Ep 1132 | Jase Dreams of Gate-Crashing Lazarus’ Coming-Back-to-Life Party & When Lust Meets Immodesty

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Episode 1132 Summary

Episode Title: Jase Dreams of Gate-Crashing Lazarus’ Coming-Back-to-Life Party & When Lust Meets Immodesty
Release Date: July 24, 2025
Host/Author: Tread Lively
Guests: Zach Dasher
Location: West Monroe, Louisiana

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1. Technical Glitches and Producer Praise (00:31 - 02:01)

The episode kicks off with Jase Robertson addressing recent technical difficulties experienced during the last podcast episode. He praises their talented producer, Young Maddie, expressing confidence that she will seamlessly handle any issues to ensure listeners have a smooth experience. Zach Dasher humorously remarks, “If she doesn't fix it, you'll never see it” (02:00), highlighting their proactive approach to overcoming challenges.

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2. Exploring the "Finished Work of Christ" and Resurrection (02:12 - 06:06)

The conversation delves into the theological concept of the "finished work of Christ," sparked by Jase’s reference to a previous discussion. Phil Robertson emphasizes the comprehensive nature of Jesus’ mission, stating, “It's not just one part of it. It all came together through the death, burial and resurrection” (04:48). Zach Dasher expands on this by explaining that the resurrection is integral to the gospel, not merely Jesus' death: “Atonement is not only exactly… it's not just about being forgiven. It has to also be about the very nature of sin itself, being defeated by Christ” (05:37).

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3. Comparing Biblical Accounts: John 12 vs. Luke 7 (22:07 - 49:06)

John 12 Context: Jase provides a detailed analysis of John 11 and 12, focusing on Jesus raising Lazarus and the subsequent events leading into Passion Week. He highlights Mary’s act of anointing Jesus’ feet with expensive perfume, noting its cultural significance and the ensuing controversy. Phil adds, “She was so devoted... she didn't want to miss anything” (40:49), underscoring Mary’s understanding of Jesus’ impending sacrifice.

Luke 7 Parallel: Phil prompts a comparison with Luke 7:36, where a sinful woman anoints Jesus’ feet, leading to a discussion on purity and societal perceptions. Jase elaborates on the similarities and differences, noting that both stories involve women demonstrating profound love and men reacting with judgment: “There are people that will see the pure love of Christ and they will not like it at all” (28:02).

Key Insights:

• Convicted vs. Corrupt Hearts: Both accounts feature women with convicted hearts and men with corrupt motives—Simon the Pharisee and Judas Iscariot.
• Expressions of Devotion: The women’s actions are acts of deep devotion, contrasting with the men’s self-serving nature.
• Cultural Norms: The discussions highlight how both stories challenge cultural expectations regarding hospitality and generosity.

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4. Understanding Sin and Liberation through Christ (09:21 - 18:35)

Zach Dasher leads an in-depth theological discussion on sin, referencing multiple biblical passages (Romans 1:28, Ephesians 4, Philippians 3) to illustrate how sin alienates individuals from God and leads to bondage in the mind. He emphasizes that Christ’s death and resurrection not only forgive sins but also liberate believers from the grip of sin: “Christ is liberating us from a debased mind” (09:21).

Phil Robertson adds to this by discussing the authority given to humans by God and how sin represents a failure to exercise this authority: “He gave us the authority and power to rule the earth… we gave up that authority by not trusting God” (06:06).

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5. Practical Applications: Living the Gospel Beyond the Church (51:22 - 52:37)

Zach stresses the importance of embodying the gospel in everyday life, avoiding a secular-sacred divide. He uses Phil’s Duck Commander business as an example of how pursuing God-given authority in the marketplace can expand God’s kingdom: “Phil did through Duck Commander was expanding the kingdom of God” (51:22).

Phil echoes this by highlighting the need to integrate faith into all aspects of life, stating, “What we do here matters… we go out into the world as Jesus said, make disciples of men” (18:35).

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6. Modesty and Lust: Personal Responsibility and Biblical Teaching (43:05 - 47:14)

The discussion shifts to the topics of modesty and lust, where Phil Robertson advocates for personal responsibility in maintaining purity. He critiques approaches that blame modesty on external factors, asserting, “The immodesty is on the one who's being immodest. And the lust that's on the one who's lusting” (46:33).

Jase reinforces this by citing Job 31:1, emphasizing the importance of personal accountability: “I made a covenant with my eyes” (46:40). They condemn hypocritical behaviors, particularly targeting preachers who might preach modesty while privately struggling with issues like pornography addiction.

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7. Personal Reflections and Announcements (49:06 - 54:07)

Jase shares personal milestones, including his weight loss journey, attributing his success to Christian principles and disciplined living. He encourages listeners to embrace similar transformations through faith.

Phil highlights the power of love as the greatest weapon against sin and judgment, reinforcing that true devotion to Christ transcends societal norms and personal shortcomings. He remarks, “Love is the greatest weapon now” (43:05), tying back to the earlier discussions on Mary’s devotion and its impact.

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Conclusion

Episode 1132 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family offers a rich exploration of theological concepts surrounding the finished work of Christ, the importance of resurrection, and the practical application of faith in daily life. Through biblical comparisons and personal anecdotes, the Robertson family and guest Zach Dasher engage listeners in meaningful discussions about sin, redemption, and living out the gospel beyond the church’s walls. The episode emphasizes the transformative power of love and personal responsibility in fostering a life aligned with Christian values.

