Ep 1141 | Jase Tackles a Tough Question About Alcohol & Substance Abuse

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Episode: Ep 1141 | Jase Tackles a Tough Question About Alcohol & Substance Abuse
Release Date: August 8, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In Episode 1141 of Unashamed with the Robertson Family, host Jase Robertson delves into the sensitive and often misunderstood topics of alcohol and substance abuse. Joined by Phil Robertson, his brother Al, and guest Zach Dasher, the Robertson family engages in a heartfelt and insightful conversation aimed at addressing tough questions surrounding these issues from a Christian perspective.

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Addressing Alcohol in the Bible

The episode opens with a discussion initiated by Phil Robertson, who brings up the duality of alcohol consumption as depicted in the Bible. Phil states, “Alcohol is not bad, clearly, because Christ did” (16:06), highlighting that the biblical narrative does not condemn alcohol outright but cautions against misuse. This sets the stage for a deeper exploration of how alcohol is perceived within Christian teachings.

Key Points:

• Usage vs. Misuse: The Robertson family differentiates between moderate consumption and drunkenness, emphasizing that while alcohol itself isn't condemned, excessive use leading to sin is.
• Biblical References: Phil references Ephesians 5:18-19, explaining, “Don’t get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery,” and Galatians 5:22, which mentions self-control as a fruit of the Spirit (16:30).

Notable Quote:

Phil Robertson: “Alcohol is never said to be bad in the Bible. Drunkenness is always a sin.” (16:30)

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Substance Abuse and Modern Challenges

Zach Dasher brings a contemporary perspective to the conversation by discussing the prevalence of substance abuse beyond alcohol, including prescription drugs and other substances. He shares his personal journey with weight loss and the support he received, drawing parallels to overcoming substance abuse through community and faith.

Key Points:

• Broader Scope of Substance Abuse: Acknowledges that substances like marijuana, mushrooms, and prescription drugs pose significant challenges.
• Support Systems: Emphasizes the importance of support systems, such as Bible studies and faith communities, in overcoming addiction.

Notable Quote:

Zach Dasher: “Prescription drugs are as big a problem as anything.” (16:57)

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Biblical Interpretation and Personal Experiences

Jase Robertson recounts a specific instance where a young listener named Blake posed two profound questions about alcohol and the nature of Jesus. Phil shares his thoughtful responses, emphasizing a holistic understanding of biblical texts rather than isolated interpretations.

Key Points:

• Listener Engagement: Addresses Blake’s questions:
  1. What does it mean that Jesus is the Word, and is Jesus God?
  2. If alcohol is bad and drunkenness is a sin, why did Jesus turn water into wine?
• Holistic Understanding: Phil advises looking at the broader biblical narrative to grasp the significance of Jesus' actions, rather than dissecting individual verses out of context.
• Covenantal Relationships: Discusses how Jesus' actions symbolize the establishment of a new covenant between God and humanity.

Notable Quotes:

Phil Robertson: “Jesus is revealing a picture of who he is and what he's going to do.” (18:55)
Jase Robertson: “Alcohol is not bad, clearly, because Christ did.” (16:06)

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Discipleship and Spiritual Growth

The conversation transitions to the importance of discipleship and continuous Bible study. Zach highlights the value of studying the Bible with others to gain deeper insights, while Phil underscores the necessity of trusting God’s word and exercising self-control as fruits of the Spirit.

Key Points:

• Continuous Learning: Emphasizes Bill Smith's advice to "don't stop studying" as a foundation for spiritual growth.
• Community Learning: Promotes engaging in group Bible studies, such as the upcoming series on Genesis in collaboration with Hillsdale College.
• Self-Control as a Virtue: Links the concept of self-control in avoiding drunkenness to the broader spiritual fruit of the Spirit.

Notable Quote:

Zach Dasher: “Anytime you listen to someone else teach, you learn something you didn't know.” (04:56)

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Theological Insights on Jesus' Actions

Phil and Jase delve deeper into the theological implications of Jesus turning water into wine, linking it to the Passover and the larger narrative of liberation and covenant. They explore how these actions symbolize the arrival of the Kingdom of God and the establishment of a new relationship between God and humanity.

Key Points:

• Passover Connection: Explains the significance of the Passover in Exodus and its fulfillment in Jesus' actions, symbolizing liberation from sin.
• New Wine as Kingdom: Interprets the new wine as a metaphor for the abundant life and joy that Jesus brings.
• Covenantal Symbolism: Discusses the washing of feet as a covenantal act, representing purification and participation in the new covenant.

Notable Quotes:

Phil Robertson: “Jesus is going to predict and always go back to that segment of him being born of a woman, being baptized, humbling himself...” (27:18)
Jase Robertson: “This is the breaking in of a new reality into our space.” (28:21)

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Practical Applications and Encouragement

Towards the end of the episode, the Robertson family offers practical advice for listeners grappling with substance abuse and emphasizes the importance of living a life aligned with Christian values. They encourage participation in Bible studies, community support, and trusting in God's plan for liberation and transformation.

Key Points:

• Personal Responsibility: Encourages listeners to make informed choices about alcohol and substances, considering their personal struggles and faith journey.
• Community Support: Highlights the role of community and faith-based support systems in overcoming addiction.
• Covenant Living: Reinforces living a life that reflects the new covenant established through Jesus, focusing on self-control and spiritual growth.

