Ep 1120 | Jase Drops an Uncomfortably PG-13 Line & the Room Erupts

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Episode: Ep 1120 | Jase Drops an Uncomfortably PG-13 Line on Some Teens & the Room Erupts
Release Date: July 3, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 1120 of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family," host Jace Robertson shares a compelling and candid account of his recent experience speaking to a group of teenagers at Camp Chioka. Joined by Phil Robertson and Zach Dasher, the Robertson family delves deep into discussions about faith, scripture, and personal growth, offering listeners a rich tapestry of insights and heartfelt reflections.

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Jace's Speaking Engagement with Teens

Facing Challenges with Youth Engagement

Jace details his attempt to connect with a young audience during a checkup session at Camp Chioka, focusing on hunting, fishing, and introducing them to Jesus. The session began positively, with Jace sharing personal stories and quoting scripture to emphasize his excitement about following Christ.

• Jace Robertson [00:48]: “We stayed in London.”
  (Promoting the Hey Jack travel voucher)

However, as the conversation shifted to more sensitive topics like sex and lifestyle, the atmosphere changed dramatically. The teens began to giggle and disrupt the session, making it difficult for Jace to maintain control and convey his message effectively.

• Phil Robertson [13:19]: “I mean, I didn't know what else to do. I was like, I've never had an audience, but it worked.”
  (Reflecting on the unexpected response from the teens)

Spiritual Warfare and Overcoming Disruptions

Interpreting the disruptions as a form of spiritual resistance, Jace intensified his message, emphasizing the resurrection and the profound impact of following Jesus. This approach eventually drew the audience's attention back, culminating in an engaging duck call demonstration that brought a positive end to the session.

• Phil Robertson [13:23]: “There was. You could earn a pin drop for the next 30 minutes.”
  (Describing the intensity of the crowd's reaction)

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Deep Dive into Scripture: "I Am" Statements

Exploring the Depth of Jesus' Identity

The conversation transitions to an in-depth exploration of Jesus' "I am" statements found throughout the Gospels, particularly focusing on John 11:25 where Jesus declares, “I am the resurrection and the life.” Zach Dasher highlights the significance of Jesus' resurrection as a pivotal moment that underscores the necessity of death preceding resurrection.

• Zach Dasher [01:22]: “What about you? So we're back. The Unashamed podcast.”
  (Introducing the podcast format)

Phil Robertson adds to the discussion by connecting these "I am" statements to the broader narrative of Jesus' authority and divinity, referencing multiple scriptures to illustrate how Jesus positions Himself at the center of both heaven and earth.

• Phil Robertson [19:26]: “I am the door and I am the shepherd.”
  (Referencing John 10)

Jesus as the Central Figure

The trio elaborates on Jesus' dual role as both the gate and the shepherd, emphasizing that His presence and authority offer a way to an abundant life. They contrast this with the deceptive nature of false leaders, underscoring the importance of recognizing and following Jesus authentically.

• Jace Robertson [17:16]: “He is the central figure, which is what you see in John chapter 10.”
  (Highlighting Jesus' role in scripture)

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Personal Reflections: Trusting in Jesus Amidst Challenges

Understanding Sin and Trust

The discussion naturally segues into personal struggles with sin and the challenges of trusting in Jesus' goodness and power. Phil and Zach share their insights on why individuals might struggle to trust God, linking it to experiences of imperfection and the pervasive nature of sin.

• Phil Robertson [32:06]: “Or I don't trust you. I don't trust.”
  (Emphasizing the trust deficit)

Zach Dasher relates this to everyday experiences, acknowledging that while individuals recognize Jesus' power, their own flaws often hinder complete trust in His plan and goodness.

• Zach Dasher [33:35]: “We know that we are not good.”
  (Discussing the human struggle with sin)

Role of the Holy Spirit and Resurrection in Daily Life

The conversation highlights the transformative power of the Holy Spirit in believers' lives, enabling daily resurrection over personal struggles and fostering a deeper relationship with Christ.

• Zach Dasher [55:38]: “Jesus resurrects daily elements of our lives.”
  (Explaining the role of the Holy Spirit)

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Balancing Parenting and Faith

Guiding the Next Generation

Jace shares heartfelt anecdotes about parenting, emphasizing the importance of guiding children with patience and understanding. He reflects on the complexities of raising teens, recognizing that while immediate reactions may be challenging, the long-term impact of faith-based guidance is profound.

• Jace Robertson [42:14]: “You're leading your children and you're trying to form them into a particular kind of person.”
  (Discussing parenting challenges)

Phil and Zach add their perspectives, illustrating how their experiences with their children reinforce the podcast's broader themes of faith, resilience, and the continuous journey toward a life imbued with Christ.

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Conclusion: Embracing an Abundant Life Through Christ

The episode wraps up with a powerful affirmation of embracing an abundant life through Jesus Christ. The Robertson family reiterates the central message that true fulfillment and transformation come from a deep, trusting relationship with Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit.

• Jace Robertson [44:18]: “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life.”
  (Citing 2 Peter 1)

Phil Robertson concludes by tying back to earlier discussions, affirming the necessity of recognizing Jesus' authority and the ongoing process of spiritual growth and transformation.

• Phil Robertson [55:02]: “Because men do not believe in me in regard to sin.”
  (Summarizing the core message)

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Notable Quotes

• Phil Robertson [00:31]: “I am unashamed.”

• Phil Robertson [08:19]: “Remember in John 4 where he has this encounter with a Samaritan woman and he declares, 'I who speak to you, am he.'”