Notable Quotes:

• Zach Dasher (02:00): “If she doesn't fix it, you'll never see it.”
• Phil Robertson (04:48): “It's not just one part of it. It all came together through the death, burial and resurrection.”
• Zach Dasher (09:21): “Christ is liberating us from a debased mind.”
• Phil Robertson (18:35): “What we do here matters… we go out into the world as Jesus said, make disciples of men.”
• Phil Robertson (43:05): “Love is the greatest weapon now.”

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of Episode 1132, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the key discussions and insights shared by the Robertson family and their guest.

Transcript

[Phil Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Jase Robertson]

So welcome back to Unashamed. We're just kind of gearing back up for this for round six this week. We were having some technical difficulties and issues on the last podcast, but Jace took us down another rabbit hole up.

[Zach Dasher]

Hey, Dan.

[Phil Robertson]

All I can do is apologize. And what was weird is we had technical difficulties the whole time. So if you left bewildered and confused, join the club, because we basically were having a conversation without being able to conversate.

[Jase Robertson]

So look, what's going to happen is we have such a talented producer in Young Maddie, who so many of you are so curious about, that she will fix it so well that the audience will not even know fix it in.

[Zach Dasher]

Post, as they say, the business.

[Phil Robertson]

And here's the good thing. If she doesn't fix it, you'll never see it.

[Jase Robertson]

It'll be just.

[Zach Dasher]

We'll see it because we're to be able to record again. So we're just going to put out there. Well, you said. I mean, Jay got to the climax of his argument. First of all, he brings up a super kind of controversial, which is great.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I didn't know it was controversial, Zach.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, it's controversial.

[Jase Robertson]

There's. And he does it in the last segment of a podcast.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. Then I'm like, well, I got to say something like, hey, whoa. There may be a different opinion on that. But I didn't know because I didn't hear what. I didn't hear what you said at the end so that got cut out.

[Phil Robertson]

And then I was just saying basically that there was a. There's a lot going on at the cross. And the resurrection. Yeah, obviously. I mean, it was. It's the way God chose to save the world.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

As a. As a human becoming a human and doing that. And it really, I think, leads to where we're going in the Book of John. And so these are profound.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, it's even that little subtle phrase. Somebody brought it up in the last podcast. It is finished. Which is one of the things that Jesus said on the cross, which was prophesied by the way that he would say that. And so a lot of people took that to mean that, that that's it. I mean, that's. That's all there is to it. Once that happened, that's the end of the plan of God with humanity. But it really wasn't at all. In fact, in some ways, it was just the beginning.

[Phil Robertson]

That's a good point.

[Zach Dasher]

It's the end of the payment. That's. I think that's the thing. Like, people, like, they're equating the end of the. With the end of the whole with the end of salvation. That's the big problem. And so what happened is with the Catholic Church, and we're talking like, going back pre Reformation, they were selling indulgences basically, that you could purchase your way into the kingdom, like, literally about how much money you had. And so Martin Luther, see, and along with others see this, like, gross distortion of the gospel. And so they rightly revolt against that. And he nails 95 theses to the wall of the church in Wittenberg, which was the birth of the Reformation movement. And so Reformed theology comes out of this, which we're all kind of Reformed if you're a Protestant, really, but that's a bigger discussion. But I think what you got, when people get into this discussion about the finished work of Christ, what they're trying to emphasize is, is that you don't. You don't pay for your salvation. Like, nobody pays for that. You don't earn your way. You don't, like, level up. You don't bootstrap yourself up. That's not what's happening when you. You don't earn it. And so it's paid for by Jesus. So the idea of the finished work of Christ is that it was finished when Christ paid for it on the cross. And that's true. That's 100% accurate. 100% true.

[Jase Robertson]

But.

[Zach Dasher]

If you just leave it at that, and then we don't talk about the resurrection of Jesus, then it's not the full picture of the gospel. That's why in First Corinthians 15, when Paul says this is the gospel, he didn't say the death of Jesus. He says the death, that he died for our sins according to the scriptures that's in there, but that he's also buried and that he was resurrected on the third day. And then he appeared to a bunch of people and. And then all these. He walked on the Earth for 40 days post resurrection, appeared to more than 500 people, most of whom are still alive at the time that Paul wrote that he said. And then last, he appeared to Paul as one abnormally born. So that's the gospel. It's not just the death. And I think that's what we're saying. Atonement is not only exactly.

[Phil Robertson]

I think that's what the Bible says. Because when you look at it, the reason I read the John 10, 17 and 18, where you know, Jesus said, I lay down my life, no one takes it from me, and only to take it up again. And this is why the Father loves me and he brings up that authority. I have the power to do this from God. I think it goes back to God creating humans. What did he do? He gave them authority. Power to rule the fishes and the.

[Zach Dasher]

Earth, subdue the earth and dominion over it.

