Ep 1131 | Phil’s Secret to Getting Away with Blunt Truth & Transformation Leads to Resurrection

Summary

Summary of Episode 1131 | Phil’s Secret to Getting Away with Blunt Truth & Transformation Leads to Resurrection

Podcast Information:

• Title: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
• Host/Author: Tread Lively
• Description: The Robertson family openly shares their Christian faith, aiming to spread the Gospel from new believers to seasoned followers of Jesus. Hosted by Phil, Al, Jase, Zach Robertson, and special guests, the podcast moves beyond traditional church settings to discuss God's Word and Bible studies, enriched with fun and inspiring family stories from West Monroe, Louisiana.
• Episode: Ep 1131 | Phil’s Secret to Getting Away with Blunt Truth & Transformation Leads to Resurrection
• Release Date: July 23, 2025

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Key Topics Covered:

1. Introduction to Unashamed Living [01:01 - 02:40]

   • Jase Robertson sets the tone by declaring, "I am unashamed. What about you?" (01:01), inviting listeners to embrace their faith boldly.

   • The conversation quickly shifts to personal health, with Zach Robertson discussing his goal of breaking the 200-pound barrier and Al Robertson humorously sharing his own weight and dietary choices.

2. Health and Weight Loss Journey [02:40 - 07:08]

   • Zach proudly shares, "I've lost 38 pounds" (02:26), highlighting his dedication to personal transformation.

   • The Robertson family discusses the impact of their health journeys, reinforcing the importance of discipline and perseverance. Jase humorously admits to his struggles with weight management, interacting lightheartedly with his brothers.

3. Phil Robertson’s Blunt Guidance [07:08 - 11:38]

   • The conversation delves into Phil Robertson's unique approach to guidance. Jase reminisces, "Cameras do not lie. They tell the truth" (02:26), emphasizing Phil's no-nonsense attitude.

   • Zach shares a recent experience where he used Phil’s technique by asking, "How do you feel right now?" (06:04), leading to meaningful personal confessions during a church event.

4. Promotion and Discussion on "The Blind" Movie [07:08 - 11:38]

   • Zach announces the re-release of Phil Robertson's movie "The Blind" through Fathom Events, citing growing interest in Phil's life and legacy (07:16).

   • Jase expresses his involvement, stating, "I'll go ahead and cut to the chase. Most things you ask me, I say no. But in this case I actually said yes" (07:53).

   • Al shares the emotional impact of Phil's voiceover at the movie's end, highlighting its profound effect on viewers (08:07).

5. Personal Faith Stories and Baptism Tales [11:38 - 23:19]

   • Jase recounts a heartfelt story about baptizing an 18-year-old struggling with his past, emphasizing the transformative power of faith (19:32).

   • Al discusses the significance of baptism within their ministry, sharing moments where faith intersects with personal lives (19:12).

   • These narratives underscore the family's commitment to guiding others towards a meaningful relationship with Christ.

6. In-Depth Bible Study: Death and Resurrection [23:19 - 56:04]

   • The Robertson brothers engage in a profound theological discussion about the resurrection's role in understanding salvation. Jase mentions, "Jesus always was thinking of that, the cross, what he came here to do, and the resurrection as a revealing of the overarching story of the Bible" (37:18).

   • Zach explores the concept of expiation, stating, "If you detach the death of Jesus from the resurrection...you're not focusing on, well, what am I? What, why did he do this? What's the result of this?" (37:45).

   • The dialogue references multiple Bible verses, including John 11, First Corinthians 15, Isaiah 6, and Zechariah 6, illustrating the resurrection motif throughout Scripture.

   • Jase concludes, "It's redemption, it's resurrection, it's new life" (53:15), emphasizing the intertwined nature of Jesus' death and resurrection in the salvation narrative.

7. Closing Thoughts and Future Discussions [56:04 - 57:00]

   • Al reflects on the importance of viewing Jesus' sacrifice holistically, integrating both his death and resurrection to fully grasp the scope of redemption (52:39).

   • The family hints at upcoming episodes that will delve deeper into the resurrection's significance and its impact on believers' lives.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jase Robertson 01:01: "I am unashamed. What about you?"

• Zach Robertson 02:26: "I've lost 38 pounds."

• Zach Robertson 07:08: "We've got another piece of special content."

• Jase Robertson 53:15: "It's redemption, it's resurrection, it's new life."

• Zach Robertson 37:45: "If you detach the death of Jesus from the resurrection...you're not focusing on, well, what am I? What, why did he do this? What's the result of this?"

• Jase Robertson 44:01: "When you detach the death of Jesus from the resurrection, you're not focusing on...the result of this."

Timestamps:

• 01:01: Jase declares being unashamed.
• 02:26: Zach shares his weight loss.
• 07:08: Announcement about "The Blind" movie.
• 19:12: Al discusses baptism stories.
• 37:18: Jase on combining Jesus' death and resurrection.
• 37:45: Zach explores expiation in salvation.
• 44:01: Jase on theological implications.
• 53:15: Jase summarizes the themes of redemption and resurrection.
• 56:04: Al wraps up with future discussions.

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Conclusion:

In Episode 1131 of "Unashamed with the Robertson Family," the Robertson brothers delve into personal transformations, the enduring influence of Phil Robertson’s straightforward guidance, and the profound theological implications of Jesus' death and resurrection. Through heartfelt stories and deep Bible study, they emphasize the holistic nature of salvation, integrating both atonement and resurrection as essential facets of Christian faith. The episode underscores the family's commitment to sharing authentic faith journeys, encouraging listeners to embrace their own transformations and understand the comprehensive narrative of redemption through Christ.

