Ep 1068 | Jase Calls Out Zach for the Ultimate Podcast Betrayal & Wrapping Your Head Around the Trinity

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family – Episode 1068 Summary

Title: Jase Calls Out Zach for the Ultimate Podcast Betrayal & Wrapping Your Head Around the Trinity
Release Date: April 3, 2025

In Episode 1068 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family, hosts Jase, Phil, and Zach delve deep into personal anecdotes, theological discussions, and family dynamics, all while maintaining their trademark blend of humor and heartfelt faith.

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1. Opening Banter and Sports Updates

The episode kicks off with light-hearted conversation surrounding Zach’s recent trip to the Final Four.
[00:01] Jase Robertson: "I am unashamed. What about you?"
[00:06] Phil Robertson: Congratulates Zach on Florida’s achievement, teasing him about his basketball enthusiasm.
[00:23] Zach Dasher: Shares his excitement about attending the Final Four, mentioning his plans to visit Monroe and participate in a worship event with Layla and Jill.

Jase humorously admits he hasn’t watched basketball in years, leading to playful ribbing about his sports knowledge.
[00:58] Phil Robertson: "What rock have you been under? This has been exciting."

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2. Personal Sports Experiences and Lessons Learned

Jase recounts his recent foray back into sports, specifically LSU baseball and golf.
[02:25] Jase Robertson: Describes staying up late to watch LSU baseball despite the challenges of his age.
[04:16] Jase Robertson: Shares his unexpected experience playing golf with seasoned players, culminating in a score of 78 and reflecting on the importance of expectations in sports and life.

Zach introduces the concept of "premeditated resentments," relating it to James 4:1.
[05:07] Zach Dasher: "Premeditated Resentments are premeditated resentments. So you have an expectation... then I'm premeditated as I'm going to have resentment toward you."

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3. Faith Encounters and Baptism Stories

Jase narrates a profound encounter during a baptism session organized through Celebrate Recovery.
[07:10] Jase Robertson: Details meeting a man named Rucker, leading to the baptism of an Iowa family unit. He emphasizes the divine orchestration of these meetings, highlighting the impact of faith-driven actions.

Phil reflects on historical and contemporary instances of recognizing Jesus’ divinity.
[15:37] Phil Robertson: "That's why we call them sterile studies... the weirder thing about that timeframe versus now..."

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4. Exploring the Trinity and the Nature of Jesus

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to unraveling the complexities of the Trinity and Jesus' dual nature as both divine and human.
[21:19] Zach Dasher: "John 17:3... Jesus Christ his Son, whom he sent."
[28:44] Phil Robertson: Discusses Jesus’ relationship with God, referencing John 11 and the incarnation.

Jase humorously attempts to lighten the mood with a joke about women’s favorite Bible verse, which leads into a deeper theological exploration.
[38:24] Phil Robertson: Laughs along with the joke, setting the stage for a meaningful discussion.

Key Insights:

• Jesus as Both Man and God:
  [43:14] Zach Dasher: "Jesus is the incarnation of the Son who takes on flesh..."
  [44:36] Jase Robertson: "He became a man... he surrendered in baptism..."

• Understanding Scripture in Context:
  Both hosts stress the importance of interpreting biblical passages within their historical and cultural contexts, especially when discussing complex doctrines like the Trinity.

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5. Humorous Interlude and Group Dynamics

Jase’s attempt at humor doesn’t land as intended, showcasing the natural dynamics and playful tensions within the family.
[40:05] Zach Dasher: "He asked for direction."
[40:06] Jase Robertson: "You know, he's a man because he asked for direction."

The moment serves as a segue into deeper theological discussions, emphasizing the balance between faith and everyday interactions.

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6. Personal Testimonies and Health Journeys

Phil shares his successful journey with PhD Weight Loss, highlighting the program's effectiveness without gimmicks.
[34:31] Phil Robertson: Enthusiastically endorses the program, sharing a personal testimony of losing over 40 pounds through natural methods and structured guidance from Dr. Ashley Lucas.

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7. Concluding Theological Reflections

As the episode winds down, Jase and Zach continue their exploration of John Chapter 5, discussing the "now and later" aspects of Jesus' teachings and the nature of divine authority.
[56:55] Zach Dasher: "When we're thinking about who God is and his essence..."
[57:09] Jase Robertson: "Well, the answer is yes."

Phil wraps up with insights from theologian NT Wright, emphasizing the continuity of God's actions from the present into the future.
[57:09] Phil Robertson: "NT Wright said, what God does in the present, he will complete in the future..."

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Notable Quotes

• Jase on Expectations:
  [05:07] Jase Robertson: "Expectations. I've said it before. Premeditated resentments."

• Zach on Humility:
  [33:02] Zach Dasher: "You have to hold an attention that you really can't fully get your mind around."

• Phil on Weight Loss Testimony:
  [34:31] Phil Robertson: "It's very natural and it's worked very well for me. I'm not hungry, which I love."

• Jase on Biblical Interpretation:
  [32:39] Jase Robertson: "We tend to do two extremes in our religious world, we either think everything's happening right now or everything's happening later."

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Conclusion

Episode 1068 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family masterfully intertwines personal stories, humor, and profound theological discussions. The Robertson family, alongside Zach Dasher, encourages listeners to explore their faith deeply, understand the complexities of the Trinity, and reflect on how divine interactions shape everyday life. Whether discussing late-night baseball games, the nuances of biblical passages, or personal health journeys, the episode remains a testament to living an unashamed Christian life.

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Listen to Episode 1068 to experience the full depth of the Robertson family's discussions on faith, family, and the divine mysteries that bind them.

