Ep 1079 | Jase Contemplates Taking Back Missy’s Diamond Ring After Discovering Biblical Gemstones

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ep 1079 | Jase Contemplates Taking Back Missy’s Diamond Ring After Discovering Biblical Gemstones

---

Podcast Information:

• Title: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
• Host: Tread Lively
• Episode: Ep 1079
• Release Date: April 23, 2025
• Description: The Robertsons openly share their Christian faith, delving into the Bible and God's Word while sharing inspiring stories of faith and family from West Monroe, Louisiana.

---

Introduction

In Episode 1079 of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family," host Tread Lively engages in a profound discussion centered around biblical interpretations of gemstones, their symbolic meanings, and their relevance to Christian faith and daily life. The episode delves into theological insights, personal anecdotes, and practical applications, all while fostering an environment of openness and familial warmth.

---

Family Dynamics and Daily Life

The episode begins with the Robertson family reflecting on recent family gatherings post-holiday. Jase Robertson humorously discusses Zach's aversion to large family gatherings:

Jase Robertson [00:36]: "We just had some family down here, which is always nice to get together with family. Unless you're Zach and you're... People averse."

Al Robertson shares his exhaustion from hosting family dinners, highlighting the challenges and rewards of family life:

Al Robertson [01:08]: "I had a great time with my family. I was just exhausted."

Phil Robertson lightens the mood by teasing Al about his exhaustion being a "people problem."

---

Exploring Biblical Gemstones

The core of the episode revolves around a video Jase sent Phil, featuring a scientist interpreting Revelation 21's description of gemstones in heaven. This sparks a theological debate among the family members about the correct interpretation of these passages.

Phil's Insight on Isaiah and Revelation

Phil Robertson connects Isaiah 55:1 with the concept of coming to Jesus, emphasizing the allure of divine provision over material wealth:

Phil Robertson [01:54]: "Isaiah 55:1. Come all come everyone who thirsts... I have bread that costs no money."

He further elaborates on the symbolic meanings of specific gemstones mentioned in Revelation 21, arguing that these gems represent redeemed individuals rather than the physical layout of heaven.

Scientific Interpretation vs. Theological Meaning

Phil critiques the scientist's interpretation, asserting that the gemstones symbolize the church and redeemed people rather than a literal description of heaven's infrastructure:

Phil Robertson [17:25]: "This is a description of the church."

He challenges the accuracy of certain Bible translations, specifically the NIV's rendition of "sardosis" as "rubies," suggesting a deeper theological significance:

Phil Robertson [19:53]: "I disagreed with the guy that this is a picture of heaven. I think it's a picture of the church."

Al and Jase's Contributions

Al Robertson and Jase Robertson add depth to the discussion by connecting the gemstones to the twelve tribes of Israel and the apostles, reinforcing the idea of unity and diversity within the church.

Al Robertson [27:11]: "It's through the light, it's through the revelation of who Christ is, that we essentially gain our agency."

Jase highlights the importance of understanding eternal life as quality of life, not just an unending existence:

Jase Robertson [33:47]: "Eternal life is more about quality of life than quantity of life."

---

Application to Daily Faith and Life

The Robertson family transitions from theological discussions to practical applications of their faith. They emphasize the importance of discernment in consuming cultural symbols, such as diamonds, which Phil suggests may have pagan connotations:

Phil Robertson [42:39]: "How am I going to tell Missy that she needs to throw away this diamond ring that I bought for her?"

Jase underscores the sanctity of life and the pro-life movement, aligning it with their faith:

Jase Robertson [35:28]: "We invited our audience to remember babies in their mother's womb. Their lives count, too."

---

Pro-Life Advocacy

The episode features a passionate plea for supporting the pro-life movement through partnership with Preborn Ministries. Jase and Lisa Robertson discuss the value of every life, emphasizing that each individual is created in God's image:

Jase Robertson [35:17]: "Each one of you is made in the image of God and life is sacred and life is eternal."

---

Theological Reflections and Future Discussions

Phil Robertson reflects on the integration of Old and New Testament teachings, particularly how Jesus fulfills the prophetic visions of Isaiah and Revelation:

Phil Robertson [44:39]: "John 1... lesser gem of humanity... he said he himself was not the light."

Al Robertson connects these theological insights to the broader narrative of the Bible, highlighting the continuity of God's plan across both Testaments.

---

Promoting Spiritual Growth

The Robertson family encourages listeners to engage deeply with Scripture, suggesting specific chapters for future study to better understand the themes discussed:

Phil Robertson [54:19]: "We should give an assignment for the next podcast for our faithful listeners to read Deuteronomy 7 and then chapter 30 and then chapter 32."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Phil Robertson [00:31]: "I am unashamed. What about you?"
• Al Robertson [01:12]: "The grocery bill just starts to skyrocket when everybody's in town."
• Jase Robertson [33:47]: "Eternal life is more about quality of life than quantity of life."
• Phil Robertson [42:39]: "Why did I buy that diamond? That was a reflection that I didn't know my..."
• Jase Robertson [54:19]: "You're Israel's teacher."

---

Conclusion

Episode 1079 of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family" masterfully intertwines deep theological exploration with relatable family dynamics. The discussion on biblical gemstones serves as a springboard for broader conversations about faith, identity, and the sanctity of life. The Robertsons effectively encourage listeners to engage with Scripture, apply their faith in everyday decisions, and uphold the values of diversity and inclusion within a trinitarian framework.

Listeners are left with a profound understanding of how biblical symbols like gemstones can reflect the beauty and complexity of the church and individual believers, all illuminated by the divine light of Jesus Christ.

---

Join the Conversation:

• Subscribe: Stay updated by subscribing on Apple Podcasts and YouTube.
• Engage: Leave a rating and review to support the podcast.
• Connect: Follow the Robertsons on their social media platforms to continue exploring faith and family topics.