• Jace Robertson [16:12]: “It's the Daniel 7 picture. And so when you read that, it's one of the reasons why, when we get to Mark 13...”

• Zach Dasher [26:53]: “Jesus resurrects way more than bodies.”

• Phil Robertson [32:06]: “Or I don't trust you. I don't trust.”

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Final Thoughts

Episode 1120 of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family" offers a profound exploration of faith, scripture, and personal growth. Through relatable stories and theological discussions, the Robertson family invites listeners to deepen their understanding of Jesus' teachings and to embrace an abundant life rooted in trust and obedience to Christ.

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Note: The summary intentionally omits advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the user's instructions.

Transcript

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[Phil Robertson]

I am unashamed.

[Jace Robertson]

What about you? So we're back. The Unashamed podcast. Jill, you're still in the studio, Our studio. Jace is by himself.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, we got Missy for one because Al is out of pocket.

[Jace Robertson]

So we'll pray for Al and Lisa. They're getting a checkup down in New Orleans with Lisa's breast cancer surgery and all that stuff that revolved around that. So it's just a routine checkup. So pray, pray, pray for good results for those guys. We'll find out from them. I'm sure everything went well because we haven't heard anything, but Al's out and he'll be back, hopefully on the next podcast. I want to remind everybody real quick, this is the last day to sign [e-mail] to enter into the $500 travel voucher giveaway. So make sure you guys are doing that. Jason, Missy, they've already bought stuff on there. We stayed in London.

[Zach Dasher]

Let's look somewhere else.

[Jace Robertson]

I'm telling you. I'm telling you guys.

[Zach Dasher]

Where are we going next?

[Jace Robertson]

You could save some legitimate money. You get some real cash back in your. In your [e-mail] so go sign up today and you guys check it out. So we're. We're holding down the fort and we got a kind of a detour to John 11 last time. That was.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was good. I. I'd love to say one more thing about John 11, though. I know we're in John 10, we're kind of going back, but there was something about John 11 that I just really wanted to hit on because for obvious reasons is when he says in verse 25 of John 11, he says, I am the resurrection and the life. And I think about that whole scene and how he waited two days and all of the things which I know you guys are going to talk about when you actually get there. But I just want to say this one thing because I thought it was so pretty that for there to be a resurrection, there has to be a death. So Lazarus had to die. For Jesus to resurrect him. And yes, he could have healed him like he had many times before, but Jesus wanted him to die because he wanted to resurrect him from the dead. And y' all can expound on that.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, I say, Jason, we watched a movie last night that ties into this called Death of a Unicorn. Have you heard of it?

[Phil Robertson]

I didn't think there were actually unicorns.

[Jace Robertson]

No, there's not. It's the worst movie.

[Zach Dasher]

Zach. Zach is no longer allowed to pick movies in our house.

[Jace Robertson]

But the unicorn res was raised from the dead in the end, the movie, he was raised from the dead. I thought about your take on Jesus. Jason says that Hollywood. All the stories in Hollywood are just ripoffs of the Bible.

[Phil Robertson]

No, they are. And they're usually just based on a lie.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

I'm not going to mention any specifically, but Mission Impossible comes to mind if you can go do it. Was it.

[Zach Dasher]

I feel like y' all need to have Tom Cruise on the Unashamed podcast. Would he come on the Unashamed podcast?

[Phil Robertson]

I think he might send him a. Send him a text. How do you. How do you.

[Jace Robertson]

He is certainly invited. We can talk about Scientology, whatever. We're open to have any discussion you want to have.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I believe God is the ultimate scientist.

[Jace Robertson]

No question about it.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

But I do love. But I do love what Jill said, though, about this idea of death, like, necessarily preceding resurrection. It is kind of a. And it's emblematic, too, of what Jesus is going to ultimately do in the Book of John. He's headed to his death.

[Zach Dasher]

Right. Which is why he says, I am the resurrection. I am.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, what's interesting. So I spoke last night at out of camp. They're having sportsman's week, and I've spoken there before. They do this every year, so. And so.

[Jace Robertson]

Defining what? So it's at Camp Chioka, all the kids that come in. It's geared around hunting, fishing.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, the outdoors.

[Jace Robertson]

