EP 1090 | Jase Baffled by Emojis, Turns to Gen Z for Help & Can Our Digital Selves Be Demonic?

Summary

Podcast Summary: EP 1090 | Jase Baffled by Emojis, Turns to Gen Z for Help & Can Our Digital Selves Be Demonic?

Unashamed with the Robertson Family, hosted by Tread Lively, dives deep into the intersection of faith, family, and modern-day challenges in Episode 1090. In this episode, released on May 12, 2025, the Robertson family—Phil, Al, Jase, Zach—and their special guests engage in heartfelt discussions about marriage dynamics, the perplexing world of digital communication, and the spiritual implications of our online personas. Below is a detailed summary capturing the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Navigating Marriage Dynamics and Counseling

The episode opens with Al Robertson welcoming listeners back to Unashamed, highlighting their ongoing journey through marriage counseling. The conversation between Al, Willie, and Zach delves into the common challenges couples face, especially in the early years of marriage.

• Early Marriage Conflicts: Zach shares, “Every couple that gets married, there is a period of wilderness where you're jockeying for position” (03:10). This reflects the initial struggles couples encounter as they establish their roles and dynamics.

• Unique Relationship Dynamics: Willie emphasizes that every relationship is unique, stating, “We had a very passionate one way or the other... but not everybody has that dynamic” (02:38). He points out that while some couples experience volatile relationships akin to the stock market, others maintain a more stable connection.

• Role of Strong Partners: Al appreciates the strong, godly women in their lives, saying, “Both Jill and Missy are strong women who don’t have any qualms in taking both of you on” (07:00). He underscores the importance of having supportive partners who challenge and strengthen the relationship.

2. The Complexity of Digital Communication: Emojis and Beyond

Zach Robertson brings up a relatable modern dilemma—understanding and effectively using emojis in communication, especially within a marriage.

• Misinterpretation of Emojis: Zach recounts a scenario where his wife, Maddie, used a laughing-crying emoji in response to his haircut. He admits, “I thought it might have been a valor or... It wasn't a valor...” (15:10). The confusion over emoji meanings highlights generational gaps in digital language.

• Digital Selves and Spiritual Implications: The discussion pivots to whether our online personas can be influenced by demonic forces. Zach muses, “I would say that could be demonic” when referring to avatars and the disconnect they may create between one’s true self and online representation (06:17).

• Generational Communication Gaps: Al reflects on the rapid evolution of communication mediums, stating, “Every time you get a new venue to communicate, you're going to have to learn a whole new language” (18:45). This underscores the challenges older generations face in adapting to Gen Z’s digital lexicon.

3. Spiritual Insights: Ephesians and Acts 17 Illustration

Zach presents a thought-provoking illustration linking the themes of Ephesians and Acts 17 to emphasize the unity of heaven and earth under Christ.

• Ephesians Overview: Zach explains his interpretation of Ephesians 1:10, highlighting God’s plan to unite all things in Christ. He states, “Everything through time was leading to this one declaration to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ” (25:47).

• Acts 17 Connection: Drawing from Acts 17:23, where Paul addresses the Athenians about the “unknown God,” Zach connects this to the overarching biblical narrative of uniting all nations under Christ’s lordship, bridging the Old and New Testaments.

• Illustration at Camp Chiocca: Zach shares his experience speaking at Camp Chiocca, where he posed three questions to the audience:

  1. Where are you from? – Responses were purely geographical, missing the spiritual origin.
  2. What do you do for a living? – Responses ranged widely, representing diverse worldly occupations.
  3. Where are you headed? – Overwhelmingly, the audience answered “heaven.”

  This exercise aimed to demonstrate the disconnect between worldly identities and spiritual truths, reinforcing the message from Ephesians about our true origin and destination in Christ.

4. Truth, Spiritual Warfare, and the Digital Age

The conversation delves into the concept of truth as an unwavering force amidst evolving communication methods, and its relevance in spiritual warfare.

• Unchanging Nature of Truth: Al remarks, “Truth is still truth spread across whatever different way we find it communicated” (19:23). This reinforces the idea that divine truth remains constant despite changes in how it is conveyed.

• Spiritual Warfare in the Digital Realm: Zach reflects on the challenges faced by Jesus in communicating His message in a language foreign to his listeners, drawing parallels to modern believers navigating digital communication. He notes, “Jesus is encountering such opposition because he's just speaking in a language which was their language” (18:13).

• Manifestation of Truth Online: Al and Zach discuss the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding believers to adapt and communicate effectively in the digital age, ensuring that the essence of their faith remains intact regardless of the medium.

5. Practical Applications and Takeaways

The episode concludes with actionable insights and affirmations for listeners to apply in their own lives.

• Embracing Digital Communication with Faith: The Robertson family encourages embracing digital tools while staying rooted in faith, ensuring that online interactions reflect Christian values.

• Unity Under Christ: Reinforcing the central theme, they emphasize the importance of recognizing and living out the unity between heaven and earth as outlined in Ephesians, ultimately aiming to reflect Christ’s image in all aspects of life.

• Continuous Growth in Marriage and Faith: The discussions on marriage counseling and spiritual insights serve as reminders to continually nurture both personal relationships and one’s faith journey.

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Notable Quotes:

• Zach Dasher (03:10): “Every couple that gets married, there is a period of wilderness where you're jockeying for position.”

• Willie Robertson (02:38): “We had a very passionate one way or the other... but not everybody has that dynamic.”

• Zach Dasher (15:10): “I thought it might have been a valor or... It wasn't a valor...”

• Zach Dasher (25:47): “Everything through time was leading to this one declaration to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.”

