Ep 1121 | Willie’s Daughter Sets up a Photo Op & Jase Turns It Into a Safety Hazard

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family – Episode 1121

Title: Willie’s Daughter Sets up a Photo Op & Jase Turns It Into a Safety Hazard
Release Date: July 4, 2025
Host: Tread Lively
Guests: Phil, Al, Jase, Zach Robertson, and special guests from the Robertson family

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1. Introduction to the Episode

The Robertson family welcomes listeners back to another episode of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family." This episode centers around a family-organized photo opportunity orchestrated by Willie’s daughter, Bella, and how it unexpectedly turned into a humorous yet slightly hazardous situation.

2. Bella’s Photo Op and the Unexpected Twist

Timestamp [02:19 - 10:54]

Bella, Willie Robertson’s daughter, organized a family photo session at Willie’s golf green. Eager to participate, Phil Robertson wears one of the new Duck Commander golf shirts Bella designed. The gathering included family members like Jeff and Jace, with a cameraman present to capture the moments.

Notable Interaction:

• Zach Robertson [02:24]: “I didn't know we were doing podcasts today until last night...”
• Phil Robertson [02:44]: “I missed a lot of stuff while I was gone.”

The session seemed straightforward until Zach decided to add some excitement by attempting golf shots to capture dynamic photos. Initially hesitant, Zach managed to make two impressive chips into the hole, much to the amazement of family members.

Key Moment:

• Zach Robertson [09:36]: “I flopped that thing out of the heavy rough on the green. It's in the hole, made it second.”
• Phil Robertson [10:38]: “We call that the money shot.”

These successful shots not only thrilled Zach but also sparked conversations about safety, especially with the presence of a cameraman and the close proximity to Willie.

3. Family Dynamics and Project Involvement

Timestamp [02:46 - 04:57]

The Robertson brothers discuss the unspoken family code regarding the involvement of family members in personal projects and ideas. Historically, the family maintained a rule: before involving others, especially siblings, they would first ensure the idea's viability independently.

Key Insights:

• Zach Robertson [04:22]: “Now, is it you that sell our...”
• Phil Robertson [04:22]: “They were kids.”

This conversation highlights the balance the Robertson family strives to maintain between supporting each other and ensuring individual projects are well-founded before involving the entire family.

4. Zach’s Golf Antics and Humor

Timestamp [06:13 - 12:25]

Zach shares a lighthearted anecdote about his attempt to improve his golfing skills during the photo session. Despite initial nervousness about hitting Willie with a golf ball, Zach successfully lands two impressive shots.

Humorous Exchange:

• Zach Robertson [10:54]: “I have no idea what that means.”
• Jase Robertson [11:00]: “You need to do it again just to show you that that wasn't an accident.”

Zach jokes about the possibility of inadvertently showcasing his reduced "yips" (a golfing term for loss of coordination), adding humor to the family’s interactions.

5. Health Updates and Faith Reflections

Timestamp [13:15 - 19:00]

Phil Robertson shares a heartfelt update about his and Lisa’s recent visit to New Orleans for Lisa’s breast cancer checkup. Reflecting on the support from the medical team and the lasting influence of Phil’s late father, Willie Robertson, Phil emphasizes the importance of faith and prayer during challenging times.

Personal Reflection:

• Phil Robertson [14:31]: “We had our one-year checkup and... tests turned out great. No cancer.”
• Phil Robertson [14:36]: “Thanks for all the prayers out there. You guys are awesome.”

This segment underscores the family's reliance on faith and the impact of their legacy on their resilience and outlook.

6. In-Depth Biblical Discussion: Jesus as the Good Shepherd

Timestamp [24:29 - 52:57]

A substantial portion of the episode delves into a theological discussion centered around John 10, where Jesus defines Himself as the Good Shepherd. The Robertson family explores the implications of this metaphor, emphasizing Jesus' relationship with His followers and His divine authority.

Key Points:

• Jase Robertson [24:29]: “We talked in the last podcast about how... Jesus is the good shepherd.”
• Zach Robertson [26:10]: “He rose to greatness with one stone that hit the giant.”

The conversation covers several theological themes:

• Dependence on God: Highlighting Jesus' reliance on the Father, contrasting with earthly leaders.
• Authority and Sovereignty: Discussing how Jesus’ authority surpasses that of any human leader, referencing Moses and David as scriptural examples.
• Doctrine Clarifications: Addressing common doctrines like "once saved, always saved," and emphasizing the relational aspect of salvation over transactional understanding.

Notable Quotes:

• Zach Robertson [25:20]: “He knows my sheep, just as the Father knows me.”
• Phil Robertson [30:16]: “Even the greatest of our kings cannot [be]...”

The brothers engage in examining scriptural passages, drawing parallels between Jesus' actions and Old Testament figures to illustrate His unique role and the personal, transformational relationship He fosters with believers.

7. Theological Insights and Doctrinal Discussions

Timestamp [38:33 - 52:57]

Furthering their exploration of John 10, the Robertson family members debate the nuances of Jesus’ statements and their implications for Christian doctrine. They challenge the simplistic interpretations of complex theological concepts, urging listeners to consider the relational and authoritative aspects of faith.

Highlights:

• Unity with the Father: Discussing verses that emphasize Jesus' oneness with God and how this shapes the understanding of His divinity and mission.
• Revelation Connections: Zach draws connections between John 10 and the Book of Revelation, emphasizing the victorious and divine nature of the Church.
• Scriptural Consistency: The family members advocate for a holistic approach to biblical interpretation, avoiding fragmented doctrinal positions.

Key Takeaways:

• Transformation Over Transaction: Emphasizing that faith is about a transformative relationship with Jesus rather than a one-time transactional event.
• Impartial Doctrine Application: Rejecting simplified doctrines in favor of comprehensive scriptural understanding that fosters deeper intimacy with God.

Final Reflections:

• Phil Robertson [48:07]: “The word is, Zach, if you didn't marry Jill as a transaction, you married it as a transformational life.”

