Ep 1112 | Jase Challenges the Lie That Your Suffering Is a Punishment for Sin

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ep 1112 | Jase Challenges the Lie That Your Suffering Is a Punishment for Sin

Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Host/Author: Tread Lively
Release Date: June 19, 2025

In Episode 1112 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family, titled "Jase Challenges the Lie That Your Suffering Is a Punishment for Sin," Jase Robertson leads a deep and insightful discussion aimed at debunking the common misconception that personal suffering stems from sin. Joined by Phil Robertson and Zach Dasher, the episode delves into biblical interpretations, personal anecdotes, and theological debates to provide listeners with a fresh perspective on faith and hardship.

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1. Opening Discussion: The Concept of Suffering and Sin

The episode kicks off with Jase introducing the central theme: challenging the belief that suffering is a direct punishment for personal sin. This premise sets the stage for a nuanced exploration of faith and adversity.

Notable Quote:

Jase Robertson [05:43]: "I think people assume that’s the first phrase, say, oh, well, you were born by nature to be an object of wrath. Well, I got a problem with that."

2. Biblical Analysis: The Story of the Man Born Blind (John 9)

Jase and Phil delve into the Gospel of John, specifically chapter 9, to examine the narrative of Jesus healing a man who was blind from birth. They explore how this story counters the idea of suffering as divine retribution.

Key Points:

• Jesus’ Intent: The healing was not a consequence of sin but to display God's work through the man’s life.
• Pharisees’ Response: Their investigation revealed a flawed theology, focusing on legalism rather than compassion.

Notable Quotes:

Phil Robertson [26:06]: "The acts of sinful nature are obvious as a way to combat sometimes when people like to do what I call detective work of sin building."

Jase Robertson [15:10]: "So I think I just won that argument."

3. Linguistic Insights: Understanding 'Nature' in the New Testament

Jase provides a detailed linguistic analysis of the word "nature" as it appears in Ephesians and Galatians, highlighting the differences in Greek terminology and their implications for interpreting sin.

Key Points:

• Different Words, Different Meanings: The Greek term for "sinful nature" differs from the one used to describe Jesus becoming flesh, indicating distinct concepts.
• Association vs. Inherent Nature: Emphasizes that sinful behaviors are a result of associations rather than inherent traits.

Notable Quotes:

Jase Robertson [22:31]: "What we’re talking about here is these two kingdoms, these two entities, one of them’s lying, one of them is telling the truth, and you’re going to get the consequences from whichever one you’re in."

4. The Heart of the Pharisees: Rejection of Divine Revelation

The discussion shifts to the Pharisees' mindset, exploring their reasons for rejecting Jesus despite witnessing miracles, and how their pride and rigid adherence to tradition blinded them to divine truth.

Key Points:

• Pride and Fear: The Pharisees were threatened by Jesus' teachings and miracles, leading them to reject Him to protect their own status.
• Lack of Genuine Hearing: Their focus on legalistic observance prevented them from truly hearing and accepting Jesus' message.

Notable Quotes:

Zach Dasher [54:03]: "The beggar had nothing to lose and everything to gain. The Pharisees had nothing to gain and everything to lose in their mind."

5. Personal Anecdotes: Faith in Action

Phil shares personal stories illustrating the intersection of faith and practical life, such as participating in medical mission trips and witnessing miracles firsthand. These narratives underscore the tangible impact of faith beyond theological debates.

Key Points:

• Medical Missions: Experiences in Mexico highlighted the profound emotional and spiritual impact of healing.
• Everyday Faith: Emphasizes that faith is lived out in everyday actions and relationships.

Notable Quotes:

Phil Robertson [43:08]: "And I just remember us sitting there thinking. I mean, we just watched it in his mind. That was a miracle."

6. Conclusion: Embracing Authentic Faith Without Legalism

The episode wraps up with a call to embrace a more authentic and compassionate understanding of faith, free from the constraints of legalistic interpretations that often lead to misunderstanding and rejection of divine purpose.

Notable Quotes:

Jase Robertson [55:44]: "You're not going to be able to see without Jesus."

Zach Dasher [55:57]: "Which you think, well, I thought he didn't come in to condemn the world, but to save it. But part of that light shining is judgment because it's revealing your heart."

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Key Takeaways:

• Suffering ≠ Punishment: Personal hardships are not necessarily divine punishments for sin but are opportunities to witness and transform faith.
• Biblical Context Matters: Understanding the original language and context of biblical texts can significantly alter their interpretation.
• Rejecting Legalism: Authentic faith focuses on love and compassion rather than rigid adherence to rules that may obscure divine truth.
• Personal Faith Stories: Real-life experiences and mission work reinforce the practical application of faith principles.

Final Thoughts:

Episode 1112 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family offers a thought-provoking challenge to a widely held belief linking personal suffering to sin. Through biblical analysis, linguistic exploration, and personal anecdotes, Jase Robertson and his co-hosts encourage listeners to reevaluate their understanding of faith, sin, and suffering, advocating for a more compassionate and authentic spiritual journey.

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For more insights and inspiring stories, subscribe to the Unashamed podcast on Apple Podcasts or YouTube, and don't forget to leave a rating and review!

Transcript

[Jase Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

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[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Zach Dasher]

3, 2, 1. We're live.

[Phil Robertson]

Get it? That was a fake countdown. I can't even.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Respond to that.

[Zach Dasher]

I'm looking at that coffee over there. We've already decided if you're watching the.

[Phil Robertson]

Podcast, because we're in the afternoon. We're out of our. We're out of our element.

[Zach Dasher]

It's out of our element.

[Jase Robertson]

This may be the first time in the history of this show that we've ever done a podcast in the afternoon.

[Phil Robertson]

There haven't been many.

[Jase Robertson]

So we had Shane and Shane on a few podcasts ago.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, here's what's funny is Al, I did one of their shows. They do a daily devotional or whatever.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And did you sing? Oh, I sung, yeah. And Missy was in charge of it. If you would have filmed behind the scenes of that.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, this is when she went choir teacher on them.

[Jase Robertson]

She went choir teacher because they said, teach us the song. But I didn't. I knew they didn't realize what that meant because here, I mean, they're pretty world class singers. My. My wife is in charge. You're fixing to do what she says. She all but slapped him on the hand and said, we're gonna sing this song this way. And they kept trying to interview you.

[Phil Robertson]

Said, she said, that's good. Listen, listen.

[Jase Robertson]

She said, quit playing the guitar and listen. Because they kept. They were breaking the fourth wall.

[Zach Dasher]

We're breaking the fourth wall.