Transcript

[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil Robertson]

Welcome back to Unashamed. I guess Zach, we finally got to give. Give you your due. Florida's in the Final Four, so congratulations. We've been ragging you about basketball and all that, but they, they, they've made it to the Final Four. You deserve congratulations.

[Zach Dasher]

They made it and I'll be attending. Just bought me tickets flying to San Antonio before I fly into Monroe. I'll be in Monroe next week.

[Jase Robertson]

Really?

[Phil Robertson]

So you're going to be coming from the Final Four into. Into the studio?

[Zach Dasher]

Yep. Layla is an Ella worship. They're having an event at the Hub, so we're going to come in for that. Jill, I think is going to join us on the podcast, so we'll see what happens there. So. Well, yeah, I'll be in town.

[Jase Robertson]

All of this is news to me. I have heard none of this. I didn't even know they were still playing basketball.

[Phil Robertson]

What rock have you been under? This has been an exciting.

[Jase Robertson]

I quit watch watching basketball seven, eight years ago and never returned.

[Zach Dasher]

As an LSU fan, I think that was a good move on your part.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that may be what happened.

[Zach Dasher]

Baseball. Stick with baseball. You'll be good. You'll have.

[Jase Robertson]

I felt like a little kid this weekend because I don't know when this will be released, but I spent the weekend watching deep into the night LSU baseball because of various rain delays. But it was, it was harder at my age now than it once was.

[Zach Dasher]

To stay up late.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I mean I think the Sunday the they played Thursday, Friday, Saturday, the Saturday game concluded it like 2 in the morning. 2:30 maybe.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, it was, it was after 2:00am oh, and I.

[Jase Robertson]

Is that a question? Yes, I stayed up.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, that's. Hey, I'm not doing that.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, I, you know, I mean, but it was painful to watch. But we won. I mean we swept the series. But it just, it was painful because the first two games, which, the one before, the night before, I mean I pop popcorn. Popping popcorn at midnight, watching it. And the first one, I think it went off at 1 on Friday night.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

So back to back, I mean, it's LSU baseball at midnight. I was giving Missy updates, but she didn't care until she went to bed. And so yeah, it was just me, myself and I and LSU baseball at 2 o'clock in the morning. I mean, that's fine.

[Phil Robertson]

I'm kind of conditioned. I'm kind of conditioned because I watch Dodger games and they don't start till 9, 9 o'clock at night. So I'm usually A late night.

[Zach Dasher]

But you're not popping any popcorn, Al.

[Phil Robertson]

No popcorn.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, I do the whole. Yeah, I do the whole it now, but you pay for it the next day. You know, you pay for it, so. And I figured out I wore my spring colors today. However, I thought my hat matched my shirt because I got dressed in the dark. And then I got here and.

[Phil Robertson]

Not quite.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, it's got.

[Zach Dasher]

You got an Easter vibe going. I mean, it's kind of like pastels.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. You got the tent going.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, you got it going.

[Jase Robertson]

So I figured out. Since you are talking about sports, I figured out the problem with golf because I had not touched a club in eight months. I hadn't touched one. So I went and played Friday, and I wasn't planning on playing. I was going to hit some balls, and this guy's like, hey, you want to play with us? This guy's won the club championship, like, eight times. I was like, sure. And so I go out there and I think, you know, when you play with people that are better, you're going to play a little better. But I haven't swung a club in months. And Al, I. Even though they all beat me because they shot around par, I broke 80, I had three birdies. I shot 78. And I thought, you know what? Practice is overrated. This game is overrated.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

I took months off and come out here and act like I belong. So I figured out the problem. So then I go back to back all nighters, watching LSU baseball. Then we. Yesterday, we went to wfr, and I had quite the story that happened there. And so I had decided to play after church. Well, we got tied up at the building, and so I come in there on two wheels, and I think I shot 95.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. As fizzes say, what about that next round? That's the problem.

[Jase Robertson]

I was. It was shot. It was like I'd never played before. So I. I've concluded that golf is not about swinging, all that. It's. It's about expectations. I'm serious.

[Zach Dasher]

Expectation. I've said it before. Premeditated resentments.

[Phil Robertson]

That's right. And Zach, you're. You've been quoted a lot. I know people are saying that now. They love that quote. Did you come up with that, or do you read this?

[Zach Dasher]

I'd love to say that I did, but I didn't.

[Jase Robertson]

What does that mean again? Preemptive resentments. What did you say?

[Zach Dasher]

Premeditated Expectations are premeditated resentments. So you have an expectation. What you're saying is, I'm like, if this does not is. This is not met, then I'm premeditated. That I'm going to have resentment toward you.

[Jase Robertson]

I think that's James 4. 1.

[Zach Dasher]

It might be. It might be.

[Jase Robertson]

What causes fights among you in quarrels? Zach, we need some therapy on this.

[Zach Dasher]

That's pretty good. If you take that and turn it in. Let's see the scriptures here.

[Jase Robertson]

All right. What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires, that battle within you? Here we go. You want something but don't get it.

[Zach Dasher]

That's pretty good.

[Jase Robertson]

That was off the top of my head. But I do have the Holy Spirit.

[Phil Robertson]

Playing the role of Phil. Today will be Jace with a finding a scripture reference to conversation.

[Zach Dasher]

It is good. I read one of the comments, and somebody said after y'all were talking for 15 minutes, I just kept longing for Phil to say, hey, let's turn to John, chapter four. So Jay, she preemptively struck there. The person that I heard say that initially was Mac Owen. And who's been on the podcast.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

Who is. Works for Celebrate Recovery. And I think he heard it from a therapist. A marriage and family therapy. I think that's the. How it came down to the. To the common folk. But it's a pretty good line.