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Related Links:

• Mr. Penn Bible Journaling Kits: mrpenn.com
• Rocket Money: RocketMoney.com
• Chef IQ Sense: chefiq.com
• I Am Second: IAmSecond.com

Note: The transcript contained advertisements and promotional segments for sponsors. These have been omitted from the summary to focus solely on the core content of the podcast.

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#UnashamedPodcast #RobertsonFamily #FaithJourney #BibleStudy #Resurrection #Redemption

Transcript

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[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Zach Robertson]

What you eat, Al? Are you. Are you off the wagon? Do you. Do you fall off the wagon, son?

[Al Robertson]

No, no, no, no, no. Side of side of eggs and a side of sausage.

[Zach Robertson]

Okay, well, you know, our Uncle Zach's about to hit a milestone. We're going to talk about sub 200. Ooh, I was too. 238 at the. @ the fattest.

[Jase Robertson]

Keep this up, you're no longer going to look like J.D. vance. And that's a problem for you.

[Al Robertson]

I don't think she's gotta hold on to the dating.

[Zach Robertson]

I look like. I look like a. Like Justin Bieber if I keep losing weight. I think we're recording now. I looked at pictures, Al. I think we're actually rolling.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, and I've been sub 200 for a minute, Zach, so just. I'm just.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, I. Well, but I'm a bigger guy. I'm taller. I'm 6 foot 1. That's true. What are you, about 5, 10?

[Al Robertson]

5 10.

[Zach Robertson]

So I'm looking at. So we're moving into a new church building. Somebody gave us a church building again. We got two church buildings now. God's being good.

[Al Robertson]

You got a lot of buildings.

[Zach Robertson]

Got a lot of buildings. We upgraded to a bigger building, hosts a few more people. Jill had the idea that she was going to print all of the pictures of the baptisms of people that have been baptized in the church over the last several years and make like a collage on a wall. And I was shocked to see how fat I was. I mean, I was like. I was like, golly, I really have just kind of been chipping away at this thing, but I've lost 38 pounds.

[Al Robertson]

The one thing's for sure, Zach, because I get a lot of comments from people that watch the podcast on tv. Cameras do not lie. They tell the truth. So no matter how you're seeing yourself in the mirror, the camera tells all.

[Zach Robertson]

The camera doesn't lie. Jason didn't care. He checks out. We talk about health. He's just like, he's out. He doesn't care. He eats sweet potato pie for breakfast, and he's still £170. I don't know how you do it.

[Al Robertson]

He's got the high burner.

[Zach Robertson]

I got the high burner.

[Jase Robertson]

I haven't weighed in years, but, yeah, I'm figuring that someone will let me know once I need to start staying away from entire bags of zaps potato chips of which I destroyed last night.

[Zach Robertson]

You could be skinny. You could be skinny fat, though. You know what that is, don't you, where you're. You've heard that phrase, right?

[Al Robertson]

Is that like skinny popcorn?

[Jase Robertson]

You know, Zach, I've never heard that.

[Al Robertson]

I've never heard that.

[Zach Robertson]

It's like you're. You look skinny, but like, you're actually fat. Like, everything is fat. It's like, but you're small, but it's just. It's like not. You're not healthy.

[Al Robertson]

That's an oxymoron. You can't be skinny fat.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, well, I believe there's a verse in the Bible that says, man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart. So I'm just going to let that.

[Al Robertson]

So, Jay, since you. Since on the last podcast, I think, was the last podcast, you brought in a new segment, I had not thought about this, but is this the way it's going to happen? It's just going to pop into our heads for the. What would Phil say if he were here and. And taking part in this discussion? And you. When you said it a minute ago, it made me think about it, because dad was always. Dad was the kind of person. He kind of. When he wanted to give you a challenge, it was kind of directional. He didn't really. He didn't really take you on head. He didn't want to hurt your feelings, but he didn't really care. But then at the same time, he wanted to say something, so he would say, I mean, Al, you know, when you can't fit through the door.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

It may be time to take a look at it. And I Was like, well, I walked. I walked in here today, dad. He was like, yeah, but I mean, there'll come a time you can't fit through the door. And I was like, okay, I hear it. I'm gonna work on it. So that's. That's another. What would Phil say if he were here? That's one of his.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah. Phil wasn't very. What's the word I'm looking for? He wasn't very sensitive to the weight issue. He would. I mean, he would kind of tell.

[Jase Robertson]

You that all stems from just saying what you're thinking.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

So which people would call that insensitive. And maybe they have a point. But there was a bluntness to Phil that he got away with. Because when you think about what he just said, and if your feelings were hurt, as the more you thought about it, you would say, you know, he's got a point. Yeah. So it's like the end of the day. That's why I feel like people weren't offended or offended the right way. Because, you know, he'd be right, Al. It's weird. When I walked in, I greeted young Maddie with one of Phil's sayings, but she didn't realize that was one of Phil's sayings. So I said, I think I. Yeah, I introduced a thought when. When you kind of go back and think about things. He would say, but when I saw Mattie, I said, how do you feel right now?

[Al Robertson]

Oh, that's it.

[Jase Robertson]

That's classic. And Matty was like, oh, I feel great. You know, how do you feel? I was like, no, you don't realize. I was playing out the segment. That was a preview. Phil used to say that.

[Zach Robertson]

How do you feel right now?

[Al Robertson]

Right now?

[Jase Robertson]

Me and other people in my presence, hundreds of times. He would just look up and he would say, jase. And I'd say, yep. He'd say, how do you feel right now? I don't really have a point of bringing that up. It was just something he did.

