time that I knowingly was coming back in those days, we used to get mail that had all these ads and all. And so, yeah, I'm living out in the middle of the woods with my parents trying to find themselves. And so I saw this ad on the back, and it was a shrinking powder. And the picture of it was a boy walking down the street, and he had his parents and his dog in his pocket. I thought, wow. So I saved up $9.95 and ordered a can of that shrinking powder. But the. The image was, you can make everyone smaller. I just thought, well, this were you.

[Phil Robertson]

Gonna shrink mom and dad and the dog?

[Jase Robertson]

I was shrinking everybody. But you know what? It never came.

[Phil Robertson]

It never came.

[Jase Robertson]

It never. They didn't even send you the.

[Zach Dasher]

Not only did it not work, it never came.

[Jase Robertson]

It never came. I sent 9. 95 plus shipping.

[Lisa Robertson]

And did you send cash?

[Jase Robertson]

I don't remember.

[Phil Robertson]

He had to. Nine years old.

[Lisa Robertson]

Yeah. If you sent cash, that might be why.

[Jase Robertson]

Remember, I sent it and I spent the next three months going down there getting the mail.

[Lisa Robertson]

Or maybe if you gave it to K, she might have just said, maybe.

[Phil Robertson]

If I mailed it for you. That actually got spent.

[Zach Dasher]

That's a lot of money when you were nine years old with inflation.

[Jase Robertson]

Exactly. So when y'all said that, it reminded me of that. I was like, everyone's shrinking around me. There was a time in my life where I really tried to purchase that and be in control.

[Lisa Robertson]

Shrinking powder.

[Zach Dasher]

I was going to ask you, how did you go from what we were talking about to shrinking powder? But now I'm glad you.

[Phil Robertson]

You see how you made the leap.

[Zach Dasher]

I see. Yeah. I was wondering how the mind of Jace works. That helps me understand you more.

[Jase Robertson]

They never sent it. They just took the money because I probably sent cash.

[Phil Robertson]

No, mom got that. She. She blew it. She. That never.

[Lisa Robertson]

That never got in the mail.

[Zach Dasher]

We are uncovering childhood trauma. Your mother was the perpetrator of the fraud of the. Of the con job.

[Phil Robertson]

Mom never met a $10 pill she didn't.

[Zach Dasher]

Like your own mom.

[Jase Robertson]

I have to confess, we've been talking about light and darkness, and there's a part of me when Jesus comes back and you know there's going to be a divide. You're either with the winning team or the losing or you're not.

[Phil Robertson]

Everybody gets judged.

[Jase Robertson]

And I was going to. I just. Part of me has thought, all right, hey, let's. That's New heaven, New earth. Let's live. And it's like, wait a minute. I'd like to know where that 995. Where is. Where did it go? That dude.

[Phil Robertson]

Did he make it? Did he repent?

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zach Dasher]

Do you think your mom. Do you think your mom could have potentially been the person that took the money from you?

[Jase Robertson]

No, because I checked the mail every day.

[Zach Dasher]

I'm saying she could have. No, I'm saying she could have intercepted.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I put it in the mail.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, you did it?

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. Well, I wasn't gonna tell them that I was buying shrinking powder to shrink them and put them in my pocket.

[Phil Robertson]

Because they were going in the pocket.

[Jase Robertson]

I wasn't trying to hurt them. I just wanted to make them a little bit.

[Phil Robertson]

It's funny because when Jace was young, at this age, Zach, I always thought he was just kind of quiet and kept to himself. I didn't know he had grandiose schemes going to shrink the entire family. He had a lot working there, you know, in his mind, the whole time. I just thought he was a quiet kid. I didn't know.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, we're talking about, like, these influences in the demonic realm, you know, that are working against humanity. I mean, I have to think at nine years old, there was some. Not a benevolent.

[Phil Robertson]

No, he wanted to control us.

[Zach Dasher]

Diabolical.

[Jase Robertson]

This is like I'm gonna confess something. I can't divulge what I'm fixing to divulge, so I have to be careful. We may have to edit this.

[Phil Robertson]

Maddie, Eddie, get your finger on the button.

[Jase Robertson]

I was reached out to. There was kind of a supernatural phenomenon going on, and. And through a long process, I was contacted to be a part of a team that goes in and address whether this is supernatural activity. And now at first, y'all thinking this is crazy. I actually said, I tell you what, give me the dates. Because the person who contacted me, he's a good friend of mine and a believer. And so I'm contemplating whether to do this because they're going to film it. And of course, they asked me to pray for the. I guess he said. Well, I'll tell you what he said. He's like, you're. You're one of the most spiritual people I know, and I'm not sure what I'm getting into, but will you come and, you know, whatever you want to do, pray for us, talk to us about, you know, the Bible, about, you know, what. What this. What this is. So I'm thinking about doing that. What do you think?

