Ep 1146 | A Miss Kay Health Update & Did Jesus Love Even Judas?

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode 1146 | A Miss Kay Health Update & Did Jesus Love Even Judas?
Date: August 18, 2025
Hosts: Al, Jase, Zach, (with mentions of Phil and other family)

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Episode Theme Overview

In this heartfelt episode, the Robertson family offers an encouraging update on Miss Kay's health and transitions into a deep, scripturally rooted discussion: "Did Jesus Love Even Judas?" The conversation weaves in family stories, biblical metaphors, and theology about love, betrayal, free will, and God’s sovereignty—anchoring everything in the context of John 13 and the Last Supper.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Miss Kay's Health Update (00:06–06:23)

• Al shares that Miss Kay is doing "fantastic" after setbacks and successful surgery. She's living at Anna’s, central to the family "compound," and is enjoying time with the family, especially a recent birthday dinner for Sage.
• Quote (Al, 06:13): “Appreciate all the prayers that you do, but you know, health is important. You know, we all get to that place.”
• Family conversation turns to food choices, celebrating birthdays, and the joys of eating home cooking versus eating out.

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Reflections on Family, Food, and Health (06:23–11:54)

• Jase and Al reminisce about their youths, scraping together change to buy as much food as possible.
• Zach mentions his use of a glucose monitor and the “Levels” biohacking app to manage blood sugar, sparking discussion on modern approaches to eating and health in light of faith, tradition, and technology.
• Quote (Zach, 09:17): “My biological age according to the levels app is I’m 39. So, I’m in decent shape.”
• The conversation naturally segues into biblical references to bread, with a nod to Jesus “feeding the 5000.”

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Bread, Betrayal, and the Will of God (11:54–17:36)

• Al segues into John 13, noting Jesus’s reference to Psalm 41 and the act of sharing bread as a signal of who will betray him.
• Jason connects Jesus’s consistent theme—“Do you understand what I’m doing for you?”—to larger questions of God’s will and love.
• Quote (Jason, 12:31): “How the will of God translates to the love of God… I do think that that question helps you understand some of the more difficult themes and verses in the Bible.”
• Discussion of Jesus’s prayers about God’s will—“not my will, but yours be done”—and the emotional depth of surrendering to God’s plan.

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Love and Its Antithesis—Judas the Betrayer (16:14–25:43)

• Al and Jason discuss evil as the antithesis of love, introducing Judas as the archetype of betrayal.
• Al (16:54): “To understand love, you have to understand the antithesis of love, which is hate… the evil one hates us.”
• Jason reflects on Judas not always intending betrayal; perhaps he justified it out of disappointment with Jesus not fulfilling political/messianic expectations.
• Zach expands: “He [Jesus] willfully lay[s] down his life and submit[s] to this betrayal,” emphasizing the depth of Jesus’s love and power.
• All agree: Judas wasn’t forced—he had agency, which reflects on every believer’s choices.

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Old Testament Metaphors: Jacob & Esau, the Heel, and God’s Sovereignty (17:36–31:51)

• Al draws a parallel between the heel-grasping prophecy in Genesis (Jacob & Esau) and the drama at the Last Supper.
• The story of Jacob, Esau, and the transformation to Israel (“he who struggles with God”) underscores the themes of wrestling with sin, surrender, and forgiveness.
• Al (19:23): “I call it the blended family that was thrown in the blender.”
• The hosts use Romans 9 and Malachi to explain the difference between individual and national destinies, emphasizing the grand narrative of free choice and God “strengthening” existing paths without eliminating individual responsibility.
• Zach (29:48): “What does it even mean? What is the obedience of faith? What does it even mean? And you’re seeing it: it’s faith in Christ.”

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Did Jesus Know Judas Would Betray Him? (31:51–40:16)

• Jase unpacks the complexity of Jesus’s knowledge—how his humanity and divinity interplay in foreseeing Judas’s betrayal.
• References to John 2:25, Mark 13 (the Son not knowing the hour), and the role of the Holy Spirit in Jesus’s ministry.
• Jason (33:54): “He never did a miracle before he had the Holy Spirit… I don’t think that’s a coincidence.”
• Zach and Al highlight the importance of understanding Jesus’s dependence on the Father and the Spirit—he “does nothing based on his own accord… dependent on the Father for everything.”

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Love Offered, Love Rejected: Did Jesus Love Judas? (40:16–46:28)

• Jason confronts a theological debate: Did Jesus love Judas? He argues that Jesus’s actions (washing Judas’s feet) prove inclusive, unconditional love.
• Al (41:24): “In that verse where it said he loved them, that meant it didn’t say, ‘except for [Judas]’…”
• Referencing 1 John 2 and 2 Corinthians 5, they assert that Christ died for all—even those who do not respond, including Judas.
• The metaphor of Deuteronomy 30—God sets before all a choice of life or death, blessing or curse. Judas is a tragic example of choosing not to respond.

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Judas’s Choice, Corruption, and God’s Glory (46:28–51:06)

• Zach brings in John 12 and Exodus (the Pharaoh parallel) to show that corruption and betrayal were already in Judas’s heart; Satan merely “strengthened” what was there.
• Al (48:04): “When you’re left to your own devices… you’ll finally just do it.”
• Zach: Expounds on Romans 1 about God’s wrath—being “given over” to one’s own choices. Judas’s path shows the withdrawal of God’s restraining grace and the resulting self-destruction.
• Ultimately, God’s sovereign plan incorporates even this evil for redemption—Christ’s resurrection transforms what looked like defeat into victory for all humanity.

