Ep 1076 | Jase & Tim Tebow’s Bromance Thrives, Zach’s Last Moments with Jan & Time Travel in the Bible?

Summary

Episode Summary: Ep 1076 | Jase & Tim Tebow’s Bromance Thrives, Zach’s Last Moments with Jan & Time Travel in the Bible?

Podcast Information:

• Title: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
• Host/Author: Tread Lively
• Description: The Robertsons openly share their Christian faith, aiming to spread the Gospel beyond church walls. Phil, Al, Jase, Zach, and special guests engage in Bible studies and share inspiring stories from West Monroe, Louisiana.
• Episode: Ep 1076 | Jase & Tim Tebow’s Bromance Thrives, Zach’s Last Moments with Jan & Time Travel in the Bible?
• Release Date: April 17, 2025

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1. Welcome and Personal Updates (01:01 - 02:05)

The episode kicks off with Jase affirming his unashamed faith, prompting Phil to encourage others to do the same. Jase shares uplifting news about Zach and Jill resolving their marital issues after intense counseling, reinstating them as active participants on the podcast.

• Notable Quotes:
  • Jase: "I am unashamed." [01:01]
  • Phil: "There's a way it could be worse for us." [01:32]

2. Smashburgers Cheese Debate (02:05 - 04:28)

A lighthearted debate ensues over Zach's preference for processed cheese on Smashburgers. Jill expresses her initial skepticism but admits to being won over by the taste. Phil cleverly ties this discussion to a deeper spiritual analogy about knowing Jesus versus merely knowing about Him.

• Notable Quotes:
  • Jill: "Well, I will tell you this. I was anti the processed cheese. No way." [02:40]
  • Phil: "The difference in knowing about Jesus... But when you come to know Jesus..." [03:40]

3. Biblical Insights: The Lord’s Prayer and John 6 (04:28 - 16:23)

The conversation transitions to a theological exploration of the Lord’s Prayer, specifically Matthew 6:11. Phil delves into the original Greek terminology, uncovering unique meanings behind "daily bread." This leads to a discussion on Jesus as the bread of life, emphasizing the present, past, and future aspects of His role.

• Notable Quotes:
  • Phil: "When he prayed, 'Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.'" [13:04]
  • Phil: "The prayer ties into the broader concept of Jesus' identity and mission." [16:23]

4. Faith in Daily Life: Thriving vs. Surviving (16:23 - 29:21)

The hosts discuss the practical application of faith, highlighting the difference between merely surviving and truly thriving in Christ. Phil shares a personal story about grappling with Jesus' teachings, illustrating the transformative power of a deeper faith.

• Notable Quotes:
  • Zach: "The promise is you will have life and have it abundantly." [18:46]
  • Phil: "Jesus is survival. You're not at threat to lose anything inside of Jesus." [18:46]

5. Community and the Holy Spirit’s Role (29:21 - 41:18)

Emphasizing the importance of the Holy Spirit, the hosts share stories of how the podcast has positively impacted listeners. They discuss overcoming personal struggles like jealousy and the continuous journey of faith, underscoring the Holy Spirit’s role in revealing Jesus to individuals.

• Notable Quotes:
  • Zach: "The Holy Spirit just broke through." [28:32]
  • Jase: "When God breaks through... there's always something for us to learn about him." [27:30]

6. Scriptural Teachings and Eternal Life (41:18 - 53:32)

A deep dive into scriptures continues with references to John 6, Hebrews 11, and Old Testament figures like Moses. The discussion centers on eternal life, union with Christ, and the significance of Jesus’ sacrifice as a new creation that symbolizes eternal communion with God.

• Notable Quotes:
  • Phil: "Every blessing you pour out, I turn back to praise." [38:22]
  • Jase: "You are made in the image of God... celebrating your life." [35:40]

7. Closing Reflections and Final Thoughts (53:32 - 57:15)

In the final segment, the hosts reflect on maintaining a vibrant and evolving faith. Jase shares personal anecdotes about the ongoing journey of faith, emphasizing the importance of continuous communion with God and the transformative impact of the Holy Spirit.

• Notable Quotes:
  • Phil: "What is a day in your life without Jesus? Nothing good." [56:36]
  • Zach: "It's a waste." [56:38]

---

Key Takeaways:

• Deepening Faith: The episode emphasizes the importance of continually growing and understanding one’s faith, moving beyond superficial beliefs.
• Personal Transformation: Through personal stories and theological discussions, the hosts illustrate how faith transforms daily life, helping believers thrive spiritually.
• Scriptural Exploration: A thorough examination of specific Bible verses provides listeners with deeper insights into their spiritual significance and practical applications.
• Community Impact: Sharing experiences of how the podcast influences listeners reinforces the mission to spread the Gospel and support the community’s spiritual journey.
• Holy Spirit’s Role: Highlighting the Holy Spirit’s role in revealing Jesus and aiding in personal struggles underscores the active presence of God in believers’ lives.

By weaving together personal anecdotes, theological discussions, and scriptural analysis, "Unashamed with the Robertson Family" delivers a rich and engaging episode that challenges listeners to deepen their faith and apply biblical principles to their everyday lives.

Transcript

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[Jase]

I am unashamed.

[Phil]

What about you?

[Jase]

Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm happy to announce today that after some intense counseling last night, Zach and Jill pulled through. They're good. They're. They're back on the podcast. So, you know, after yesterday, Jace, we. You know, sometimes you have to rip some band aids off to get into where people are. So what was your take on our intense?

[Phil]

I was kind of happy because I thought I got home yesterday and I told Missy. I was like, oh, we had some fireworks on the podcast, and it turned into a marital counseling thing, and I was like, the biggest takeaway I had is, Babe, there's. There's a way it could be worse for us.

[Jase]

See, you're encouraging me, so I thought. And now that we're in daytime taunt, and Zach and Jill are doing so much better after this morning's coffee at my house.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Jase]

That I would give you a chance to be supportive, Jill. And. And I'm going out on a limb here, because. I don't know, but we've had an ongoing debate with Zach and so it's Jason, I. Against Zach. About Zach's Smash Burgers? About the cheese choice. Yeah. So I want to know. Because you're there, you're present, you're a part of this thing. Are you all in on the processed cheese on the Smashburgers?