[Phil Robertson]

I think you should.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

It's quite a few states away, but.

[Phil Robertson]

Go in there with the power of the.

[Jase Robertson]

I've been contacted as a supernatural advisor into something.

[Phil Robertson]

You know, what Sad. We had those fuzzy creature guys on, and now that's piqued your interest. That's what happened.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, that didn't pique my interest. They called me.

[Phil Robertson]

I know. That's what I'm saying.

[Jase Robertson]

I keep. Every time I think I'm away, they pull me back in.

[Phil Robertson]

We just had this conversation.

[Jase Robertson]

I've been studying about it because I thought, well, worst case scenario, if there's nothing to it, right? You know, I can give him a sermon for whatever production this is.

[Phil Robertson]

And, well, it's like Smith Used to say when he taught us. JC says some things you just take and put in your. Hmm Box.

[Zach Dasher]

Yep.

[Phil Robertson]

I remember that. It could be something for your and.

[Jase Robertson]

If you never see me again now you know what happened then we know what happened.

[Phil Robertson]

You know what happened. Someone shrunk him. He'll be in someone's pocket. How's that for Jason?

[Zach Dasher]

You need to leave us. They need to leave some way for us to know where you're going.

[Phil Robertson]

That's right. In case you don't without letting somebody know.

[Zach Dasher]

Not that we're going to go after you if you don't return. We were going to assume that.

[Jase Robertson]

I have a group of men who I made a deal with one time. I gave them Jesus. They have a special set of skills in military warfare.

[Phil Robertson]

Like the guy taken.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. We made an agreement. Like if I ever get hung up somewhere, they said we'll come get you if I can just get to them.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. And there. Those are guys you want to know.

[Jase Robertson]

And a part of me like kind of wants in. No, not too dangerous. But get into that situation just to.

[Phil Robertson]

Say, hey, ride to the rescue.

[Jase Robertson]

I know some people with some certain skills.

[Zach Dasher]

It is nice to have some friends that you could say if I could get a hold of them, no matter where I'm at in the world, I know that they could come get me.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I think that is. There's some security.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, it feels good.

[Jase Robertson]

All right. What are we going to talk about?

[Phil Robertson]

So here's what we got. So we had a plan laid out but we must perfectly crafted plan that I went. I went down a rabbit ruin I.

[Jase Robertson]

Sabotage the last podcast because Al said the only begotten son.

[Phil Robertson]

I was just making the comments so I could stick it in there and we went to a whole podcast.

[Jase Robertson]

That's a thing people want to know about spiritual warfare.

[Phil Robertson]

Love your rabbit holes.

[Jase Robertson]

There's a lot of verses in there. So I think we did a pretty good job.

[Phil Robertson]

So. So Lisa, we brought you on specifically because we're. We were thinking we would get to John 4, which is the woman at the well. And you and I have done some teaching on this and I like your insights on this woman because you share some things with her. So we're going to get there.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I have an idea.

[Phil Robertson]

All right.

[Jase Robertson]

Do you want to do this section first?

[Phil Robertson]

You want to do that or do we want.

[Zach Dasher]

Let's. Let's do woman at the well and we'll just go.

[Phil Robertson]

Go back.

[Jase Robertson]

Wait a minute. I have an idea. Look, so when we left off the. The back end of chapter three and verse 19 through 21. I do think this goes with the woman at the. Well, because I'm just going to go ahead and throw this out there. I think one of the biggest struggles she had, even though it's not directly mentioned, but once you understand the context, was shame. Yeah, she had. She had been shame. You agree?

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, yeah.

[Lisa Robertson]

Oh, absolutely.

[Phil Robertson]

You are looking at me like, no. At least that's what I talk about.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, because you just when. Especially when you understand the culture.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Jase Robertson]

And what she had done and where she was at at what time.

[Phil Robertson]

Nobody ever seems to want to talk about the liver.

[Jase Robertson]

No, it's underestimated. There's no country songs about whatever's going on with your liver, but it is a. It is an essential part of the body.

[Phil Robertson]

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[Jase Robertson]

He's got a reputation.

[Phil Robertson]

He's got a reputation. So then we get into this light and dark. But this woman, to go ahead and set the stage for you, her deal is in the middle of the day. But guess what? She's still hiding her. She comes in the middle of the day because that's when she can go when other people are.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, that's why I want to tie in John 3, 1921, because it says, this is the verdict, which I never read. Last time we just left people I.

[Phil Robertson]

Know, we just were hanging.