This segment solidifies the episode’s central theme: embracing a profound, relational faith that mirrors Jesus' intimate relationship with the Father, advocating for a deeper, more meaningful understanding of Christian doctrine.

8. Conclusion

The episode concludes with the Robertson family reaffirming their commitment to living unashamedly in their Christian faith, sharing personal stories, and engaging in meaningful theological discussions. They encourage listeners to reflect on their own faith journeys and the transformative power of a genuine relationship with Jesus.

Closing Remarks:

• Phil Robertson [52:57]: “Have made out about the future, but we believe it's about the now.”

Listeners are invited to continue following the Robertson family's journey, gaining insights into faith, family, and the integration of both in their daily lives.

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Highlighted Quotes with Timestamps:

• Zach Robertson [02:24]: “I didn't know we were doing podcasts today until last night…”
• Phil Robertson [14:31]: “We had our one-year checkup and… tests turned out great. No cancer.”
• Zach Robertson [25:20]: “He knows my sheep, just as the Father knows me.”
• Phil Robertson [48:07]: “The word is, Zach, if you didn't marry Jill as a transaction, you married it as a transformational life.”

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This episode of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family" masterfully blends family anecdotes with deep theological discourse, offering listeners both entertainment and spiritual enrichment. Whether you're a long-time follower or new to the podcast, this episode provides valuable insights into balancing family life, personal faith, and theological understanding.

Transcript

[Phil Robertson]

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[Jase Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

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[Jase Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

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[Zach Robertson]

Lowes.

[Jase Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

Exclusions and terms apply. Learn how we'll match [e-mail] lowest price guarantee.

[Zach Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil Robertson]

So welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. I'm excited to be back in studio with you, Jace. You're not. You're not alone anymore.

[Zach Robertson]

What calls that.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, awkward. When you weren't there, it got awkward.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I know we had the ladies on. I missed a lot of stuff while I was gone.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, I hate to confess something. I did not know we were doing podcasts today until last night, because in our world. Yeah, in our world, you know, if you want a week off or something, that. That's not allowed. Unless I feel like I'm, I'm angry this morning, but we've already.

[Phil Robertson]

Just so the audience will know, we've had about a 10 minute counseling session leading into this podcast. Maddie has.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm treading lightly over here. I'm. I sense that I'm, you know.

[Phil Robertson]

Are you. Are you tread lightly today?

[Jase Robertson]

I'm tread lightly today, not tread lively. I sensed it soon as I put my. Because Jase was over there without his earmuffs.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, it's.

[Phil Robertson]

It's a big week, so it's hard. We got a lot of podcasts this week. We're doing. There's a big event that by the time this airs, it'll already have happened. But the big Faith Family freedom event is this week.

[Zach Robertson]

That's this weekend, which my wife is heavily involved in. And then there's a reality show going on.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, yeah, look.

[Zach Robertson]

By the way, these people are following me around, seeing if something interesting is about to happen. And then they're like, hey, can we film this? I mean, it literally is to that point.

[Phil Robertson]

Reality TV, folks, is not what. It's cracking.

[Zach Robertson]

I got my head on a swivel now. Because you have that feeling like you're being followed.

[Phil Robertson]

You do.

[Zach Robertson]

And so it's getting weird.

[Phil Robertson]

And then our favorite little niece, Bella, who's the only one who could pull off what she did yesterday almost, I guess she, she sent us all a text, apparently individually. And.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah, I did not know you were going to be there.

[Phil Robertson]

I know. And none of Us did. And so she said she had these new Duck Commander golf shirts, which I'm wearing one today. And she said, will y' all come over and take a picture on Willie's golf green because it's in the neighborhood. And it was last night. I said, well, sure. For you, Bell, I'd do anything. So I show up, and there's Jeff, and then Jace comes up.

[Zach Robertson]

Oh, yeah. I realized that I had been part of a couple because we used to have a rule in our family that if you have an idea, okay, go see if the idea will work. And we kind of had an understood rule that this is not going to involve any other family member participating until we know this will work.

[Phil Robertson]

And it's part of the unspoken Robertson code.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

That we didn't know we had, but is apparently in our DNA.

[Zach Robertson]

The problem is the next you say work.

[Jase Robertson]

What do you define work?

[Zach Robertson]

What do you mean? Well, it's like if you have an idea. So, okay, so here's. Here's my niece. You know, she comes with an idea. Oh, I'm going to design these golf shirts. Well, I'm like, well, go see if they'll go see if the idea resonates with the people. And. Because if you have another idea, it's like, well, let me get you to wear it, and then we'll see if it'll sell. Well, then it becomes confusing.

[Phil Robertson]

Now, is it you that sell our.

[Zach Robertson]

People buying it because they saw Uncle Jace with one owner, Uncle Al, or is it because they really like the shirt? So, but what we. We have a problem because the next generation, they weren't part of that meeting. That said, look, if your best idea is get to get me to promote you. Your. Your idea. Let. Let's. Let's not do that, because what we'll do is spend our time trying to see if all your ideas work. Well, we kind of have that agreement. We do, but all those people who are doing that now, they're. They were all little kids.

[Phil Robertson]

They were kids.

[Zach Robertson]

So they didn't get.

[Phil Robertson]

It really is. It really is the next generation. It is a revival, Joe.

[Zach Robertson]

So let me tell you, I hijacked that operation. We were there for what, five minutes?

[Phil Robertson]

Five minutes, which is my kind of photo shoot. It didn't take a lot of time. It was hot yesterday.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, and she was like, you know, wear your golf shorts and all that. Well, I came and I had. I had a pair of slacks on because I thought, I ain't putting my bony little leg. What little legs I have. You know, there's a thin line between promoting something and horrifying because Jace has.

[Phil Robertson]

The good fat burn genetics that dad had. But he does have the bird legs to go with it, too.

[Zach Robertson]

Oh, yeah. And so I had a little pair of slacks on. You know, I look. I mean, I felt uncomfortable. You know, I do play golf.

