Ep 1128 | Jase Claps Back at a Guy Who Tried to “Correct” His Sermon

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family – Episode 1128 Summary

Title: Jase Claps Back at a Guy Who Tried to “Correct” His Sermon
Release Date: July 17, 2025

In Episode 1128 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family, hosts Jase, Phil, Al, and Zach delve deep into Scripture, share personal testimonies, and discuss the profound significance of baptism and resurrection in the Christian faith. This episode is particularly insightful for listeners seeking to understand the interplay between biblical narratives and contemporary Christian living.

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1. Opening and Sermon Reflections

[01:01] Jase Robertson:
The episode kicks off with Jase affirming the show's central theme: “I am unashamed. What about you?”

[01:06] Phil Robertson:
Phil welcomes listeners back from Gulf Shores and initiates a discussion with Zach about recent sermons they've encountered.

[01:14] Zachary Robertson:
Zach shares his experience of his father Phil preaching on Exodus 15, the Song of Moses, focusing on God’s deliverance of Israel from Egypt. He recounts how he appreciated his dad sticking closely to the text:
“I gotta tell you, you finally stuck to the text, and it was good.” [01:51]

[02:06] Phil Robertson:
Phil appreciates Zach’s feedback, likening it to a classic Robertson compliment.

2. Personal Stories and Testimonies

[03:11] Zachary Robertson:
Zach narrates a touching story about Phil’s dedication to fulfilling their grandmother’s wish for fried oysters. Despite Phil’s efforts, their grandmother’s response, “not much,” disheartened him. This anecdote underscores the challenges of faithfully serving others even when appreciation is lacking.

[04:04] Jase Robertson:
Jase reflects on the beauty of Exodus 15:11, emphasizing God's unparalleled glory:
"Who among the gods is like you, O Lord?" [04:19]

[05:09] Jase Robertson:
A pivotal moment comes when Zach shares a heartfelt email from a listener in North Carolina seeking baptism:
"I've been listening to your podcast for years, and finally I'm ready to turn myself into Jesus and I want to be baptized." [07:24]

Jase responds with genuine excitement, seeing the profound impact their ministry has on individuals battling sin and seeking redemption.

3. In-depth Biblical Discussion and Theology

a. Understanding Heaven and Baptism

[04:30] Phil Robertson:
Phil and Zach explore the concept of heaven, debating whether it's a place, space, or person. Zach posits:
"Heaven is heaven because it's where the presence of God is." [06:31]

[07:37] Zachary Robertson:
Zach draws parallels between Exodus 15 and baptism, suggesting that just as the Israelites crossed the Red Sea, baptism symbolizes our passage from sin into a new life with Christ.

b. The Significance of Baptism

[12:04] Phil Robertson:
Phil references Hebrews 12:1-3, highlighting the "church of the firstborn" and the continual reverence for Christ's resurrection.

[18:17] Jase Robertson:
Jase delves into Romans 6, emphasizing that baptism signifies dying to sin and rising with Christ:
"We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." [39:05]

c. Resurrection: Lazarus vs. Jesus

[24:55] Jase Robertson:
Jase contrasts the resurrection of Lazarus with that of Jesus, pointing out the uniqueness of Jesus’s resurrection:
"Jesus's resurrection is eternal. He cannot die again. The power of death no longer has mastery over him." [29:05]

Zach adds depth by referencing John 11, where Lazarus’s revival serves as a precursor to Jesus’s own resurrection, highlighting the divine authority and the eternal implications of Christ’s victory over death.

d. The Church as New Jerusalem

[19:34] Phil Robertson:
Phil elaborates on Hebrews 12:22-24, identifying the church as the new Jerusalem, a holy assembly united in Christ:
"You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel." [17:37]

[20:00] Jase Robertson:
Jase reinforces this by describing the church as the "new Jerusalem," a community of believers adorned with purity and worthiness:
"I am a street of gold with jewels. And I'm expensive because Jesus purchased me." [53:50]

4. Addressing Misconceptions and Clarifications

[17:37] Jase Robertson:
Jase corrects a misinterpretation of Peter being the cornerstone, emphasizing that 1 Peter 2:6 refers to the foundational confession of faith:
"The cornerstone of the church is the confession that Jesus Christ is Lord." [17:44]

[35:15] Zachary Robertson:
Zach clarifies baptism's essence, asserting it's an oath to God rather than merely a ceremonial act:
"It's an appeal or a pledge of a good conscience to God." [38:59]

5. Empowering Faith Through Resurrection

[41:19] Jase Robertson:
Jase ties Romans 8:23-29 to the resurrection narrative, illustrating how believers are collectively experiencing both death and resurrection with Christ:
"We ourselves who have the firstfruits of the Spirit groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies." [46:40]

[50:00] Phil Robertson:
Phil reflects on the lasting impact of their father Phil’s resurrection, envisioning the final resurrection as the ultimate victory:
"That man’s resurrection is a testament to the hope and renewed life we all hold." [50:00]

6. Closing Remarks and Future Directions

The episode concludes with the Robertson family reaffirming their commitment to long-term discipleship and evangelism. They emphasize the ongoing journey of resurrection, both in Christ’s life and in the believer’s daily walk. The hosts express anticipation for future discussions on resurrection, indicating a planned Part Three to further explore these themes.

