← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1122 | The Robertsons’ Message to Texas Flood Victims: ‘We Grieve with You’
00:57:54
Loading summary
Transcript90 lines
- [00:00]
Jase Robertson
This message is brought to you by Abercrombie and Fitch. I've been ready for summer for a.
- [00:04]
Zach Robertson
While and now it's finally time for summer outfits.
- [00:07]
Jase Robertson
With a trip coming up, the A and F vacation shop has me covered. Abercrombie really knows how to do a lightweight outfit.
- [00:14]
Zach Robertson
Their tees, sweater, polos and linen blend shorts never miss.
- [00:18]
Jase Robertson
I wear Abercrombie denim year round.
- [00:20]
Zach Robertson
Their shorts are no different and have.
- [00:22]
Jase Robertson
The comfort I need for summer prep. For your next trip with the A and F vacation shop, get their newest arrivals in store, online and in the app. I am unashamed. What about you?
- [00:37]
Phil Robertson
Welcome back to Unashamed. We man, we're praying for folks down in Texas. What a, what a devastating. Zach. It sort of reminded me of what you guys went through last year. Just so fast, you know, just devastation, you know, know, it's just, yeah, it's.
- [00:57]
Zach Robertson
Like it's been hard. I mean I've been watching it, thinking, my gosh, I told Jill it's looks very, very similar. And this mystic Christian camp where the, the, the, all the little girls were, were swept away and, and died and the counselor and the, the director of the camp, I mean that it's just, ah, it is heart wrenching. I mean it really is. I, I, I can't, I can't quit thinking about it. So our heart, our prayers and our thoughts and prayers go out to that whole community. Wow.
- [01:29]
Phil Robertson
Yeah, we thought about it from a grandparent perspective. You know, our kids went to camp this week, our camp at Chioka, and both of my kids sent pictures to us and we're like, you know, I mean, just, you just double down on gratitude, you know, that you're, that you're not going through something like that. But for the folks that are, it's just, I know there's got to be a heavy, heavy moment. So it's a very, very touching.
- [01:56]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. It's not too far from where, you know, Jeff and I lived. I lived down there for about a year, but not that I left here, but you know, because it's not too far from Austin. You know, we were on the outskirts of Austin and you go out there and it's dry, it's, it's just hill country. I mean they said there we're in like a hundred year drought, which is what contributed to what happened. It rained a couple feet in a short period of time and then all of a sudden the river rises 26ft in 45 minutes. Well, just wrap your head around that. That means that's a Wall of water. Yeah, it's acting like a tsunami. I mean, it's hard to wrap your head around there. There's nothing you can do on that particular case.
- [02:54]
Zach Robertson
Well, you saw, I'd never been to that part of the country. Well, I've been to San Antonio, but I'd never been out to the. That area around Austin until I went down for the Final Four, and we stayed a few days, and one day I drove that whole stretch. I rented a car. I wanted to see all the springs around there because I grew up in North Florida, where there's a lot of natural springs that are absolutely beautiful. And I wanted to check out the Texas scene on that. And so we drove that whole Guadalupe River, New Brunswick, all that area. And it is absolutely stunningly gorgeous. I mean, it is. It is some. It's some of the most beautiful part of the country I've ever been to. And it's just the people there were amazing. The food was great. I mean, just so much culture and life and. Yeah. So it was. I just. I literally just drove that entire stretch and. Yeah. To see the pictures. My goodness. I mean, it's.
- [03:51]
Jase Robertson
It does.
- [03:52]
Zach Robertson
How it. It reinforces in me just how quick and. And the brevity of life is just so, so quick. And I saw a clip of the girls on Instagram. It was that they posted on the 27th, and all these. The most adorable little girls, and they're all doing, like, these little skits and cheerleading things at the camp. And, you know, you think about our experience at camp. You know, my parents met at Camp Chioka. Jace, did you meet Missy at Camp Chioka?
- [04:22]
Jase Robertson
No, but that's probably. You probably read that on the Internet, which is part of the problem.
- [04:29]
Phil Robertson
Willie and Corey, I've told this story.
- [04:31]
Jase Robertson
Zach, many times, and your mom is involved, but my wife, who. I mean, it really took a while before I wasn't sure she wasn't just an angel from heaven. She was just such a. Just moral, great person. But even at an early age, because, Zach, your mom taught. I think it was either the third or fourth grade she taught my wife. And not only did she teach her, she was the only teacher that ever gave my wife a spanking. There you go. I don't even know if she got a spanking from her parents.
- [05:17]
Zach Robertson
Honestly, mom didn't care. Mom wouldn't make it in today's world, by the way.
- [05:24]
Jase Robertson
Like, at school, I mean, it's like. Yeah. I mean, she said something about. Somebody griped about they were. They were picking on this guy, like, Taking his stuff off the desk. He had all the stuff arranged. And your mom said, if anyone touches anything on his desk, that's it. I've had enough. You will get a spanking. And Missy's like, she was. Had her little friend group, and they. Soon as she said it, they started messing with stuff. She's like, all right, let's go. She.