[Al Robertson]

Trust me, Jace, he didn't really have a point either. But he would take whatever you said to lead into the next conversation.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, it's actually a brilliant technique that I use it. I did it. I actually did that Sunday. We had a little get together at the house with the church. And one of the young ladies at the church, name's Ruth, not my daughter Ruth, another Ruth. And she walked out, said, hey, Ruth. I said, how do you feel right now? I actually asked her that. Learned that from Phil. She's like, what? What? And like, she felt like the need, like she said, I feel like compelled to confess something right now. I was like, but I mean, it kind of makes you feel a little bit, you know. And Si would do this one. What about it? And I'd be like, what about what? Like what? It's confusing. It's a little jarring the way he asked.

[Al Robertson]

But SA is always backwards. Because if he says yeah, yeah, he means no. But if he says yeah, yeah, no, then that means yes.

[Zach Robertson]

I do have some news though. I got a call from Fathom Events, which is who we did the blind release through this past week and they said they want to bring the blind back to the big screen for like just like a five day run. And at the end of August, kinda.

[Al Robertson]

Like a one year anniversary or two years or whatever the time frame, I.

[Zach Robertson]

Think they just were like, man, like there's a lot of buzz around Phil's life right now and we think this would be a good time to do like a five day release. They we need one piece of special content. And so I've asked my cousin Jace to engage.

[Jase Robertson]

I'll go ahead and cut to the chase. Most things you ask me, I say no. But in this case I actually said yes. So I love it.

[Al Robertson]

Jace.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I thought it was a good idea. I thought it was a good idea.

[Al Robertson]

It was like the. And Jace contributed a thought to the end of the movie. It was. I heard later it was his idea to Zach that the. The end of it when it fades to black and then you hear Phil's modern voice, which. Which gave me chills in the theater to hear it because I didn't know it was coming. And then for him to be able in real time, and especially now that he's crossed over to him in real time, to be able to speak into his life. And what it meant was very powerful.

[Jase Robertson]

It was. I'm glad you said that, Al, because you know the biggest problem with people who produce things. Oh, I just went ahead and said that. You realize that when I just. Everybody is a part of the production you're now listening to, except one person, that would be me. So everybody got nervous that you're listening to and the production.

[Zach Robertson]

That is how he disassociates himself, guys. But go ahead.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, no, well, that's a true. Is that not true? I'm not. I just show up. But what I was going to say is, so Zach, you know, he worked for I don't know how long on the movie the Blind, but a lot. It was a dominant time of his.

[Al Robertson]

Life, like a Couple of years.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. He's pouring into this. So he asked me to help promote it. And so we had a really awkward conversation. And I said, well, Zach, I know you're a young producer in the producer world, but for me to promote this, I'm going to have to watch it.

[Zach Robertson]

Which I assumed you would watch it.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, but you didn't say that. So that was my first response. So I watched it, which was very difficult because it brought back a lot of memories of my childhood that I had, like, tucked away in a place that I didn't really want to go. So it was very emotional watching it and I thought they did a good job. But my response to him, because it was very. It's very difficult to tell someone who just put two years in his life, you know, what I really think, But I just thought, well, I'm going to have to do this. I said, I think it's very well done. I said, the problem is Phil's not going to like it. And he was like, what? What are you talking about? He's not going to like it? I mean, I don't know if you remember that conversation, Zach.

[Zach Robertson]

Oh, yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

But I said, he's going to want. This is going to be, you know, part of his legacy. And the bottom line is his legacy. What he most talked about of all the phrases, and we're doing this little segment, but the thing that was like a broken record in a good way was the simple message of Jesus. I said, he's going to want that in there, so you need to figure out how to do that. And I think I said, I recommend that after the movie's over, you just let him sum up why, what you just saw, why he changed, and let him give the simple message that he's given ten thousands of times. And so, which I figured, I'm talking to a guy producing something, it's not going to happen. But I think he did it and I think that made him happy.

[Al Robertson]

We have Dad's last Bible on set here at Unashamed, and it is full of his ideas, little sermon ideas, little write outs that he had when he was sharing with people.

[Jase Robertson]

Highlights, underline, duct tape.

[Zach Robertson]

My biggest pet peeve about writing in the Bible or highlighting anything is it always bleeds through on the other page, which that always drove me nuts. But we have a new partner now, Mr. Pen, and they make some of the best Bible journaling tools and pens out there, including. Are you ready for this? Highlighters and pens that don't bleed through the pages.

[Al Robertson]

I've got The ESV Journaling Bible. And I like it because it has these empty pages.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah, I've got the Hosanna Revival journaling Bible from Mr. Penn. That's perfect because I can keep track of all my notes in here and the margins have so much space to jot down my thoughts when I'm studying the word. Sadie's been recommending these highlighters, by the way, for a long time. She also loves their transparent sticky notes, which I've started to use as well. They're great for preaching or just being able to see the verses behind your notes. And Mr. Penn Bible and journaling kits, they make the perfect gifts. These guys have pencils and highlighters that don't bleed through the pages. Find tipped pens and other accessories that help personalize your Bible. See right here, I'm in Mark 13. Cause we were just talking about it on the podcast and I have this verse underlined in Mark 13. It did not bleed through on the other page. Mr. Penn has over 100,000 five star reviews on Amazon and it's really easy to see why. So right now you can get 10% off your first order with our code Unashamed at checkout. Check out the products that we use in our [e-mail] Unashame. That's MrP E N.com Unashamed code Unashamed. Well, it was kind of like a divinely inspired moment because the phrase you said was. You said, you said everything you just said, but then you said, here's what I'm saying. You don't have the phrase, the death, the burial and the resurrection of Jesus. You got to have. That was the. The thing and that you said, he's going to want that in there. And so you had mentioned that, which I was kind of like, when you said it, I was kind of like, at first, like, man, you can't just go, like, change things like that. You know what I mean?