---

This summary captures the essence of Episode 1079, providing both depth and clarity for those who haven't listened to the full episode.

Transcript

[Sponsor]

This episode is brought to you by Indeed. When your computer breaks, you don't wait for it to magically start working again. You fix the problem. So why wait to hire the people your company desperately needs? Use Indeed's sponsored jobs to hire top talent fast. And even better, you only pay for results. There's no need to wait. Speed up your hiring with a $75 sponsored job credit@ Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

[Phil Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Jase Robertson]

Welcome back to Unashamed. It's always, we just had a holiday, so we had some family down here, which is always nice to get together with family. Unless you're Zach and you're. What did he call it? People. People averse.

[Al Robertson]

I had a great time with my family. I was. I was just exhausted. I was really just exhausted.

[Phil Robertson]

He had an exhaustion problem out that exhaustion problem.

[Al Robertson]

I called it the wrong thing. I called it a people problem or something like that.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, that was probably not a great phrase.

[Jase Robertson]

When you give you an opportunity to confess your sins.

[Al Robertson]

Let me tell you something. I mean, you guys know this. That grocery bill, it just starts to skyrocket when everybody's in town. You're like, I mean, I was cooking every meal. We got home from church. I mean, I went to the store immediately. I bought a. About a 8 pound tenderloin beef. Tenderloin came back, I trimmed that, smoked it, got the smoker ready. I do a whole, like, process where I smoke it, then I sear it on another grill. And I mean, did I make a chimichurri sauce? I mean, so then. Then everybody eats. And it was just. It was just every day. It was that for about four days.

[Phil Robertson]

You know what's hit me? I finally realized, what was the smoking gun? Do you come into Jesus?

[Al Robertson]

What Was that?

[Phil Robertson]

Isaiah 55:1. Come all come everyone who thirsts. Come to the waters. Wait for it, Zach. And he who has no money, come by and eat. Come buy wine and milk without money. Your cheapskate type tendencies actually led you to Jesus because he said, I have bread that costs no money.

[Al Robertson]

I came. I came with what Francis Schaefer called the empty hands of faith. I had nothing in my hands. I knew that. I was.

[Phil Robertson]

I was.

[Al Robertson]

There was a baby, remember?

[Jase Robertson]

What was it back in John 2? How many gallons of wine did Jesus turn from water into wine? I mean, that sacks right up his alley. It's like, man, free wine.

[Al Robertson]

Gallons of wine.

[Phil Robertson]

That's funny. I don't care who you are. All right, so I had a funny little thing that happened and speaking of passages in Isaiah that I said I was going to get back to, my son sent me a video and it was like a seven minute video. And he said, what do you think about this? So it was a scientist who was basically breaking down a passage in Revelation 21. And what's also funny about the conversation before I get into that is, you know, Reed was also asking me like what to tell his mom about because they're. We're rebuilding our house which has been a year since our house got hit by a tornado. And I, I was like, Reed, isn't she there? And he's like, well, yeah, but I'm asking you because pretty sure she's asleep. It was like in the morning he was at my house, he was ask.

[Al Robertson]

He didn't want to wake her up.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, he didn't want to wake her up, which I thought was funny, but I was like, well, why don't you go in there and ask her? So I think that provides some tension because you were talking about family because you know, it's, you have your son rebuilding your house, which you think, oh, that's great that you have a son that can do that. But it's also tense for him because you're rebuilding your parents house. So the standard has gone up. Because if anything goes wrong, I realized in the moment what he was actually asking. He was like, the pressure here is about more than I can bear.

[Jase Robertson]

And let's face it, James, some parents and we have, we have one who don't like to be woken up. You know, the, the rule was in our house, unless it's the President or Lynyrd Skynyrd, don't wake dad up.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, and I was with my kids and we actually converted Missy into that same manner. I mean she, she did, she will do anything not to wake him by up. And you don't wake her up. It's just like I've explained that to little man because he's like, where's Lee? He calls her Lulu. I do not.

[Al Robertson]

If you wake me up. I don't, I don't like it. I don't think it's godly.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I told my kids I don't think it's God. I said, you wake me up. Well, my, I framed it around when start providing some of the resources around here. And so we had a rule. I forgot what the exact rule was, but you can only awake me if you're bleeding out of some kind of orifice, have a broken bone. It was something graphic like you're. You're basically dying.

[Al Robertson]

There's. There are. There are always exceptions to the rule.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, but outside of that.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. So that's stuck in Reed psyche. So he's got that in him. Just the DNA of that. So he's afraid to wake Missy up. But he sends you the. They send you the video, which you. I wish you would send that to me. That's. That's very interesting.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay, so let me talk about this video and send me the video. I'm not gonna send it to you yet, because you're gonna be. You'll watch it while.

[Jase Robertson]

While you're explaining it.

[Phil Robertson]

Zach, I appreciate your transparency, and you're. You're basically owning your V to the world.

[Jase Robertson]

That's it.

[Phil Robertson]

But I hate to tell you this. You. You have ADD before, that was a thing.

[Jase Robertson]

Now they're saying it's not a thing, but I'm saying, look at Zach and Willie. It is a thing.

[Al Robertson]

How many times are we on this podcast? It never makes it on the podcast, but how many times have y'all heard a video play? I accidentally. I'll read. I'm watching a video and I just read the sound, but sometimes I'll forget to turn the sound off. And we're having a recording session, and you guys, like, here start to pop up like, what was that?

[Phil Robertson]

So you can't say you're not transparent. And look, I think in light of John 3 at the end, where it says, we. We bring out our. Our failures into the light, because on the other side of darkness. Oh, actually, this is going to go perfect. I didn't do this on purpose with what I'm talking about. Look, I'm pretty sure. ADD Look, I'm pretty sure I'm going to read this, because now it's like, ding, ding, ding, ding. The Lord, the spirit, has moved and given me a thought. It's really good. But I want to say something, Zach, because you're one of the smartest people I know. I mean, I don't rank the smart people I know. And I only have a few people that I hang around with that are really smart and part of my inner circle, which Zach is in that inner circle because I'm just not real bright. Irony of this world. I'm fixing to talk about light.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. But let me just. You are very bright. This is.