[Phil Robertson]

So Lisa's shirt was tucked in. Me and Jeff, not so much. By the way, Jeff is now the fat one, which everybody's taking a turn, I guess. But Jason, he never will of being the fat brother. So that now it's Jeff's turn. So he told me he's just waiting to make his move.

[Zach Robertson]

I don't know.

[Jase Robertson]

You know, I got a plan for him. You need to tell him about the old PhD.

[Phil Robertson]

I told him. He's watching me.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, man, you got to remember, though, I. I'm active. Al. Yeah. I tell you, after this podcast, I'm to go pick up my two chainsaws because I've had a number of trees fall in my yard. And my neighbor, who's from California and has yuppie tendencies, he. Every time a tree falls on his property, he calls me, which kind of goes back to the same principle. If your best idea of cleaning up your yard is calling me, maybe we need to have a conversation. So my chainsaws were in need of repair. But. But. And I got them. Got them all fixed up. But that equals 10 pounds. Yeah. That I will lose just by fixing the chainsaws. This. And you're.

[Phil Robertson]

That'll take care of that whole bag of chips you ate yesterday.

[Zach Robertson]

I did. I told you that Al's bringing up all my. I told you I hadn't eaten a. I hadn't eaten a Zaps craw tater in a while. And this. Look at the Missy's fall. I went in there, she went grocery shopping and she bought two of the biggest bags of crawl to. She knows I love them. And I was so happy. They need to now. I took a nap after I had done the reality show, you know, that I didn't even know I was doing till the last minute. And I woke up from now. I was tired. And you know how when you just sleep, like where you think you're. You're literally coming back from the dead. I mean, John 11 here, you know, it's like, am I dead or did I take a nap? I was so hungry and I just went in there and grabbed. I said, I'm going to eat a couple of these out just to get a little taste. I mean, five minutes later, I had eaten that entire bag. Which got a response of, did you just eat that whole bag? I said, yeah, I'm picking up my chainsaws tomorrow. It'll be all right. And she was like, I have no idea what that means.

[Jase Robertson]

You're saying it's hard work.

[Zach Robertson]

You come. I mean, you and Louisiana.

[Phil Robertson]

He's gonna have his brunt boots on.

[Zach Robertson]

He's gonna be out there working right now in Louisiana. If you walk outside, you just start sweating profusely.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach Robertson]

So to finish my story, Al, So here's what happens, because what happened yesterday in our little. Oh, let's take two pictures. It was very easy, very quick.

[Phil Robertson]

I was there early, so I finished. I left y' all there right after you left.

[Zach Robertson]

I'm walking to my golf cart.

[Phil Robertson]

By the way, Willie never showed pictures.

[Zach Robertson]

It was supposed to be the four brothers. You never showed up.

[Phil Robertson]

Supposed to be the four brothers.

[Zach Robertson]

It was three brothers that his daughter.

[Phil Robertson]

Organized at his house.

[Zach Robertson]

At his house, which is a short golf cart ride for me. And so. Well, they had the cameraman there, which I don't know why he was there. The little cameraman for Duck Commander. He films duck hunts. And I was like, what are you doing here? And he's like, well, I just thought something crazy may happen. So anyway, we literally were there five minutes, took two pictures, and I thought, why would you film this?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Robertson]

And so I'm walking to my golf cart, and then she said, oh. Bella said, oh, how about we get one picture of you actually hitting a golf shot? You know? Well, the cameraman was there. I said, turn that on. You never know what's fixed to happen. So I dropped a ball beside Willie's green, and I was like, get right behind the hole. I mean, what if I make it? And he was like, I'm not sure. I was like, oh. The last time I chipped some golf balls around the green, which was in Omaha, I played terrible. I was like, I scold every one of them. So. But I need this. I need this pressure to try to fix this. These chipping yips I have. So he got behind the hole. So the first chip I was. I was over anxious about not hitting, like, you know, putting him in the hospital because he's literally.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, so you're hitting right at him?

[Zach Robertson]

Oh, I'm hitting right at him 25, 30ft away. I'm like, five yards off the green. The pin is probably 15, 20ft on, and he's right behind the hole, laying down. So I dropped another ball, and I said, okay.

[Phil Robertson]

Did he not know the Danger he was in.

[Zach Robertson]

I warned him. I said, look, I've got this pitching yips and I'm trying to fix.

[Phil Robertson]

I just wonder if the duck commander cameraman job included getting sculled.

[Zach Robertson]

So my second attempt, I flopped that thing out of the heavy rough on the green. It's in the hole, made it second.

[Phil Robertson]

Now it's on camera.

[Zach Robertson]

Oh, and I mean, I'm fist pumped. I got the.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, there's the shot.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, then I know what.

[Phil Robertson]

I know what shot. Bella's gonna.

[Zach Robertson]

Young Bella looked around and said, I think we have something better. So listen to this. The story gets better. So I'm like, I think that'll do it. If that won't sell them, I don't know. There's no trick photography. I literally just made it. And so some. One of the assistants there, as I'm walking up to the golf cart, he said, I can't believe that just happened. And I said, you want me to do it again Just to show you that that wasn't an accident. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. And I was.

[Phil Robertson]

You were backing it.

[Zach Robertson]

I was kidding. But I just thought, why not? Who know? I literally dropped my bag, grabbed a ball, grabbed the, plopped it down, hit it. It's in the hole again from twice as far.

[Phil Robertson]

So they think you're some kind of.

[Zach Robertson]

I don't know if they filmed that, but I mean, surely someone had the camera going while that was.