[Jase Robertson]

Well, that was the part of consternation I knew you had. You're like, no, it's done. I was like, it's not done. You wanted my opinion. I'm giving you my opinion. I said, I think there needs to be something in there where he's like, okay, you just saw it, or whatever. There needs to be a speech that he would give on why specifically what he's driven about, which I think it goes into where we're at. Even in John 11, when you think about Jesus every time. This is a very profound. I know we went from just cheery. What's Going on. Let's talk about the blind to. I'm giving a very profound thought. Jesus himself, when he predicted his death, always added the resurrection. I mean, hundreds of times. Maybe not hundreds. It's a ton when he brought it up. Yeah, at least dozens. He would say that the Son of man would be given over to the hands of men. He would be buried, he would be raised, he would come back to life. And so I think there's a reason for that. And so I think when you boil it all down, and it's not because, you know, the Corinthians had to be reminded of that, that's where usually where people go, but I go to Jesus himself. He kept saying that over and over. Well, there's got to be a reason. And I would like to explore that in a future conversation.

[Al Robertson]

Well, it's funny, Jay, since we started with the what Would Phil say Segment, one of the things he used to say a lot, because we get a lot of books sent to us and people write a lot of books. And so there was always a lot of books around all of us, but especially dad. And dad would always say, you know somebody, if you send me a book and I pick it up and I read the first chapter two, and nowhere the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus is mentioned, then that's it. It's not a book for me. And that's one of the things he just always said, it's got to start, you know, and end with, with who Jesus is. I, I do want to take this moment of, in this conversation to give a shout out to our good friends that I Am Second. Because that piece, that bite, that's at the end. We've done a lot of stuff on the I Am Second website. And I know we get a wide ranging new people, a lot of new people, the audience. If you've never checked out I Am Second. It's a fantastic website of testimony of people's lives. And it's a lot of athletes and people you recognize a lot of musicians. And our family's on there too. And they're the ones that Zach, you partner with those guys to do that last bite. And it's so powerful. This have a great way of interviewing people.

[Zach Robertson]

Well, that was, that was the crazy thing about it. When Jay said that to me that same day, like that, that morning, they, they were in studio and something happened where you connected me with Angie, who runs I Am Second.

[Al Robertson]

Well, they were doing a video for Brian Rucker, who's been on our podcast already. And so we've Just piggybacked on that and you flew dad out to get it done.

[Zach Robertson]

Oh, it was like. It was the perfect thing. And so it's kind of. To me, it's kind of full circle that Jace is going to do this second piece of content that will be special for this release because actually, I didn't think about that when I even asked him to do it, but that started with him saying to me, you got to put this in there. And. And so, yeah, I mean, I think. Yeah, I think that's going to be pretty powerful. And even the rerelease is going to be a time I think you can take people that don't know Jesus, because that film was. I was really not just the film. This podcast, I've been. I just continue to be shocked by the amount of people that will come in and listen to our content based on Life of Phil, based on the funny stories. But what they all run into is they all run into Jesus in the end. And there has. It's literally we've gotten thousands and thousands of emails on the movie and the podcast of just people really finding a relationship with Christ that's centered on that very simple message of the death of Jesus for our sins, his burial and his resurrection from the dead.

[Al Robertson]

Still, you know, in honor of dad, we still carry on our unashamed Bible study. Jersey Joe leads it every Sunday at wfr. So, because a lot of you come through and you kind of want to experience White Spirit Road because, you know, you hear us talk about all the time. And sometimes I'm there, sometimes I'm not. Sometimes Jace is there, sometimes he's not. But it's pretty constant that we're going to have some presence there of someone sharing Jesus. So you'll always know what's the most important thing is. And there are. People get baptized regularly. There's a young man, I'm assuming he's young, that has been listing up in Joplin, Missouri, and he's coming through next weekend. And I just happened to be there in town, and he wanted me to baptize him. I said, absolutely. You hit it just right. It's a divine appointment. We'll be in my swimming pool next weekend. So it's just, you know, we. We get it, we understand it, and we love it. We love being a part of it. Because like Zach said, it's nothing we've done. It's always been what God has worked through us. And so we take no glory or no credit for anything that happens. Any of you that has your lives have Been changed by the podcast. It ain't the three of us or even dad. It's. It's what Christ.

[Jase Robertson]

Now, I think the draw is the spirit of the Lord. And I had a similar situation the last time I saw y', all, which was a couple of days ago. We did a couple of podcasts because.

[Al Robertson]

We'Ve done six podcasts. Well, after today, we will have done six this week.

[Jase Robertson]

So, yeah, it's a lot. And I haven't had as much study time since the last time I saw y'.

[Al Robertson]

All.

[Jase Robertson]

But because I've been doing Jesus stuff, which are randomly occurring, and one of those things was a young man was driving through with his mom. And I say young man, he was 18, but look 30, big guy, you know, tough looking guy, and no father figure in his life. And the church building, the people who you work with, Al they sent me and you a text. You were in Alabama. But I was like, well, I'm here, I'm driving through. So I went up there and talked to him. And my first thing is, usually, look, Christ didn't send me to baptize, but you preach the gospel. And this guy didn't have a lot to say. And I literally asked the same question. We started with, you know, I said, well, how do you feel? Cuz I was asking him, qu. I was trying to see where we're at. Why are you here? What's going on? What's your story? You know, that was another field line. What's your story?

[Al Robertson]

Everybody's got a story. What's yours?

[Jase Robertson]

He just, he just wasn't saying anything. And some of the people at the church were talking to the mom and they kind of gave us a. We were sitting on the front row in the. In the big auditorium and it was kind of dimly lit, you know. And so basically when I said, how do you feel? Well, he just got teared up. And I thought, okay, you know, you don't have to tell me how you feel. I see how you feel.