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Closing Reflections: The Bread, the Betrayal, and What’s Next (51:06–end)

• Al reads from John 13:22–30, describing the moment Jesus identifies Judas to John and Peter by sharing dipped bread.
• Quote (Al, 52:01): “…Can you imagine what that meant in his heart when he said that? When he knew?”
• The text closes with Judas leaving into the night—the moment of decision, darkness, and separation—setting up next episode’s discussion on Peter’s impending denial and the contrast between the two betrayals.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Al (06:13): “Appreciate all the prayers that you do, but you know, health is important. You know, we all get to that place.”
• Jason (12:31): “How the will of God translates to the love of God… you can do your own rabbit hole, but I do think that that question helps you understand some of the more difficult themes and verses in the Bible.”
• Zach (25:43): “…Christ is not necessarily. I don’t want to say he’s not a victim. He’s willfully laying down his life and submitting to this betrayal. Which is incredible when you think about… the sovereign king of the universe.”
• Al (16:54): “To understand love, you have to understand the antithesis of love, which is hate… the evil one hates us.”
• Jason (41:30): “He had his feet out there and he loved you. He chose not to reciprocate, which we all kind of have that choice.”
• Zach (48:46): “Romans 1 says the wrath of God is being revealed… but [his wrath] is… giving you over to yourself. And I think Judas in that moment is… the Spirit of God was pulling back his common grace…”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:06–06:23] – Miss Kay health update and family life
• [09:17] – Zach explains “levels” app and learning about his health
• [11:54–13:55] – Segue to John 13, the theme of bread, betrayal, and God’s will
• [16:14–17:36] – The contrast of love and hate in the context of Judas and Satan
• [19:23–21:35] – Jacob, Esau, and parallels to betrayal and wrestling with God
• [31:51–40:16] – Did Jesus know of Judas' betrayal? The nature of Christ’s knowledge
• [40:16–46:28] – Did Jesus love Judas? The universality of Christ’s sacrifice
• [48:46–51:06] – Judas’s self-chosen path, God’s sovereignty, and ultimate redemption
• [51:06–end] – The dramatic reading of John 13:22–30: the giving of bread and Judas's exit

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode exemplifies the Robertsons' conversational, scripturally anchored, and down-to-earth style. They balance humor, family wisdom, and a deep, accessible approach to theology. The episode invites listeners to grapple with profound spiritual questions—about love, choice, and God’s desire for all—even as it remains rooted in the ordinary moments of Southern family life.

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Next Episode Tease: The next show will contrast Judas’ and Peter’s responses to failing Christ, looking for lessons in grace, repentance, and restoration.

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Transcript

[Jason]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Al]

So welcome back to Unashamed, Jase. I think the number one question that I get asked, in fact, I. I got it this morning when I walked in this room from Maddie, our lovely producer, is how is your mom? You know, because everybody's just curious. Mom has not been in the best of health for a bit last, you know, couple of years, but. And then she got a lot better, I think, you know, not too long after dad crossed over. But then she had a setback because she had to have surgery, which I think we talked about it on the podcast. We haven't given an update lady, but she's doing well again. The surgery was a success. And I noticed when I. Because I just got back into town for a couple of days and so I in. Part of the reason I came home was to check on her because I've been gone for a while and she looks great. And, you know, we've had some really good conversations the last day or so. And then last night we had a little outing because Sage, who is Stone's youngest daughter, turned 11 this week. And apparently in my particular wing of the family, every time somebody has a birthday, we gotta do a big to do, which is usually going to eat out and all this, which I don't like to do much, but, you know, for the family, I do it.

[Zach]

You do it for the kids.

[Al]

I do it for the kids.

[Jason]

And I have a birthday coming up and I'm not eating out.

[Al]

Right. And I would never even see you. And I have the code. I would never even think to ask you to go. I mean, what would you say if I said, james, why don't I take you out for lunch on your birthday? What would you say if I said that to you?

[Jason]

I would say I've always had a problem of going out and eating something in a celebration context. That's going to be worse than what I could do myself.

[Al]

That's right. And it's also.

[Zach]

You're saying the food's better at home.

[Al]

Oh, it's much better.

[Jason]

I'm not saying I agree. I'm commanding that.

[Zach]

There you go.

[Al]

We don't just call dogs that we command.

[Jason]

That's why when you see me taking the three items to a deserted island, one of which being a black cast iron skillet, I think that tells you all you need to know.

[Zach]

You're not taking him out for your birthdays.

[Al]

That ain't gonna happen. But so, Sage, so it's funny because, like, my. My grand.

[Jason]

I want to make one comment for you. When I got home from the podcast where she said, don't throw me under the bus. When I got back, she said, well, I said, I didn't throw you under the bus. I threw you under a black iron skillet.

[Al]

That's a good line. It actually opened and closed that podcast. So. So Sage is funny because my grandsons, they want to go out and eat. You know, it's funny because they don't eat out a lot either because Alex cooks. But they're always wanting it. Let's go to Wingstyle. Let's go.

[Jason]

Teenagers are in preteen. They're. They're weird about that. They discover, oh, there's food and places you can go. And they think the experience is.

[Al]

They do.

[Jason]

Because I went through the same thing.

[Al]

Right.

[Jason]

Me and Willie used to go to town.

[Al]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason]

And have all our money.

[Al]

I remember the first time I was with y' all the first time you did that. And I didn't know because y' all are a little bit younger than me. So I was just happened to be riding along for some reason. Y' all were both teenagers and we were in the size, little black Nissan. Remember we had that truck.

[Jason]

Oh, wow. Yeah. With multiple fights over who was going.

[Al]

To be driving that little jump seat behind you.

[Jason]

The reason I say our money was in a bag because it was all coinage. That's all the money we had.

[Al]

This was leftovers and looking under couch cushions. Couch cushions.

[Jason]

In our age of technology and spot being overall spoiled as a culture, maybe Willie and I were like, can you believe they have places that will cook for you? All you have to do is get money. Some money.

[Al]

So I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again because it's worth it. They, Jace and Willie would buy as much food as the money they had would buy. In other words, it wasn't like, yeah, I'll take a number one. Like, now we got a number which limits you. They were like, okay, I can. I can get three of these. I can get two of those. And what if I have left? So you're getting a running tally. They would look down and they would have like 47 cents left and say, what can you give for 47 cents?

[Zach]

They'll say, can you add a small French fry?

[Jason]

Yeah. We were single handedly responsible for. For putting the drive through process to the test. To the ultimate test.

[Al]

Well, people would be cursing you today.

[Zach]

Wow. That's why we got so unhealthy. We. We grew up eating the. All the junk. I mean, I was the same way we eating, like, sweet buns and all the fast food once. I mean, once you kind of got access to that McDonald's.

[Al]

I used to love it.

[Jason]

Yeah, it's great being raised in the wilderness, but there is a. A period of time when you.

[Al]

It was a shiny.

[Jason]

It was a shiny moment civilization that you realize, oh, this is amazing. You know, so.