• Al Robertson (19:23): “Truth is still truth spread across whatever different way we find it communicated.”

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Conclusion

Episode 1090 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family offers a rich blend of personal stories, theological insights, and practical advice. By exploring the complexities of marriage, the nuances of digital communication, and the unchanging nature of divine truth, the Robertson family provides listeners with both relatable content and profound spiritual reflections. Whether grappling with understanding emojis or seeking deeper unity in faith, this episode serves as an inspiring guide for believers striving to live unashamedly for Christ in a rapidly evolving world.

Transcript

[Jase Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

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[Zach Dasher]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Al Robertson]

So welcome back to Unashamed. We've been doing some marriage counseling.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

In between.

[Willie Robertson]

In way of counseling. Jace, like, literally asked Maddie, if you really want to know, all you gotta do is ask me. But he said that. A version of that phrase probably 10 times.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. He kept going until he got her to ask me.

[Willie Robertson]

Sad. Okay, what. What is it? And then he said, okay, since you asked, I'll tell you after.

[Zach Dasher]

After.

[Al Robertson]

He's prompted her eight times to get there.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, you got to be connected. And whenever young Maddie speaks, it reminds me of my early days in marriage because I'm like, oh, yeah, they. It just. And she doesn't realize that. But you realize when you're. That those first five years of marriage.

[Al Robertson]

And Maddie's like, in year two, like early year two, I think.

[Zach Dasher]

I think. I think I gave a quote that my dad told me. Young Maddie's in the jockeying for position stage of marriage. That's what he used to say. Phil said, oh, about a five year. You're. You're kind of who's going to. Who's going to run this show? Which is all embarrassing, like when I think back. But he's right that. That's just the way it is.

[Willie Robertson]

Well, but you got to keep in mind, Jace, not everybody has the same dynamic as. Like, me and Jill certainly had that dynamic of a very robust.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, you may still be in denial.

[Willie Robertson]

No, I'm saying that. I mean, we had.

[Zach Dasher]

We.

[Willie Robertson]

We. Our relationship was. How do I say it was very passionate one way or the other. So we, you know, we had. But not everybody. I've learned over the years. Some people don't have. They have a different dynamic. There's a lot of different dynamics, is what I'm saying. You know what I mean? So that we don't know.

[Zach Dasher]

I think every couple that gets married, there is a period of wilderness where you're jockeying for position.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. How's this going to look over the long haul? Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. I'm going to stand by that blanket statement, and you may be right, but maybe some are more passionate. I think you said passionate. Trying to make a joke, but I would use the word volatile.

[Willie Robertson]

Volatile.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Willie Robertson]

We were like the stock market, you know, we would be up and down. And now it's kind of leveled. We get. Our levels are more nowadays. So until I will say this, we did have a major relapse after your marital intervention. When I came, me and Joe came on the podcast. We had a little relapse after that, after Yalls counsel.

[Zach Dasher]

But I just try to speak truth to power. Well, you may not.

[Willie Robertson]

Y' all may want to get out of the counseling business because that didn't work out. We got the biggest fight. We got into a long time.

[Zach Dasher]

I'm leaning on the greatest counselor the world has ever known. The Holy Spirit is.

[Willie Robertson]

I will tell you this. I read the comments and, okay, I want to say this about the unashamed nation. 90% of you guys are so kind and encouraging. And then there's about 10%, maybe 9% that can be a little stinging. And then there's about 1% that you guys go for the jugular.

[Zach Dasher]

That's 101%. If I do the math, 90, it's.

[Willie Robertson]

90 are just amazing.

[Zach Dasher]

9%.

[Willie Robertson]

Okay, I hear what you're saying. Then 1%, it's like, whoa, you guys are kind of brutal.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, I thought you were going to use. Since you did the 101, because I still can't add, even though I went to Pine Crest, which I love that school. But math was not the specialty. I thought you were going to use the 1% as the celestial powers, demonic forces. Okay, I wasn't going to do that. Okay, well, I think your gauge is wrong, because when people comment now, it's been five or six years since I've read comments on the Internet, but back when I did, yeah, I realized that I think that's an embellished version of humanity. I wouldn't. I wouldn't.

[Willie Robertson]

You're saying what you're reading on social media is that the comments are an embellished version of.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. What I mean is you're a real tough guy when you're, you know, on the couch in your underwear eating Cheetos.

[Willie Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

You know, making speeches about what you think about something, you know.

[Willie Robertson]

Well, it's called horror.

[Zach Dasher]

You may think that's. That's Terry from, you know, Ohio, and it's actually Rita from London.

[Willie Robertson]

That may be true. Yeah. You get behind the avatar. I get a lot more courageous behind an avatar, too, then you.

[Zach Dasher]

Right. Then you bring up something I've never heard of. I don't. I'm not. What. What is an. What do you say?

[Willie Robertson]

An avatar, like your social media avatar. It's like your online presence. It's a. It's like.

[Al Robertson]

It's a fake.

[Willie Robertson]

It's not you. It's a. It's a representation of you in the virtual world.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. So I would say that could be demonic.

[Willie Robertson]

No, it's just. Well, not in and of itself. I'm just saying you have.

[Zach Dasher]

If you're living a lie, you've now gotten to a camp who's the father of all lies. I think we're getting to that in John 8, are we not? We might so.

[Willie Robertson]

Well, I say that, but I said that because. Because there were. There was one. I won't even repeat the comment, but there was one really funny comment about the dynamic between me and Jill that was pretty brutal, but it was kind of funny. I can't. I really don't want to repeat it, but it was funny, so. But I read all that stuff, so.

