← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
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- [00:02]
Jase Robertson
I am unashamed. What about you? Maybe that's your problem. While you're going blind and you don't feel. We. We had an interesting boy during the.
- [00:13]
Zach Robertson
In between these two episodes, Zach dropped.
- [00:16]
Jase Robertson
A word that I was not familiar with. I had to look it up. It's still on my computer screen. It's called entropy.
- [00:23]
Zach Robertson
Yeah.
- [00:24]
Jase Robertson
So then I read the definition, which I was more confused the. When I started.
- [00:28]
Phil Robertson
Well, tell them the context of how I said it. I think that'll help.
- [00:31]
Zach Robertson
Well, you were.
- [00:32]
Jase Robertson
I don't remember what you said.
- [00:34]
Phil Robertson
Well, you were talking about.
- [00:36]
Zach Robertson
You were stretching.
- [00:37]
Phil Robertson
Vision law. We were talking about age, and I said the one thing that we. None of us are going to escape is entropy.
- [00:44]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. So you said that, and all of a sudden I thought, I can't escape something that I don't know what it is. So that's why I couldn't escape, because someone would say, you're struggling with entropy. I would say, what'd you call?
- [00:59]
Zach Robertson
Well, it all started because Zach couldn't read the ads because he can't see now. And so Maddie, who's like 21 years old or whatever she is, she. She 23 years old, she's like, just make a bigger font. Like, she has no patience with our old man isms. And so she's telling Zach, just make your font bigger read. And then Zach stretching during the break in between, I was like, who stretches for a podcast?
- [01:24]
Jase Robertson
Well, let's do a test. Yeah, he was actually.
- [01:26]
Zach Robertson
Literally, he was stretching like I'm watching him on camera, and I was like, who stretches for a podcast when you're.
- [01:32]
Jase Robertson
Stretching so that you can sit down for an hour? Zach, how many fingers am I holding up?
- [01:39]
Phil Robertson
I can say you got two. I'd not increased the screen size.
- [01:44]
Jase Robertson
I read the second definition, which it. I missed one word. It said physics. Why didn't you just say that? Physics.
- [01:51]
Zach Robertson
Physics.
- [01:52]
Jase Robertson
It's all physics. And it's all physics. Physically.
- [01:55]
Zach Robertson
Yeah. Over time, we're going downhill. We go down.
- [01:58]
Jase Robertson
And we're doing this on purpose because it does kind of lead into what we're going to talk about.
- [02:02]
Zach Robertson
It really does.
- [02:03]
Jase Robertson
But I'll read the definition for the people who listen to Jace's redneck logic. It is a lack of order or predictability, gradual decline into disorder. So the body. That's what happens.
- [02:21]
Zach Robertson
Yep.
- [02:22]
Jase Robertson
So, yeah.
- [02:23]
Phil Robertson
Another way of saying it is that things tear up over time.
- [02:28]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, well, exactly.
- [02:29]
Phil Robertson
They just. But you know what's interesting about this word entropy, the reason why I use it a lot is probably about 20 years ago, when I got into apologetics, one of the writers I was reading about was using this. It's a scientific fact. I mean, it's a law of the universe. It's actually the second law of, of thermodynamics, which is about heat and matter and thermo thing of thermo heat. But imagine the universe and every star in the universe is like a campfire. And with any campfire, if you sit around it long enough and you don't add wood to it, what happens to it?
- [03:09]
Zach Robertson
Burns out.
- [03:10]
Phil Robertson
It burns out. So that's entropy that over. What it's trying to do is the campfire is trying to get to the same temperature as everything around it, which is called equilibrium. And so the, the philosophers looked at this and they said, you know, the past has to have a beginning, like Genesis 1 has to be. The Christian philosophers have said this, that the Genesis 1 has to be true because the past has to have a beginning. It can't be like this eternal regression of. There has to be a beginning to all this because of the second law of thermodynamics, because given enough time, every fire in the universe will eventually burn out, but they're clearly not burned out because we still have the sun that gives us heat and a lot of other stars as well, which means that we haven't been here for an infinite amount of time because if we had been, there wouldn't be any heat left. And so we actually can look at entropy as a tremendous example and evidence for the existence of the truth claims of the Bible because it points to the fact that the universe began to exist. It hasn't always been here.
- [04:15]
Jase Robertson
Do you want me to translate that for you?
- [04:17]
Zach Robertson
Yeah. Can you translate it?
- [04:18]
Jase Robertson
No, I'm going to give you the translation for all the simple minded people out there. Someone started the fire. That's number one.
- [04:27]
Phil Robertson
That's it.
- [04:27]
Jase Robertson
Number two, there are humans who sit around a fire and then there are humans that go get something to put on the fire. That would be my camp. While you're sitting before you do some stretching so you can sit around the fire.
- [04:42]
Phil Robertson
You can bring, you're going to bring some, some doc and deer and some, something to roast over the fire, you know.
- [04:48]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, I got that from Jesus. You know, post, it takes all kind.
- [04:52]
Phil Robertson
Of people that we need. We all, we need each other. You know what I mean?
- [04:57]
Jase Robertson
I don't know about the first. What was one of the first things Jesus did post resurrection?
- [05:03]
Phil Robertson
He ate.
- [05:04]
Jase Robertson
He started a fire.
- [05:05]
Zach Robertson
Started a fire.
- [05:05]
Jase Robertson
Oh, the fire came first, and we've.
- [05:10]
Zach Robertson
Been on fire ever since.
- [05:11]
Jase Robertson
So you know why he did that? Crickets. Because he could.
- [05:18]
Zach Robertson
Because he could. He may have just touched it. He may have just touched it. We don't know that.
- [05:26]
Jase Robertson
Dead men don't start fires.
- [05:28]
Phil Robertson
That.
- [05:28]
Jase Robertson
That's where I'm going.
- [05:29]
Phil Robertson
They don't do that.
- [05:30]
Jase Robertson
They don't eat feast either.
- [05:33]
Zach Robertson
So, Zach, that you. When you were saying that, it took me back to. You remember the. I think it was for this podcast, but now that I'm sitting there, I'm not sure if it was that or in the woods with Phil. One of the two kickoffs. You filmed a video of dad in the woods. Was that for in the woods with Phil?