[Jase Robertson]

All you needed was a camera on you. The interest rate you have on your mortgage is a big deal. It can make a lot of difference in how much you're paying. I bought and sold a lot of homes over the years. It's been one of Jill and I's primary vehicles of investment. And that's where our friends at Sierra Pacific Mortgage come in. These guys are amazing. Rates are still high right now and that can make a difference in your refinancing or if you're purchasing. And they can make it feel out of reach. But markets can shift fast, I'm telling you. And when they do, you want to be ready. You want to be in the strike zone and ready to move. And so our friends at Sierra Pacific Mortgage, Andrew and Todd, and these guys are amazing and their whole team, they're going to get you set up and they're going to keep you informed so that when the time strikes, you guys will be ready to move. With 40 years of experience, they really are the experts and they make it easy because they keep everything in house. Get pre qualified today. Visit andrew and todd.com. i would advise you to do it now so that you can get a spot in the front of the line before the rest of the herd jump jumps in. When the market drops and when the market does enter that strike zone, you guys will be ready to strike first and save big. Call Andrew Del Rey and Todd Abakey and the guys I trust, and they can help you too. Call Triple 8, Triple 8, 1172. That's Triple 8, Triple 8, 11 72. Or visit andrew and todd.com. that's andrew and todd.com.

[Zach Robertson]

So I made two out of three pitch.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, you may have fixed your yips by.

[Zach Robertson]

That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

[Phil Robertson]

And so now so much feel, you know, that shot, what you're talking about is all feel. And it's easy to lose it. You know, the pros, I guess they just get so locked in, they never.

[Jase Robertson]

I never had it.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, the second one, I have to admit, there was some luck because it was harder struck. It went in the hole. It basically hit the back of the pin and went in. It just looked more lucky. The first one looked perfect. I mean, it just rolled up there and just fell in the hole. And he had the camera because I said, I want to see that. He literally could not have been zoomed up anymore. You see the shot, the ball just looks huge and it's just coming toward the hol. And you're like, it just at the last second started to tail off and just in the hole. So I'm sure that's coming to an Internet video.

[Phil Robertson]

We call that the money shot.

[Zach Robertson]

Zach.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, what, what, what's the update? You are in New Orleans.

[Phil Robertson]

So I missed the podcast on the last ones you did with the ladies because Lisa and I were in New Orleans, which is where she had her breast cancer surgery a little over a year ago. And so we've been back once for a checkup. What happens is within three years of breast cancer, there's a. The highest chance that you may get it back is within the first three years. So they see you pretty often to do that. And so we had our one year checkup and you know, we've been confident through this whole process, but at the same time, you know, you always have a little bit of angst, but tests turned out great. No cancer. The doctors were. Were great. And, and as soon as I walk in, the first thing, both we have a, like a. There's a plastic surgeon person that kind of puts you back together. And then also oncologist. And the first thing they said to me is, man, what happened to you? Where's the rest of you? So There you go. PhD and. But then we had a great conversation. Both of them talked about dad and the influence he had had on them and the world, which I thought was really neat. You know, they were both very appreciative of his work, too. And so one of them said, well, I saw. I watched the funeral. And I said, well, you and a few million others. I said, dad wanted one last chance to get the gospel out, which he did.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So. Which is pretty powerful. So. Than you for all the prayers out there. You guys are awesome. Praying for that.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, I thought the girls did good on the podcast.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. I want to know what you. How you guys saw. Y' all dipped a little bit ahead into John 11, missy.

[Zach Robertson]

She does a little program where she mentors women, I think there. Where'd she say? In between the ages of 20 and 30? Somewhere in there. And she does a little bit from John 11, kind of from the Mary Martha perspective. So it was good. And then we had. Which, ironically, I had to interrupt her one time because she did most of the talking because she had this little lesson, but one time, she had gone on about a seven, eight minute rant, like I do all the time.

[Phil Robertson]

I was say, that's. That's. It's all in the family.

[Zach Robertson]

But I thought, you know, at the end of the day, this is a conversation. So I kind of interrupted her, you know, so did she give you that look? Yeah, she gave me that look. She got the look.

[Phil Robertson]

So I had to explain. Which is why they don't do. Which is why they don't do appearances together, by the way.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, and I'll tell you what I didn't do. I did not take the opportunity or seize the opportunity to stoke a controversy between Jason, his wife, like. Like you guys did with me when.

[Zach Robertson]

I had Jill on while I was waiting for it. What you don't realize is I was waiting.

[Phil Robertson]

If only I had been here, and.

[Zach Robertson]

If you would have gone that road. I had a line that I was ready to do, but you, fortunately for you, didn't go down that road, so.

[Jase Robertson]

You were going to reverse it on me.

[Zach Robertson]

And I was. You know what I was going to say? I was going to say, because I never mentioned this to Zach until now, but I'm doing it in a friendly way. The. The difference in me and you, I was going to say, is when you went to the national championship run in.

[Phil Robertson]

Basketball in Florida and didn't invite your.

[Zach Robertson]

Wife, you left Your wife at the house. And I. When I went to the LSU national.

[Phil Robertson]

Championship, he was sitting right next to.

[Zach Robertson]

You, right next to me, all snuggle up with the greatest seats in the world.

[Phil Robertson]

That would have worked.

[Zach Robertson]

And so whatever you was. You were gonna say, that was my combo.

[Jase Robertson]

You had a trump card.

[Phil Robertson]

That would have been. That would have been a rebound right back to you.

[Zach Robertson]

Jill's face would have turned red and.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, by the way, crimson red.

[Jase Robertson]

That's good.

[Zach Robertson]

I don't. You know, I don't read the comments and things like that. I deal with real people. But I went out in public yesterday, and, I mean, literally seven out of eight people. I guess this episode we did about the bats is out there. And I get it. If I put a grate on my chimney, that would stop the problem. I've already addressed that. We're having that. It's like, everybody I bumped into, they were like, here's what you need to do. I got a guy who can put a grade on your chimney. And so that. And then the next person I meet, they're like, here's what you do about the bat. I get it. I should have thought of that. It never registered that. Well, maybe if we keep the bats out of the chimney. Yeah, that would help the.

[Phil Robertson]

Especially since you've had it before. Yeah, they're just.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, but they didn't come in the chimney before.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Robertson]

The first time my daughter left her door open.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay.

[Zach Robertson]

That was a whole different scenario.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay.

[Zach Robertson]

This was one big. The time before was a. One big group. A flock of bats that flew in my house synchronized for three days.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Robertson]

So it was this. This here was just bats coming out of the fireplace every couple of hours. They were way more in attack mode than the first I thought about you.