Key Takeaways:

• Baptism is a profound symbol of dying to sin and rising with Christ, embodying a believer’s commitment to a new life.
• Resurrection differentiates Jesus’s triumph over death from other biblical resurrections, highlighting His eternal authority.
• The Church is portrayed as the new Jerusalem, a collective body of believers unified in Christ’s presence.
• Personal testimonies underscore the transformative power of faith and the impact of genuine discipleship.

Notable Quotes:

• Jase Robertson [01:06]: “I am unashamed. What about you?”
• Zachary Robertson [01:49]: “I gotta tell you, you finally stuck to the text, and it was good.”
• Jase Robertson [07:24]: “I've been listening to your podcast for years, and finally I'm ready to turn myself into Jesus and I want to be baptized.”
• Phil Robertson [19:59]: “We are the New Jerusalem.”
• Jase Robertson [53:50]: “I am a street of gold with jewels. And I'm expensive because Jesus purchased me.”

This episode of Unashamed with the Robertson Family offers a rich exploration of foundational Christian doctrines, personal faith journeys, and the enduring hope rooted in Christ’s resurrection. Whether you're a new believer or a seasoned follower, the insights shared provide a deeper understanding of living an unashamed life centered on Jesus.

Transcript

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[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil Robertson]

So welcome back to Unashamed. We're down here in Gulf Shores. Zach, you heard any good sermons lately?

[Zachary Robertson]

I did. My dad preached one yesterday that I thought was, man. I said. I told him after.

[Phil Robertson]

So y' all rotate through and you're preaching kind of like. Kind of like we do back home.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah, we got four guys that rotate through. We got one guy that's kind of our paid guy who does about half of it, and then the rest of us kind of rotate through. But dad Preached on Exodus 15. Right. You know, coming out of the parting of the Red Sea. And there's the. It's basically the song of Moses. It's a song.

[Jase Robertson]

The Lord is a warrior.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah. And he preached on that.

[Jase Robertson]

And.

[Zachary Robertson]

And I told him afterwards, I said, I gotta tell you, you finally stuck to the text, and it was good. He did not like that. He walked. He literally turned around and walked off. He said, you're such a butthole. And he turned around and walked off.

[Phil Robertson]

I was like, I'm just telling you.

[Zachary Robertson]

It'S better when you stick to the text.

[Phil Robertson]

You know, the classic dasher compliment.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah. It's a backhand. Well, Jace does it all the time. Jason's is. Yeah, I mean, I'm real surprised. That was actually not horrible. That's Jace's compliment.

[Jase Robertson]

Thanks, Jace.

[Zachary Robertson]

I appreciate that, buddy.

[Jase Robertson]

For everyone listening, I've never said that.

[Zachary Robertson]

Sentence in my life. Yes.

[Jase Robertson]

That's not horrible.

[Zachary Robertson]

You would say something like, I'm surprised. That wasn't the worst thing I've ever heard. Which is your way of saying, I like that.

[Jase Robertson]

That was the way I was raised. When you say, hey, that's not bad. That means it was really good. I know it doesn't mean it was.

[Zachary Robertson]

No, I received it as a compliment. I'm just interpreting for the people that if you ever run up on Jason, he says something like, no, that's a compliment. Like, that is actually a raving endorsement.

[Jase Robertson]

My dad had two categories, especially when it came to food. Not bad and not much. One of them means really good and one of them means really bad. So you figured that out.

[Zachary Robertson]

He was a victim of that. You know, there's that story that Ben tells of. He went to get oysters. He said, our grandma, granny, when she was living with my parents right next door to Phil and kids, she said, I want some. I want some oysters. I want some fried oysters. And so Phil drove all the way over to Captain Avery's and called. We called him and said, hey, let me know when you're getting a fresh batch of oysters. And I'm gonna send somebody to go there and get them, and then I'm gonna cook them for my mom. And who was our grandmother. And so, I mean, it was a whole, like, half day deal sending somebody over there, getting the oysters and feeds. I mean, he did a whole thing, made her a fried oyster. Po. Boy that. She took one bite, and she said, not much. He was so. He was so mad because he had spent half a day cultivating this cuisine for his mom and for her to.

[Jase Robertson]

Respond, yeah, not much. Not much. I remember the verse I was thinking about when you brought up Exodus 15 is when he says in verse 11, who among the gods is like you, O Lord? Remember when we talked about.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, from Celestial 82. Right?

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. The. The celestial world. So. No, that's good. Well, that's why when you get to Revelation, we're back on Revelation.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, boy. Al.

[Jase Robertson]

I keep saying we're going to study that one day. By the time we get finished. Well, it's like Zach said that before we started, when Gordon preached the sermon, he was talking about streets of gold. And what was his take on the streets of gold? Probably the. The top five, at least. Top five misused phrases in the Bible.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah. His main point was essentially, we're viewing heaven as a place, which it is a place. But he said that's not the purpose. He said, it's a person.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, is it a place or is it a space? What do you mean? I just asked you a question. It means what I said, is it a place or is it a space? I don't know.

[Zachary Robertson]

I feel like there's a setup there.

[Jase Robertson]

Think about that. Let that simmer. It's not a trick question.