- [05:53]
Phil Robertson
Yeah, that was our first. Yeah, I remember that.
- [05:55]
Zach Robertson
Yeah. It was like. It was like a thing we put out there to, like, draw people's attention, and it was a fire. He. He started this fire in the woods. It was a Beautifully done. The guy that was our cinematographer back then worked on the movie that we did, which was called Torchbearer.
- [06:11]
Phil Robertson
Yep. Casey.
- [06:12]
Zach Robertson
Yeah, Casey. And it was a beautiful shot of dad in the woods. It was at night, and this fire is just rolling, you know, and it starts. Remember that, Zach? It started in the wizard fields. Really?
- [06:24]
Phil Robertson
I'm trying to think of what he said. It was.
- [06:26]
Zach Robertson
Oh, it was classic dad.
- [06:28]
Jase Robertson
Well, was that. We said on last podcast, we'd say what Zach did when he came here, which one of the things. We haven't given an update on my parents lately, and tell you the truth, it hasn't been good, but for my mom, it's been a lot better this past week.
- [06:47]
Zach Robertson
Yeah.
- [06:48]
Jase Robertson
Because she was really not doing good. She got an infection from a fall from a cut that had happened earlier.
- [06:55]
Zach Robertson
And she was in the hospital for 11 days. So.
- [06:58]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. But she's. Now. She's still in the hospital, but it's more rehab. Yeah, rehab. Physically trying. Trying to get her to eat and. But we were kind of dealing with the fact that maybe this is it. I mean, that's what it seemed like. It was almost.
- [07:12]
Zach Robertson
It seemed close there. Yeah.
- [07:14]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. So. So it was difficult. And my dad, you know when people say. Because that's number one question. I get everywhere I go, and they're like, how's your dad doing? And I. Now I'm just giving the blunt truth. I say, not good.
- [07:26]
Zach Robertson
That's what I said.
- [07:27]
Jase Robertson
And so. But it's. It's overwhelming. But Zach visited both our parents. I pulled in.
- [07:36]
Zach Robertson
Because you hadn't been down in a minute, Jose.
- [07:38]
Phil Robertson
No, it's been a while. I mean, it's been.
- [07:40]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, I pulled in when Zach was coming out, so he's kind of stuck his head in the window, you know, and. Because we've had to get him some professional care. And I was like, how'd that go? And Zach just lost it, you know, and it. I kind of realized in that moment, when you're in these battles day by day, you kind of compartmentalize everything just so you can deal with it. I mean, it reminds me in a way of like, my daughter, she'd go through those surgeries and I was kind of a basket case first few times, but after a while, you're just like, well, I gotta do the best I can and be a rock for. And so that's kind of what we're doing, you know, with my dad.
- [08:19]
Zach Robertson
And then Zach has the added thing of, you know, he went through this with his mom a few years ago. So it's all. I had this conversation with Gordon, Zach's dad, because it's almost like some version of ptsd, because you go back there and you think about all the time, you had to be the one like we are as the kids, having to go through the hardest moments and yet be strong and, you know, try to provide the right care. So it's a. It's a double whammy.
- [08:45]
Jase Robertson
But we're giving them, we're making them comfortable and, you know, we're doing the best we can. And so I think that's just what you do.
- [08:56]
Phil Robertson
One of the things that we hold dear here on this podcast is we really do believe in long term discipleship. You know, what Eugene Peterson called a long obedience in the same direction. And that's why we love our partners at the Tomorrow Clubs, because over a billion children in the world are growing up in spiritual darkness, having never heard the gospel. But our friends at Tomorrow Clubs are helping the gospel reach those children. Tomorrow Club started in Ukraine back in 1997, and they've grown to become the. The country's largest children's ministry. And three years ago, war in Ukraine turned everything upside down. Families were torn apart, communities were shattered. But in the midst of it all, God opened doors. In partnership with local churches, Tomorrow Clubs have reached more children and families than ever before. And. And as these families were forced to flee their homes, Tomorrow Clubs offered hope and discipleship to kids facing unimaginable hardship. And today, against all odds, the ministry in Ukraine is growing and it's thriving. Nearly 14,000 kids now gather each week to learn what it means to follow Jesus. Is that not amazing? You know, that matches up with what we want to be a part of here in the Unashamed podcast is we believe in long term discipleship, relationships, partnering with local churches and the importance of raising up the next generation in faith. And we are inviting our unashamed listeners to become a Tomorrow Club's ministry partner by sponsoring 30 or more kids with a monthly donation of just $1 per child. Just $1 per child per month to bring the life changing hope of the gospel to young people in places like the war torn country of Ukraine. Go to TomorrowClubs.org Unashamed today to learn more and become a Tomorrow Club's ministry partner. That's TomorrowClubs.org unashamed he was watching westerns when I walked in the, in the bedroom. He was sitting there watching a western movie and. But yeah, it was, I think when you're in it like you guys are it, you're seeing the fade. I hadn't been around and I hadn't seen him a few months. So I come in, it's like, whoa. Which I remember when Sai came up to see my mom.
- [11:08]
Zach Robertson
Yeah.
- [11:09]
Phil Robertson
And he walked in to see her and of course, you know, he just, I mean he was like me with you yesterday, Jason. He just lost it. We hugged each other and cried together, but it's because he hadn't seen her and that he had never, you know, so I think it's. You have an image in your mind. I, I've said this a lot about dementia and Alzheimer's. I think anyone in our audience who's gone through it, well, this will resonate with them that we talk a lot about how it steals the memories of the ones who have the disease. But for me, it also steals the memory of the one caring for, for the people have the disease. Because you're seeing this slow progression over time and it just, it's hard to watch. But when you come in, it's a little more shocking when you see it, you know, in real life. But yeah, I lost it. It was, it was, it was a kind of a tough trip. I didn't anticipate that. I didn't anticipate, you know, either breaking down on you either, Jace.