[Jase Robertson]

The verdict is in. And guess what? Tune in next time. This is next time. Light has come into the world, but men love darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. And obviously light is a depiction of Jesus. But people love darkness, which I think is a. Is kind of a thought provoking, provoking verse. Love was behind this. But people love darkness. To me, that's such a transition because it's like for God so loved the world. Oh, it's so beautiful. But guess what? People love darkness. They love what's going out in the world and love to participate. So then it says everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God. So obviously that's gonna. We'll read the story. But that's gonna translate over to. Here's this woman kind of going at a time during the day before we read it where she could be alone. And then all of a sudden she has this encounter with Jesus. But what I think is kind of. It's not funny, but it's funny to me. It's like she is so transformed in the moment, which is the opposite of Nicodemus. He eventually comes around later in this story, but she pretty well went from being filled with shame to going around in public saying, he told me everything I ever did. He told me everything I ever did. It's like all the things you've done is why you were filled with shame. And now she's going around just announcing it to the world. So how does that happen?

[Phil Robertson]

So. So before we read it, babe, I want you to tell why you Relate. Because I think Jason's right on the money. Before we read the story, that how you relate to her in this idea of shame kind of where. What. Why does that resonate with you so much in understanding that and being in that place where you felt so ashamed you couldn't get to truth and couldn't get to light?

[Lisa Robertson]

Well, and I think it's because that's one of the things that the evil one uses more than almost more than anything is shame. And he uses that because. Because it works, I guess. But, you know, whenever you. Whenever you're growing up and different things happen to you, you know, especially as a child, you feel as though those things are your fault. Even if somebody, you know, takes advantage of you whenever you're a child, but you still have a. You have a sense of guilt there because you feel like it's your fault. And so then you keep going through your life and different things happen, and it plays back on that shame and that guilt, you know, because Satan keeps bringing that up. Well, you know, you're not. You're not any good. You remember this happened to you. So in my life it was, you know, sexual abuse as a child. Then it was, you know, bad choices that I made as a teenager. Having an abortion again, another darkness. You're just. That is dark. Then, you know, you get married and you feel as though maybe that's your saving grace. You know, God has sent you this person, but nothing has happened to that darkness that you've been living with for your whole life. And the darkness produces shame. All darkness produces shame.

[Phil Robertson]

And it's like it's a. It's like it's a powerful force that keeps pulling you back to the darkness. Every time you can begin bubbling towards light, it's just like, no, we're gonna pull you back here where it's nice and dark and comfortable, and that's the place.

[Lisa Robertson]

Well, because I think one reason is that we have encounters with people, but it takes an encounter with God to change that and to get rid of that shame. You know, I mean, I'm in the Robertson family, and I'm grateful that God put me in this family, but I'm in the Robertson family. And so I've got all the influences of all of y'all yalls wives. I mean, I've got all of that to pull me out of that. To pull me out of that shame and that darkness. But that's not what I needed because I used you as my savior for a long time. But you were not what could pull me out of the shame and the darkness, I had to have an encounter with Christ. And I think it's the same with this woman at the well. She went at high noon because nobody else is going to go at high noon. I mean, heat of the day, it's.

[Phil Robertson]

The worst time to go and get water.

[Lisa Robertson]

And she went because she knew that she didn't want to hear the whispers, she didn't want people looking at her. But whenever she went on this particular day, what I love about this is that, is that Christ didn't go to the well for water. He went to the well for this woman.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. That is one of the most incredible stories in the Bible. It's only in John. And you know, he would later say that everything Jesus did was recorded. The world wouldn't have enough books to hold them. So there's a reason I think this story is special that it is shared because the overall theme, I think is what links God will go to. To save a person.

[Lisa Robertson]

That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, this is. She's from the wrong region. You know, there's a verse Jews and Samaritans didn't associate then in their culture, men don't talk alone with women in public. And to your point, just reading the history of this because I really think that contributes to understanding. So one of the social places women would gather up were these wells early in the day. I mean it was kind of them.

[Lisa Robertson]

First thing in the morning.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. It was like a small group of women. You know, that's why she was here by herself, because of all those qualities. And her life was just a mess.

[Lisa Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, and even though she had been married, what was it, five times.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. And she's now living with a guy who she wasn't married to.

[Jase Robertson]

Right. But in their culture. Well, that women weren't allowed to file for a divorce. So she's basically been called five times to go with shame. And you're just. Because what do you walk away from saying that you're, you're worthless and you keep getting validated. You know, I don't want you in my life. I mean, five different times.

[Phil Robertson]

So, yeah, it's just a cast off. Yeah, but you've said that before. You said dad always had a saying, boys, you need to convert them or call them.

[Lisa Robertson]

That's exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

If they're not believers, at least. I said, well, I didn't want to get called. So, you know, but unfortunately she had the wrong Lord.

[Lisa Robertson]

That's right.

[Phil Robertson]

Which was there.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

Lisa, I'm curious if when you were in that place of shame in your life, did you recognize it as shame? Did you even have a context for it? Or was that something that had to be brought out by the Holy Spirit or. I'm just curious.