- [05:56]
Zach Robertson
Well, my mom, she. She would whoop you. She'd whip her kids. She'd whip your kids. Even if you're like, don't want my kid. If you turn around and your kids. Disrespectful, she'd whoop you. See, I mean, there's no. She didn't care.
- [06:06]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [06:06]
Zach Robertson
I mean, she would not make it today.
- [06:08]
Jase Robertson
So then in a. In a weird thing, Al and I, we were going out. My parents had started this little church out in the woods. And I had realized that I was probably going to be like Paul and never marry because the pool that we had to work with was slim. Small church. And we visited.
- [06:36]
Phil Robertson
There were, like, three families that had people our.
- [06:38]
Zach Robertson
Our age.
- [06:39]
Jase Robertson
J.
- [06:39]
Phil Robertson
That was it.
- [06:40]
Jase Robertson
Oh, it was. It was difficult. And so we took a road trip because back then when we went to town, it was. It was like an adventure. It was. It was like most people when they go on vacation. Well, we just went to town, but it seemed like a vacation because we didn't get out much. We had one vehicle, and we visited WFR Church, which is where your mom was going.
- [07:04]
Zach Robertson
Yep.
- [07:04]
Jase Robertson
And Missy, who was. Who had just received her spanking, I guess, in third or fourth grade, she was walking down the aisle, and your mom famously looked at me and said, I really believe that's the girl you're going to marry. She's in my class. I just gave her spanking. But, hey, she's good. She's good.
- [07:23]
Zach Robertson
Fourth grade. That's. That's pretty. That's prophetic.
- [07:26]
Jase Robertson
And only. Only did she bring that story up, because I never paid her no mind when she said that. I thought, well, she's crazy. And then when I was a senior in high school and started dating her, she brought that to my attention. And I was like, that's the same girl. And then I kind of remembered it. I thought she was like, yeah, I tried to tell you, but you weren't listening. True story. You can do with it what you will. But she predicted it. And it came.
- [08:02]
Zach Robertson
She also predicted Phil would lead so many people to Christ. We didn't believe in the gift of prophecy in the churches we grew up in, but if we would have she had it? For sure.
- [08:13]
Phil Robertson
But let's face it, it's a thin line between, when you're talking about prophecy like this, that thin line between crazy and right on the money, you know.
- [08:22]
Zach Robertson
Because you were wrong on her being crazy.
- [08:24]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, but it did, it does show you don't underestimate the power of a little discipline because it literally led her to being a part of that family. She's like, oh, I a spanking. They need to be a part of that family. Which I find ironic. Oh yeah, that is weird. So, and you know what's funny is she loved your mom. I mean, it's like you would think, oh, I mean, that's the only time she got a spanking. But she's like, I deserved it. I mean, it was just absolute rejection of authority. And I mean, she laid it down and we just said, no, we don't care what you say. She's like, but every, everything else she ever said, I followed the rules. That's where it started because she, she always calls herself busy, always comes herself as a rule follower. Yeah. And I was like, it all goes back to third grade. So it is devastating to think about that. I mean, it made me kind of realize, I mean it's, I'm not sure where the number is today, but it's going to be somewhere around 100, if not over that substantially. And a lot of kids and it's sad, but it made me think, you know, We've been studying John 11, but it just made me think, where, where, where are you at without the resurrection for those people, you know.
- [09:45]
Zach Robertson
So it's summertime and some of you out there, instead of relaxing, you're actually stuck in the meal planning rut. Well, Home Chef can break the monotony and free up your time with fresh, easy to follow meal kits. Offering healthy and exciting dishes deliver right to your doorstep, giving you more sunshine and less stress.
- [10:02]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. What I love about it is it gives you the creativity but also the flexibility if you're on a diet like me. And so you're looking for specific things like a lot of fish, a lot of vegetables, you can take those into account and make some fantastic meals.
- [10:16]
Zach Robertson
Home Chef delivers fresh ingredients and chef design recipes conveniently to your doorstep to simplify your cooking experience. And so users of the leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality. I agree. Number one in convenience, value, taste and recipe ease. So whether you prefer classic meal kits with pre portioned ingredients or quick 30 minute recipes, oven ready options, microwave meals, or a dedicated family meal Home Chef has everything that you and your family need for hassle free delicious dinners. I'm telling you, these meals are amazing. Home chef has over 30 options a week and serves a variety of dietary needs. Plus it's economical because Home Chef customers save an average of $86 per month on groceries. And when meal planning ends up on the back burner, check out Home Chef's new five ingredient meals that simplify prep with super easy recipes using just five fresh pre portioned ingredients. So for a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping on your first box. Plus free dessert for life. Go to homechef.comunashamed that's home chef. For 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. That's homechef.com unashamed must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert.
- [11:36]
Jase Robertson
Wow.