[Al]

So. So last night I'm home, and so I'm like, okay, I. I missed the birthday. So. So I. Take wherever you want to go. Take the whole family. And so I. Sage doesn't really have a place. And so she said, well, I want to go to Walk Ons, which is Drew Brees. Owns a series of restaurants.

[Jason]

Very familiar. They have one item there that I just absolutely love.

[Al]

They have a. Several good things there.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Al]

And we love Drew Brees. He was so great playing for the Saints. But anyway, so I was like, why Walk on? She said, well, I ate my second cheeseburger there. I said, you're second? She said, yeah. I said, okay, that's where we're going. Walk on. So we. We went there last night, and mom was so excited for the outing. Like, now that she's feeling well again, she's like, I want to go. And I said, well, mom, you think you can get in my truck? Because Anna's been taking around this little car because it's kind of easier for her to get in. I was like, my truck is here. Are you ready? Because she. She can climb into it pretty good when she's feeling good. And she did. She scampered up in my truck, and she. We went over. She had a big time. It was a. It was a deluge rain. We got there, we had to wait for the rain to settle. But she's really doing well. And so I just wanted to let unashamed nation know, because I know you guys worry about mom, but she's doing fantastic. She's. Right now, she's living with my daughter Anna, kind of right in the middle of the compound, so everybody can stop by and see her. And, you know, it's all working out really well. So appreciate all the prayers that you do, but, you know, health is important. You know, we all get to that place, right, Zach?

[Zach]

Well, what did you eat, Al? What did you eat?

[Al]

So I stuck with my PhD. I had. I had redfish. They had a redfish tacos.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Al]

With some slaw on there. Very good. Very PhD friendly.

[Jason]

I was hoping you would pick the best thing they had, but you.

[Al]

No, I have to. Instead of getting Waffle fries on the side. Which is what it comes.

[Zach]

I got broccoli.

[Jason]

Why would you think that whatever I was going to tell you had something to do with waffle fry? What I was going to tell?

[Al]

Well, because you, the stuff you Jace, you're a walking anomaly. You're skinny, you always have been but you eat some of the worst stuff that's for people.

[Jason]

You're not, Are you not curious about what I. You know, as much as I hate food, I don't eat it. I don't go out. There's one thing and I'll just like Missy will say, do you want me to go buy walk ons and pick you up separate? Well we, we don't have to.

[Al]

Is it the.

[Jason]

We know what this is.

[Al]

The devil on hors horseback. Shrimp? No. Okay, that's pretty good.

[Jason]

I'm just so disappointed.

[Zach]

What is it?

[Al]

What is it?

[Jason]

It's called and I got it by accident the first time Missy got a salad and I said I think they have a seared tuna salad.

[Al]

Oh yeah, yeah, somebody got that last.

[Jason]

Well that's not it. That's what I ordered. Well when she brought back the little.

[Al]

Box like I'm pulling teeth here.

[Jason]

When I got the little box I thought this doesn't look like a salad. I thought I told you to get the tuna salad. And she's like I told him what you told me and that's what they gave me. And so I opened it up and there's this tuna over rice.

[Al]

Oh yeah.

[Jason]

With I'm out mango.

[Al]

Yep, yep.

[Jason]

And it has some beans.

[Al]

Last night BK got that very dish.

[Zach]

See, I couldn't eat that. I've got a little hack I'm doing now. I, I signed up for this thing called levels and actually telling me about this. Oh this thing's awesome. It's a whole app.

[Jason]

I love to know why you couldn't eat that. Because it's one of the best things.

[Al]

I've ever eaten and it's very healthy.

[Jason]

Yeah, it's healthy.

[Zach]

So I've been studying what I eat and I can tell in real time what I'm eating, what it does to my blood sugar. And then I have a glucose monitor that I wear and it's actually eye opening so I don't the mangoes out the rice out. This tuna I could do if I touch that rice though. You talk about send my blood sugar through the roof. Fast food out. But there's a lot of things I can eat so I've actually learned.

[Al]

So you're telling me you can eat something and then instantly know that it. You didn't react. Your body did not react well to whatever you just ate. Yeah.

[Zach]

Because what I figured out about me, I didn't know this, but I was actually. My blood sugar was a little high, and so I got a whole thing.

[Al]

I'm doing the doctor pre diabetic type.

[Zach]

So pre diabetic. Because you get to. I mean, I'm looking at my blood sugar and it's supposed to like, pop up and pop back down and mine would stay up. I've ran my blood panels. I found this out. This is actually interesting. My biological age, according to the levels app, is I'm 39. So I'm in decent shape.

[Jason]

I mean, I'm not.

[Zach]

I'm not bad. I have some things I need to work on. I had a little deficiency of omega 3 fatty acids. I mean, I know my body to the levels. For me, it's been a big motivator. And I actually. They're going to sponsor our podcast, but I was. I joined up before that, before they even were sponsored, just because I'd heard about it. I saw them on another podcast and I've been trying. It's been awesome.

[Al]

But that's going to help me then because I'm getting close to what they call maintenance, and I need a way to, like, track. So that's going to.

[Zach]

It'll try.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

It's a. I mean, it's. It's the. It's the next level. It's biohacking. You couldn't.

[Al]

So you're a biohacker.

[Zach]

Biohacker.

[Jason]

And what I also noticed is he's kind of like the weather. They'll give you a temperature and they'll say, but it feels like it's 97.

[Zach]

I'm 47, but I feel like I'm 39.

[Jason]

I feel like I'm 39.

[Al]

So I've always thought that you had certain days.

[Jason]

I always thought that you could. If this doesn't work out for you, you could be like a weather guy. They're like, trust me, it's not 97. You think it's 97, but it feels.

[Zach]

Like it's 102 levels. I'm telling you, though, this thing's a game changer. And it's been like the best thing I've done. Al, you need to try it. I would say you should.

[Al]

Yeah. Because it sounds like something I could use for sure.

[Zach]

So they're going to do something for our listeners. They're going to give two months free if you do like an annual membership levels link, slash unashamed. That's the, that's the website. I don't know how, how long they're going to do the offer. It's, it's been awesome for me.