[Lisa Robertson]

I don't think that I knew it was shame. I think it was the thought of not being good enough and being damaged property, kind of like this woman. But I don't really think that I knew it was shame until God revealed that. And a lot of it was guilt. Guilt over all the many things that I had done wrong. But the guilt and the shame is what kept me in it. You know, those are two of the evil ones, tools that he loves to hold onto and continue to whisper in your ear about. You know.

[Phil Robertson]

I made a decision that I was going to try to lose some weight. Lost a little bit on my own, but kind of an epic failure. Didn't get to where I wanted to go. And So I decided Jays to make 2025 the year of healthy Al. And so I hooked up with some folks called PhD weight loss. And so far I'm losing weight, looking better.

[Jase Robertson]

You're making a comeback.

[Phil Robertson]

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[Zach Dasher]

I was thinking about. There's a. I was at a event where a very intimate gathering and there was a, a man there who was probably in his 70s, and he was a leader in the church, had a very prolific kind of like life experience behind him, very well respected. And he felt compelled at this gathering we were at to share with a group something that had happened to him that he had never shared with anybody. He said. He said, I haven't even told my wife this yet. He said, but I just feel a conviction from the Holy Spirit that I need to share this and I need to unleash this burden on me. And this was a very, very mature Christian. And he said when he was eight years, he said, when I was eight years old, I was molested by a family friend. And I mean, he's just weeping. This guy's a weeping. And I'm like. And he said, I've carried this lie with me my entire life, that it was my fault and that I was somehow responsible for this abuse. And, and like it was like at 72 years old, after walking with Christ all these years, having the Holy Spirit and leading other people to Christ, there was a 72 years old. He had this moment of, of like transformation and healing and coming to grips with that. And I just think about the nature of shame sometimes as it doesn't like, manifest itself as shame in terms of our mind, but when the Holy Spirit allows us to name it, then he can deal with it. And I think that's what's going to happen here in this text that we're about to get.

[Phil Robertson]

We had. We had a similar situation where a woman that had moved to Alaska and she said, the reason I went to the most remote place you can go to in the United States of America is because I've been running my whole life. And she was 72, similar age, Zach, where you were talking about. And she said when she read our book and Lisa articulated these years, in her case, you know, 15 years of our marriage, but even the years for that of running and the shame, and I was there. But finally coming to that place, she said, for the first time, I realized the why. And she was just so both excited and then heartsick at the same time that it took that long to find it. But she found it, which was a blessing for us. And I think that's why this story resonates. I want to read it, but I do want to mention this. I think one of the reasons why Elise and I resonate so much to it is Jesus has six different times where he engages her in this story. And she deflects every time because she's still trying to stay. She keeps changing this up. She got all these different ways she does it until he finally appeals to her at the very end, and she finally breaks. But let me. Let me read it. I'm going to start in verse three, because we're going to go back and pick up the end of that chapter three. But in. In verse three of chapter four, when the Lord learned of this, he left Judea, went back once more to Galilee. So he's on the move. And I will say this. Normally every good Jew went around Samaria. They didn't go through Samaria because there's a ton of history here as to why. But it says in verse four, he had to go through Samaria, but he didn't really, because everybody else went around Samaria. They wouldn't go through Samaria, but he had to go through there, to Lisa's point, because he had an appointment to make. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sakaar, near the plot of ground that Jacob had given to his son Joseph. By the way, Joseph, his bones were actually buried here at the end of Joshua, Joshua 24. So this is a very sacred place to Jews. Jacob's well was there. And Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about the sixth hour. So it's the middle of the day, as we've already described. It's not really when they would be there. Women would be there drawing water. Normally, when a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, big taboo. Jews don't talk to Samaritans. Will you give me a drink? His disciples had gone into the town to buy food. There's John telling them why they weren't there. So now he's alone in talking to this woman, which is another taboo. The Samaritan woman said to him, you are a Jew and I'm a Samaritan woman. So she calls out both reasons why he shouldn't be talking to her. How can you ask me for a drink? And then John gives us the thought, for Jews do not associate with Samaritans. And we could go into the history, but it's a long history of why they don't. Verse 10. Jesus answered her. So there's the first deflection. By the way, if you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you For a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water, which, that's a mind blower, sir. The woman said, you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds? So there's another deflection back to what she had brought up earlier about Jacob. Jesus answered, everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, here's the money statement. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life. The woman said to him, sir, give me this water that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water. Again. She's back in the natural. She just ignores really the depth of what he said. He said. So now Jesus changed his tactics. He told her, well, go call your husband, come back. Which seems random, but now we're getting into the kitchen here. I have no husband, she replied, now he's fixing to blow her mind. Jesus said to her, you're right when you say you have no husband. Fact is, you've had five husbands and the man you now have is not your husband's. What you have said, just said is quite true. And I don't know if that's almost like a tongue in cheek response, like, yeah, you're telling the truth because you're finally now admitting where you are, sir. I can see you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain. But you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem. Just think a minute about how this shame works. He just told her about why she's there at noon and not associate with anybody else. And the first thing she goes into is a deep theological question.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, in a place which I think is going back to John 2, when they were talking about the temple and he was like, it's a person. You kill this and I'll raise it up in three days, you know, So I, I think that's why it's in here.