- [12:03]
Jase Robertson
But yeah, well, it's just, it's, it's been tough, but we appreciate the prayers and look, the bottom line is, I mean we've been talking about these signs and even we went the story on the last podcast talking about Hezekiah more years and you know, at some point Hezekiah died. I mean, this is the hand we're dealt. And there's a spark. Zach and I talked about this, which was really powerful. There's a spark, you know, of hope in both my parents that at their lowest moments during this process, which my mom's on a upswing now, which is awesome. You still see that spark. Yeah, it's in there. And, you know, it's the spirit of God. So, you know, we're all going to be faced with entropy because we're living on a planet where everything decays and dies.
- [12:59]
Zach Robertson
And it's not only the Holy Spirit, which is the most important one, but it's also love for each other. And, you know, Zach, you were involved in the blind, which was a story of where they came from. But, you know, they've been together 60 years now, and they haven't been able to be together in proximity for a few weeks. But when they FaceTime each other, which we've been doing that quite frequently because they're in different places, the spark that comes in both of their eyes when they see one another is really touching. I mean, it reminds you of the blessing we get on Earth to have somebody to carry burdens with in the beauty of marriage and relationship. And to be honest, that's really Dad's only consistent North Star is usually Mom.
- [13:38]
Phil Robertson
What did he tell you, Jace, when you were there, about the message to get that was funny.
- [13:44]
Jase Robertson
About the Navy?
- [13:45]
Phil Robertson
No, the one way he said, tell her to call me.
- [13:49]
Jase Robertson
Oh, yeah, no, he got his. Got a pen out. And he was like. Which was really the most intelligent thing he had of the conversation. He's like, hey, now, when you see her. Because what we've been doing is we'll cook a meal.
- [14:01]
Phil Robertson
Pretty much, she's in a hospital setting.
- [14:05]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. And she just hasn't been eating. And so Missy's like, well, what do you want? What is your. What will you eat if I cook it? And. And she wanted the meatloaf and mashed.
- [14:18]
Zach Robertson
Potatoes, which is her recipe, which is.
- [14:20]
Jase Robertson
So we. Yeah, we took it to Phil first, and he was 8, just like, you know, he went to town on it. And. Okay, might have taken five or six bites, which was five or six more bites than she's been taking. But so. But when I was at Phil's, I was like, well, we're gonna go see Kay, because we're trying to get them back together, but they're both dealing with severe issues. So he said, well, hey, you got a pin out. And he's like, now make sure you tell her to call me. Well, I'm like, well, Phil, you don't have a phone. He said, yep, but let me write it down, because I'll forget. I was like, but, Phil, you don't have a phone. He's like, let me write it down. So I was like, look, how about we just handle it? We'll take care of it. And he finally said, well, why didn't you say so? You know, it's just hard to have a conversation sometimes, you know, because I'm like, writing this number because as long.
- [15:21]
Zach Robertson
As you out there know when you have these moments with Alzheimer's patients. So. Because he was telling me one the last time I saw him about that, he didn't understand why he had trouble remembering stuff. And I was like, well, dad, you have a disease, and, you know, it affects your brain. I'm trying to, like, explain it. And he looked at me, he said, I know it. Yeah, like, I get it. And so in the moment, it's just that frustration. But, you know, he has a hard time now.
- [15:44]
Jase Robertson
I'm not sure at this stage. Yeah, I don't. I don't think he's aware of that. But, I mean, you just do the best you can. And it's a. Yeah.
- [15:54]
Phil Robertson
It reminds me of that verse, or in Ecclesiastes, where it says that God has put eternity in the hearts of men. And then there's that. Psalms 90, teach us, Lord, to number our days. I think it says so that we might gain certain wisdom. And I think that it's. It is really important to contemplate your own mortality. I mean, I think you see it when you have loved ones facing stuff. But, Jason, you made this point before. We're going through the Gospel of John. Every one of the people that got healed, they eventually didn't get healed. We are part of a bigger story and this side of the Second Coming. So we emphasize the kingdom is here a lot on this podcast, but we also need to remember that it's not fully here. There is going to be a full consummation later.
- [16:47]
Zach Robertson
Well, and it was like the Apostle Paul, Zach. I was just doing a sermon Sunday in Kentucky, and the guy that preached it, one of the last verses he read was Paul telling Timothy, you know, I'm already being poured out like a drink offering. And that really struck me because I've been thinking a lot about mom and dad and praying, and I thought, you know, Paul got to the. He knew. He knew the end was coming, and you won't do any more than he was doing for the kingdom. I mean, most of the books of the New Testament he wrote. And so he realized it in the moment and said, look, it's poured out. And it hit me in that moment, I thought, you know what, my dad's been pouring it out for 50 years. You talking about an all in person. And wherever we get to in this journey, we realize that at some point we pour it out and then we cross over. I mean, this is going to happen to every one of us.
- [17:35]
Jase Robertson
Well, even in the last chapter of the book of John, there's a little tension there about Peter. Jesus starts talking about his death and he's like, well, and then he's looking at John, assuming, oh, what about him? How come he's not going to die? Said if I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? Follow me. So you know, it, I, I think we're, we're all about looking at things that happen on the earth and realize God is still reigning by giving us the spirit as a deposit, you know, guaranteeing our inheritance. And even through the struggle, my dad has the Holy Spirit of God, my mom has the Holy Spirit of God. I mean, death has become a glitch that was a snap of the fingers, you know, but this is part of the journey and part of the life. I mean, God introduced this new creation to us that we have the spirit. And that's why I said, you can see people that are doing this on a daily basis with my parents. Oh, it's there. You see the spark, you see the spirit.
- [18:49]
Phil Robertson
So when, you know, you know, on the. He had a little nightstand when I walked in. I mean, you guys are there a lot more than I am, but he had three things on the nightstand that was interesting. And this sums up kind of his life. The biggest item on the stand was the Bible.
- [19:05]
Zach Robertson
The Bible?
- [19:05]
Phil Robertson
Yeah, the Bible. The second biggest was a book about duck species, which I thought was funny.
- [19:10]
Jase Robertson
Well, somebody sent that, some listener sent that to give to my dad. And I'm grateful because he really likes that. It was like written and when he was a. It was like 1970. It was, yeah. In his mind, he kind of went through a stage there where it was like 1970. So. Yeah. And then what's the other thing?