[Jase Robertson]

We all want to come back out of that.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, we all got coffee coming.

[Jase Robertson]

So it was fun, but. So I used the same illustration to them and I said. Because I Said, look, I think this is great that y' all have invited us to sing one of your devos and Missy's going to teach you a song. And we sang it acapella. The whole funny part of it was it wasn't that she wanted to sing the song acapella and they usually have instruments. It was the fact that this song was created for four parts of harmony to mesh at the end. It's like, that is the power of love one another. Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Greatest Commandments was called, which I didn't.

[Zach Dasher]

Know that her mom wrote one of.

[Jase Robertson]

The parts she wrote. Well, that's when I realized why she was being so. She was just being very direct. She was like, yeah, her mom wrote a part of it. So then they got real quiet, you know, it was so funny to me. I was laughing so hard because she was all business. And, you know, you're doing this off the top of your head. And they didn't know the song. And I'm like, what could go wrong? A lot. So what I told them, I said, you can always do the Andy Griffith philosophy on this. Which none of them had seen that. So then I started questioning their salvation.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

In the singing business. Because I said, what, you haven't seen that?

[Phil Robertson]

And they had a lot of episodes around them. Singing in a choir.

[Jase Robertson]

Exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

Which was really cool.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, the choir director, my favorite line of that Andy Griffith episode, when he would go meet with Andy, and he was like, but Andy, he can't sing. Because he was like, it's going to break his heart. But Andy, he can't sing. And so they go do the mic test. And they. They convinced him that the mic was so sensitive that the softer he sang, the better it would sound.

[Phil Robertson]

And then they had Gomer Powell outside the window.

[Jase Robertson]

No, it wasn't. It was just some guy who was. Not at all.

[Zach Dasher]

That's.

[Jase Robertson]

That was good tea there.

[Phil Robertson]

That was good tea.

[Jase Robertson]

He comes out with this booming voice and. And Barney was.

[Phil Robertson]

Barney thinks it's him.

[Jase Robertson]

He. You see, he swells up with breath.

[Phil Robertson]

Because it was just, you know, booming.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, and it's like, everybody. So I was like, well, we'll do that. I was like, I'll sing so soft. Because the problem was. The problem, this whole thing was it's a four part harmony.

[Phil Robertson]

But Zach, he can't sing.

[Jase Robertson]

That's what I kept saying. I was like, you gotta hang on to Missy. Said, jason, sing the bass. And I said, hang on here. Alone. I kept saying, alone. And so one of their guys, who. Who was just a grip Guy for Shane. And Shane, he's like, I. I actually know this song.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And I said, he grew up in the.

[Zach Dasher]

In the church of Christ.

[Jase Robertson]

I said, well, sing. I said, sing with me softly because I just need someone to lead. I need to hear.

[Phil Robertson]

He can't sing.

[Zach Dasher]

That's good.

[Jase Robertson]

So I'm nervous about when it comes out because it's the bas. You know what's funny? We had this whole argument because Reed, my son, was there. Who can sing the telephone book.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

But he was doing the tenor part. But the tenor part comes later. So actually, to do this, actually, he started. Reed started off with me on the base because it comes a little later.

[Zach Dasher]

Right.

[Jase Robertson]

And so it actually worked out. I mean, I'm sure I hit a bad note or two in there, but just full disclosure. But I actually.

[Zach Dasher]

I've listened to it.

[Jase Robertson]

What'd you think?

[Zach Dasher]

I thought it sounded great.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, how was the bass?

[Zach Dasher]

The bass was. I'm telling you, I was. Jace, you can sing.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, that song my dad really loved, which is why we did it.

[Phil Robertson]

And it's one of my favorite.

[Jase Robertson]

Sung it so many times.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, my goodness.

[Phil Robertson]

Years ago, when we sang it at wfr, we went through an era where we sang it and they would always have this hold hands across the aisles, which was always awkward to me. But it was so loved by the church that it was.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, if you grew up in the church of Christ, you know, it's like a. Let me know you grew up in the church of Christ without telling me. Well, just sing that song. And you know that you grew up in the church of Christ.

[Phil Robertson]

Anything with full. Bartholomew.

[Zach Dasher]

I went to Harding University, which is a church of Christ school. Pepperdine is one where your kids went. Abilene Christian, but at all. In Lipscomb and chapel, we would sing that song with 4,000 students, and it was like, whoo.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. It's very touching. And it was great at the dad's celebration service. I thought it sounded.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, he loved it. Well, I think it's with all the chaos of life, and you always have family disagreements and all that. There was just always something about that song. When you sing with other people and it was just voices, it's like, okay, it's a reset here. We gotta love one another. Things happen. And so that's why that song means a lot to me. I love that song. And you. You conclude Jesus was right again.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, love God, love your neighbor. Which is.

[Phil Robertson]

How many times did dad say that? Yeah, love God, love your neighbor. You know, he would.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, Then he would give it a try, for crying out loud.

[Jase Robertson]

No, he would say, give me a break.

[Zach Dasher]

Give me a break. So he always did that whistle thing too?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, you know, say he would always do that when he was, like, making a joke sometimes. Next time we get Willie on here and just help me remember, Maddie, that we need to do a revival. Speaking of revival of Willie doing Dad reading the church bulletin.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, you have to set it up, though, because Phil, that was a classic.

[Phil Robertson]

He went through an era.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I'm trying to think of the Christianese language that Zach used all the time. A season. He went through a season of life. He said that on the last podcast.

[Zach Dasher]

I do have my. Ey. You don't like the word? You don't like that term? You think it's Christian?

[Phil Robertson]

I wrote a book on it.

[Jase Robertson]

I think somebody in a meeting one time decided to categorize everything. And it's like, I'm going through this season right now. I just don't like it.

[Zach Dasher]

You're so cynical.

[Phil Robertson]

But.

[Zach Dasher]

Part of me receives it because I think I know what you're saying.

[Phil Robertson]

And because you've got a couple of cynical bones in your body, by the way.

[Jase Robertson]

It's like, just call it a season.

[Zach Dasher]

I can't stand that. Seem a little pretentious.

[Jase Robertson]

Most of the times, though, when people say that, it's coming from the outfit thing that became a thing in churches, you know, where everybody started wearing these weird get ups, you know, and then everybody's wearing the same. They got like high top tennis shoes.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, no. And there was the. The elf boots and the hat and the little vest.

[Jase Robertson]

You look like you're going camping or. Or when the tennis shoe phase come. What's he gon dunk a basketball? Make an illustration somewhere in it? No, it's just like the look.