[Phil Robertson]

Another deflection. So verse 21, Jesus says, believe me, woman, a time is coming and will you worship the Father? Neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. By the way, this is a huge revelation that this is being made to this Samaritan woman. He hadn't said this yet.

[Jase Robertson]

It's not a place, right?

[Phil Robertson]

Basically, you Samaritans worship what you do not know we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth. Huge statement. Now the woman. Now the woman says, well, I know that Messiah called Christ is coming and when he comes, he will explain everything to us. There's another deflection about, by the way, because she's like, well, yeah, somebody's going to explain it.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, let's procrastinate this.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, let's just push it down.

[Jase Robertson]

I think it's not. She's not acknowledging that it's him.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly. And then he says. He drops the mic right here. I, who speak to you am he.

[Jase Robertson]

And I looked the Greek up. You know what it says there?

[Phil Robertson]

What?

[Jase Robertson]

He just says, I am.

[Phil Robertson]

I am. I was going to say this is another I am.

[Jase Robertson]

It's an I. He just says, I am.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, but you know, it's interesting as you're reading that, I was thinking Jace was talking about it's not a place. It's not a place. Which I totally agree, because the question here she's asking is, where is the place where we go to worship? Which kind of corresponds to where's the place we go to get water? And, like, we go. We get our fill at the temple, then we come home and then our spiritual water gets low, so we go back to the temple and it's like this. It's this continual back and forth and he's like, no, I'm going to, like, God's doing something new here. He's actually going to live inside people and going back to.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, he didn't quite say it like that, but that is the.

[Lisa Robertson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean, it's. It's. Well, what. What Lisa was talking about. Think about Lisa. When you were like. When you're dealing with your shame in that moment, like. Like if you were to, like, push that out, it's the opposite of being one with God. It was like hiding. I mean, that's how shame kind of manifested itself. I mean, I'm assuming that was how you felt. Like you didn't want to be known. Right? You didn't want. Because, like, what they'll say. I'd never heard that part of the story, but either column or convert them or tell them. So you're. Now you're having to hide because you're like, I don't want to get called what was that like? Just living in a constant state of hiding.

[Lisa Robertson]

Well, that was the. The two lives that were trying to. That I was trying to live at once. What is it, Al? You say you're a double secret agent sitting on the.

[Jase Robertson]

But I think that's where the love of darkness comes in. Because then all of a sudden, you kind of. You, you. It's like, what did the Morgan Freeman and the Shawshank Redemption. He was like telling. I don't remember this off the top of my head, but Mary, he was telling about the prison. Well, first you're scared and you try to get out of it, you know.

[Phil Robertson]

But it's like, then these walls start to become your security.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. He's like, then you depend on them.

[Phil Robertson]

You depend on those walls.

[Jase Robertson]

It's like you actually love them.

[Phil Robertson]

That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

At some point. That's right. And. And that's the disturbing part of our condition.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Jase Robertson]

And granted, it's temptation from the spiritual force that we talk about, but we convince ourselves, you know, oh, I'm. I'm smarter. I can figure this out. And you kind of love that process, you know.

[Phil Robertson]

And he has that time. He gets out and he's in the store working and he's bagging groceries and he says, hey, boss, can I go to the bathroom? The guy says, you don't have to keep asking me. And then he does this voiceover. He says, For 48 years, I couldn't go to the bathroom without being told when to go. He said, now, not a drop unless I'm told. And it was just that idea of being forced into that place. That's a great analogy.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, you become a slave. You become enslaved to what has been done to you and how you responded to it with your choice. I mean, I like how you depicted that you had something that happened, somebody else's sin affected you, but then, so what are you going to do about it? And now, well, then you just compounded it.

[Lisa Robertson]

I think you continue to live in the darkness because of the guilt and because if you ever told somebody exactly where you have been, you're afraid of what their response will be. I don't know that anybody continually loves to live in darkness. I think it's the fear of the light shining on them so that everybody can see. Yeah, that's what is in their life. That's exactly right.

[Jase Robertson]

That's why I said for her to have this transition so quickly because she wasn't going around. She was saying, he told me everything I ever did. Because that was still her perspective, which.

[Lisa Robertson]

He didn't tell her. He didn't tell her everything she ever did. He only told her about her sexual sins.