Anything outdoors.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. And all these. They're 13 to 18 year olds. There was probably 100 of them there. I'm just guessing, but last night was the first time. I don't know if I've ever had this happen before. So when I got up to start speaking, I basically was kind of rambled on about the LSU encounter because I was making a point because I didn't have any notes. And I'm like, I was going to do a duck call demonstration and then try introduce them to Jesus. And I like this age group. So they asked me to come. So I Said, yes. So I was going to make a point just off the top of my head. About as excited as I was that LSU won the national championship in baseball and that I was there to see it, which is just awesome. And as excited as I am to be able to hunt and fish, and I told like a couple duck hunting stories, you know, it's just excitement. I can't be any more excited. Just giddy, like, as excited. All that is, I said, that pales in comparison to the excitement I have over following Jesus Christ, who was raised from the dead. And I quoted, I was going to read Matthew 28, 18:20, but then at this stage of my life, I need glasses to read the Bible. And I realized I didn't have my glasses. So I just quoted it. And luckily I remembered it. But what's fascinating that you bring that up on the I am immediately, because this wasn't planned, is when I quoted that verse and where Jesus said, all authority on heaven and on earth has been given to me. And then I paused because I said, if you hadn't figured this out, you're on the earth and that's where humans live. I was like, but heaven is. Is where God lives. But all authority has been given to this guy. So how. What kind of human would make that statement? And I said, either he's a maniac or crazy to say all authority in God's space and on man's space has been given to me. I said, he's either a maniac or a crazy, or he had just come back from the dead. And so. But as I started talking and I finished reading the verse to finish your point about I am, because it says, therefore, go make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. I stopped and said, that's who I am. I'm a disciple of Jesus. I'm not a LSU baseball fan. I'm not a duck hunter, I'm not a preacher. I'm not a great speaker. I was going through the list. I said, if you ask me who I am in one blurb, I'm following Jesus the King because he was raised from the dead. But then he also says at the end of that, he says, and surely I am with you always to the very end of the age. And the point I'm making is there's seven famous I am statements that we all are familiar with. We actually did a series a couple years ago somewhere in the podcast archives. But the more I'm doing this podcast because we're Reading the Bible so much, I've realized that Jesus made those statements all over the place, but it's done in a sentence format that doesn't particularly highlight the I am statement.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Remember in John 4 where he has this encounter with a Samaritan woman and he gets to the end. Let me find verse 26. Because the woman had said in verse 25, I know that the Messiah called Christ, John, put in parentheses, is coming, and when he comes, he'll explain everything to us. Well, look what his response was. Jesus declared, I who speak to you, am he. Well, you see the I am in there, kind of like the Matthew 28. He wasn't just promising, you know, his presence, he threw in that I am. But that's all over the place in the Gospels. You just don't really notice it. So I asked that crowd last night and at some point in the lesson, because after I quoted that verse, I started just talking about why that I try to do what's right. Because here's these 13, 18 year olds. I asked if there were any 14 year olds in the audience and about five of them raised their hand. So I said, well, when I was your age, that's when I gave my life to Jesus. So I said, that's why I'm here, because I wanted to introduce this one who claimed to be God and tell you about what he did. You know, God became a man. And so I told kind of the stories about how I met my wife. And well, when I started talking about my kind of my Jesus dating ministry, which is how I met my wife, I'd give him the speech or whatever, and I've shared that before. And I said I did that as a way to stay pure before I got married. So when I started talking about sex, two disruptions happened in the crowd. They got nervous, they were giggling, laughing, but they to a point where it was so loud that I couldn't hear myself over them. I didn't know what was going on. And so even the counselors that were there kept shushing the crowd because they were just being loud, but it just kept continuing. Well, then I thought, well, I guess this is some kind of spiritual warfare. So I just said, well, I introduced the resurrection. I got loud. I went, I kind of went Phil style. I said, I just introduced you to the one who came back from the dead. I said, all of a sudden I started talking about sex and lifestyle. And I said, evidently some guilty consciences have been had, a light shone on them and you're incapable of paying attention. Because they were getting louder giggling. It just wouldn't stop.

[Jace Robertson]

So you're going old school.

[Phil Robertson]

And so I got louder and louder and finally I said, I'll tell you this, there will be nothing to giggle about right before your death happens, when you're fixing to die, it's imminent. And then it got caught.

[Jace Robertson]

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[Missy Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

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[Jace Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. I mean, I. I didn't know what else to do. I was like, I've never had an audience, but it worked.

[Jace Robertson]

Groups of people, how they responded.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, it worked. There was. You could earn a pin drop for the next 30 minutes. I was only going to go 20 minutes, but after that I thought, let me just go in detail about who Jesus is. And, well, so I got lathered up. I mean, I really got lathered up because I thought it was one of the most disrespectful thing. I know they're 13 to 18 year olds, but I'd never had that happen.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Have you?

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah, I've been in some difficult, tough crowd situations before. It's hard.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah. Jill's been a few as well, where it's hard to garner their attention.

[Zach Dasher]

It's almost like you can feel a. A direct block. There is a block. Yeah, there. There's.

[Jace Robertson]

What?

[Zach Dasher]

It felt like some, you know.

[Jace Robertson]

Yes, it's. It is. It is interesting. I've been in those situations before, and sometimes it's been those. I walk out and think, man, that was a dumb dumpster fire. And then it's weird that when I think that almost always somebody will come up to me or I'll hear from someone that it penetrated in some particular way. So you just never know. But I was thinking.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I did think it was interesting, Zach, that after the message, they said, if anybody, you know, we did a little autograph signing because you got a man from their perspective, they thought I was going to talk about duck calls, duck calls and fishing, which I did at the end. And I said, as a reward for y' all gathering yourself and acting like responsible human beings, yeah, I will do my duck call demonstration, which I did. I taught them how to blow a duck call, and they did the autograph thing and everybody there lined up, even the ones that were causing some disruption. But I was going to say one other thing, Jill, about your point about. I am. I actually asked them at some point in there. I said, what were the two phrases? Because we had studied this on a podcast a couple weeks ago that Jesus referred to himself as predominantly. And I was shocked. The first response. I mean, this kid couldn't have been more than 13 or 14. And he said, the Son of man and the Son of God. And I said, well, you got one of them right. And technically you're right about being the Son of God because he was showing that he was the Son of God. But my question was, what did he refer to himself as. And the Son of man was one phrase. And the other, which took five minutes longer because I had every other answer under the sun. And finally a young girl said, I am. And I said, that's it. And just look it up. I didn't read that somewhere. I mean, that's just from.

[Jace Robertson]

But most people won't answer that because I asked that same question in a gathering the other night, and no one said the Son of Man. And they said a lot of other things.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I was shocked. This kid figured it out.