[Al]

I mean, I was talking to my, my, my counselor, my PhD counselor this week after my trip to Ireland, and I told her, I said, you know, because we, I don't eat a lot of bread here in the States because it's so processed. And, and I was telling her I was eating in Ireland, which is not. They make everything fresh. And look, we had bread that was made. It had seaweed in the bread. And I was like, well, you don't get any more natural than that because they're living on the coast and it was delicious. I could not believe it.

[Jason]

Well, I've always joked that because I've used this illustration before when people say, oh, I, I can't eat bread, because I'm like, well, what are you going to tell Jesus about that little thing where he fed 5,000 and had, like, leftovers? And there, look, you know what they said, Zach? They said, well, you'd have to get the recipe first.

[Zach]

Well, that was a different kind of bread because it was like the, it was, it was whole grain. They didn't, it wasn't genetically modified. So there's, Look, I'm telling y', all, I, I've been, I've watched this stuff kind of skeptically about biohacking and just metabolic health. But, but I'm telling you, levels, it's real. I'm watching it in real time. I'm seeing what I'm eating, and it's, it's legit.

[Al]

Well, speaking of bread, there's my segue. Speaking of bread, I didn't plan on segueing into John 13 this way, but it actually fits well, because we're at a moment in John 13 where Jesus has mentioned, in Psalm 41, he brings up the quote that the one who he's going to share some bread with is the one who's going to betray him, is this moment. But you read it beautifully, Jason. The last podcast that David, Psalm 40 leading up to Psalm 41 is this beautiful picture of the love of God and just how powerful it is.

[Jason]

And tying in with that question that we originally asked three or four podcasts ago when he said, do you understand what I'm doing for you? How the will of God translates to the love of God? And which I had way more stuff on that. You know, you can do your own rabbit hole, but I do think that that question helps you understand some of the more difficult themes and verses in the Bible. And I'll give you a couple of examples before we move on, you know, to Judas role in this. You remember when he prayed? He taught him how to pray, and he said, you will be done.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

On earth as it is in heaven. And you remember when he's praying later, before he's going to die on the cross, and he's like, not my will, but your will be done. When you tie that with love, those verses start making sense. It's like, yeah, he's looking around. This is rough. God becoming a human. Can you imagine you're the creator of the universe and you take this on in this world with the evil one roaming around and all the things.

[Al]

It's almost just like he said that. One of the times he said that. Remember, it was in the garden when he was, like, sweating drops of blood and just, like, having this human moment about what he was about to face. And that's what he came back to.

[Zach]

So Jill and I, we spent a little bit of time up in the Ozark Mountains last week with our kids, staying at a camp. And let me just tell you, they did not have the Helix mattress. Ow. It was brutal.

[Al]

Oh, you miss it, don't you, Zach? I mean, when you don't have it, you can tell the difference, and it takes one night to know the difference.

[Zach]

So we got started on this. Jill and I, we took the super simple Helix sleep quiz, and we were matched with what's called the midnight luxe mattress. And it's perfect for us because it's not too firm, it's not too soft, and we're side sleepers, so that matters. We've had our mattress for, I don't know, I mean, several years now. And honestly, it's been the best sleep that we've ever had. That's why Helix is probably our longest sponsor. I think we've had al you and Lisa. You guys are a Helix family as well.

[Al]

And not only Zach, is it just us enjoying our sleep because we're. Moonlight was our number because we're back sleeper. It's also, you know, we host a lot of people, and so you guys come and stay at our house. And so to have Helix mattresses where other people can get up and say, you know, that's one of the best night sleeps I ever had. I mean, you like that as a host. You know, you like being able to have a great, comfortable bed for your guests.

[Zach]

Yeah, absolutely. That's why When I come in town to either stay at your house or Jason Missy's because they're also a Helix family as well. So I wanted. I want you guys to check these guys out. If you have trouble sleeping, if you wake up with pain in your hip, your shoulders, or whatever, I'm telling you, this is a game changer. So for a limited time, go to helixsleep.com unashamed for 27% off site wide. Exclusive for listeners of Unashamed. That's our listeners. That's helixsleep.com unashamed for 27% off site wide. Again, that's helixsleep.com unassamed.

[Al]

It's almost like he was reminding himself that, look, the reason I'm here is because of our love for these people. I mean, it's like a reminder.

[Jason]

Well, and it's just so inspiring to us because in our broken world and our broken families and all this, you know, you. You run up on Jesus and then you. You realize, oh, he. He's running after me. And it. There's a. There's a moment, there's a clarity that you're like, I might have been unloved as a human just based on my environment and having bad parents or whatever, and now all of a sudden you discover, oh, I've been loved all along, right?

[Al]

And I think the contrast of what we're about to see here with Judas, because of him using this quote from Psalm 41 and him using this idea of the heel analogy, it's interesting because David brings it up way back there in Psalm, but then Jesus says it here. We've already made the link back to Genesis 3:15, which is this idea of evil is there. Cause, look, if you don't. To understand love, you have to understand the antithesis of love, which is hate. And for whatever reason, the evil one hates us. I mean, he does, because every action he's ever had from the very beginning was not love, but was done in hate.

[Jason]

I'm glad you brought that up, because I think the last couple podcasts have been beautiful about why did Jesus come? Because he loved us. But also, there's another answer to that question. And you see it seen here through Judas. You're like, well, who moved? If God has been loving us all along, who. Who caused the separation, right? And trust me, this separation that you're fixing to see with Judas, it didn't just occur right here in this moment. It had already occurred in his heart, right? And it was leading up to him declaring. And it. There's a Peculiar phrase there. It was like at that moment. Yeah. Satan entered him.

[Al]

Yeah. The way. The way it's framed. The way it's framed and phrased. So I want to bring up one other thing before we leave this heal analogy, because this is something Zach and I are doing, along with Christian, John, Luke, some stuff for Hillsdale Podcast, because of their courses they do. And so we've done one on Genesis, which we're excited to present to you guys. And in that, Zach, I don't know if you remember, we talked about Jacob and esau in Genesis 25 and Jacob. So this picture is a great picture. And again, the Bible doesn't do anything accidentally. Jesus is there even in this idea of watching the birth of Jacob and Esau way, way back, because you had these two nations jostling inside the womb of their mother. And that was the idea of these two sons that would come forward. And Jacob, you know, he was going to be the one that carried the blessing and all the things that happened, but he didn't come out first. Esau did. And so his name means the deceiver, but it also literally means he who grasped the heel. So imagine this baby is born, and all of a sudden, Jacob reaches out. This is in childbirth, and it's like he grabs Esau to pull him back. It's like, no, I'm going to go first. And so they spend the whole part of their early life in this back and forth of deceit. And it's a great story if you want to read it, in Genesis 25:30, too. But it's interesting. And this is what brings the point forward, I think, in what we're talking about today is that Jacob finally has a moment as a deceiver when he's been deceived over and over and over again about his wives and his kids. He's got four wives. He's got 12 sons. He's got just a disaster. I call it the blended family that was thrown in the blender.