[Phil Robertson]

What did they do? They gave up that authority by not trusting God and enter the evil one. Who then usurps the authority bringing in death, which is very clear. First John 3, Jesus came to destroy him who had the power of death or destroy the work of the devil. Hebrews 2:14, all these passages and the Colossians 2 passage where on the cross and the resurrection, when you read Colossians 2, he disarmed the powers. And when you look at that Greek word stripped away, made a public spectacle of them. So you say, what's your point? God then has another human to take that authority and remake humanity. That's why he's called the Son of Man. God became a human and that power is then shown the right way. By trusting in God, he destroyed the power of him who had over the death. He destroyed him who had the power of death, that is the evil one, but also redeemed those from sin appease God's wrath toward sinful behavior. So all that happened, it's not just one part of it. It all came together through the death, burial and resurrection. And what is the result? He. He freed us, he liberated us to then participate in his authority as our king. That's why he's described. And we're going to see this as we move into John 12. He's not only the humble servant man, the lamb that would be sacrificed, but he's also the king riding in on the donkey, which is A quote from Zechariah 9. 9, which is. Now you're back to the lion and the lamb. So that's my point. Why are we chopping that up, Zach? Well, I told you, propitiation has moved six times. We've chopped it up. And I'm like, it's the whole part of it that makes you run outside and say, yes, I'm free. Let's go to work.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, because that's. Because the way I think, here's what matters, because if you grow up hearing which I did, the gospel of only. I said the gospel of only atonement. Maybe that's the way I say. I don't know if that's the right way to say it or not, but God's mad at me, sends Jesus to die for me, to take all my sins, and then now I'm. He's not mad at me anymore. If that's my limited version of the gospel, then there's not a lot of power. Post that. Because then what about now? Right?

[Phil Robertson]

That's why I brought up the love that, that, that. The overarching emphasis. Even the rich young ruler, you know.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean, well, because, because, because he, because he. That he died. He gave his flesh. Actually Christ gave his flesh for the life of the world. So I just looked up about five verses here that I think I'll read that are helpful in seeing this. What God liberates you from is not just the penalty of sin. As I said earlier in a previous podcast. That is true.

[Phil Robertson]

Which is also.

[Zach Dasher]

Yes, but he also liberates you from the grip of it. So the problem with sin is that it's not just that it's a. It's not because it's some kind of arbitrary violation against God. Sin, as you said earlier, I don't know if you called it sin, but it is. The essence of sin is what happened in the garden, which is to give away your God delegated authority and dominion to the idols. I mean, that is sin. And so by the definition of what sin is, is. I'm actually not. I'm not exercising what God gave me to exercise. And you become an enemy in your mind. And so Colossians one says, once you were alienated and enemies in your mind because of your evil behavior. Romans 8, 7, the mind is set. The mind set on flesh. It's hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law. Indeed it cannot. This is the problem of sin. Romans 1:28. Since they did not see it fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. Ephesians 4. Believers must no longer walk, as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking, or their minds darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God. This is the nature of sin right here. Philippians 3. Many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their mind, their mind, is set on earthly things. James 4. Friendship with the world means enmity with God. Therefore, whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. And then lastly, Romans 5. While we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son. So what's happening is that Christ is liberating us from a debased mind.

[Jase Robertson]

So guys, summer is here. That means the kids are at home. Jase. It means our grandkids. Or I guess God children in your case.

[Phil Robertson]

Time to read some books.

[Jase Robertson]

Gotta read some books. Jace is holding Brave books, which we love. These guys. They help parents raise strong families by teaching biblical values through powerful faith filled stories. Missy Jace, a woman I think you know, wrote because youe're My Family, which is a great book.

[Phil Robertson]

You have to say it with more feeling. Because you're my family.

[Jase Robertson]

There you go. A great book about unconditional love. Jeff and Jess also wrote a book called Dear Valor, which is an awesome story about adoption, which is a big family narrative with us. So when you subscribe, you'll not only get a new book each month, you'll also get access to Brave plus, which is their new streaming platform packed with safe, uplifting shows like Strawberry Shortcake, Bob the Builder, and Iggy and Mr. Kirk with their friend Kirk Cameron. So while the world tries to confuse and distract, Brave helps families stay grounded. And that's what our kids and grandkids need. Head over to bravebooks.com unashamed. Use the code unashamed to get Missy's book. Because you're my family. Jay, say it again.

[Phil Robertson]

Better.

[Jase Robertson]

And Jeff and Jessica's book, Dear Valor, for free. That's bravebooks.com unashamed. Raise them with truth. Raise them brave.

[Zach Dasher]

So the wrath of God, as it's pictured in Romans, at least Romans chapter one and two, is that God gave them over to do what ought to be done. So what was the wrath of God in Romans 1 and 2. God saying, I'm going to give you to yourself. I'm going to let you to yourself. So then the grace of God would be the God saying, I'm not going to leave you to yourself. I'm going to draw you into my life that you can taste this. And I think that's super important because that we're never going to have a real gospel that liberates men and women from bondage and slavery and sin if it's only about being forgiven. It has to also be about the very nature of sin itself, being defeated by Christ and the indwellment of the Holy Spirit that liberates us from our own bondage in our own mind. And then I would just add this one little caveat. But it's not just that because we are morally guilty before a holy God and it's easier for us to pontificate about these other concepts and disregard our own moral depravity. Except when we're in times like if you were like in the Holocaust in Germany and Auschwitz, and you're looking at pure evil like you're looking at the Nazis, it was pure. And then it's a little bit more difficult to be like, oh, we're just enemies in our mind. We're not really doing anything. No, you're an enemy in your mind and you're an enemy of God. And Christ reconciles us to himself and he reconciles us to ourselves so that now we can be one with God and participate in the kingdom life.

[Phil Robertson]

I do think there's something to be said about the powers, like when you said about we're in our own sin. But when you deny that God is the true God, well, then that naturally leads you to be under some other power that's not God. And that's when the evil one comes in.