[Phil Robertson]

No, that's not true. Well, God has turned the light switch on, but it's. I'm in total. I mean, if I can do this, anybody can do it. So what I'm going to try to do here Because I'm pretty sure, even though you're one of the smartest people I know, that you've never heard what I'm fixed to talk about.

[Al Robertson]

I've never heard it. Is this how to do it?

[Phil Robertson]

And Al, I don't think you've ever heard this. I had never heard this when I watched the video. Now, Zach, he doesn't claim to know all, but he claims to know most, so that's a big thing.

[Al Robertson]

I do not.

[Phil Robertson]

I do not. Well, I'm on a roll today. I hope you're recording all this. That's not true. So I want to read this John 3, because this was not part of what I was going to talk about, but it. The Holy Spirit spoke. So when in verse 19, where he says, this is the verdict, light has come into the world. But men love darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. And everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. Oh, this goes perfect with what I'm to share. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

All right. This is going to be awesome. We're probably going to go viral with what I'm fixed to say. Because, look, the video I watch, as spectacular as it was, it hasn't gone viral. There was just a few people that have seen it. I mean, I. I don't know the number. I could look it up real quick, but it's not that many. And. And the earliest. And there was three videos, and two of them was by the same guy. Then there was a European guy who, theologically, he didn't get into theology much. He. He did quote a few verses, but he wasn't a dynamic speaker, so the one I listened to had the dynamic speech. The problem was his theology. When he got to the end, I did not agree with. I'm just going ahead and saying it because I'm sure some of y'all are going to look this video up after I'm finished. And so I think he missed the most important thing. So I never would recommend the video because I'm like, well, this guy had a wondrous. This science guy had a wondrous discovery that no one seems to know about.

[Al Robertson]

Al, Jill and I have been using the Abide app for some time now. She started using it in Costa Rica when we went on a mission trip. She had trouble sleeping at night. So she downloaded this app and started listening to the devotionals.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, it's interesting. I listened to mine first thing in the morning. And the very first one I listened to was Jesus on the cross, basically talking to John and Mary and, you know, connecting, protecting them. That because he was leaving. And the whole, you know, devotional thought was about your parents. What happens, you know, when you have to take care of them. And it was, you know, because of what we're going through with mom and dad, it was just a super encouraging thing to get my day started. I loved it.

[Al Robertson]

I love that. And, you know, if you want to sense, like a trajectory of this podcast, we really believe in abiding in God's word, that long obedience in the same direction. Use that line all the time. Abide is an app that helps us do that. Abide is the number one Christian meditation app. Abide users report less stress, lower anxiety levels, lower depression, and better sleep. In the case of Jill and myself, you can start your day with Abide's daily meditations, which are all based on biblical scripture. And these audio meditations, they'll bring you peace because they're bringing you closer to Christ getting into God's word. Abides meditation started about two minutes long. So they're really easy to fit in your schedule. They cover topics like overcoming anxiety, managing stress, addiction recovery, and finding forgiveness. And a whole lot more like an owl's case, you know, dealing with parents. So here's what you need to do if you're ready to find the rest while you deepen your relationship with God. Download the Abide app today. And for a limited time, our listeners will get 25% off a premium subscription when you text unashamed to 22433. That's 25% off a premium subscription when YOU text unashamed to 22433.

[Phil Robertson]

So that's my. That's my lead up to this. And I want to read the Isaiah 54 because I promised on the last podcast I'd do that. And, and I do want to say that my son sent this to me. So when my. When I responded to his text, I said, this is awesome. I think I put I love this in all caps. I said, however, he did miss one vital point about Revelation 21. Okay, so if you read the Isaiah 54 that I purposely skipped over, it was verse 12. Yeah, 11 and 12. Remember when we read this about this idea of Israel being God's wife? And look, I want to say something too about created in the image of God before the beginning of time. You know, this was God's plan to bring Jesus for those from all nations to be gathered under one head. That is Christ. Think Ephesians 1 or Colossians, you know, says that. And so in that light, he's talking about. He's predicting salvation, among other things, reconciliation, everlasting love. You know, we read the verse in John 6 about your children. You know, you'll teach your children. You'll pass this on to your children. I mean, there's hope coming. Well, right in the middle of this, in Isaiah 54, he says in verse 11, O afflicted one, storm tossed and not comforted. Behold, I will set your stones in. Well, this says antimony. I don't even know what that means.

[Jase Robertson]

Turquoise.

[Phil Robertson]

Turquoise, okay.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And lay your foundation with sapphires. I will make your pinnacles of a gate. Well, these are all precious stones, all right? All of your wall of precious stones. Oh, that's what verse 12 says. And then verse 13 says what John quotes Jesus as saying from here in Isaiah. So one of the odds. I'm studying this. My son sends me this video. So here's what the video is about. This science guy says he. He refers to Revelation 21. And I want to read it, all right? This is. This is gonna. This is gonna blow your mind.

[Jase Robertson]

Which I thought, Jason, before we started, I said, are you gonna wind up in Revelation? You said, yes. So I was thinking that's where you.

[Al Robertson]

Second to the last chapter in the Bible.