[Jase Robertson]

But he. I mean, she concluded he knows me.

[Phil Robertson]

That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

Which is why I think he brought up that about we, you know, you, when he says, you worship what you do not know. Because they were all in the place of it all. I mean, I did a little rabbit hole search of these places. What I found fascinating was that Jacob's well is still over there. They built a church bell Nova. I'm like, have you read John 4? I'm. I'm all for keeping the well. And look, I know a lot of people that have gone and visited. When I was in Israel, I didn't go because it's kind of on the wrong side of the track. And I Mean, if you go visit it, they recommend security. But I. I saw a picture of it, and I thought it was fascinating. But so when you go back to the Old Testament history, that's. That's what they thought. I mean, they. And. And people still, the last remaining Samaritans, they still worship on this mountain today. They have festivals there, whatever it's called, starts with a G. This mountain that she was referring to when she said, oh, yeah, Gerizim. Yeah, Gerizim. And when you go back and you remember Jacob's ladder, which they called Bethel, which they believe Bethel is in a different place because Abraham got the promise there. And so they're going back to this location, which is really what Jesus is making a transition to. But I wanted to say this also. And we didn't read the rest of the story because that really wasn't where it ended. You know, the disciples come back from town and they're like, you know, rabbi, you need to eat something. And then he gets into this about the food. I have food to eat that you know nothing about, which kind of goes in with the living water. And then this woman, she goes out telling everybody. And that last little paragraph says, many of the Samaritans in verse 39 from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, which there it is again. He told me everything I ever did. And so then the Samaritans came to him, which is a key phrase, and he stayed two days, and because of his words, many more became believers. They said to the woman, we no longer believe just because of what you said. Which was, he told me everything I ever did. Now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the savior of the world. Here's what I found fascinating. If you go back to the beginning of the story, and because I believe this is a very clever way of John describing how all people view Jesus. And if you look at the titles, this is really fascinating. It starts off with her thinking, he's just a Jew because I'm 4 9. She said, the Samaritan woman said, you're a Jew and I'm a Samaritan. Well, you can't be talking to me. That's where it started. He's just a Jew who's acting. He's not acting appropriately by talking to me in the middle of the day alone. You know, and especially since he claims to be some kind of spiritual figure.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, look, then. Now, his little comments made her. Then escalate it to sir, which I found this fascinating. She calls him sir in 11, 15, and 19. So now he's not just a Jew, but there's a little authority, which every other time this word is translated in the New Testament, I think, but one, it's Lord. So it's an authority, respectful. So we went from just a Jew to sir. Well, then when the confrontation happens, which we didn't talk about, but it was a confrontation because at this point, everything's beautiful. When he says that everyone who drinks the water will be. Drinks this water, will be thirsty again. But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give will become a spring of water welling up to eternal life. I mean, this is. Love is in the air.

[Phil Robertson]

Love is in bloom.

[Jase Robertson]

Beautiful. And then when the woman said, sir, give me this water, you know, so that I. I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here and then go call your husband and come back, she's like, oh, no. Really? That's what happened. Because it's a confrontation without condemning. But he confronted her life cleverly.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Because then he says, you know, I have no husband. You're right. But then watch what she says. Well, I can see you're a prophet.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

So now we've gone from just a Jew to sir, someone that I need to respect. Well, now you're a prophet. Prophet. So you continue on with the titles. And then she brings up in 4, 25. Well, I know that there is a messiah called Christ is coming when he comes. So. So that word dropped out, but she's still not directing it toward him. Well, there. Well, I know there was supposed to be a messiah. And then in verse, that's 25. And then 29. Watch this. When she said, come see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ? Now, she didn't just. But we've escalated again. We've gone from a Jew to sir to a prophet.

[Phil Robertson]

Maybe Messiah, maybe the Christ.

[Jase Robertson]

And then I think when the disciples come in. This is interesting. That's why I read that. Well, they're calling him teacher, which they said Rabbi, which is still. He is a great teacher. But where it ends and the reason I read it, Savior. When they said, he is the savior of the world. And I think that transition to us individually and collectively is really what this is about. It's like, he's the savior of the world. Yes, he's the Christ. Yes. He's a great teacher. Yes, he is Lord. Yes. He was a Jew. He was a human. And when I noticed that, I just Thought, man, that's awesome.

[Lisa Robertson]

But she had to. She had to have had a great hope that he was the messiah because she went back to town and instead of going into her home where nobody can see her, whisper about her, she goes out and tells everybody in the whole town.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, well, it freed her, you know, I think so she has a hope.

[Lisa Robertson]

That he's a messiah.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And a respectful figure had actually engaged her, loved her. And I think that just transformed her. I mean, just think how lonely she was. Think how shame filled she was. And here's. Even though there was a confrontation, you.