Notable Quote:

Phil Robertson: “We are participating in the greatest party of all parties in Jesus.” (24:33)

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with the Robertson family reiterating the importance of understanding the broader biblical narrative and living out one's faith through actions that reflect Jesus' teachings. They emphasize that true liberation comes from embracing the new covenant and trusting in Jesus' role as the liberator from sin and death.

Final Quote:

Jase Robertson: “The washing then becomes the way in which that we enter into the covenant, which goes back to that Genesis 15 passage...” (51:46)

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Key Timestamps

• 16:06 - Discussion on alcohol not being inherently bad.
• 16:30 - Drunkenness as a sin according to the Bible.
• 16:57 - The problem of prescription drugs.
• 18:55 - Importance of understanding Jesus' revelations.
• 04:56 - Value of continuous Bible study.
• 27:18 - Jesus' actions symbolizing new covenant.
• 28:21 - New reality introduced by Jesus.
• 24:33 - Participation in Jesus' "greatest party."
• 51:46 - Entering into the covenant through washing.

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Final Notes

Unashamed with the Robertson Family Episode 1141 offers a profound exploration of alcohol and substance abuse within the framework of Christian faith. Through personal anecdotes, biblical interpretation, and theological insights, the Robertson family provides listeners with both spiritual guidance and practical advice. This episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone seeking to navigate the complexities of substance use while maintaining a steadfast faith.

Transcript

[Al Robertson]

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[Jase Robertson]

Your burger is served and this is our finest Pepsi.

[Zach Dasher]

Zero sugar.

[Jase Robertson]

It's sweet profile perfectly balances the savory notes of your burger.

[Phil Robertson]

That is one perfect combination. Burgers deserve Pepsi. I am unashamed. What about you?

[Zach Dasher]

Welcome back to Unashamed. Still down here at the Southern layer. Zach's still coming in from North Carolina. Jace is all alone in the unashamed Jace. I noticed. So the last time we did podcast, which for us is a couple of days, you know, the audience, they kind of keep rolling out. But. So you were making one of your salient points. You had done a deep dive on something and I was tracking with you, you know, interest, interested in everything you were saying. And you and I both noticed we look in our little boxes because we're all little squares, you know, looking at the monitor and Zach is in the middle of like a big yawn. Like whatever you're saying, it was sleepy time.

[Phil Robertson]

I actually was saying the aspect of time in the Bible in the New Testament uses two different words. And one of them is what is the significance of the time? And I'm. I was literally making the point, this should be thrilling that we're not just letting time pass us by or all the idioms that, you know, I'm wasting time or doing time. I mean, all these little slogans that we have. I'm like, for us in Jesus, the time we spent has significant value not only to the planet, but for all of eternity. And it wasn't that I noticed it Al. I heard it and look, I don't. It's hard to make me angry.

[Jase Robertson]

I was hot.

[Phil Robertson]

I looked at. So when you roll your podcast, I.

[Jase Robertson]

Mean, that's a young man's game. I got a four year old at the house that's keeping me up at night. I've got all my kids in from. It's just I'm not sleeping well. But hey, and this is not a promotional for any particular thing, but I do have this on set today.

[Zach Dasher]

And now he's got the monster Drink, Jason. That's why I noticed this, because we had. That was one of the last convers conversations we had off camera. And I noticed he had the giant energy drinks.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, you know, when I was in West Monroe, we were. I think we've told y'.

[Phil Robertson]

All.

[Jase Robertson]

We're doing. We have a fifth episode coming out on August 29th. We're going to start adding a fifth episode with Hillsdale College. We're actually taking a course on Genesis. And so we. The. We have Christian, Sadie's husband, and. And then John Luke are doing it with us. And so they were. They. They come in, Duck commander, and I. And I. I've been so tired lately because I've been just running like crazy. I had a monster energy drink and I walked by, and Christian, who is a health nut, he looks at me and goes, monster energy drink. I said, yeah. He goes, huh? And just.

[Zach Dasher]

It's interesting. Yeah, interesting.

[Jase Robertson]

So I. I know some of y' all probably are judging me right now, thinking you're not supposed to. Those are horrible for you, and I know they are. But, Jace, I want to please you. So I will not be yawning today.

[Zach Dasher]

Because you brought it up. When does. When does that. Hillsdale does that. That. August 29th is the first episode.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. You can go to if you want to. So if you want to sign up, because you can take the courses for free. I mean, some actually, they're really good. We just started doing it. Genesis. We're going to do Genesis, I think six lectures on the book of Genesis. But you can go to unashamedforhillsdale.com and you can sign up and take. What I hope you'll do is, like, take the course with us.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And if you. In that way, each episode on Friday, Hillsdale Friday will be us discussing the content, which was really good.

[Zach Dasher]

It was really. The professor that does it is fantastic. And you know what's interesting, Zach? I kept thinking about our mentor. My mentor, especially Bill Smith, who always used to tell me, don't stop studying. And, you know, I've taught Genesis several times. I'm very intimate with the book in terms of knowing the themes of it, but, you know, anytime you listen to someone else teach, you learned something you didn't know.

[Jase Robertson]

That's true.

[Zach Dasher]

Dr. Jackson is the guy's name. But it's. It's well worth taking. It's free, which is fantastic. So I definitely encourage you to follow us along. I think you're gonna love it.