- [11:37]
Phil Robertson
It really does, it does give you that idea about hope beyond something. And I was having a discussion with Alex was down here, her family's down here this last week for the fourth. And you know, we were following the news obviously and she was showing me different things and you know, she made the comment, she said, you think we're in such an advanced time that people would be aware, you know, some weather person that, you know, these things are going to happen. But, but I told her, I was like, you know, when we were up in North Carolina last year, I mean, you know, we're just seeing family, you're just not really, you know, we weren't watching anything anyway. And you do, you just look up one day and all of a sudden everything that's like is, is fragile in a moment because it can just change suddenly. Read about these things that happen, the Bible and the supernatural nature of it. But the, you know, there's always been devastation, there's always been death. Which leads us to the comment that you made Jace, about it's so important for us to have something bigger than just, just this earth, you know, this life that's here, it's got to be, it's got to be something more. And going through difficult times is when you need it the most. And I mean, I think that's the whole purpose. You know, you think about the idea of comfort, which is also a theme that you see. And what we've been studying in John, the idea that you can, you know, help lift people up when they're really going through a hard time. And so it's, it's, it's very sudden and it happens very quickly. That's why you have to have community. You have to have this. This idea of, you know, us a kingdom together, because you just can't do it by yourself.
- [13:17]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, I mean, there was some poem that popped in my head, which I can't remember it, but it went something like, young and old of all ages, death surrenders all. I mean, it was something with that line in it. And I just remember hearing that years ago, thinking, man, that's morbid. But when you think about it, I'm not sure what the death rate on the planet is a day, probably. I think it's around. I looked it up one time, 150,000, maybe. That's a lot of people. You know, I mean, it's happening every day. It's just, you know, I think you see that in John 11, and the more we study John and we think, you know, why did Jesus weep? And things like that, which we don't know. I mean, all you can do is really speculate other than he was human. I mean, I think there's. That's the most powerful part of that. He became human because that's what. That's what happens when we know people and people in our family die, especially kids. There's going to be a lot of. A lot of tears. It's the human. We're going to miss them. Why did this happen? When you ask all these questions, but. And you even see that on the news reports, they're trying to like, how can we prevent this from happening? It's like, you're not going to prevent death. When water rises in a place where it doesn't rain 26ft in 45 minutes. I mean, there's no. It's just a wall of water coming through everything in its path. I mean, it's just going to happen if you're in that path. There was no rhyme or reason for it other than we're perishable. Which I think is why the resurrection means so much. You know, when you read the passage in 1 Corinthians 15, our new bodies will be made imperishable. I mean, the real problem is we perish, we're vulnerable. And so it's going to happen. I mean, the Death rate is 100% of humans, but in the history of mankind, it's 99.9999999%. Because there were some who came back only to die again, but there was one who came back never to die again, which you have now, the 99.999999%. I just thought of that off the top of my head, but I believe it. You know what I mean? If it wasn't for that point, however decimal points you have to go to get to Jesus, it's just 100% and it should be devastating. I think we kind of rationalize it. If you don't know anybody, it's like, oh, man, that's terrible. But for those people in and around that town, it's just complete devastation.
- [16:13]
Zach Robertson
No, it hurts. I mean, I, you know, you. I mean, I've. I have not been able to stop thinking about it and, and even crying about it. I don't know if it's part of. It's because I think it hits home just because of what happened here. So we saw a lot of death up close and personal. The same kind of thing that happened there happened literally in the town right next to our church. And members of our church watched people swept away, never to be seen again. But you mentioned that Jesus wept, and I've been thinking about that a lot, you know, post storm, you know, post Helena and then now, you know, this, this storm. I think that Jesus wept because death, like this type of loss is so tragic and it's not the way that it's supposed to be. And I read this in a book recently where the guy, Alexander Schmeeman was talking about how Christians process death. And we mentioned this on a previous podcast that we don't. We. The Bible doesn't say that we don't mourn. It just says that we don't mourn like the rest of the world. But there is a mourning and there is a night when we cry and we weep and we, we're testifying that this is not the way that it should be and this is not the way that it will be. And I think that's why Jesus wept at the passing of Lazarus, because he saying this is not the way it should be and it's not the way that it will be. So it's actually a form of kind of like this sacrament of that we're. When we, when we do this, we're testifying. And, and I thought, you know, it's interesting that when I think of. Because I love apologetics and I love all the Christian philosophy and theology, everybody know, if you know me, you know that about me. But the most real thing to me that I've ever experienced is, well, to the two most real things are. One is the love of life. Like when you have a newborn baby or you fall in love with the person who I'm married to now, Jill, like that that's so real and tangible that I can't really. I can't put that in a box or a test tube or I can't measure it with some kind of philosophy. It's just real. It's kind of where I'm at. And then when you lose somebody, especially in a circumstance like this, the pain of that loss is. Could perhaps be the most real thing that you will ever experience. And you may. You can't measure it, you can't test it, but it is. It is. It just permeates the. The. The deepest part of your soul. And so I think what these families are going through in the community around there, in those who are watching from afar, I mean, we. You know, I can tell you from this as our podcast, we. We mourn with you and we testify this is not the way that it should be. And we long for the day when this is not the way that it is, but it is painful.