[Lisa Robertson]

Know, but there was also going back to Zach, to the guy that you were talking about. So whenever. Whenever he voiced what happened to him out loud and to another person, I believe that's whenever the release of the shame. That's whenever he was released of that shame because he could actually voice that to another person. So this woman here, so she says, I have no husband. Then he tells her, well, you're right, you don't. You've had five. Yeah, well, and the one you got now is not your husband. So she says, well, you're right. So she's confessing. So there has to be a confession before this shame and guilt can be released.

[Phil Robertson]

Lisa and I travel all around the fruited plains telling our story and really Jesus story as it's lived out through us. And so many times I've heard her tell about how alone that she felt and afraid when she found out that she was pregnant and it was an unplanned pregnancy. She was only 16 years old, and so in her case, she sought out an abortion. But what we want to do is try to help women just like Lisa find our good friends at Preborn Network clinics to be able to choose life and not be alone and not have to face this on their own. Preborn offers God's love and compassion to hurting women and then provides a free ultrasound to introduce them to the life growing inside their body. They have a lot of great stories to tell, and one of those is Maddie's story. Not our Maddie, but a Maddie who was in a tough situation as she wasn't sure who the father was. But after receiving counseling and prayer and a free ultrasound at Preborn Network Clinic, everything changed. Maddie discovered that she had twins and found the strength she needed to choose life. Her sorrows had been turned to joy and we love stories like that. So this ministry is so important. It's one of the favorite things that we are able to support on the Unashamed podcast. We're Glad you guys do as well. You're making a difference. Your tax deductible donation of $28 sponsors one ultrasound. So how many babies can you save? Please donate your best gift today. Just dial £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250, baby. Or go to preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed. someone is waiting for your help today.

[Lisa Robertson]

And that was her. She confessed it right there because she said, you're right.

[Phil Robertson]

And it's a faith moment.

[Lisa Robertson]

It's a faith moment. That's exactly right. So she. What happened to her was she was thinking, this, this could be the Christ. I've got to go back and tell everybody. I mean, you know, I've got to tell people. Because the shame was gone then. That darkness that had overtaken her for all those years was now gone. And she was able to go in and talk to people that she had never been able to face eye to eye before. And she was finally there. Same thing with your. With, with the guy you're talking about, Zack. Whenever he was finally able to confess what had happened to him, even though it was not his fault, whenever he was able to confess it, that's when God released that shame and that guilt in his life. It's when God released it in my life. Whenever I was able to tell Allen, because I had never told another person in my whole life all the things that had gone on whenever I had that truth vomit and I shared that with Allen in our bathroom that night, that's when the darkness left. That's when the shame was gone and the guilt was gone. Because that's what Christ does. He takes that away. And I then had hope. Now I was not. I didn't know what was going to happen, but I had hope. And anytime there's just a sliver of hope, Christ takes it away.

[Phil Robertson]

And Lisa tells it, when she went out behind our house and her temple moment was just laying out on the grass behind our house. It wasn't a church building. It wasn't a temple. It was just her and the Almighty. And something changed that night. And so for 25 years, this woman has been going to Samaritan villages all around America sharing what God has done. And then when I watch the results of that, we just watched a couple get up at our marriage refresh a month, mentioned him because the blind had had such an impact on his life. And so they were telling what God had done. And he got to this point in their story. And they're telling it and he just. You could see him, couldn't you, baby? Just physically. Just because it was his last bit of shame he'd been holding on to. He just hadn't released it. And then he told it, and it was a porn.

[Lisa Robertson]

He pulled his hat down.

[Phil Robertson]

He pulled his hat down low.

[Lisa Robertson]

Nobody could see his eyes.

[Phil Robertson]

And he was, like, looking down, and you could. We were physically watching this man with this last bit of shame. And then he talked about how that porn had gripped him and then how it had damaged him and his mindset and his wife and his marriage. So he tells about. He's crying and the wife is crying, and she looks at him. Here's what she said. I found this fascinating. She said, he's never said that in public before. And then she looked at him and she said, I'm so proud of you now. I mean, we're all in tears because I'm watching this unfolding. I thought, you know, that was the last grip the evil one has had on this man to keep him from being all he needed to be. And then we literally got to watch it, like, you know, pour out. And we've seen that many times in the past people just bury in their soul. And a lot of times it's just individuals.