[Phil Robertson]

And I want to just say this right now for you, who are just catching up, that Isaiah 54, when he's describing the jewels, he's describing the people of Israel being redeemed in Jesus, would y'all agree the jewels are representative of the people? So keep that in mind, because when you get to Revelation 21, people who read this lose their mind. And this scientist was saying, look, he said, you know what heaven. Here's how he framed it. He said, you know what heaven's going to be like? It's going to be filled with these gemstones, these 12 of them. And he read. Now, I disagreed with that statement, by the way, theologically. But. And the reason. Well, before I give the reason, I'll go ahead and read the verse. So in verse nine, one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the lamb. Well, does that sound familiar? Does that sound familiar? Look, that goes first. We go back to Isaiah saying that Israel would again be God's bride. But then it also goes to, like, Ephesians 5, we're the bride of Christ. Because through Jesus dying, Being buried and raised, the Spirit being poured out. People responding to Jesus. Nations from all under heaven become the bride of Christ. Thank Matthew 28. Great commission. All right, we got all that. So then let me keep reading. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven. Now, this scientist, bless his heart, he's fixing to reveal something that is absolutely stunning. However, he. Has this been depicted as heaven. And I just read that this came out of heaven. And if you go back to the first verse of this, in Revelation 21:1, he saw a new heaven, a new earth. The first earth had passed away and there was no longer any sea. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride, beautifully dressed for her husband. So I'm just asking you, who do you think is talking about, what is this city?

[Jase Robertson]

It's got to be people. I mean, it's got to be.

[Phil Robertson]

It's got to be people. This is a description of the church. So anyway, now look at verse 11 of Revelation 21. It shone with the glory of God. Look, its brilliance was like that of a precious jewel. Sound familiar? Isaiah 54. Like a Jasper. Clears crystal. It had a great high wall with 12 gates and 12 angels of the gates. Now, does that sound familiar? How many tribes were there in Israel?

[Al Robertson]

12.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. How many disciples did Jesus or apostles did Jesus pick? 12. Seems to be a common theme here. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. Well, that answered that question. That's what we're talking about. All right, so you have all these gates and foundations and the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Okay, verse 15. The angel who talked, he had a measuring rod. So he starts measuring this. I'm going to skip down to verse 18. The wall was made of Jasper. The city of pure gold. As pure as glass. The foundations of the city, they had walls with every kind of precious stone. Now watch. The first foundation was Jasper. The second, sapphire. The third. I can't even pronounce it. What does your version say? A gate. A gate. Well, a gate. Which is what? The same one in Isaiah? The fourth? Emerald. The fifth. What do you have as the fifth?

[Al Robertson]

Onyx.

[Phil Robertson]

Onyx. The sixth? Carnelian or Sardosis. The seventh. Chrysolite. Yeah, the eight barrel. What do you have as the ninth and tenth?

[Jase Robertson]

Topaz.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, that's what I have.

[Jase Robertson]

Chrysoprase.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. So you have these 10 jewels.

[Jase Robertson]

Now here's amethyst. Is in there.

[Phil Robertson]

Now look, there was two things that happened. One, I disagreed with the guy that this is a picture of heaven. I think it's a picture of the church. Number two, and I'm going to prove that even further. And number two, in the NIV that I had, it had number six, it had rubies. Bad translation. It's the only translation that has rubies. But when I looked up the Greek word, it has that sardosis or what was the one y'all had?

[Jase Robertson]

Onyx.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, or maybe, I think that was the fifth. Maybe it was onyx, but whatever. So here's what the scientist says. This is what the six minute video is about. And he's telling this fellow, he's like, well, in the last 50 years we have figured out how to make light streamline, like make it pure, what they call pure light. And he went through this whole thing that was totally on my head about the reason we, you know, light reflects in all kinds of different ways. But they figured out just in the last few years how to concentrate it. And so think the way I understood, he had an illustration about wearing sunglasses that were polarized because he called it polarized light. Well, you can get rid of some light through the glasses because you're more focused on one set of light than others. And it actually creates a buffer for the light. So anyway, he went through this whole deal. And so what's fascinating about this, the polarized light, the. And think laser lights, he also used that, you know, like have a laser going, going through space or whatever. It's just we figured out this through technology and all that. So what happened was some of these scientists got together and who are believers and actually started putting these different kinds of jewels because what's what people are fascinating. And which is why I believe the NIV got that one translation wrong. Because sardosis is a lot like a ruby in that it's red, but it's like a ruby is a ruby. And so you see why they translated that. Because they wanted a better jewel. But what's Fascinating is these 10 jewels that are mentioned here are not what we in our society view as the best jewels. I mean, if I said, what is the best jewel? What's the first thing you think of?

[Al Robertson]

Diamond.

[Phil Robertson]

A diamond. Well, that diamonds. That's enough. Because he said, what happened under a microscope, when you use pure light and you take these jewels and you refine them down and look at it through a microscope using pure light, what they found was when they did all jewels, a lot of the jewels Were went gray, white or black. No colors. When you purified the light and things like diamonds, it just looks. Think coal. It looks like coal. And he's showing you the pictures of this under a microscope using pure light. But did you know that all 10 of these listed here, not only do they become brighter, they all look like a rainbow with colors like becoming almost greater than you could ever imagine.

[Jase Robertson]

So, Jace, I don't know if you know this or not, but you and I were young lads, young men, I guess, in. In the school of preaching. And the first time I heard the word martyr was actually from you. You'd been reading a book and you were telling me about how much it inspired you. Do you remember that?

[Phil Robertson]

I do remember that because I just remember thinking, why would these people who were eyewitnesses of Jesus choose to give their life or have it taken from them rather than deny that Jesus was who he said he was? Very inspiring.

[Jase Robertson]

Those inspirational stories continue on because persecution is all around the world. And Voice of the Martyrs is a group that highlights that their radio host is a guy named Todd Nettleton. And Todd has written that Jace has there. If you're watching when faith is forbidden. 40 days on the front lines with persecuted Christians. And what Ty did is he traveled around for 20 years into restricted nations to interview these courageous Christians who live their faith a great personal cost. And he told their stories. And that's what this book is about. These bold believers, what they went through for Christ, what they continue to go through for Christ. Every stop on the journey becomes a challenge for your walk and my walk with Christ, just to be able to be inspired by what these folks have done. So we don't want you to miss out on the opportunity. So you can request your free copy of When Faith Is forbidden by calling 844-463-4059. That's 844-463-4059, or you can visit vom.orgunashamed. that's vom.orgunashamed.