[Jase Robertson]

But, Jason, I will not. I won't be yawning today. Okay.

[Phil Robertson]

That's okay. The. My therapy the last two days since I've seen y' all is because your name comes up because you're in our family and so people's names come up. So I referred to you the last two days to my lovely wife as the Yawner.

[Jase Robertson]

The Yawner.

[Phil Robertson]

And so then I got to tell her the story, of course. It's so funny.

[Zach Dasher]

There was the eye roll. I guarantee you had an eye roll.

[Phil Robertson]

I'll tell you about my wife. She's always going to take my side, so. Which is, you know, that's good. We're married.

[Zach Dasher]

She's.

[Phil Robertson]

We're. We're one. And her. I think her line was, that's ridiculous. How embarrassing for him.

[Jase Robertson]

I said, well, nobody saw it.

[Phil Robertson]

I said, nobody saw it. Because his whole point was, well, when the camera shot is on you, they're not looking at me. But I was like, the morale factor at that moment, which made me think, we need a yawning button. I wonder, because we get these little appliances from our local dollar generals, from people who listen. And that would be. I don't know if they have a yawning button or not.

[Jase Robertson]

Right.

[Zach Dasher]

Unashamed nation, you've been given a challenge. Find us a yawning sound.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Because I would use it when people start arguing about things that are not related to the Bible being about a person or Jesus specifically, where they got all worked up and. And. And it has nothing to do with anything significant. Speaking of that time aspect. And so, okay, it would be fine to press the yawning button. But that was my point. That was like the exact wrong time to be.

[Jase Robertson]

But you can't choose when you yawn, though. That's the thing. And it has less to do with the moment you're in and more to do with the moment you came out of. And so the moments that I came out of were moments where I have not been sleeping. You know, it's just chaos. You know, I guess with all of.

[Phil Robertson]

It's like me the night before I'm gonna do podcasts. I don't schedule anything. Therefore I can have a good night's sleep. So I'm not yawning.

[Jase Robertson]

You don't. Well, when you got a four year old, you don't schedule when they're gonna be up.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I have four of them under four in various times, so I get it. I understand that.

[Zach Dasher]

But I feel like I should get out my little mini violin and start playing it, lady.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I'm kind of on a. I mean, it Made me change my pattern. Usually I studied the night before. I didn't last night because I was involved in so many other Bible studies, and they just kept it through text. And one of them's a new Christian, I think I told his story. He's 18. But the other guy who was on our podcast maybe seven, eight podcasts ago.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, Blake.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Because I was so impressed with him. But, you know, he's basically a new Christian. He's only been in a couple years, and I. And I, when we finished, he's like, man, I learned more in that little session just from going through a few Bible verses. And I was like, you need that Bible as a foundation.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, I get it. It's about Jesus, and you're all in on Jesus. So we started a Bible study. And so I was like, read the book of John, which we're doing that in the podcast, but we have a propensity to get deep in the weeds. But we're doing that because the first time we studied John. How would you describe it al the difference in then and now?

[Zach Dasher]

Well, I think just probably the depth of us doing all the other gospels in the Old Testament, what happens is we come circle around six years later. I just think it. There's a deepening of the. We've dug a lot deeper into the entire Bible itself and this theme of Jesus. So, I mean, it's definitely richer and better from my perspective, both on the teaching side and the learning side. So it's. It's.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, we're also connecting.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Jewish history, the Old Testament, fulfillment.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

Which even, like, where we're at Right now, John 13, it says, you know, he specifically starts that off by saying it was the time of the Passover, and. Well, he's doing that on purpose. Well, if you don't know what the Passover was about.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And, you know, you. You go to. I think it's Exodus, probably chapters 11 through 13 there, where it discusses that, then it's gonna. You're gonna be limited in understanding how powerful what Jesus did. I just think when you look at the details, because it was basically Israel's liberation, and think about the liberation that Jesus is offering now from sin itself and death, not just because some nation has control over you. I mean, that. That would be horrible. You'd be oppressed, and you'd be very thankful if you were liberated from that. But we're talking about sin and death itself and the evil powers that are against us.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah. And you know, Jaz, I was thinking about when we did your lovely Wife, and I think it was Lindy and maybe some other people collaborated maybe 10 or 12 years ago, they did a. They wrote a sort of drama slash musical project called the Crimson Gospel. And I helped a little bit on the project and because I was kind of tying in some of those pieces. But the idea that there's a picture and it really starts back in the garden, but then it goes through the Passover, through Rahab with the scarlet cord, and all throughout Jewish history, you just see these little glimpses of this. And the idea was this color red, which ultimately would describe the blood of Jesus, which really saves the entire planet. But the. The pictures of it are all throughout. And so that whole musical, which we all went down to Orlando and. And some very famous, really good Christian artists performed that thing. Remember that, Jason? And it was super powerful. But I just love the idea. There's so many different ways to tell this story and these stories.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