[Phil Robertson]

I've had several listeners of the podcast that I talk to fairly regularly that have quoted it since you said it. So it definitely resonated and it is good. And now you can have a scripture link thanks to James, James4.

[Jase Robertson]

So keep your expectations low. Well, I'll try to simplify what Zach says.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Because I'm not going to get up on the number one tee box and say, boys, I'm working on my premeditated resentments.

[Zach Dasher]

But when you shoot 95, you're like, it's. You probably walked out of there. You felt bad.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, you missed the pause, because if I said that on the tee box, it would be.

[Zach Dasher]

It'd be big cricket.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, and that's the problem. His expectations were high because he was coming off of 78. Because that's the thing about golf. You expect to do better next time. But.

[Jase Robertson]

So then they said, when are you going to play next week? I said, nah, don't call me. I'll call you.

[Zach Dasher]

Call me later.

[Jase Robertson]

I realize what am I doing here? So. But you brought up Celebrate Recovery. So to go back to what happened yesterday. So I met a guy. Long story. It's a long story, but a guy that I had met playing cards one night. He said, look, I got a guy works for me. Wants you to baptize him. I was like, yeah, okay. And I was like, well, you know, what's the story? And he said, well, I don't know, but he's in the Celebrate Recovery Program up at Yalls Church. I was like, oh. I said, well, just tell Rucker and he'll line it up. So I forgot all about it. So then yesterday morning, I get there and I hook up with Rucker, and it's like, well, I think he had forgot about it, too, you know? So I go over to the. Do they still. What did they call the class, Al, before the church?

[Phil Robertson]

You talking about just Bible class?

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, the unashamed Bible class.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Unashamed Bible study. Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And old Jersey Joe was doing that yesterday. Well, I walked in there and. And I'm looking around, but they had just ended because they. They do that an hour before, you know, the worship starts at church.

[Phil Robertson]

The regular meat, right?

[Jase Robertson]

So, look, now, y'all gonna think I'm making this up, but I. I don't. I'm not making up actual events here. So one guy comes, and he's kind of getting in my personal space. So I said, what's going on? He's like, not much. I said, well, I'm looking for a guy. And he said, who you looking for? I said, I'm looking for Rucker. And he said, well, I know Rucker. And I was like, well, he's supposed to have a guy lined up to be baptized. So I figured they, you know, he might have sent him here. He said, well, I'm that guy. I'm. I thought, there's a lot of people in there, you know, what are the odds that I just walked in here looking for Rucker to find the guy? And here's the guy. I said, well, are you ready? And he said, well, I think so. I said, well, then we need to go talk. So we found a little stairwell. You know where I've been going, Al? Right where you are? Out from the right. That's been my place of Bible study because I don't have an office there. I go to the stairwell. So everybody loves trees. How can you not? And we have a company that has figured out the biggest problem when it comes to trees. They grow slow. And so I've never actually wanted to hug a tree, but if you could figure out a way to get it to grow faster, I might consider it.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Phil Robertson]

We call the, you know, we call them j. Stairwell studies.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, that's what it was. It was a. Yeah, it was a stairwell study. And I'm going through, you know, talking about who Jesus is. I think that was my first question. I said, who is Jesus to you? And he's like, well, he, he gave kind of a vague answer, you know, And I asked him a few more questions after that. I said, what do you, what do you. I mean, what's your. Are you familiar with these terms? Have you had a church experience? And he's like, well, I mean, I've been in Celebrate, recover. I have a. I have an awareness of God. And he said, I love this church. It's transparent. And he said, but I really don't know what the Bible's all about. I was like, what do you think it's about? And it was basically kind of the same thing that you would hear. He didn't say, it's a rule book. But it was kind of like, well, it's just a guide to living. And that's what he said about Jesus. He's an example that we should follow, you know. So I launched off from there. You know, Jesus is a person, but when we. And this Bible is about a person. And so when I said the line or read the verse John 1:14, you know, God came a man. He's like, God became a man. Like, yeah, that's who Jesus is. God in human form.

[Phil Robertson]

The word became flesh.

[Jase Robertson]

Like a light bulb went off, he started glowing. You know, it was really exciting when you see. Oh man, this is. That's awesome. I was like, oh, it's awesome. Yeah, you want to know how to live? I mean, or what God is like. And so about that time, you know how you feel the presence of someone, Someone kind of staring. And so I looked around, well, it's Blake Gaston. And Blake said, huh, this looks real familiar. So he told this guy James, who I was calling Logan at this time. I don't know where I got that.

[Phil Robertson]

From, but you are your father's son.

[Jase Robertson]

So he said 35 years ago, he said, I was on a different stairwell in this building. And he pointed, he's like. We were three stories up. And he said, I was the first person that Jace, this fellow talking to you shared Jesus with because we were best friends in school. And I'm telling you, it was a moment we all just kind of stopped. And I said, and Here he is 34 years later, randomly bumping into us. And so that was as good of an end time Bible study encounter I think God arranged that you could possibly get. I mean, the tone of the sermon went up dramatically after that. But so which, you know, eventually led to him and a family from Iowa, the mom, the dad and the two sons also being baptized at the. What are we going to call that? The altar call. Yeah. So old Jersey baptized them and I baptized James. But I thought, man, what an awesome little encounter there.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that's why we call them sterile studies. But it's interesting, Jace, because that's exactly. I mean, you have swerved exactly into the text we're going to be talking about today from John 5 of exactly how people miss it, which was happening, I think, in the first century because they miss Jesus. But with the weird. The weirder thing about that timeframe versus now is that he was literally standing there. I mean, I mean, they, you know, we miss him 2000 years later because of a lot of different reasons, but they were missing him as he was actually Standing in front of him. And in some ways, it was even harder for them to, you know, for them to really believe and catch it.