[Jace Robertson]

But it's more the note that it is the predominant way that Jesus, that.

[Zach Dasher]

He refers to himself.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, that's how he identifies himself over a hundred times. I think it's in the gospel.

[Jace Robertson]

I think it's 80 times.

[Phil Robertson]

You said it was 80, but mine said 100, so I'd have to go. But I think maybe they were weeding out the same verses, like from Matthew to John, where they.

[Jace Robertson]

Either way, it's. It is how he prefers to identify himself. And I think it has everything to do with when you had mentioned the Great Commission or, you know, when Jesus said, all authority on heaven and earth has been given to me. Now therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and I will be with you to the end of the age. That whole moment when Jesus is claiming to have all authority, but he doesn't say I have all authority. He says it's been given to me. So that is a direct tie. That's why. So you think about Jesus whole ministry, he refers himself as the Son of Man, which is the Daniel 7 figure, which we've said over and over again.

[Phil Robertson]

We have. But, Zach, it's also the Genesis 3:15 figure.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

[Phil Robertson]

He said. Yeah. After the sin, what did God say? He said from this woman and her offspring. Well, what. What is that? That is a Son of man reference. That whoever this son of this offspring would come up, the evil one and his offspring will bruise his heel, but he will crush your head.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah, yeah. I think the point is, though, it's not just that he's referencing the humanity of Christ. The Son of Man figure is the humanity of Christ with all authority and dominion and power.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, I agree.

[Jace Robertson]

So that's the Daniel 7 picture. And so when you read that, it's one of the reasons why, when we get to mark 13 and we read about the Olivet discourse, where Jesus is basically telling everybody, you know, this temple structure is coming down, we've made the case on this podcast. It's not. That is not a passage indicative of the end times. It's a passage indicative of the end of temple error. And. And one of the reasons why we think that reference the Son of Man in there, that he'll be coming on, on the clouds. That's. That's Christ going before the ancient of days to receive authority, dominion and power, which he says he has after his resurrection at the end of Matthew, Matthew 28. So we know whatever is happening in the Daniel 7 passage or when that's going to happen, we know based on what Jesus said in Matthew 28, that it had happened before that moment, because Jesus had claimed in that moment that he had the authority, that he had the dominion. He'd already received it. So the encounter of the Son of Man going before the ancient of days to receive the kingdom, it had to have already taken place before Christ addresses his disciples to go and make disciples of the nations, as I think that's super important. And another thing I would add is as Jill's statements on the I am the seven of them. Two of them are actually in the chapter that we're in right now, which is John 10. Two of those, two of those I am statements.

[Phil Robertson]

I am the door and I am the shepherd.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jace Robertson]

Which is weird, right? Because you think, which one are you? Because he's like, you got to go through the gate. I'm the door to the gate. Well, who's going to guide you through the shepherd? Why am the shepherd? You know what that makes me think of? Makes me think of the book of Hebrews. Because in the book of Hebrews, it's like Christ claims to be every part of the whole system. Like, I'm the temple, I'm the cornerstone of the temple. I'm the ultimate sacrifice, which happens in the temple. And I'm the high priest who is the one who administrating the ultimate sacrifice. He's high priest, he's the sacrifice. He's the temple structure itself. And so you start to get this picture that is Christ the center of the whole thing.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, he's. That's why I brought up in Revelation where it says he's as the Lamb. He saw this vision in Revelation chapter 5, and it said every other being there, which it had the 24 elders, which was kind of representative of humanity. And then you have the celestial beings, the cherubim, they all, it says, encircled the Lamb. And I made the point, if he's the center of heaven, shouldn't he be the center of earth. And, you know, shouldn't he be the center of the Bible? It's God revealing himself in human form, which is a very.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, it's that same story of, yes, I'm raising you to life in eternity, but I'm raising you to life in the here, in the now, today too.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly.

[Zach Dasher]

This is just not to go back to John 11, but to make that point. When Martha says, yes, I know he'll be raised up on the last day, Jesus is thinking, no, I'm raising him up this day. Like, yes, he'll be raised up on the last day, but I'm raising him up this day. And that's his message over and over and over. Even in John 10, where we're at, where he's talking about, the sheep know his voice and they follow him because they know him. It's into this life in the here and now, not just one day.

[Jace Robertson]

Because if this life didn't matter and the world's going to hell in a handbasket, and I'm in this meat suit that I need to be delivered from one day, then why in the world did Jesus weep in John 11? Why would he weep? He wept because he's testifying that this earthly creation that he made matters, that our bodies matter now. Yes. I mean, it's not the full fruition of it, which is the second Coming will be that, but I think he's identifying himself as the central figure, which is what you see in John chapter 10. Because in John 10, the question is like, you know, like in postmodern culture, which is like relativistic. The relativistic world. Everything's relative. Truth is relative. All roads lead to God. There's many, many ways. But Jesus doesn't seem to believe that and teach that because he's actually establishing himself as the only way. He says, truly, truly, I say to you, this is in John 10:1, that he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. So what he's saying is, you're not going to get. If you think that you're going to get into the presence of God, you're going to actually get into the inner life of God through some other way. You're going to climb over the gate. He's like, no, no, no, you're actually a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep to him. The gatekeeper opens, say, it wasn't supposed to get this bad. You were on top of your bills. Then inflation hit. Grocery prices went through through the roof. In fact, prices right now are up 26% from just a few years ago. 26%. That's not your fault. Don't worry. We've got a smarter, faster, way easier way for you to get out of debt. It's called donewithdebt.com and they're not like other debt companies. They don't push loans on your bankruptcy on you. These guys are great. Done With Debt are legendary negotiators who go head to head with your credit card and your loan companies. They have one goal in mind, to drastically reduce or eliminate your debt altogether. And unlike those other companies, Done With Debt was lightning fast. Most clients see more money in their pocket in just month one. But a word to the wise, hurry, because some of their brilliant debt erasing strategies are time sensitive. Al you struggle with debt in your life, I think you may have even filed bankruptcy. Correct?