That they're just rich. Every time you get into it, it's rich, you know, because it just. It brings. To your point, it brings Jesus out every time. You know, I've been on this weight loss journey. You've been kind of doing it with me out here in Unashamed Nation. I appreciate all the kind comments that you guys give me when I turn 60. My goal is to lose 60 by 60. And I passed that goal, which is a blessing. And it's all because of PhD weight loss and the job that they've done. Dr. Ashley Lucas is the founder. The program teach you what to eat, when to eat. It works on your relationship with food, and it shows you how to lose weight for life. And one of the things I love about these guys is they put you in contact. I talk to a person every week that gives me a little bit of counsel, a little bit of encouragement, answers whatever questions I have. So they're not just leaving you twisting in the wind. They're going to be right there with you every step of the way. Here's a picture of me on YouTube at the beginning. Here I am some 30 weeks and 65 pounds later. Looking good, feeling a lot better. I didn't really plan on my meds being cut in half, but that's what's happened. Hopefully, the next time I do a checkup, I'll be off those meds altogether. No gimmicks, no injections, no side effects. You're not eating rabbit food. You're staying full because of the high protein content, which is really great. And PhD weight loss provides about 80% of your food every week. So it's going to help you on that side as well. So want you to check these guys out. Join me on my weight loss journey. Schedule your one on one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900 or you can visit my PhD weight loss dot com. That's 864-644-1900. Tell them Al Robertson sent you.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I agree. And in view of Zach's yawning and these two questions, the first two questions, so, so that's what I did with, with one of these brothers here. I was like, read the book of John. I mean, they're both doing this at the same time, but one of them's ahead of the other. It's like, read the book of John and just ask yourself a question. Who is Jesus? Who is this Jesus? Have that vein? Of course, what happened was in both cases, well, they start reading it and since they don't know the history or the big picture is what I'd like to call it, they get distracted by the small things that they don't understand. And so here was his questions. He was like, I'm six chapters deep in the Book of John. I have two questions. What does it mean that Jesus is the word and that he was with God and was God? Is Jesus God? Well, when I read that, that's the first question asked three different ways. But I thought, well, I figured you would have got that, you know, when we did a podcast, because he's listening to the podcast too. And I think there's a danger when you get kind of so deep into things you just kind of miss some of the slippers. Yeah. What was that? What does that mean? And so the second question, you'll get a kick out of this. I thought you'd get a kick out of this. Which I love that first question because.

[Zach Dasher]

I thought, that's a great question.

[Phil Robertson]

But now just think about it. How do you respond to that in a text?

[Zach Dasher]

I was about to say, this sounds like a conversation.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, I'll tell you, after I sent his, sent my text in response, I said, I'm normally not this long winded, which may or may not be true. I said, but that was a hard thing to explain. The second question, because he got this from John too. If alcohol is bad and drunkenness is a sin, why did Jesus turn water into wine so others can, could continue to party and get drunk?

[Jase Robertson]

That's a good question.

[Zach Dasher]

That's a good question.

[Phil Robertson]

So those were the two questions. So I thought I would get your opinion in how to answer that in the spirit of not being yawners or to grasp the big picture. So what say you? And I'll give you my response on.

[Jase Robertson]

The alcohol question first.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, either one. I think they're good questions.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, the alcohol question. Alcohol is not bad, clearly, because Christ did. I think that's a good text.

[Phil Robertson]

So pause there. Because when I got to the second question, I said, here's the short answer. Alcohol is never said to be bad in the Bible. All right, so continue. We have that. Exactly. I said the same thing. All right, go ahead.

[Jase Robertson]

Drunkenness is considered a sin.

[Phil Robertson]

All right, well, my second sentence was, getting drunk is always bad, but there are many substances that you can get drunk on. Because I was giving him a subliminal message. It's not just alcohol. Yeah, the right kind of mushrooms.

[Jase Robertson]

Marijuana, mushrooms.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, there's all kind of ways.

[Zach Dasher]

Prescription drugs are as big a problem as anything.

[Phil Robertson]

Let me tell you. From what I've heard, you can drink enough Nyquil, which I guess that is alcohol, but, you know. Cough medicine. Yeah, whatever.

[Jase Robertson]

But be careful of that because that'll ruin your liver because it's got acetophenamine in it. Nyquil does. Be careful. You get Tylenol over this.

[Phil Robertson]

Okay, Dr. Health. Yeah, that would have been a perfect place for a yawn. Yeah, I see them in a fit.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, and as he sips on his giant monster energy, because I've been.

[Jase Robertson]

Been shamed. I've been shamed by Jace, but the same guy that. Half the time I'm talking, he's looking at his phone. He says he's looking up a scripture. I don't know if I believe that.

[Zach Dasher]

But I think he's got ongoing Bible studies now with all these. He might, though.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

I don't know what he's doing. So I then put on the. On the alcohol question, I put. I think Ephesians 5, 18, and 19 is a pretty good picture of the question you're asking, which is don't get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Yeah, yeah, that's a good verse, you know, but instead, be filled with the spirit. Sing. Make music in your heart, you know, so. And then I put Galatians 5. 22. I put not getting drunk as a fruit of the Spirit. Galatians 5. 22 has self control as a fruit of the spirit. So basically, you see what I was saying, which I think is an interesting word. You have the spirit, but one of the fruits of the spirit is self control. Because everybody's like, well, there's nothing you can do. There's not. Self control is a fruit of the spirit. You have an opportunity not to get drunk, to exercise self control because of the spirit of Christ that's in you now. I think this is the funny part of what I said. However, after all of that, what Menzak just basically said, this has nothing to do with John 2, nor is it the point.

[Zach Dasher]

No, that's correct.