[Jill]

Well, I will tell you this. I was anti.

[Jase]

Okay.

[Jill]

The processed cheese. No way. Didn't believe that.

[Jase]

Which is where we are.

[Jill]

Right?

[Zach]

She was an unbeliever.

[Jill]

Sounds ridiculous. It really Does. But it is amazing. I mean, it tastes amazing.

[Jase]

So he won you over with the flavor.

[Jill]

But I will say, I've said I. I can't fully buy in until you make them both ways. See, I haven't. I haven't compared it to.

[Jase]

Well, we've got to get our. We've got. You know, we've got an insider. Now, one of our listeners is from the Sargento family that makes the cheese. So she. She heard us having this debate and sent us some cheese that's. That's made like that.

[Phil]

You're leaving out the real, real word. She sent us some real cheese.

[Jase]

Real cheese from Wisconsin.

[Zach]

I'd like to call this from a business perspective. Can we just call it the other cheese until they pay? They gotta pay. You can't get free advertisement.

[Jase]

I mean, hey, she went out there and sent us stuff. So she gets a midget. That's it.

[Phil]

It basically comes down to this argument is the difference in knowing about Jesus. You can know about cheese, and there are products out there that looks like cheese. But when you come to know cheese, real cheese, and you see where I'm headed with this?

[Zach]

Y'all are working for cheese that spoils.

[Phil]

No, that's. That's the biblical type.

[Zach]

My cheese, never. It doesn't.

[Jase]

That's already segue.

[Phil]

This is the same difference in knowing about Jesus and knowing.

[Zach]

I'm not saying that the cheese I use is eternal, but I will tell you, I've never seen.

[Jill]

I mean, he loves cheese so much, he wears that orange hat every day.

[Jase]

He does.

[Phil]

Yellow. Orange.

[Zach]

I think it's time to move on. I'll tell you another thing. I was reminded of a verse.

[Jase]

I was trying to be supportive.

[Zach]

There's a verse in the Bible. You warn a divisive cousin once, then you warn him twice. That's a y. Y. I think y'all might struggle with being divisive. I'm just saying.

[Jase]

I told you I was trying to bring y'all closer. I'm assuming.

[Zach]

No, you were. No, what you were doing was. I. I had flashbacks of you being the puppet master when we were all kids orchestrating cha. For your own sadistic pleasure.

[Jase]

Al, you're right. I do have. There is something there that even in my older years, I still enjoy.

[Zach]

I mean, the conversation even, like last night, just kept. Like, we kept going. Like, Al would be out of it, and Al would drop a nugget. When he would get bored, he would drop a nugget and Jill would just bite every time.

[Jill]

Yeah, Zach told me. He did tell Me this morning. I need to settle down a little bit.

[Jase]

Well, we enjoy having you on, Jill. And it's. For this discussion especially Zach sort of went into the segue.

[Zach]

Well, John Six, that's never been very divisive, so this is a great. Easy.

[Phil]

John Six has been quite the study. I actually didn't study last night because my brain was hurting from doing the podcast with y'all yesterday. But.

[Jase]

And we had a lot of people in our studio yesterday, too, so it was like we were performing in front of a live audience.

[Phil]

We didn't talk about that, but we had seven people and a dog.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Phil]

And look, I just want to say this. About halfway through the last podcast we did, I heard this sound, and I thought, there's one of these guys who are snoring. I heard it, too, during our podcast.

[Jase]

I was wondering if it showed up, if Maddie.

[Zach]

Did that make the. Could people hear? No, you see, the audience couldn't hear. I could hear it through my.

[Phil]

I can hear it. And so I didn't want to look because I thought, are we that boring? I just didn't want to look. But it kept getting louder and louder, and finally I said, I gotta find. I gotta find who's snoring. So when I look, then I realize it was the dog. Yeah, we literally put the dog, which made me realize, you know, this dog doesn't have a demon or anything. It's just perfectly comfortable with being a dog.

[Jase]

So, yeah, there was a couple from Arizona that I met at church, and they were here passing through, and their dog, they named after Sadie, our Sadie, because the dog's name is.

[Phil]

I think it's like one of these.

[Jase]

It's a.

[Zach]

It's a service dog. And so you can't critique it at all if you're a service dog. That's like.

[Phil]

You can't.

[Zach]

They can't say. I mean, that is protected status.

[Jill]

They were the sweetest couple, though.

[Jase]

They were fantastic.

[Jill]

I got to talk with them before they left.

[Zach]

You prayed with them, too?

[Jase]

I did.

[Jill]

I got to pray with them. They were precious, but they listened from the very beginning.

[Zach]

They're og.

[Jill]

They are original, unashamed listeners and just precious people.

[Jase]

He told me when he met you, Jason Church, he said, I met Jace, but I just. I was so starstruck, I couldn't speak. I remember as you have that effect on.

[Phil]

I walked up. I mean, they. I just. They were just standing there.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Phil]

We kind of had a nod. A nod. And it started getting awkward.

[Jase]

He couldn't speak.

[Phil]

I said, I'm Jason. They nodded, and I thought, okay, welcome to Louisiana. And then I said, I need to ask him something to get them to speak. And so I said, where are you from? And one of them said, arizona. That's why I said when I saw him, which was surprising to me because I'd slept since then. I walked in, I said Arizona, because that's the only word they said. It was an awkward encounter, but I didn't.

[Jase]

Well, they're listening, so. Yeah, we're glad you guys are here.

[Phil]

Yeah, it's.

[Zach]

It actually helps to have a little studio audience. I feel like you kind of figured.

[Jase]

Well, they were chocolate.

[Jill]

Much worse. Had we not had the studio audience.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Jase]

Oh, that's right. Because y'all knew you were in front of us.

[Jill]

I had to hide.

[Zach]

You had to behave.

[Jill]

Hold it back a little bit.

[Zach]

And then we have friends from California. So we had California and Arizona.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Phil]

We're trying to bring the nations together.

[Zach]

Yeah, That'll preach air. That'll preach.