[Phil Robertson]

I would walk into green room after green room after green room, and everybody would look the same. The hat, it was like a little.

[Jase Robertson]

I did like five events in a row where when I shook the pastor's hand, he literally had the same get up as the guy. Five states over that. I just did an event, and after the fifth one, I just said, look, you need to consider your wardrobe. All of y' all look the same.

[Phil Robertson]

I would always look at myself and I said, I didn't get the memo that this was what we're supposed to.

[Jase Robertson]

Wear somewhere in all this, because Zach was, you know, I'm what church I was raised in. I mean, I was raised in a bar, and I'm actually kind of thankful for it.

[Phil Robertson]

Because I had a jukebox.

[Jase Robertson]

I missed all the seasons and the Christianese and what we're supposed to do and how we're supposed to chase.

[Phil Robertson]

That was your bar season. You were just in the season.

[Zach Dasher]

I'm just saying bar season.

[Jase Robertson]

I. I really think the church is a movement of where the body of Christ. We're supposed to move on the planet and be authentic. And I just think once you kind of get to a building and you feel like you got to wear the same, like, fashion to identify yourself with certain groups. We. We. We just. We. We missed it. I mean, I think the verse says, when we're Galatians 3, we put on Christ.

[Zach Dasher]

Have you heard of that? Have you heard of the Instagram page called Preacher Sneakers?

[Jase Robertson]

I have. We actually talked about this on the podcast. We talked about this. All they do. Yeah. I think I brought. We had a guy on who didn't. We have the guy on that does that site. I've met him somewhere.

[Zach Dasher]

He's from here.

[Phil Robertson]

I don't think it was here.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I met him somewhere, but all.

[Zach Dasher]

He does, he's from Russia.

[Jase Robertson]

He puts on the prices of shoes or outfits that preachers wear. That's what he does. Oh, really? He doesn't preach a sermon. He's just like this pastor, and he has all the arrows pointed a link.

[Zach Dasher]

He'll put a screenshot of the pastor. They'll have this, like, his whole outfit, and it'll be like the sneakers, like, $900. The jeans, you know, $2,000. It'll have the whole. And you're looking at it. You're like, whoa.

[Phil Robertson]

So you guys know how much we love the chosen here on the unashamed podcast. Season five is now streaming on Prime Video. Dallas Jenkins, of course, is the creator. He's a great friend of our podcast. And Jace, he's become a great friend. He and his wife of you and miss him.

[Jase Robertson]

He has. We were fans of the Chosen, then we had them on the podcast, and we became really good friends. And I went to the Season 5 premiere, also went to the Season 4 premiere, and I'm happy to announce that it's out on Prime Video.

[Phil Robertson]

So in this season, the final hours are approaching, and here's their description of it, and I love it. It says, loyalties will be tested, pushed to the edge of faith and trust. Friendships will be questioned, challenged, and shaken by uncertainty and doubt. Alliances will be broken, families will be divided, and nothing will ever be the same again. It's a journey of faith, doubt, hope, transformation, and love. Experience the Incredible story of one unforgettable night that changed the course of history forever. We all know that this story is so profound, it didn't just change lives, it changed the world. We'll be watching the new season. You don't want to miss it. Season five is now streaming on Prime Video. But you know, it's funny that sometimes looks can be deceiving. I remember Mike and I were doing a peak of the week one time, which was our Wednesday night thing, and I forgot. I can't remember the text we were in. We were talking about how that sometimes you get deceived. And so we asked Randy to wear what he would typically wear at Merrill lynch, you know, because he's a financial guy, obviously. Nice suit. And so we had him come up. We called him up front, and so we went through his outfit, you know, and it was kind of embarrassing, but it was funny. And about the cost. And we had looked it up and then we had the cost of it. Well, then dad was there and I had made sure and got like, dad's the full deal. Like, he was wearing his camo. His. At that time, we were doing Under Armour camo, but I had brought his coat and everything. So we put all of dad stuff on. Then we did a price comparison. Guess who has way more money?

[Zach Dasher]

It's like, as you see, some of.

[Phil Robertson]

The Under Armour camo was almost double that.

[Jase Robertson]

I actually made that point when I. One time I was at an event, they wouldn't let me in because he thought I was a vagrant, which has.

[Phil Robertson]

Happened on more than one occasion. Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And I made the point somewhere in the argument because he said something about my clothes, you know, And I was like, I will bet you $100 that I have on me right now that my wardrobe costs more than yours. And he's like, I'll take that bet.

[Phil Robertson]

And you're going to regret because I'm the best.

[Jase Robertson]

And we started looking it up, and then all of a sudden he's like, well, how about I just let you in with an apology? But I really wanted that $100. I was like, well, you think about.

[Zach Dasher]

If you see someone roll up in a. In a $90,000 Audi, and you think, oh, pretentious. Yeah, but they roll up in a hundred thousand dollars King Ranch Ford pickup truck. You don't think anything about it. But, I mean, that's the truck.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, they say truck is. That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

My whole point is, Jesus didn't look like that. He didn't have anything expensive.

[Phil Robertson]

Nothing.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, but you Might drop get off the flat bill hat and the.

[Zach Dasher]

You got Joseph, Joseph of Arimathea. He was a rich man. Jesus was buried under rich man's tomb. You can be rich and be a Christian.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, but I say Jesus wasn't. But I The comparison of Jesus, because I have two categories. Jesus and then everybody else. So I think I just won that argument.

[Phil Robertson]

Plus, when you. When you own the universe, you don't need it.

[Zach Dasher]

It's all yours anyway.

[Phil Robertson]

Which is kind of funny because, like, the only thing I could relate to that was. Was Alton Howard, who was Corey's grandfather, who was a very wealthy man, but never had money on him. Like, we would go someplace, and I was literally an intern at our church, so I was making about a thousand a month from him, which was a blessing. But we would go someplace and he wouldn't have any money. And he'd be like, you kind of. You got. You got any cash? And I was like, yes, sir. You know, and I would pull out my little money and pay for the coffee or whatever we did.

[Jase Robertson]

This is a common problem with.

[Phil Robertson]

He was paying my salary, but he never carried money.

[Jase Robertson]

I've been with a lot of celebrities, baseball players, and not usually with Willie. And guess who financed whatever we had to do. Me. Because none of them had any money. Well, I got to talk to my guy.

[Zach Dasher]

I got no cash.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, now it's a little more. Yeah, because that does it, too. But now is a little more. Because transactions are what they are.

[Zach Dasher]

It used to be like.