[Phil Robertson]

We did.

[Missy Robertson]

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[Jace Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

But I think that goes back to what Jill said, when in order to be raised, you gotta die. And I think that was what he was saying was because in their culture, they would actually, when they'd go to Jerusalem, there would be a gate where you let in the lambs that were going to be sacrificed. And he was like, I am that gate. That doesn't mean as much to us unless you put it in that context. And I mean, read your scholars. That's basically what everyone agrees. Even in John 5. I made this reference in another podcast when he healed the paralytic who had been paralyzed for 38 years. The place where they were at was called the sheep gate. I mean, you think he's doing that by accident? And then five chapter later, he's like, I am the gate for the sheep. And the fact that he was referred to as the Lamb of God, but he's also referred to as the shepherd, really gives you the death and resurrection story in those two symbolic things. But he also told Peter at the end, in John 21, if you look at the Greek, he doesn't say, feed my lambs. The Greek is shepherd, my sheep. Well, how is that possible? Because he's going to give you his Holy Spirit, which you just breathed on him. And all the verses that talk about, you know, we have shepherds of the flock even today in the church, but we do that because we have his power in us. I mean, the bottom line is we're all sheep. Jesus became a sheep, but he ultimately triumphed over death, became a shepherd, gave us his spirit, so that the sheep could become shepherds of not only humanity, but, you know, flocks in the church itself. I mean, that it's a. It's a death resurrection analogy. It's a death what he's doing now.

[Zach Dasher]

It's a death resurrection analogy and also an invitation into really knowing the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. I love when he says, you know, the sheep know my voice. They know his voice. Well, how. How do you know someone? How do you know someone's voice? I mean, I think about if someone tries to prank call, you know, you used to try to prank call people and act like somebody else. Well, like my son Max does that all the time.

[Phil Robertson]

I think it's still going on, Jim.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, it is. I'm like, I know your voice. Like, I know you. I know your voice because I've spent time with you. We live together, we talk like that's how you know someone. And, you know, I think about Jesus as this shepherd, you know, opening up the gate. We come in because we know his voice. It is this invitation into a life with him.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, that's what he said.

[Phil Robertson]

No, I agree. It's a depiction of what Jesus is doing now.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, what does he say here?

[Phil Robertson]

He kind of missed.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah, he has these two different pathways because he's also claiming he's the shepherd, but he's also the gate. And so his sheep will hear his voice and they'll know him and they'll follow him. Right. All who come before me, he says, are thieves and robbers. But the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. But the thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I think that's one of the big things, if you think about, like, when you look at different philosophies or worldviews, I would classify all of them outside of Jesus are death works in the end, it leads to death works because the thief comes to steal. And the only reason why a thief comes is to steal and to kill and destroy. But Jesus juxtaposes that when he says, but I came, that they may have life and have it abundantly. Because I'm the good shepherd. And I love that because when Jill talk about that imitation, it's an invitation into the good life. It's an invitation into the abundant life. It's an invitation into human flourishing. It's all the things that you think you want in life that we try to go chase and other things. It's like, no, it's the ultimate end of that. It's the good life.

[Phil Robertson]

And I think. I think if you look at that word good, the actual Greek word, I did a rabbit hole in this at some point. It's like the word is more. And you can look it up and you'll see what I'm talking about. It's more of a beautiful picture. It's like, I'm the beautiful shepherd. Like, everything that I have set out for you is beautiful. On the other side is lies, deceit, stealing, and ultimately death. Which is why this group of people that. That are. Who are religious leaders that he's actually talking to, they're in cahoots with the evil. And that's why you remember in John 8, when he's like, your father's the devil. These people were claiming to believe in the same God.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

But he's referring here to these religious leaders in the past that have come in and they don't. They're not representing the almighty God in a beautiful way. It's just. Just the opposite. So. And that's why I think it comes back to that, where you started with this truth thing. You know my translation. You were saying, truly, truly. But, you know, the NIV translates it. I tell you the truth, which is mentioned. I did a little look somewhere. I think it's 44 times in the book of John. No, 22 times in John 104 in the New Testament, where truth comes up. And the only point I'm making is when I went to Israel a few years ago, one of the first things I saw, which was fascinating, was a shepherd out on the side of a hill calling, literally, audibly, hollering at the sheep, and those sheep running up to the sound of his voice. And I thought, oh, my goodness, this John 10 has come to life here.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And you know why they're running up to his voice? Because they trust him.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

They know him. There's a trust.

[Jace Robertson]

And you know why they know him and trust him? Because he's been feeding them.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly. And been taking care of them.