- [19:00]
Phil Robertson
Well, you remember Jesus said in Matthew 5, in the Beatitudes when we studied Matthew, blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. So you're right, Zach. He shares that human experience with us to then share that with other people. I always think about 2 Corinthians, the. Really the word comfort, which I did a little bit of study on that word. It's all throughout there. It's almost like a theme, the entire letter of second Corinthians, because, you know, they were going through some real hardships. And Paul's trying to work through it, but he starts out that first text, and he clearly lays out that when he looked at his own life and the difficulties that he faced, you know, a lot of it, he blamed himself because of, you know, where he was before he met Christ on the way to Damascus. But he understood the idea of the human connection that Jesus had for him, you know, but he had to reflect to get there. And so I think moments like this do that. And I've thought a lot about dad this week, just, you know, because of us going through the process of mourning him. But it was, as you described, the more natural way. You know, your patriarchy should go ahead. You know, he should lead the way and.
- [20:20]
Jase Robertson
And.
- [20:21]
Phil Robertson
And, you know, be a trailblazer. But when it's your children, your grandchildren, you know, just. It's such an upsetting thing because it's not the natural way at all. I mean, it's like, man, it just. That's what gnaws, I think, at us the most when it just seems out of order.
- [20:39]
Zach Robertson
So it's an interesting time for business if you're in the business world, but if you're a business can't adapt in real time, well, you might have a problem. And that's where our friends at netsuite come in to help out. Jase, you actually own Oracle, is that correct?
- [20:53]
Jase Robertson
Yes, I own shares of Oracle in my portfolio and I have for years.
- [20:58]
Zach Robertson
Which is the company that NetSuite is brought to you by. That's NetSuite by Oracle. It's your AI powered business management suite trust about over 41,000 businesses. NetSuite is the number one cloud ERP for many reasons, because it brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR all into one suite. You could have one source of truth, giving you the visibility control that you need to make real quick decisions. And with real time forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data that you can actually use. And with AI embedded throughout, you can automate a lot of those everyday tasks, letting your team stay strategic. Netsuite helps you know what's stuck, what's costing you, and how to pivot fast. It's one system, full control. Tame the chaos with netsuite Al, can you imagine how beneficial it would have been in the early days of Deck Commander to have access to something like NetSuite?
- [21:46]
Phil Robertson
You know, I'm sure my parents would have loved it to have it and have it available. And also mom and I started a restaurant a few years ago. I would have loved to have known about NetSuite.
- [21:54]
Zach Robertson
It's much easier to make decisions when you have all the information that you need to have. And that's what NetSuite allows. It allows you for a smooth process for people who use it. So if your revenues are at least in the seven figures, download the free ebook Navigating Global Trade Three Insights for Leaders at netsuite.com Unashamed that's netsuite.com UnashamEd.
- [22:20]
Jase Robertson
Well, yeah, I had the same response, Zach, as soon as I saw it and they were putting these little kids pictures up on the screen. I just got teared up, you know, and thought about it. Then I've had about three running arguments going with some of my friends. They listen to the podcast and of course I don't have an agenda. I mean, we're studying and we could be wrong about things, but you know, from time to time, boy, there's some things that just gets me worked up and oh, man. And so I'm just like, I think what I've been thinking about since this happened and these two or three Running arguments. I mean, these are very smart people. Smart man in my life. And I'm just like, if you break these, if you look at the Bible and you make it about concepts and for an example, let's use grace. When you say grace, you know, what do you think? Just give me your first impressions of grace.
- [23:27]
Zach Robertson
Forgiven for my sins, unearned merit.
- [23:31]
Jase Robertson
See, which proves my point. Those things are right. And that's usually what I would say. But you know, if you think about what grace is in a Bible context, it only means something because of the one who's acting gracious. You could do the same thing with love, grace, without an actor. And I mean actor as in the God above.
- [23:58]
Zach Robertson
One who acts, not one who pretends, but one who does, who does.
- [24:02]
Jase Robertson
Look, it's just a made up word that has no meaning. And my point is we preach the cross and we preach the resurrection as concepts, but it doesn't matter. We should preach the one who was on the cross. That's the difference maker. There were tons of people that were crucified under a Roman cross, but the one who died claiming to be the Son of Man, well, there's the game changer on who that is and the resurrection itself. Because one of the arguments I got into, they were like, well, when you say Jesus was the firstborn of the resurrection, there were other people who were raised. And then it becomes a philosophy about the resurrection has already occurred, which was the argument I was having. And look, not that it didn't have some merit and some good arguments, when you try to read Revelation 20 talking about there's a first resurrection, you know, which implies a second and all this. And remember in Matthew 27, when Jesus died, some were raised to life and they were like, see, see, the resurrection is. It's already happened, happened. But I'm like, no, it was different with Jesus and the implications were different. He was the firstborn. Yeah, and he conquered death. Even where, you know, we've been studying in John 11 where it's talking about I am the resurrection and the life. Even when he says in First Corinthians 15, if there's no resurrection, then your faith is futile. And then it says you're still dead in your sins. Well, just think about that. Because some people, they just preach up to the cross, they focus on that. But it's like, if there's no resurrection, and I mean, the one who was raised who. We're preaching Jesus as the Son of God. He's like, you're still in your sins. Which means the cross is not enough in this story. And you say, well, how can you even say that? The cross had to be. Well, how do you wrap your head around that verse in 1 Corinthians 15, if Christ hadn't been raised, you're still in your sins. What does that mean?