[Phil Robertson]

But in the old days, you still had money.

[Zach Dasher]

It was a strategy. You didn't carry cash. Oh, I'll grab you later. It was a way to get out of paying for little stuff. And one thing I did want to remind the audience, we are doing this promo. Al you know about it, heyjack.com this is a site you guys can log into. You just go to heyjack.com you can set up a profile. And anytime you book travel, I'm telling you, you're going to get the cheapest prices on the Internet. Plus you're going to get cash back. This is offered just to our audience and just to the duck call room right now. So if you guys want to check it out, you go to heyjack.com, you go into the unashamed tab, set up a profile, and then start booking travel. I mean, this is the best thing on the Internet right now for booking hotels.

[Phil Robertson]

Hey, Jack.

[Zach Dasher]

Plus, for a limited time, we're doing a giveaway. If you sign up from the unashamed tab, we're going to draw a name out and give someone 500 in travel voucher from the site heyjack.com but. But I want to push back on the flat bill hats. I don't think there's anything wrong with them.

[Jase Robertson]

Although I have.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean, I wear some flat bill hats. In fact. You guy called you a narcissist. Yeah, one guy made fun of me for wearing my flat bill hats.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

He said he, he, I mean, just.

[Jase Robertson]

Went after me on really like it was a thing.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, you got.

[Phil Robertson]

It's not my thing. But I don't disparage people, that we.

[Jase Robertson]

All missed the point. I was just saying if you all look this.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I get you.

[Jase Robertson]

There's some kind of get up that's very noticeable. The high boots and the just weird look to it.

[Zach Dasher]

And I'm like, it's like, it's like fashionable. It's like it's real fashion.

[Jase Robertson]

It's like, if I'm gonna be a preacher, this means I'm a cool one.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And I'm like, no, that goes against everything I think the Bible says. So there you go.

[Zach Dasher]

There's my speech controversy right there.

[Phil Robertson]

So if, if you're listening and that's your get up, that's. That's what we're saying.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I just always say be modest.

[Zach Dasher]

I'm okay if you look. I'm a little more open to if you want it. Yeah. It is a little weird. It's not weird that the get up is not weird. I did think it was strange that it was like plug and play. And I think that's what's weird, that.

[Phil Robertson]

It was like state after day. Jason's exactly right because I had this.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

I make the story, make me think.

[Phil Robertson]

He less of him. But it's just.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, I actually think, though, we're at an interesting moment in our culture, particularly when it comes to church, that I think we're at the end of that. I think people like. Our church is kind of a refuge for different groups of people. One of the groups, I would say, are those who kind of got the end to the end of that movement. And just like, man, what are we doing here? This is like a plug and play.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I. There's a lot of conferences now that are bursting forth where they're kind of embracing the idea that we may disagree on some things, but we're going to come together. Well, you know, that's, that's rare.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, plus, I don't know how it is around the country, although I've been. I'VE been hearing about it. I know it's huge here, and Zach was just a part of one. A spiritual wave is what I call them. They'll. They'll roll through. And I call them Holy Spirit moments. But it's. Lately, it's. Retreats are the thing that a lot of people have found their connection to God, Christ and community at the same time. And that's usually at a campground somewhere, someplace out in the middle of nowhere.

[Zach Dasher]

It's super dialed back, the one I went on. And you're not supposed to talk about it too much because they got a whole Things I'll say that were meaningful that I think I could share.

[Jase Robertson]

And why is it private?

[Zach Dasher]

Well, it's part of the.

[Phil Robertson]

They're trying to make you experience it without knowing what happened. It's like not telling a movie.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, we're just exchanging one Christianese for another. Oh, we have a secret thing. I just. Thank you. If you're gonna go public for Jesus, go public for Jesus. If you have something working. Hey, I got. Guess what? Pass it on. Don't keep it a secret.

[Zach Dasher]

It's not. You're not keeping a secret. What you're doing is.

[Jase Robertson]

You're. You're.

[Zach Dasher]

You're inviting people into an experience. I didn't know what I was getting into. And you're kind of out of your element. I was a little uncomfortable going into.

[Phil Robertson]

It, but I'm saying there's a lot of people. But there's a hunger being introduced.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, I think there's a hunger. There's a hunger happening across the globe right now of people that are getting to the end of kind of what they thought would sustain them in there. And I don't. It's. It's crazy what they're. They're seeking out and they're. And they're finding Jesus. And it reminds me of that Acts 17 passage, that he's not far from each one of us. And I got invited this week, last week, this past week, to a. A testimony night, which I. You know, we love testimonies growing up in our. The way we grew up hearing them all the time. But in Asheville, it's not as common. That culture is not as common for people to openly share their story. And so Jill had met this girl on Instagram that lived in Asheville because I talked a lot about New Age people coming to Christ in our area, at our church, a lot. And this other girl, not affiliated with anything we're doing, was on Instagram and had this viral clip where she was like, what's with all the new age people coming to know Jesus and she was a former new age person.

[Jase Robertson]

I don't even know what new age is.

[Zach Dasher]

It's like kind of like Buddhist, Hindu, kind of like hippie, kind of like.

[Phil Robertson]

Kind of a one with the universe vibe. They would.

[Zach Dasher]

They probably wouldn't refer to.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, I like the name new age because really, like when you see eternal life.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Translated. I mean, when you go back to the Greek, it was kind of this present age.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Age to come.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Jase Robertson]

That was their. The Jewish mindset of that we see eternal life. It leads us to think about all kinds of things. That's why people got into just like a bodiless existence through eternity because.

[Phil Robertson]

Which is kind of what he's describing.

[Zach Dasher]

It's kind of like that. And, And.

[Phil Robertson]

But convert to energy.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. Very energy. Healers and some Wiccan culture, like kind of witches and things like that. They're all kind of.

[Phil Robertson]

To me, they need chakra and you're, you know, parts.

[Jase Robertson]

They need to hear about the bodily resurrection. I mean, the last podcast, when we closed, you. You weren't here because you had an emergency.

[Zach Dasher]

On the last.

[Jase Robertson]

I thought you had to go to the bathroom, but it turned out you.

[Phil Robertson]

Just walked like I did. We didn't ask you.

[Jase Robertson]

He had a meeting.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, it was a meeting.

[Jase Robertson]

Embarrassing. I was like, you can't wait two minutes for a meeting. But.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, when I left the podcast, I could not wait 30 more seconds for my meeting. I had a problem.

[Jase Robertson]

You were forgiven. But anyway, I read.

[Zach Dasher]

I was going from 45 seconds.