[Phil]

I'm considering California its own nation. I'm actually doing an event there. I'll give you details later.

[Jase]

I get a laugh every time, wherever I'm at. When I always say, you know, we parachute in behind enemy lines to blue states, and everybody laughs when I. Even if I'm in a blue state, I say that, and they laugh because it's funny.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jase]

You know, I'm just making a joke. But yeah.

[Phil]

Yeah. Well, Al, you brought to my attention that we had left a cliffhanger.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Phil]

That's still tottering on the cliff. Many podcasts.

[Jase]

Zach said, I take copious notes, so I left a note for last two podcasts. But we just. We. Jill and Zach's marital problems. We got into all that, and so it totally threw me off. And I missed it because you. You took us two podcast. Three podcasts to go to Matthew six, which was the prayer when Jesus was.

[Phil]

Teaching the disciples, and then we ran out of time.

[Jase]

Yeah. And you just introduced the thought, give us this day our daily bread, because.

[Zach]

We'Re talking about bread in John 6.

[Jase]

I'm talking about bread in John 6.

[Phil]

Well, what fascinated me, and I know.

[Jase]

Some of our listeners are like, jase.

[Phil]

You never tied that point on the cliffhanger. Was he makes a statement. Because, look, Al, I told you when you brought this up before we started, that I have. I forgot the cliffhanger moment, which is bad.

[Jase]

When you lead us to a cliffhanger and then you forget what you were going to tell.

[Phil]

This is like watching one of those old soap operas that my grandma used to watch. And then you know what she would call him?

[Jase]

She said, I'm going to watch my stories.

[Phil]

Yeah. And then you forget what the payoff was. It was more a kind of Bible nerd discovery. And what I mean by that is when you start studying this intensely and looking at the original language, sometimes you stumble upon something that you're kind of like. So when he prayed. So this is Matthew 6, he said, this, then is how you should pray. Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. And this. This prayer kind of has a little heaven earth.

[Jase]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Phil]

Thread line, which I brought that up the last podcast, John 3. You can only receive what is from heaven 10 times. In John 6, he's like, you need to receive the gift that's come from heaven. And they're like, what is. And the gift was himself.

[Jase]

That's right.

[Phil]

I'm here on behalf of my father.

[Jase]

It's literally the gift that keeps on giving. To your point about the verb, maybe it's just ahead of every decade, you kind of begin to look at your life and realize there's more behind you than in front of you. And what I realize is, at 60, I need to do something about my weight, but I need some help, because what I was doing on my own was not working. So we found some wonderful folks called PhD. Our good friend Dr. Ashley Lucas is the founder of that. And I think because she has a PhD in sports, nutrition and chronic disease, that gives her a passion and a knowledge for helping people, and she certainly has helped me. The program teaches you not only what to eat, but when to eat it, and it helps you with your relationship with food. If you're watching this on YouTube, this is a picture of yours truly when I started the program. Now I've completed 14 weeks in the program. I've lost 45 pounds. I feel great. One of the benefits that just happened in the last couple of weeks is that I was able to cut my blood pressure medicine in half. So it's not only making me look better, it's also helping me be healthier. And what I love about it is there's no gimmicks, there's no pills, there's no side effects, there's no shots. And so it's really natural. You're not eating rabbit food, and so you're not hungry all the time, which has been a big blessing to me as well. PhD weight loss even provides up to 80% of your food at no extra cost. So it's a really good deal. So join us on this Great weight loss journey. Now is the time for you, schedule one on one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900 or you can visit myphdweightloss.com that's 864-644-1900. Tell them that Al sent you.

[Phil]

And so when you read back to the prayer, Matthew 6, when he says, you kingdom come, your will be done. Well, here's this phrase again. On earth as it is in heaven. And there's a lot of religious people that are viewing this as a future.

[Jase]

Yeah, Waiting. Still waiting.

[Phil]

And so but you start thinking, well, Jesus came to earth. Well, where did he come from? He's making the point. I came from heaven. Remember when he was before Pilate, he was like, you know, my kingdom is not from here. And so you start reading this and you start thinking, I think Jesus came for this earth from heaven. And so he says that. But then he says this phrase, give us today our daily bread. Which doesn't look like a strange statement, but that word daily is the only time it's used in the New Testament, whatever that word is. I'm terrible at pronouncing Greek word, but you can look it up. And, and to do that, I've told you many times. Yeah, just put in Matthew 6:11. Maybe I should do that while we're doing it. So which is a good Bible study.

[Jase]

It's a great tool and anybody can do it. And it just puts the Greek and by the way, the words are all. It doesn't read like English. So it's kind of weird when you're reading.

[Phil]

So I'm going to put Matthew 6:11, Greek lexicon. The number one thing that comes up the top search is the Bible hub that you said. So it says, give us this day our daily bread. So if it breaks down the word in the Greek words to give today for the coming day or for subsistence, which is that our daily, it's basically existing. So I'm going to click on that. It's number 1967, our daily. And it's mentioned one time, but it's also mentioned in Luke's telling of the same prayer. Telling of the same prayer.

[Jase]

Right.

[Phil]

So Luke 11:3 and Matthew 6:11, that's it. So I started, I'm like, what does this word mean?

[Jase]

Anytime you see Jason. Right. Anytime you find that a word appears only once in one context, it's always intriguing because it's hard to compare it because usually you go to your other places and you can kind of figure out what exactly the Writer was meant. But when it's only one, you're like, okay, this means something unique to this situation.

[Phil]

So the word definitions, though, are fascinating. That it's like, what is happening, but also what is coming. And so, you know what.

[Jase]

What. That sounds a lot like two stages of the kingdom. Right.

[Phil]

Cliffhanger was. It makes sense when you hear Jesus say, I am the bread of life, which is. Is a present, past, and future phrase. So that was the cliffhanger I wanted to. It's a lot deeper prayer because you're praying to the. I am.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Who is the sustainer.

[Jase]

It's not just, I hope I get a meal today.

[Phil]

So. So tie in verses like. It immediately makes you think, Revelation 1. He's like, I was. I was. I am, and I am to come.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Phil]

You know those. Those kind of phrases Jesus makes?

