← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1088 | Phil’s First Act of Faith & Jase’s ‘Circle of Life’ Lesson to a Toddler Goes off the Rails
00:55:31
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- [00:02]
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- [01:02]
Phil Robertson
I am unashamed. What about you?
- [01:07]
Jase Robertson
Welcome back to Unashamed. We're back in our boxes. That's what I call it when back.
- [01:13]
Zach Dasher
In everybody's different location.
- [01:15]
Jase Robertson
When we're in three different places, we're back in our boxes. I'm in the southern layer, which I know is just something about every time I get the opportunity to come back here is the salty air, the, you know, just. It puts me in a calm mode. Zach, it's my happy place. You have.
- [01:33]
Zach Dasher
My mind's in the mountains. Every time.
- [01:34]
Jase Robertson
I know it.
- [01:35]
Zach Dasher
Every time I come home, I drive up over the ridge and I see the mountains. I'm like, man, that cool, crisp air, it's not bad. Jason, you're down into the sweltering heat of the swamp.
- [01:47]
Phil Robertson
No, what that means is y' all don't get out enough. I mean, yeah, my happy place is anywhere outside. I actually had a happy place experience. I'm passing on the legacy of being known as a wilderness person. We had the little man yesterday, and when he got to our house, Missy had gone and picked him up. When he came in, he said, j Rock, let's go fishing. I mean, that's the first time I've taken him a couple times. You know, when you're three years old, you don't have a lot to offer in the fishing world. You're basically just thinking, let's get out of this alive and in one piece. And you're just kind of. He's observing. Although, you know, it's like you hook the fish, then you hand him the rod and say, hey, try it. And he's like, oh, I got a fish. So we went. We slipped over there to my brother's pond, you know, which I'm a little concerned about this because this is halfway yuppie fishing, you know, but yeah, because.
- [02:54]
Zach Dasher
Because it's in a curated pond. It's that he stocked with fish. So somebody put the fish in there and they. They raised the fish up and they feed them every day and where they. They probably pet them and do stuff like that. Well, they can't.
- [03:07]
Phil Robertson
They can't catch them. You'd have to be able to catch them to pet them.
- [03:12]
Zach Dasher
And I'm just. My point is, they're domesticated fish that you're catching.
- [03:15]
Phil Robertson
That's true, but they are in water and it is outside, and I am sneaking over there. And if you have a three year old, it's better because I don't need a boat. I mean, all I need is a bridge. Which is. Now we're getting into basic Redneck 101, I think we actually did a episode on the Duck show about that.
- [03:39]
Jase Robertson
And Jason will make the point that even though there is the middleman, who is our brother and his people, Stone and others, they're still made by the Almighty and there's. And you still got to catch them, so.
- [03:53]
Phil Robertson
Exactly. It's not easy. Because it's not easy. Has come up with this narrative that I've caught all his fish that I've told you about several, several times. And every time I catch one, I'm like, hey, Willie, here's another. In the fishing world, there is a narrative about that. I mean, Phil used to have a neighbor that he was just. All the time. I mean, the man fished almost every day, but every time you saw him, he's like, can't catch them. Which he had some. He's like, too many people out here. I mean, they're. Al. You remember how many people that were down there?
- [04:31]
Jase Robertson
Not many.
- [04:32]
Phil Robertson
Not many. But he just didn't like the idea of other people fishing where he was living. He just didn't. He was like, this is my section of the land and water.
- [04:44]
Jase Robertson
You know, even though these were public waters. And look, he had such a phobia about it. He wouldn't let his wife order fish at restaurants because he was afraid if somebody saw her ordering fish, they would assume he wasn't catching enough for her to eat at home.
- [05:02]
Zach Dasher
He wasn't a provider.
- [05:03]
Jase Robertson
He wasn't a fish provider. So this mindset. Yeah, he said it.
- [05:08]
Phil Robertson
I heard him say it. I was thinking.
- [05:12]
Zach Dasher
Man, well, I'll tell you. Let me tell you this where you guys live, particularly where Phil lives and where the, the hoop nets are and the boat ramp. The level of catfish that has been pulled out of that river is incredible. And the quality, not just the quantity, but the quality of the catfish. I went yesterday night, lunch here at a little restaurant and in the mountains. And I will tell you, as much as I love it here, don't ever order catfish in the mountains. I mean, it was, I mean, I'm looking at this guy eat it and he was like, man, this is delicious. I'm like, that's not catfish.
- [05:46]
Phil Robertson
Not as good. That's the three words you need to know. That's like when we'll go to a restaurant once a year or twice and like Missy will order fish. Now, I don't do like my dad's neighbor, but I'm like, you realize that's not gonna be as good as what you usually eat. She's like, well, I want some fish. I'll just say, remember those three words, not as good. She gives the fish, she eats it. And I say, what about it? She went, wasn't as good as I thought.