[Phil Robertson]

Correct whatsoever. Jesus is revealing a picture of who he is and what he's going to do, which was my original question in why you should read John. And so. But I get it. I asked the same question when I was two years in the faith because I'm like, what's this changing the water to wine? You know, we, as I think, especially in America, tried to make everything apply to us. And we kind of look at the Bible, which I went on to say this in my text as a rule book. This is like, we're taking a college exam, you know, read the book of John and ask me any questions. He's like, well, here, you know, since I've had a problem with alcohol in the past, this just seems like something that's not good. So why is it in there?

[Jase Robertson]

I would advise Blake or anybody. Blake, I mean, he shared his testimony pretty openly. I don't think he. Yeah, he shouldn't touch it at all. I mean, there's people that. I would say, hey, you probably shouldn't touch that stuff because you got a history with it and, and you didn't really learn how. You know, you maybe stay away from that for a while.

[Phil Robertson]

I agree with that assessment.

[Jase Robertson]

And also, if I, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have a drink around somebody that I knew had an issue with it.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Or had an issue with it.

[Phil Robertson]

I've said before many times. I mean, I'm. I'm like the poster child for, you know, controversy on that. Because, I mean, I don't think drinking's wrong and I've never been drunk. I mean, I would be one who could make a case, hey, you should never do that. Because I've never had a problem with that. You know, but I don't. Because the Bible says the exact opposite. I mean, you remember the passage in Timothy where he's like, I hear you're having stomach problems. You know, drink a little wine and that. That'll help you out. Or it's somewhere in Timothy, but yeah, but that's not the point. My, my, what I want to. I think this is an interesting conversation that's not what that's about whatsoever.

[Zach Dasher]

Which I think that's such a smart point because you properly showed that when any of us especially come out of the worldly situation, in other words, we didn't just kind of come to faith through our youth, but lived a time among the world and had some of these same things that you read about some of the New Testament conversions. And obviously you're looking at everything through that lens. I'm trying to stop doing one thing to start doing something different. But the more you get to know this Jesus and what he is really not only offering you, but what he's given you that you just hadn't realized, the gifts yet, the more that becomes part of your walk and your existence, your day to day, it becomes not the do and don't do, but this is who I live for. So I think you're properly showing the process that happens. And that's, that's this idea of discipleship.

[Jase Robertson]

And you also have the. I mean, you get these Old Testament passages about like in Psalms, that wine makes the heart merry. The context of the ceremony that they're in is a wedding, right? So there's a celebration aspect of it. There's joy. This isn't like a bender fraternity party where everybody's just funneling beers till they're just completely blitzed. That's not the scene. This is a celebration of a union. And so I think that the story too, of Jesus turning water into wine is directly connected to the new wine that Jesus says he's bringing. He's bringing the kingdom is breaking in. So it's no accident that he's doing this miracle, making new wine at a wedding ceremony. Right. Because we're the bride of Christ. There's all kind of imagery here that's being played out. And so I think this is not a text. Good point, Jace. It's not a text on, for or against alcohol consumption.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

So, I mean, it just kind of was an awakening for me having these conversations because I'm like, man, we're talking about all this stuff and it's not resonating. And just like what you just said, we're participating in the greatest party of all parties in Jesus. This is a way greater party and has nothing to do with being drunk. It's way better than that. Which is what people, that's what they're drawn to. They're like, oh, we're just going to be free, party, get hammered, and do whatever our instincts tell us to do and then wake up, recover a day or two, and then do it again and call that living and life. And so I think within the grand scheme of God, the earth, the planet, human beings, eternity, I mean, here you have this story, and what should be being revealed to you when you hear the story of Jesus is, wow, I'm a part of this global purpose of God. And like, there I eventually am married to Jesus, you know, and I got into the passages in Ephesians 5. You know, he's talking about husbands and wives, but he gets to the end. He's like, but I'm talking about you and Christ.

[Jase Robertson]

You're married to Christ.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, which is what he's introducing here, you're part of the greatest party ever. And so, and the other point, if you want to get into it, but that's what I did was give the overview of what he was pointing to. And I actually used our reference that we used last podcast about the time thing, because that's where he first said, my hour has not come. He said that to his mom at the beginning of that. The wedding venue. And so I explained that. I was like, Jesus is going to predict and always go back to that. That segment of him being born of a woman, being baptized, humbling himself, receiving the spirit, and then doing all these great things to humanity, all these displays of God's character. You know, I talked about the life, love, light and just healing, showing compassion, forgiving sins. And then he's always pointing to his death, the defeat of his enemies, his resurrection, proof of the resurrection. Then he poured out his spirit. He went to the father process.

[Jase Robertson]

Think about that.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, yeah. Being glorified.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, he poured out his spirit in Acts 2, when the Spirit of God came down in tongues of fire. And the whole. We've talked about this before. It's the rectifying of the Tower of Babel story because people could hear each other talking about in their own native tongues. But what did the people around them think they were. They thought they were drunk. And so you get this idea.

[Phil Robertson]

That's a good point. That's a good point.

[Jase Robertson]

What are these guys up to? What kind of wine are they on? It's the new wine. And so you see in the story of Jesus turning the water into wine, it's the breaking in of a new reality into. Into our space, Right? A new reality is coming in. So one way you could look at it is the old law is the water, and then the kingdom of God is the new wine, which is breaking into our story now. And you really see it in Acts 2. I mean, that's like. Because the spirit's come then, now then it's like on then it is on after that.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, in which to Jason's point, Joseph's point, Ephesians 5, that's what Paul makes that distinction. He's like, look, you know, you want to replace the spirits, you know, whether they're evil spirits or the spirits, you know, that you find in a bottle, replace it with the Holy Spirit, then you really got a jackpot party going on. This is true.