[Jase Robertson]

I want to share this to take you back, because I was. I was breaking down that word, the flesh that we're. We're born into with the word that, you know, that some, Some translate.

[Phil Robertson]

No, you were tracking. I liked where you were.

[Jase Robertson]

But Luke 24, I thought it was very profound after his resurrection when he said, look at my hands and my feet. Yeah, it is. I. I myself. Touch me and see. A ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see. I have. Well, that word flesh. Same word.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

This is post resurrection.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, if it was something negative. Completely.

[Zach Dasher]

Jason, I know that summer camps, particularly Christ centered summer camps, were a big part of your life. Correct.

[Jase Robertson]

My entire life. I've seen a lot of good things happen in the woods when young people are talking about Jesus, which is why.

[Zach Dasher]

We love this ministry and what they're doing here with these summer camps. The Tomorrow Club summer camps are more than just a fun experience, although they are fun. They are often the Beginning of a lifelong journey with Jesus. And so many of these kids meet Christ for the very first time at camp. And then they go on to grow their faith in local Tomorrow Clubs. In fact, in the small village of Sabadlo, Georgia, a young girl named Sonia found hope and purpose at a Tomorrow Clubs camp. Touched by the love that she experienced, Sonia invited her mom, Anna, who had a long battle with depression and some family struggles. She invited her to the local church. Anna encountered healing and found faith in Christ there. So today, she and Sonya both served together as Tomorrow Club leaders, helping others discover the same that they once received. And this one story is just a glimpse of how God uses these simple camps to spark deep, lasting transformation in families, churches, in fact, in entire communities, especially in remote and often forgotten places. Our goal is to reach 3,000 kids through 30 summer camps this year. That is why we're inviting our unashamed listeners to join us in bringing Christ centered discipleship to 3,000 kids this summer through 30 Bible camps around the world. Unashamed listeners have already raised $11,000, but we still need raise $19,000 to reach our goal. Just $1,000 sponsors a full five day camp for 100 kids. I mean, that's insane. Any amount you donate will help sponsor a day at camp for 200 bucks or send 10 kids to camp for 100 bucks. Go to tomorrowclubs.org 30camps or simply text 30camps to 44321 to give. Now that's tomorrowclubs.org 30cands or text 30camps to 44321.

[Jase Robertson]

So my point is, yes, we have. If you want to call it sinful nature, okay, but when you were born, everything was fine or Jesus wouldn't have become a human. And he certainly wouldn't refer to his new body as the same word as flesh and bones. As you see, I have. Well, we know that flesh was different because it had been changed, because it's 2000 years later, he's still alive with it. So I'm just saying there's other factors involved that's going to lead you to committing sins. That's why Galatians 5:19 says the acts of the sinful nature are obvious. Focus on the acts and obvious and I think it'll keep you from misreading what's happening here in John 9, which is they were assuming, oh, is this guy sinful from birth? Or even we use the one in David. I was kind of piggybacking to that because that's where we left off.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, and I've always used that verse. The acts of sinful nature or the flesh are obvious as a way to combat sometimes when people like to do what I call detective work of sin building, where you connect A to B to C to come up with D to find out this brother's in a sinful situation. It's like, you know, you're overthinking it too much. You know, you get into these things with the church police instead of just. They're pretty obvious. You can just read them. You know, they're just there. And, you know, we've. We. You can characterize a life by that. So you don't have to. You don't have to make. Build cases for sin.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, one of the things I told you about my son calling me the other night was excited about Bible study because I've taught him, I was like, some words, when you read the Bible, you think they mean the same thing, that another word that could be translated into English, the same. You just assume they're all the same. And so I showed him. I've done it many times on the podcast here. You can look those up on the Bible Hub Commentary Greek Lexicon, and it'll show you every place where that word is mentioned in the New Testament. You can do the same thing for the Old Testament using the Hebrew lexicon. And it's so shocking sometimes where words are translated into English and it's like, oh, that's not the same word. And I did one, one time on here about the word nature. So the time it's used in Ephesians 3. What is that? Ephesians 2, 3. Well, it's a different word from that word sinful nature that's translated in English. This one's only mentioned, like, I think it's a. A few times over a dozen. But it's this. I wanted to give you this same context of what we're talking about. And you remember it's in Ephesians when he says, as for you, you were dead this verse one in your transgressions and sins. So just think the acts of the sinful nature. But he describes this. You were dead in your transgressions and sins in which you used to live. When you follow the ways of this world and the ruler of the kingdom, the air, the spirit, who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

[Phil Robertson]

Which we quoted that talking about.

[Jase Robertson]

We did. There are these celestial beings, and I'm using that plural, that didn't want to do their vocation for God in which they were created. For. And we don't know all the details of what they're supposed to be doing, but we know when they lose that they are hurled to the earth and became problems for humans. But then it kind of describes what this sinful life was. It says all of us lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature. Well, there's that flesh. So that one is the same one that Galatians 5. But it's also the same word that is used to describe Jesus becoming flesh and post resurrection. So, and you tend to think, what's your point? Well, you Remember in Hebrews 4 where Jesus said he was tempted but was without sin. So he was in the body. He was tempted, but he did not sin. He was a human. It was not sinful to become human is my statement that I want to make. But then I want to show you how this works. So it says we gratify the cravings of our sinful nature. And I would argue that these are all acts that we acted on the cravings to go to Galatians 5, 19. But then watch what it says. Like the rest, we were by nature. Well, you would assume that's the same word as the sinful nature, but it's not. You say, well, how do you know? Because I looked it up in the Greek lexicon. It's different word means something totally different. And here that word nature is like association. So, and I'll give you an example. I did this on a podcast probably 100 podcasts ago. So when you look at 2 Peter 1, look. His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, it's in verse four. Keep reading.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay. By his own glory and goodness, through these he's given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature. Well, this is the same word. Is that nature? And so you say, what is it? Well, it's association. If you're out there following the spirit of the evil One, then you are by nature that association going to be. What's the second part of that verse? Because of. I mean, verse three of Ephesians 2, like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. Well, what's going to happen if you're participating with.

[Zach Dasher]

It's like the natural consequences.

[Jase Robertson]

It's the natural consequences. But. But what I'm saying is people who assume that that's the first verse, people that assume that it's the first phrase say, oh, well, you were born by nature to be an object of wrath. Well, I got a problem with that, you see, and now I know why. Because I'm like. When you look at what the word means, you're like, oh, wait, that's a different word. It's like, whatever your association, whatever who you're in bed with, the Evil one or God Almighty. Well, you participate in the divine nature. If you've surrendered to God. And that's what this whole thing is about in Ephesians 2 is these two kingdoms, these two entities, one of them's lying, one of them is telling the truth, and you're going to get the consequences from whichever one you're in.