- [06:17]
Zach Dasher
It's the little things you don't think about. Like the catfish. If it's the opalous cat, we've talked about that. It's much better on a hamburger. You want the imitation cheese. It's just all the things that, you know, things that make it.
- [06:29]
Phil Robertson
No, you know too much. I don't know if this is a word, but I actually used it yesterday. You've been too yuppie fied for some things. But so let me tell you the story. So we go out there and you know, the attention span of a 3 year old is not very long. And it wasn't dark, so the fish really weren't biting. And he was like ready to go. But then I kind of realized, I think he's hungry. And because it was about suppertime, but finally when he was like, let's go, I'm all done. I caught a bass. And so then, oh boy, the excitement jumping around, you know, and I, I let him throw him back. I get him some gloves, you know, and because I'm like, I like, I wish I could have called a crappie because I would have cooked it and just showed him the cycle. But we did a little catch and release, so he got the gloves through it back. So we go home, Missy has a nice little supper, we eat supper. Soon as he got gets done, and now it's right before dark. He's like, J Rock, let's go fishing again. I was like, oh, the boy has been bitten by the bug, you know. So we tore off back over there, do the same thing, not catching anything. And then all of a sudden I had a little cork with a little jig. And it just, the way it went down, I thought, oh, yeah, that's a big one. I set the hook. I was gonna give him the rod, but when it started pulling drag, I said, no, let me. He's like, I want to do it. I was like, cheer me on, buddy. And it was about, I would say, two and a quarter pound crappie. I mean, a monster. And that dude started hollering. And when I got him over the bridge, he started flopping. Of course he was trying to grab him, you know. And I was like, hey, whoa, they do have fins, you know. The excitement levels off the charts. So then I thought, this is the moment, I'm gonna pull him in. So we get the crappie, take him home, and we snuck up to the window and scared, what he calls Missy Lulu. Like, she was, you know, watching TV on the couch, but there's a window right there. So we snuck up there, which is exciting for a three year old, you know, and then all of a sudden, he banged on the window.
- [08:52]
Jase Robertson
It sounds like it's exciting for a 55 year old too.
- [08:55]
Phil Robertson
Oh, I was having the time of my life and I like had the crappie behind my back. So she went from scared out of her wits to when I pulled that up, she was like cheering. Which he was like, why is she cheering? She, she met. She missed the show. He was looking kind of dumbfounded. So then I was, I said, well, let me go clean him. I said, we're going to eat this fish, you know. And he's like, what? Missy was like, go watch him. And so he did, which was an interesting conversation. He's like, jay, Rock, why are you giving that fish a bobo? And you know, it's pretty graphic, I guess. He's three years old. I didn't realize it, but, you know, I was like, he may be okay. You know, we're just going to take the part that we can eat and throw him back. And he was like, okay. So I cleaned the fish. We went and threw him in the. In my pond, you know, was left. So I think in his mind he thought, man, that's a tough fish. And so then we moved in the kitchen. I did the whole thing. I mean, this is immediate. I battered that crappie, which was huge. I mean, was it enough? Because we had already Eaten supper, but Missy and I was like, this will be a good little dessert, you know, And I cooked the fish. And what was funny is he did. He wouldn't eat it. He was like, no. I was like, babe, it starts in the process. And later. But he got at least to see the process. And Missy ate. Missy ate one side and I ate the other. And we were. I thought it was a good experience. You're basically, you know, I'm passing down. This is what we do. This is called survival if things go south.
- [10:46]
Jase Robertson
So do you think he didn't eat it because he watched the process or it's just because, like a lot of little kids, he wasn't sure about.
- [10:53]
Phil Robertson
I think it was too soon, too quick. It was all bewildering, you know. And he's like, yeah, now, of course, as soon as we ate the last bite, you know what he said? I want some. I said, it's a little late, buddy. He said, let's go fishing again. He wanted to do the whole process again. Nope. It's bedtime, buddy. So there you go. That's by passing it on to the next generation. You know, there's a lot of historical documentation outside of the Bible, where all these disciples of Jesus chose to be killed for their faith rather than deny Jesus as the son of God. And it really impacted me because I thought, wait a minute, if this was all a hoax, who would die for a lie, knowing it was a lie? And that was my initial fascination of it, which is which I found really encouraging and inspiring.