- [19:32]
Phil Robertson
The one that I should have suspected, but it was kind of the one that kind of hit me was it was a glass of tea. Yeah, he's got all the essentials. He's got what he needs.
- [19:43]
Jase Robertson
Well, I came in there a couple days ago and said, just letting you know what today is whatever. I read the date off my phone, you know, and he was like, 2025? Are you kidding me? I was like, yeah, it's 2025. I was like. And so I did his speech that we've heard a thousand times. I said, look, it's 20, 25 years since Jesus was here on the Earth. And he was like, hold it, hold it. And so he started lusting. What are you looking for, Phil? And he just. He wouldn't say because he couldn't think of the name or what he was looking for, which turned out to be a pen. And he said, I need to write this down.
- [20:27]
Phil Robertson
So I told you that's good material.
- [20:29]
Jase Robertson
So I started. Wait. Well, he kept writing. And I never looked at what he wrote, but I was scared to look. But I just thought, you know, he's forgotten. He was thought, this is awesome. And I'm like, phil, you've said this a thousand times.
- [20:45]
Zach Robertson
This was your stuff.
- [20:47]
Jase Robertson
And so then I just thought, I'm going to keep going with this. I was like, you know what time it is in China? And I said that, yeah, like the same date. And he's like, hang on, hang on.
- [20:58]
Zach Robertson
What I love about that is dad recognized a good sermon when he hears one.
- [21:05]
Jase Robertson
You know the problem trees are?
- [21:07]
Phil Robertson
What's that?
- [21:08]
Jase Robertson
They grow too slow.
- [21:12]
Zach Robertson
It's clever.
- [21:13]
Jase Robertson
Now we have a company. Their motto is Fast Growing Trees. I've gone on record saying I would never hug a tree. However, if one could go fast, I might actually hug it.
- [21:26]
Phil Robertson
Well, fellow, springtime is here. Time to get out in the yard. Have you got out in your yard yet, Al?
- [21:31]
Zach Robertson
I have. And especially down here in the southern layer, this is where Lisa and I do our best yard work. And Fast Growing Trees is a big part of that because they've sent me some palm trees, some fruit trees, and so I'm definitely busy doing my spring work outside.
- [21:46]
Phil Robertson
Fast Growing Trees is the biggest online nursery in the US with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers, two of which are right here, Al and myself. I planted the Leland cypress. Fast Growing Trees offers a variety of plants, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, they got shrubs, all tailored to meat your needs, your climate, your space. And there's an easy online ordering process and quick delivery straight to your door. Plus, with their alive and thrive guarantee and their expert support, your plants will arrive healthy, and you'll receive guidance on choosing the right plants for your yard. Big yard, small yard, doesn't matter. Fast Green trees has over 6,000 plants that can fit Any space that you have, from indoor plants to fruit trees to full size privacy trees and more. This spring they had the best deal for your yard, up to half off selected plants and other deals. And our listeners get an additional 15% off their first purchase when using the code unashamed at checkout. That's an additional 15% off at fast growing trees.com using the code unashamed at checkout. Fast growing trees.com code unashamed Now's the perfect time to plant. Use unashamed to save today offers valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.
- [23:03]
Jase Robertson
Well, it kind of hit me in the moment, as frustrating as it is about them forgetting things and not being aware of their condition or their surroundings. You literally can tell any good news every day and that they act like it's the first time they ever heard it.
- [23:21]
Zach Robertson
It's almost new every day.
- [23:22]
Jase Robertson
I think it's more a perspective, kind.
- [23:25]
Zach Robertson
Of like that, that that verse. And is it Jeremiah that lamentations says that new mercies are born every morning?
- [23:32]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [23:33]
Zach Robertson
And that's a good way of looking at life too.
- [23:35]
Jase Robertson
But we're still praying. And like you say, hey, we're not underestimating the power of God. He can do what he wants to. And I'm really grateful that I think he's healed my mom in a way, because it just was looking really grim. But. And that's why we haven't been talking about it, because I thought this could go either way here. But she's really bouncing back and seems to be doing better.
- [23:57]
Zach Robertson
Yeah. And I know some of you out there have struggled because you sent me notes telling me that, you know, why aren't you speaking more life into them? Jay talked about Hezekiah on the last one, the 15 more years. You understand when heaven comes to earth and you recognize and the spirit of God lives in you, we already understand the grasp of eternity. And 78 years seemed like a long time till it didn't.
- [24:22]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [24:23]
Zach Robertson
You know what I'm saying? It's just like for me, 60 years seemed like an old man until I turned 60.
- [24:28]
Jase Robertson
Well, and people are commenting from a perspective. They don't know the context.
- [24:32]
Zach Robertson
And I get it. I understand.
- [24:34]
Jase Robertson
And I'm not angry about it. I'm like, we've given them the greatest care that they have, teams of medical professionals and teams of people who are praying and we're reading scripture and we're doing all the things that I think are the right way to do it. And you know, as in my dad's case, I mean, he exercises, he eats, he's being checked out on a daily basis, you know, and just there's no improvement. I mean, this gone on for months. And so. Well, what do you do? You know, you just do what. Whatever hand you're doing.
- [25:09]
Zach Robertson
Well, and. And look, I've quoted that many, many times as he said it over and over, and I've told him this. Now, in this new era we're in, the resurrection looms large. How many times has he said that on this podcast? So we understand the crossover in eternity. So just believe us in saying that we understand eternity and the value of it, and we're already living in it now. We understand it.
- [25:33]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. And where we're at in the text, I mean, we just did a whole podcast about look at where the signs are pointing. I mean, yes, Jesus was given a glimpse of the kingdom, his kingdom, which is there's a new creation that is being formed, and he's introducing that. He's showing what it means to be in the presence of the king. Look, he's healing people. He's doing miracles. That's all pointing to him being from the Son of God. But what he plans on doing for each individual on the cross and the resurrection and ultimately pouring out his spirit and being seated at the right hand of God as the head of the church. I mean, this is what is the game changer. Those signs are pointing to who he is, and time no longer matters after that. Well, we're going to live eternally is my point.