[Zachary Robertson]

I'm not dipping my toe in that. Answer that till I know what you mean by that. I feel like I'm being set up for something.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I mean, my point is God is not bound by place or space.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

So really, we're trying to come up with a phrase. I was setting you up a little bit. Because we use it as God's space. I've heard it used as that. But it's a dimension where God is. And it's viewed as heaven. But in the beginning, he created heavens, the heavens and the earth. But it was kind of interlocked in that if you look at it where God is and where humans are, and because of the sin and death, separation occurs however you want to define that. So. But the problem is then people started thinking, well, God's a million miles away. And that's. That's not. That's just not true.

[Zachary Robertson]

No. Yeah. Well, that's. His point was like, heaven is heaven because it's where the presence of God is. But we had.

[Jase Robertson]

That's where I was going. Yeah, it's the person.

[Zachary Robertson]

It was interesting, though, yesterday at church, because I got an email from. There's a. I don't know. I don't know who puts this email out. I don't even know what it is, but. And I should, because I run all the production side of this. But there's an email that people from the show sends. Send stuff to, and I don't know what it is, but somebody sent an email into the show, and they live in North Carolina, this young man. And I mean, it was. I mean, someone sent it to me, and I literally was like, this is one of the most heartfelt emails I have read in a long time. That I won't get into it too deep, but it basically was like, made a mess of my life, kind of in a moment of crisis. Had some stuff going down in his marriage, just a pattern of just habitual sin, struggle that he's never really turned over to the Lord. And he basically said, I've been listening to this podcast for years, and finally he said, I'm ready to turn myself into Jesus and I want to be baptized. And asked if I would baptize him. And I typically don't do that. I typically will try to find the local church. I think it's best to be baptized into a local church. But his church, they stack up the baptism so they don't do them, but like four times a year, and he's like, I'm ready to roll. So I sent word back. I said, you come to church Sunday. We're actually having baptisms on Sunday, and I will baptize you. And mainly because of the confession that he gave in the email was clearly he understood the gospel, and he clearly understood that he wanted to die and to be born again. I mean, he got it and he got here and he said. One of the things that I thought he said was, so it made me so proud to be a part of this podcast. I want to tell you guys this. He said, I listened to Yalls podcast for years, and he said I would get convicted by the Holy Spirit through what y' all are saying, and I'd just get mad and turn it off. And I'm not listening to that crap anymore.

[Jase Robertson]

Podcast crap.

[Zachary Robertson]

Oh, yeah. He may not say crap, but he was like, I may be reinterpreting it. That's how I remember it. And he said, but then I basically turned it back on. I think he said, like, maybe the stories kind of brought him back in or whatever. He said, I listen again. I can't listen. Turn it off. But he said this last time, and some things that happened in his life, he was like, I'm tired of running. I'm tired of hiding, and I want to live for Jesus. I want to put this sinful life behind me. He said, I want it to die. I want it to be gone. I want to be a father to my. To my. My. My son and the one that's in my. My wife's womb. And I want to be the husband that I've never been, and I want to repent. I want to turn from my wickedness, and I want to. I want to go with Jesus. I thought, man, that's powerful. And it kind of hit me, man, like, that's what we've been talking about, is we're not just hanging on to some, like, promise. That's that we're going to get a long time from now. Like, Christ wants to enter into your life right now, today. He wants you to experience deliverance right now. He doesn't want. I mean, he's. I mean, yes, it's going to be a full deliverance later, but he wants you. He does not want us to be held in bondage by sin like that. And it just hit me talking to this young man, beautiful, beautiful family. I thought, this guy's life's going to be forever changed because of that decision that he made to submit to the lordship of Christ right now in 2025. I spent the better part of the first 12 years of my life with my nose being shoved in Willie Robertson's armpit. Every time I'd say, man, don't. What I really should have said is Mando.

[Phil Robertson]

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[Zachary Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

We, we hear those kind of stories a lot. I got a package down here from a man in Georgia that they met. He makes coffee and so he sent me some coffee. I saw some of that too.

[Zachary Robertson]

I got some of that coffee.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. And he just sent the nicest note about the impact dad had had on his life and going back to happy, happy, happy. You know, he first read dad's story and he's same similar to what your guy said that, you know, it just has been a concept for him. And it reminded me that you were talking about the Psalm of, of Moses. And you know, Paul uses that same, you know, thing that happened when he, when he's right in First Corinthians 10. And he uses the metaphor of them being baptized, you know, when they went through that sea. Because he said, you know, the clouds on top of them, you got water on both sides. And so he compared it to this idea of newness, that they were coming out of slavery into the promises of God. Of course, a lot of those people didn't make it out of the desert, you know, because they couldn't give it up. They couldn't give up their old ways. And so then you had that second thing we talk about in Joshua, you know, another miraculous crossing. But it is amazing how you see, even across the span of thousands of years of history, this idea of being delivered and being resurrected. So, you know, we've been talking a lot about the resurrection, but, you know, when you see Jesus talking about it, that conversation he had with Nicodemus in John 3, I mean, he was saying, this literally is a new birth.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

This is that opportunity to get it right here and now. And you're right, you don't have to wait until quote, unquote, heaven. You can understand so much of it here, which then prepares you for that, for that final journey when you cross over to wait. That resurrection, which is what we call. That's why we call it the great crossover, because that's all that's happened in there is, you know, eternity.