[Al Robertson]

Well, Jill. The same reason I like to have Jill on the podcast and. And Missy as well, is because both of them are strong women.

[Willie Robertson]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

Strong godly women. But they. They don't have any qualms in taking both of you on, which I personally love to see that twisting because we spend a lot of time together and you guys are both self assured in where you are, but then when your wives come in, all of a sudden they're. They're really putting you to the test. Well, look, and you talk about passion. I mean, Zach, that's. It's a. It's actually a good word because I've mentioned this before. I think it was Joe Beam talking about marriage when he had these three circles that overlap. And in one circle, you had intimacy, which includes passion, you know, for a married couple, but it overlaps with conflict. So there's this little space where those two circles overlap. And a lot of times we go there because we don't always agree, and we are trying to. To you know, to do the jockeying, trying to figure out on any particular issue, you know, who's right, who's wrong, you know, and you balance those things. But the third circle you had over here to the farther right, which also also overlaps conflict, was withdrawal. And when a couple gets there, then they don't care anymore. And that's a terrible place to wind up, because when you're in withdrawal, you sometimes will venture into a little bit of conflict, but you. You're more comfortable not having intimacy. And so he always used to say, when you get in withdrawal, to get back to intimacy, you have to go through conflict. So I think there's a lot of truth in that. But it also, I mean, we love peace, and as we do grow mature, we get a lot of peace in our marriage. Because you're not worried just because you disagree with your wife. It's like you were described with you and Jill's that you may have a disagreement about something, but you're not worried that she's will walk out the door and leave you over some disagreement. You have a certain confidence and peace and knowing that you two are together for the long haul, there's a difference in that. And then people that don't have that.

[Zach Dasher]

Fast forward 30 some odd years into my marriage, and I have to give Maddie credit. Now, granted, it took one full podcast and I've been here for a few hours. We've already done a podcast that will, you know, in your world, we put them out, whatever, two or three days, Maddie. Yeah, but we do two every time we sit down. And no one noticed that not only did I get a haircut, I cut half my hair off. None of you even noticed. Did you notice, Al?

[Al Robertson]

I did not. But. But I'm looking at you without my glasses on a screen. I can just barely make you out.

[Willie Robertson]

Well, half.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean, it was over a foot long. It was. It was down to the middle of my back and probably cut over half. I'd say two thirds.

[Al Robertson]

I remember you saying on a previous bike, as you needed to cut it, but it's gotten so long you couldn't cut it yourself.

[Zach Dasher]

I didn't, actually. Wasn't a true statement. My wife said I needed to cut it. That's why I was getting into the marriage. Here, I got you. I gotcha. And so when I was coming back to do this podcast, Maddie said, did you get your hair cut? Which was kind of odd because I'd been here two hours already. And I was like, yep, you're the first person who noticed so what. Actually, what I did, since my wife has been dropping hints subtly saying might ought to do something there above the neck. And so I did it. So I sent her a picture. And of course, I asked Maddie if she could guess who actually cut my hair. And she said, do I know this person? I said, I think so, but I thought I would give you a shot at it. Al, do you have a guess or.

[Willie Robertson]

Is that of who did the job?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, because of course, you know, I don't go to barbershop.

[Willie Robertson]

Crickets. A girl named Cricket.

[Zach Dasher]

No, she cuts that. That was. That was a good, good answer. Because if I had to, you know, reach out and figure out who's gonna cut my hair, I like that.

[Al Robertson]

I would. I would guess Mia. If Mia was in town, she might have cut it.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. Nope, those are wrong.

[Willie Robertson]

Springtime is here. Some would say summer. And the living is easy. Unless you got to do a lot of yard work like me. Jill's got me outside. Re landscaping. Al, how's the landscaping going on down in your neck of the woods?

[Al Robertson]

Well, you know, it's that time of year and I. I tell you what, what really impressed me about our sponsor, Fast Growing Trees, is that when we received this package, because I get a lot of packages, when I opened this up, my plants, my trees were alive and they looked like they were ready to thrive. And that's what they're doing.

[Willie Robertson]

Yeah, you can even get like eight foot trees there. It's pretty incredible. Fast Growing Trees. It's the biggest online nursery in the US with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers. Al, you've received the fruit trees. I think you got a palm tree. I've got some shade privacy trees. The one I ordered was the Leland cypress. But now we're going to do the whole back area around our pool, so we're going to be ordering a bunch more stuff Fast Green Trees offers a wide variety of plants, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, and shrubs, all tailored to your climate and space with an easy online ordering process and quick delivery straight to your door. Plus, with their alive and thrive guarantee and expert support, your plants will arrive healthy and you'll receive guidance on choosing the right plants and learn how to properly care for them. If you'd like to do your own research, well, their research center is full of tips and advice from their plant experts to help you learn more about your yard's needs. And if you want to get into gardening but have no experience, the Fast Growing Trees website has all the information you need to get Started this spring. They had the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants and other deals. And listeners to our show get 15% off their first purchase when using the code unashamed at checkout. That's an additional 15% off at fast growing trees.com using the code unashamed at checkout. Fast growing trees.com code unashamed. Now's the perfect time to plant. Used unashamed to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. I was gonna say Jill, because the last time you got a. Well, you did a viral video that went. It went viral where you shaved your beard and cut your hair, and Jill did at my wife, but she's not in town, so I know she didn't do it.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Willie Robertson]

But there was that story, so.

[Zach Dasher]

Boy, this is a riveting cliffhanger, actually. And the reason I told you, I'm not sure, Maddie, is I actually did it myself, and it was not easy. That's why I said, do you really ever know someone? You know, But I didn't want Maddie to guess. When she said, do I know this person? I was like, well, absolutely. I'm standing here talking to you.