[Zach Dasher]

Now that's a great point.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I think that's part of the narrative because that's why that's a huge point.

[Zach Dasher]

You said it earlier. You said it earlier when you said, I forgot how you said it. Sounds like we were given authority.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, we were, and then we didn't function and reflect God's image.

[Zach Dasher]

But what do you do? It's not just you can't neglect your authority. All you can really do is either you can exercise the authority that God has delegated to you and your dominion, or you can give it to the idols, which is the demonic realm, which is all. So I think that's the picture. It's like there's no in between, which is why Sin is not like static. Right. I don't know. If I'm looking at porn, for example, then what does that mean? I've given God gave me dominion over my sexuality. He really did. What did he say do with it? Be fruitful and multiply. But what I can do as a man in 2025 is. Or a woman. I can take that God given delegated dominion to be fruitful and multiply, and I can then turn that over to an image on a screen, and I give the power over to that idol, and then it has dominion and authority over me.

[Jase Robertson]

Because the more. The more you feed it and the more you give it, the more it takes. And what comes back is a more deranged, perverse, terrible. I mean, everything gets worse. That's why to your point about anything, any ideologies that come out, you notice it's always about death and destruction. Because. And I think that's why the New Testament writers, especially Paul, was so sensitive with those early churches when he was talking about idolatry, because he was like, look, you don't realize what you're playing around with here. As believers in the kingdom, we don't want to give one inch of what Christ has done for us back to this idolatrous idea.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, exactly. That's why I keep bringing up the evil one, though then he's then looking at opportunity, usurping the authority and becoming the ruler of the dead, that realm. Which is why when Jesus died and was buried and resurrected, he became Lord and authority over not just the living, but and the dead. Which is why he says all those things, even though you die, yet shall you live. Because now he has provided a way to take that authority back. That's why when he post death, burial, and resurrection, there's a couple things. Just think about it. He said, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. He also breathed onto his disciples in John 20:22, and they received the Holy Spirit. Well, what's that? An image of a new humanity? Yeah, I mean, you can't. You can't say that doesn't mean something. We screwed it up. We went down the wrong road. The evil one takes over, uses death as a weapon, and then all of a sudden, post resurrection, Jesus is breathing his spirit onto human beings again, which is the only time that's mentioned in the New Testament. But it reflects the first time man was made and given authority. What did he do? He took dirt and he breathed life into him. You can't read this without saying, we're a new Humanity, which my point is, if you're just only looking at what happened on the cross, well, why are we here? Well, we punched the ticket. He did it for us. Well, just come get us.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Why are we still here?

[Zach Dasher]

What are we doing here?

[Phil Robertson]

Because he's given us the Holy Spirit of God. And let's be the love of God being displayed, just like Jesus, which is we're getting back into first John.

[Zach Dasher]

And what we do matters here. And I think when you. This is the big transition, right? So now when you see that what we do here matters and so what we don't do, because what we do here matters, is we don't all go holed up inside the church building and shut the doors and hunker down and cross our fingers and grin and bear it till the end. Now what we actually do is we go out into the world as Jesus said. All authority on heaven and earth has been given to me. Now you go out, make disciples of men. How do you do that? Well, one way you can do it is you can go out there if you have an idea. Like maybe you want to make a duck call and you say, I'm going to have a duck call business. And you make a double read a duck call. And then you can build an entire business around that. Think about what Phil did with a. I mean, what's a duck call? Why does it matter? Who cares? Right? Who cares? No, like we care. Because like what he did through that business, What Phil did through Duck Commander was expanding the kingdom of God. He used his God given dominion and authority that God gave him. He cultivated the earth, he chopped down cypress trees and turned them into duck calls. And then people came to the Lord through that and whatever that iteration is for you, that could be a doctor, a lawyer, a plumber, a trash man, whatever the thing, it is like God said, I want you to go cultivate the earth. And as you're cultivating it, what you're going to see, if you do it in my name, is you're going to bring glory to me and people are going to come to know my son, Jesus. That's it. That's the picture. It's not hold up retreat. How many times have you heard someone say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it? You guys ever heard that?

[Phil Robertson]

14 times 12.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Jase Robertson]