[Phil Robertson]

Because night before last, when we got home, when I went to open my door, there was a bat that was lit. That was lit on my. The wreath on my front door.

[Zach Robertson]

Seriously?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. And I started open the door, and it flew out right by my face. And I was like, oh, what a chase is bats.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So he was trying to get in my house.

[Zach Robertson]

There's definitely been an influx in plagues on Louisiana this year with bats and flies. I mean, everybody I've talked to have seen. They've seen more bats and more flies this year, so I'm not sure what that means.

[Phil Robertson]

I don't know what it means either. Well, I love it anytime the ladies are on, so I hate I missed it, but I'm sure they. They filled in and did a great job. I don't know what. What all you guys got done in John 10, but.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, do you really ever get it done?

[Phil Robertson]

You don't.

[Zach Robertson]

I mean, maybe if you pick up. I noticed a couple of interesting things.

[Phil Robertson]

Did y' all talk about the. The. Just the imagery idea of. You brought it up, Jason. The last time I was on the podcast, maybe two or three podcasts ago, about the idea that the ideal king seems to be modeled by a shepherd more than a. Kind of what the world sees in a king.

[Zach Robertson]

We brought that up because when you think of power, I mean, just think of like a CEO. I mean, now in America, when you think of powerful people, you think about celebrities or CEOs or government officials, well, what happens is they become untouchable.

[Phil Robertson]

Right.

[Zach Robertson]

You can't get access to these people. And it's a power thing. So when you think about Jesus being a shepherd for the sheep, I mean, he's taken that idea of power and turning it on its head because he's out there with the flock. He knows them by name. When he. He says, you know, it's like a CEO, just think of a. Yeah, I don't know. Pick a CEO of one of the world's largest companies. He doesn't know the employee's name. He like, who are you?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Robertson]

You know, they're way down the ladder. And so I think this is way more personal and it's way more powerful when he's like, and I lay down my life. Yeah, for the sheep. So.

[Phil Robertson]

And I also think, Jason, it's this idea of dependence on God. Because if you think about it, the two biggest examples I think of when I think of this imagery that Jesus brings up here, the first one is Moses, which, Zach, you're right in the middle of this, in your preaching is, you know, Moses was raised in the house of Pharaoh, learned how to be a king of the greatest dynasty on earth at the time, The Egyptians, at 40 years old, he thinks it's his time to rule because he's been raised for this moment. He goes out here and he has his moment. He kills this guy that's abusing this Hebrew person, and he thinks this is his moment to seize the day. And it doesn't work at all. And so he winds up down in the desert doing, guess what? Herding sheep for 40 years before that call comes in the burning bush. And so I think about that example, and then I also think about David, because Saul was made king because he was a head taller than everybody else. He looked the part the people wanted him. And God told Samuel, he said, he's not the man, but you know what? If you want him, you got him. And he was the most counterculture, untrusting, weak person you can imagine. You just go back and read about Saul and then guess who God picks? He picks this young guy out tending sheep, the runt of the family. And Samuel even got fooled because in 1st Samuel 16, you know, when the sons come out, he says, ooh, this Eli, the oldest one, Elihu. He's there. Got to be the guy. Look how big and strong he is. And God's like, nope, you're still looking at the wrong thing. And it winds up being David. So I just, when I look at this imagery, part of it, I think is like you said, Jason, the relationship with the sheep. And then part of it is a dependence on God. In other words, the power is in not my ability to be king, but the idea that I have a dependence on God, which Jesus has no problem saying. I and the father are one, you know? So this June 24th marks three years since Roe v. Wade was overturned. But here's what you may not know. Abortion numbers have surged to a ten year high, unfortunately, and the battleground has shifted from the courtroom to our homes. Over 60% of abortions happen through the abortion pill, taken in silence and taken alone. But our good friends at Preborn Network clinics are standing in the gap, and they're meeting women in their most desperate hour. And here's what they're seeing. Young mothers who are terrified and misled are delivering their babies, tiny, perfectly formed, onto bathroom floors. These precious babies, once called just tissue, now lie lifeless. 11% of these women who take the abortion pill will suffer serious health complications. Countless others carry emotional scars for a lifetime. This is one of the reasons why the life issue is so important to Lisa and I, because my wife is one of those people that carries those scars. So we're asking for your help. When you give to Preborn, you're not just saving a baby, you're saving a mother, too. You're giving her hope, financial support, and the truth. Preborn has already rescued over 350,000 babies. But there are so many more who need our help. Your tax deductible gift makes this mission possible. To donate now, dial £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250, baby. Or you can go to preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed.

[Jase Robertson]

We talked in the last podcast about how in, like, when Jesus is defining himself as the Shepherd. Or we said. What we said was, is that the reason why we typically don't trust Jesus is because we don't believe that he's powerful enough to do what he said he's going to do, or we don't think he's good. And so this picture of the good shepherd. I mean, think about, like if you go Back to Psalm 23, that says, the Lord is my shepherd.

[Phil Robertson]

Written by whom? David? Right, exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

Written by David. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. So you read that psalm, and he's talking about Jesus. And Jesus is saying, I'm the. I'm the Lord. I'm the guy. I'm the Shepherd. From Psalm 23. That's me. I'm the one, and I'm good.

[Zach Robertson]

Don't you think it's interesting that. Because they had that show. What was the show they had. What was it called? The House of David.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Robertson]

And really they kind of tell the story, but it all culminates, I guess, when David. And they just built this up so much when he went and got the five stones out of the river, and here's Goliath. And the crowd had the same response toward David. What are you going to do? You think you're going to defeat this giant who's just taunting, which kind of used that to his advantage because he underestimated his opponent because he didn't realize that if God is fighting the battle, the giant's going down. But I think it's interesting, and it's.

[Phil Robertson]

An analogy Jason, has been used for thousands of years, since David and Goliath. How many times do you hear it?