[Willie Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

No, I did it myself. And. And I thought I did such a good job. And I basically just got in front of a mirror, and it wasn't easy, but I did it. So I sent a picture to my wife saying, what do you think? And she didn't respond for a couple hours because she's in Nashville. And I think she. She. It took her a while to notice that I had cut my hair, because same problem y' all have. So this was her response, Maddie. So this is marriage counseling 101. She put nice. And I see. Honestly, anything would be good. But you know what? I read that about five times, and I thought, is that a compliment or is that a criticism? And I do not know to this day.

[Willie Robertson]

That's called a backhanded compliment.

[Al Robertson]

It's what it's called. Yeah. Maybe it's like. It's like Maddie telling Alex to tell me I look great, but tell me respectfully. It's basically saying, you look great now, but we didn't want to tell you not so much earlier.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, and the problem was she put one of those. What do you call the little faces? What do you call those?

[Al Robertson]

Emojis.

[Zach Dasher]

Emoji. I thought it might have been a valor or. No, what was the other word you said earlier?

[Al Robertson]

Oh.

[Zach Dasher]

What was that? Avatar. Little yellow face. And it has tears coming out of Both sides. But it has a smile.

[Al Robertson]

Well, that means it was a joke.

[Zach Dasher]

It was a joke.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

That's what she's laughing about.

[Al Robertson]

Yep. She's laughing.

[Zach Dasher]

Anything would be good. What was the emoji? It was. It's a little yellow. Laughing, crying.

[Willie Robertson]

Yep. She's.

[Al Robertson]

She's.

[Willie Robertson]

She's like saying, I'm joking. Like, this is like tongue in cheek. Like, hey, you think it looked better?

[Zach Dasher]

No, I think this is tongues. I need an interpreter.

[Al Robertson]

But no, there's. Here's the thing. There's truth in it, though, Jace, because, look, this just. There's just happened last night. So Beth has been trying to get me to go in the duck call room, and. But I just been busy and had a lot going on, and so she sends me a note and says, hey, are you in town to go in the duck call room? And I said, no, I'm in Gulfshore. And she said. And then she sent me one back and said, well, I don't want to be a pest. Lol. And then I sent her a. A picture back of a ear with a mosquito right next to the ear. And then I sent her an emoji of. With me winking, like it's a joke, but it's sort of like there's some honesty because you are being a past. But it's okay. I mean, I understand. That's what you do. You have to get, get. So that's. That's what Missy did as well. It's. She's. She's telling you she's kidding because she loves you, but, you know, anything is better than what you have.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, all right. Well, finally we solved that mystery.

[Al Robertson]

See?

[Zach Dasher]

See, you brought up Mia because the other day she sent. She asked me something. Somebody left her some money, and she's like, how much was it? And I sent her a picture of the. It was a hundred dollar bill. But she sent three of those emojis, all different. And I had no idea what that meant. I said, I don't know what this means.

[Al Robertson]

Well, Mandy would know.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean. Well, then she defined them. She put shocked, surprised, and let's see, it means happy. I'm surprised and shocked. But then she sent another one after that sentence, and I thought, this is just too complicated. It's getting too weird. Why didn't you just say that? Because now we have to have an interpretation. It's faces I've never seen. I don't even know what that is.

[Al Robertson]

Interesting. Jay, you brought up an interesting point. I never thought about the emojis now, and people Like Maddie's age, understand them immediately. It takes me a little while to figure them out, but it has become its own language.

[Zach Dasher]

Look, I'm going to send these to Maddie and you try to tell me what these things are. I mean, I've been on the earth 55 years. I had no idea. I sent her a picture of how much money she got and she sent me that. So there's a world that we're living in that I'm not familiar. I don't speak that language.

[Al Robertson]

Well, they also. I'll tell you another thing that happens is there's like, letters. People just put out letters. And half the time I don't know what that they are. And sometimes they're not good. When you find out, you're like, oh, I wish I didn't know that. But, yeah, there's like, they just. Now this is like this. What do you call it, Shorthand, I guess, language because of texting. I guess it makes sense, though, that every time you get a new venue to communicate, you're going to have to learn a whole new language. Is that right, Zach? I mean, is that what we're describing here?

[Zach Dasher]

Well, I really feel like the application of all this, which was not planned, obviously, but is why, you know, Jesus is encountering such opposition. Yeah, because he's just speaking in a language which was their language.

[Al Robertson]

But that's a good segue.

[Zach Dasher]

They just can't. It's. I mean, I felt when I saw that. I'm trying to figure out, what exactly is this? I don't know if this is good, bad, indifferent. I'm not sure what my next move is here, because this is foreign to me. It just made no sense. And so, you know, I think that is a good segue.

[Al Robertson]

No, because you're exactly right. Truth is still truth spread across whatever different way we find it communicated. And so no matter what, you plug into it across time. That's the beautiful thing about the Bible. We were talking about spiritual warfare recently, and the idea is that truth is going to always stand for what's right, because God is always right. I mean, the two inalienable things about God, he never lies and he always is. And so you can always depend on his faithfulness, which. Imagine from Jesus's perspective, Jace, that here he is talking to his people that he freed from Egypt because He's always been. And yet they have no idea what he's talking about.

[Zach Dasher]

Exactly. Well, I'm thinking I have to preach this Sunday. And I listened to your sermon from Ephesians 6, which I highly recommend. And we had Chad Wright and Jay on the last podcast, we were talking about spiritual warfare. But I kind of did something that was crazy. I don't know if you've ever done this. Al, I had a thought. You know how you start thinking about what am I going to preach on? You asked me to give an overview of Ephesians. And even though y' all have been studying Ephesians, which kind of came from our podcast that we did on Ephesians.