[Phil Robertson]

What the guy's point was is we just discovered that in the last 50 years. How did the writer of the book of Revelation know that? You think, well, maybe he just got lucky, you know, which I think he was carried along by the Holy Spirit. But it comes back to what I started to in John 3, when, if you're basing it on human eyes, we pick the diamonds, the rubies, the opal. Well, none of these reflect under a microscope with intense light. Well, think about all the verses that says, you know, God lives in unapproachable light. You know, and think about too, where Revelation is going when it says, verse 22, I did not see a temple in the city because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. Look at the next verse. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. So get the picture of what he's really writing. You take these stones that are precious stones, but they're not the ones that we think are the best. But when you look at them through the eyes of God's light, his illustration as this is the vision of people that are redeemed by God. They're actually way more beautiful and colorful than you could ever imagine.

[Jase Robertson]

Wow, that's pretty good.

[Phil Robertson]

And I was like, but look, the guy missed the whole point because he said, this is what. This is the place you're going. So that's why it just went. I was like, no, these are the people.

[Jase Robertson]

This is the place we are.

[Phil Robertson]

This is the people that are described by God being redeemed by the blood of Christ and being transformed into light that becomes even greater than we could ever ask or imagine. And that's the way we're depicted as our eternal dwelling. How did the. How did the writer of this revelation have that knowledge?

[Al Robertson]

Because he was. It was revealed to him by the Holy Spirit. When you were saying that, a couple things popped in my mind. The first, I'll. I'll take us there. I want to go to three places. But the first thing I thought about was Ephesians 3:10, which I'll tell you in a second what that says. But then I was reminded of the end of the Hebrew canon. So the. What we canonize is the Hebrew Scriptures. The very last verse in the Hebrew canon is 2nd Chronicles chapter 36, verse 23. So this is how the entire Hebrew canon ends. It ends with a direct call for the Messiah to appear and to build a temple in Jerusalem. This is what it says. I mean, this is how the whole thing ends. Verse 23. Thus says Cyrus, King of Persia, the Lord, the God of heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, and he has charged me to build him a house at Jerusalem, which is Judah. Whoever is among you, all of his people, may the Lord his God be with him. Let him go up. So you see that the Hebrew canon ends with a call for the messianic figure to build a temple. Fast forward, move to the New Testament. Jesus says, destroy this temple. I'll rebuild it in three days. Speaking of his body, they do destroy the temple. He does rebuild it. In three days, his body's resurrected. He becomes, according to the book of Ephesians, the cornerstone of the temple. And now he's going to graft all people into this eschatological kingdom, which is exactly the thing that he's talking about in Revelation 21. Because he said, I looked around, I didn't see a temple. I didn't see a temple. Why? Because the Lamb himself is the temple. He's the cornerstone of the temple where the living stones built upon the temple. The whole point of it is the Gentiles will now be grafted in with Jewish people into becoming a holy temple, built upon the cornerstone, growing up into the temple of the Lord. I think that's in Ephesians 2. Skip over to Ephesians 3. And he says, that is the mystery. What I just said is the mystery that the Gentiles are going to be grafted in. The mystery that was hidden for ages. But he says that through the Church, the manifold wisdom of God might be known to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. And do you know that word manifold? You know, a lot of people translate that to be multicolored. A multicolored variation of the kingdom.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, that's what the manifestation word means. I've. I've noticed that before too. Which look, I mean, this is so. I mean, to me it's so exhilarating. I mean, that's why it was so exciting. I mean, that's how the church, to your point, is being described here.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, and Jace, I thought about. I thought about one thing when you were describing that the. Whenever the earth flooded when. Because you know, it never rained until the flood. I mean we never read about any race said there were mist, you know, that went over and, and watered things. And all of a sudden there's this massive rainfall. So as skies turn dark, 40 days and 40 night, it's. It's such a rain, such a flood of the deeps open. And then what was the sign that there would be something better than just sin and death? It was refracted light through water, which is what we know as a rainbow.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. Which was a sign of a promise.

[Jase Robertson]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

So what happens? I love man. It's really good, Jason. I mean, I looked up the word manifold in lexicon. Diverse, various. Multicolored is literally much varied and means many sided, variegated, greatly diversified, abounding in variety. So when I think about that, I'm thinking, man, there's like nations, people, diversity, complexity. And if you read Revelation 21, 26 says, they will bring into the glory and the honor of the nations. I mean, you see, the picture is right here in Revelation 21. Like, that's interesting in that it's through the light, it's through the revelation of who Christ is, that we essentially gain our agency. We don't lose our diversity in that. It's that something beautiful happens through the illumination of the light, the pure light. That's Christ. That the diversity becomes highlighted and at the same time and magnified and at the same time, there's some weird way that it's all unified.

[Phil Robertson]

No, I agree. That's what stood out to me too, was the fact that we're not diamonds. We're not. It's not the ones we would think. Because when you think you're something, you think you're a diamond. You don't think you need God. You know, it's like to me, that was. They didn't talk about all this. I mean, you got to remember these are. These are kind of boring scientists that stumbled upon something and they weren't even making the points that I thought they should be making. I was like, one thing is this is. This is us. Are you crazy? And another thing, I wrote down some notes because this was obviously over my head on the light part. So the ones that turn gray, black, or white, like the. Under this intense light, it's called isotropic. And just in case you want to research this, the ones that turned into the beautiful rainbows beyond the colors that they even have, was called an isotropic. But you know what? The process that they called. That they didn't even mention to discover this was called that. They. They call it. It's called cross polarized light because light reflects off so many things that. And so. But they called it the cross. You get it? The cross was like. Well, you buried the lead there, dude. I mean, stop. Take a time out On. On what? You know, how we became new creatures.