[Phil Robertson]

Right. It'd be like saying if you were a hothead by nature, you're going to have a hard time getting along with people.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, because you're a hothead, it's not because you were just born and you can't get along with people. So that's kind of what you're talking about, which is.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I think it relates to John 9, because this problem about trying to blame somebody from birth or making them sinful at birth, I just think that's a dangerous.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I think it's really interesting. And I'm fixing to read this text, so we'll kind of read the whole story. Because where this story goes proves your point, Jace. Because what starts out as something that everybody should have been super happy about because the work of God was displayed, but instead it became the biggest investigation you've ever seen, and for a lot of different reasons. So let me read the text and then we'll go back and kind of break down some of the stuff, because there's a lot of stuff in here. We spent a couple of podcasts just talking about. People get so many things wrong out of this story. So verse one, as he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. And I told you why. I think that thread is linked in why John put the story here. His disciples asked him, rabbi, who sinned? This man or his parents, that he was born blind. And so they believed in this divine retribution we've been talking about. Jesus says neither did this man nor his parents sin to Jesus, but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world. Which we will talk more about that when we come back. Having said this, he Spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva and put it on the man's eyes. Go, he told him, wash in the pool of Siloam. That word means sent siloam. So the man went and washed and came home. Seeing so he was cured. His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, isn't this the same man who used to sit and beg? Some claimed that he was. Others said, no, he only looks like him. But he himself insisted, I am the man. So a little bit of an identity question here. How then were your eyes open? They demanded, he replied, the man they called Jesus made some mud, put it on my eyes, he told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see. Where is this man? They asked him. I don't know, he said. So they brought him to the Pharisees. They brought to the Pharisees the man who had been blind. So now this is where the investigation started. Now, the day on which Jesus had opened, I mean, had made the mud and opened the man's eyes was a Sabbath. Here we go again.

[Zach Dasher]

Don't mess around with the Sabbath.

[Phil Robertson]

Got a Sabbath problem. Therefore, the Pharisees, who also asked him how he had received his sight. He put mud on my eyes, the man said, and I washed. Now I can see. Some of the Pharisees said, well, this man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath. I can't help but laugh because, like, yeah, he healed the guy, but, you know. But others asked, how can a sinner do such miraculous signs? So they were divided. Finally, they turned again to the blind man and said, what have you to say about it? It was your eyes he opened. The man replied, he is a prophet. The Jews still did not believe that he had been blind. They even questioned that and had received his sight until they sent for the man's parents. So watch this, how this story unfolds. Is this your son? They asked. Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it now that he can see? We know he is our son, the parents answered, and we know he was born blind. But how he can see or who opened his eyes, we don't know. Ask him. He is of age. He will speak for himself. So they punted. His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews. For already the Jews had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ or the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. Now we're getting down to the heart of it. That was why his parents said he is of age. Ask him. Just think about how sad that is. A second time, they summoned the man who had been blind. So we're going back to this guy. Give glory to God, they say, which is interesting. It means tell us the truth. We know this man is a sinner. And he replied, whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know, I was blind, but now I see.

[Zach Dasher]

That's a mic drop moment.

[Phil Robertson]

That's a bumper sticker. So I jokingly say when I go out and speak, because there's a lot less of me now that PhD weight loss wanted to have some guinea pigs from the Unashamed podcast and I was the fattest pig. So I got the gig and it's been great. 80% of dropping fat weight comes from what you eat. And I found the perfect person to help me and that's Dr. Ashley Lucas. She's the founder of Ph.D. weight Loss. She's been on our podcast. She's a registered dietitian with a PhD in sports nutrition and chronic disease. And I believe this gives her unique insight into helping you understand how your body can burn fat. That's why thousands of clients, including me, have had success. The program teaches you what to eat, it teaches when to eat, and it works on your relationship with food so that you can take take weight off for life. If you're watching this on YouTube, here's the picture of me at the beginning. Here I am some 23 weeks later, over 60 pounds down. No gimmicks, no pills, no injections, no awful side effects. And I love that. I'm not hungry. It's a high protein diet. It's low on carbs. They help you by providing 80% of your weekly food at no extra cost. So check these guys out. Job, join me on my weight loss journey. Schedule your one on one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900 or you can visit myphdweightloss.com that's 864-644-1900. Tell them Al Roberson sent you.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, the guy there you think about like when you read that, I was thinking of that Charles Spurgeon quote. He said something like that. The gospel. And I love apologetics, which is defending the claims of the Bible.

[Phil Robertson]

It's always been one of your best seasons.

[Zach Dasher]

I thought it's been one of my best seasons, Jason, my apologetic season. I love that. But he's. I love defending the truths of the gospel. Right? But he said the gospel.

[Jase Robertson]

The seasons close. They close off yeah, that's a good thing.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, what do you say?

[Zach Dasher]

He said that the gospel. I'm paraphrasing and probably going to get it somewhat wrong, but the gospel does not need to be defended.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

It is a caged lion that needs to be unleashed.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, that's good.

[Zach Dasher]

And I. I love that because you see here, like, this man has no apologetic. He has no. He's not carrying the water for Jesus. I mean, he's like, I don't. I don't. Here's what I know. I was blind. Now I see.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, deal with it. Deal with it.

[Jase Robertson]

But I think what's crazy, though, is if you read this from a different perspective, he didn't even believe in him. You know, this is a strange miracle because he just heals him. And he's like. Even the terminology there, they're like, who healed you? What was the first thing he said.

[Phil Robertson]

Is like, they call him the man they call Jesus.

[Jase Robertson]

The man they call Jesus. Well, that's not very personalized there.

[Phil Robertson]

No.

[Jase Robertson]

So that's why I think this evolves as it comes along.

[Phil Robertson]

Then he says, you're right. Then he says, a prophet. Well, he's got to. He's thinking he's got to be something.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, like, he's not a believer. But the belief doesn't happen until verse.

[Phil Robertson]

35, until we get down to the true Jesus.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And I think it's important to know how this process worked, because when Jesus heard. Because they're persecuting him. Well, he's the first persecuted follower of Jesus. And he wasn't even following. He was just a result of Jesus.

[Zach Dasher]

But his honesty is overwhelming here because he's. He. He literally doesn't have an agenda, like agenda list.

[Jase Robertson]

I came to the same conclusion. That's why he was just telling the truth.