[Al Robertson]

It did.

[Zach Dasher]

I haven't studied Ephesians. I mean, that was what, few months ago?

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, we've been in John for a while. Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. And so I was like, well, to give an overview. Wow. But I thought of this illustration where kind of like what we're talking about, where I feel like we kind of have in our religious world and I mean in America, we kind of have this grid that it's kind of like you punch your ticket to get off this planet and be saved. And that's really the main focus. And when I read Ephesians, it gives this vision of what God accomplished in Jesus, which. That's the main phrase in the book of Ephesians. In Christ, it's like the happy place of heaven and earth. From the history of the world to the present world to the future world. In Christ is where every human needs to be. And where is he now? He's at the right hand of God. And it's more about what's happening now. That's why there's so much of it about the church. And so I feel like, you know, that what Ephesians reveals and then our kind of American narrative of just get punch your ticket and we're just waiting. We're just, you know, waiting.

[Willie Robertson]

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[Al Robertson]

You know, Zach, what I love about Abide, what it's meant to me, you know, we. We prepare for these podcasts and, you know, I spent a lot of time in the Word of God, but usually it's what, you know, I have the stress of. How are we going to share this in a way where people will get it? What I love about Abide for me is I get to start the day with something that just speaks to my heart. It's not something I'm necessarily going to share with other people. It's just a way for God's word to influence me first thing when I get the day started. It's been a great blessing.

[Willie Robertson]

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[Zach Dasher]

And so I wanted to do an illustration that proved my theory on where we're kind of doing now what Jesus is doing at the right hand of God. And the verse I was kind of getting all this from was in Ephesians 1:10, where it says, God goes through. From the beginning, he had this plan for people to be in Christ, Jews and Gentiles, which means the whole world to be in. Under this umbrella of in Christ. And here's what that's going to look like of all these people from all these different countries and different nations. This is what it's going to be like. And in Ephesians 1:10, it says, and this all the whole plan was to culminate with. I'll read it. I'll start reading. In verse nine, he made known to us the mystery of his will. You know, what does God want for humanity? He made known to us the mystery of his will according to his pleasure, which he purposed. There's a phrase in Christ to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment. I mean, drum roll. Everything through time was leading to this one declaration to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. So I'm like, man, what a statement. So I think we have two narratives. You have the one of Ephesians where all things in heaven and on earth are brought together now. And this is. He wrote that to the ephesians, what, almost 2,000 years ago.

[Willie Robertson]

Correct.

[Zach Dasher]

So we're still living that. But it doesn't feel that way in our religious establishments. It's kind of like, well, we're just waiting on this to happen. And so I did an illustration last weekend. I spoke out at camp. Did I tell you all about that?

[Al Robertson]

No.

[Zach Dasher]

They had like, a Sportsman's Day at Camp Chiocca, where we've all been. I mean, I think I first went to camp as just a little kid, which is why I did that. And so Willie and Corey.

[Al Robertson]

Willie and Corey met at camp.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

Like on the moonlight hike. So this goes meet my wife.

[Willie Robertson]

My parents met out of camp. And Al, my mom took you to that camp.

[Al Robertson]

She did. When I was nine years old.

[Zach Dasher]

I didn't meet my wife there. I met her, you know, at the church that sponsors camp. But I saw her out there, and that was part of the process. You know, I was like, what? Because they always used to ask, who are you going to take on a moonlight hike? And I was thinking, I'd like to take. Take that girl. But she probably wouldn't go, which was eventually going to be my wife. So I didn't even ask. But so what I did now, they had, you know, people from all over came and it was kind of a. I mean, I think it was a fundraiser for camp. I didn't really know what it was. They asked me to, you know, they said it's a. It's a Sportsman Day, you know, people who appreciate the outdoors. And they had like, boat. You shot bows and threw hatchets, and they had all kind of fun things for the kids. And there were probably a couple hundred people there.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. Including four. My four grandchildren were there and loved it. Joe.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, I missed all the festivities. I just came in for the. I was the last speech there. And so I guess they figured I'm a guy who kind of discovered God in the outdoors and the life change of our parents. How. But, you know, it led me to the Bible, which led me to Jesus, which led me to my surrender. But, you know, it all started me just looking at the creation, thinking, I think somebody created this. And so I gave my little speech, but I did this illustration to prove my point. And so I asked three questions. I did this right at the first. I said, well, let's do some audience participation here. Let's get to know each other. So. And I been famous for asking three questions that I got from Acts 17, which, by the way, echoes Ephesians 1. And maybe this will be a good test for y' all to say whether I should do this illustration. So what? Yeah, so here's what I'm doing. I'm doing an experiment to see if my thought process is right, that we kind of missed the big picture of Ephesians. And so I'll read this Acts 17, which I quoted without planning on doing it in my speech. But when God, when Paul was got up and shared to a group of people who are bowing down to an altar, this one inscription on this altar in Acts 17:23 got his attention because he looked carefully at the objects of worship from the people here in Athens in which I've been to this place, the modern day. It's still there. Yep. And he says they had an inscription that said, to an unknown God. He said, I'm going to proclaim this unknown God. And so he starts this sermon. He said, the God who made the world and everything in it. Now watch what he first says right off the bat is the Lord of heaven and earth. He says the same thing he wrote in Ephesians that was saying, this is the culmination of God's will and plan. He said, he's Lord of heaven and earth, and he doesn't live in buildings built by hands. And then you remember the rest of it. He's not served by human hands. He gives all men life, breath, everything else. Well, his sermon, which goes on to say, he did this so that men would reach out for him and seek him and find him, and we're his offspring, but he's not far from us. And then he goes on to end it by saying, he set a day when he'll judge the world. And he has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead. Well, out of that, I came up with three questions out of that sermon. So I asked them the three questions without reading that first, I just said, let's get to know each other. I said, so here's what. What we're going to do. I'm going to ask y' all a question, and I want everybody at the same time to answer it. I was like, it'll sound weird, but it'll be fun, and we'll see if a common theme comes out. So the first question I asked, I said, where are y' all from? And when I said that, 200 people simultaneously told me the state where they were born. And really there was no one state. You would have thought it was Louisiana. But actually, I didn't hear anybody say Louisiana. I heard Some Arkansas, you know, I heard it was like I was organizing some speaking in tongues here when the spirit poured out. Yeah, some Texas, you know, Oklahoma. I actually heard a Hawaii, because there was a couple that I met later that were from Hawaii that came all the way to this.