[Zach Robertson]

But what I'm saying is he. He rose to greatness with one stone that hit the giant. And you say, what's your point? Well, here's Jesus coming in, the sea lion of David, the lion of Judah. And then he tells this beautiful illustration about shepherd and sheep. And I lay down my life and I'm from the Father. And then what were the people's response to that? You see this in the back half? Well, they. I'll read it. They pick up stones and they want to stone him. And so, like in verse 31 of chapter 10, again, the Jews picked up stones to stone him. Isn't this ironic? Where he came in the seed line of David, who picked up a stone at God's command and defeated the enemy. And now here's Jesus, who is the fulfillment of David and a greater king and a greater prophet and person than Moses. Right, because you brought up Moses. But think about it. Yeah, God used him to part the sea, part the water. Well, Jesus walked on the water.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zach Robertson]

I mean, remember when Moses struck the rock and they said that rock was Christ? Well, Jesus would say in John 7, there'll be living water come out from within you. I mean, not just like a rock over there on our trail. And, oh, he's, you know, that's a sign that Christ is with us. He'll be in you and living streams will bubble up from within your body through his spirit. I mean, which is better is what I'm saying. So they pick up rocks, gonna stone him. And I wanted to read this because it just popped into my head, but Jesus said to him, this is verse 32 of chapter 10. I have shown you many great miracles from the Father, for which of these do you stone me? And they said, we are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy. And here's the point, because you, a mere man, claim to be God. And that was their view of Jesus. He was just a mere man. He was from the wrong place. He didn't have the right look. Which goes into your illustration about David. He hadn't picked up a stone and defeated some major, you know, oppressive force, which was Rome in their mind. If you want us to follow you, how about go Rome with a few rock David style and then we'll follow you. So I just think it's interesting.

[Phil Robertson]

No, and I think it also shows you, Jace, the dichotomy that exists with earthly kings. Even one like David, who God loved, who established his covenant through his offspring, that the Messiah would come. David picked up five stones, which a good warrior will do, you know, just in case I miss for the first one, I got four more behind it. But with God, it only takes one. And so that's what's amazing about Jesus. And I thought about this verse in Deuteronomy 6, verse 4. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Even way back then, at the very beginning, before anybody was realizing it, he was saying, there's a oneness in God that will then be seen through Christ. That's different. And that's what makes Jesus so different. He knows already that he's the one that's supposed to be the king. Because, you know, David was such a warrior, and he was a warrior for the Lord, but he was such a warrior that when he went, he wanted to build the temple. God said, nope, too much blood on your hands, too much bloodshed. He said, it'll have to come through your son, which it did. So even then, it shows you the weakness of human kings, that it becomes a bloodlust and a thirst for power. Even the greatest of our kings cannot.

[Jase Robertson]

Be the king, even the ones after God's own heart, right? Jason mentioned how Jesus is really overturning the power dynamic here and the power structure. And what I think is interesting about this passage too, is he does establish both his goodness and his authority. So Jesus establishes, I'm the good shepherd in verse 11. But then he says, for this reason, in verse 17, the Father loves me because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me. That's quite the statement, that nobody takes Jesus life from him. But I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father. So in this passage, Jesus is establishing both his sovereignty and his power and authority, and he's establishing his goodness. And it made me think of that passage in Ezekiel 34, where Jesus, or I say, where the Lord really chastises shepherds who are not good. They may have authority and power, but they're not actually good. And they treat the weak with oppression, and they take advantage of them. And this is what it says. It says, the word of the Lord came to me, son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to them, even to the shepherds. Thus says the Lord God. Ah, shepherds of Israel, who have been feeding yourselves, should not shepherds feed the sheep? You eat fat, you clothe yourselves with wool, you slaughter the fat ones, but you do not feed the sheep. The weak you have not strengthened the sick, you have not healed the injured, you have not bound up the stray, you have not brought back the lost, you have not sought, and with force and harshness you have ruled them. This is the authority structure that's being turned over. So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and they became food for all the wild beasts. My sheep are scattered. They wandered over all the mountains on every high hill. My sheep are scattered over the face of the earth, and with no one to search for them or seek for them. Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord. As I live, declares the Lord God. Surely, because my sheep have become a prey and my sheep have become food for the wild beasts, since there was no shepherd and because my shepherds have not searched for my sheep, but the shepherds have fed themselves and have not fed my sheep. Therefore, you shepherds hear the word of the Lord. Thus says the Lord God. Behold, I am against the shepherds. I will require my sheep at their hand and I will put a stop that they're feeding the sheep. And then he basically, in the very next part, says, I'm going to be the shepherd. I'll feed my sheep, I'll find my sheep. I'm going to be the shepherd. And so Jesus is establishing that he is going to overturn the entire power dynamic. And he has the authority to do it, and he has the good intentions for what's best for us. This message is brought to you by Abercrombie and Fitch. I've been ready for summer for a while, and now it's finally time for summer outfits.

[Zach Robertson]

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[Jase Robertson]

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[Zach Robertson]

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[Zach Robertson]