[Phil Robertson]

Jackpot. Exactly. And we're. And we're kind of burying the lead, which I put in my text response. I was like, I think you're taken too lightly. That there was a human being on the planet claiming to be God that changed water to wine strictly because of a thought. He willed it. He didn't, like, come up with some concoction. He just did it. I was like, that kind of being. That's a human who can make that kind of change. With the physics involved, that's impossible just to not even have to blink. Well, he's giving you a picture. If you want to know how to change something, I'm your guy. I mean, how many people in their life, all of them, at some point say, boy, I wish I could make this change or do something different? Well, I know a guy who's really good at changing stuff, and he literally can go outside the laws of nature themselves. And so I think that's what I'm trying to say is not. I mean, I'm using his vulnerability and being young in the faith, because I was exactly in the same point. I've had more arguments about John, too, on whether it was, you know, some people say, well, I don't even think that was fermented wine. You know, it's all these arguments come out, and I'm like, meanwhile, we've missed the exciting big picture of what's happening here and how you can be involved in the scheme of God's redemption.

[Jase Robertson]

But you get an agenda that you're trying to hold to because you have a way you think the world should be. And then you start looking at the text, and you start having to read into that text, which to say, that is, I think, to read into the text to say it wasn't fermented. And it misses the big point.

[Phil Robertson]

If you start making stuff up, Think about this.

[Zach Dasher]

Think about it. The faith of his mother. How many times is your mom says, hey, you need to make some wine? I mean, his mom believed in him enough. She said, do something about this wine situation. I mean, that blows me away that she had enough faith in what. In who he was in the moment to think he could do something. Which he did.

[Phil Robertson]

Which he did. And so I want. I realize I've hijacked the podcast, what we were going to do with these two questions, but I just think.

[Jase Robertson]

What was the first question?

[Phil Robertson]

Well, it was about the word. And look, I really struggled in how to make that short. But what I did was. I did the same principle. I said, well, let's just think about the overall view. And I told him, I know y' all been studying Genesis in your. In your other podcast. I said, go read the first three chapters of Genesis right now, because John 1 starts saying, in the beginning was the Word. And I said, find the word in Genesis 1:3. Well, I realize that sounds easy if somebody has taught you, but, you know, it was more difficult than I thought because I was thinking he would notice, like, as soon as it starts off. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. And then it's like. And God said, yeah, let there be light. Well, when you say something, what do you use? Words. That's kind of where I was going. And I even mentioned. I gave a few hints. When you get. And he says it all over the place. He kept saying, and things kept happening. He'd say, things kept happening. Well, now we have two humans. And what did he do to them? He told them something. Well, what did he use? Words. He said, don't eat of that tree. Eat of this tree. Well, then don't you find it interesting? What was the first thing the Evil One says?

[Zach Dasher]

Did God really say?

[Phil Robertson]

Did God really say. So why is God using words? And who is that word, where that's coming from?

[Zach Dasher]

Yep.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, in the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. I just think that was the communication aspect of the Godhead. The Son, he just hadn't become flesh. And I had that down. Verse 14. Now he became a human. And verse 17 says, he explained God because no one's ever seen God. Well, that's what words do. The Word became flesh to explain. So that's the. That's where I went. But when I got to the end, I thought those words that God spoke, which led to him choosing a nation, Israel, to be his representation to other nations. And God spoke words to them. He gave them a promise of blessing or a promise of curse. And what was the catalyst for that? The result of that, either you trust what I say or you don't. And so then the Word becomes flesh. So not only did Jesus use words, he lived it. He lived the words. So that explained God, which is how the Word become flesh. But it's still the same agenda. Are you going to trust Jesus, who is the word of God saying, trust what I say? Because if you think about it, if I'll just make a blanket statement, if you would trust what God says, no matter whether he said it from the Father, using the Son as the voice in the Old Testament, or whether he's saying it in Jesus as a human, nothing bad would ever happen to you. Nothing. If you just trusted Him. Every time he said something, you're like, you know, What? I'm going with it. Well, what bad could happen to you? Nothing. And you say, well, sure, there's going to be bad things that happen. Well, your sin's forgiven. You can't die. What other problem can we come up with? You're like, well, somebody else, you know, died. Well, you're going to see them again, or evidently not know about it. So, you know, I just, I. That's the, that's the angle. I went.

[Jase Robertson]

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[Zach Dasher]

But think about it. Jays Even the written word, Peter, makes the claim that the Holy Spirit was engaged and involved in that. Men spoke these prophecies as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. So even that nature of the word, the written word, because we have the spoken word, the Revelation, Remember from Romans 1. And then we have the written word, which is thousands of years of history that syncs up the perfect story about the perfect man. And those men were carried along by the Holy Spirit and women who sh. Who share that story over time. So it keeps coming back. Remember in John we read in the Last podcast, John 15:3, I think it is, when Jesus told the disciples, he said, you've been Cleansed by the Word. I've spoken to you, which is in the context here of what he's talking about, this cleansing, because he's doing this washing of their feet. But the Word is always been there and it is. It's so central to everything.