- [26:28]
Zach Robertson
Eternal life keeps coming up, and it's understanding. You mentioned it in the last podcast of the word becoming flesh that really becomes the key. And I think that's the point John's trying to make, because he's already said, look, he goes back to Galilee, and at first, because they've seen good things, they're like, oh, yeah, we love this guy. He's a hometown hero until he starts into who he really is. And then it's like, wait a minute, you know? And that's when he got into about not being accepted.
- [26:54]
Jase Robertson
Well, that's my point. Look, when you read this last miracle that we left off, he healed this royal official son, and he just said it, which I think that's why the disciples had a misrepresentation of what Jesus was going to bring, because you got to think about it. He changed water to wine, and now all of a sudden, he's able to say something. Well, think if you were looking for a king that was going to take on other kingdoms in a warlike Fashion. Well, if you had Jesus on your side, you're like, they can't starve us out. I mean, this dude can just get you something to drink out of thin.
- [27:35]
Zach Robertson
Air and can speed and it can literally bring food from little into enough to feed.
- [27:41]
Jase Robertson
Well, that's going to happen.
- [27:42]
Zach Robertson
John 6.
- [27:43]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. When you put all those pieces, it's like, this is the ultimate warrior. Because if somebody gets stabbed on the battlefield, he can just say, be healed.
- [27:52]
Zach Robertson
Yeah.
- [27:52]
Jase Robertson
And then he's healed. I mean, I. In their mind, I think that's what they're thinking. But what it's really pointing to is if Jesus is who he is. Well, death, our view of death changes here because it's like if he has that kind of power, which is. This is where we're going in the signs. When he gets to the seventh sign, he raises a man from the dead.
- [28:16]
Zach Robertson
His last one was the resurrection.
- [28:18]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. I'll just give you what a great.
- [28:20]
Phil Robertson
What a great point, though. I mean, and that's why the argument that Paul makes, you're looking for the signs. He said the Jews look for the signs and the Greeks demand wisdom. But we preach Christ crucified, meaning we preach a Christ who died. Why would we preach that? Because he didn't stay dead. I mean, that's the big thing that's happening here in Scripture. And Christianity gives us. It's not just that you don't avoid death as a Christian, you conquer death. And that's a big difference.
- [28:53]
Jase Robertson
And now we're talking. And that's what our third Psalm's going to be about in John 5, because it really becomes not so much about the healing, but more about he did it on the Sabbath. And so now he's gonna. This third sign is gonna be that this new Sabbath is the fulfillment of the original picture of the Sabbath, which goes all the way back to creation. John didn't do this by accident. What did he do when he introduced Jesus? He's like, in the beginning, well, you remember the story of creation, and then God rested, and then they, as God's chosen nation, observe the Sabbath. And it was like a day of rest and fulfillment and celebration. And so he's going to make that the sign that there's a new Sabbath that he's introducing, which a lot of people have missed.
- [29:48]
Zach Robertson
Yeah.
- [29:49]
Jase Robertson
So you may read this.
- [29:50]
Zach Robertson
Yeah.
- [29:50]
Jase Robertson
John 5.
- [29:52]
Zach Robertson
And remember, this is coming off of the. I believe Jesus is right on the money, because we've talked about the temple, which if you look at it and you see this idea of the ultimate Jewish Establishment. It's that. And now we're fixing to go into another sacred thing, and that's the Sabbath. So I think he's showing his authority what he's conquering here.
- [30:12]
Jase Robertson
And this sign that the Sabbath is pointing to, what Jesus gives you as far as the new Sabbath, I mean, it is a game changer.
- [30:21]
Zach Robertson
That's good.
- [30:21]
Jase Robertson
Now, look, I'm not going to read the whole chapter, but what happens is this story triggered resistance and Jesus basically gives a sermon and then he gives another sermon based on this.
- [30:36]
Zach Robertson
So we're probably at least go through 18.
- [30:38]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, we're not going to be able to cover all this, but I think it would be good for you to read the whole chapter. Yeah. And get a feel for this.
- [30:48]
Zach Robertson
It's going to spark a lot of conversation from Jesus.
- [30:52]
Jase Robertson
This is one place where you can't just read the first paragraph because he actually has little nuggets that he's going to get into based on what just happened. But we'll just introduce it today. So John 5, third sign. Here we go. Sometime later, Jesus went up to Jerusalem for one of the Jewish festivals, which is a key point because they all gathered up, meaning there were hundreds of people, if not thousands, probably thousands. Now there is in Jerusalem, near the Sheep Gate, a pool which is Aramaic. In Aramaic is called Bethesda. Bethesda. I have a hard time saying that.
- [31:32]
Zach Robertson
Well, there's a Bethsaida in here too. That throws you off.
- [31:35]
Jase Robertson
Okay.
- [31:36]
Zach Robertson
Yeah, Bethesda.
- [31:37]
Jase Robertson
Bethesda. And which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. Here a great number of disabled people used to lie. The blind, the lame, the paralyzed. One who was there had been an invalid for 38 years. When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in the condition for a long time, he asked him, this is our fourth question. I did this on the last podcast we're making. What are we making? A collage of questions in Book of John.
- [32:09]
Zach Robertson
Because I already got one sermon. What do you seek? Will you give me a drink? Why do you involve me? Or why do you involve me? Will you give me a drink? And do you want to get well?
- [32:20]
Jase Robertson
Do you want to get well? It's pretty good.
- [32:21]
Zach Robertson
That's a good sermon.
- [32:22]
Jase Robertson
Verse seven, sir. The invalid replied, I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I'm trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me. And you sense a little self pity there. But understandably, the man has been crippled for 38 years.
- [32:40]
Zach Robertson
An invalid, which by the way, is that's longer than the lifetime expectancy of this era.
- [32:47]
Jase Robertson
I mean, I'm fixing to make a point about that. So just.
- [32:50]
Zach Robertson
Yeah, okay.
- [32:51]
Jase Robertson
Okay. So where'd I leave off?
- [32:54]
Zach Robertson
Verse 8.
- [32:55]
Jase Robertson
So verse 8. Then Jesus said to him, get up, pick up your mat and walk at once. The man was cured. He picked up his mat and walked.
- [33:09]
Phil Robertson
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- [34:27]
Jase Robertson
That's basically it. It was like quick.
- [34:31]
Zach Robertson
Nothing about faith.