Yeah, I think a good question to ask yourself is, is my life reflecting Jesus just as a mere man? Yeah, is he is? If you look at your life the way you're, you know, living your life, is he just a mere man or is he who he said he was? Because I think the most important part of this that, that I've gotten out of this is that, you know, he starts off saying, I tell you the truth. I tell you the truth. He said, I am the truth. And I had a whole list of verses that go back to John 1 when he's like, the law came through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus. And he's think of the woman at the well. He's like, the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. He keeps bringing this up because we tend to think truth. Oh, I gotta go find out, you know, which doctrine is right or which rabbit hole put all this. It's just like random words and philosophies. And here's Jesus saying, oh, I am the truth. The truth is a person. It's not just a mere man. He embodies truth. Well, he does the same thing with the resurrection on the I am in the next chapter, when he starts talking about, oh, Lazarus, you know, he's just asleep. I'm going to wake him up, you know? And then he eventually says, I am the resurrect, because she starts talking about philosophy. Well, we know that he'll be raised at the last day. So all I'm saying is he's saying, resurrection is a person. It's not a. I'm not a mere man. I'm embodying these principles. And I think it really changes the way you study the Bible, because at the end of the day, you go back to a person that is embodying this. It kind of helps you with trying to figure out all the times and dates and all the arguments over, well, when the resurrection is going to occur, and all the detail. And the same thing with truth. It's like if his lips are moving, truth is just being unveiled in mighty ways. That should really stop you in your tracks. And I wanted to bring up one other thing just to ask y' all about this. I looked this up with all scholars because, you know, every once in a while you read something, you think, well, this is weird. So I want to go see what everybody says about it. Crickets. But I want to ask y'. All. So I'm putting you on the spot here. I think it's really interesting that the wording in verse 11, he says, because he repeats himself, he says, I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. But then in verse 15, 14, he says this again, I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep, and my sheep know me, just as the Father knows me. So because Zach had just mentioned this, this is why I wanted to bring it up. And I know the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. Well, now, did he say the exact same phrase? If you look at it closely, this is what I looked up the first time he says it. He says it generally. He says, I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. But the second time he says it, in verse 15, he makes this comparison in the vein of, I'm not a mere man, because me and the Father are one. Just as the Father knows me and I know the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. So he goes from general to real personal. So I thought, is he actually saying that in general, the Father, this is a reflection of his love, is laying his life down for the sheep through me. And then he's like, and I'm laying down my life for the sheep? Because he did it in the vein of me and the Father, I'M here. I'm getting my authority from that. I don't know if y' all have ever thought about that, but you see the difference in the sentences. The sentence breakdown is, I'm the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down what all the scholars said was because they were intrigued by it. Like I was, but they didn't know what it meant. And they were like, well, it's just. He was making a general statement, and then he was saying, I'm making a personal statement. But I thought, but he's doing it in the context of him and the Father doing this as one. So it seemed like to me, he's like, this is the Father's plan, and I'm. I'm the manifestation of the plan.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. Which, you know, it's like the. Was it Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan till you get hit in the mouth?

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And it, you know, the plan was there. But when Jesus is actually here on the earth as a man, then that makes the plan even more real than it ever was.

[Zach Robertson]

I think that's the point. I think I've. I've stumbled on something that. That maybe the scholars have. Have missed because they're detaching it from the Father. But I'm like, what? The whole point, again, I'm from the Father. It's always that rule when the Bible repeats itself. You're like, well, wait a minute, let me read that. Because I thought, why did he just say that?

[Phil Robertson]

Here's what I think proves that you're right. When you fast forward into the garden on the eve of when it all is fixing to go down, and you see this wrestling match that the Son of Man is having as the Son of God with God. See what I'm saying? It's about to happen. The anguish of the moment. There's anguish there. I mean, there you see the wrestle that goes in of any man knowing that they're about to make a huge sacrifice. We would all know that experience, but nothing like he was doing, because all of his divine nature was about to be on display in a terrible way, in an abusive, awful way for people to watch. So I think that proves exactly what you're saying. There's the decision to do something, and then there's the decision to make it happen. And those are two things.

[Zach Robertson]

That was from the Father's perspective the first time in verse 11, and then it was from his perspective in verse 15. And look, the reason I had this, it wasn't like I had the idea. I read the whole chapter numerous times. And so when he gets to where we haven't covered in verse 25, because they said in verse 24 that the Jews said. How long will you keep us in suspense? If you're the Christ, tell us plainly, well, where does he go with that question? Jesus answered, I did tell you. But you do not believe the miracles. I do. Look what he starts talking about again. In my Father's name. Speak for me. It's back to this oneness with the Father. But you do not believe because you're not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one.

[Phil Robertson]

Back to that Deuteronomy passage.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah, I think it's the same point of this connection, which, when you get away from this, you get into all sorts of doctrines that are crazy to me. But I think that was his point because they thought he was a mere man. And he's like, you don't understand. I'm the Son of the Father. The plan is he wants to lay down his life, which he's anchored.

[Jase Robertson]

He's actually anchoring his coming death. He's anchoring the cross, which is actually really profound. As I'm thinking this out here, he's anchoring the cross itself in the very nature of God. And so it moves it from a transaction. Because if you think about a sheep, the sheep analogy only goes so far, right? Because, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, I'm going to take care of my sheep. But it's really a transaction. I'm a shepherd, because I'm actually going to sell them at some point. I'm not like in a.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, he made that point when he said, when a wolf comes, the hired hands, they take off running. But if you own them, if these are reflections and images of you yourself that you made, well, it's a little.

[Jase Robertson]

Different story because he's elevating it in that second statement when he says, I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep, and my sheep know me. Well, what does he mean by that? Well, he explained it. Just as the Father knows me and I know the Father, so now he's talking about real intimacy. This is actually unabridged or unadulterated intimacy between the Father and the Son, which is completely perfect. Like, it's an intimacy between two persons that's so pure that they're actually one person or one being. Sorry. And so that's when he says, and I lay down my life for the sheep. He's anchoring that. Laying down the life in the very nature of who God is. And it makes me think of that second Peter passage where it says that we've been invited to partake in the divine nature. This is a beautiful picture because he's actually elevating what it means to be a sheep. To be a sheep with Christ is to have the intimacy that Christ has with the Father. We have with Christ. And you really see that play out through the entire book of John. Particularly when you get to John 17. It kind of flows all into that idea of unity.