You mentioned parable the Sower in the last podcast. You grow where you're planted because every single person that's connected to Christ has an opportunity to help someone else find him. So, so let me, let me reset the context on John 11 and 12 and let's, let's move into the next chapter because we've been teasing at it. Remember as you get to the last section, the fourth act is what I call. Because the reason we spend so much time here is because this was the last big sign, so to speak, before the Passion Week starts. And that's why the resurrection of Lazarus is such a big deal, because obviously we've been talking about it for quite a while and we've also now pushed Jesus has the leadership to the point where they're ready to kill him, but not for the reason he came to give his life. And, and so that has to still be reconciled because there are other things that have to be done to fulfill Scripture. And so Jesus is going to do this on his timetable. And so right at the very end we're getting near it says this here's verse 54 of chapter 11. Jesus no longer moved about publicly among the Jews because now they're ready to arrest him and kill him. But he's not ready to give his life yet. Instead, he withdrew to a region near the desert, to a village called Ephraim. I did a deep dive on Ephraim. There's a lot of stuff that went on there in the past, by the way, where he stayed with his disciples. So he's. He's withdrawn because he's not quite ready to give his life. But it's coming. And verse 50, 55 says when it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, which we know that's going to be go time, many went up from the country to Jerusalem for their ceremonial cleansing before the Passover. They kept looking for Jesus. And as they stood in the temple area, they asked one another, what do you think? Isn't he coming to the feast at all? So, I mean, people are looking for him. But the chief priests and Pharisees had given orders that if anyone found out where Jesus was, he should report it, so that he might arrest him. They might arrest him. So that's the. That's the setting of where we're moving into. And then we. When we get to verse, I mean, chapter 12, John is going to now shift us into the last week. So Jesus is making the move to start. So that. That's kind of a big turn of the page in our study in John. And here's. And I'll read you the first few verses and we'll talk about this first thing that happened. This is pretty amazing too. Six days before the Passover. So we're in the last week now. Jesus arrives at Bethany. We've already established that that's just a couple of miles from Jerusalem, where Lazarus lived. And he raised him from the dead, whom Jesus raised from the dead. Here's here a dinner was given in Jesus's honor, which is kind of a cool thing because this is like, other than his time with the disciples that we're going to read about later, this was kind of the last kind of lighter moment for him before he goes into really just this amazing week. The last week before his death on the cross. Martha served, and that's what she does, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him. So this is resurrected Lazarus. Then Mary, and we know she's the kind of dedicated one that Martha is always after, took a pint of Pure Nard, an expensive perfume. She poured it on Jesus feet and wiped his feet with her hair, which we've established before that this would have been a very provocative thing to do in public. It just wouldn't have done in their culture. Yeah, in their culture, you just. Women didn't let their hair down, literally. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected. Why wasn't this perfume sold? And the money given to the poor. It was worth a year's wages. And then John gives us a little his own opinion about Judas. He did not say this because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief. As keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it. And I love that. That's so us that we know this about somebody and he's just outing him, you know, here's Jesus's response to Judas. Leave her alone. It was intended that she would save this perfume for the day of my burial. And then he says something rather. You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me. Meanwhile. And then here's the little commentary on where we are again, culturally. Meanwhile, a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there. So the word gets out. And they came not only because of him, but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. So now the chief priests have expanded their hit list. They made plans to kill Lazarus as well. For on account of him, many of the Jews were going over to Jesus and putting their faith into him. So that this is the first thing that happens. He's just outside Bethany, is going to be kind of his point or place of refuge during this last week of his life. He's going to go and teach every day in this Passover feast week. And he's going to go back every night to this house. So that's kind of the setting when you're looking at. And I want to say Jace, about this because I. I kind of took my own little Jay's rabbit hole when I read this story, because I was trying to sort of figure out and understand for a long time I thought this had to be somehow connected to the woman that you read about in Luke 7.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Who also let her hair down and cried and wept and Jesus feet remember it, and poured perfume on him. And so for a while I thought that's got to be the same story just told from two perspectives. But it's not. I'm just not. Oh, it's two different things. But here's something I did that I realized, taking a deeper dive at that. I realized that there are A lot of similarities in the two settings that I had missed before because in the other setting, Luke 7, this sinful woman, it calls her in this town comes, she has a past and everybody knows it. And so not only is it something like scandalous what she's doing, but then this Pharisee named Simon is sitting there and he has the same reaction in his heart that Judas has, who by the way was also a self serving man has in this moment when they see this pure love poured out. And I guess Jace, maybe our discussion on love is what kind of locked me into this. There are people that will see the pure love of Christ and they will not like it at all. Yeah, I don't know that they're threatened by it. I don't know if it's just, you know, somebody needs to do something about this. I mean the mindset of some people to see this pure love. And so Judas exercises it here. And I love the reaction. The reaction is, look, what she's doing is important. She's recognizing the why that I'm here and she's pouring this out. And so I just love that Jesus recognizes pure acts of devotion from people, no matter what anybody else thinks.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, you had a list of comparing the two stories, I think. Did you put those in the notes?

[Jase Robertson]

I did.

[Phil Robertson]

I, I, I want you to go over them because I want to add one which I think is a bigger issue.

[Jase Robertson]

But so, so one of them was that you had two convicted hearts. You had the heart of the sinful woman in Luke 7 and the heart of Mary here. But you also had two corrupt hearts. You had Simon the Pharisee who had not practiced any of the hospitality things he was supposed to do by having Jesus in his home. And yet he was willing to convict this woman who was basically doing his job. And then in this case you had a thief, Judas, who was going to betray Jesus and didn't even care about the money except what he could serve for himself. You also had two savior serving women. These Mary and the woman and two self serving men. And then you had two uncomfortable settings because anytime we see this much grace over it, it makes other people uncomfortable. That was another one I had. And then here was another one. The Luke setting contrast the cultural norms of hospitality. But this one hits the cultural norms of generosity, which I think is interesting, worthy of a whole nother discussion. And then finally the loot setting highlights one desperate seeker finding forgiveness, while John setting highlights one dedicated seeker who recognizes that this prospect of forgiveness is really for all of humanity. In other Words. I think the woman in Luke 7 only saw and what she wanted from Jesus for her. She. She was so desperate, she needed him to save her. Whereas Mary sees this in a bigger way. And maybe it's because she saw him raise Lazarus. She recognizes that his death is for everybody. This is a big, big deal.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that's where I was going. I think we should read the Luke 7 passage because what I'm going to say is very profound. Y' all can argue with me if you want to, but. But bring your Bible, because there's one other connection that I think goes in with what we've been talking about the last six podcasts.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Phil Robertson]