[Jase Robertson]

You know what's great, you know, it's crazy, too, about this. This guy's boss that. The guy I met playing card game, you know, he. This is just worldly encounter. I mean, this guy just works. They do pools and stuff. You know, put in pools and stuff like that. He comes as a. You know, because it's. This is one of his employees, and he wanted to, you know, celebrate that with him, which I thought was amazing. And the sermon was about Ephesians 6 and Bromley Tault, who was another fellow that I randomly met 35 years ago, I guess, and shared Jesus with and was just a piece in him coming to the Lord. I mean, there were other people that shared. But out at Camp Chioka, and they were talking about the family unit in Ephesians 6 with the children.

[Phil Robertson]

Obey your parents.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And then he got into the slaves and masters, which I thought he did a really good job of it being more about in their culture, which we've talked about before, kind of the employee employer. And I thought, man, this is a weird. It seems like a lot of things are working together without a plan.

[Zach Dasher]

Unless somebody had a plan without a human plan. Or a human.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, we were discussing. Yeah, we were discussing this in the baptismal room, the ready room. Like, all of us were in there discussing this and. Which was kind of crazy. Which. And the family from Iowa had an interesting thing. They were listening to this podcast the day. Which. Then he said, we just had to come to Jesus meeting. Which I love that phrase. And he said, you and Zach were arguing about baptism. He's like. But there was a line, and I'll give you credit, when you said, instead of arguing about whether we should do this or not, or do you have to do this. It was like, it's all about Jesus, and he's given us the opportunity. And I had said a line. I guess it sounds like something that I would say. But he said, you said that when people realize who Jesus is, oh, they'll run to the water. And he said. So we ran all the way from Iowa to be here. He said, make sure and tell Zach that. So I thought, ooh, okay, I'll tell him. So there you go, Zack.

[Zach Dasher]

I love that.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

I thought it was a disagreement with that.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I thought it was awesome, you know?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, it's funny, Jace, you mentioned that, because when. When Lisa and I were heading out of town, we went by to see dad and mom and to visit before we headed out and had a really good visit with dad and the lady. That's. So there's a lot of people there that work in this, you know, where he's at. And the. The lady, that's the best one to get him to do the most things, according to everybody that works there. We were talking with her. She came in visit a little bit, which I love, you know, talking to the people that are helping out your family. And she said, well, you know, I go to Whitespay Road. And I said, really? And she said, yeah. And so I started asking her questions, which. But she doesn't go to, like, our assemblies, but she goes to celebrate recovery. And she just started telling me about her life and what she wanted to do. And, you know, she. She has a heart for homeless people. And, you know, she's got these ideas. And so I connected her with Rucker, but that happened the same week. But I thought the same thing. I mean, here's somebody that's helping take care of our dad, that has that same passion for wanting to help people. And I told her, I said, well, this man right here that you're helping us take care of, you know, he's led many, many people to Christ. And so, you know, God has you in our lives for a reason now, too. It's not just, you know, us in your life, you know, and it's just as Zach said, if it's not a plan of human origin, it just shows you that greater divine quality of how he's looking out and making things happen on his timetable that just like you said, I mean, you just run into two or three instances. But the one thing just you were willing to engage, and then God had the opportunities waiting on you. But if you're never willing to engage, you never step into any opportunity.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, well, it reminded me of where we're at, too. And I mean, John 5 through the years, because I tell everybody my advice on coming to know Christ and then growing as a disciple is to read the book of John every day. And I'm not saying I've read it every day since I've come to Christ, but I would say most days I've read something in the book of John and John 5. I've always just had trouble with wrapping my head around. I'm not saying, oh, I got it figured out. Even now. I think it's a difficult chapter.

[Zach Dasher]

It's been difficult about it for you.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I think, you know, when you think about understanding the how God chose to reveal the Bible.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

In a specific time to a specific group of people. I think this really matters in what John 5 is saying, but it. It in our 2000 years later in our modern religious world, I think it's just easy to go to random verses and just pluck them out and then apply it to like something today. And I think when you really look at what is said here, it's just. It's a little harder to wrap your head around. We have a sponsor named Pure Talk. And I have the privilege of introducing a member of our party here who embodies that phrase. Zach.

[Zach Dasher]

Wow, that's quite the compliment. Jace. Was that backhanded?

[Jase Robertson]

No. You're Pure Talk, buddy. Go for it.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Jase Robertson]

And I mean, we can read the text and I'll show you the points that caused me to go like you.

[Zach Dasher]

Heard it a different way your entire life and then you kind of go back and read it in a broader context. Is that what you're saying?

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's like I'll give you, let me give you, for instance, because we're going to read the whole thing today, right, Al?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, and we, we kind of read the, the last time we were here and I can't remember if we had guests in between, but we had read the story in John 5:1 through 18 where Jesus heals this lame man at this pool, at this Beth pool. And of course the, the miracle was great. It's the third sign we see here in John. But what got all the attention seemed to be that he did it on the Sabbath, which opens up the rest of the discussion, which we'll pick up in verse 19. So that's just kind of a reset.

[Jase Robertson]

And well, I'll just wait, I'll give them to you as they come up, Zach. How about that?

[Zach Dasher]

Okay.