- [26:19]
Phil Robertson
He said, we're to be pitied more than all men. If it was only for this life, it had to be something bigger.
- [26:26]
Jase Robertson
To your point. That's my point. It's the person on the cross and who was raised. And then it gets into why he's all the time bringing up the Father. Because when you think about it, Jesus was the first human to completely trust God when it came to morality. You know, the Father as the loving Father. I mean, he did it not only on the cross, but he did it in death. That's why I think John 10 is so important. When he said, look, no one's taking my life from me. I'm giving myself. And you're like, why would he say that? I thought he had to die. I thought this was the whole plan. But he was showing that he's trusting the Father. He kept going back to, I'm trusting the Father, I'm trusting the Father.
- [27:17]
Zach Robertson
So what's the guys you're arguing with? You're saying they're proposing that the resurrection has already occurred.
- [27:24]
Jase Robertson
This is like, already occurred.
- [27:26]
Zach Robertson
Preterist kind of.
- [27:28]
Jase Robertson
Well, yeah. And so I'll give you. I think it's interesting. I mean, I'm going to go to something really deep and give you a thumbnail. And y' all remember all our listeners. We've decided to. When we do the Book of Revelation, that's our suitcase series of podcasts. We'll have our bags packed when we get through it. That way, if you don't like it or disagree, we're going to be on down the road. But. But to be fair, we're kind of.
- [28:01]
Zach Robertson
Dripping what we already said. We've been dripping for a long time where we're at on some of this.
- [28:06]
Jase Robertson
To read the well, and I'll read a verse because, you know, when I go to the Book of Revelation, I'll say, well, there's. There's a judgment that is being predicted against Rome for taking on the church. And look, not unlike a judgment predicted to the temple of Jerusalem and its leadership for not embracing Jesus. That happened in A.D. 70. And Rome fell whenever it fell, not long after Revelation was written. And so I'm like, it makes sense to me. Not only is it saying, there's a judgment coming on them for that. And it uses a lot of the same language, even used against nations that tried to attack Israel in the Old Testament. So all through the Bible, when people or kingdoms of earth take on the people of God, God gets angry. And he gives this imagery which they call it apocalyptic, which is not a good word because all that means is something is revealed. But we call it apocalyptic imagery. But the word apocalypso, the Greek word. I know, it's getting deep, is the same word for Revelation. So when in Revelation 1, it says the revelation of Jesus Christ, well, he's going to reveal something that's hidden. Now he uses all this imagery. So that's what I think it is. But before I read it, because you say, well, what does this have to do with the Book of John? And what does this have to do with what just happened in Texas with the flood and people dying? Well, in Revelation, people were dying because they were followers of Jesus and they died. You agree?
- [30:04]
Phil Robertson
Yeah. Persecution, Absolutely.
- [30:06]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. Well, in John 11, I want to read this just because, you know, Rome is mentioned here. Where is that? So after he raises Lazarus from the dead. And we haven't covered that yet, but we'll get to it.
- [30:21]
Phil Robertson
There's a verse 48.
- [30:24]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. It says. So there's a conversation that comes up, and I'll read the Revelation 20 and tell you the argument. But it says. Let me just read in 45. It says, therefore many of the Jews who had come to visit Mary and had seen what Jesus did, put their faith in him. But some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done. Then the chief priests and the Pharisees called a meeting. Boy, there's usually bad things happening.
- [30:54]
Phil Robertson
You gotta get a meeting.
- [30:56]
Jase Robertson
So they said, what are we accomplishing this? Here's this man performing many miraculous signs. If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him. Now. Now watch what this says. And then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation. You know what's interesting is that actually happened. Yeah. Later. This happens in history. What. What they're predicting. True.
- [31:27]
Zach Robertson
Kind of like the Tower of Babel. Yeah, like what they were worried about. Actually, the thing that they were trying to prevent is the thing that actually happened.
- [31:35]
Jase Robertson
Exactly. Now, the only reason I'm reading this is because when I say I believe that Revelation went was written in the time of Roman rule. And there was a couple of guys who did some bad things to Christians, mainly Nero and Domitian, but they were very far apart. And so Just my opinion. I believe it was written in between them. I think the emperor was Vespasian or whatever. And I'm basing that on Revelation 17, where it gives this image of the city on seven hills and all these. These heads and horns of power, which is the exact number of emperors in Rome. You kind of figure it out that way.
- [32:17]
Zach Robertson
The most valuable app you can have on Your Phone in 2025 is an app called Upside. I have it on my phone right here, and I use this when I get gas or actually diesel for my truck right now just down the road at the Shell station. 61 cents a gallon back, cash back on diesel. So that saves me about 15, 20 bucks when I fill up my rig. So whether you're filling up your tank or going out to eat or shopping for groceries, Upside app it gives you opportunities to earn cash back on every purchase. And the free upside app, it gives you cash back on daily essentials like gas, groceries, dining. And all you got to do to get started is to go download free upside app and you can use our promo code unashamed and get an extra 25 cents back on every gallon on your first tank of gas or first tank of fuel. It's very easy to use. There's over 100,000 gas stations, grocery stores and restaurants on the upside app, ensuring the cash back is always just around the corner for you guys. You can earn an average of 8% on restaurants and grocery purchases. And the best part is that you can even stack your upside cash back on top of your credit card and your debit card rewards. Upside users are earning hundreds of dollars a year. That's probably why they have a 4.8 star rating on the app store. So I'm going to use the upside app today when I go down to fill my vehicle up with diesel at the Shell station. And with my cash back that I'm going to get, I might just take Jill out on a date. So download the free upside app and use promo code unashamed to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas. That's an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas using promo code unashamed.