[Jason]

What could go wrong? Al? Four wives, man.

[Al]

You talk about a blended family. And then he gets to this point in Genesis 32 where he wrestles with this figure. I mean, I'll just call it that. It's some sort of supernatural figure. And he winds up having an injury to his hip. And, like, you know, it's like finally he, like, surrenders to God in this moment, and his name has changed from the deceiver to Israel, I mean, which means he struggles with God. And so it's such a picture of us. And this idea of Surrender. And then the next chapter, he finally faces Esau, his brother, who wants to kill him. And. And he comes out humbly and says, I've been wrong all this time. And when he's expecting Esau to cut his head off, Esau forgives him. It's just this beautiful moment. And I love the picture because it's just a picture of exactly what's about to happen in this text, which is this ideal of the evil. One is always present to try to take away what God is putting in us. And I think that's the reason why we see this picture of Judas in our text. So let me pick it up in verse 21, because I'm going to advance our text because here's what happened. And we've referenced this a couple of times, but let's read it. So he says, well, I'll read you verse 20. He said, I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I sin accepts me, and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me. So he links back to this idea, he and the Father. And then here's something interesting. He says in verse 21, after he had said this, Jesus was troubled in spirit. And, you know, I find this interesting, Jase. That same Greek word there for troubled in spirit is the one he uses. And we're going to get to in John 14, 1, do not let your hearts be troubled. That's the same Greek word when he's telling them, look, there's something good coming. But in this case, he felt like they did. He was troubled in spirit. And he testified, I tell you the truth, one of you is going to betray me. So he just says it out loud, which had to have been shocking to these 12 men, and probably even Judas as well, because he's like, oh, no, he knows. He's the only one thinking. He knows.

[Jason]

Yeah, well, and Judas, I think, had justified it in thinking, you have a marketing problem. My way. I mean, because you got to remember that we're reading these stories and like, oh, he all along. No, he didn't like the picture of his political kingship. And he's more thinking about, let's get a lot of money, let's get in with the right people.

[Al]

We're building a movement here.

[Jason]

Well, right. So his plan, his view of God or having a messiah was what he wanted to go with. So he's justifying the act. I mean, there's no doubt there's a reason Jesus chose him, and he just didn't want to. He didn't want to follow that narrative. So we do the same thing. I mean, that is the temptation when you read things about who God is and that doesn't fit your lifestyle. Think like when he told the rich young ruler, go sell everything you have. Well, that was a deal breaker.

[Al]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jason]

That narrative is not working with me following you if that has to happen.

[Al]

And it didn't even, it wasn't even relevant to whether he was a pretty good guy or not. Apparently he was a really good guy.

[Jason]

Exactly.

[Al]

But he hadn't committed his heart, you know.

[Jason]

Yeah, it was a surrender problem, you know.

[Zach]

So, Jase, right over your shoulder is your dad's old Bible that we've got in the studio. I love to see it because it's got all his old notes in there.

[Al]

He loved to underline and highlight in his Bible.

[Zach]

One of the problems is when you highlight your Bible is that it bleeds through the page. And I always hated that. But these Christian teachers right there in Louisiana, Cajun country, they have a fix for it. Their company called Mr. Penn, they make the best Bible journaling tools and pens on the market. Best I've ever used, including highlighters and pens. I got some right here. I use them all the time and they don't bleed through the pages, which is the best part. We actually bought a bunch of these because we're going to give them for gifts for people. Mr. Pen's great for like birthday gifts or graduation gifts. Kids going to school. I love using their pens and highlighters in my Bible because they don't bleed through the pages, they don't smudge in the margins. And they also have these transparent sticky notes that I use and you can actually read through the notes and they have a really nice selection of journaling Bibles. So I have this one right here. If you notice here, they have margins on the side where you can put your notes and stuff. It's pretty incredible. Mr. Pen also has these really good fine tipped pens that just glide across the page. And you got to check out their Bible and journaling kits as well. These are great gifts for really anyone who spends time in the word. Mr. Pen has over 100,000 five star reviews on Amazon. And we know why we give these five stars as well. So if you're looking for a gift for yourself or someone else, go check out Mr. Penn's collections of our favorite Bible tools. And right now you can get 10% off your first order with our code unashamed at checkout. Check out the products that we use in our [e-mail] unashamed that's M r p n.com unashamed code. Unashamed. Yeah. And he ended up being taken over by Satan in the end, which is. That's always the end of the death work. That's always the end goal. Regardless what. You know, there's a big. Jesus Christ Superstar is back out, I think right now. Which is supposed to be the story of Jesus through the perspective of Judas. It's been very controversial just because of a lot of the. It's really a mockery of Christ. But no matter what Broadway says, no. Jesus was pure and holy and blameless and Judas was not. And it is interesting to me that in this knowledge of Christ and his omniscience, he knows. He knows Judas is going to betray him. And Christ is not necessarily. I don't want to say he's not a victim. He's willfully laying down his life and submitting to this betrayal. Which is incredible when you think about. We're talking about the sovereign king of the universe. And when you had mentioned earlier about understanding love, how you said you also have to understand its counterpart.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

To really. Which is hate or it's the opposite of love is hate. And to really understand it, another thing you have to really understand, to really grasp love is you particularly when it comes to the love of who God is, you have to understand his sovereignty and his glory and his power. Because however far you see God above us, like how far he transcends above us, which is, by the way, it's an infinite distance. It's an infinite chasm. You can never see the height of his glory. But however high you see him, that's how far he had to come down to put himself in a human body and submit himself to this type of betrayal by a human being, one he created, and ultimately death on a cross. And so that's why the love component, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense until you start to understand who is this Jesus that's sitting here at this meal with his disciples? He's not just a good guy. We are talking about the Creator of the cosmos, the one through whom all things were made and without him, nothing was made. We are talking about God incarnate. So it just brings a little bit more of a lot. It brings an infinite amount more of understanding of how bizarre is it that he would submit himself to this betrayal.