- [11:52]
Jase Robertson
Our good friend Todd Nettleton, who is the voice of the Mars Radio host, has written a new book. It's called when faith is forbidden. 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. And that book, which is free, by the way, is about his travels into restricted nations for about 20 years. And he's meeting these courageous Christians who are still out there being persecuted because of their commitment to Christ. And each stop on his journey is going to challenge not only you to be able to reflect on, you know, your own walk, but also it helps you really pray and remember these guys that are currently being persecuted. And the voice of the martyrs has always done a fantastic job of pointing that out. Request your free copy of When Faith Is forbidden by calling 844-463-4-059. That's 844-463-4059 or visit vom.orgunashamed. that's vom.orgunashamed. i like it because you. Because that's something you have to teach I mean, you're not just going to get that it takes effort. It, I mean, it takes a lot to be able to do that. And you're right, I thought about it in relationship to how few of people fish. Like where we grew up, we were talking about the whole story about our neighbor and people fishing down there. But you know, we had a boat dock, so we had a access for people right there. But how many people actually fished either for, you know, commercial fish or just game fish? I mean, you just don't see many boats down there fishing. When I'm out there, I never see anybody fishing.
- [13:33]
Phil Robertson
And I actually turned it in the spiritual principal. When we were riding back on the golf cart, he was like, what? Because he couldn't figure out why we didn't throw him back. And I was like, no, this is a gift from God. I was like. And you remember when we did the sacrifice bit, I think was it on maybe podcast before last, but that Leviticus 17 where it's a gift of God? I was like, no, he's, he's given us this, this gift. And so then I kind of went on, you know, God made all the creatures and he made us and we get to, we get to be in control of the whole animal world. And so then I was like, and me and you, we're gifts from God, you know. And so I think it went well.
- [14:20]
Jase Robertson
It played such a big role in, you know, the biblical narrative because four of the 12 were fishermen and which is, I mean, could just be accidental, you know, that that's what they happen to do. But I've always thought it was something about that faith based approach to fishing. I mean, it really is. I remember Jason, we were young, very young us praying for fish because like that equal money, which equaled business, you know, making it and bills being paid and banks being paid off. So it was a faith based, you know, opportunity, which is why I think dad chose it. I mean he, he was now a man of faith. And it was like, man, we're, we're praying about this. But I mean, to me it does seem, you know, at the very least very coincidental that four of the 12 original disciples were fishermen before they walked away from their net. So I do think it played a factor.
- [15:18]
Phil Robertson
Well in his famous line that I'll make you fishers of men would become profound, which is exactly what happened. I mean, it all started catching fish, you know, so I mean, that's, you're trying to duplicate that process, especially to the next generation. I mean, trust me, we'll make that segue at some point in his upbringing.
- [15:39]
Jase Robertson
Oh, yeah.
- [15:39]
Zach Dasher
A lot of things are happening in the water in the Gospel of John, including catching.
- [15:44]
Jase Robertson
Well, and not only that, you know, Dallas Jenkins has kind of picked up on it. But traditionally, I mean, the fish was known as, like, the symbol for Christianity way before the cross was. Which was still, you know, I mean, that was just a method of execution that. That came along later that we recognize the cross as a symbol of Christianity, but in the early days, supposedly. I mean, it doesn't say the Bible, but the fish, you know, was the. Was the thing. If you drew a fish, that meant you were a believer, you know, so.
- [16:14]
Phil Robertson
Well, and even when he gives the parable about, you know, it's like the kingdom of God is like, you know, God catching fish, and you separate the. The good fish from the coal fish, you know?
- [16:25]
Zach Dasher
Right, yeah.
- [16:25]
Phil Robertson
Which is what we did twice a week in hoop nets and every day with the Dremel nets.
- [16:31]
Jase Robertson
I mean, in our case, it was more not as much about what you could eat, but what you could sell, you know, which was a big part of that.
- [16:39]
Phil Robertson
Exactly.
- [16:40]
Jase Robertson
So. So we're in John 7, and we are at a water point to. To your point, Zach, where we left off. And we've discussed this a few times as we kind of jumped ahead to it, but when we. When we got there, I think, Jase, you're right. The last time we were in this text, we were. We went back to that Leviticus, and then you took us into Hebrews, showing that idea about sacrifice. Right. And about who Jesus is.
- [17:09]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. Because he asked that question, why are you trying to kill me? Yeah. And, you know, it's. It's. It's all a narrative that you see constantly. How you view Jesus is going to be the greatest decision as far as your behavior and your lifestyle and your purpose. I mean, this whole section. Well, really, the whole Gospel of John is. He's basically sometimes a courtroom setting, you feel like, but sometimes just out with the people. Is who. Who do you think Jesus is?