[Jace Robertson]

What's the biggest reason? If you had. I mean, if you think about this, what's the biggest hurdle of people submitting to Christ, I would say that they. It's one of two things. One, they don't believe that he's powerful enough to actually take care of them. So maybe they, their view of God is that he's an incompetent shepherd. He doesn't have the ability to actually protect them. Or probably more commonly is. They don't think he's good. They don't actually think that he has their best interest and intentions in mind. And so at least my own battle with sin, when I fall into sin, when I. What I'm essentially believing in the moment is that. That God's prescription for this moment, it's actually not the best course of action for me. And so I think I actually had a better way. Whatever God's told me to do is actually gonna. It's gonna in some way rob me of some kind of pleasure or joy or something. That. That's the lie I believe in. That's just another way of saying, I don't believe that he's good. And that's really kind of what sin is. Sin is just saying, God, I don't really actually believe that you're good, or I don't believe you're. You're powerful enough to do it, but.

[Phil Robertson]

Or I don't trust you. I don't trust.

[Jace Robertson]

But why would you trust him? You wouldn't trust him because you wouldn't believe that he is actually going to do something good for you in return. You wouldn't see the end of it as good. You don't think he's good, but that's the whole point. He's a good shepherd.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, I think we struggle with believing that he's good because we know that we are not good. That's exactly, you know, when I, when I look into the depths of me who, you know, yes, I have good qualities. Yes, there's days when I feel like, man, I was a great mom today, a great wife, but really and truly, I also know my terrible thoughts. I also know and am reminded of the ways and the things about me that man, I wish he would change, or man, I wish he would redeem. And it's so hard for us because we don't have, you know, to wrap our mind around someone that is truly, fully good and does not have the entangled sin problem that we have, that.

[Jace Robertson]

He'S not manipulating you like I view the world with a very cynical lens. And some of it's just because I'm in business and you're dealing with sharks all the time. And you're constantly negotiating and it's like. And it's exhausting, right? But I tend to see people with a skeptical eye. And a big reason why is because I know me. You know what I'm saying? I know what I'm thinking. I'm strategizing.

[Phil Robertson]

You know what it means to be human.

[Jace Robertson]

I know what it means.

[Phil Robertson]

Which is so fascinating that God became a human. And then you have passages like Hebrews 4 that says he was tempted in every way, just as we were, yet was without sin. And so he's not unable to sympathize with our weaknesses. I mean, he understands the weakness part of it, but he never sinned, which is hard to just believe.

[Jace Robertson]

That's a wild statement, though. I mean, he sympathized with us knowing our own manipulation, and he never became manipulative and cynical.

[Phil Robertson]

That's why he's the greatest shepherd, though, because he actually was a sheep. So he understands what we're going through. But he, he didn't do something stupid. You know, that's what we call. We tend to justify the sins, like. Well, just.

[Jace Robertson]

Well, kind of the best way I can think about it is like with my kids. And now we're. I'm not going to say we're three for five yet, because Bear is in the middle. He's 17 or two for five on, I think did a good job. Bear, we're still working on.

[Phil Robertson]

You're gonna, you're beating yourself up here.

[Missy Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

I don't think you can go by that model when you're this. Because now I'm a little older than y'. All, and so some. You know, the. Some of the statements. I mean, look, I'll just go ahead and say it because we had read on the podcast, and he was pretty. Look, I was a proud moment for. Yeah, for me, sitting there just listening to what he has become. Oh, it's incredible because the first probably 25 years of my life, I said, ain't going to happen. You know?

[Jace Robertson]

Hey, look. Hey. I thought y' all failed with Reese. I really did. But he turned out to be an awesome. I mean, he's a.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, people love him. I get random texts from random people all the time who meet Reed that I know.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And they're like, whatever you did, you know, they just love him.

[Zach Dasher]

He's love read, love his wife. Like, just awesome. But I do want to say something, because it's kind of like, not pet peeve. But I. I found myself. I caught myself saying this. This has been years ago, talking about our kids, and I said something like, the verdict's still out. Like, we're still waiting to see. And you just said, I think we've got three of us. And really, I hate that.

[Jace Robertson]

I was kidding.

[Zach Dasher]

I know you were, but I. But I do want to say this.

[Phil Robertson]

I agree. I was uncomfortable, too.

[Lowes Advertiser]

It was a joke.

[Zach Dasher]

No, I know that, but just listen where I'm going. The reason I don't like to even think, well, the verdict's still out is because. Think about what you're saying. I'm waiting to see if my child reaches whatever measure I have of what I would consider to be good enough, you know, holy enough, whatever that is. And the reality is the verdict's still out on every single one of us. Like, we. There is no arrival, because you're called.

[Jace Robertson]

A life of Christ.

[Zach Dasher]

You're called into a life of Christ.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that's what I. That's where I was going. I was going to read a verse that I think sums this up. And it's really the first time I thought about. It was just a couple years ago. Because I thought, huh? Well, I thought aren't. Because we tend to think. Because I think our American culture is all about just getting people in.

[Jace Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And it's almost like then they're forgotten about. It's like, hang on. And you might make it. I mean, it's just terrible. But I mean, I'm not saying it's not important to get people in. I'm sharing Jesus. I was doing it last night to young people and I mean, I was basically giving them an altar call. But when I read this verse, because, you know, a lot of Paul's writings, you sense his frustration with their. I mean, think Corinthians. I mean, he. The fact that he was calling them the church, it was shocking to me with all the things that was going on. I'm like, boy, God's given a lot of grace to these people. I mean, they forgot the gospel. They had to be reminded of it first. Corinthians 15. But in Galatians 4, you see a similar in 19, he says, my dear children, for who I am again in the pains of childbirth. Well, he starts off saying to the church in Galatia. So it's not like he's saying they hadn't got it, but he's like, I'm really in pain over your current condition. Because they were trying to add this nationalistic view of, you know, being a Jew to Christ, saying, yeah, it was like an add on to Christ. You don't add anything onto Christ. But then it says, I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you. And he was acknowledging that there's a process here. And he was being patient with them, even though he was very blunt. Because in the first chapter, he's like, if you preach a gospel other than the one I preached to you, talking about who Jesus is and what he did, let him be. What does it say? Let him be eternally condemned. That's Galatians 1:8. If we are an angel from heaven shall preach the gospel other than the one who preached to you, let him be eternally condemned. So it wasn't like he wasn't being very forceful.