[Jase Robertson]

I love Jay's that you described. What he missed about it is the same thing. I have to say, most of religious people and people of God miss it too, when they misunderstand that eternal life is more about quality of life than quantity of life. I mean, we've made it more just about the idea of forever instead of the idea forever. What? Forever being the light of God. I mean.

[Phil Robertson]

And that begins now.

[Jase Robertson]

Yes, exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

Look, it's the same thing about, you know, imaging God that we've been discussing, and that God's kingdom is among the earth now we're members of it. And the quality that you have as being a representative of the kingdom. And now, I mean, just in light of that, just think of that. I mean, you're whatever jewel you want to be in that list through God's light shining on you. Oh, you're more way more spectacular than any jewel to the eye out there of the earth on the earth, you.

[Al Robertson]

Know, which is interesting because the world, particularly in, like, secular leftist culture, is attempting to hold up diversity. And by doing so, they're actually trying to create, ironically, a homogenous, like, singular identity, and they end up erasing diversity. And that's one of the points that Francis Schaeffer makes in his book, I forgot what book it was in. But he talks a whole lot about how it's only in the framework of a triune God that you can actually elevate and maximize diversity and unity. I think that's what's beautiful about the kingdom, what we're seeing here. Like, this is the. If you really want, if you really believe in diversity and inclusion, oh, yeah, this is it.

[Phil Robertson]

True.

[Al Robertson]

Diversity and inclusion can only happen within a trinitarian framework because God is both diverse and he is one.

[Jase Robertson]

So, as all of you know, we're all super engaged here on the Unashamed podcast in the pro life movement. Lisa and I speak around the country. Most of our opportunities to speak are on behalf of the unborn. And we take that as a great sense of responsibility because of our own testimony, but also because it's so needed. We know in Psalms we learned that God knit you together in your mother's womb. He saw your unformed body. So he saw that you were created before you even became you. Preborn Ministries is someone that we partner with. And they want to remind you that each one of you is made in the image of God and life is sacred and life is eternal. You may have come to earth as an unplanned pregnancy, but whether planned or unplanned, your life has value. And every day of your life is ordained by God. So please take a moment to thank God for life. And we invite you to remember babies in their mother's womb. Their lives count, too. Last year alone, Preborn's network of clinics rescued over 67,000 babies from abortion. Your tax deductible donation of $28 sponsors one ultrasound and doubles a baby's chance at how many babies can you save? Please donate your best gift today. Just dial £250 and say the keyword baby, that's £250, baby. Or you can go to preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed.

[Al Robertson]

I know that's mind boggling for us, but it is who God is. And so he is going to. He made us in his image. He doesn't erase our autonomy. He doesn't. He didn't create a bunch of robots. I mean, he created image bearers that image him. And part of that imaging of him is that we actually live out our colorful, diverse giftings for his glory. And that creates an overflows in the new life and life abundantly.

[Jase Robertson]

But I also look at how the evil one tries to rob that because I mean, remember the man of lawlessness in Second Thessalonians? The idea he masquerades as an angel of light. It's this false light.

[Phil Robertson]

And I think about it, it's like a diamond.

[Jase Robertson]

It's like a diamond. And everybody looks at and says, oh, or look at the rainbow. I mean, it's been hijacked by a lifestyle in our culture that we look at now. We see a rainbow and flag. And they were like, oh, man. And we're all depressed. It was our sign first.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, that's why, that's why when I asked y'all, had you ever heard this, I knew you hadn't. Because people, you know, we've given up the rainbow as people of God because they're like, oh, there's another group of people that. They've made that their fl. Oh, no. That was God's flagship. And I just read to you, we need to bring it back. You need to wake up tomorrow and say, hey, I'm a sapphire set on fire by the pure light of Jesus shining through me. Step back and allow me to burn in front of you. I mean, that was the idea here of this Revelation 21. I mean, it's like you've been set on fire in a good way by the pure light of Jesus.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, there's a there. I don't know if this is actually true. I think it's debatable, but I won't say it like it's true because it's awesome if it. Whether it's true or not, but it was one of the Wesley brothers. I can't remember which one. They would. Everywhere this guy would go, John Wesley. I think it was John Wesley. Everywhere he would go and preach a revival would break out and it was like, everybody's like, man, like you have like this incredible anointing on you. Like, what Is your secret. What is the, what's your method? They want to know. They wanted to know the method of his technique so that they could replicate this revival renewal movement. And it's written that he said this. Not sure if he really said, yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

I've read this too. You're on target. You've got the right guy.

[Al Robertson]

He said, all I do is I catch on fire and people come to watch me burn.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I thought, yeah, that's good. You know what's funny about this video? So I said there was three videos that nobody much has watched. Well, at the end of one of them, they had found a sermon from like 30 or 40 years ago. And it was a clip and think, you know, like a charismatic preacher. I mean he was, he was preaching this without any scientific knowledge, but basically saying there was something he, he had figured out without the scientific research that I shared with you, that he chose lesser jewels because of this principle of God shining the light which made you bright. He didn't even know the research, which I thought was really cool because I thought, that's a spirit filled preacher who had figured it out without any scientific research. Which I thought, kudos to that guy. Tip of the hat. That's why I asked you, had y'all ever heard this? Had you ever heard this before?

[Al Robertson]

I hadn't.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I have not.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, well, good. I, I made a prediction.