[Zachary Robertson]

They crossed over in Exodus 15. They just crossed over from the Red Sea. Right. And so I preached last week on what that meant, and I made a direct correlation to baptism, you know, and. Yeah, and then when dad preached, one of the things he said you think about. Because think about what we're saying here in this podcast. We hit on it a lot, but it's not. Jace talks about it all the time, about understanding of grace. He did that in a previous podcast. It's not just being forgiven from something. You're being delivered into something. And so listen to the language of the song of Moses here. He says, you have guided them by your strength to your holy abode. What does that mean? Like, he's guiding them out of slavery, into his abode, into his house, into where he lives, into where his presence is. And so the crux of, I would say the entire Exodus story, and maybe the entire Bible can be summed up in Exodus 15, 17, 18, which says this. You will bring them and plant them on your own mountain, the place of the Lord, which you have made for your abode, for your house, for you to live in, for your dwelling place. That's the promise. And then you see that language, like, think about that mountain. Think about the mountain in Isaiah, chapter two, where all the nations are coming up to worship God on this mountain. That's where God lives. He lives on this mountain. He lives on Zion. He lives there. And he's planting his people in the place where he lives. According to Exodus 15:17. And it says, you have which you have made for your abode. The sanctuary, O Lord, which your hands have established. The Lord will reign forever and ever. And so when you read Exodus 15, it's this promise that God's going to take his people and he's going to bring them into his house. And so if you think about the whole Exodus story, the book of Exodus is only. It's not the whole story of Exodus. It's not the whole story of Israel from escaping Egypt, going into the promised land. Actually, the book of Exodus is only about the establishment of the tabernacle and the building of the first kind of that mobile temple structure that looked a whole lot like the Garden of Eden and then what Solomon would later build in 1 Kings 6. But the whole point of it is that God is building a house and God is going to make his home with people, and he's going to have his people live in his house with him. That's the picture.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. And I love. I love the Hebrew writer after Hebrews 11 and mentioning all these people from the area you're talking about, Zach. We call it the Faith hall of Fame. All those people that believed in him. When he gets over to chapter 12. I love this passage. It says just what you just said. The Hebrew writer says, but you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels and joyful assembly, to the church of the Firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect. To Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. I just. I love that picture of the person of God in the presence of God all rolled into one. I mean, that's the power of what this whole thing is about. And no matter where you study in the scriptures, you're always going to come back to that idea of presence, to the space, Jace, that you were talking about. Who is God?

[Jase Robertson]

So many things to correct here. First of all, you just read that. The church of the what?

[Phil Robertson]

Firstborn?

[Jase Robertson]

Firstborn. Remember the little firstborn rabbit hole we went down? Firstborn Jesus is the firstborn of creation, firstborn of the dead. So I wanted to say, I Brought that streets of gold up. And when Zach said, you know, he'd rather be baptized into a church, which I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that, but I'm thinking Romans 6, that you're baptized into Christ himself.

[Zachary Robertson]

No, no, I. No, I agree with that.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I know you do.

[Zachary Robertson]

I was. No, I don't think you're baptized into a church. I would 100% agree. I just think it's. I would just say I would prefer someone to be baptized, meaning like not into the church, but amongst their church community. So that you had those, those witnesses, if you can.

[Jase Robertson]

I don't disagree with that, but I was just clarifying because what I'm going to read. So I read Revelation 20 a while back in a different podcast, talking about the first resurrection, which are those in Christ. Second resurrection are those who are not in Christ. Ends well for those in Christ. Does not end so well. But the Next chapter, Revelation 21, you know, it's another vision. And most people take this literal. And what we said about revelation, that's a danger. It's an image revealing a truth. And so this image, as you see a new heaven and a new earth, just think new environment. And you see this holy city, the new Jerusalem. Al, you just read that in Hebrews 12.

[Phil Robertson]

Yep.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, who is the new Jerusalem? Who is the new Jerusalem?

[Phil Robertson]

I say we are the new Jerusalem.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, People who are in Christ coming down out of heaven, prepared as a bride, beautifully dressed. He goes on to say in verse nine, in the second part of it, it says, come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the lamb. Well, who's that? That's us.

[Phil Robertson]

Church.

[Jase Robertson]

So. And he's going to give you an image of what that looks like. And here's the mountain. And he carried me away in the spirit to a mountain great and high. And show me the holy city, Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. Do we all agree based on what we've read here?

[Zachary Robertson]

Oh, yeah, that.

[Jase Robertson]

That is the church of the firstborn.

[Phil Robertson]

Yep.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, when you look at it, he starts describing walls, because it's imagery, and all these precious stones. And then he gets to verse 21, and he said the 12 gates were 12 pearls, each made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold. So it takes me back to the first time I heard a sermon about heaven has streets of gold. And it was a guy preaching very passionately. He was like, heaven is expensive. Streets of gold, pearly gates. And then he had Peter at the gate, which is another misunderstood concept because when Peter said in response to Jesus, who do you say I am? Matthew 16, you're the Christ, son of living God, and on that rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades or hell shall not withstand it. And so that church, that gate opened a few chapters later. Sure did. When Peter got up.

[Zachary Robertson]

And Peter wasn't the rock it was built on. It was the confession of Peter that that was the rock. Peter's not the rock. It's the confession. Peter symbolizes the rock, but he's not the rock. All right, so, Jill, how many houses have we lived in over the years? So we've been married for what, 20 something years?

[Jase Robertson]

We've been married. Well, how long?

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We've been married 24 years.