[Zach Dasher]

It's like a. It's like a dam, you know, with all this water of pain and shame behind it that if you just. You said a sliver of hope. The way I see it, Lisa, is it's. It's a prick in the dam as a sliver of hope. And once you prick that, then that. It's like the tidal wave can come. And there could. Because you think about in. And John 3, verse 36, which is the last verse in John 3, right before we move into the story. He says, whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. It doesn't say will have eternal life. He says has eternal life. Like it's something that we possess actively. Now, whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. And I think that term wrath is more of a passive wrath of God. Kind of like that Romans passage where it says that God gave them over to themselves to do what ought not to be done. I said that his wrath is just like leaving you to do your own vices, to do what you want to do, and then the opposite of that is to be in obedience to him. So I think this moment going into the woman at the well is so pivotal, because if you think about your story, Lisa, of hiding Even when I was asking you about your experience, I was kind of like, well, but this is all of our experience. So like, your story may have gone a little deeper in some areas, but I, I didn't have a lot of things happen to me that happened to you. But my story is very similar in that I have hid and I don't want to be exposed. I don't want someone to read my mail. Like Jesus read this woman's mail. I mean, he read her mail. He like literally got in her mailbox, pulled it out and said, no, actually you've been married five times and the guy you live with now is not your husband. And she's like, whoa, okay, you must be a prophet. And he ends up telling her, I'm a whole lot more than a prophet.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, he brought her some truth, he told some truth.

[Zach Dasher]

It's truth and spirit. And so when he says that like she's trying to contain worship into a place on a mountain, which he, I mean, the Jews didn't even realize that as a legitimate place anyways. But even in Jesus's statement, you guys worship what you don't know. We worship what we do know for salvation is from the Jews. And then there's a three letter word that comes right after that. But yeah, I mean, but both of those context he said, but now something new is happening. God's, God's bringing intimacy to earth to people. Now he's really going to show us what worship truly looks like and what true worship is. It's, it's born out of a repentant heart. It's God coming back in it's connection. It's being known and knowing. And that's the thing, I think that that's our trajectory as Christians now is a, it's a journey of becoming known and understanding that. And you guys have coined this phrase. I think you coined it, you've said it a thousand times to me. We're going to detonate our own time bomb. You know what I mean?

[Phil Robertson]

And when you think about it, how many people have you talked to that tried to do just what this woman did? They're confronted with who they are to Jesus and they say, you know, I got to get back in church, read my Bible.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, but people believe the lie that if they know what I did, nobody would talk to me. Well, here's the creator of the world who obviously knows everything she's done and is having a conversation with her, which I think echoes what we read in John 3 when he said God didn't send his son into the world to condemn the world. I mean, if he was ever going to condemn somebody, she's got quite a few strikes here. But he sent his son to save the world. And whoever believes in him is not condemned. So of all the people you could have a conversation with and know everything that you've ever done and is still willing to have a creation. I mean, to have a conversation, you talking to the creator of the world. Because we all tend to be earthly in that God's a million miles away. He doesn't know what I'm doing because I don't believe he's there. And I think that's why it is about a person. And he has the conversation.

[Zach Dasher]

Let me say this one thing, because it is a lie. It's a lie. And even when Lisa, when you were telling your story, I thought that's a lie. You think about the, the absurdity of the lie that you believe that you are afraid that if you were to let yourself be known by Phil, that you would be cold. Well, I'm like, I could have just let you watch the blind and he would have seen this guy with an acquire boy. I mean like he of all people, like, like. I mean like. But the you, you in that setting, you thought, I can't be known here. But if you look at the setting of who you were afraid to be known by, he was probably worse than you were.

[Lisa Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

And I think that's the interesting thing about how the, the devil. That's what he says. I want you to hide. I don't want you to be known. Keep that a secret. Don't tell anybody. If they knew you, if they really knew you weirdo, you pervert, you. Whatever the accusation is.

[Lisa Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

You know, I. I think that the Lord's just like, let me just take that away. Just open it up. Be known. I'm going to be present. Even in your depravity. I'm present. Why you were enemies. I died for you.

[Phil Robertson]

Which is the ultimate. All right, we're almost out of time.

[Lisa Robertson]

Yeah. So I think compassion, the best thing for us to do in our daily life whenever we are helping other people, is to show Christ compassion. He did not say to this woman, you know, he didn't, he. He didn't condemn her. He didn't say, well, you know, you prostitute you, you know. But he didn't call her that. He told her what she did. And then he told her, I can give you living water. I can be the person, I can be the thing that you're looking for. So I think the most important thing for us to do every day is to show that same compassion to other people, especially in their darkness.

[Phil Robertson]

That's a good point.

[Jase Robertson]

I want to read this. This is Galatians 4, verse 8. And Paul says, formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not God's little g. But now that you know God and then I love this little dash, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? It's an ongoing yeah, thank God knows us. Deal with it in a positive he.

[Phil Robertson]

Knows our name well, we only scratched the surface. Our brother in law Tony Thomas has drawn has painted a picture of Jesus and the woman at the well. So check his I think it's Tony Thomas Art tonythomasart.com so check that out. But anyway, Lisa, thanks for coming on. Sure. I wish we'd had more time, but we scratched the surface of this great story. We'll pick it up next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.