- [17:45]
Jase Robertson
Exactly. And just if you're keeping score at home, I do have a running list of kind of the. I would call them the arch questions that are. That we've read so far. I think this. We're up to seven. What do you seek? John 1:38. Why do you involve me? John 2. Four, speaking to his mom, Will you give me a drink? John 4:7. Do you want to get well? John 5, 6. And that was the guy that he references back in the text. We're in John 7, where shall we buy bread for the people to eat? John 6:5. And that of course was to one of the disciples. And then he, he addressed all the disciples and said, do you want to leave too? You do not want to leave too, do you? That's John 6:67. And then this one, which is actually kind of a two part question. Jays, has not Moses given you the law yet none of you has been able to keep the law? Why are you trying to kill me? Which is John 7, 19. So if you're keeping score, that's the sort of arch questions that we've been talking about in the book so far.
- [18:48]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. So I think we left off. Where did we leave off? 35.
- [18:51]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, at 35. Do you want me to read it?
- [18:55]
Zach Dasher
Yeah, once you read it.
- [18:56]
Jase Robertson
All right. So he says, we're going off. The last statement, he said, which is, I am with you for only a short time. And then I go to the one who sent me. This is in 33. You will look for me, but you will not find me. And where I am, you cannot come. Of course we know he's talking about the Ascension. And then verse 35, the Jews said to one another, where does this man intend to go that we cannot find him? Will he go where our people live scattered among the Greeks and teach the Greeks? Which is interesting because that's exactly what was going to happen. But that's not what he was talking about. But it, but it would happen. What did he mean when he said, you will look for me, but you will not find me where I am. You cannot come. So that's kind of the pondering.
- [19:46]
Phil Robertson
Well, and I think if you tie that in with what he had just discussed about why are you trying to kill me? They were like, you're demon possessed, you know who's trying to kill you. And then you know, a few moments later he's talking about, well, there's a place I can go or will go that you won't find me. Because that's the deal. It's like, well, even if we did want to kill you, now you have some secret spot that you can go hide that no one could get to you.
- [20:16]
Jase Robertson
Exactly.
- [20:16]
Phil Robertson
Which the answer would have been absolutely.
- [20:19]
Jase Robertson
But so and so this is kind of. Remember we said this was like an eight day feast. He waited a few days before he started then. So he started in about midweek. And now in verse 37, we kind of, John moves us to the last and greatest day of the feast. So now we're the one where we're at the end of the feast. And so Jesus stood and says in a loud voice, if anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink whoever believes in me, as the Scriptures has said, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him. And then we get John, of course, giving us the commentary on what he meant by this. He meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Because remember, he's writing this after all this has happened. Up to that time, the Spirit had not been given since Jesus had not yet been glorified. So that's kind of the commentary of what he meant. And we've referenced this a few times. On hearing his words, some of the people said, surely this man is the prophet. So I'm assuming they are talking about lead into the Messiah, which of course, John the Baptist had already been there, but that's what they said. Then others said, no, oh, he is the Christ or the Messiah. Still others asked, how can the Christ, the Messiah, come from Galilee? Does not the scripture say that the Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived? Thus the people were divided because of Jesus. Some wanted to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him. So you're kind of in that mid zone now where they're contemplating the possibilities. But still a lot of people just can't quite buy it. And so here's the last little section which is interesting in verse 45. Finally, the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees who asked them, why didn't you bring him in? Because remember, they were sent to arrest him. That was back in 32. And so they came back and they said, well, where is he? No one ever spoke the way this man does, the guards declared, which I find comical, because what defense is that for not getting your man? You mean he has deceived you? Also, the Pharisees retorted, has any of the rulers. Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him? No. But this mob that knows nothing of the law, there's a curse on them. That's pretty harsh. Nicodemus. Who is one of them, by the way, in verse 50, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number? This is a Pharisee asked, does our law condemn anyone without first hearing him to find out what he is doing? Just a little. Oh, by the way, question, verse 52, they replied, are you from Galilee to look into it? And you will find that a prophet does not come out of Galilee or the Prophet.
- [23:35]
Zach Dasher
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- [27:37]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. I mean, I think we read last time when we skipped ahead. Where was that? Ezekiel 46 or 47. Ezekiel.
- [27:46]
Zach Dasher
Yeah, we did read Ezekiel 47, but.
- [27:48]
Phil Robertson
There'S a few more seven. Yeah, we'll have at it.
- [27:52]
Zach Dasher
Yeah, the. The one. So I got four. And we. We can lead up to them, but the first one, that. And there's others besides this, I think. But the Isaiah 58, 11 says, and the Lord will guide you continually and satisfy your desire in scorched places and make your bones strong. And you shall be like a watered garden. I mean, what image pops up in your mind when you hear that? Like a watered garden. I immediately think of the garden. In Genesis chapter one.
- [28:22]
Phil Robertson
Right.
- [28:23]
Zach Dasher
In Genesis chapter two, you'll be like a Water garden, like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. So if you take yourself and transport your yourself back to the garden before the fall of man. Genesis 2 says that there was a river that actually came out of the. Out of the garden or out of Eden, and it watered the garden. So that's the prophetic picture there in Isaiah.