[Zach Robertson]

Exactly. I was going to the same place and I just wanted to bring up. The reason I'm bringing this up is because people go here to try to make arguments about. They're reading this part about the Father who has given them to me is greater and no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. And they try to make doctrines on. Well, this means once saved, always saved. These little pithy statements. Yeah, and they get that because you know from verse nine, when it says, I am the gate, whoever enters through me will be saved. When we see the verse, I mean the word saved, we immediately think, well, there's a transaction that happened, but there's a little letter by that word saved. And you look down and it says, or kept safe. And you got to look at the big picture here. It's not a one time kind of thing. That word, when you look at that word save used here and look at how many times that's used. And I encourage you to do that. Go look up that word in the Greek and look every saved in verse 9, 10, 9, and look everywhere it's used. Because you know what you'll find fascinating? That same word is used by the disciples in chapter 11. That same word is used when Jesus said in verse 11. After he had said this, he went on to tell them, our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I'm going there to wake him up. His disciples replied, lord, if he sleeps, he will get better. Will you say that phrase, he will get better? Same same word that's used in John 10. And what I found fascinating is that word is used all over the place in the Gospels where it says, do you want to get well? Remember when he asked, I forgot which story that was. But when he. I think that was the guy that had been hanging out in the pool and he said, do you want to get well? Well, same word.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Robertson]

Get well. Restored, made whole. Yeah, saved. I mean, it's used in a lot of different ways, kept safe. And my whole point of bringing this up is this picture of the shepherd and the sheep and Jesus being the shepherd, and I know my sheep. He's like, there's an enemy, There are powers. To Zach's point, he is saying that my power is going to be shown in a different way. But there are other powers who are going to attack you. They're going to try to lure you. And we know one, at least, is.

[Phil Robertson]

The evil one, which he mentions here in verse 10.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah, and that's the context of John 10. So when he says, no one's going to be able to snatch you because there's other powers who are out to do you harm, and they blind you, they lie to you, they'll kill you.

[Phil Robertson]

They steal, they'll take you, they'll use.

[Zach Robertson]

You for something, and then you look up and they're gone, and you're suffering the consequences. And I'm only saying. I'm not trying to make some big philosophical argument. I'm just trying to say this is the context of what he's saying. And you see the same thing in the book of Revelation. But go ahead.

[Jase Robertson]

While I'm turning there, no, when you think about. Use the phrase once saved, always saved, or like, a pithy statement like that. I grew up, man, having those discussions as kids. And you believe in once saved, always saved. I'm like, man, it seemed like even that phrase, it just reduces the entire Gospel to something so trivial to me. Because if I'm asking that question, do I believe once saved, always saved? What I'm saying is, do you believe that I do this thing one time and okay, I'm good now. I'm good, I'm secure. And it kind of misses the whole point of what Jesus is saying here. In verse nine, he says, I am the door, or on the gate. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go. This is the part they leave off and will go in and out to find pasture, to find those green pastures. He makes me lie down, and pastures green. Psalm 23. And so the picture here really is, I'm thinking of, like, Jacob's ladder in Genesis 28, where heaven and earth meet. That's the access point, Right? Where heaven and earth meet. And what Jesus is saying here is like, I'm the entry point. I'm the access gate, because the presence of God is behind this curtain Here, what you're being invited into is not simply a thing that just says you're secure. What you're being invited into is something that's relational. And if I apply the same logic to my marriage, and everything that I did was just to make sure that me and Jill, okay, we're secure. We're secure. Like, that's not really what a marriage is about, is making each other feel like no one's ever going to leave or, you know, it's. The point of a marriage, is to find connection and intimacy.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, the word is, Zach, if you didn't marry Jill as a transaction, you married it as a transformational life. And that's why you've grown together as a couple and will continue to until the moment that you breathe no more. And it's the exact same thing with Christianity. Is Jesus and his sacrifice transactional for you, or is it transformational for you?

[Jase Robertson]

That's the difference, because that's where he's going in John. Right. We won't get there today, but, I mean, he's actually moving the conversation into the oneness that he has with the Father. So he's building the case here for what real intimacy is, and intimacy beyond transformation, beyond just a transaction.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah. What I wanted to say is I told Al I did this. I studied the whole book of Revelation in the last week, and I gave a little preview of that on one of the podcasts where I kind of summed up the first seven chapters, because there's a lot in here about the Lamb and the lion and becoming a lamb, and yet being the shepherd. But. And so I have this fresh on my mind, and I'm not going to go, because we're going to save the Book of Revelation for our last hurrah when we go through it. But the reason I was drawn to it is because this same idea, it's all about this. You know what I believe? Revelation being the Church being persecuted at the hands of Rome, and he to these seven churches, and they're going to attack this power. Just think it's a power struggle. You have the Evil One in cahoots with some earthly power, dishing it out toward people who have put their trust in Jesus, which is the greatest power. And I just wanted to read this one section in chapter 14, because I think it's very powerful. And he looked, and it says, there before me was the Lamb. We're back to this Lamb exalted at the right hand of God, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. And so immediately people get distracted. But I'm just going to tell you this now, and we'll revisit this later. But it's a. You know, it's imagery representing the whole people, God. And what I find fascinating is in Revelation, every time the followers of Jesus are depicted, they're always viewed as heavenly. It's like heavenly people. And every time you see the inhabitants on the earth or dwellers of the earth, it's always the people who are not in Jesus, which I find very interesting. It's like that's how the imagery depicted, which comes back to this. He won't allow anyone that the Father's given him to be snatched out of his hand. But then he goes on to say, so I know I made that without giving you all the details on why that represents the entire group of people. But one day when we go through Revelation, I'll show you. Then he says, and I heard a sound from heaven, like a roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like the harpist playing their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures, which is representative of the angelic world. And the elders, there's the humans. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth, which kind of proves my point. This is the whole totality. It's like 12 times 12 times a thousand. These are those who did not defile themselves with women. And, you know, he's not being literal about anything. He's just saying they're trusting the voice of the shepherd, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. That's the sentence I was trying to get to. And so that is the picture of what we have in John 10, where even no matter what the enemy is, whether it's Rome, whether it's the Jewish authority of Judaism who are wanting to stone Jesus, or, you know, the temple that had turned corrupt that Jesus would pronounce judgment on, in which I believe that he's pronouncing judgment on Rome. These different powers through the work of the Evil One and his entourage that come up on Christians. Our battle cry is, he's not just a mere man. We're following him wherever he goes. And that's why I think John's vision depicts those as heavenly creatures and heavenly beings, because he's at the right hand of God. He's won, we're victorious. The Church is Victorious and most people.

[Phil Robertson]

Have made out about the future, but we believe it's about the now. All right, I got a good follow up verse for that, but but I'm going to save it for the next podcast. So we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.