[Al Robertson]

You're.

[Jase Robertson]

You're broken here. And so figured out that, you know, it's. When you don't have a father figure, you. It's going to be tough. And the. And his father was reminded me of our father Phil when we were kids before Jesus. And so I think that was the connection, you know, in his life and growing up and becoming a teenager, he kind of found an oasis in the duck show. It was a good distraction. And I think when you have family problems and you watch a family that is. There's something there that spark what we're saying, of course, it's the spirit of God, but people in the world, they don't know that. They're just like, man, that must be nice. That looks fun. These people are laughing. They're getting along. And so that became the foundation of me sharing Jesus, which is basically God getting his human family back together through Jesus. And in essence, it put our family back together. And not saying that that's going to happen every time to your earthly family, but it gives you all the components for that to happen. When you start talking about new creation, forgiveness, hope of the resurrection, I mean, all these things. Love, joy, peace through his spirit, all these qualities that make great relationships. And so, of course, it led to him being baptized. And I asked what his confession was, and it was just, he was a man of few words. But, Bo, I tell you, when he said that with confidence that Jesus, he wanted Jesus to be his Lord and savior of his life, it was real touching. It was fantastic. And I think it shows you just in our world, the two kingdoms at work in his life. Here he is contemplating with all his buddies. And all because we got into his life, whether he's going to be a gang member or a part of Jesus is gang. And I think he chose wisely.

[Zach Robertson]

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[Al Robertson]

And the neat thing about it, Jase, if we could, you know, and we may or may not be able to, but if you could follow the pathway of this young man as he grows older and he starts a family and, you know, connects and leads other people to Christ, if it follows the pathway now that the Holy Spirit will guide him into, as long as he keeps following it. It's going to be amazing to see the fruit of what would happen versus obviously the fruit of what would be a bad situation. And that's the beauty of it. You don't have to. I mean, I was the same age when I turned it around 18. Me. It's like, I get it. I need, this is where I need to be. And I've been doing it ever since. You know, something happened this last week and it has nothing to do with the spiritual accept aspect of what we're talking about and yet everything. I don't know if you're aware of this, Jace, but, but a couple of weeks ago, Nick Saban was inducted into the Louisiana Sports hall of Fame, of which, by the way, our, our own dad, Phil Robertson is also in that same hall of Fame, more for his hunting exploits, but also some of his athletic stuff. But when I was reading what Saban, Saban came. He came to, he came to it. He participated in the events all weekend. And, and I went there with dad. So I know kind of what that entails and it's a commitment because you're there for a whole weekend doing things with other people that go in, in your class. And, but I was reading the comments he made and it made me feel good because, you know, there's always kind of been a love hate relationship in Louisiana with Saban because he turned us around. But he winds up at Alabama who we hate you. And I say that hate in quotes because we don't really hate you, Alabama. We love you.

[Zach Robertson]

No, you hate him. You hate him. It's.

[Al Robertson]

Well now just, just when the football teams.

[Zach Robertson]

I'm married to an Alabama fan, so I, I'm. But yeah, it's a little annoying.

[Al Robertson]

So, so anyway, all the time now he's retired, which makes it easier. But I just love the fact that he's in the hall of Fame, and he's talking about how much he loved Louisiana, how much when they came there, what it meant to him. He talks about the people and he talked about the relationships in his, like, speech that he made, you know, when he was inducted. And I thought, well, that's really what it's about. Like, you can you make decisions in your life that alienate some people, attracts other people. But at the end of the day, you know, you want to be loved, you want to be forgiven, you want to be trusted, you know, all the blessings that come along with life. And so I thought, I'm so glad that now, LA people, I'm hoping they can embrace what Nick Saban did for LSU in Louisiana. It's just a football thing, but at the same time, it is kind of a bigger thumbnail of really the whole picture of kind of how you want to live your life, you know, So I was impacted by that, but I didn't know if you knew that, Jason. I was going to share that with you.

[Jase Robertson]

I didn't know that, but I think it's cool. Well, how are we transitioning from our last two podcasts? I thought those were.

[Al Robertson]

Well, so here's what I thought. They were great. And we, we did a lot of rabbit holes, but I think the audience is ready for us to wrap up John 11. So I thought on this podcast and our remaining time, if there's anything you didn't get to say about the story in John 11, because we have read excerpts, we've, we've dealt with individual. We did two podcasts on the love of God, which I was so glad we did because Jace was right. We, we missed a huge lead into that because every time you think about I now, every time Jason see that, and especially when I see perfection, I will think about the discussion we have.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I think our problem, the reason I was excited about it is I think we tend, as followers of Jesus, we tend to end the love of God at the cross and of course, for God to love the world that he gave up his only son. But we immediately think of the cross. But just in our discussion today and with the blind and having that added by Phil, Jesus always was thinking of that, the cross, what he came here to do, and the resurrection as a revealing of the overarching story of the Bible, which is the love of God being revealed and being displayed. And I went through that whole thing about power, which power and love mean nothing if you don't have a being. I mean, it's hard to Call God a person. You know, we struggle with how to call him, you know, a being with three persons. But I think that that is something that John 11 really shows. Because, you know, the verse I keep reading, and this is the one thing I kind of left out. I thought one of those rabbit holes was, you know, in John 10. I keep reading this over and over because when he says in verse 16, I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. You know, talking about these Jews and Gentiles coming together, which is going to pick up the same idea in 11 and 12. You know, the Greeks show up, and all of a sudden, you know, you get language about this, about God bringing everyone together, but it says I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock and one Shepherd. And this 17 and 18 to me shows, illustrates what I'm talking about. The reason my father loves me. There's that word, love, is that I lay down my life, but then watch what it says, only to take it up again. He's not ending at me laying down my life only to take it up again. To Phil's point, no one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. And then here's the power. I have authority or power to lay it down in. Authority or power to take it up again. I mean, he keeps. This pattern is all over. Jesus is writing and the command I received from my Father. So when I did the word perfect, that perfect love, Remember when we went through, I think it was 19 times it's used, and I did the one on the rich young ruler. But one thing I left out, because we read Matthew's version, and you remember in Matthew's version where it says, if you want to be. He told him. He's like, if you want to be perfect, go sell everything you have and give to the poor. But in Mark's version of that, which is Mark 10, and you remember I made the point that God's overarching power, display of love is why he sent Jesus. It's why it's in John 11, where it's like, he loved Mary, he loved Martha, he loved Lazarus. And then you see this display in how he interacted with them, even in his emotions and ultimately resuscitating him. And I'm using that word on purpose because what separates Jesus resurrection from all other people that were raised is that Jesus was the firstborn, the authority of.