This is Luke 7:36. Now, one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him. So he went to the Pharisee's house, reclined at the table, a woman who had lived a sinful life. And when you go down the rabbit hole here, kind of the phrase they use for a prostitute in that town. Learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisees house. She brought an alabaster jar of perfume. And as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair and kissed them and poured perfume on them. So get the setting. You got a woman prostitute letting her hair down, kissing the feet, which I want to say something here. And I think the reason this made both groups of people uncomfortable, which is you have one group which are people in Jesus's inner circle who are having a celebration because one of their people in the inner circle just came back from the dead. Have you ever gone. Have you ever been invited to one of those parties? Hey, we're going to have a party. Coming back from the dead. Party. Yeah, because our body is. But I hadn't been. But look, I want to be a part of that party. This is the greatest party. Just think, you get the little card that says party where what? You know, occasion, coming back from the dead celebration. That's literally what it was. And I think I'm making a point of this because I don't think us as human beings 2000 years later are really can envision the passion and vibe of that party. I mean, they're just staring at this guy. You know, they had to be thinking, like when you stare at a fire and you're like, you know, your mind goes up. They're staring at a guy who was dead. He's sitting here in the party. This is crazy. And then, you know, Mary kind of is like a. What are we doing here? This is getting. Now all of a sudden, it went from being thrilling to awkward. But so the reason I took that time out is because this is uncomfortable, I think, because as men, I mean, there's three men having this discussion. It's just in our worldly nature that we live in, when you see a woman doing like this, we immediately go to something sexual because we're men. That's, you know, women. They're not thinking like men. If you hadn't figured that out by now, they're not realizing these kind of acts. There's some men probably in the audience thinking, wait a minute, she's kissing his feet. This is. She's letting her hair down. This is the kind of stuff you do when you're in a bedroom alone. And especially, you know, her lifestyle. And that just shows you right there that this battle that we're up against. Because you can be in a church setting and I mean, a group of people having a Bible study, singing songs, and some new Christian come in who's a woman who's dressed inappropriately. And half the audience, they're no longer talking about, you know, thinking about the resurrection of the dead. They're like, whoa, look at this woman. That's how easy it is for your mind to. Zack, you brought this up about your mind to get off. And I guarantee you it happens every Sunday and probably times 100. This is life. And that shows you how hard this is. So back to the story in Luke 7, verse 39. So when the Pharisee who invited him saw this, well, he said to himself, because most men would, well, if this man were a prophet, he would know who's touching him and notice he's bringing out that phrase, she's touching him and kissing him with her hair down. This is inappropriate. And what kind of woman she is? She is a sinner. Jesus answered, simon, I have something to tell you. Tell me. Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed 500 denarii and the other 50. Neither of them had the money to pay him back. So he cancelled the debt to both. Now which of them will love him more? Simon said, well, I suppose one has a bigger debt you have judged correctly. Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, this is a Phil move. He turned to the woman and said to Simon, do you see this woman? I came into your house. You didn't give me water for my feet. She wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss. But this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. He's given it from a totally non sexual perspective, because you know why? He's the greatest human that ever lived. And he had no sin. He wasn't thinking what you're thinking when he saw this woman. Sadly, you did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. Therefore I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven, for she loved much, but he who has been forgiven loves little. Then Jesus said to her, your sins are forgiven. The other guests began to say among themselves, who is this that even forgives sins? Jesus said, your faith has saved you. Go in peace. So what I wanted to bring up is in your character, in your comparison of the two stories. This is definitely a Jesus on the cross foreshadowing because he forgave her sins. But John 12, Mary who does the same thing, who's from a totally different perspective. She's in the inner circle, these are his friends. She comes at it from a resurrection perspective because they're sitting there staring at a dead man that came back to life. And she concluded, oh no, this means for him to be glorified and have the power over death, he's going to have to die. Now we're talking about a faith that's combined not only for our sins on the cross, which is why I think these two stories are in the Bible, yet different, yet the same. But she's saying, ooh, the resurrection gave the same response. And I think it connects the two stories. Like I was trying to connect the propitiation with the expiation and that same vibe. It's the entire process that provides true freedom, that turns us into new creation, new humanity, spirit filled people going out there shouting to the world, hey, look how awesome the love of God is in Jesus. It's a forgiveness of sins, look, it's a liberation from the grave.

[Jase Robertson]

And also, Jase, I love it. That Jesus recognized. Mary assumed. Now the text doesn't tell us this, but because of Jesus says it was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. Mary assumed because she was in the inner circle that she would be one of the people that would help prepare the body of Jesus whenever that day came. I don't think she knew it was going to be in a week.

[Phil Robertson]

Great point.

[Jase Robertson]

But what she does is instead of waiting for that day, she recognizes the bigness of the moment they're in right here and goes ahead and says, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you this gift now. We're not gonna wait until you actually have a dead body. We're gonna give you this gift now just because I recognize how great you are and I love the idea of that because what we know now from what happened is Nicodemus and of course Joseph of Arimathea, two guys who, you know, one who converts over out of being a Pharisee and the other guy's a rich guy who gives him the tomb. They wind up being the one that actually take care of the body of Jesus when he does die. But Jesus recognizes the purity of this gift that you mentioned and he says, leave her alone. She's doing this out of the dedication of her heart.