[Jase Robertson]

But what happens in John is that that word becomes flesh. And I think what is interesting about those two questions is they're deeply, deeply connected. Actually understanding Jesus is the Word. And then this whole idea about why did he turn water into wine. If you think about. There's a documentary film that you should watch. I love it. I watched it probably 10 years ago, maybe 15 years ago, called for the Life of the World, Letters to the Exiles. It's super. I mean, this thing is so well done. It's kind of like a weird artsy film, but it's written and based off of John 6. When Jesus says, I give my flesh for the life of the world. It's what we talk about on this podcast all the time. That Christ didn't just save us from our sin, he also saved us to life. And so when you watch this documentary, it's like a story in the sky is like going around. He's asking these questions about reality, about the purpose of life. And every expert that he asks a question to, they'll say, well, let's go down the hardware store with me. I got to get some stuff. And they're talking the whole time. You don't really understand what's going on until the very end. But they go buy a wheelbarrow and they buy a shovel and some rakes. And then they go to this place that's off. It's like thorns and thistles. It's just like a wild like garden. And they start to cultivate this thing. And so the whole process of the whole film is they're asking the question, what did Jesus die for? And then at the end of the film, they're answering the question as they're doing this work. Well, at the end of the film, what you realize is, is that spoiler alert. That they're actually preparing for this incredible party. They're preparing for this feast for. It almost looks like a wedding ceremony. And I think it's related here because that's what Jesus, he said the word became flesh. And then when you go to John 6, Jesus said, I give my flesh for the life of the world. Well, that party that Jesus is at, that wedding ceremony, that's the picture of the kingdom breaking into our present reality. Because what we're saved to is actually the party, the life in Christ, the celebration, the wedding ceremony. It's life and life abundantly. Which is why when Jesus comes on the scene here, what you see in the new wine that he creates out of water is it's joy and abundance, Joy and abundance. And I think that that's a powerful connection.

[Phil Robertson]

So what I'd like to do is when you get to John, just to give you kind of an overall big picture, like we did with the Word, like we did with the changing the water to the wine. When you read these first three verses in John 13, it says it was just before the Passover. Jesus knew the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he now showed them the full extent or the end of his love, the uttermost of his love. The evening meal was being served and the devil had already prompted Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, to betray Jesus. Jesus knew that the Father had put all things in his hands and that he came from God. He had come from God and he was returning to God. So he got up from the meal, took his outer clothing and wrapped a towel around his waist. After that he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around them. What I was going to say is the big picture of the Passover. I went back and read Exodus 11 through 13, so. And you know what I found fascinating is because you think about what was the Passover celebration that Israel and by the way, they're still doing it today. This is still going on, this observance of what happened at the Passover.

[Zach Dasher]

Sad thing is Jace, they missed it because we didn't need anymore after this one right here we're reading about.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. So look, if you go back to Exodus and y' all can fill in the blanks because I'm not going to read all four chapters. But just the heading in Exodus 11 is the plague of the firstborn. And you remember the story there, Al? I mean, do you want to share that? Exodus 12 is about the Passover. You have the plague of the firstborn. Well, that firstborn, does that not sound familiar?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

What Jesus would become the firstborn of the dead and he was the firstborn of the creation. But go ahead Al.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, it was just, it was the 10th plague and it was the most costly of all because every firstborn, both human and animal in all of Egypt died in one night, except for Israel, who was covered by the firstborn, which.

[Phil Robertson]

Is, well, exactly Because Israel sacrificed lambs and would put the blood on the, on the doorpost. Was. Does that sound familiar?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And this is how they were liberated. And look, the, the, the greatness about that story is it actually worked. They were liberated, but it only worked for a short time because death only got their attention. But then they realized, oh, and then they chased them, which eventually led to the parting of the Red Sea. But Jesus, him being the firstborn of the Resurrection, that'll change you forever and your participation in that. But here's what I wanted to read as far as big picture, because when it says that God had placed all things in his hands. Well, when you get to Exodus 13, I found this fascinating. And it's talking about the consecration of the firstborn. And this observance, he's like, you will observe this throughout history, this feast, this meal that Jesus chose to reveal the full extent of his love and the character of God. We're going back to Exodus 13, the ramifications of this liberation that would be celebrated. But I'm going to read four verses out of Exodus 13 because you're going back here, and you don't have to get the point. You can read all four chapters and see what Al just talked about. But in verse three, it says, moses said to the people, commemorate this day, the day you came out of Egypt out of the land of slavery. Now here's the key point, because the Lord brought you out of it with a mighty hand. Then he gets to verse nine. This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that the law of the Lord is to be on your lips. There's the word for the Lord brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand. And you read verse 14 of Exodus 13. In days to come, when your son asks you, what does this mean? Say to him, with a mighty hand, the Lord brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Verse 16. And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the Lord brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand. I think you get the point.