[Phil Robertson]

And let me read one thing I didn't get a chance to, to read when we were setting up to this text before I read this new part. And, and that is, you know, because the NT Wright makes a big deal that Jesus is now that the signs are coming. And by the way, we're only read about three so far that John focuses on. But there are many others. You know, there was time when he's at the templates, he did wonders and miracles. So it's not like he only did three things. I mean, he's done a lot.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I did the same thing. I tried to make this into because it does seem like it's a, it's Jesus fulfilling like the new creation. And so people have made this like, well, there's the seven signs of John and some of them conclude those seven with Lazarus coming back from the dead. But then there's other groups that leave out him walking on the water, since that was kind of an intimate thing between him and his disciples. And then they had the cross as the seventh sign. But I'm kind of with you. The last verse says he did all kinds of things. If you had written them all down, there wouldn't be enough books to hold them. So I do think it is a creation because he's going back. That's what John started with in the beginning was the Word where it was with God. And you have to acknowledge that. What is that? John 20? Is it 22 when he breathes on them, he breathes the Holy Spirit. Did you know that's the only place that that Greek verb is used in the New Testament? And it's only when you look at the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament. Yeah, I think I'm right on that. It's only used six times, but it's used every time where something like when God breathed into Adam life. Remember that verse, Genesis 2?

[Phil Robertson]

Yep.

[Jase Robertson]

So that's why N.T. wright and others, they're saying this is a sign of the new creation being born.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Jase Robertson]

Which I agree with that.

[Phil Robertson]

Yes. And his point is he's really emphasizing that the Word has become flesh. And then he quoted Jesus statement to Thomas at the end of John. And I never linked those two together, but I thought it was pretty good. You remember when he told Thomas was, you know, he saw the scars and he put his hand on him. And then Jesus said, because you have seen me, you have believed. Meaning not just saw him resurrected, but seen everything he's done. But blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. And I think that becomes kind of the whole central point of what John is talking about. It's just not the miracle man, the miracle worker, the one who does the signs, it's that God is in flesh. And anybody that believes that in that day, and since he says now that now there's some faith, which I think would include us, obviously, 2,000 years later.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I've kind of thought about it while you were talking. I think the problem I've had with John 5, Zach, to answer your question, which you're going to like this, because I think this idea of the not yet.

[Phil Robertson]

Now.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, not yet now can even remember. This should be your chapter, Zach. This should be the theme for the podcast of your podcast, which, by the way, I got a bone to pick with you about something about that, about the podcast. We can do it publicly, I guess, if you want to. I bumped it to a guy and he's like, you need to get on to Zach. He stole one of your ideas. And I said, well, look, the Bible. I thought he was talking about whatever. I don't know what I thought he was all about, but I was like, look, the. The. God wrote the book for everyone. He's given us all, the Holy Spirit, we share this. He's like, no, no, he stole one of your. Your ideas about the podcast. And I was like, what was it? He said, you specifically asked for that you wanted to get John Tyson on the podcast. And I was like, well, yeah. And he's like, zach had him on his podcast. I said, nope. I said, that didn't happen. He said, oh, yeah, it did. I listened to it. I said, well, he would have told me if that happened.

[Zach Dasher]

I did have. He was coming on this one too.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, yeah. So I looked it up when I got home and I thought that low down Rascal, he stole my idea.

[Zach Dasher]

He's coming on the pike. The problem was you guys weren't. We weren't recording the day he could do it. It was like at 4:30 in the afternoon. And so I said, well, we'll get a time when you can record during our recording.

[Jase Robertson]

Excuses.

[Phil Robertson]

It was a scheduling issue.

[Jase Robertson]

I don't want excuses. I want to know why didn't you tell me that? Which shows of a guilty conscience in some sport. I'm like, I was so shocked because I threw that guy under the bus. I was like, no, that didn't happen. He would have told me that. Nope, not a word. Could not believe it. So I started to listen to it, but I was so angry I couldn't even listen to it.

[Zach Dasher]

But here is the difference. I want John to come in in person. I think we will have a much better discussion with him in the studio in Louisiana.

[Jase Robertson]

We some crawfish.

[Zach Dasher]

Would you do a fish out or water moment with a. With a pastor from New York? We need to take.

[Jase Robertson]

That's what I'm saying. He reminds me in a weird way of my wife because, like, when I met her, we didn't have anything in common. I mean, that I could think because.

[Phil Robertson]

He'S an Aussie, right?

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And he kind of throws like, rural America. He lives in New York City.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

But I love the challenge. I mean, to me, that's what we do have in common. He has a heart to share. Jesus. Jesus. I mean, I actually. I've told y'all this before. I actually did a street preaching. I went on a street preaching venture in New York City. I did it. Which I should have brought my cricket button because that's what it felt like from my perspective. But I mean, I did that when I was like a teenager, 18 or 19 years old. But anyway, what my point was, I think this chapter really picks up on that. And what I'm saying about why it was hard to wrap my head around it is I think we tend to do two extremes in Our religious world, we either think everything's happening right now or everything's happening later. It just seems that way on how people view the Bible.

[Zach Dasher]

I think that's a really good point, actually.

[Jase Robertson]

And you're going to see that in this chapter is what I'm saying, because there is.

[Phil Robertson]

There is a. There's most definitely in this text, there is a what's happening in that moment, but it's also a picture of what's going to happen.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, there's a tension that we have to hold. I heard. I don't know who said this. I heard some young preacher on Instagram.

[Jase Robertson]

Him.

[Zach Dasher]

I was watching clip and he said the title of the clickbait was is Clarity. An idol is having clarity is like clarity. Can you make that an idol? And the guy's point was we want clarity so bad. But maybe God has you in a posture where he's not telling you everything for a reason, and it puts you in a posture of humility where you're dependent on him. And I think that what you're talking about, Jay, so I've experienced that too. It's like, it's. It's. I want to go all in with one side so that I don't have to worry about it. Like, yeah, is it here? Is it later? Like, and I just want to pick a side and go all in. And it just this. I don't think that God gives us that as an option. I think it is something you got to hold an attention that you really can't fully get your mind around. And I'm learning to be okay with that because I'm learning to realize that I'm not actually sovereign, you know, the universe that he is. And so I can. I can lean on him and not on my own understanding.