- [34:33]
Jase Robertson
It's like healing gone to bam. So then watch what happens. The day on which this took place was a Sabbath. So, you know, he made a point to do this because look, this guy's been laying here for 38 years. What's one more day? So it wasn't like Jesus couldn't have waited that he knew because there was a sign here that he's pointing to about, you know, the kingdom. Here's what the kingdom's going to look like, the new creation. And so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, it is the Sabbath. The law forbids you to carry your mat. And so I looked up a little list. There was all kinds of things.
- [35:14]
Zach Robertson
There's 39 different things in one list. I looked At.
- [35:19]
Jase Robertson
Yep. But he replied, the man who made me well said to me, pick up your mat and walk. So they asked him, well, who is this fellow? Which you gotta remember, this is the theme of John. Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk? The man who was healed had no idea who it was for. Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there. I was like, he just got healed and bam. Later Jesus found him, which I love this. This part of the story at the temple and said to him, because it's probably the first time he'd been in the temple in 38 years.
- [35:57]
Zach Robertson
Yeah, well, you know, it was because he would have never been allowed in.
- [36:01]
Jase Robertson
See, you are well again. Now watch this statement. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you. The man went away and told the Jewish leaders that it was Jesus who had made him well.
- [36:14]
Zach Robertson
So now he knew.
- [36:15]
Jase Robertson
So because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. In his defense, Jesus said to them, my Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working for this reason. They tried all the more to kill him. Not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God, his own Father, making himself equal with God. There's a lot to unpack there. Because their impression was like, God's still resting. Remember the seventh day, he made everything and he's. We thought that was it.
- [36:52]
Zach Robertson
Yeah.
- [36:52]
Jase Robertson
And then all of a sudden, a guy, a human being they're looking at says, oh, no, we're working. He's my father. You did this on the Sabbath. So there's a lot of rabbit holes to go down here.
- [37:03]
Zach Robertson
Well, one of the things I wanted to mention was this is something new I learned. And, you know, there's a lot of opinion out in the scholarly world, but one of the pictures I saw in one of the books that I've been reading alongside of this was there's a pool that looks a lot like this because of the description of the colonnades and everything there. And it's kind of north of the temple, but it's close. It's like within the shadow of the temple. So it had been close to the temple, if this is the place it was. And they're not 100% sure.
- [37:32]
Jase Robertson
I think they're pretty sure.
- [37:33]
Zach Robertson
Well, and I think it is for sure. There's. There's differing opinion, but I think they're right. It's called the Asclepion, which is after Asclepius, who is a Greek God. Of medicine. And so the idea was you probably read the same stuff that this was. A lot of pagans would gather here.
- [37:52]
Jase Robertson
Exactly. Which is why. Yeah, I read the same stuff. Which is why they think Jesus picked this place.
- [37:58]
Zach Robertson
That's what I thought.
- [37:59]
Jase Robertson
Because he's like picking a fight with the. Because you got to remember in our culture now, I don't know when this started happening. Zach may know everything about Jesus became about just him doing away with our sin. Yeah, but if you read the Bible, there's a lot more to it than just that. I mean he's taken on the evil powers. Think the. Think Ephesians.
- [38:26]
Phil Robertson
There's a cosmic battle, there's a meta.
- [38:29]
Jase Robertson
No doubt.
- [38:31]
Phil Robertson
I totally agree. I think that happened. I don't. There's a lot, a lot of discussion here.
- [38:36]
Jase Robertson
Well think to go back to the Ten Commandments. You'll have no other God before me. Well, how many Tom says that been violated?
- [38:45]
Zach Robertson
There were whole cultures built on whole God characters. Exactly.
- [38:50]
Phil Robertson
He does save us from our sins personally, but he's also. We're being invited into part of a cosmic battle. We're being invited into something much bigger than just our individual selves. Think about that Ephesians 3 passage when it says that through the church the colorful or the manifold wisdom of God is made known to the. I think it says the principalities and the rulers in the heavenly realms.
- [39:15]
Jase Robertson
Well, exactly.
- [39:17]
Phil Robertson
We're doing more than just. It's not that we don't. We are saved from our sin by Jesus, but we're also saved to something. And there's a bigger thing going on here.
- [39:25]
Zach Robertson
So the point. NT Wright made this point, which I thought was really rich, that Jesus would swoop into this place that was rife with pagans. No good Jew would ever go here. But obviously there were some Jews there. Like this guy who's been there for 38 years and he swoops in and he heals this guy and then the guy goes back to the temple. Eventually that's where Jesus runs into. And the idea is that NT Wright makes the point is John continues this idea of the kingdom expansion and the idea God came here for a reason. It was beyond just the Jewish people, even though this guy was a Jew. And this would spark the whole thing about the Sabbath and everything was going to happen as a result of it. But I love that picture. I had never thought about that before. That this is just like the Samaritan woman. This is another idea that Jesus came here with. Idea that all people could find salvation.
- [40:16]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, it's Kind of like what we talked about before on some podcasts where when, when Peter famously said, when Jesus said, who do you say I am? He said, you're the Christ, the son of the living God. But he. They were at a place where basically the equivalent of satanic worship was going on.
- [40:36]
Zach Robertson
Right.
- [40:36]
Jase Robertson
You know, and on this rock. And so some of these scholars, they're like saying the rock was right right here where all this demonology was taught. And the. Why is he doing that? Well, the same. Same thing. And the transfiguration also, it was supposedly the land, the realm of the dead at the foot of the mountain where all these. These philosophies were coming up. And I think it was Jesus saying, I'm, you know, picking a fight, whatever you want to say, I'm here to take you on. But meanwhile, not realizing and not giving away the fact that his death would actually be their demise, because that was their go to was if there's a threat, you just kill them. That's why this is the realm of the dead.
- [41:27]
Zach Robertson
And I think is this the first time we've seen that used where they're starting to say this guy needs to. Something needs to be done about him.
- [41:34]
Jase Robertson
Well, right. And you just see right here they're threatening to kill him because that's what you do. But. And these were supposedly religious people. But. And I thought NT Wright in his commentary made another good point about when the garden. When the Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden. Which. So here you have this place where God and humans are living together.
- [41:57]
Zach Robertson
Yeah.