[Zach Robertson]

Having he was raised once for all.

[Jase Robertson]

For all time, for all people. Yeah. Never to die again. As the Is. It's kind of the word firstborn. He's the first place, the source of new creation, new humans in a new mode of being here. So saying all that. But even in that story with the rich young ruler, there was just one little phrase that I wanted to highlight in Mark's version, because it didn't end well for the rich young ruler.

[Al Robertson]

No, he went away sad.

[Jase Robertson]

He went away sad. But I want you to notice one thing. And in Mark's version, let's see, where's that at? Mark 10:17, as Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? Why do you call me good? We read this last time when I read that no one is good except God alone. You know, the commandments and all these commandments, if you break them, destroy relationships. Relationships, yeah. Don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't give false testimony, don't defraud. Honor your father and mother. Now, in Matthew's version, he puts in love your neighbor. And so he's like, well, all these I've kept since I was a boy. And I made the point that then Jesus asked that next question. Oh, have you? Because then he says, go sell everything you have and give to the poor. But in Mark's version, in verse 21, there's a little statement here, and this is what I wanted to highlight on. Jesus looked at him and loved him, even though he knew this wasn't going to end well, because he knew what was inside a man. And I'm just simply making the point that God's love is offered to all. And Jesus displayed that in very uncomfortable conversations, even. Even, like here. And he told him the truth. Go sell everything you have. And it wasn't about materialism. It wasn't about. It was about his heart and recognizing the way God displays that power in love. Jesus looked at him and loved him. He still loved him. And. And I. I just.

[Zach Robertson]

Which is a. I mean, that's a pretty compelling argument.

[Al Robertson]

If.

[Zach Robertson]

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[Jase Robertson]

Exactly. That's why I was going here, you know, because I think when people look at the cross, they think, well, that was the love part. And, you know, we got that. But then you read passages like First Corinthians 15, which is talking about the resurrection, and he's like, well, if there's no resurrection, you're still in your sins.

[Zach Robertson]

So.

[Jase Robertson]

And I think people say that. Well, they're like, well, why did Jesus say it is finished? You know, on the cross? And I'm like, well, that part was finished. But I know one thing. Jesus was real clear that resurrection was a game changer about God's love. And, you know, there's a lot of reasons for that, and we discussed a lot of them, but I just simply wanted to make that point. I think it's interesting.

[Zach Robertson]

That's a very interesting point. And I say it this way, that it was finished when Jesus said it's finished, but he was not finished. I mean, even post resurrection, Jesus ascends to the Father, and he sits, not sat. He sits at the right hand of the Father, and he mediates, not mediated. He mediates for us now. And so I think it's to your point. We got to expand our understanding of salvation beyond just our justification. You know, being freed from the penalty of sin, it's got to move into one sanctification, that I'm progressively free from the power and the grip of sin over my life, and then also the future salvation or glorification, when we'll be freed from the presence of sin. But all of that happens, you know, it's interesting. It all happens through resurrection. And so there's a word I use a lot called motif, M O T I F, which means basically, like a pattern that you can see. Are you looking for something? Jason's looking it up. It's a pattern.

[Jase Robertson]

I knew you were going to go here, and somewhere in my searches in my Bible study, I knew you were going to go here.

[Zach Robertson]

So you were prepared.

[Jase Robertson]

I wasn't prepared, but I thought, just in case Zach does this, I'll find it. You keep talking about the motif because.

[Zach Robertson]