[Jase Robertson]

But I was going to say, Jay, there's a talk about culture. There's a show out right now and someone, the only reason I'm aware of it is someone sent me a note and asked me if I'd ever heard of it. It's called the Righteous Gemstones. And I, and I think it's on one of the premium channels on cable. And so I looked, I looked it up. I said no. And so I looked it up. See what. And it's basically a spoof of like religious people and like this family people. Their names are gemstone, but they're all fake, they're all false and they're, they're all just money grubbers.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, it's a, it's. They're, they're highlighting and, and turning into a satire more kind of your prosperity gospel preachers.

[Jase Robertson]

Right, Exactly. But I just thought to your name of it, talking about these gemstones. I thought, man, that's exactly what the whole. It's always the world is always about. That which is not real. It's the fake gemstone.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, here's the problem now is like, so I, because my wife's out of town. And so I'm doing this. My son sent this to me and I was like, it made me feel so good that my son found this despite it not having many views and sending and saying, what do you think about this? Because he wasn't like, oh, this is the greatest. He was just like, what do you think about this? But what hit me was one, I'm really glad my son is sending his dad videos about Bible things, saying, what do you think? And number two is it hit me. I thought after I finished all this, three hours later, after I went down on these rabbit holes, I thought, how am I going to tell Missy that she needs to throw away this diamond ring that I bought for her? Because this is almost a form of, you know, pagan ritualistic worship here. I was like, oh no, why did I buy that diamond? That. That was a reflection that I didn't know my.

[Jase Robertson]

No, no, James, you're looking at the wrong way. That's okay to have because we don't look at that and says, man, that's beautiful. It sparkles. But just realize that the God's gemstones are worth way more.

[Al Robertson]

I'm gonna push back on you, Al. I. I think that she does need to get rid of it. And I would invite our entire audience to send your diamonds to move to.

[Phil Robertson]

Dispose of oh, money man diamonds.

[Al Robertson]

And I will dispose of them properly because it is. You should not.

[Jase Robertson]

But the reason this hits home to me, Jace, is because we just had a new insurance guy. You know, our buddy Richard did our insurance and we had to tally up how much jewelry. Lisa had to know an amount of what it's worth to insure it. And I was embarrassed. I thought there was over a lifetime of. Of collection. But I was like, are you kidding? I said we, we might need to have a sell off around here. But that didn't go too well with Lisa, so.

[Al Robertson]

Well, what? You know, it's funny, I'm thinking about one of my best friends is a diamond dealer. He's a wholesale diamond guy. That's what he does.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, by the way, that's. He's got a lot of my money, but that same guy.

[Al Robertson]

So I'm going to.

[Phil Robertson]

I knew this was gonna go viral. I mean, because I was like, this needs to get out, of course, look. And I think it goes back to John 6 in that. Here's Jesus making this illustration. I mean, we went Back to Isaiah 54. Now I've already, you know, gone back there and picked out another verse and gone to Revelation 21 about this picture of the redeemed, you know, in the afterlife. But, you know, through this, I realized some arguments in that one. I didn't like how the NIV translated one of them rubies. And because it made me judge their motives, I thought, oh, they want. Because it's more valuable. So they're like. Because they're looking at it from in my mind, oh, heaven is expensive. You know, their streets of gold. Because that's the same chapter that talks about the streets are paved with gold. Well, do you actually think there's going to be gold streets in this?

[Jase Robertson]

Because what it's actually saying is, is that the idea that gold would be something is like us saying, ooh, look at that asphalt out there in my driveway.

[Phil Robertson]

Now I think it's saying, you are streets of gold. You know, it's a depiction of people living, or let me rephrase that. It's God dwelling with streets of gold that he has made that are actually people. So look, it's fantastic. Which makes us go back to John 1 because, look, Al, it kind of changed the way I viewed where we've gone from John 1 up until now. Because that's why I said that John 3 popped in my head about everything exposed by the light becomes visible, that it should be resulting in praise to God. But think about John 1, where this started in verse 9 or verse 8. We're talking about John the Baptist's role. And think, look, lesser gem of humanity. Because you look at John, he was at a camel skin and ate bugs. And you're not thinking, this is a very powerful person, but God used him and actually called him the greatest human ever born. But he said he himself was not the light. He came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. And I just think it was so fascinating that some bunch of scientists looking at pure, powerful light reflecting in the gem world that is used in Revelation 21, that all of a sudden becomes under a microscope, something way more spectacular than was ever known. Of course they, they were only concerned with how did that writer know that? But I've given you all these practical applications that should just fire up followers of Jesus.

[Al Robertson]

Hey, Jason, have you ever been tricked into a, like buying something that made a claim that when you got the product it wasn't actually true?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I actually, at nine years old, bought shrinking dust for humans.

[Al Robertson]

Here's what you need to know, that there are lots of scams out there. And the one you don't want to get sucked into is the Same old. It's called the free phone game that the big, big wireless companies play it. But what you gotta do is you gotta read the fine print. Like requiring you to sign up for four lines plus activation fees, plus plus plus plus plus and at the end of the day, you don' have a free phone at all. You pay for this thing three times over. There's gotta be a better way. And guess what? There is a better way with our sponsor, Pure Talk. It's my wireless company and they have a much better offer. With a qualifying plan of just $35 a month, you can get a brand new Samsung Galaxy A26 for free. Like really for free. This phone has a virtually indestructible gorilla glass and it captures beautiful wide angle photos with the next generation camera lenses. All you need to do is switch to PureTalk. For just $35 a month. You get unlimited talk text and 15 gigs of data with a mobile hotspot, all on America's most dependable 5G network. I'm telling you, I use this product, I use this network. It's very dependable. The switching process is super easy. It takes less than 10 minutes. We love the work that these guys are doing with veterans. I mean they're literally helping to eliminate veteran debt and they're raising donations to end veteran suicide. We want to be a part of that. Here's what you need to do. Go to puretalk.comunashamed to make the switch again. That's puretalk.comunashamed to claim your free Samsung Galaxy with qualifying plan when you switch to Pure Talk Wireless by Americans for Americans in the Jordan Peterson like kind of orbit or the this other group that went to this thing called the Arc Conference, kind of in that whole orbit. There's a phrase that a lot of people are talking about in culture right now and it's called the meaning crisis. That there's a crisis of meaning that the secular world is like taking note of and thinking, wait, this is a lot of people that at our church, for example, that have come to know Christ. In fact, we had a podcast, not yet now, where I interviewed a couple that came out of Silicon Valley, Jordan and Vanessa Hall. Jordan hall was actually on Jordan Peterson's podcast recently. But they talk about this meaning crisis and they were all they're searching for, like, how do we build this utopia? How do we find meaning in the world? Like everything is just seems to be falling apart. In the age of deconstruction, we don't know what's what anymore. And it's like a real issue that's like people are coming to the end of the rope and they're saying, man, this is not good. There is no meaning. So when you were reading that verse about Jesus being the light of the world, I mean, one of the ways that. That Jesus heals the world is he brings meaning by illuminating and giving things context, by exposing, like we think about. You turn on a light, that's what it does. Like, you can see what's in the room out now there's meaning. I'm not in a dark room stumbling around trying to figure my way out. And I can see the couch.