[Phil Robertson]

I love her alone. I love that leave. But look, how many times do we see the same thing happen where we're uncomfortable and it's a new Christian or whatever, like I just said, and, you know, here we are looking at what she's got on or the way she's being broken. I mean, and you got to remember, Judas and the Pharisee were technically right. They could have taken this perfume and helped the poor. And I thought, man, God help us if our church building is full of people that are technically right and absolutely wrong in that assessment, you know, and I think it comes from the way we're viewing what God did for us. We're trying to view everything from our perspective, what we would do in this situation. He's like, well, here I'm bringing up a philosophical, very righteous point. We need. She should have given this money and we could have given it to the poor. And Jesus is saying, they're looking at the bigger picture. Yeah, you'll never be poor. If you embrace me and understand what I've done through a cross and a resurrection and being exalted, you're never going to be poor. It goes back to the rich young ruler. Why did he tell him to go sell everything you have? You start seeing a connection in this. That's why love is the greatest weapon now.

[Jase Robertson]

And I think it also, because you talked about the rich young ruler, a couple of podcasts back when you were describing this idea about missing the idea of what Jesus was asking him, especially about the love part. And I think this moment helps clarify that tremendously, because people have missed what Jesus was asking him. They focus in on the idea of him giving it up to love Christ instead of the idea, well, he should. It was his money, you know, he just had too much money. And that was the problem. And that's where you see this whole kind of current mindset that seems to be everywhere that, you know, our only purpose on earth is to help poor people. It's like, wait a minute. I mean, we. We certainly shall share. Help our share of poor people, but our purpose is to introduce them to Christ because it doesn't matter how poor you are. If Jesus didn't make any other point with that parable about Lazarus and the rich man, the idea is you don't want to miss salvation. Well, for what's happening on Earth. So this year I turned 60. And as all of you on the podcast know, I had made a claim last year that I was going to lose £60 by my 60th birthday. Jase, it did not happen. You lost money on a betting pool somewhere. That started in the process. But I am 60 this whole year, and I am proud to announce that now I've not only lost 60 pounds but another few more on top of that, and that's because of PhD weight loss. The program teaches you what to eat, when to eat, and it works on your relationship with food so that you can keep weight off for life. If you're looking at this picture on YouTube, this is me at the beginning of the journey. Not so great. Here I am, all these 28 weeks later, 65 pounds lighter. So another great benefit that's come from my PhD weight loss is that my medication has been cut in half. I had high blood pressure and so I had high blood pressure meds. That's in half. I expect that to be totally gone on my next checkup. So that's fantastic. Also, don't have to use my CPAP machine the way I did before. I'm breathing better and sleeping better every night. No gimmicks, no pills, no shots, none of the side effects that come with a lot of the way people are losing weight these days. You're not eating rabbit food. In fact, they provide about 80% of your food. It's a system that works. I know you've been waiting to jump in. Now is the time. Join me on my weight loss journey. Schedule your one on one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900 or you can visit myphdweightloss.com that's 864-644-1900. Tell them Al Robertson sent you.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that's why I was trying to make these practical points about modesty and stuff. You know, look, I'm completely for modesty. We have Bible verses about that. But I'm saying the greater problem is if someone is immodest or doing something that's uncomfortable, that doesn't mean that you have every right to lust at this one. You're supposed to look at this woman like Jesus did. It's like, you know how we think, though? Well, it wasn't my fault. Look at what she's got on.

[Jase Robertson]

It's like, well, you've seen that.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that's not forcing you to do that.

[Zach Dasher]

You've seen that religious circles where they only focus on the modesty and they want to blame that. No, the, the modesty is. The immodesty is on the. That that burden is on the one who's being immodest.

[Phil Robertson]

Thank you.

[Zach Dasher]

Now, the lust that's on the one who's lusting. No one's causing the other. Like you make your choice.

[Jase Robertson]

That's why, that's why I always mentioned Job 31:1. He says I made a covenant with my eyes. He said, the problem lies in me and you. And you recognize something. All of Jesus teaching, he did a lot of teaching about what you look at and what you think about while you're looking at it. He never said anything about the other.

[Phil Robertson]

You know what's sad about this, Al, is I guarantee you there have been preachers who got up and just preached on modesty with all hell fire and brimstone. And the same preacher is addicted to pornography in his room by himself. You know, I mean, look, you're like.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, well, that could never happen.

[Phil Robertson]

Are you kidding me? What seems to be the problem here? And I think it's because you miss the big picture. I mean, I've shared my story before. I mean, and it was nothing to do with my own performance whatsoever. But staying a virgin until I got married, which was very difficult. It only came from looking at women in the vein of Jesus eyes. I mean, ultimately there was a lot of things that happened and being on the offense, talking about Jesus, you know, in dating environments and all this. But ultimately, you know what. What led me to that was looking inside the woman, you know, like Jesus, he was looking at their heart. And that's the only way you're going to be able to do it. I mean, it's impossible without that.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. So Lisa and I do some teaching from Proverbs 31 and Job 31. And I make that point just when we're talking about this issue, because Job obviously brought it up, and this was an ancient man that brought it up, is that we have to make decisions about women or what, you know, whatever the attraction is. And you're right. Is that a. That's someone's daughter, someone's mom, someone's sister. There's a lot of things she is before she becomes the object of your.