[Jase Robertson]

You should know that we just celebrated.

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And we have lived in 14 houses.

[Zachary Robertson]

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[Jase Robertson]

Okay. Speaking of weird arguments about the rocks I'm in the grocery store, I'm telling. It just hit me. Guy comes up to me, he's like, yeah, I enjoyed your podcast about, you know, David. And he. He picked up the stone and he slayed the giant, you know, overcoming the powers and all that. He's like, but he got five stones. He said, you should have said, because Goliath had four brothers. And I'm like, okay. I guess I wasn't sure that was in the Bible, but I was like, it's very possible. Is that in the Bible? I've never heard history. Yeah, well, he said that. So I immediately, you know, kind of. I was kidding, but not really said, well, but the rock represented the rock. Same rock that Peter, you know, laid the foundation. You know who the rock of the church is? The cornerstone.

[Zachary Robertson]

Oh, yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

If your rock is Jesus, you're going to win.

[Zachary Robertson]

Well, that's a great point, because think about those Daniel passages. The rock, the stone that came out of. Out of the mountain, and then the Jews stumbled over the stumbling rock or the stumbling stone. So that's actually.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, even think of Jacob's ladder. Where did he lay his head after this wrestling with God? And we see this temple and heaven and earth being united and angels descending, and it's called Bethel, the house of God. What did he decide to lay his head on and then leave it there? Yeah, a rock. You think that's random? And then you read in First Peter, were living stones built on the foundation, the cornerstone. So I just wanted to bring that up. And number two, when you brought up baptism and being baptized into Christ, and here we are in John 11, you know, what does this have to do with anything? A thought hit me, which is, you know, Jesus makes the cross special because of who was on the cross, made that point many times, and who came out from the dead was different from everybody else that had come from the dead, in which. Look, when you read in the Old Testament, and this sets up where we're at John 11, which this famous statement that Jesus is fixed to say, and you'll read the whole section. Al is I'm the resurrection and the life. You know what I found fascinating? Just looking at other people who were raised. He had Elisha, remember Elijah trained Elisha, and he did all kind of miracles, and they were kind of in cahoots. You know, if you just summed it up, you know, Elijah, he didn't die. He was just whirlwind up into heaven, chariot of fire. Yeah. And then here's Elijah, who actually brought people back from the dead. And I thought one of the craziest stories that I ran across about this, I don't know if y' all have read this lately, but in Second Corinthians 13:21 and it, there's a whole nother story going on and all of a sudden it says Elisha died and a skirmish broke out right after he died. And they were, some guys were going to bury a guy who had died and they looked up and a raiding party was coming toward them. You can read this 2nd Kings 13. So here comes a raiding party and they're at a funeral. They just think about, put yourself there. You're at a funeral, there's people, you know, they're upset and they're grieving and it's a gathering. And all of a sudden here comes a raiding party. Well, funeral over. Because you could have a lot of funerals if you don't get out of the way. So instead of them burying this fellow, they just put him in the tomb where Elisha was buried. And when his dead body touched the bones of Elisha, he came back to life.

[Zachary Robertson]

That's power.

[Jase Robertson]

Ooh, now that's. Look, I read that last night and it really stop me in my tracks because I thought, you know, we always think when somebody dies, well, that's all that. Well, here's a guy, a man of faith, prophet of God, who obviously had God's special attention because God was doing miracles through him by raising other people from the dead. And here's a dead guy who, you know, you talking about catching a break. What a movie this would make, you know, and what I like about it is you're like, oh, I'm going to go read the, that story. It's two verses. It doesn't elaborate. It just. I just love how the Bible throws in things like that. But yeah, that happened. Now unfortunately for him, he died later. But I'm sure somebody probably said maybe we need to look in who Elisha was and figure out however he was living. Because his, his dead body is literally still affecting people in powerful ways.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah, his dead body is giving life to other bodies. That's pretty powerful.

[Jase Robertson]

And I think it's a foreshadowing. Read that. I keep saying 2 Corinthians, 2 Kings 13:21. So my point is, is I wanted to get to Romans 6.

[Zachary Robertson]

Well, let me say this before you do.

[Jase Robertson]

Alright, go.

[Zachary Robertson]

I think did have four brothers.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay.

[Zachary Robertson]

Second Samuel 21:15, 22, and then first Chronicles 20, verse four and eight. And ironically, you know, who killed them all? Who David. Yeah, he killed them all.

[Jase Robertson]

So he got them all?