[Zach Dasher]

There's no Christianese language. He's like seasons.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, he was.

[Phil Robertson]

His parents even bail. They were like, yeah, you know. Yes, he was born blind, but, you know, that's all we got. You'll have to ask.

[Jase Robertson]

But they were in fear, you know.

[Phil Robertson]

Of being persecuted, losing their spot.

[Jase Robertson]

So I think this last. That's the paragraph is important because when he said. When he heard that. When Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, which I love this part because remember what we said? Jesus is showing the character of God. He was concerned about that because now this guy, he healed him, he's happy, but everybody should be happy. There's a guy that can cure blindness with some mud, which I think people have always asked, what's the deal with spitting. People don't like talking about this. You know, they do these, you know, Christianese jokes. You know, it's for baseball players. Yeah, they're spitting all over the way. Don't spit on the ground. But I love this because somebody who was born with redneck tendencies, you know, and I'm like, he did a miracle by spitting on the ground. Because people think that that's not socially acceptable. You know. Now in Louisiana, we don't have that problem. But if you go to New York, you know, and spit on the sidewalk or whatever, they're like, what are you doing? I'm looking around. Everybody's.

[Phil Robertson]

But even in Louisiana, if you spit on me, we got a problem.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, if you spit on me, we got a problem. But I'm saying the fact that he did that, which is so socially awkward. Awkward. And I think it's. It's a picture back to creation. I mean, he made man out of dust. So he's making. Yeah, yeah, we're mud. So he's basically taking the ground with his spit, which he's. His spit is coming from another place. And literally, you know, he. He came from heaven and he. He regenerated. I don't know a better word. He made that. Right. Which shows you. I think it's a glimpse into this new humanity and this new creation, that this is driving this whole train, that everything's going to be made right, everything wrong.

[Phil Robertson]

To see it. One time we went on a medical mission trip to Mexico, and one of our guys is the eye doctor that went with us. And there were these people that came in out of the hills. And I mean, they just. You talk about remote, and this super old man was there, and we had these glasses, and they're trying to match them. Obviously, you know, it's not like it is in America where you just, you know, they test your eyes. And so he tried on these glasses and for the first time could see clearly. And he just started weeping.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And I just remember us sitting there thinking. I mean, we just watched it in his mind. That was a miracle. I mean, our minds.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, you see that. Have you seen the ones with the cochlear implants for the kids? Or even. Even as simple as, like, someone's colorblind and they put on these glasses and can see color for the first time.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, right.

[Zach Dasher]

And they just weep.

[Phil Robertson]

Right. And it just is so touching. So you're right. When you read this, you talking about miss it, which is the whole point.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, that's why I wanted to Read this.

[Phil Robertson]

And hang on before you read it, let me read this little interim part then.

[Zach Dasher]

Can I say something before you do that? The interim part that we're moving to, it is interesting that how they change when the man. When they can't corner the man up, and whether, once it gets to like, okay, he did it. Like, the first is like, did this really happen?

[Phil Robertson]

Was he really blind?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. And he's like, I. I don't know if he's a sinner. I know one thing. I was blind, but now I see. And then, then they moved. The question, well, how did he do it? How did he get it? First it was, when did he do it? On the Sabbath. Then it, did he do it now? I said, well, how did he do it?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, that's. Now we got a process. All right, let me read this. Jason, I want you to read the last. So then they asked him, what did he do to you? How did he open your eyes to your point? He answered, I've told you already, and you do not listen. So not only could they not see, they can't hear. Why do you want to hear it again? Oh, and this line is so good. Do you want to become his disciples, too? Then they hurled insults at him and said, you are this fellow's disciple. We are disciples of Moses. We know that God spoke to Moses. But as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from. And the man says, now that's remarkable. You don't know where he comes from yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners, and he's going back to the original.

[Jase Robertson]

What was the common theme exactly? They had a theme, which is what I tried to address. It was the wrong thing, wrong theme.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, including this guy.

[Zach Dasher]

And also note that when they said that they followed Moses, they're disciples of Moses, and that God had spoken to Moses. The irony is. Just go back one chapter in John 8, the I am passage, like at the burning bush, the one speaking to Moses was the one standing right there.

[Phil Robertson]

He could have said, before Moses was born, I am. So he listens to the. But he listens to the godly man who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing. So he kind of has a bad theology, but he gets to the right point. To this they replied, you were steeped in sin at earth. J's to your point. How dare you lecture us. And then they threw him out. So I wanted to Read that part, because that's. And now he's thrown out. All right.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. So then Jesus heard they thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, do you believe in the Son of Man? I mean, so there's your next question. Yep. In our question. Well, it's a good one.

[Phil Robertson]

It's a good one.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm telling you, take these questions. There's something powerful.

[Phil Robertson]

We get to the end.

[Jase Robertson]

When you single out these questions, even out of context, we get to the.

[Phil Robertson]

End of the book, we're just gonna have those questions.

[Jase Robertson]

You're like, do you believe in the Son of Man? I mean, what. I wouldn't have known how to respond to that. But I do think context is important here. And in the Jewish mindset. Most everyone there had read Daniel. They were familiar with that phrase.

[Phil Robertson]

Zach, One of the blessings of mom being with us is that she knows she. She loves dogs. And we have a lot of community, what I call compound dogs. You know, there's four of them that are around quite frequently. But Roo, which is the first dog we got, she likes to lay in a chair right next to mom so she can reach right over there for that emotional support. And so we like to take care of them.

[Zach Dasher]

You know, most of us live routine lives. Work, home, family, repeat, day in, day out. It doesn't change much. But what about your dog? Whether you notice it or not, your dog is changing. At some point, they are going to start slowing down. Maybe they already are. And dogs are important. They really are a companion for the people that we love and, you know, man's best friend. Well, we can't stop the world from turning, but we can do something about the way that your dog feels as it turns. Rough greens is not a replacement for your dog's food food. It's the live nutrients missing from your dog's food. Your dog has always been there for you, so now it's your turn to be there for your dog.

[Jase Robertson]

I know Rubaby loves a little rough green seasoning on her food.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. Lisa says they get excited about the sound of the bag coming out of the pantry. And you know what she's talked about their healthier skin, shinier coat, more active, energetic, better mobility, improved digestion, the whole. All the things. So fetch a free Jump Start trial bag for your dog today. Just cover shipping. Call them at 214-ROUGH-DOG or go to rough greens.com and use discount code unashamed. That's r u f, f greens.com discount code unashamed. Or call 214-R u f, f D O G rough greens A healthy chains for your changing dog. Ruff, ruff.