[Jace Robertson]

Oh, that's blunt.

[Phil Robertson]

But there is a process and there is a growth. And I think you plant the seed, you live the life and they respond. But there is a growth process to this life in Christ.

[Jace Robertson]

I think that was the point I was going to make about it before I said the thing I shouldn't have said. But my point was that what helps me relate to this idea of Jesus being the good shepherd is My relationship with my own kids. And so I do have not perfect hindsight, 2020. It's not perfect perfect because I'm still simple, but I do have a better posture and vantage point of understanding the things they're going through simply because I just know more and have more experience and have been through it. So I've had these. I've personally had failures. I've had moral failures in my life. So I can tell my kids don't do that or things that they think are like a really big deal. I'm like, I promise you, you think this is a big deal from your vantage point, but when you look back at this, when you're my age, you won't remember this moment. These things that are capturing your imagination right now will be very, very small in your eyes if you remember them at all. And so you're leading your children and you're trying to form them into a particular kind of person with all of this in mind. So some things might be like, hey, I think it would be better for your life if you don't play video games all the time. And instead I feel like he read a book, you know, like that sounds. But in the moment that's like, oh, you're killing. All my friends were playing video games or whatever.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, it's the same process.

[Zach Dasher]

Fred lets us. Our 14 year old lets us know when every one of his friends get a phone because he still doesn't have a phone. And it's like he thinks that, oh, this is gonna be the magic time when we're like, oh, that kid got a phone. All right, now you get to get.

[Jace Robertson]

Noah just got a phone. His parents got him. Of course, we always go, really well, we ought to get you one right now.

[Zach Dasher]

Let's go right now.

[Jace Robertson]

But I mean, like, he thinks that we're limiting his pleasure in life. What he doesn't realize is, and he will one day, that we're actually, our counsel is actually an invitation for him to enjoy the abundant life. And that's what Christ is inviting us into. He's inviting us into the abundant life. And I wanted to read this scripture because he said, what is the abundant life? And at the end, here's what the abundant life is. This is Second Peter, chapter one, which you mentioned, I think, in the last podcast or two podcasts ago, Jason, when you did your revelation dive. His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life. So, man, I want life. Well, listen to this. His divine power has granted to us all things. All things that pertain to life and godliness through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises. I mean, whatever he's offering, it is absolutely amazing. So that through them, through what the promises, you may become partakers of the divine nature. That's the invitation. The invitation is actually to be partakers of this inner life, this inner nature of God. Having escaped, he goes on to say, the corruption of the world with the sinful desire. So he juxtaposes the good life with being a slave to your own sinful desires and the corruption of the world. He said, I'm calling you out of that. What I'm calling you into is life and life abundant.

[Phil Robertson]

But back to your point. And I want to bring this up. This was. I had this in John 9, and I didn't do it because I went on one of my deep dive rabbit holes and I became confused and bewildered. 90% of the times when I go into the Greek and look at this and try to connect dots and all, it's just, like, awesome. But when I went here, and I want to explain it, because I want to see what your thoughts are, but the reason I'm bringing it up, I took it as a sign. When you said this, when we had the conversation about why people don't trust Jesus and you said the two things, what did you say? You said, they don't believe in him or beautiful.

[Jace Robertson]

He's powerful enough. Or powerful enough, good enough or beautiful enough.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, yeah. So, because I think what led to the illustration of John 10, him saying, I'm the gate and I'm the shepherd, and then there's a thief, and these. He was kind of lumping up the religious leaders who weren't recognizing Jesus as the Son of Man or the Son of God. So in John 9, I'm going to just tell you about my rabbit hole. And I want to bring this up because I really think this is important. When he said, in verse 35, Jesus heard that they had thrown him out. Remember, this is the man born blind. And when he found him, he said, he gave that famous question that we spent three podcasts on. Do you believe in the Son of Man?

[Al Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

Today, we spent three podcasts what that means. Who is he, sir? The man asked, tell me so that I may believe in him. Jesus said, you have now seen him. In fact, he is the one speaking with you. The man said, lord, I believe. And he worshiped him. So, I mean, there's the big moment for his life, the light bulb moment. But Jesus said, for judgment. He brings up the word judgment. I have come into this world because you got to remember, this whole conversation happened because Jesus heard that the religious leaders had thrown this man out. He was being persecuted. For what? For receiving a miracle from the Son of God. And so he said, for judgment. I have come into this world so that the blind will see and that those who see will become blind. So we obviously know who he's talking about. He's talking about people who claim to be godly, who are not trusting in him. So some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, what, are we blind, too? They got the point. They're like, you're talking to us. We're blind. So then he makes this really hard statement to wrap your head around, which is why I did a deep dive on the Greek here. Jesus said, if you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin. But now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. Now, I'm going to stop here and just tell you what my rabbit hole was. This is really funny, because when I saw those two words where you said guilty, that reminded me of John 16. And I'm going to read this. You're going to find this fascinating if you'll just stay with me. When I remembered John 16, verse 7 through 11. Watch this. It says, but I tell you the truth, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the counselor will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes talking about the Holy Spirit, he will convict the world of guilt. Now, I don't know if y' all's your translations have the word guilt in it in these three places. It does, does it?