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah, he got them all.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, my whole point was I think the fellow in the grocery store, he was missing my point. And it's kind of like I think the Jewish leaders are missing the point of Jesus when he raised Lazarus from the dead. Your response shouldn't be in the context of David, oh, send his brothers. He just killed the greatest warrior of their time, who's transcended thousands of years. We're still talking about a giant with a rock. You know, he's got his armor. Come on. Ha ha ha ha. I'm like, if you can do that, don't mess with him. There's some supernatural force on his side, and they're doing the same thing with Jesus. Their immediate response is, well, we need to kill him. That would make sense in every battle of the world, except if someone said, I tell you what we're going to try. We're going to try this. We're going to try maneuver. I got a tactic. Oh, this is a great war tactic. We're going to bring a guy back from the dead. Well, if you can pull that off, you're now in charge of the world. Your response shouldn't be, oh, we need to kill him. It doesn't make sense to me. And then it leads to wanting to kill Lazarus. But I want to say all that to say this. What is the difference in Jesus coming back from the dead and every other occurrence in the Bible? I mean, I came up with that second Kings 13, just to land, and of all places in the context of baptism, which I think I'm going to make a point about this. But I want to read 9, 6, 8 through 10. So it's Romans 6, 8. It says, now, if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. But I want you to focus on nine. Because it's not that we believe in the resurrection, it's who was raised is what makes this special. Verse 9 is very, very powerful. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again. Well, now we have a difference here. He cannot die again. Death, Death itself. The power of death. And it is a power that the evil one uses. But it's coming to all 99.99999 except Jesus. Death no longer has mastery over him. The death, he died. He died to sin once for all. But the life he lives, he lives to God. I've already made the connection about that sin and death in First Corinthians 15. But that's what separates everything? So here's what I wanted to say because that is coming off the heels of baptism where he says, what shall we say then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means. We died to sin. How come we live in. Don't you know that all of us who were baptized, here's the key phrase into Christ Jesus. It made me think about the comparison of John 10 and 11 where Jesus said, I give my life, nobody takes it from me. And people have the same argument of baptism. They're like, hey, do you think we have to? And I'm going to what you're baptized into, which is Jesus. I think it's the same response that Jesus had. He chose to do this. He chose to trust God in death so that God would raise him up. And I think we do the same thing in baptism. It's not whether you have to or you're making it some requirement or I think that is the visual image that you should be thinking about. I'm going to trust God and I'm going to die. Just like the Red Sea crossing. Now, it's one thing to say, oh well, yeah, they knew God was going to rescue them. Pretty hard to jump in the middle of a sea.

[Phil Robertson]

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[Zachary Robertson]

What's interesting about that is that because I preached on this last week and I'm really glad that you corrected me, even though you weren't really correcting me, because I agree with you. But I did.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I was. I was just being nice about it.

[Zachary Robertson]

Well, no, I mean, I agree with you, though. You corrected what I said, but not necessarily what I believe, because I did say baptizing a church, but I actually said in my sermon, I was like, if you look at what's happening in the Exodus story, there's a whole lot in this. But even like, I got into this whole idea of God hardening Pharaoh's heart, which is a whole controversial thing around that. But if you read it in its context, there's a reason why God was doing all that. And it's very, very clear in the book of Exodus that God has an intention. He says in Exodus 6 that I did not tell. He's talking to Moses. He said, I didn't tell anybody else my name. He said, when I appear to your forefathers, Abraham, Genesis, chapter 12, Isaac his son, Jacob, his grandson, he said, when I appeared to those guys, he said, I did not tell them my name. I appeared to them as God Almighty. He said to you, I'm actually telling you my name. I've never done that before. You're the first one that knows my name. My name's Yahweh. I am what I am. I am that I am. Exodus chapter three, you know my name. And so at the the intention of God in the entire Exodus story, one of the main intentions of God is to make his name known. And he says, I want my name not just to be known to you, but I want you to take my name. And I want it to be known throughout the entire earth. And so part of the picture of what God's doing here is he's taken his name Yahweh, and it's spreading across all the globe. And the Gentiles one day will also know the name of God. And so when they go through that Red Sea moment, that's a picture. It's a prototype of baptism. Because they go through water, they're actually saved through water. They go through the water to find salvation. And all of their problems, their sin, which would be Pharaoh and the Egyptians, get swallowed up in the water. That's a metaphor of us. Then you got Joshua Parting of the Jordan river, same thing. They enter into the promise and they go through the water. Then you got Noah, they go through the water to find salvation. So there's this idea continued throughout Scripture. You're going through the water. But when you get to the New Testament, where all this lines up is you go through the water. But when you're baptized in the New Testament, you're not baptized into a church. You're not baptized into a movement. You're not baptized into an idea. No, you're actually baptized into what?

[Jase Robertson]

A name, Person.

[Zachary Robertson]

You're baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, of a person. And so the name of God, Yahweh. Jesus is Yahweh. He's the word of Yahweh. He has a name. His name is Jesus. So now we're baptized into a name, into a person. Which is why when he says in Second Peter, when he talks about baptism, he says, it's not the water. Don't get hung up on the water part. It is the water. It's part of it. But the water doesn't make you clean. He says it's not the removal of dirt from the flesh. What is it then? It's an appeal or a pledge of a good conscience to God, Toward God. But my conscience isn't good towards God. So how do I pledge a conscience that I don't have? That's why I like the word appeal better. Because as me coming to God, saying my conscience is not clean. God, because I know what I've done and I need it clean. Well, how are you going to do that? Well, we'll do that by connecting you with the resurrection of Christ. It saves you. Peter says, by what? The resurrection of the crucial Christ.

[Jase Robertson]

The resurrection of the Christ. I had this written down in the notes. I mean, I was headed there because I think when you think, oh, it all stopped at the cross. That's why people don't understand baptism. It's about the resurrection. You're trusting the Father because think about everything Jesus did. And you don't notice this unless you read the Book of John verse by verse. It's all about vindication on him being here from the Father and only doing what the Father has planned. He's trusting the Father. Well, what's human's problems? Why do we get into. Why do we choose sin? Well, we're not trusting the Father. That's why he did it perfectly, which is amazing.