[Al Robertson]

That was the frequent flyer award.

[Zach Dasher]

So then I asked the second question. I said, what do y' all do for a living? I kind of gave a redneck question. Well, then I heard everything from, you know, barbecue to plumber to outdoor guide. I mean, it was just all these, you know, things that people do to make money. Of course, if you think about the question, I said, what do you do for a living? These were carefully orchestrated questions. Well, then the third question I ask is, I said, where are you all headed? And to my surprise, I only heard one thing from 200 people. You know what it was?

[Al Robertson]

Heaven.

[Zach Dasher]

They all said heaven. Now, for my illustration purposes, I actually thought that I was over three, because then I read Acts 17. Now, remember what I'm saying here? I'm prefacing since then. Well, they got the third one right. But my whole point for doing the illustration is, is that while we're here, we tend to think when I say where you're from, I was surprised that no one said I was made in the image of God. That's technically where I'm from. But we just tend to think, oh, I was born. I said, you know, I would have felt better if you would have said, well, I was born in Alabama, but where I'm from, I was made in the image of God.

[Al Robertson]

Zach, I'm such a good cousin to you because when you come into Westman Road, you usually stay at Hotel Al and Lisa. And in our guest room, guess what I have reserved for Zach and Jill Dasher.

[Willie Robertson]

It's a Helix. It's why I stay there. I want to know.

[Al Robertson]

I thought it's just you were cheap, but it's because you love the Helix mattress.

[Willie Robertson]

It's the Helix. Jill and I took the super Simple Helix sleep quiz because we weren't sleeping well. And we were matched with a mattress called the Midnight Luxe Mattress. Not too firm, not too soft. It's perfect for us because we're side sleepers. We've had our mattress for a couple of years now, and I'm telling you, it has changed the way that we sleep.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. And, Jase, you and Missy have Helix as well.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

We're one big Helix family. Lisa and I, when we took the quiz, we're moonlight. We're not side sleepers. We're back sleepers. And we like it just a little bit more in the middle. So there's. It fits you, it fits your lifestyle, fits where you sleep best. And look wherever you go, you want to be able to sleep on these mattresses. It's the thing I miss most when I'm on the road because we do a lot of speaking around the country and I love to get back home to get to my Helix mattress. Less hip pain, less shoulder pain, which, you know, you know what I'm talking about. If you have those issues when you sleep, we want you to check it out. For a limited time, you can go to helix sleep.com unashamed for 27% off site wide and a free bedding bundle with a sheet set and mattress protector with any luxe or elite mattress order. Exclusive. For listeners of unashamed, that's helix sleep.com unashamed for 27% off site wide and a free bedding bundle with any luxe or elite mattress order. Check them out. Helix sleep.com.

[Zach Dasher]

Number two, what do you do for a living? And they said all that. And I would have said I would have felt better if you had said, I'm a disciple of Jesus because in him is life you want to live. The whole Book of John has been about that. But I use as a platform my plumbing skills. But, you know, so. And then third, you know, where are you headed? Heaven. Said I would have felt better because. And I said this, I said, look, I don't want to offend you because I don't think that's technically wrong. But the Bible says way more about being with the Lord than it does the place. And actually you can make an argument of a new heaven and a new earth, which is usually how I frame it, you know, based on Revelation 21 or 22. My whole point in that was to show what I think the point of Ephesians is, which is understanding the fullness of God, which he says, we have many times, which is God the Father, who's for us, God the Son, who's with us, came to be with us and is with us now at the right hand of God and the Holy Spirit, which is in us. And that's really what this stress, that's what Ephesians is stressing. And I think the disconnect is that we're here to do worldly things. We're born in states, we do things to make money. Oh, and one day we're going to go to heaven. And I think that's the disconnect. And it proved my point, you know, that was not our answer to be ready to go immediately into those spiritual aspects of the Godhead.