- [33:55]
Jase Robertson
Back to John. 1149, it says, then one of them named Caiaphas who was high priest that year spoke up. You know, nothing at all. You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than the whole nation perish. Well, guess what? That also happened. Speaking of Jesus, and John recognizes that in 51, when he says, he did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, and not only for that nation. Listen to this. But also for the scattered children of God to bring them together and make them one. So from that day on, they plotted to take his life. The reason I want to read these is because I've had two separate arguments, and I'm going to combine them, and both of them are addressed in that one passage. Because the first argument is with the guy saying the resurrection has already happened. And he goes to Revelation 20. You're like, now he's way off from what most religious people believe, where they get to the Book of Revelation and they say all this stuff has yet to happen. Right. Well, this guy is like, oh, no, it already happened. And I'm kind of consistent. And I would say I'm in the middle, which is I believe these things happen to Rome and the people that died as martyrs, and it's a guarantee that they will be raised at the final coming of Jesus. I mean, that is my view. I think this is a template of any earthly power that takes on Jesus, which is what we have in John 11. They're like, oh, he's way too powerful. Look, people are following him. We need to kill him. I think this is a template for. For that happening. So when I read Revelation 20, I just think, since it is using this, we'll use the word apocalyptic language. It's given you a vision because Jesus also said, even though you die, yet shall you live.
- [36:10]
Zach Robertson
Yeah.
- [36:11]
Jase Robertson
So we're looking at it from our perspective, but from God's perspective. He's given you a vision of these people who died at the hands of Rome in Revelation. They may not have been bodily resurrected, but he's given you a vision that they're going to be raised. They're not dead.
- [36:31]
Zach Robertson
Yeah. I think the hard thing is that what people tend to want to do, we all. We're all like this. Let me push. I know it's not that. I'll say no. I know it's not this end of the spectrum. So what we do is we go all the way to another end of the spectrum and take the opposite position. And that's why I think when it comes to eschatology or like, end times and all that, what all that means, the problem we're always going to get into is either we're going to be all about the already, which is what kind of that. That view is saying it's already all happened. Everything's already here or not yet. Nothing's here. Nothing's here. It's all. We're just waiting on the hell. The world's going to hell in a handbasket. And, and you, you feel like you got to pick one of the two. When the. We're saying is the biblical teaching is it's both. And the kingdom of God is already here, but it's not yet fully realized. Which is the name of my other podcast, by the way. Not yet now. But. But if you read First Corinthians 15, I think that, that Paul makes a pretty explicit argument about. And it's. I mean, I would say be very careful of a full, what's called a full preterist view that the resurrection's already happened. Because Paul says here, you already mentioned the thing about, about not if the resurrection hasn't. If there's no resurrection of the dead and we're to be pity more than all men, they may argue and say, well, we're not saying there's no resurrection, we're just saying that it already happened. The problem with that, though, with that position is you also have verse 20, or is it actually verse 19 that says this in 1 Corinthians 15. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people, most to be pitied. So his point is that if it's only he's pointing to another life that's beyond the one that we're experiencing right now, and that's clearly pointing to a future resurrection of the dead. That's not a past thing. That's not a. This is clearly talking about. Paul's point is he's clearly talking about a hope in. In the.
- [38:36]
Jase Robertson
The.
- [38:37]
Zach Robertson
Not the. Not yet. And I think where it goes into this conversation about what's happening right now, even like in Texas and, and just these kids dying. I mean, look, you go through something like that, like what are. There has to be a future hope when that's not a reality. Like there has to be. And I think that's what Paul's point is, is that there is hope beyond the devastation of what we're experiencing right now. There's hope beyond watching our, you know, my Uncle Phil, your dad, my mom die the most horrible of deaths from this horrible disease, dementia. Like, there's got to be a world coming. Well, that's not a reality. And there is one. That's the whole promise of the fullness of the kingdom.
- [39:22]
Jase Robertson
Right, Exactly. Well, that's what I was going to say. I was going to Read this, which it may be. It's hard to read this imagery because I think if you read the Book of Revelation with the template I described, it's Jesus revealing something that's hidden. And it's in the context of earthly powers. In this case, Rome did all this persecution against the saints. And look, you see this in the first three chapters. It sets it up. Jesus has the key to death and Hades. And this vision you have, this conquering and overcoming that we did in our earlier podcast, you have to refer back to that. In every letter to the Church, the same word is used, he who overcomes. Because they're coming. They're going to persecute you. You're going to die. Some of you will die. So he gets all the way to Revelation 20, and he says, then I saw an angel coming down of heaven. This is Revelation 20, having the key to the abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He sees the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil. And if you just stop there, you realize what is equated with the. The evil one, all the way back to the beginning. Sin and death. He's realm of the dead murderer. From the beginning, Jesus came to destroy him who had the power of death. He uses death to enslave humans.