- [28:47]
Phil Robertson
No, I agree. Well, Even in the 47 that we read, I don't know if I read the end, but I actually didn't plan on this. But I told my little fishing story. But when in 47, at about midway through there, it says that it would flow, which it was flowing out of the temple. Well, where does that send you back to? Even the garden had the temple type structure where kind of heaven and earth are meeting God and dwelling with humans. And at the end of verse 6 and 47 of Ezekiel, it said, then he led me back to the bank of the river, and there was trees along the side. And then verse talks about at the end of verse 8, when it empties into the Dead Sea, the water becomes fresh and swarms of living creatures will live. Wherever the river flows, there will be large numbers of fish because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh. So where the river flows, everything will live. Fishermen will stand on the soar. The fish will be of many kinds, like the fish of the great sea. But the swamps and marshes will not become fresh. They will be left for salt. And then he goes, talks about the fruit trees again. But it's all symbolic of what is happening here in John 7 about when he says, by this, he meant the Spirit verse. What is that, 39? My glasses are fogged up because it's 85 outside and it's 55 in here. I wish y' all could see Maddie. She looks like she's fixed to go to Antarctica. So I don't know. I'll have to get with Willie on. What? What. What's happening?
- [30:39]
Jase Robertson
I noticed it was when I was in there earlier this week. It was with our guest. It was really cold. I don't usually get cold. I run hot.
- [30:47]
Phil Robertson
When I first sat down, I started blowing in the air, like, seeing if I could blow smoke. But. But I think that.
- [30:56]
Jase Robertson
Oh, you can blow smoke, dad.
- [30:57]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. I think that is so powerful because it. It adds to that wind and fire and flood and trees. I feel like it's like if you're kind of, you know, not this. Hey, fire from heaven's coming. You know, we have the Holy Spirit because we know what happens in Acts 2. I mean, literal fire came down. When this Spirit, when he says the Spirit that they would later receive. Well, that's fixing to happen. I mean, Jesus is at this point in his early 30s, and he's fixed to die and be buried and raised. And then when he's raised, you remember Acts 1. He gave many convincing proofs that he was alive for 40 days. And I'd like to kind of tap into that, because then when it pours out, then this narrative kind of changes. And I don't know who said this the first time, but it just popped into my brain. But when you look at God the Father, you see that he's for us, or he wouldn't have had this whole plan orchestrated. Well, then you see Jesus, who's now with us as a person. And then think about that. What I call the 8th I am. When he said, go into all nations, making disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And he said, and surely I am with you always. So you have Jesus with us. Well, now he's introducing. We see the first hints of the Holy Spirit's role. So you got God is for us, Jesus with us. And now you have the Holy Spirit in us, which it's poured out why? So then they could receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And I think when you look at it like that and how their roles are in that happening, that's why Jesus so many times is saying, I'm not here to glorify myself. I'm here to honor my Father. Well, then the Holy Spirit is going to be like, well, I'm here to teach you about Jesus. And then here we receive God's Spirit, and then we're. And he says that in Acts 1. And we could actually read that if we want to.
- [33:17]
Jase Robertson
But I want to read you one text, because, man, it backs up exactly what you said. Because it's not just the Old Testament scripture, but also even what was written after John. Listen to this. In Titus 3, to what Jay's just said, when the kindness and love of God our Savior, appeared, he saved us not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs, having the hope of eternal life. And so I love in that picture that he pays to Titus is the Godhead all working together. But you see, in that same water analogy that Zach was talking about from the Old Testament, all the way forward and still to today of this pouring out of Jesus to us and now out of us into the lives of other people. I mean, it's a beautiful symmetry when you think about it. So, Jase, you know, there's an old saying, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but I don't think that's true. Do you think that's true?
- [34:33]
Phil Robertson
I don't think it's true either. It takes a lot of patience and discipline. But it can be done.
- [34:38]
Jase Robertson
It can be done. I'm 60 years old and this old dog has learned a new trick. I was unhealthy and needed to lose some weight. And the number one thing I hear now from people usually that come on the podcast is, where's the rest of Al? Because a big part of him is gone. I've lost a lot of weight using PhD weight loss. Our good friend Dr. Ashley Lucas, who's been on the podcast before, she is the founder of PhD Weight Loss. She's a registered dietitian. She also has a PhD in sports, nutrition and chronic disease. The program teaches you what to eat, when to eat. It works on your relationship with food, and most importantly, it shows you how to lose weight for the rest of your life. If you're watching this on YouTube, here's a picture of me and all of my glory before I started this journey. And here's a picture of me now. And you see now after 17 weeks that I've lost over £50 and feel great. The best thing about it, there's no gimmicks, there's no pills, there's no shots, there's no side effects. And there's a lot of stuff out there now that has all of that PhD does not. And you're also not eating rabbit food. It's good food. You're not hungry, which I really love. PhD weight loss also supplies up to 80% of your weekly foods at no extra cost. It's worked well for me. It can work for you. Join me on the weight loss journey. Schedule your one on one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900 or you can visit myphdweightloss.com that's 864-644-1900. Tell them that Al sent you.