[Phil Robertson]

And they're all God's daughters. And in these two stories, the women were the champions. The two women and the two men were idiots in God's eyes. And so, I mean, I think it's a small point, but I think the idea of the death, burial and resurrection and people realizing who Jesus is in these two cases is the bigger point.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, and I think to. Your point about making the comparison was really good because I think in the Luke story, a lot of people sitting around that table were kind of thinking what the Pharisee was, and it was really more about this woman's past. And that's why the only person that brings it up in John 12 would be Judas, because he's Greedy. Because Mary was an inner circle gal. I mean she had right intentions. Every time we see her in context, she's so devoted to Jesus and his teachings that she doesn't want to miss anything. And so, and so she is totally aware of the moment and understanding of it. And I think that's such a good example for us. I mean just.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, you're exactly right. Be aware it was dealing with her past. And I think Mary was. And Martha in that setting, it was thinking about the future. But even the woman when he, when he forgave her sins, he said go in peace. But I mean, go. You're ready to go do what? Spread this love that because they were convicted by the love God had for them in Jesus and then they had an expression of love. And now that's replicated in the world wherever you go. You think she's going to tell that story? Absolutely. Same thing with the woman caught in adultery. You could use the same example. The woman, the woman at the Whale.

[Jase Robertson]

I like that he linked it to the idea of the more how much you see the bigger idea of how big Jesus is in your life, the more you have that capacity for other people. And we've talked about this, even in this context about dad. Zach brought it up about dad in the duck haul business. We all know one of the motivating factors for dad was making up for lost time, as he would put it, because he's. Here's the way he would say it. Here's another segment for what would Phil say? I spent the first 28 years of my life, which would actually not be all those years, but that's what he said, running with the evil one. And I decided I'd spend the rest of the time running with the godly and running with the Almighty. And so that's the.

[Zach Dasher]

He.

[Jase Robertson]

He viewed that his, his change and what he accepted in Christ and what he recognized, the goodness of the gospel and how it was so good that he wanted to spend the rest of his years being all in on impacting people. And I don't know of anybody that did it any better, you know that he did. And it still continues with us as we go forward. I mean it just that that that legacy will keep going, but that's what really what it becomes all about. Right.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, when you move it outside the building. Yeah. Because the other way, I think it leads us to a what they call a secular sacred divide. So you put a, a line between what we consider secular. That's that, that's all the stuff you do in the world. And then everything's sacred that's on the other side of that line and they don't cross. So your church life is your church life. Whatever happened, that all happens in the building. That's your Sunday morning. That's your. That's all that. That's that stuff. But don't bring it over here. And so you get things like in college ministry, we hear all the time, like, man, I want to go into full time ministry. And I'm like, if every one of you went into full time ministry, we would have no Christians in the workforce we need. This won't work.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, that's what I was. What stuck out to me about this. And I mean, there's so many little practical applications all of a sudden, you know, in comparison to who Jesus is and what he's going to do on the cross and the resurrection and people connecting those dots. In this case, Mary, all of a sudden, money doesn't matter. The fact that other people are looking at you as scandalous for letting your hair down, it didn't matter. It didn't matter to her. These programs that Judas is bringing up, everything gets minimized when you're running it through the filter of what Jesus did as an expression of God's love for humanity. I mean, it puts it in the proper perspective, you know, so just think about that. I mean, we all like money. I've had life without any money, and life with money, as Phil would say, life with money is way better. But she didn't care about how much this was worth because the bigger picture was so much in the forefront of her mind. She was like, oh, God's going to take care of me. He raises the dead, for crying out loud. We're at a party with a dead man. Where's the best thing I got? Because I know this. He's going to have to suffer and die. I mean, she made that connection and I just think that can't be emphasized.

[Jase Robertson]

Plus, I like that. I like that she saved and was willing to sacrifice for Jesus. I mean, that was just very powerful. So we're almost out of time. Two things I want to mention. One is I meant to mention this earlier. On August 1st, if you're in the Cedar Falls, Iowa area, I'm going to be speaking at the Cedar Falls, Iowa Bible Conference. So I'm excited about that on that Friday night. And I wanted to mention this to y'. All. This is a setup for the next podcast because the next thing is going to happen is really big. I mean, it's it's huge, and it was a fulfillment of prophecy. But we talk about a lot on this podcast. I know Zach does on Not yet now, is that he's going to have this triumphal entry into Jerusalem, which is in essence a king coming from conquering. Is the setting what it looks like. But he's actually coming to conquer, which is amazing. And I want to mention this and have you mull it over, Unashamed Nation, because I found this fascinating when I was reading the other Gospel accounts of this arrival in Jerusalem, because all four of the gospels, you know, chronicle this moment because it's so big, as Matthew 21, then Mark 11, but the one in Luke 19, Luke tells us something that the others don't, including John's. And I just thought it was interesting because we just came off of these podcasts. We were trying to figure out why Jesus wept. And Jay's basically, that's the conclusion is because he loves so much. The only other time you see Jesus weeping is in this same moment. And you get it from Luke 19:41. As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it. He had just had this setting where he had wept over Lazarus and then raised him from the dead. And then he goes on to tell why, and I'll save that for the podcast. But I do think it's interesting that not very long after that, right in his last days coming into Jerusalem as a king, he weeps yet again. And he's seeing something the rest of us are not seeing. And I think it's something that's going to happen about 40 years later in the sense of why it's so critical that we don't miss Jesus. I mean, that's just. That's so important. And he knew a lot of people were going to miss him. So we'll get into that next time we have advanced. We are in John 12, so good work on that, Zach. Have a great vacation. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.