[Zach Dasher]

Mine is sin.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay, well, here's what's interesting.

[Jace Robertson]

John 16, in John 16, 8, and.

[Phil Robertson]

Then in John 9, 41, the NIV, when I read it, it says, if you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin. But now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. And then John 16:8 says when the. Well, here's what's funny. My deep dive was I looked up this word guilt in the Greek. Well, guess what? It's not in the Greek. It's not there in John 9. 41. So your translation got it right because it's not there. But it confused me because I knew it was here in John 16, and I knew it was here in John 9. And I'm only making the point. That's why it's hard to study the Bible a lot of times because you have so many different translations and people who are translating it, they're thinking, I think this is the context of what he was saying. And they try to find an English word to sum up. And they put it in there, but it's not there. The word guilt, the Greek word for guilt, to be translated in the English word for guilt. It's nowhere in the text. It's not even hinted.

[Jace Robertson]

Mine says guilt in John 9, sin in John 16.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, well, it's not in. It's not in either one. So if you read so what? What in John 9, yours doesn't have it. Jill, will you read what yours says?

[Zach Dasher]

Mine does have guilt in John 9. Yeah. If you were blind, you would have no guilt. Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Let me look up the King James Version.

[Zach Dasher]

I was saying, didn't we just talk about this? From Mark. The same. Very similar, Very similar. But here in John, it's interesting to me that he says, but now that you say we see, as I think in Mark it says, but because you see, your guilt still remains. And here he says, now that you say we see. In other words, these Pharisees claim to know the truth and all of this, but they're missing the truth. No way.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, they missed Jesus. That is the point. Which, which here, here I'm going to tie this in. Even though I got hung up on the guilt thing, which is not there. So just. That is what it is. And which is what I was saying, that sometimes these hard to find. So let me read it in the King James version, John 9, 41, because they got it right. Jesus said unto them, if you were blind, you should have no sin. But now you say, we see. Therefore your sin remains. Now it says ye instead of you. But that's what it says. Well, so let's just, you know, go from there. What is my point? How come people don't see Jesus? Because they actually were claiming to see. But how can you see if you're not acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God? And he basically was implying you've become a thief. Going Back to John 8, your father is the devil, who's all about lying, stealing, and death. And so in John 16, it actually works better without having this guilt in there, which is not in there, because watch what he says. It really. I had a light bulb moment on why people don't believe. So if I go back and read John 16:7, it says, I tell you the truth, it is for your good that I go away. Unless I go, the counselor will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment. So he has it into three categories. And I really believe this is why people can't see is my point in regard to sin, because men don't believe in me, which is exactly what you said, Zach, because in him there is no sin. He actually, to go back to what you said, Jill, gives us the capacity since he died for our sins and was resurrected. It enables us, gives us the power to die to our sin. So think about all those verses that says that we are now. We can. Now, you know, Romans 6 says that die to sin, which is a whole different category, because in him there is no sin, and he died for our sins so that we could now die to our sins, be out from under that dominion of sin. And the same thing applies to the resurrection on the next part. But it comes through the spirits, because then it says, in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me in regard to righteousness, because I'm going to the Father. Well, that's how he started this. Well, when he goes to the Father, what was he also going to do? He was going to send the counselor. So once you have God's spirit, you're now out from under the dominion of death.

[Jace Robertson]

And not just that. Think about how easy it would be to live a righteous life if everywhere you went, Jesus was right there with you. Like, literally, like, if Jesus is. Everywhere I went, he was with me. I'm not like, I got the Son of God, the Son of man walking.

[Phil Robertson]

The sinless Son of God.

[Jace Robertson]

And he's. And his presence is right there. And so I'm in his presence, but he's like, but here. But look, I can only be in one place at one time because I'm actually incarnated into a body. But the spirit is the one that's doing this. So the spirit's going to come and live in you.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly. It highlights the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I know. We're almost out of time. So I just want to read this last part of it, because here was my whole point. It's not that the Jewish leaders were just bad. They're in cahoots with the wrong dominion, which then in John 16:10 it says, and in regard to judgment, I mean 11 John 16:11. Because the prince of this world, speaking of the evil one, has now been judged, and some versions say condemned. So that's why he brought up the judgment part to the Pharisees. He was implying, look who you're running with. Go ahead, Jim.

[Zach Dasher]

I was just going to say. And who they were running with was not going to bring about resurrection in their lives, because this is what's so beautiful to me about the indwellment of the Holy Spirit, is that Jesus resurrects way more than bodies. Like in Jesus, he wants to resurrect your marriage, your life, your addiction, your relationships, your past traumas and hurts. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, there can be resurrection happening in your life every day. And I just think that's beautiful.

[Jace Robertson]

And the resurrection, yeah, comes. It comes after the death. Which is why Jesus said in John 10 that the reason the Father loves me is because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. Nobody takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it up again. This charge I received from my Father. And that's the message that the Jews heard. And they start arguing like, this guy's got to be possessed by demons. They're like, well, I don't know if he's like, what's going on there? They cannot figure out what he's talking about, but he is laying out the very core of the gospel. I think we're out of time here. So when we get back, I think I'll be back with us, Jay. So we'll see if we can. He might clean up our mess, but I think that was pretty good.

[Phil Robertson]

See y' all next time.

[Missy Robertson]

Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.