[Phil Robertson]

And Jason, you know the crux point? You look at Matthew 3, when Jesus went to John in the desert and Said, you need to baptize me. And John didn't want to do it. He said, well, I mean, you're way better than me. You know, I mean, he recognized who Jesus was in that moment. And Jesus says, we're doing this to fulfill righteousness. And you know what happens when he comes out of the water, Zach? The voice of Yahweh says, this is my son.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah, good point. Yeah. You know, it's actually kind of crazy to think about it, but, Jace, can you imagine if. If we just. If we really. If we really, like, pushed out the logic of. Of how we typically talk about baptism as being only about the cross, then here's the picture of baptism. You die in the grave, in the watery grave of baptism. And, well, you just die. That's not the full picture, though. It is a death. It is a funeral. That is partly true, right? When we bury someone in baptism, yeah, we do bury the old man, but it's also a birth. And so the resurrection, the resurrection of Christ matters because not only are we buried with Christ was Romans 6. 8. We are also raised with Christ. To do what? To live a new life, to be free from the bondage of sin. To live with him, to abode with Christ. To use that song of Moses language.

[Jase Robertson]

That's why I keep bringing up this John 10. Maybe I should read it in verse 18 where Jesus said, no one takes it from me. You just said, the reason my Father loves me is 1710. 1718. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I receive from my Father. And I think when you read Romans 6 and it says, we're baptized into Christ Jesus, we were therefore buried with him into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. Then it gets into what I read about. He can never die again. Death no longer has this mastery over it. I mean, when you put all that together, I mean, you should be running. I mean, like, oh, I get to do this, and I think that's powerful. And then when I think you get to Romans 8, which is only two, two chapters later, he then explains it furthermore, all in the mind of the Resurrection, because He says, Romans 8. 6. Listen to this. The mind of sinful man is death. Just take that statement. The mind of sinful man is death. But the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace. The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those who are controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. That's why we're fixed to read all these things. When it says they have ears and don't understand and they have hearts they can't see, they are in darkness. What's the problem? They don't want to see. They have their own view of God and it is not Jesus at the center. And then it says, you however, are controlled not by the sinful nature, but by the Spirit. If the Spirit of God lives in you, well, when do you get the Spirit? That's a good question. And if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body's dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And then of all the places that he goes, he goes down to this. Back to the slavery. The same picture y' all are talking about in Exodus and Pharaoh. Look what he says it says in verse 13. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die. But if the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. Because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear. Well, immediately, where do you go back and think the liberation that occurred in the book of Exodus? Yeah, but this is a better liberation. This is not just to be freed from some earthly force in Egypt. This is from death itself. That's why I read the Romans 6.

[Zachary Robertson]

If you've listened to this podcast for any amount of time, you know that the three of us, we truly believe in long term discipleship. It's the reason why we talk about Tomorrow Clubs because they are a Christ centered ministry. Lots of kids start their relationship with Jesus Christ at a local Tomorrow Clubs camp. It really is incredible. And despite the risk of extreme persecution, Tomorrow Clubs held a summer camp for 80 teenagers in Belarus, where most campers had never heard of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. On the final night, nearly every teen responded to the call to follow Jesus. I love to hear stories like this, but I can't get enough of them in a place hostile to the gospel. Hearts were changed. We want to partner with these guys because we believe in what they're doing, we believe in long term discipleship relationships and we believe in partnering with local churches which is what the Tomorrow clubs are doing. So here's our goal. Our goal is to bring Christ centered discipleship to 3,000 kids this summer through 30 Bible camps around the world. And we're asking our listeners, unashamed listeners, to help us get there. You guys have already raised $19,037, but we still need to raise an additional $10,963 to reach our goal. Just $1,000 sponsors a full five day camp for 100 kids. Any amount will help sponsor a day camp for $200 or send 10 kids to camp for $100. Go to tomorrowclubs.org 30camps or simply text 30camps to 44321 to give. Now that's tomorrowclubs.org 30cands or text 30camps to 44321. Let's help bring the gospel to thousands of kids around the world because they went back to it. I mean, think about the Israelites. Even after they part went through the Red Sea. The future is not bright. You know what I'm saying?

[Jase Robertson]

Well, exactly. So, so I want to get to verse 23. Not only so, but we ourselves who have the first fruits of the spirit. First fruit. Jesus was the first fruits of the resurrection. He poured out his spirit and then we became. We have the first fruits of the Spirit. We groan inwardly. Look as we eagerly, as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. So it's all tied into the resurrection now and later we have God's spirit because we are participating in Christ. We've become Christ through our death, our burial and resurrection. And one day we will have the redemption of our body. For in this hope we were saved. Of course, then it goes on to say verse 29. For those God foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among the brothers. I mean, I think when you put all those things together, you see one, the problem with these people saying the resurrection's already taken place. Because I'm looking at a picture of Jesus resurrected body. Sure, he raised Lazarus, but that was a, that was a sign, that was a miracle. He died later. But when Jesus came back, what came back? They go in and they believed in what they didn't see. Which was his body. Where was the body? It wasn't there. You know, in chapter one, it starts off remembering Jesus. First words, come and see. Well, then Mary at the tomb said, come and see. I can't find his body. And then it says, they believed based on what they saw, but it's what they didn't see. That's what they saw. They didn't see the body.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And they're like the clothes are wrapped up. And Al, you made a point, I think you were going to make a point in the notes about the difference in Lazarus's death and resurrection in Jesus. What were those? You.