A motif is like a pattern or an image or that's repeated over and over. That kind of creates a greater cohesion of a story. And there's a resurrection motif in the entire Bible. And it hit me this week because we did a podcast on Not yet now, we talked about the parable of the Sower in Mark, chapter four. And there's this really interesting thing in the Parable of the Sower where it's all these different kinds of soil, four different types of soil, and only one of them is, like, the right kind of soil. But there's a prophecy from the Old Testament that is given that Jesus gives in this parable, and it's a prophecy out of Isaiah, chapter six. Now, got to keep in mind, the whole parable of the Sower is about a sower sowing this seed. So it's about a seed hitting the ground, and only one of them grows. Well, then when you go back and read Isaiah, chapter six, it's like the most depressing, like, chapter in the Bible because it's pretty much God saying, I'm going scorched earth. I'm burning everything to the ground. And these people will not hear. They will not listen. It almost sounds like he's intentionally, like, withholding himself from them. But that's a bigger discussion. But there's this weird thing at the very end of Isaiah, chapter six, and I think it's the resurrection motif. It says this. Everything's burned, everything's scorched, nothing left. It's just a forsaken place. I mean, just a wasteland without inhabitant, without houses, without people, and the land is a desolate waste. And the Lord removes the people far away, and the forsaken Places are many in the midst of the land. And then he says this, and though a tenth remain in it, it'll be burned again, like a terebith or an oak whose stump remains when it is felled. And here's the last line of Isaiah 6, the holy seed. Seed. Parable of the sower. The holy seed is its stump. And it hit me. What he's saying there is that the kingdom, new life, it's all going to come from a death, a scorched earth. Burn it to the ground, which is us. We burn ourselves. The Holy Spirit burns us to the ground. And it's in that death, in that scorched earth, just nothing, desolate wasteland, that something pops up there. A holy seed. The holy seed here is Jesus, by the way. He pops up and then boom, from there, new life. And so that's the resurrection thing that's happening throughout all of Scripture. It is in the Old Testament. It is a covenant of grace that continues to build upon itself. And by the time we get to John 11, I mean, we're still not fully there because Jesus hadn't been raised yet. But this story of Lazarus being raised from the dead, this is again, it's stacking. That story of covenant of grace is just building and building and building until we get to the point where Jesus is going to be raised from the dead, and he's going to draw all men and the nations to himself. And that's what we're living in right now.

[Al Robertson]

And I was thinking about Zach when you were reading that Zechariah 6:12 popped into my brain. Same imagery. Zechariah. Put it this way. Here is the man whose name is the branch, capital B. And earlier, he talks about a branch coming out of a dead stump, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the Lord. It is he who will build the temple of the Lord. He will be clothed with majesty and will sit and rule on his throne, and he will be a priest on his throne, and there will be harmony between the two. That's good. Which, again, was not allowable under Jewish law. But this was something beyond Jewish law, beyond everything. One who would be both priest and king and prophet, and we would not. You know, it's obvious that's a prophetic message about Jesus, but, I mean, that's all over the Old Testament. To your point.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

No, what I was looking up is because every time we get on this conversation, you brought up this word. You know, where does this propitiation fall into this aspect? Because you have some people, you know, focus on when Jesus died, you know, that appeased God's wrath because we're sinful people. And I agree with. It's in the Bible, and it's only mentioned six times in three different forms. But I had never looked that up. And so. And here's my point. I think when people just focus on that aspect, which is an aspect it tends to miss, I think, a greater point. And I wanted to list those six verses. Let me find them. I got them listed. You can. I did the. I did the whole.

[Zach Robertson]

Are these on the propitiation of sin?

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, the propitiation, where that form of word is used. It's hard to find because it's only mentioned, like, if you do the Greek hub. I'm looking for it here. You do the Greek Bible hub, it's going to say it's only mentioned twice. So you kind of have to go down through the rabbit hole.

[Al Robertson]

And the reason he's saying that if you don't do a lot of study in this area is that a Greek word sometimes will have different variants of it. And we would have the same thing if you said. Used a word like weep and weeping and wept. And, you know, there's different ways for that word to be used. That's sometimes. That was in Greek. So you have to kind of run the strand out to find the different version.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, and what I found was, I didn't realize that this was an argument among scholars. And I think this is worth divulging into just because some. Some scholars, they're like, well, you know, the word should be. And there's another word which I probably not even won't be able to say. Exp. Let me. Let me. I'll tell you what, Maddie, let me spell it and then get Zach to pronounce it. There's another word that people say. Well, it should be translated this way, which is expia. T, I, O, N. How do you say it?

[Zach Robertson]

Expitiation. Expitiation.

[Jase Robertson]

Expitiation. Yeah.

[Zach Robertson]

Not pro, X, not pro, but X.

[Jase Robertson]

E, X, P, A. Yeah. You got propitiation, which. That means the act of making amends or repairing from guilt or wrongdoing. Atonement. So you see it. It has the same atonement word. So you're like, what does all this mean? Is it to appease God's wrath? Well, here's what I came up with when I read the six times it's used, which is. I'll give you the verses. You got Luke 18, three. It's probably not going to be translated, propitiation in your Bible. I think it's mercy there, but we'll read it if you have it. And Hebrews 2:17.

[Al Robertson]

Grant me justice. Is the word there.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, so read the story, Al, just to get the.

[Al Robertson]

It's the persistent widow story where she's like, Jesus is using it as an illustration about how to pray. And the woman is going to a judge, and she says that she kept coming to him with this plea, Grant me justice against my adversary, which I'm assuming propitiation is the word.

[Jase Robertson]

All right, so there's one. So then you have Hebrews 2:17. So read that.

[Al Robertson]

Put my context to the lip, to the test today for this reason, Thomas, Jesus, he had to be made like his brothers in every way in order that he might become a merciful. I'm sure that's the word. Yeah, and faithful high priest in service to God and that. Oh, here it is. And that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. There's your word.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, that's it. So there. There's the word. So that's one form of that word that's translated propitiation, which what we're saying is it's appeasing God's wrath, like what Zach said from the penalty of sin. The next two are Romans 3:25, which, by the way, is the only time Paul actually used the word, which is pretty incredible.

[Al Robertson]

Romans 3:25. And that's kind of the end of the text when he's been talking about.

[Jase Robertson]

All the different, you know, people read 24 and 25. Because the point I'm going to make uses this idea of.

[Al Robertson]

All right, I'll start here. It says. It starts the sentence in 22. There is no difference. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement. There's the word through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance, he had left sins committed beforehand unpunished.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. So you see where that idea is getting there. So then the other time that form of the word is used is in Hebrews 9, 5. And then the last two are going to be both in first John, where it actually is translated propitiation. I mean, I think this is interesting because, look, I've been studying the Bible a long time, and I'm like, what does this actually mean? And so if you'll go down this rabbit hole with us in time. I think the conclusion is interesting.