- [36:23]
Zach Dasher
Well, the picture you should have in your mind of what God is accomplishing is restoring us back to Eden. And so when you read the Ezekiel 47 passage, think about the Dead Sea. It's like a great metaphor for what we're saying here. Which is in the passage, the Dead Sea. The reason why it was called the Dead Sea was because it was the Dead Sea, like, it was so salty that life, you know, it's like this is not like it's little on the nose, right? But the idea of it is that, is that living water is flowing into a dead sea and creating life in everything that touches. So if you think about it as Jesus as the top of the diagram, Jesus, the true temple, and then flowing into, like Jesus is the source. And then the living water comes out of Jesus, so he's like the spring. The living water is coming out of Jesus. And Ezekiel's vision was that the river flowed from the temple. So in our eschatology, Jesus is the temple. Jesus is the cornerstone of the temple. That's the whole thing. So when you read Ezekiel 47, the picture that we should be thinking about is not some physical temple, brick and mortar, but it's Jesus himself as a cornerstone of the temple, and then us, too, as living stones of that temple. So then John 7:38, that out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. Then that goes into the Dead Sea, which is the, the symbolism for a desolation and death. It's. It's the transformation into a place of life. I mean, that's really what's being accomplished through the, the way that happens. Is that the Holy Spirit. Well, how do. How. How in the world am I going to be the source of any life? Well, because you're connected with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. And when you were raised to live, when you were raised with him, you were raised to live life according to the Apostle Paul, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts chapter two. And now the woman at the well, the spring will be in me, a well welling up to eternal life. So the reason why life flows out of me as a living stone built on the cornerstone is because I have the spring in me, because Christ lives in me through the Holy Spirit. That's the picture. And that's a picture of incredible power, by the way.
- [38:58]
Jase Robertson
Well, and we've. We said it before and read it, but Revelation 22, you know, paints that same exact picture, Zach. And while most people are looking forward to that in the future, we're saying, what. What if we're already flowing? What. What if the flow is happening? And even Jason's picture of the jewels, you know, everybody says, oh, man, and this can be great. We're living in this be jeweled place. And with the better picture is we are the jewels. And when that light, that pure light of Christ shines is what makes us special and what makes us beautiful. So that all starts in real time and goes forward into eternity.
- [39:33]
Zach Dasher
I just say this. Jeremiah's words are also helpful here when you think about our responsibility and how we. How we basically move on. This Jeremiah, the prophet says, my people have committed two evils. They have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters. There's that water again. And they've hewed out cisterns for themselves, broken cisterns that can hold no water. And I love that picture because that's what Jesus kind of gets into about wineskins. So our problem is not just that, according to the prophet Jeremiah, it's not just that we are rejecting living water. We're also creating containers that will not hold his living water. We're trying to contain the spirit of God in a way that would never be able to contain him. It's the Exodus story of rain, bread coming down, and we're going to somehow contain that. And it's like you're not going to contain manna falling from the sky. But that's the sin of the people. That's always our default is to want to either just reject the living water, and then by doing so, we also try to create broken cisterns that can't even hold the water. So when we come to Christ, or rather when Christ come to us, our response is not give me the living water, because that's not enough. Our response is, I need a new wineskin that will hold the living water. I need more than that. I'm the Dead Sea. Like there's no life here. I need a whole new container. I need. I need everything. It's all it. I need to be totally reformed.
- [41:06]
Jase Robertson
Where was that passage at in Jeremiah, Zach, where was that?
- [41:09]
Zach Dasher
Jeremiah 2:13.
- [41:11]
Jase Robertson
2:13.
- [41:12]
Phil Robertson
Well, did you know? Jace, clever fact. Time feel like we need music for that. Jace, clever fact. The Dead Sea, you know, one of the qualities that makes it the Dead Sea, it has zero outflow.
- [41:29]
Jase Robertson
Yes.
- [41:31]
Phil Robertson
I mean, I think that kind of goes in with this.
- [41:34]
Zach Dasher
I love that.