[Phil Robertson]

Don't you lean on him the most when you really don't have an answer for something? I mean, that's when you need him the most. You know when you think you've got all the answers is when you say, well, you know, I got this God. Well, spring has sprung. And one of the things that I'm doing this spring is working on myself. Jace, you reminded me that I needed to probably lose a pound or two. You did it in the loving Jase way.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And so I have. But I tried to do it by myself, and it was an epic failure. I needed a partner, and I found the Perfect partner. It's Ph.D. weight loss. Dr. Ashley Lucas is the founder of Ph.D. weight loss, and she is a. Has a Ph.D. in sports nutrition and chronic disease. And so she's been helping people for a very long time. And one of the things I love about Dr. Ashley, she does a great job explaining the science behind weight and weight loss and exactly what we need to do. The program teaches you what to eat, it teaches you when to eat, it works on your relationship with food and it shows us how to lose this weight for life. If you're watching this on YouTube, this was me at the start of the journey with PhD weight loss. And so this has been 12 weeks now, three months in, and I have lost now over 40 pounds, which is a great blessing to me. The best thing is it wasn't done with gimmicks or pills or injections or side effects. It's very natural and it's worked very well for me. I'm not hungry, which I love. One of the things I love about PhD weight loss is they provide up to 80% of your weekly food at no extra cost, which I enjoy as well. So it's working for me. Lisa's coming on board. She's see it right here. She's got an up close personal view. So she wants to join in as well. Join us on this weight loss journey. Schedule your one on one consultation today by calling 864-64-1900 or you can visit myphdweightloss.com that's 864-644-1800. Tell them, sent you. It's time to lose some weight.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I want to hear though what you're.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay, well, I'll give you one. And that way then we can go back and read the whole thing. Because there's others too. Because Jesus starts describing his relationship with God, which gets complicated. I mean, you're like, wait, what? There's a lot of wait, what moments in this trying to wrap your head around because we're just one person. I mean, we have a body, soul and spirit. But Jesus starts describing himself. And I think what gets tricky is before I read the passage I want to read is I think there's been a debate for ever since the Bible came out on whether he's man. Are you going to focus on him being a human or whether he's God? And that debate continues today. Just, just go read any message board with that subject is. And I think the most funny moment, I mean just to kind of back up and give you the context of that. Cause that's also addressed before I read this and I've dubbed this, y'all probably heard this, but it's a joke. I don't know who came up with it, but it's funny. What is the most favorite verse in the Bible for women. This was the joke. Yeah. What is the favorite verse of women? In a humorous way? When it comes to Jesus being a.

[Zach Dasher]

Man, I already think that whatever you're going to say next, you've already crossed over into very dangerous territory.

[Phil Robertson]

I know.

[Jase Robertson]

That's why this is really funny. I wouldn't have. What would the comedian say? You have to have an element of uncomfortability and danger to be funny. That's why this is funny.

[Phil Robertson]

That's what John said.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. So Jace has come up with women's favorite verse in the Bible in a humorous way about Jesus being a man. Are you ready?

[Phil Robertson]

I'm ready.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay. Let me see if you can figure it out. It's like a riddle. It's in John 11. John 11. Think about what happens in John 11.

[Phil Robertson]

That's when Lazarus was raised from the dead.

[Jase Robertson]

Yep. You got it. So when did Jesus know that Lazarus had died? Once he saw him. Or before? Before, yeah. He knew he was dead.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

But that's why he said his. This is not the favorite verse. I'm just setting this up. He says, you know, he's asleep. He first says it, you know, but he knew he was dead. Which is only something that. That God could know. How did he know? He wasn't there. Right. I mean, you can read the text. You can follow this rabbit trail. He knows he's dead?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. He says it in verse 14. He says, Lazarus is dead because they had said fallen asleep. And he's like, oh no, he's dead.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay, so you know he's dead. So he gets there and now we're coming to the favorite verse. And he says, I need some directions on where you lead him.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, where? It's in verse 33.

[Jase Robertson]

There's the verse John, verse 33 and 34. Will you read it out?

[Phil Robertson]

Yep. When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. Then the next he said, where have you laid him?

[Zach Dasher]

And they said, lord, come and see.

[Jase Robertson]

Where have you led him? So see, you didn't get the joke.

[Zach Dasher]

He asked for direction.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, he's a man because he asked for direction.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, man.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, now I'm just saying, how could you know that he died before everybody else? And I say, well, because he's the Son of God and then need directions on where the tomb is. Well, that's because he's a man.

[Zach Dasher]

I gotta say, though, I think John Chris is right about what's needed to make a joke. A joke, but you also have to have delivery.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I looked up.

[Zach Dasher]

Delivery of that joke, Jason.

[Jase Robertson]

So here's what's funny. The only female a part of our group, Maddie, I looked over there and she gave it the Roman gladiator. Thumbs down. Bad joke.

[Zach Dasher]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't think it landed well. I think.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, here's why. Here's why. I think the reason I delivered it the way I did, because I think more importantly is the spiritual implications of that. I do think in that moment he was showing his divine nature and his human nature.

[Phil Robertson]

I really. Because he wept in verse 35.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, he wept. He asked for directions. Now, the only argument you can come up with is that was a rhetorical question because he does ask sometimes. Rhetorical questions. Rhetorical questions, yeah. But it just seems.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, but he also said when asking. He said no one knows the time except for the Father. Not even. Not. What did he say there?