[Jill]

I'm the alpha, the omega is. He is inside of time and outside of time.

[Jase]

That's right.

[Jill]

And it's just like.

[Jase]

Well.

[Phil]

But I think that's the trick. That's. That's why it helped me understand John 6, because I thought. Well, he said he gave a preview in that prayer of what? Because. Because their hearts were hard. I think that's in the Matthew version of the.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Phil]

The feeding of the 5,000. It throws that phrase in. It's like that they. They couldn't get it. Why are you. And I was uncomfortable when I first read this as a new Christian, because I'm like, what's he talking about? We got to eat his flesh and drink his blood. I was reading the verse, like, literally, and I thought, why would he be making a statement like that? Then I realized that I'm taking the side of the people he's arguing with that's been saying.

[Jase]

You were saying it the way they were saying.

[Phil]

Which is why I came up with that question being so profound. I'm like, if I'm being offended by something that I'm reading that Jesus is saying, the problem is probably me. So maybe I need to dig a little deeper. So I thought that was helpful, you know, and that's just a. I'm scratching the hem of that cliffhanger. But it was a profound thing if you want something to really sustain you or you want to truly survive. One of my dad's friends used to say that every time we'd say, how you doing? And he had kind of gone this celebrate recovery route. So his radical life outside of Jesus was pretty much with the same velocity, I guess, as coming to Christ. But every time I'd ask Him how he was doing. He'd say, I'm just trying to survive. Which we always laughed. But really, when you start reading this, I mean, Jesus is survival. You're not. You're not at threat to lose anything inside of Jesus. Now I look back on the statement, thinking that's a little low.

[Zach]

Well, you go from surviving to thriving in Christ. The promise is you will have life and have it abundantly. So it's not that we're just trying to survive, although it feels like that at times, because you read Hebrews 11 and you got the heroes of the faith. It's kind of all these stories of how they suffered intense persecution. Some were sawed in two, they were sewn up in the sheepskin. They were fiercely persecuted. And the Hebrew writer says that they didn't receive the promise, they will receive it with us together. So there is this idea, there are times in life where it may not feel like you're thriving. But I think that what is actually happening, though, is, as Jill, I think you said this in the last podcast, that even in those times, God is still present. And so we hang on to the. He is transforming us into some new creation, which I think is the whole main point of John 6 is that he's ushering in the new creation. So he's like, as you mentioned 10 times, heaven is coming to earth, which mirrors the prayer when Jesus says. When he prays. What does he say? Your will be done. Where on earth? Like what? Just like it is in heaven. So what does that mean? Heaven and earth coming together. And so where this all kind of fits into what we've talked about a lot is the place where that happens in the Old Testament, where heaven and earth come together. Where is it? It's the temple.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So the whole thing that's still like this new. This. Like this temple language. Even in John 6, you're seeing this temple language. And I think there's kind of controversy around John 6 sometimes because there's some phrases in here that Jesus says that I think are. I don't think they're very difficult to understand, but they get into big theological debates about it, and I don't think it's necessary, you know, but he was.

[Jase]

You think about it, Zach. God was already showing the early forefathers of Judaism before there was a nation and before there was a temple, by establishing a tabernacle that wherever you go, I'm there. Which was the whole point of the manna. And all the other stuff was like, you're looking at what you're picking up and putting in the basket, but you're not looking at the one who's raining it from heaven. Yeah, it's easy to miss that which is right in front of you. Which is why I'm glad Jason went back to this text, because I've missed it before. I've looked at that, as always, like, well, yeah, you know, God's concerned about our daily sustenance. Mean. And again, doing just what they were doing. Putting it only in the context of what I'm physically eating. But you think about it, that doesn't even work in the context, you know, Jesus meant more because you don't have to eat every day. We know we can go days without eating.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jase]

I mean, you know what I'm saying?

[Phil]

Oh, yeah. We're not.

[Jase]

We're.

[Phil]

We're not thinking big enough. That was my cliffhanging moment that Jesus would later, he kind of throw bread.

[Jase]

Under the bus, which isn't it interesting when he goes out and doesn't eat for 40 days and then Satan shows up and the first thing he says is, well, oh, you look like you're hungry. Why don't you turn these stones into bread? And he says, hey, the bread of life, you know, the words of God is all I need.

[Zach]

What does he say?

[Jase]

Man doesn't live on bread alone.

[Zach]

Which is interesting, that phrase, that Old Testament scripture that he quotes, because he doesn't say that man doesn't live on bread. He said he doesn't live on bread alone. So he doesn't diminish the physical world. That's the point that I think is so interesting about John 6. He's not diminishing creation. He's not saying that the bread doesn't matter. Physical bread doesn't matter.

[Phil]

He created it.

[Jill]

Well, he's. To your point about the temple. He's literally bringing heaven to earth. You talked about the temple, but think about that. When they had the temples and the tent of meeting with Moses, only the high priest could go in there. It was only the holy of holies. Right.

[Jase]

And he had to have a rope tied on it.

[Jill]

That's right. It's like so they. But from what he was initiating here and he's. It's basically this idea of I'm coming and anyone can now come to me. That whole protective mode. We're just the high priest or just the.

[Zach]

Well, that's the big. That's the debate, right? I mean, debate is Jesus saying. Because he says in here that all who the Father gives him will come and he won't lose any of them. And he also says that they can only come if the father draws them to come. And so there's a big debate around that. But I don't think it's complicated really. I think the key to John six is kind of the key to the whole Bible, is that all things originate with God. I got some good news and bad news, guys. The good news is we're past April 15, which is the tax deadline. The bad news is you may have forgotten to file your taxes. Are you guys good to go?

[Jase]

Oh, I'm good to go. But I saw an interesting video that went viral, Zach. It was a family playing Monopoly and a little kid, I guess, had to pay taxes in the Monopoly game. And then he started crying because of him having to pay his taxes. And I thought, man, we've all been there. We've all been crying before because we messed up. And now the IRS is after us.