- [40:56]
Phil Robertson
Accuser.
- [40:57]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, accuser. Yeah. But all of a sudden, and this is where, when Zach came up with that word that describes the view that I'm having an argument with, this preterist view, which I hate, putting people in categories, but Zach did it. So I'm just using it for illustrative purposes. But they rightly point out that this next phrase where it says, the Devil, he bound him for a thousand years, he threw him into the abyss and locked him and sealed it over. So it's a period of time. When you see a thousand years, just think period of time. You can't all of a sudden start taking everything literal. In the Book of Revelation, everybody realizes it's figurative language. The problem is, until we get to a part that kind of fits our narrative, and then we take that literal, it's a picture. And you say, what did he say? What does it mean? There's a truth in here. But if everybody takes everything in here literal, well, what do we have? Insanity. It's a vision, so don't start taking it literal. Just walk with me on the vision. So you have a thousand years. Let's say it's a period of time, which means it wouldn't be the end of time. Go ahead, Zach.
- [42:13]
Zach Robertson
Yeah, someone I heard, I think it was R.C. sproul one time they were asking about, do you interpret Revelation as literal or you interpret the Bible as literal? And he was like, well, yeah, I do also interpret it as metaphorical, as poetic. And he just went down all the. He's like, yeah, depends on what you're reading, right? Some things are literal. Some things are like, clearly poetry. Some things are clearly historical. Some things are clearly. I mean, there's just different things in Scripture and you have to try to look for the context of what it was actually meant to be interpreted as.
- [42:45]
Jase Robertson
So look, if you have Rome going in with the evil one and causing death of people in Christ, this is what's being addressed. So he throws him up, he binds him. In verse 4, he saw thrones on which were seated those who have been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. Well, when did that happen? Well, that happened under Rome. And I believe that's what's being addressed here. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received. So these are. These are people who have put their faith in Jesus which, who he's addressing, which he addresses them in detail in seven different churches in the book of Revelation. Now, they came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Well, it's a period of time. So they say, well, see, the resurrection's already happened. That's where they're getting this. But it's a vision. Watch. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. And look, I'll just stop right here. How can you make sense out of Ephesians 2:6, where it says Christ has seated us in our salvation, with us in the heavenly realms. Well, did he literally seat us there? Or is it this connection we have with Christ in that we are seated there by him being the first human to go into the presence of God, post his bodily resurrection. So from God's perspective and this image that Jesus is revealing, I think that's what he's given. He's not giving you all the pieces of the puzzle so you can make sense of everything from your perspective. That's where the problem gets off. Because watch how it continues to what it says. This is the first resurrection. Well, just don't take it literal. Just say these are people in Christ and whether they die or whether they make it through the Roman oppression, which they'll die later, they're going to be raised. They are raised from God's Perspective, because he's an eternal God. So it's a vision of that. And so then people try, oh, well, that means there's the second resurrection. Well, he tells you what the second resurrection, it's not so much in the order of time, because then I'll keep reading. You'll see it in verse 6, says, Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. You're in Christ. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God. You're like, well, what is the second death? I mean, this is kind of a mind bender. But don't look at it from your perspective. Just look at the vision. And it answers the questions. When the thousand years are over, which had to mean it was a period of time. This is not the end. Before that, then Satan will be released from his prison, will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners. And you have this Gog and Magog, and that's a different rabbit trail, but it's not unexplainable together because that was used as a picture of judgment in the Old Testament. So there is meaning there. Don't think of something crazy in number. They are like the sands on the seashore. The they marched across the breath of the earth, surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured. That sounds like what I was depicting as true when you take on the people of God. Oh, he's coming. Judgment is coming for those who oppress who work in cahoots with the evil one. Verse 10. And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast, which I believe is Rome, and the false prophet, which is the religion of Rome, had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night, forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne, and him who was seated on it, earth and sky fled from its presence. Just an imagery. And there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And the books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the Book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done. Well, we have a second resurrection. Well, who are these people? The opposite of those who are in Jesus. You see how it works? You got imagery of the first resurrection, those in Jesus. It's just an image. You know what the second resurrection is? It's those who are not in Jesus and watch what happens to them. The dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. Obviously, they're being judged based on their merit because they're not in Jesus. And guess what? We all know all sin, all fail, and you're in the wrong camp, the evil one. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he's done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of Fire. The lake of Fire is the second death. Well, there's. It explains the imagery. You're either in Christ or you're not. You either are, in this case, persecuting Christians or you're the ones being persecuted. If you're in Christ, you win now, even if you die. And later, if you're not in Christ, you lose. Now, even though you think you win and you lose later, you're shut out from the presence of God. So there's that argument which led to the second argument of, well, we're waiting on a physical structure to be built in Israel before then. They take these passages for all this to then happen. And I'm like, well, we are the Temple. This argument's going on for days. I just send another verse that says, God doesn't live in. And buildings built by hands. First Corinthians 6. I mean, First Corinthians 3 and 6. 6. 3 and 69 says that we're the Temple. Him not living in buildings built by hands is all over the place. Acts 17. Remember when Stephen preached, God doesn't live in buildings buil built by hands. You think Ephesians 2, we rise up to become the dwelling place of God, Jew and Gentile, the new temple. So there's that argument. You want to take that on, Zach?