[Willie Robertson]

There's an interesting thing that you just said there that if you indulge me for just a minute, I think it'll make a great point when someone asks where you're from. If you go back to the beginning of the Bible in Genesis chapter two. So if you read Genesis one, it's like it's the creation account. But then he kind of starts over in chapter two and gives a little bit more detail after he says that God rested on the seventh day. And then in verse four of chapter two, listen to this, what it says right before he talks about the creation of Adam and Eve. These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created and the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. And then he gets into when man was formed. And so when you were talking about that Ephesians passage of the coming together of heaven and earth, that is the ultimate goal, right? That heaven's going to come to earth. But if you think back at the beginning of creation, Adam and Eve really came out of. They were the generations of heaven and earth. So when you read the command in Genesis chapter one and just listen to this language, you think about generations, heaven and earth coming together, all the nations, every tribe, that whole entire. That whole thought process. He says in Genesis 1:28, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moves on the earth. So when you, when you get that picture, it's not that man is out of heaven at the creation. He's not has. No. He's actually ruling over all these things. It's in conjunction with. So then when you skip forward to chapter nine, it says, this is the. I mentioned this in a previous podcast. This is after the fall, after the world got so wicked and God saves Noah and Ate. He says, be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. So same language that you saw at the creation. Then Genesis 12, the calling of Abram and you, all the families of earth shall be blessed. Skip forward to Genesis 18. Just a few chapters later, he says, seeing that Abram, Abraham surely will become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of earth shall be blessed because of him. Skip forward to Genesis 25, and it says, Two nations are in your womb. Two peoples are in your womb. The older will serve the younger. Chapter 26. I will multiply your offspring as stars in the heaven, and I will give your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring here's the promise. All the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because Abram obeyed my voice and kept my charge. Then you skip over to chapter 27. Let the people serve you, and the nations bow down before you. Then you skip over to Psalm 22, which is interesting because Psalms 22 is what Jesus quoted when he was on the cross. And what does he say in Psalm 22? 27. All the. This is the one where it says, my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me? And at the end of that psalm, it says, the end of it is verse 27. All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations shall worship before you. Then you skip to Isaiah, chapter 2, verse 2. And you see all the nations will flow up the hill, verse 2, to worship the one true God. Then you go to Isaiah, chapter 49, and you see that I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation will reach the ends of the earth. Then you skip over to Hosea, chapter two. I'm just going through the Old Testament here, Hosea 2, 3, which says actually 223 says, and I will sow for her myself in the land, and I will have mercy on no mercy. And I will say to not my people that you are my people. And he shall go to you and say, you are my God. Then you get to the very last prophet Malachi, and you read in the book of Malachi right at the end of the old Testament, verse 11. For from the rising of the sun to its setting, my name will be great among guess what? The nations. And every place incense will be offered to my name. And a pure offering for my name will be great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts. And then you enter the New Testament. You get to Acts, chapter 2. All the nations are together. They're all speaking in different tongues, but they're all hearing each other. The coming of the kingdom comes in Jesus. And then at the end of Revelation 22, what do you see surrounding the throne of God? The nations. And so I just can't. I mean, when you read it this way and you go back to that Ephesians passage, like, you see that what's happening here is God is calling all all the people, all the tribes, all the tongues, all the nations to himself to rule in dominion Again, where heaven and earth are now united once again. That's our. That's our future hope and consummation of the kingdom at the second coming of Christ.

[Al Robertson]

Now that's really good, Zach. And that's, you know, speaking of overviews, Jason just did the whole Bible. I've only asked you to do Ephesians. He just did the whole Bible. But you know, it's funny, Jayce, because when you laid out those three questions immediately, I was thinking about my big outline for the book of Ephesians when we were preaching through it. And it so goes in line with those three questions you were asking of that audience. And you're. And I love the tie in to Acts 17. And my outline was declared intentions was the first one. In other words, that whole thing you read earlier of, of Jesus declaring Paul making these declarations that he was who he said he was is the same thing we do. And that's how we get the Holy Spirit, because we declare our intentions. We're all in on Jesus. And that's the first couple of books. I mean, a couple of chapters in Ephesians and then you get to those middle chapters and that's our determined integrity. That's the second role in this. And that is what we do with that and how we live. And so you see all these passages in Ephesians about how we live, how we act, how we react to other people. What does it look like in our marriage, what does it look like in our family, what does it look like in our work environment? All those are reflections, right? Because that's the integrity that comes about by having the Holy Spirit. And then you get into the last bit of Ephesians 6. And that's the third point, which is to your question about, you know, is that where we headed is displaying the image of Christ. In other words, we should look like, that's what he says, be imitators of Christ. The more we live for him, the more we've declared that this is, is who we are, the more we should be image bearers of Jesus. And they. People see that in us. That should be natural. It should be natural because it's the flow out of the Holy Spirit. That's why he calls it fruit.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Willie Robertson]

We have a new sponsor putting the show now, Shopify. Jase, you may have heard of this company.

[Zach Dasher]

I actually own stock in this company in my portfolio. So full transparency.

[Willie Robertson]

Well, I'm telling you, I've been using Shopify for years. It's an amazing company, amazing product. You know, if you're going to start your own business or if you have a product you want to launch, it could be extremely intimidating because you have to put on a lot of different hats. Duck Commander has used Shopify for years to power their store. And I'm telling you, it wouldn't be what it is today without Shopify. We actually use Shopify for the blind and all the unashamed merch.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. Missy uses Shopify for our Logtown estate website.

[Willie Robertson]

And Jill used it when she launched her book Shallows. I don't know how you do business without Shopify anymore, honestly. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world. Literally 10% of all E commerce in the US I'm talking about household names like Mattel, Gymshark, and of course, our businesses. And also brands that are just getting started. And it's easy to have an online store with Shopify that looks good. Shopify gives you your own design studio with hundreds of templates to match your brand style. Shopify also has a ton of helpful AI tools. It's pretty cool. They write your product descriptions for you. They do like the page headlines and even make your product picks look better. Back in the day, we needed a whole marketing team to do this, but Shopify makes it look like you already have one. It's just a few clicks to set up an email, social media campaigns to reach your customers. And the best part is these guys are pros at everything from managing inventory to international shipping processing returns. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into. With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/unashamed. Go to shopify.comunashamed shopify.com unashamed. Which I think to image Christ, because that's a big question. What does it mean to image Christ? And typically, what I think we want to do when we try to explain that is we want to go to Galatians 5 and we want to say, like, basically do the works of the spirit, like.