[Jase Robertson]

No, no, that's right. No, he didn't. He didn't know when. Yeah. That. That I know the verse you're talking about, about when he's coming back. I think you would think he would know when he was coming back.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. But he says only the. Only the Father in heaven.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

Knows that. So I think that.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

It's interesting because you do see a limited of his omniscience in his incarnated state. And also, if you think about the fact that he occupied a human body, I mean, that alone is a. God is omnipresent. Right. He's everywhere at the same time. Jesus is incarnate God. Jesus is in a body that occupies a particular space at times. He's a human. He's a human. That's why he says in John 11, he says. I think he actually says something like. Let me pull it back up. Something about him not being there. Like where? At the place where he was when he died. What did he say? He said, for your sake, I'm glad that I was not there. Well, the question is. Well, I thought God was everywhere. This is the point, though. But in Jesus, he's like, jesus said, I wasn't there. Wow. Because Jesus is. Dwells. God dwells in a body in Jesus. So it is a very, very complex.

[Jase Robertson]

Thing, which is why he needed directions, is what I'm saying. You are not given that much weight. But to me, someone who thinks simplistically, I'm giving that some weight. Why is he asking.

[Zach Dasher]

Which is Interesting.

[Jase Robertson]

Like a random thought. But you're like, well, wouldn't he know where he was buried? Yeah. So I've always said, you know, Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. I don't know if that's an accurate description. That's just the way I've always described it.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, what's funny is, Jason, I said.

[Jase Robertson]

That yesterday because this James asked me the same question. Well, how does that work? I was like, that's what you're going to have to really study on. But he is a man, because I. Theologically, he has to be a man. When you get into the Book of Hebrews, he explains that we don't have a high priest who's unable to sympathize with our weaknesses. But he was tempted in every way. Well, why is he tempted? I mean, what are we doing here? He became a man. Now, I have my own theories on how this all happened, which I've said before. You know, Jesus, he had the Holy Spirit. You know, when he was baptized, the Holy Spirit dwelled, I believe, on him and in him. You know, I realized there was a lot of things going on there. God was declaring him the Son of God, but he never did a miracle.

[Phil Robertson]

Before he had the Spirit, and he was. And we didn't read about it. He goes out in the desert and faces Satan mano a mano after that as well, which was interesting.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, right. And we make a big deal of the Spirit not being given yet, because that's going to be covered in John 7 and then Acts 2. The spirit is poured out. But he also breathed on his disciples there in John 20, giving them the Spirit. But I want you to think about this. Jesus didn't have any sin. So I think him surrendering in baptism and then God speaking him as the Son of God. Well, what's the big deal about the Holy Spirit coming in him and all of a sudden starting these glimpses of supernatural.

[Phil Robertson]

Acts?

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, he didn't have any sin, so he wasn't being baptized for the forgiveness of sins or something like that is my point. Or like John's baptism being a baptism of repentance. So it was just a declaration. I mean, he says this is to fulfill all righteousness which the fruit of His Spirit is what's right about everything. Love, joy, peace, patience. So I just think that's a factor. But his man, him being human, humbled himself, you know, and allowed himself to be baptized. I mean, because you're thinking, why is God being baptized?

[Phil Robertson]

So, Jase, when you and I were young lads in seminary. We were learning about, about the Bible. You were the first person that I'd ever heard talk about, you know, the power of martyrdom and kind of what that meant to you. And you were sharing that in a lesson you did. I'll never forget it. I mean, it just, it impacted me so much because I, I hadn't really thought about the, the power of that, just even the first century and what we read about in the Bible.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, you should stop. When people give their lives for something, you should say, okay, this had to be something serious. Now people have given their lives over a lie, and people have given their lives over truth. And after you read the Bible and discover Jesus, you think, okay, now I see why people gave their lives for it.

[Phil Robertson]

And this witness continues on. The book you're holding there, When Faith Is Forbidden is from our friend Todd Nettleton, who's the voice of the martyrs radio host. And he's traveled into these restricted nations for over 20 years and he's written about these courageous Christians that are still out there for the cause and still putting themselves at peril and in risk. And that's the power of it. So this is a wonderful way to reflect on what he has seen and the interviews he's done of these people, but also just to challenge your own life. It's a great opportunity to be inspired by all these remarkable stories. And here's the beauty of it. It's free. So don't miss out on the opportunity to be inspired by these remarkable stories. Request your free copy of When Faith is Forbidden by calling 844-463-4059 that's 844463, 4059 or you can visit vom.org unashamed that's vom.org unashamed.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, I think it's helpful to understand, at least has been for me. The John 17:3 passage is kind of a climactic, you know, declaration of Jesus about himself and about how we enter into eternal life, which he, you know, describes it as knowing God, the one true God. But then he says, and Jesus Christ his Son, whom he sent. So it's like, what does that mean? I think if you think inside, because it seems like, wait, is Jesus God? Is he not God? Is he. Is he human? Is he God? Like, how does this all work? I think the Bill Smith helped me understand this early on because we got in the discussion in my friend group and back in when I lived there about the Trinity and about how God operates. And so the question we were asking was, was Jesus present in the Old Testament? That was the big discussion we were having. And we were looking at all these verses in the Old Testament where it seemed like that the Son of God was present. And so Bill said this when we went and met with him. It was so hilarious because he was 70 something years old when we asked him this. And it was just like we were wrestling with this thing that he had probably understood many, many years earlier. And he said, no, Jesus was not present in the Old Testament. And we were all like, wait, what? He said the Son was present. He said Jesus is the incarnation of the Son. And you have to understand that the name of Jesus is God incarnate. It's the Son who so you, when you think about God, it's Father, Son, Holy Spirit, that's the Godhead. And then Jesus who comes in the New Testament is the incarnation of the Son who takes on flesh that at the name of Jesus, Philippians chapter 2. At the name of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is Lord. And so I think that's the thing is when we're thinking about who God is and it does matter, it really matters what we think about God. Because if you read the verse here in John 5, 20, actually 19. So Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing doing. And I, I think that if you start to try to think about who is God and His essence. 1st John 4:8 and it says it twice in 1st John 4 it says God is love. He is love. In order for God to be love you have to have two things present. One, you have to have a. A lover and you have to have a beloved love without. Without an object or of the love is not love there has the love has to terminate on. On something forth for this idea that if I, if I love my wife, well, I have to have a wife to love, right? I can't say I love and then there's not a you on the other side of that. So inside the Godhead that's why I would push back against what's called modalism or our oneness doctrine. It's not really Christian. I know that's another will make some people mad. But it's not, it's not a Christian teaching.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I won't make any of my people mad because we have no idea what that is.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, that God is one person, oneness. That God is one. He's the same. The Father shows up in different modes as a son and a spirit.