[Zach]

Well, I want to ask our audience if you have any unfiled tax returns or you can't pay the IRS this year. I want to tell you about our friends at Tax Network usa. The time to resolve your IRS troubles. It's now. It is today. But going up against the IRS all alone, that's a big mistake. Take my advice. Call the experts at Tax Network usa. Here's why. They know the system. They've got an edge. They got a preferred direct line to the irs, and they know which agents will play ball and which ones won't. So they can get to the right agent to get your debt solved. Whether you owe $10,000 or $10,000,000 doesn't really matter. Their genius strategies are designed to quickly settle your tax problems in your favor. Tax Network USA's attorneys and negotiators have already resolved over $1 billion in tax debt. I mean, that's incredible. Tax Network USA can help you, too, but you need to move fast. Talk with one of their strategists. Today. It's free. And you can stop looking over your shoulder and put this thing behind you. Call Tax Network USA at 1-800-958-1000. That's 1-800-958-10000 or visit tnusa.comUnashamed. that's tnusa.comUnashaMed. i mean, Jesus is right. I'm not going to come to him later on in the Gospel John, he says about the coming of the Holy Spirit, that he convicts the world of their sin. And he also convicts us about righteousness and judgment. And what I think he means by that is, I'm not walking around in the forest as an explorer and I'm going to somehow discover God. That's not how this works. God breaks into reality and he reveals himself to us. So we would all agree with that, right? I mean that's not a debatable thing. And God is not. If I come to him in faith and I'm under covenant with him, he's not going to forget. Oh, where does that go? I lost him. I mean, he's going to keep us right now. That doesn't mean that I can't say I'm done with you.

[Phil]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's where you'll get the disagreement. So because some people, they don't think people do that. They don't say I'm done.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Phil]

So which they, they get in. I think they use some of the verses in John 6 to get there, which I mean we're eventually going to have.

[Jase]

Well, here's what I love about the question you mentioned. This started with a question when Jesus asked Philip, where are we going to find enough bread to feed these people? Remember, it said he was testing because he knew what he had in mind. And it wasn't just that he was about to do this miracle and feed them to what you were saying, but he knew he was going to explain to them beyond a meal what he was about. And that's what Jesus always does in the moment of what we learn. When God breaks through, as you described it, there's always something for us to learn about him. And so let's face it, that's the life changing moments for all of us. And I hear it all the time about the pikey. I told you guys, I heard it this last weekend. I heard three people come and say when God used you guys to break through into my heart, mind and spirit, I saw something different. And it wasn't because of us. It was because we introduced him to.

[Zach]

What Jesus was talking about.

[Jill]

Go ahead.

[Zach]

And the Holy Spirit is the one, the agent of the Trinity who's doing that work.

[Jase]

Exactly.

[Zach]

It works with people. But he has to illuminate my heart for me to see anything.

[Jill]

Well, I was going to say the counter is also. Jesus is always showing us more. It starts with this little story, this little idea, but it's always so much bigger. And Satan operates in the mode of get them to focus on the little detail that makes them feel, you know, upset or that makes them, you know, makes them feel shame or makes them feel like maybe their, their authority is going to be questioned. That's how he works. Get us to focus on the thing that is not even the thing, which is what they were doing, asking the questions. And. But we do that, right? When the Holy Spirit reveals something to us that we're like, eh, I don't know if I want to see that about myself. I don't know if I want to see that. Maybe I'm struggling with jealousy because Zach's at the Final Four game. Now we're getting somewhere.

[Zach]

The Holy Spirit just broke through.

[Phil]

That's what I want to see.

[Jill]

I want to see that I can use that because I have struggled with jealousy before in my life, but no woman wants to see that in herself. That's the ick.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Jill]

Like, we'll say things like, well, I mean, I struggle with things that are still good. Nobody wants to see the yuck. And so if Satan can keep us from seeing the big picture that God's trying to reveal to us through the Spirit and focus on some minute, oh, well, you must not love me because you didn't invite me and you, whatever the thing is, then he's. He's won. Because we're missing it. We're missing it.

[Phil]

Oh, I agree.

[Jase]

And somebody that is. I've been reading it may have been Swindell in this study said something really interesting. They said, what is the difference? Because at the end of this text in chapter six, a bunch of people are going to part ways over all this. By the way, a bunch of them, they've been following him around, are going.

[Zach]

To leave too much.

[Jase]

They're done. This was it.

[Zach]

That was too far. Jesus.

[Jase]

Exactly. So he made the point. He said, what's the difference between them and the 12? And because the 12 was having a hard time grasping this too. Right. Because they. That he kind of got in their kitchen too. He said, the difference is they still believed in him.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jase]

But the other ones ultimately didn't. And that was the. That's the difference. So if you put that on us, you say, what's the difference in us? And someone that says, you know what? That's just too far. It's a bridge too far. For me, I still believe in him.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jase]

Even if I'm struggling with something and trying to figure it out, the difference is I still believe it. And whether I'm getting it worked out or not, that's what discipleship is.

[Phil]

I think it comes down to just us having a hard time realizing that God is using people, despite their flaws, to show that he does reveal himself on the earth. I mean, last night I saw there was, you know, tv. Let's face it, most of it is junk. And all of a sudden, old Thiebaud was doing a commercial. So I stopped what I was doing. I actually didn't even have the volume on. The TV was just background. I turned it up, and I only saw it once. But it was basically, he was showing people in pain and kids that had some form of suffering. That was obvious. And he was like, the creator of the universe has. He uses people. And if you realize that you've been sent from God with a purpose, you'll run these people in need. It was just like, join us.

[Jill]

And you're like, let's go.

[Zach]

Let's go.

[Phil]

Yeah, because I thought that. Because people's big question is, well, how come there's so much suffering in the world if there's a God? And, I mean, there's no God. Look at what's happening. And, well, here was a guy who used to play football for Florida using this platform, saying, yeah, that's why we're here. Not only did he sin Jesus, he's not oblivious of suffering. He entered it as a man and participated in it and conquered it.

[Jill]

He entered it, and he wants to be.