[Al Robertson]

Right.

[Willie Robertson]

But I don't think that's the right answer because those, those fruit of that fruit of the spirit. It's. It's the fruit of the spirit. So the fruit actually comes as a byproduct of whatever, the tilling of the soil, the planting, all that. Like the gardening part. Right. So we think about fruit comes out of a garden. So if I'm, if I'm gonna, if I want to have sunflowers, because I'M gonna have a big dove hunt in September and I want to. I'm gonna. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna plant sunflower seeds. I'm gonna cultivate the ground. I'm gonna till it. Plant a garden. I'm going to work a garden. I never make the fruit grow. I never make the flower bloom. That never. I never could ever do that.

[Al Robertson]

Because you couldn't.

[Willie Robertson]

If I say go out there and make a strawberry, like okay, what. Okay, let me get all the materials. What, Let me analyze what's in a strawberry. And I'm going to get these elements and I'm going to put it all. No, you don't do that. What you do is you cultivate a garden and then it produces the fruit. And that's the picture of what? Well, how do we. Well that's, that's Edenic language. Right? What were they? So to image Christ, what does it mean to image Christ? To image Christ is to have dominion over the earth, to subdue it, to take the Garden of Eden and expand it. It's to cultivate a garden and then the fruit comes as a result of the cultivation, not the other way around. That's what it means to image Christ. And instead what we do is we take our God delegated dominion and authority and NT Wright talks about this in a very eloquent way and we hand over that God delegated dominion and authority which we're supposed to exercise over the world and instead we hand that over to the idols to have dominion over us. And this seems to be the very nature of what sin is. Sin is to take your God given dominion and authority and to hand it over to idols and give it to them. Instead, it's to not image Christ and instead it's to. It's. It's to let the creation have rule over you. Romans chapter one. It's to worship the creature or the Creator rather than. Sorry, it's to worship the creature or the creation rather than worshiping the Creator. That's the difference.

[Al Robertson]

And then that is it in that exactly what Jace was describing was happening in Acts 17 by the people that were. That's what you know, they were. They had all these other gods and they thought that was the pathway and all their philosophies and all their wisdoms and all the things they had. When he said right in the midst of it all you've got the answer. The unknown God. And then he described to him who he was.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, what I was, where I was going with that is the last time we did the podcast out of John. You know, he has this beautiful passage in chapter seven that says, if anyone is thirsty in verse 37, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scriptures said, streams of living water will flow from within him. By this, he meant the Spirit. So he came down here, you know, and it's like, you'll never thirst. I'm going to give you the Holy Spirit, and it's going to flow out. And we talked about that. You know, you were asking the question, what is imaging God? What does that look like? Well, it looks like Jesus being on the earth, and we have his spirit. We're doing this again. Jesus has been multiplied by the millions. And now we go out. And that's why I said those answers to those first two questions. I think you should get in the habit of making it be what it really should be about. Where are we from? But it came from, you know, in John 6. I mean, it just had a profound impact on me when here comes Jesus, you know, after he does the miracle, which you would think that would do it, but it didn't, because it became the question, well, wait a minute, where are you from? Because you're just a man, you're a carpenter. And they were having trouble, just like we have the same trouble today. And you trying to say, oh, I have the Holy Spirit from heaven in my body right now. And I just want to reiterate this because I think right after he says that profound statement, you're going to see my point. But if you go back to John 6, where he said over 10 times he used this phrase, but I just want to read them just to make the point. Kind of like what Zach did in 6:33, he says, for the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. Then in 38, he says, for I have come down from heaven not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me. So is he not answering this question on where you're from? Look, in 41, he says, I am the bread that came down from heaven. I am the bread that came from heaven. Then 42, they say, well, wait a minute, I thought this was Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know. How can he now say I came down from heaven? They're making a point of this statement, verse 50. But here is the bread that came down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. And they're not even focusing on that. Did he just say that we won't die. They're like, he's not. He won't drop it. 51. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he'll live forever. Look. 58. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this will live forever. So then you go to John 7, and look, he just says this about the Holy Spirit. And in verse 41, 40 and 41 it says, on hearing these words, some of the people said, this is John 7, 40 and 41. Surely this man is a prophet. Others said, he's the Christ. Till others ask, how can the Christ come down from Galilee? Wait a minute. How many times does he have to say, does not the scripture say that the Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem? And I know we hit on this point, but we didn't focus on it. Look, he could have said he was from Bethlehem because that would have been true.

[Al Robertson]

That's true.

[Zach Dasher]

Wrong answer. That's not why he came. And that's why I came up with that idea about that illustration. Don't tell me where you were born. Tell me what you're about, which is what Jesus did. I came from heaven, forget where I was born. And basically their problem with him is he had the wrong zip code. And I'm not sure what the zip code of heaven is, but he tried to say in the moment it's B, R E a D from heaven.

[Al Robertson]

So here. So we're out of time. But here's the deal. Jay's when somebody says, where were you born? You say, oh, that's not important. Let me tell you when I was born.

[Zach Dasher]

Again, I think it's a great conversation starter to what we should be doing. And I think we have the wrong narrative in our church buildings. That's why we're not going out and declaring it.

[Al Robertson]

I think that's so good. And next time we get back in the late part of John 7, John 8, we'll pick it up from there. So we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.

[Zach Dasher]

It.