[Phil Robertson]

So it was like one was four days and one was three. And there was. I think there's some. A reasoning for that because the Jewish people believe that your spirit hung around for maybe up to three days to make sure you were really dead. And this isn't in the Bible. This was just, you know, anecdotally what's. What was believed. So, you know, that may be one of the reasons why Jesus delayed. Of course, Jesus's was three days, you know, and he came back. One's temporary, one's eternal, one's flesh and blood mentioned, you know, in the text, and one's flesh and bone, which was interesting, the way that Luke describes Jesus when he came back. And then also I was thinking the, the, you know, when Lazarus came out of the tomb, he's all wrapped up like a mummy. You know, they're like, Jesus, like, get the. Get all those grave clothes off, you know, because they wrap you up in all these spices and I mean, you know, he's wearing a suit that probably weighed 100 pounds worth of stuff on him. But when Jesus, to your point, all that was in his tomb was a neatly folded burial cloth.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And he was gone. The body was out of there. Which, you know, and that's the difference, you know, for any of us. Jason, it's interesting because you and I, it hit me when we were. We got the honor to speak at Dad's, you know, homegoing, I guess you'd call her crossover. And it just, we. We both. We all kind of realize that we all mentioned it, that we were in the same space, the same spot that 50 years earlier, we were standing there in front of a baptistry that's not even there anymore and watched him, you know, totally surrender himself to God when he was, you know, 29 years old. Now 79 years old, he. That same body is laying in a box 20ft away from where he died and was resurrected in newness and righteousness. And so, I mean, I don't know about you, but I left there feeling full of hope and. And full of renewed life. That man, when the, when that resurrection happens, when that final crossover happens, that's going to be a Great day.

[Jase Robertson]

Exactly. Well, I wanted to go through that Romans 8, because when we were started off with Exoduses, the song of Moses. But when you get to Revelation 5, here we go again. That you get to. And this is all talking about the lamb. Chapter five. The lamb. The lamb. He's seeing this vision of the lamb. We all know who the lamb is in heaven. But what I love is in verse nine, as they're looking at this lamb, looking as if he had been slain, but he's back, it says, they sang a new song. Jesus. The song to Jesus is better than the song of Moses.

[Zachary Robertson]

Yeah, they sang a song to the lamb.

[Jase Robertson]

They did. Worthy is the lamb.

[Zachary Robertson]

Worthy is the lamb.

[Jase Robertson]

It says worthy, but it also says, for he purchased. There's your liberation, which is their word for, you know, when you see that they were bought at a price in their day, in wartime and all, that you could be a prisoner just because you lost a war or whatever and they made you a slave. And, you know, liberation is what God pulled off getting them out from under Pharaoh, which they don't even use the Pharaoh as a name because it was the legacy of powers that set themselves up as the authority of God. God's like, no, there's only one true authority. And I've given you this. I've given you this ability which they were supposed to be doing it in honor of God. It was the whole reason God came. But after he purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. That's why it's not when we say, you know, people, places and things. What matters in the Bible are people and God where. Where we're going to be. And that's why I did the whole bit on the street streets of go, what you should be. The picture God is giving you revelation is you get up in the morning because of what Jesus did for you. And you're like, I'm a street of gold, not I'm walking on one. I am the street of gold with jewels. And I'm expensive. And it, you know, you're getting to Jesus purchasing you is why you're expensive. I mean, you see where I did that?

[Phil Robertson]

Remember you did the thing about the. The light, the pure light that shines through.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I thought that would do it, but evidently not. You know what I mean? We're still waiting to go on some street of gold. I mean, I'm a treasure hunter. I love to uncover a street of gold. Oh, why are we going through.

[Zachary Robertson]

That's childish.

[Jase Robertson]

It's way better for me to Realize God has made me a street of gold.

[Zachary Robertson]

Well, I love that you brought that up, dad. That's what. Dad, he ended with just what you ended with there, that there's a better song than the song of Moses, and it's the one they end up singing that we all end up singing at the end. And it's the song of the lamb, it's the song of victory, it's the song of Jesus. And I mean, that's the hope right there is what you just said.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I know we're going to have to have a part three on this resurrection because we're almost out of time, but I was just going to go ahead and hit Peter at the gate. The gate. He unlocked the gate in Acts 2, and he started talking about Jesus of Nazareth in verse 22. And he said, look, he. He was a man accredited by God. And you go back to Acts 1, when Jesus went to the right hand, remember, the clouds were up there. It said, this same Jesus whom you've seen. I'm making a big point of this because it's the same one that ate fish, that hugged Mary, that appeared to the disciples. He had a new body. There was no body. The resurrection hasn't occurred. Jesus resurrection has. And the implications, especially from First John 3, that when we see him, when he appears, we will be like him. So in our version, but when Peter preaches that Sermon in verse 23, it says, this man was handed over to you by God. Set purpose, verse 24. God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was not possible for death to keep its hold on him. That's why he's different. That's why that moment is salvation in its purest form. Sin and death. And the fact that he's still alive right now, representing us. So that's where the gate was unlocked, at the pearly gates. And that was the rock that the church was built on. I love it.

[Phil Robertson]

We're. We are out of time, but we will pick it up. The resurrection goes on. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.