[Jason]

I think a couple of caveats on that. When you say love and hate, the Greek definition of hate is not what our current English definition of hate is because he uses it in some Context, like, remember with his family, he's like.

[Al]

It needs to love less as opposed to.

[Jason]

Well, right. And that's a big deal because what's happened is if you use the English definition, you get into there's some doctrines out there which is not consistent with the narrative of God being love. It's like when he said, whoever wants to come after me must hate his mother, his father, his brother, his sister. Where is that? Luke 14. What does that mean? It's not, you know, I think that's an important point because even in romans is it 9 where he says Jacob I love and Esau I hated.

[Al]

Yeah, that's a big point. Yeah.

[Jason]

But you can, if you're applying our modern day definition, well, you can go down a rabbit hole that is not there.

[Al]

Right.

[Jason]

So that was one caveat. I had another one.

[Zach]

Well, the line, I mean, that's a quote that Romans 9 quotes a quote from Malachi. I think Malachi.

[Jason]

No, you're right. It tells the story. That's a very good point. You need to read Malachi trying to understand that. I think you made that point before and it's brilliant because Malachi really gives you an understanding of what that means.

[Al]

Which makes sense because when you go back and read the Genesis account, you're not finding that phrase at all. So it was Malachi was making a point when he quoted it and then Paul was making a point when he quoted Malachi.

[Zach]

Well, you also, because you brought up earlier the Jacob and Esau story at the beginning of the podcast and you brought up Genesis 25. I mean, even there it's pretty clear as you kind of move through, through it that he's talking about the nation of Israel because Jacob became synonymous with Israel and Esau became synonymous with Edom. And that's pretty clear throughout their whole history of the story. And so the Edomites were in the end were at odds with Israel and they wouldn't let Israel pass through their land. So when you get to Malachi, where that actual quote is at, if you read the whole entire prophecy of Malachi, very clearly he's juxtaposing Israel with Edom. And so that's kind of the whole. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, right. So when you get to the book of Romans, that's kind of what he's talking about is Paul being the apostle to the Gentiles now is laying out the case for how the Gentiles being grafted in to Israel, explaining what all that means.

[Al]

But this because you have problems that when you try to make the point of the two men and you focus on them. Because like I said, when you get to Genesis 33, they worked it out. So it has to be the idea of their progeny going forward in nations and how they didn't work it all out.

[Zach]

Well, it's a great point because the older will serve the younger is the prophecy in Genesis 25, before the twins were born. But if you actually read the text, Jacob in the end comes to Esau.

[Al]

That's right.

[Zach]

Who's the older? And so the younger actually bows down to the older and calls him Lord. And like, he's like, spare me. And so you actually see, let me serve you as what you actually see.

[Al]

So the prophecy, grasping of the hill ideas there, which we learned that in our hills day, of course, he grasped the heel of his livestock and children. That was the actual word that's in the text in saying, here before me is everything at your service.

[Zach]

Yeah. So when you get to Romans 9, it just takes on, I think, a lot deeper meaning than just some. It's not just a doctrinal position that's being laid out by Paul. He's actually building this incredible case. It actually starts at the very beginning of the Book of Romans when he says that Paul, he says, I'm basically an apostle to the Gentiles and I came to bring the Gentiles to the obedience of faith. That's how he starts the Book of Romans, and that's how he actually ends the Book of Romans with the very same phrase to bring the Gentiles to the obedience of faith. So Romans is a book that's explaining what does it even mean? What is the obedience of faith? What does it even mean? And you're seeing it like it's faith in Christ. And so what Christ is doing here in, in chapter 13 of John is this is the foundational. These are foundational chapters of Jesus's story of what we're actually putting our faith or who we're actually putting our faith into.

[Al]

That's good. Did you think of the other caveat?

[Jason]

Yeah, the other caveat was, I think people have asked me before, well, how did that work? And I'm just strictly bringing this up because it is difficult to wrap your head around because you're like, well, how did you. How did Jesus know if he became a man? How did he know Judas was going to betray him? Now, John 2, back when we were there at the end, after his little Temple discourse about I am the Temple, he then makes a statement. John does that Jesus didn't need the testimony of man, because what does it say exactly? He did not need this is 2:25, man's testimony about man. For he knew what was in a man. And he also is fixing to predict that Peter is going to deny him. He literally looked into the future in some capacity. The only reason I'm bringing it up because people say, well, how did that work? I thought he was tempted in every way. I thought he was a man. And he is a man. He's called the Son of Man. He is so. And it's not as easily answered as you might think, because, like, Zach made a reference. Well, he's, you know, God's omniscient, but he became a man. Well, let me throw this one thing out, so you can pick whatever option you want, but you do got to realize, you know, he never did a miracle before he had the Holy Spirit, you know, at his baptism, which. I'm just throwing that out there. Yeah, I don't think that's a coincidence, but. And he also grew and learned like that, that little verse that says he grew in wisdom. Well, why is he having to grow in wisdom if he had all wisdom? You see? So I was just making a point. I do think somehow because the Holy Spirit was working also, or he couldn't be walking on the water. A man can't walk on the water without sinking. What's happening here? You know.

[Al]

So pets have always been a part of our life. In fact, Jase, I would say because in our hunting exploits, you know, all of our labs through the years, and they're more than just a pet. I mean, they're like a part of the whole operation. Right.

[Jason]

Even my two little dogs, I've been feeding them this product, Rough Greens, and they love it.

[Al]

We feed our pets Rough Greens and they are excited about it. And I didn't know this, Jase, but 50% of all dogs over the age of 10 die from cancer. And the leading cause of that cancer is the food that they've been fed. So old friend Dr. Dennis Black, who's the founder of Ruffgreens, he says he can't promise to keep your dogs from passing away, but he does promise to make them happier and healthier while they're here. Ruff Greens is full of the live nutrients that your pup needs to fight off skin, joint, and digestive problems, and, yes, even cancer. With live vitamins, probiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and antioxidants, Ruff Greens has all the live nutrition your pup needs to stay healthy and happy. That's why America's number one dog supplement is rough greens. And look, my dogs, they line up when it's time to eat, sort of like your two now. And they realize it's time for the rough greens. And so we love that. Here's what you want to do. Fetch a free Jumpstart trial bag for your dog today. Just cover shipping and see the difference live nutrition can make in your dog. Try it before you buy it. Go to roughgreens.com use the discount code unashamed that's R U F F greens.com discount code unashamed.