[Jase Robertson]

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[Phil Robertson]

And so when you read John 13 and now fast forward however many hundreds of years and you think about what happened back then. Liberation for God's people. Now here is the Jew of all Jews, the perfect Israelite, coming to redeem not only them, but us and everyone. He says when he made that statement, John Jesus knew that the Father had put all things in his hands and that he had come from God and was returning to God. Well, why did he come? Why did he return? It's the establishment of a new creation, a new liberation, perfect freedom, not just from oppression, but from sin and death. And they're in his hands. Well, what did he eventually do with his hands? He had nails driven in him. He then made a point. And it's fascinating when you read all the verses, you know, why, after the resurrection, what did he continually do? He's like, look at my hands and my feet. So even the scars on his hands speaks liberation. Because look, I was dead. They nailed, they nailed nails in my hands. And when you think the whole Roman act of crucifixion, it was to show that you don't mess with us. You know, they put the crown of thorns, you know, and we talked about what thorns represent. You know, it's a power play. It's things that cause pain. It's a barrier that we're stronger than anybody, you know, so they put big thorns up around their fortresses, you know, like these big stakes with. It's just a huge thorn. You say, why don't mess with us? We're the most powerful nation in the world. And they nail him up on a cross to publicly humiliate him. I mean, it wasn't just that they killed him. They were making a statement saying, this is what happens when you take us on. But him showing his hands that are now have been resurrected and glorified is showing you this is ultimate liberation. And of course, then he puts his hands on them. You know, think about all those statements about that. And so that's why I think when you look at the big picture, it does have more meaning to us here today.

[Zach Dasher]

Did I tell you, Did I tell you, Jace, that, you know, in the movie the Passion, which Mel Gibson directed, that when it came to the scene, if you watch when they stretched Jesus hand, you just see his hands and then there's a Roman, you know, hand that has the little, you know, cuff thing on the leather cuff, and it's hammering in that first nail. And. And someone said that I read somewhere that that was actually Gibson wanted that to be his hand because we all had a hand in doing that. And I thought it was a powerful image once you kind of knew that behind the scenes, if. If that really happened, that we all had a hand in this idea. And I, and I love the picture talking about the mighty hand and this in the same scene we're seeing here being washed. Because you remember the final scene of the liberation, the escape, was when they went through the Red Sea and then all of Egypt who was chasing them were drowned in the same water. And Paul said in First Corinthians 10, that was their cleansing because there was a cloud above them, there was water on both sides. In essence, that was the cleansing of coming out of Egypt, even though that same generation, the oldest generation, died in the desert on the other side of the water because they kept wanting to go back to Egypt. So to your point, you still have to embrace by faith what God is doing.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, you see here the cleansing ritual, right? Jesus is washing the feet. He says, if I don't wash your feet, then you have no share with me. And it's like that participatory phrase, you're participating in this with me. But it's also like a covenantal phrase as well that God's making a covenant with these guys. And that is also connected to Jesus turning water into wine at the wedding. Because what ultimately is happening here is in the wedding feast, when he turns the water into wine, he's almost like announcing himself as the bridegroom.

[Phil Robertson]

And.

[Jase Robertson]

And then when you get here, he's talking to the bride and he's telling the bride, I got to present you holy and blameless. Right. And so if you don't let me wash you, then you can't actually be a participant in the covenant with me. So the washing then becomes the way in which that we enter into the covenant, which goes back to that Genesis 15 passage when God makes the covenant with Abram and he basically moves alone through those dead animals to say, it's a one way covenant, but we are invited in to participate. So God accomplishes. He actually accomplishes both sides of the covenant and then offers that to you. But you have to come in and be washed by the sacrifice of the covenant, which would become his own sacrifice. That's the blood. Then it's new wine. What's the new wine? His blood is the wine. I mean, they're literally taking the Last Supper here. They're reenacting the Last Supper, which will become the Lord's Supper, which we take every Sunday at our church. And we drink what wine or the fruit of the vine. We're drinking the wine which symbolizes his blood. So you can kind of see all of that running through the Gospel of John. But it is centered on a relationship that is built on a covenant. That's what Christ is doing. It's bridegroom and bride. And the bridegroom is actually accomplishing both sides of the covenant, both the demand for faithfulness, and he is faithful on his side, and the rectifying when that faithfulness is broken, when the adultery occurs, he makes both of them. Right. I mean, that's pretty powerful.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. And what did he wash their feet with? You know, his hands. So when he gets to verse 14 of John 13 and he says, now that I, your Lord and teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet, I have set you an example that you should do as I've done for you. That's why when people will say, which I agree with, but I think we take it too lightly when we say, oh, we're the hands and feet of Jesus, well, that is quite the standard.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

No, Think of the scars. Because I had another Bible study this week and they were talking about something came up which they were, I thought, too depressed, you know, to be a son of God. And I was like, look, scars matter. That means you, you're still here. You're back, you survived it. This is, it's speaking resurrection. You came from the dead, you come through the pain, all these different things. And so when something brings that up that reminds you, you can then, you know, take hope in what Jesus did to accomplish this. It's not saying this is a pain free life, but it's speaking to the new creation and the new liberation that he was fixing to offer. But he set the stage right here in how we are to operate. And he gave you the catalyst by. That's why, you know, elsewhere in this chapter, he's like, you don't understand this now, but you will. You'll get this. Because I think he was, he was having the cross in mind, that it was an act of love that was unconditional, which is really revealing the character of God himself. And that would pass on to us as being his representative.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, and I love the idea, right, that then we carry that narrative. And you see that a lot of the New Testament epistles, the idea of what our hands do, but also our feet, I think about Romans 10, you know, how beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news. So good point. There's a lot of really rich symbolism in this and we got a lot more to talk about, but we're out of time. Speaking of time, so we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.