[Jase Robertson]

I tried to think of an illustration, but I couldn't think of one. Like in our culture where there was some famous prediction or phrase that everyone knows about, you know, but they immediately thought of that, oh, God is sending a Son of Man. You know, Daniel two, Daniel seven. And so I know that's where his mind went, but he said, who is he, sir? The man asked, which kind of assuming, yeah, I'm familiar, but who is it? Yeah, tell me so that I may believe in him. So that tells you he was familiar with the Daniel 2 and that culture when they heard Son of Man. And maybe we should read Daniel 7. I think it's Daniel 7. What, 14? Yeah. So then Jesus says, you have now seen him. In fact, he is the one speaking with you. Well, now we have a light bulb moment because this liberator of Israel, this king that's coming, who's establishing an everlasting kingdom, the Son of Man riding on the clouds. Oh, that's why I'm healed. Because you got to remember, everybody else was doing an investigation, but if you were the one blind and you didn't have a medical procedure, I don't think spit and, and mud would qualify for a. Anybody's medical procedure that actually could work.

[Phil Robertson]

Even in the first place.

[Jase Robertson]

This is like a home remedy that cured my blindness and I was blind from birth. I mean, come on now.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, no. Would you even try it? I mean, he was so desperate.

[Phil Robertson]

But Jay, about what Jesus told him, think about the power of the moment. He said, he didn't say, you're talking to him. He said, yeah, now you've seen him. Well, this man hadn't seen anything ever.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, exactly. And I was. The reason I brought up the social part of it was, if you're so desperate and you're so miserable because that would. I mean, there's people today that are born blind. And you just realize how when you read this story, how thankful I am that I can see. I mean, can you imagine? But you're not worried about, oh, that's gross, you spit on the ground. Because most people, I would say most people, that if you had a problem and you came to me and it's like, look, I know how to fix this. I'm going to spit on the ground, make some mud, and I'm going to put it on your eye. Most people, they're not going to allow you to do that.

[Phil Robertson]

I'm good. And you wonder, did Jesus go through because it doesn't say, it just said he did it. Was he giving them a play by play?

[Jase Robertson]

When you're a beggar and you just think about his life, desperation is an unexpected.

[Phil Robertson]

Just like you said, he had been ignored his whole life.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, now you tie in the Luke version of the Beatitudes and the, you know, blessed are the broken and the crushed and the poor in spirit and all this desperation. Well, blessed are you. Well, this is. He was in need. And that was the problem with the Pharisees. They got it all figured out. They weren't in need and that's why they couldn't even see it.

[Zach Dasher]

Which is why he says, I have told you already, but you would not listen. And that's the heart of the Pharisee. You see the same thing in Mark 3, by the way, where Jesus also heals on the Sabbath. He heals the man with the withered hand and he puts it in the cloak. And they're like, you can't do that on the Sabbath. And Jesus is like, basically, I am Lord of the Sabbath. But if you look at what. And then at the end of that passage, it talks about the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit. And I think it has a lot to do with the heart of these guys right here is that they're. They're seeing the obvious. And so this man who doesn't have an agenda is just like, he's going kind of where the evidence leads. And the Pharisees are like, Jesus is like, I'm telling you, you're not listening. And at the end of it, they said, well, are we blind? He said, yeah, basically. No, you actually see. And that's why you're guilty, because you do see. And you're putting the fingers in the ear and you're saying, I'm not listening. So Jesus, their problem was not that they weren't receiving the correct information or revelation from who God was. The problem is that they were. They were receiving the revelation and they were rejecting it, which I think is what ultimately is. They're just saying, we're not going to listen to truth. Our own assignment, which I think is.

[Phil Robertson]

The heart of the whole passage, I.

[Jase Robertson]

Think it's more, I mean, they weren't listening to truth, but they also weren't thrilled by Jesus. I mean, they weren't thrilled by this. And so that shows that whatever you're into, which is thrilling you, you're, you know, the little G, God of power, or whatever idolatry you want to make of this from The Pharisees. I mean, I have a little thing I want to do on this for the next podcast because I know we're almost out of time, but because there's an interesting phrase, I don't want to get into it because we're almost out of time. So I'll just. We'll do that next time about the Pharisees mindset, because there's an interesting passage. It's in Luke 7. It came to me now where it said, the Pharisees didn't believe the people who had been baptized by John, they embraced Jesus. But the ones that weren't, he was talking about the Pharisees. He said, the Pharisees. He's like, oh, no. They rejected it because they had just this whole movement. They had distanced themselves because these weren't the right people.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, they were threatened.

[Jase Robertson]

John the Baptist. And they're like, hey, the kingdom is at hand. They say, I think it goes back.

[Zach Dasher]

To what you said. One of y' all said it.

[Jase Robertson]

The.

[Zach Dasher]

The. The beggar had nothing to lose and everything to gain. The Pharisees had nothing to gain and everything to lose in their mind.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

Which is. I think the. The. The way this ends is extremely powerful. I just want to read that last verse.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, we need to read. I left off on 38.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, read the verse.

[Jase Robertson]

So when he says, you've now seen him, in fact he is the one speaking with you. The man said, now just look how where he's come on this one day. Lord, I believe. And he worshiped him. Well, it's like the conversion came way later.

[Zach Dasher]

But the conversion came because he saw him and said, I believe the Pharisees saw him and said, I don't believe. Because Jesus. Point is, you would not be condemned unless you saw. But you see, the problem is. The problem is that you're not blind.

[Phil Robertson]

You did see me and you rejected.

[Zach Dasher]

That's why you're guilty.

[Jase Robertson]

To go on from that. Because then Jesus said, which this is very important, I think, for judgment. I have come into this world so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind. Which you think, well, I thought he didn't come in to condemn the world, but to save it. But part of that light shining is judgment because it's revealing your heart. It's like this guy's heart said, oh, but then it's also judgment because the Pharisees heart. Hearts were revealed and it wasn't God. They were not.

[Phil Robertson]

It's back to choice.

[Jase Robertson]

So some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, what? Are we blind, too? And and to Zach's point, Jesus said, if you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin. But now you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, that's so good.

[Jase Robertson]

You're not going to be able to see without Jesus.

[Phil Robertson]

That's so good. But we're out of time.

[Zach Dasher]

You know what we got through an entire chapter of the Bible.

[Phil Robertson]

We read a Bible. We read a chapter.

[Jase Robertson]

We must revisit it, though, at the next podcast.

[Phil Robertson]

There's no longer how long we'll stay here. We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.