[Phil Robertson]

I can see the.

[Al Robertson]

The stool on the floor. I can see the things around me, and I can maneuver. And I have context now to interact in. And then the second part of that, which is interesting, because if you get into, like that Jordan Peterson Orbit, or Jonathan Paggio, who's got a podcast out there, who does a lot of iconic art and stuff, there's a whole nother conversation that's directly adjacent to this, which is. Has to do with beauty. And so you. Not only do you find meaning in context in Christ, you find beauty in Christ. And I. And that's what I. When I read that passage in Revelation 21, it's not just a cognitive understanding and a way for me to make sense of the world. It's also a way for me to appreciate and experience the beauty that Christ is in the world.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly. That's why I'm making the point. I realize that Al, in this process that I've delayed the finishing of John 6 once again, but I didn't know y'all were going to be this enamored with this. I'm pleasantly surprised, but I was excited about it. But I just want to say that's why we keep harping on. You must read the Bible, filtering everything through Jesus. He is the light of the world. He does illuminate us. And I'll give you an example of that. When I referenced that first Timothy six passage, I mean, this thing really came to life after what all we've just talked about. Revelation 21, when in 6:12 of 1 Timothy 6, it says, Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold to the eternal life, to which you were called. Which is really what Revelation 21 is describing. Eternity itself with God in the dwelling, with God as people. But here we fight the good fight. This encourages us to do that, these facts that we've just talked about. But then it goes on to say, when you made your good confession, in the presence of many witnesses in the sight of God, which is really what? What? That whole experiment by the scientists, they were taking this incredible force of light that would burn a hole right there. You're looking at a gemstone in the sight of God, who gives life to everything. And of Christ Jesus, who, while testifying before Pilate, made the good confession, I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time, which he's eternal. So that's kind of a aha, thing to say. God, the blessed and only ruler, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Well, we know who that's talking about. Jesus, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. And that's why it makes sense on these passages that John said God, the one and only Son, is at the right hand of God, has made him known. He's made him available. So when you try to read the Bible, like all the people grumbling and arguing with Jesus in John 6, that's what he was trying to connect. This is about me. I want to illuminate you and let you see this.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I think that's so good, because it hits exactly the theme that, that Jesus is hitting here in John Chapter six, because they're not recognizing his light. They're not recognizing him as light, they're recognizing him as the Messiah. And I will say this because we've been in the Old Testament and we're going to go there again because this same theme I wanted to read in Deuteronomy 7, which we will on the next podcast, was way back when, you know, the idea that somehow the people were special but God wasn't, is a false narrative. And that's what continues to happen throughout history. And so that's what Jesus is trying to show them in John 6. The idea is you should know. Remember what he told Nicodemus? He said, you should know this.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

You're Israel's teacher.

[Phil Robertson]

I think we should give an assignment for the next podcast for our faithful listeners to read Deuteronomy 7 and then chapter 30 and then chapter 32, and then just Google a Deuteronomy overview, because that's basically what we're going to do. And I think by doing that, we're going to address some of these arguments. You remember a few podcasts ago where we said the modern religious world, they go to John 6 and they have all these arguments that have come out of John chapter six. And I think we're going to solve a lot of these by reading the Deuteronomy chapters that we just referenced. And I think a light bulb will come on.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And look, it's the same way Jesus presented when he was teaching. He went back and showed that this has all been designed throughout time. And I love this picture that you created, Jason, with the idea that when the eternal shines through us, who are only eternal by the grace of God, I mean, by our own actions, by our own sinfulness, by our own mistakes, by our own frailty and our own limited nature, it can't be in us. So somehow we had to be redeemed for eternity. But that happened when we became believers and we believed in who Jesus was and he sent his spirit to live in our heart. I mean, that's the essence of where we're headed.

[Phil Robertson]

I do think from a personal standpoint, standpoint, too, you know, it's okay to go outside your little camp, which I try not to have a camp outside of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But it shows you that even though I disagreed with some of their theology, you know.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

They revealed something that I thought, oh. So I thought, you know, I'm going to make this video go viral, but it would be better to make our application of being in Jesus go viral, because I think that was what was lacking to this discovery. You know, how it wasn't applied to a place, it was applied to human beings on the planet, which you are one.

[Jase Robertson]

No. That's good. So we're out of time. So you got your assignment. Unashamed Nation. Do a little look into. Do what you said. Do you remember 7, 30 and 32?

[Phil Robertson]

32, the three chapters that I wanted to highlight.

[Jase Robertson]

And we'll touch on that. And it's. At some point. At some point, we're going to Finish up John 6. Just not. Just not anytime soon. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.