- [49:31]
Zach Robertson
Yeah. Well, one thing I read this week, I heard somebody say. I've heard this phrase quite a bit in my life, and I always. I never liked it. They'll say something like. They'll talk about the red letters, you know, because in a lot of translations of the Bible or a lot of different Bibles, they'll have. If Jesus, like, Jesus's words will be in red.
- [49:53]
Jase Robertson
And.
- [49:54]
Zach Robertson
And so they'll say something like, oh, these are the red letters, as if there might more. They have more authority than the black letters. Because the red letters. The argument is, well, you know, the red letters, those are Jesus's words. So those are really important. And then the black letters, well, those weren't necessarily his words. Those were the apostles who wrote them, whatever. But what you got to understand about the. So this guy had said to me, the. The I'll take the, the red letters of Jesus over the black letters of Paul any day. And I've heard that phrase before. And I got to thinking about that, I was like, you know, it's interesting that really the red letters of Jesus are not actually, you know, they are what different authors recorded as his words. So it's in other words, in Mark, the Gospel of Mark, if you see red letters, that's Mark's account of what Jesus said. But the same thing is true in the black letter. So when Peter or Paul write their letters, the ink's in black. They're telling you what God said, just like Mark is telling you what Jesus said. So there's no difference between black letters and red letters. It's a horrible hermeneutic to read the Bible that way.
- [51:03]
Jase Robertson
Well, you're making my point. I made earlier because it points to the person.
- [51:09]
Zach Robertson
Words are just, you're missing the, you're missing the divine inspiration of the Scriptures. And so one of the things that I thought about was this passage in second Peter three. And I actually had an argument one time with, with a very well known world leader. I'll just leave it at that. Who has a very, very powerful person. And I was, we were, I was talking about the Gospels and he said, you don't, you're an idiot. You don't know what you're talking about. He tells me this. I'm in Washington D.C. at this meeting, just me and him. And he said, if you knew anything about the Bible, you would know that Peter was inspired and Paul wasn't. And I literally pulled this verse out of second Peter 3 where he says, where Peter talks about Paul and he says, Paul has a lot of really complex things to say. But people who don't understand them, they distort them as they do other scriptures. In other words, what Paul said is scripture. And I slid my Bible down the table to this gentleman and I said, I have an issue. Because what you're telling me is that Peter was inspired, what he wrote was scripture, but what Paul wrote wasn't scripture. But yet if you read clearly here in second Peter three, Peter says everything Paul said was Scripture. So I don't know what to do. And he's like, where does it say that? But I went back to look at that and here's what's interesting. I say all that to say this at the beginning of that whole setup when Peter's talking about the Apostle Paul's writings. Listen to what he's actually, the context of what he's actually Saying that people are distorting. This isn't second Peter 3, verse 13. It says, but according to his promise, we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. So if you were to say, sum up this whole thing, what you're talking about the kingdom, the kingdom of God being here, the temple, all that stuff, it's all about the new heavens and the new earth coming, coming right at the end. And that's what Paul was referencing. And he says, therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish and at peace, and count the patience of our Lord as salvation. Just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given to him. What is he talking about? Paul told you about the same stuff about the new heaven, the new earth, the kingdom, everything that you just mentioned in all those verses, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. What matters? Matters of the kingdom, matters of the new heaven and the new earth, matters of eschatology. There are some things in them which are hard to to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist of their own destruction as they do other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the errors of lawless people who lose their own stability, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. So I actually think that we're misinterpreting Paul. Paul wrote all about the Jew and Gentiles coming together into one kingdom. I mean, that was the point of his entire theology. If you look at the way the book of Acts ends, the book of Acts actually ends with this picture of the new heaven and the new earth language. And then it picks up in Romans, chapter one. At least the way my Bible is organized, with Paul saying, I came to bring the Gentiles to the obedience of faith. Let me read this. Acts 28. Acts 28, 28, which is the second. There's only like a few more verses left. This is what it says. Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles. They'll listen. And he quotes Isaiah in here and he said, look, nobody's going to hear. Nobody's going to listen as a quote from Isaiah 6. Nobody's going to hear it. He said, but it's going to the Gentiles now and they'll hear it. And then the very Then you turn to Romans in my Bible. It's the very next page. Paul says, we have received grace and apostleship. Why? To bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, the Gentiles. So Paul's whole point, Paul's whole mission, Paul's whole purpose was he was the Judaizer, he was the Jew of all Jews. And that was the guy that God said, I'm going to use you to bring the gospel to the nations. So I don't know how we're missing it, but I think we have to get back to what Paul wrote.
- [55:50]
Phil Robertson
Well, we're out of time to further discuss this, but we'll pick it up the next time on Unashamed. I guess we'll keep the argument going, Jase, and keep giving our answers. So we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.