[Al Robertson]

Okay. Hebrews 9:5 is talking about. It's comparing the tabernacle.

[Jase Robertson]

It's going to be the mercy seat is the word.

[Al Robertson]

Right above the ark were the cherubim of the glory, overshadowing the atonement. Cover.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. So you go read Leviticus 16, 15, and 16, and you'll see this mercy seat. They would sprinkle blood on it. And you remember, this is the whole deal about for the presence of God to enter and remember the behind, the.

[Zach Robertson]

Holy of holies, the cherubim guarding the way.

[Jase Robertson]

And then you have this process, though, where you and you take one goat and put the sins on the goat, sprinkle the blood and put him outside the camp. And you're also sacrificing others for different things, but you're sprinkling this blood on the mercy seat. So go read that on your own. You'll see why he's using that word there. So then the last two are 1 John 2, 2 and 1 John 4, 10.

[Al Robertson]

All right, what was it again?

[Jase Robertson]

First John 2, 2, and first John 4, 10.

[Al Robertson]

Oh, yeah. So that's the kind of famous thing about talking about Jesus. My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense. Jesus Christ, the righteous one. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins. There's the Word. And not only for our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. So which one was that?

[Al Robertson]

First John 2, 1, 2.

[Jase Robertson]

All right, and then 4, 10. And then we'll make the analysis.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, 4, 10. This is love. Not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice. There's the word for our sins.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I'm glad you ended that one, because it was in the context of love, which is my point. So you're like, jace, why are we doing all this? Well, one, I think we need to figure out what in the world that means. So here was my conclusion of this thing. When you detach the death of Jesus from the resurrection, number one, you're doing something that Jesus didn't do because over and over again, he put it together. I think what happens is it leads to a misunderstanding of exactly what happened. And here's my point. Yes, it was to appease God's wrath, because all people sin, and he is a God of justice. But if you just leave it there without the resurrection, well, what do you have? All you have is we have a different view of how God views us. He went from angry to satisfied. That's it. But when you tie in the resurrection and all the verses around this, you start seeing, oh, wait a minute, think of all the times where Jesus said he freed us, he gave his life as a ransom. This kind of terminology. Or he purified us from all sin, you know, in reference to the cross. Well now all of a sudden, when you add those two things together, it's not that he just put us in a state where we're good. He freed us, he purified us. Well, now you start thinking, well, why? Well, now you're getting into the resurrection. Not only that we can live forever, but also we can be free to do something. It ties in. It's a liberation out from under one state into another. For what reason? To become something. And I think when you just try to detach one from the other, you, you, you're not focusing on, well, what am I? What, why did he do this? What's the result of this? And so it's a combination of both. That's why I brought up that word. What did we call that?

[Al Robertson]

Expiation.

[Jase Robertson]

Expiation, because you're now, you're redeemed, you're raised to new life, it's a new humanity. It's deeper than just changing the view of God. We're created to do something. And that's where it gets into this love aspect of freedom in Christ. You know, guilt is gone, the, the wrath is gone. And it's a liberation, which is why I think it's tied in together. So what say you?

[Al Robertson]

So. Well, I tell you this, and because we're almost out of time, but I had never thought about this before this discussion, but when you think about at the end, and this will be our bridge for the next podcast, you remember when, when Caiaphas, who was the high priest, speaks up and says, you know, nothing at all. This is in John 11:49. You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than the whole nation perish. He, he's making a prophecy of exactly what's going to happen. We mentioned this earlier, but to your point days, his view of the what the death of Jesus was about had nothing to do with what the death of Jesus was about. So the same event viewed through the wrong lens has completely not what you want to acquire idea behind it. And so he was saying, if we don't kill this guy, then the Romans are going to come and destroy us. What he didn't realize was you can't kill this guy because he's given his life to become now a part of a new kingdom that the Romans can't touch and destroy. In fact, it will ultimately wind up triumphing over them. So it really is interesting that if you view through only one prism that you can miss the point. And if you don't understand the resurrection and the ascension and the Holy Spirit and their role in the, in the post decision to follow Christ decision, then you're going to miss a huge part of the point.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I was basically saying that Jesus on the cross and the resurrection, when you combine them both, not only does he cleanse us of our sin and, and, and appease the wrath, but he also sets us free. And you can't have one without the other, because if you just focus on the one, well, we're all just sitting here saying, whoo. Well, glad I made it, you know, but I barely met.

[Zach Robertson]

Yeah. My experience in this debate on atonement has been that, that it's kind of, you can kind of get off on it on either side of it. And I think it's kind of like the kingdom, the bits of both, and it's not yet now. I think that's what I've. When I've gone into these debates and deep studies on atonement, I'm like, he did pay for our sin and we were guilty. And I want to talk about this in the next podcast because there is a lot of people that I follow and like their writings and their work, but they tend to minimize the atonement. And there's others to your point, that would, I would think, would oversight over, or maybe not overemphasize the wrong word. It's just they, they leave off the life part. They leave off the freedom part. They leave off the resurrected life, the abundant life. So I think it's, it's a, it's a big discussion, but unfortunately we're like.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I think you did good. I, I think it is a combination of both and that, that is the point. Quit. Quit trying to dissect what God did. When you look at it in the whole, I think you're going to find that God did this because at the root of it, he's of all people and he wants them, and he proved that and displayed that. And then not only is it just for your own satisfaction or his own satisfaction, but it's then becoming contagious. Which is why First John 4 would go on to say we become like Jesus in the world and Perfect love, Cast out fear.

[Al Robertson]

We'll pick this up next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.