[Zach]

You got what you and you have Mark 13 what the where Jesus says, but concerning the day or that hour, this is the Olivet discourse. No one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. So then you're like, wait, wait, wait.

[Jason]

Great.

[Zach]

How does he not know?

[Jason]

That was my point. I don't have a problem with this discourse. I'm 100% secure because I think there was these manifestations of the Holy Spirit combined with his growing as a human and learning and wisdom to be able to discern. And you got to remember, if you do everything right, just think about living as an adult and you never make a misstep. Your ability to discern human nature is going to be at a way higher level.

[Al]

Just as a human be the highest.

[Zach]

Well and well this is and even.

[Al]

Show the inside at 12 years old when he's there in the temple. You know what I'm saying?

[Zach]

Full of the Spirit. Full of the Spirit. Which is that I was going to say like the way that I understand this to be is that you got to understand Jesus as having two natures. You have Jesus being incarnate, which is the incarnation of the Son, but then you have the Son who's not incarnate. Like the pre existing, like the Creator of the universe. Yeah, Creator of the universe.

[Jason]

He's been here all along.

[Zach]

He'd been here always. So Jesus is the incarnation of the Son. And so in the incarnated state there are limits in his humanness, not in his divine state, but in his human state. Because as I just read in Mark 13, he did not have the knowledge of that hour or that day. No one knows that the Father. And then also you had this kind of in Isaiah 2. Isaiah 2 says that the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, speaking of the Christ, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. So when you get to the new Testament. And then the Messiah comes and Jesus, God comes incarnate. He is dependent on the Father for everything, and he does nothing based on his own accord. According to his own words in John 5, when he says, truly, truly, I say to you, the Son of Man can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing, for whatever the Father does that the Son does likewise. So it shows that Jesus's ministry is actually very dependent on the Father and the Holy Spirit for that matter, because in Luke 4, it says, in Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned to the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness. So that. Well, what does that tell you? That tells you that he is dependent on the Spirit for his mission and for his guidance. And I think, to your point, the baptism is important, a baptism of Jesus, because that's the moment the Spirit of God comes on him, descends on him like a dove. And then it's almost like, okay, now it's time to start the ministry. Now go. So you see this playing out here. So if Jesus has foreknowledge, if he does perform a miracle, he's doing it by his Father or the Spirit. That's where this is coming from. In his incarnated state, he's calling back on the divine nature to do these things.

[Jason]

No. Well said. And I was going to go to that. Like the gifts, even in First Corinthians of discernment and different things and knowledge and prophecy and all these things, which was an active thing in the early church. He didn't have a Bible. Here's a man claiming to be God, and that was how God chose to confirm. Think Hebrews 2:4. Why did he do all these miracles? I mean, Hebrews 2:1:4 describes that it was to confirm that he was who he was. So I just wanted to bring that up because that is a little confusing to wrap your head around.

[Zach]

But at the end, how he would know.

[Jason]

Yeah, at the end of the day, I think it's important because this is God and humans getting back together. So here's a God who's become a human to fulfill that goal in love, which I think it's important to, I guess, you know, think about. Because when you now you have Judas, which is weird because you're like, well, how come he. He chose him if he knew he was going to betray him? Of course he gave one reason, because it was predicted that that would happen.

[Zach]

Yeah. The answer is he chose him. Why did he choose him if he knew he was going to betray him? It's because he knew he was going to betray him. That was like part of the world.

[Al]

Just because he knew doesn't change the fact that Judas had to make a decision. Which is why to your point earlier, I think was a brilliant one that we read into this like it was just already decided and Judas was on this pathway and nothing could have happened. And just because things had been predicted, but Judah still had to decide every step of the way. That's why I think it's so important that we get into this text and it says, finally he crosses over and this moment says that Satan entered him. I don't believe that was demon possession.

[Jason]

No. Now look, I knew this was going to come up. And look, I may be on an island. I could be wrong. I think it's just the continuing narrative of what happened to Genesis 3. It all happens to us. And it doesn't mean. I had an argument with a guy one time, which was kind of peculiar because he made the statement that Jesus didn't love Judas. And I was like, well, if he hadn't washed his feet, I might would entertain that thought. But I kind of went with the God is love. He created us.

[Al]

In that verse where it said he loved them, that meant it didn't say, except for, no, he's going to show.

[Jason]

You the full extent of his love. And guess what? He had his feet out there and he loved you. He chose not to reciprocate, which we all kind of have that choice. Which is why Zach and I, a few podcasts ago, when you were having storm problems, went through that Deuteronomy 30 because it's the same picture, even under the law. And when you read Romans 10, you're like, oh. Because at the end of Deuteronomy 30, he's basically, he lays it all out. He's like, I'm offering life, prosperity, success and blessing. Now on the other side of this is curse, destruction, death, and whatever the opposite of the other one I said was. And then he gets to the end in Deuteronomy 30 is like, make the right choice, right? And so I think you see that here. And so in that argument, you know, I read, I said, well, what about 1 John 2 where it says verse 2, talking about Jesus Christ in our defense? Because now he's representing humans before the throne of God. That's what he's doing. That's why he returned. So this verse says he's the atoning sacrifice for our sins because, you know, John's writing to Christians, but then he says, not only for Ours, but also for the sins of the whole world. Which was what was interesting when I was having this argument. He's like, well, that doesn't mean the whole world. And I thought, okay, I'm just going to forget you said that, but let me. Because he was like, well, that means our whole world or whatever as Christians. I said, well, what about 2 Corinthians 5, which I realize I'm just picking random verses, but I think you see this concept, because love is God and that goes in with the will of God on why Jesus came. And this is a very, very good verse. When 2 Corinthians 5:14 says, For Christ's love compels us. And watch how he phrases it here. Because we are convinced that one died for all. I mean, I'm assuming that's Judas included. But then it says, and therefore all died. But here's the key verse, the next one. And he died for all that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised again.