[Jase Robertson]

Now God is one. He's just.

[Zach Dasher]

He's one in being. He's one in his essence. He's one in his nature. He's one in this. They're, they're, they're not divided, but God is love. And if God is not father, son and spirit, then he's not love. But he is love because there's a lover, there's a lover, there's a beloved, and then there's the love between them. The lover is the Father, the beloved is the Son, and the love between them is the Spirit. And this is the core of the Christian faith, is who is this God? And then out of that love, he creates us and invites us to participate in the inner life, to become, as Peter would say, partakers of the divine nature. You know what I mean?

[Phil Robertson]

Wouldn't you say, Zach, that that's exactly why he created marriage with the first man, the first woman, which is the closest human connection to what you just described, where there's love and there's companionship and there's a spirit and a bond that goes between two people.

[Zach Dasher]

And not just marriage. That's the reason why he gave us the church. Ephesians, chapter five. I'm not talking about marriage. I'm talking about the church. And so it's all the things that we see that God has given us as gift are to reflect. Reflect what I just said. To reflect that nature of who he is. And then we can actually taste it, not. Not in fullness. Because, you know, as Jason said earlier, there is that tension of kind of not yet now, but like in my marriage, to the degree that I am actually becoming one with my wife and that our love is based on fidelity and it's unadulterated and non manipulative, non positioning. To the degree that I do that with Jill and she does that with me, we can actually taste, as a song would say, it's a little bit of a foretaste of glory divine. It's like this is what. This is what God gives you, a picture of what he's like in our.

[Jase Robertson]

Best moments and even in our kids. I mean, you could say the same thing because then that's where he goes into Ephesians 6. Well, since I guess this is just introducing. Well, we only have a couple minutes. And I never read the verse that I was going to read. I'll give you the other point that I was going to read. That's like the not yet now. And it's right after what you read, Zach, because we're going to have to go back on the next podcast and go verse by verse. So watch what 24 of John 5 says. Very, very, very truly, I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. Well, are you getting that? That now or later? Correct.

[Phil Robertson]

But yes, the answer is yes.

[Zach Dasher]

The answer is yes.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, watch how that pattern continues and will not be judged, but has crossed over from death to life. Well, do you mean now or later? Yes, for truly, I tell you, a time is coming and has now come. Was that now or late? Well, he literally said now, later, and now when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. Is that now or later? Well, if I hadn't have done that the way I just did it, you would all say, well, that's later. You see what I mean?

[Zach Dasher]

That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

For as the Father has life in himself, he has granted the Son also to have life himself. Which goes back to this other point we were talking about, about Jesus and God and their relationship. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of man. But then the next verse, we get back into this now and later. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out. Those who have done what is good and rise to live, and those who have done what is evil to rise to be condemned. By myself, I can do nothing. I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just. And I seek not to please myself, but him who sent me. And so there it does seem like he was just talking about later. But I mean, there it is. I mean, I think you have to keep that in mind is what I want.

[Zach Dasher]

I think that's correct. And again, looking at that Son of Man reference, you always got to go back to, to what do we say? Daniel 7, son of man. Go back to Daniel 7, Daniel 7. The picture of Daniel 7 is not an end times. It's not the, I think the word is perusia. It's not the end times. It's what happens when the, when the Son of Man is presented before the Ancient of days and he's given a kingdom, he's given dominion, he's given authority. So that all that language is right here. And this authority language, which at the end of, at the end of the book of Matthew, whenever Jesus gives the great commission, how does he begin it? He doesn't say, all authority in heaven and on earth will be given to me one day. He didn't say that. What does he say? It has been given to me. So he's talking about here. This is like when you hear that Son of Man language, you have to think, this is a whole lot about a kingdom that's here. And it does. The authority extends into the second coming of Christ for sure, but it doesn't begin at the second coming of Christ.

[Jase Robertson]

That's why in First Thessalonians 4, which is the only passage where the idea of a rapture comes up, it uses that same word that. Would you call it Parousia?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, the parousia.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, same word. So it is a now and later.

[Zach Dasher]

But Jesus here's the closest that Jesus will be king in eternity. And Jesus is king now because eternity is now.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I think that's the point.

[Phil Robertson]

The way. Here's the way. I'll close with this. Here's what NT Wright said. What God does in the present, he will complete in the future, which I think you see both sides. So we'll. We'll pick this up next discussion. We're out of time. We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.