- [41:58]
Jase Robertson
And when they're kicked out. Well, death. Think Romans 5 came to all men now because you've lost access to this tree of life and we're estranged, which is really why the evil one became the Lord of the dead. Which makes passages make more sense where it says he was the murderer from the beginning. And when Jesus came, he came to destroy him who had the power of death. That is the devil. That's Hebrews 2. But I'd never thought about the symbolism. So it says God put a cherubim and a flaming sword to protect the entrance back into the garden. Well, he made a. You know, and look, I don't. It's the first time I had really thought about that. And he was like, only death. You know, Jesus's death could break that down. And he made the illustration about when Jesus died. The curtain was ripped in two because it was symbolic of the cherubim and the flaming sword, I guess, of death.
- [42:57]
Phil Robertson
I'm preaching on that in Two weeks.
- [42:59]
Jase Robertson
I was like, oh, that's good. This is good.
- [43:03]
Phil Robertson
So I think because, because that curtain, what did it have sewn into? Had that, that curtain, the veil that was torn. It had, it had the shear bones sewn in. That was.
- [43:14]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, that's what he put.
- [43:16]
Phil Robertson
And think about this. That in behind that curtain in the temple was a place called the Holy of Holies. That's the whole point of the book of Hebrews, by the way. The only way you're getting in there is through the high priest and he has to make the sacrifice for the people's sins once a year, and then first he has to atone for himself. And there's this whole like, like picture that the Hebrew writers painting. It's like, this is not a great system. You know what I mean? Like, is it going to work, man? What if we had a better system with a better priesthood where the priest didn't even have to atone for his own sins. He was perfect and he could then atone for our sins. Oh, by the way, then he also became the atonement versus. Oh, and also he is the temple. And you're seeing the picture played out here.
- [44:00]
Jase Robertson
That.
- [44:00]
Phil Robertson
And I think that you see this in this text too, because when you think about the Sabbath, you know, there's in Mark, Luke, I think in Matthew, they all have another event where Jesus addresses the Sabbath.
- [44:12]
Zach Robertson
Yeah, it's Matthew 12, Mark 2.
- [44:14]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. Think about what he says in, in Mark 2 he says that the problem is, is you guys didn't understand that the was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Like, you missed it. And the other part you missed is that Jesus, Jesus be speaking as Jesus. I'm Lord of the Sabbath.
- [44:33]
Jase Robertson
Oh, you missed.
- [44:34]
Phil Robertson
You missed those two big things, which is the whole thing we talked about in the last podcast. So what does that have to do with anything about the signs? And you brought up Hezekiah. What, like what is all. Don't focus. If you, if you end up just worshiping the signs, then you worship the Sabbath. And you don't understand what the Sabbath was for because you don't understand who's the head of the Sabbath. You don't worship the signs. Worship the sign giver, the one who has authority over the signs. And then you'll be able to see the sign in its context, that these are actually made for our benefit.
- [45:12]
Zach Robertson
And you could say the same, Zach, you could say the same thing. I would argue the same thing about all of the law, especially the Ten Commandments. Each of those were made for Man, I mean, why do we not murder one another? It's for the good of man. Why do we not, you know, covet my neighbor's wife? Because it's the good of man. Why do we, why should we never put ourselves up as gods? Because we're terrible gods, you know, we can't.
- [45:35]
Phil Robertson
Such a good one.
- [45:35]
Zach Robertson
I mean, every point. So if you put your trust in law, it's the same problem by putting your trust in what you were talking about.
- [45:42]
Phil Robertson
That's legalism, right? So if you said, what is the definition of legalism? One definition we could use is, would be to take the things of God, the commandments of God, and twist, turn them into something that God does for him instead of something that God does for us. We gotta earn it somehow through keeping these.
- [46:03]
Zach Robertson
It's what they told me early on with my diet. Don't focus on what you can't eat, focus on what you can eat. It's the best thing they ever told me about it. Nobody's ever told me that about a diet. And I thought, they're right. I'm always thinking about what I can't eat instead of saying, look, I can eat all this. The same idea.
- [46:21]
Jase Robertson
Well, reminds me of when Jesus said, come to me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, I will give you rest. Because that's what the symbol was about. But think about Hebrews 4, when he talks about a Sabbath rest for God's people. And he did the same thing we did, even in the context of John 5, like verse 4 says, for somewhere he has spoken about the Sabbath day in these words. And on the Sabbath day God rested from all his work. And so then when you get to like verse eight, it says, for if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains then a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For anyone who enters, God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from us, from his. Let us therefore make every effort to enter that rest so that no one will fall, you know, by following their example of disobedience. But then it gets into the word of God is living and active. And now you're going back to this living water. Because the Greek word for living in that living water was like running water. And here in this pool, you know, I looked it up and these historians say that they basically had one pool that was going into another pool and it was creating current and bubbles. And so then this, this Greek God, they were like, oh no, it's the angel putting Bubbles in the water, you know, and so it had this mystique about that.
- [47:58]
Zach Robertson
But which, by the way, if you fast forward thousands of years, the reason people back 100 years ago went to Hot Springs, Arkansas, and all these other places where there are hot springs is because there was a medicinal value. It's like, oh, we got living. Water is bubbling. It's warm, you know, and that.
- [48:14]
Jase Robertson
I think that's why Jesus sought out that one guy. 38 years. I mean, you don't. Do you real. I looked it up. Look, 38 years ago, I was a senior in high school. Good. Well, I was dating.
- [48:30]
Phil Robertson
Talk about entropy. I'm telling you, son, right there, that's it.
- [48:33]
Zach Robertson
38 years ago, I became a dad for the first time.
- [48:37]
Jase Robertson
You know, 38 years ago, I found fascinating. I look back and was like, what are the major events in 1987? I mean, we're talking about Ronald Reagan and ending the Cold War. We're going back to that. You know what the number one song that that year was? Madonna walked like an Egyptian.
- [48:57]
Phil Robertson
Egyptian.
- [48:58]
Jase Robertson
And look. So I got to look, and I'm like, Egypt. I mean, there was a spiritual component.
- [49:05]
Zach Robertson
To it, and it was a little dance with the.