- [41:35]
Phil Robertson
Now, here's what I'm trying to figure out. How did the guy who wrote Ezekiel know that this. That Jesus would later say, this streams of living water will flow from within him, and it would be out because it's an outflow, because once it's poured out, then people receive it and then it flows out again to the whole world to show that there is a God and he's alive. And the illustration they're using is the Dead Sea. But when I'm just reading this because I wasn't sure if it was the only one, it's not the only one that's like that because even the Salt Lake in Utah, you know, has similar qualities to this. But what I was just reading about this. The Dead Sea is a salt lake situated in the Jordan Rift Valley. It receives water primarily from the Jordan river, but the water does not drain out. And due to the high rate of evaporation in the region, coupled with the fact that there's no outflow, causes the water level to drop and the water to become extremely salty. So it's kind of the, when you look at that on what this means to us, if you're self absorbed and you're always looking in and not out, this is what happened. Now we're on the trail to idolatry and sinful behavior, so I think it's pretty cool. Another thing I thought is even when the garden was being watered before it had rained, which is a fascinating fact, you know, when the flood came, well, it hadn't even rained yet, but that he was watering from it bubbling up. And you have in the Spirit, when you go to the new creation of that water bubbling up and wanting to launch. And then God provides the way through Jesus. Jesus provides the Spirit, pours it out. Because in Acts 2, when it's poured out, it says, Luke records there, Jesus at the right hand of God has poured out what you now see and hear. And of course, then he, you know, he shares Jesus. And they get to the point where they're cut to the heart and say, what do we do? And he's like, well, repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus, for the forgiveness of your sins. And then there's a key little phrase that says, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And so when people in the religious world argue about all that, well, what does that exactly mean? What is the difference in it being poured out and receiving it? I think a good verse to go to is this first John 4, where it says, this is love. This is verse 10. Not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Thank gift of God. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another. Now here's a key phrase to give you a hint about how the Spirit works. God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. Verse 13. This is where I wanted to get 1 John 4. We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us his holy spirit. So that's why I said God's for us. He's with us and he's in us.
- [45:25]
Zach Dasher
So there's a lot of talk right now about government debt, but after four years of some massive inflation, the real crisis is actually probably personal debt. Al, you've kind of experienced this in your own life, right?
- [45:37]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. And you know, just because you're struggling with debt doesn't mean you're a terrible person. I mean, a lot of times there's unforeseen things that happen. In my case, I had low income, but I also had a baby that was born that was premature, had huge hospital bills and it just, it piled up on us and it led us into bankruptcy. And I just wish I had known more during this time in my life. And I wish I'd had our good partners with us back then.
- [46:02]
Zach Dasher
Yeah. And if this sounds familiar and if you just feel like you're drowning in credit card debt and overdue bills, you just can't quite make get above water, I want to tell you about our friends at Done With Debt. Done With Debt has unique and brilliant escape strategies to help end your debt fast so that you can keep more of your hard earned money. Done With Debt doesn't try to sell you a loan or bankruptcy or anything like that. They're tough negotiators. Go one on one with your credit card companies and your loan companies with one goal, to drastically reduce your bills, eliminate interest and erase penalties. Most clients end up with more money in their pocket month one, and they don't stop until you break free from debt permanently. Look, take a few minutes and visit donewithdebt.com talk with one of their strategists. It's free, but listen up. Some of their solutions are time sensitive, so you'll have to move quickly. Go to donewithdebt.com that's donewithdebt.com I wanted to sit in what you said for a second. The picture of the Dead Sea. If you saw this on a map, the Dead Sea is at the bottom. And you know what river flows into the Dead Sea? The Jordan River.
- [47:13]
Phil Robertson
Yeah.
- [47:13]
Zach Dasher
So you think, what is the significance of the Jordan river flowing into the Dead Sea? You got to think about this for a second. This is when you said that, I thought, man, there's more there.
- [47:21]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, I agree.
- [47:22]
Phil Robertson
That's why I went back to it. I'm like, how did they know that this was written thousands of years ago?