[Phil]

That's where I was going. And passed the test. Well, when you kind of look at the Old Testament history, what he's trying to get them to bridge the gap is, look, you see there was a bunch of shadows that was predicting me coming here. And you start thinking about Moses and Noah and Abraham and even Job. You have this one person that God has chosen to reveal, a way to survive and have hope and promise. And even though all of them eventually didn't pass the test, they either did something really stupid that you're like, boy, they did something great, and then they did something stupid, or they died like Job. I mean, eventually he got, you know, all his blessings back, but, you know, at the end of the day, he died and that was it, and moved.

[Jase]

On, and he still lost all his kids.

[Phil]

Yeah, but you see now Jesus. And it makes me think of that verse in 2nd Corinthians 5 when it says, for when he died, Jesus all died. He basically made God through the one chosen one, his own son, allowed everybody to die to their old self. And by him dying for forgiveness, because he passed the test, which we just mentioned, the temptation by the evil one. Well, he passed that test. You know, every other person that was a human failed that test at some point. And so you're thinking, okay, well, let's give him an award, a ceremony. And no, he winds up dying so the rest of us could die to our old selves and live. I mean, that's what 2 Corinthians basically 5 says. And then he now uses us as ambassadors for him, which is why we're running to the pains and the problems and the suffering. And you say, well, you're not doing the miracles that he was doing, because that was a sign to show who he is.

[Zach]

The crazy thing about the signs, though, is Jesus says this when they. Because they had mentioned a sign. We mentioned in the last podcast that we had manna dropping out of the sky. And Jesus is like, yeah, but that didn't come from Moses. You know what I mean? And it goes back. And if you go back to John 5, he says, for if you believe Moses, you would have believed me, for he wrote about me. And so the point is, he's making John 5, which he's coming into kind of this climax in John 6 is you never really believed any of the signs. You never believed them, really, he said, because they were all pointing to me. So if you think about. There's a term, if you're Catholic or Lutheran, you've heard this term, the Eucharist, for something to be. Mainly, the Eucharist means that we call it the Lord's Supper in the church that we grew up in. Some churches call it the Communion, the Lord's Supper, the Eucharist. But it's the bread and the wine that we do. We do it every Sunday.

[Jill]

Or the juice and crackers.

[Zach]

Or the juice and crackers, you know, depending on who you are. Right, but what is that? Because that's what's happening here in John 6. He's really laying out the case for the Eucharist. But what he's actually saying is that man is all men are Eucharistic. And what that means is to be a eucharistic is we take the elements and we ingest the elements, and then those elements are then transformed back into something. So, like, think about when you eat. When you eat food, it goes into your body, and what does it become? Your body? I mean, Al, you're on the. We're on the.

[Jill]

I was thinking.

[Phil]

I was thinking of different.

[Zach]

Me, too.

[Phil]

I don't know where he's going with that waste.

[Zach]

It does produce some waste, but you transform what you ingest, and it becomes you in the end.

[Jase]

So we're celebrating what we call the Holy Season, which is a time we really reflect on Jesus, why he came to earth, his resurrection. And it's Also time to reflect on the greatest creation of all. And that's us. I mean, God made us in psalms, it tells us that he knit us together in our mother's womb. He saw our unformed body. So, Jason, you think about it. I mean, we are one of the greatest gifts that God's ever brought into creation.

[Phil]

Yeah, we're the image of God. We're supposed to be reflecting God's presence.

[Jase]

You know, when we talk about ministries that matter, obviously ministries that matter for life are one of the most important. And our good friends at Preborn Ministries want to remind us that we're made in the image of God. And that's what they're there to do, protect life, to help young moms, to help young fathers as well. So no matter how you got here, you may have been an unplanned pregnancy yourself. And yet you're here. And the reason you're here is because God has given you life. And so it's important for us to celebrate your life. So we invite you to remember babies in their mother's wombs, because their lives count as well. Last year alone, Preborn's network of clinics rescued over 67,000 babies from abortion. Your tax deductible donation of $28 sponsors one ultrasound and doubles a baby's chance at life. How many babies can you save? Please donate your best gift today. Just dial £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £2 50, baby. Or you can go to preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed.

[Zach]

If you go back to Genesis, chapter one, two, and three, the original Genesis. And then this, what I think he's doing here is a new Genesis. The original genesis is that man was eucharistic first and foremost, that he was created. And God said, hey, you can have any tree in this garden. You can eat of it. And when you eat of it, you're going to eat it. You're dining with me because I'm giving you this as a gift. So the original creation, the goal of humanity when God created, is, I've created this world for you to dine with me. And so when man would eat, he would be eating in communion with God. And then obviously with.

[Jase]

And one of the trees that he was eating from provided something that he ingested that then allowed him to live forever.

[Zach]

Yeah, you know, exactly.

[Phil]

That's right.

[Zach]

You know the song we used to sing? Every blessing you pour out, I turn back to praise.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So that.

[Phil]

That's.

[Zach]

You pour out I turn back to praise.

[Jase]

We done broke out to worship, but.

[Zach]

That'S the song that was that. That they were singing in the garden. They were ingesting every blessing, and then that would come back out into praise and thankfulness to God. But there was this one tree that he said, don't eat that tree. And I think it's wrong for us to understand that as God putting an arbitrary tree, to say, oh, we got to have a test for the humans, you know, so this is the test tree over here, because we got to have the option, right? I don't think that's what it was. I think that tree represents to dine alone, to eat the tree for the fruit, for the sake of the fruit. John Piper, he says, desire becomes idolatrous when it turns in on itself, when it terminates on itself. That's what that tree was. It's like, I'm gonna eat this just for the sake of the fruit. It was good and pleasing to the eye. That's why they hate it. But it was to dine without God.

[Phil]

I think it's a good point, but I do think that there's nothing wrong with the point of are you going to trust what God said, or you want to go out on your own? I mean, I agree, but they were also. It came down to that belief.

[Jill]

Do you believe?

[Zach]

But believe what? Believe.

[Jill]

Can I read from John six?

[Jase]

Yeah, he does.

[Jill]

Because this verse, I think you're talking about, well, who's in, who's out, how are they getting there? All the things. And sometimes to me, verse 40 is the verse that we should probably focus more on, because it says, for this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life. And I will raise him up on the last day. That's the verse right after the one that talks about, I won't lose any.