- [49:07]
Jase Robertson
Oh, it was a thing. You know, it was four women from England or whatever.
- [49:12]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. Haystack.
- [49:14]
Jase Robertson
The bangles.
- [49:16]
Zach Robertson
The bangles, the bangles.
- [49:17]
Jase Robertson
So look, you know what I found fascinating about that? When I looked, I was like, how did they write that song? Because I'm like, they might have been believers or something.
- [49:25]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [49:26]
Jase Robertson
So the guy who wrote the song was on a ferry ride somewhere over in Europe, and the waves came up, and he. He saw how everybody was because they were trying to keep their balance. And it reminded him of the. The ancient Egyptian portraits on the walls that they had written with their arms out. And he's like, these people are walking like Egyptians because the boat's rocking.
- [49:56]
Zach Robertson
I've been there on a cruise ship. I never put that together.
- [49:59]
Jase Robertson
Put it together.
- [50:00]
Zach Robertson
Crab walked on a cruise ship.
- [50:02]
Phil Robertson
Hold on. Is this. Did you make this up, or is this like a real.
- [50:05]
Jase Robertson
I read it on the Internet, which, by the way, in 1987 was the. The big. It went from a thousand interactions on the Internet to like, 30,000. It was like this thing's actually taken off.
- [50:19]
Phil Robertson
Well, let me just say something to our audience here. I think this is important. If you don't think we study for this podcast. The fact that.
- [50:25]
Jase Robertson
That.
- [50:25]
Phil Robertson
That he went that deep. He didn't just. I mean, he thought 1980. I mean, he went. You went on A like you. You did your work, you did your research.
- [50:33]
Jase Robertson
Well, I was fast. I was a senior in high school. I was looking at the movies. Like the number one movie was Three Men and a Baby.
- [50:40]
Zach Robertson
Oh, wow. Steve Gutenberg.
- [50:42]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. And it was like. I mean, the other movies were like Fatal Attraction, you know, that's when everybody was like, oh, man, Girlfriend. I better get right with my wife.
- [50:52]
Zach Robertson
Girlfriend or mistress.
- [50:53]
Phil Robertson
I don't have a lot of memories from the late 80s. I do have a.
- [50:57]
Zach Robertson
When you say you were just a young lad.
- [51:00]
Phil Robertson
Yeah, I was a little kid. But I do remember something from 1985 to just say, every time I hear 1985, something pops in my head. What do you think it is? The most significant event in my mind.
- [51:11]
Jase Robertson
See, I was, what, A sophomore in high school. It was a. It was a transitional year for me.
- [51:17]
Zach Robertson
I just got married.
- [51:18]
Jase Robertson
I just come to the Lord. So I was just trying to survive.
- [51:22]
Zach Robertson
What was it, Zach?
- [51:23]
Jase Robertson
The Bears.
- [51:25]
Zach Robertson
Oh, the Bears.
- [51:26]
Jase Robertson
Well, let me give you this. Do you know how far away Icky Woods.
- [51:30]
Phil Robertson
Icky. The icky shuffle. 1985. Refrigerator Perry. The quarterback was Jim McMahon. They were like a big. It was a big thing, the 85.
- [51:39]
Jase Robertson
Which is where the conspiracy started that football was all about selling you food, which is now a modern day commercial.
- [51:47]
Zach Robertson
Yeah, Ubereats.
- [51:48]
Jase Robertson
They're like the refrigerator, you know, it's all about people selling stuff.
- [51:52]
Zach Robertson
What are you eating, Jerry? Rice. Ooh, look, Jerry's eating rice.
- [51:56]
Jase Robertson
My favorite commercial right now. Look, my wife doesn't get that commercial. She's like, why do you think that's funny?
- [52:02]
Zach Robertson
It's so good.
- [52:03]
Jase Robertson
I said, it's hilarious. But what I was also going to say, you realize how long ago that was? Do you know who won the Super bowl in 1987?
- [52:12]
Phil Robertson
Who?
- [52:13]
Jase Robertson
The new York Giants.
- [52:15]
Phil Robertson
Oh, gosh.
- [52:16]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [52:18]
Phil Robertson
Who was the.
- [52:18]
Zach Robertson
Who was Phil Sims. Phil Sims.
- [52:20]
Jase Robertson
But I'm just saying, look, I think we read these lines and you don't you take for granted this guy. I mean, we talked about my parents, which has been an incredible decline. Just in a year or so. This guy's been like this for 38 years. Which is why, I mean, you start going back. That's in their day. That's two thirds of your life.
- [52:44]
Zach Robertson
Yeah. If not more. Three quarters, maybe.
- [52:46]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, three quarters. And Jesus asked that question, do you want to get well, look. Which you think, well, everybody, that was a very good question. I mean, only the creator of the universe could come up with it.
- [53:01]
Zach Robertson
That's good.
- [53:02]
Jase Robertson
And he's like, sure. And what I found fascinating because I know we're out of time because people brought this up. The scholars argue about why he said, stop sinning or something worse may happen to you because God does have the confrontation. Jesus has that confrontation about your life. And most of them think that they were going into this argument of whether they thought, oh, you must have lived.
- [53:32]
Zach Robertson
A sinful life, or had done something to deserve his 38 years. That's what I read that too, which we know from John 9. That's not true.
- [53:40]
Jase Robertson
Call me the low hanging fruit guy, but I think, I don't think he was taking his new life from the creator of the universe in flesh the right way. I think it's what he was, how he was responding to it. It was becoming about him.
- [53:53]
Zach Robertson
I love the idea that Jesus doesn't forget to remind us he's not going to leave us like he found us well.
- [53:58]
Jase Robertson
Right. And my last point, I want to say is because I think the fact that he didn't know who the guy was when they said who healed, he's like, I don't know.
- [54:06]
Zach Robertson
I'm gu.
- [54:07]
Jase Robertson
I think that was a problem. You need. If you have an encounter with Jesus, you. You need to remember that your first.
- [54:14]
Zach Robertson
Question is, should have been for me, I was, who are you?
- [54:17]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, you should have said, tell me more about who you are.
- [54:21]
Zach Robertson
All right, we're out of time. Well, man, what a great place to pick up. Next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.