- [47:27]
Zach Dasher
Yeah, yeah. Nothing's getting out of the Dead Sea. So the way the Dead Sea set up is the Jordan river flows into the Dead Sea. So then go back to the Old Testament again, you think about what happened to the Jordan River. Well, the Jordan river marks as like a, it's kind of like a boundary line of where during the exodus of Israel from Egypt, when they were looking for the Promised Land, the boundary to the Promised Land was the Jordan River. So when Joshua takes them into the Promised Land, because remember, Moses got mad, by the way, that's a whole other thing too. We could talk about struck the rock and what came out water, the rock. But, but, so, so, but so Joshua takes them through the boundary. So if you think about like the new Exodus language, Joshua is taking them out of slavery into the Promised Land. And you say, what did they have to go through to shed the shackles of slavery? Which is, that's symbolic of our sin. Right. They had to go through the Jordan River. So the image here is that as God's people pass through the Jordan river, their shackles, very similar to the splitting and the parting of the Red Sea. Their enemies, their shackles, their sins, the things that hold them in bondage are being released into the river. And then those things, those sins, they're washed away. As the Leon Bridges song says, my sins flow down the Jordan River. They flow down the Jordan River. Where do they end up? Up in the Dead Sea. Then you also have another story in the Old Testament of who was it, that was it Naaman who had leprosy? And, and they, and, and he, and he, he was told by one of the prophets was, and I'm having a Elijah, Elisha said, go dip yourself into the Jordan river seven times. So now you have all that leprosy, all that, that, that disease, all that just nastiness, that sin, leprosy, disease, pain, death, slavery, bondage, shackles, all of it is washed away in the Jordan River. That's the picture of the Jordan River. And where does it all go? It goes into the Dead Sea. So the picture of what Christ is going to accomplish with the Holy Spirit living in believers is going to be that the Dead Sea, the cesspool of sin that the human body is now post fall, the cesspool of brokenness, disease and sin, which is our human body will now be infused with life. As this whole vision is being made new by living water that has the power to fill up the Dead Sea and overtake it. You Think, well, what happens when it runs out of room? Well, it will run out of room. It'll be a spring in you welling up to eternal life. It'll start overflowing the banks, and it will start infecting everything, and it will take over the entire globe. That's the. That's the picture of the kingdom of God coming with Jesus and being fulfilled in Jesus at the second Coming.
- [50:28]
Phil Robertson
Exactly. So then I think when you fast Forward to Acts 1, where he says, now granted, he had had this experience in John 20, when he breathed on them, he breathed the Holy Spirit. And I don't know if that was, you know, what Luke had in mind when he's writing Acts. So we know that this Holy Spirit is. Now that Jesus has been raised, he gives instructions about it. You have that little moment at the end of John. What do you think of when it's like Jesus breathed on him? Well, now you're going back to when creation started.
- [51:10]
Jase Robertson
The breath of life.
- [51:11]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. When God breathed into man, he made him from the dust of the earth, and he breathe life in him. So it's this picture of creation and new creation. And so then it says in Acts 1, he gave many convincing proofs that he was alive, but it says he gave them instructions through the Holy Spirit. That's in verse two. And then he says in verse four, do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my father promised, which you have heard me speak about. Well, now we're going back to the beginnings of what we read in John in verse 5 of Acts 1, because he says, for John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
- [51:58]
Zach Dasher
Yeah.
- [51:59]
Phil Robertson
So now this John 7 passage is coming to light here, because back when we read that in John 3, we were like, now what exactly does he mean by that? But now he's like the Spirit you're later to receive. Yeah.
- [52:12]
Zach Dasher
When he's talking about somebody else is going to come after me. When John baptized with water, where did he baptize?
- [52:19]
Phil Robertson
At the Jordan River.
- [52:20]
Jase Robertson
Jordan River.
- [52:21]
Zach Dasher
And where did it flow into the Dead Sea? I mean, his thing is like, this thing is like, there's a lot of threads that are very.
- [52:29]
Phil Robertson
I think this is called connecting the dots.
- [52:32]
Zach Dasher
Yeah.
- [52:33]
Phil Robertson
So look, so then they met together and they said, well, Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel? And we've talked about that before. You know, whether. Whether they were just now getting it or whether they were thinking, well, where's the, you know, where's the swords and how Are we going to take on Rome? Which could, you know, it could be that some of that also. But then he says this in verse 7 of Acts 1, it is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you. And I love this verse because everybody's fascinated by the power, you know, give me power. And they were, I think, speaking in the context of, we have the power now, since you can't die, to whoop wrong. But he had another power in mind, which is this flood, this living water, this fire from heaven. And he says, and you will be my witnesses. So he basically tells them what to do with the power. And then when you read the whole book of Acts, you see it starts in two. When the Spirit's poured out, and then they get up and what do they do? They witness to Jesus Christ.
- [53:56]
Jase Robertson
And not only that, I think they were. The reason that they were asking about restoration of kingdom is because they had no idea he was fixing to literally fly away and go back to the right hand of the Father. And when that happened, and then the Holy Spirit was in, power was poured out on them, on those tongues of fire. Then he real. They realized then, okay, this is us. We're now the next. As Zach was describing, we're now the next layer of foundation on top of that cornerstone.
- [54:29]
Zach Dasher
And that's what I love about the way that Paul presents it in Ephesians, is that there's a cornerstone to that temple. Jesus, we're living stones, but the language is it's a progressive kingdom that is growing into a temple. I love that.
- [54:46]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. And that's the picture we see. And that's the one they laid out. And oh, by the way, he was at the temple when he's talking about these very things in the last day of this feast. So we'll pick it up here a little bit more to mine some more gold in this John 7, which leads us into an amazing picture in John 8 of forgiveness and a willingness to be able to share that with other people. So we'll catch you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode out.