[Zach]

Well, let me add to that, because when he says that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, then you have to go with John 17:3, because he defines eternal life as communion with him. So now we're back in the garden, eating from the tree of life. I mean, that's the point. So it's like all these rivers and these veins, the way I would imagine, there's all these veins, but they're all going to the same center, heart, which is the heart of God. It's communion with God. So the point that he's making in John 6 is he's saying that, no, I'm reestablishing the Eucharist. But this time you got to understand we're ingesting Christ. We're actually eating the flesh of Christ and drinking his blood. That sounds like cannibalism. No, you're missing the point. What he's saying is to commune, to ingest Christ is to ultimately become or to be conformed into the image of Christ.

[Phil]

And that's the Romans 8.

[Zach]

Romans 8, yeah.

[Phil]

Which is how you operate. I'm glad you brought this up because I think when you brought up Hebrews 11 earlier, that really explains it to me the best. Because somebody asked me one time in a Q and A after I had spoken, did Jesus time travel? And I was like, can you be more specific? But it was basically in this previous story that we read when they were in the boat and it says immediately it reached its destination after he walked on the water. Have you ever thought about that? Yeah, nobody ever talks about it because it seems weird. It's kind of like when Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, he shared about Jesus from Isaiah. He was reading it and he taught him about Jesus. Then he's like, stop the chariot. And they found some water out in the middle of nowhere, baptized them, baptized him, and the eunuch went on. Went on his way, rejoicing. And then it says, Philip was basically tele. Transported to somewhere else. It's like, well, what was that? Was that time travel? So that was the basic part of the question. I'm just giving you the context because I think it's an interesting thought. Where I went to answer the question was Hebrews 11, because. So I'll go through all of the. Moses, Abraham, kind of what Jesus is doing here, you know, Remember Moses wrote about me, but you're not believing that. And then he gets to the last verse, and I'm going to tie this in with what Jill just said. And then it says in verse, what is it, 39.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Phil]

These were all commended for their faith. Which. What is faith? Trust and believing and being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see this trusting. They were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that they only together with us would be made perfect. And I was like, the time travel thing was Jesus, God's grace through Jesus went backwards and forwards, which I was trying to be kind of coy, I guess. I'm just saying, look what Jesus did on the cross in the resurrection that saved people before, presently and after. It was like a time travel Moment, which is maybe why we count time by Jesus. But then the next verse, which shouldn't be a break there, but it gets to chapter 12 and it says, well, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses. So now all these people, he's referring to present form, as in, oh, they're not dead. I mean, even though they're dead, the past let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily untangles, which you mentioned about the evil one, using that against us. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. And let us fix our eyes on Jesus, which is what this is really being made in the image of him, looking at him, saying, oh, this is the gift from heaven for everyone. Before, during, and after that will be. I mean, I think that's kind of the main point, which is why you're going back to the garden. And I agree. I really think Jesus on the cross, which was made from a tree, was actually the new creation symbolic of the choice of. Look at this tree of life. I mean, the tree of Jesus's death actually became the tree of life. Once again, that would be eternal.

[Jase]

And we mentioned earlier that it Jesus, you know, you think about the garden and the kind of sort of idyllic setup there. And then you see Jesus come along and before he ever started his ministry, he goes out after that moment he has where he's baptized, and you see the spirit, you see all this stuff happens. He didn't go to a garden. He goes to the wilderness. And for 40 days, he denies himself that which we use for sustenance. And guess what happens? He gets hit with the same spill that Eve and Adam did way back in the garden. Here's the evil one making the same pitch in three different ways, but instead of it being a tree and a fruit, it's just direct. And what is his answer every time? No God.

[Phil]

Well, that's why I'm making that illustration about the cross. That is the fruit that God is offering on a tree which is his son. And you eat of that. It's like a return to the tree of life that was keeping them alive.

[Zach]

Jase, do you wish you could have invested in the stock market last year when investors scored the highest profits in decades?

[Phil]

I do, and I did.

[Zach]

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[Jase]

Yeah, Zach. I mean, there's certainly been times in my Lisa's life when debt has so crushed us that not only could we not think about investing, we were trying to figure out how. We're just going to go month to month and pay our bills.

[Zach]

Yeah. So I would, I would advise you guys to start building the life that you deserve. Visit donewithdebt.com and talk to one of their strategists. It's free. Go to donewithdebt.com that's donewithdebt.com and the way that that plays out is that as we ingest Christ, as we eat and consume Christ, then that blessing is transformed back into thankfulness and praise and adoration for him. And I think that that's the part that we experience. That's the now and it's the not yet. So I actually have my Bible. Jason, it's so funny you read that Hebrews 11:39. And when you're reading it, I was thinking that I actually had this note written in my Bible. And this is my note around Hebrews 11:39, which it reads, and all these things, I'm sorry. And all these. Though commended through their faith, all the heroes of the faith did not receive what was promised, since God has provided something better for us, that apart from us, they should not be made perfect. So we'll do this together. And the note I have in my Bible is, I call it the surpassing of the threshold of God's kingdom glory. This is the already not yet. More specifically, the not yet that will be realized in the kingdom to come. So we're hanging onto that. And so when you move on to that very next verse, it gives us the motivation. It actually gives us the motivation for hanging on when it gives us Christ as the identity. He says, therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and sin which clings so closely. And let us Run with endurance the race that is set before us. Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith. And here's the part that I want to finish with. Who for the joy. For what? For the joy. Who for the joy? What was the motivation for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising its shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. So Jesus suffered on the cross, you say, what was his motivation? There was a joy that was set before Christ. That was his motivation for the endurance of suffering on the cross, you say, so what should our motivation be for suffering, for the joy that's set before us? Well, what is that joy? And that joy is that we are going to be like. We are going to be one with God. We are one with God because of what's called the finished work of Christ, of what he did on the cross. Christ had that in mind. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. That's the joy. He had something in mind. What did he have in mind? He had union with his creation. That's Genesis.

[Jill]

Dwelling with his people.

[Zach]

Dwelling with his people. It's sadenic language. It is the Garden of Eden all over. He said, I'm going back. I'm going to accomplish what they could not accomplish in the garden, what they ruined in the garden. I'm going to accomplish it on the cross.