[Zach]

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[Al]

You know, one of the things, Zach, that I always say is as I've gotten older, I realize when I look back is that debt crushes opportunity. And so what happens is not only feel the pressure of the financial pressure, but you don't have opportunity. So things come along that you could have put an investment in or you could have done something you have Nothing when you have this mountain of debt on top of you. If we had only known about done with debt, we could have started this freedom for opportunity at such an earlier age.

[Zach]

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[Jason]

We'Ll put Judas in that scenario. He washed his feet and what did he do? He didn't respond. It was a shadow of him dying on the cross. And he got his feet washed just like he died on the cross for Judas sins and mine. But he chose to look at that foot washing and say, no, I'm not going to live. I'm not. This is not the example. I'm not going to wash somebody's feet. I'm going to turn him in and see if he really is who he says he is. And which is what I think. I think Judas had a narrative in his mind. I'm purely speculating, but in cahoots with the evil one that said, okay, he claims to be God, well, let's kill him and just let's bring this to a head if he comes back, okay, well, I did him a favor. I just sped the process up, you see.

[Al]

But you know what?

[Zach]

I think John 12 gives us a little bit of a window into this because it's a really good point we're talking about here. Because if you go back and research this, Judas had actually already planned this betrayal. He was already corrupted before Satan entered into him in John 13.

[Jason]

And John, I agree, by him declaring this, it was just a sign of what had already happened.

[Zach]

Well, do you remember what happened when he objected to Mary's use of the perfumes? He was a thief having charge of the money back. He used to help himself to what was put into it. So you already see greed in his heart before all this even happened. And if you look at Matthew 26, you also get, you get this idea that this is happening. He's corrupted before Satan enters him. And it reminds me of the Pharaoh story in Exodus, which by the way is also mentioned in Romans 9. And so the hardening of Pharaoh's heart is another really controversial text. But it's the same thing going on here. That Hebrew word for harden is a word called chazak, which means to strengthen in resolve. So you have a resolve, you have a bent that you're going towards. I'm going to strengthen you in that. That's the word harden in Exodus. And so if you read the story of Exodus, Pharaoh had hardened his own heart several times.

[Jason]

I agree. I've noticed too, when I read that it starts off saying he's hardened. And then as the process goes on, you then get the phrase, well, God hardened his heart because he would just.

[Zach]

Yeah, he's left to his own devices.

[Al]

And when you're left to your own devices, the more you'll finally just do it. I told you guys. A practical example of this. When Jep said he was in the world as a prodigal and he went into a bar and there was a guy there that went to church with us and he looked at Jeff and he said, oh, man, we've been waiting for you to get here. We need you out here. Well, someone who says a statement like that has already given in.

[Jason]

Well, it's like doing the phrase. I think Zach said this before. The absence of the presence of God is going to bring more problems and more hardening of the heart. Just think you're choosing, well, what is it to say, I don't want the presence of God in my life because I don't even believe there is a God.

[Zach]

So think about his wrath. Then his wrath is seen in a little different light all of a sudden, because then it's like, wait a second. Romans 1 says the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. Because what may be, since what may be known about God is plain to them because God has made it plain to him. And then you skip down and it says, this is the wrath of God right here. God gave them over in the sinful desires of their heart. He gave them over to themselves. God gave them over to shameful lust. So think about what that, what the wrath of God as presented in Romans 1 is. God just basically saying, okay, I'm going to let you do you and you just go do what you want to do. That's his wrath, at least in part. It's his wrath that he's letting us. He's leaving us to ourselves. And I think Judas in that moment is. I think that the Spirit of God was pulling back his common grace over Judas and he's just letting, okay, this is the route you're going. And God will use your evil. That's what's crazy about it. God will use your own evil desires and your own evil belligerence and your own willful rejection of him. He will ultimately use that for his Glory and what you think is victory will actually be his victory in the end. To me, that's the big story here, is that Judas was belligerent in his willful rejection of Christ. He was corrupt from the beginning. I'm thinking about the guy you mentioned that went to Jeff and said that in the bar. I believe that guy's in prison right now. But God will give you over to yourself, but God will end up using that for his glory. So in this case, what Judas thought was him winning and he's making some money out of it. He gets his 30 pieces of silver, Jesus gets captured, they crucify him. Looks like all is lost. But three days later he's coming out of the grave. And now we're all here because Jesus Christ came out of the grave.

[Jason]

Yeah. And through that he defeated the powers who are accusing and prosecuting, you know, human beings tempting. He disarmed them by that very act.

[Al]

And remember, Jesus is the one that keeps bringing up this contrast. Remember in John 10 when he's talking about the good shepherd, he brought up the thief that comes to steal and kill and destroy.

[Jason]

Of course, he also declared, and I'm not that I came to give you life. Well, don't make God a thief, a robber or he's not robbing anything.

[Al]

It reminded me of a story that N.T. wright talks about in the John for Everyone book I've been reading about a slaughterhouse that was there in the town where he grew up in. And the sheep would go. But the sheep would get real nervous about when they get to the slaughterhouse. They had a sense that someone write about this. Of course, they were about to be slaughtered. And so these people devised a plan to have a sheep that had gotten used to being there. And the sheep would lead these other sheep into the slaughterhouse. You know what they named the sheep? Judas. I mean, so even way back then, in a practical setting, this idea was there.

[Jason]

Let me.

[Al]

Let me read the rest of this text and we'll close with this so we can pick it up next time. Verse 22. His disciples stared at one another at a loss to know which of of them he meant. Which made me think they all thought, is it me, one of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved? John, we think. And Jace brought this up before was reclining next to him. Peter motions to him and says, ask him which one he means. Which one he means leaning back against Jesus. He said, lord, who is it? It is the one to whom I give this piece of bread when I have dipped into the dish. So that's the direct prophecy back in Psalm 41. Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. So that relays then to John and I guess to Peter, who's watching. As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered him. What you are about to do, Jesus said, do quickly. Can you imagine what that meant in his heart when he said that? When he knew? But no one at the mill understood why Jesus said this to him. Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the feast or to give something into the poor. As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out and it was night. So we're out of time, but we're gonna leave it right there. We're gonna pick it up not only by finishing that thought off, but then we shifted over to Peter, who is gonna be predicted of his denial that same night. So we'll talk about the difference and what happens there. So we need to see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.