[Jill]

And to try to live life outside of the presence of God, that is hell. I think that is what to try to orchestrate your life without the bread of life, without his presence. That is hell. Yeah, that sort of thing. And I was thinking of Moses. Moses. Got that. It's interesting how many times the New Testament refers to Moses. One of my favorite encounters with Moses and the Lord is in Exodus 33. This is right after, you know, the Israelites messed it up and he came down with the Ten Commandments. They had screwed it up. He breaks them. And so now the Lord's telling him to leave Mount Sinai. We're going to do something different. I'm going to initiate something new. And so Moses is worried about leaving. And he says, now, therefore, if I. This is Exodus 33, verse 13. Now, therefore, if I have found favor in your sight, please show me now your ways that I may know you in order to find favor in your sight. Consider too, that this nation is your people. And he said, my presence will go with you, and I will give you rest. And he Said to him, if your presence will not go with me, do not bring us up from here. For how shall it be known that I have found favor in your sight, I and your people? Is it not in your going with us? So that we are distinct, I and your people, from every other people on the face of the earth? And I love this scripture so much because what Moses was saying is, I don't want to go without you. Do not send me anywhere that your presence isn't going with me. And this is Moses. He. He could have. I mean, he. He was the guy, you know, but he did not consider the things he had accomplished to be worth anything outside the presence. Outside of the presence of God.

[Jase]

Right.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Zach]

That's the part about this John 6. Like, we get into it and I mean, I. I think it's fine to like, try to pull out little nuggets about, you know, soteriology or whatever, but at the end of the day, I.

[Phil]

Mean, this is about what is, what is soteriology remote?

[Zach]

Like, that's like the. Where's the cricket button? Like the, like how, like the doctrines of salvation. Like how. You know, like think bigger. You gotta think bigger. We're talking about coming to know in the most intimate. Not just know. To becoming one with the creator of the cosmos. Like we're being. I. I mean like union with Christ. I'm like, with Christ. Union with Christ. That's a big deal. It's like, man, we gotta. You got to think bigger. Yeah, I mean, God, you have to think bigger. That's the picture that's being painted here by Jesus. And I think that they kept going back to the, to the cisterns. Well, how do we. We got to hold it in our doctrines. We got to hold it in our thing. We gotta. We gotta pour it in here. And Jesus, like I'm trying to tell y'all, this is the boys. Y'all need some new wine skins. This is. This will burst.

[Phil]

You need a different kind of bread. Which is why I went to that Matthew 6, because it was like, this is about your existence. You're in eternal. That's why he's using eternal life here. But in my prayer, it was the same concept.

[Jase]

Well, I love you read that in Exodus. And it made me think about Deuteronomy 7 again. Moses writing, he said, the Lord did not set his affection on you speaking of the Israelites, because they're about now, they're looking into going to the promised land and choose you because you are more numerous than other peoples. For you were the fewest of all the people. But it was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath. He swore to your forefathers that he brought you out with a mighty hand. And then he talks about delivering them from Egypt. I love the idea that the only thing special about any of us is if we recognize the love of God.

[Zach]

Absolutely.

[Jase]

I mean, that's the only thing that makes us special, is to realize that so many times we think there's something unique about us. And that was where Moses was in that moment. He said, the only thing great about it you is if you recognize God loves you.

[Jill]

That's exactly right.

[Jase]

And when you do that, then all of a sudden, that changes everything. It changes perspective. And you were using the word ingest. I was saying the word indwell, which is the exact same thing. When the Holy Spirit comes in, that becomes that same process you're talking about. And that only happens when you believe who Jesus is and that he is who he says he was. And therefore he says, your spirit indwells you ingest the more of you. The only way you can see more of Jesus is to have the Holy Spirit living in you to expose you to more Jesus.

[Zach]

And that's the prevention, by the way, of not becoming stale in your faith. Because I thought about this a lot. I saw someone put on Instagram the other day about David, and they were talking about how he written so much of the psalms, and I forgot which one they pulled out, but it was like, man, whoever wrote that line that day was connected with God. He's like, hey, the same guy that wrote this also later on cheated on his wife, murdered a guy. And he's like, man, you can't live on yesterday's spiritual wins. And I thought, man, I want to finish strong. I don't want to live on the encounter I had with Jesus 20 years ago, man. I want more of him today. And that's because the Holy Spirit's going to live in bodies now that God's going to take up residence in our human bodies, that we actually, as time progresses, we can actually grow closer and experience his presence even more. And my hope is that when I'm on my deathbed, when I'm at the end of my journey, when I'm, you know, when I'm in that state, like where my mom was when she. I mean, at the end of her life, like, there's just a frail body left. And I remember going in there the night before she died, and I just sang script. I just sang the. I put on some Shane and Shane and some Alan Jackson. She loved Alan Jackson gospel. And I just. And she couldn't communicate anymore. And half time I'm like, I don't even know if she's aware of what's going on. But when I played them songs, you know what she did? Just tears. Tears. I could look in her eyes and I was like, she's ready to go. She's ready to go.

[Jase]

Because you were in touch with the spirit that's connected to the Holy Spirit.

[Zach]

But that's a life well lived.

[Jase]

That's exactly.

[Zach]

And so that's what. That's what. That's the picture.

[Phil]

I think the practical question is, what is a day in your life without Jesus?

[Zach]

That's a good question.

[Jill]

What is it?

[Phil]

Nothing good.

[Zach]

It's a waste.

[Phil]

It's a waste.

[Zach]

It's a waste.

[Phil]

And you're wasting, you know, the food that he's given you.

[Jase]

Well, and we're out of time. I know.

[Phil]

I actually wanted to read the text, but maybe we've talked about it so much that the next time we can read it.

[Zach]

Jill's got it close.

[Jill]

This was in my Bible, but I.

[Jase]

Think you get the last word.

[Jill]

It is fitting. From Psalm 81:10. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt. Open your mouth wide and I will fill it.

[Jase]

There you go.

[Jill]

That'll eat, that'll preach.

[Jase]

Thank you, Jill. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.

[Phil]

It.