Ep 1156 | Miss Kay & Her Sister Cause Robertson Compound Chaos & Jase Walks in on an Eerie Sight

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Ep 1156 | Miss Kay & Her Sister Cause Robertson Compound Chaos & Jase Walks in on an Eerie Sight
Date: September 2, 2025
Host: Tread Lively
Featuring: Al, Zach, Jase, and family

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Episode Overview

This episode weaves together classic Robertson family chaos—thanks largely to Miss Kay and her sister’s visit—with a deep discussion on John 14–16 and the theology of God’s presence, the Holy Spirit, and what it means to be “the house of God.” Warm family stories and banter set the tone before the conversation shifts into rich biblical exploration.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Chaos of Home Life at the Robertson Compound

• Family Roles & Caretaking:

  • Al reflects on his daughter Anna’s role as primary caretaker for Miss Kay, highlighting her quiet servant’s heart.
    • “She’s like the nerve center. She runs everything in our compound... She just does little things.” (Al, 01:41)
  • With Anna away on break, Al and Lisa are managing the household, now including Miss Kay’s visiting sister, Aunt Ann, leading to humorous and stressful moments.
  • Al jokes about feeling like he’s “taking care of children again,” referencing the chaos two older women can bring.
    • “I never realized that two older women... it’s almost like I’ve reverted back. Like I’m taking care of children again.” (Al, 02:49)

• Jase’s Eerie Visit:

  • Zach recounts entering the empty compound, finding alarms blaring and the refrigerator open, thinking something apocalyptic had happened.
    • “There’s a lot of people that live here... 3:30 in the afternoon. No one’s here. I go over to your house... no one there.” (Zach, 05:13)

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Studying John 14–16: The Holy Spirit & the Presence of God

• Difficult Bible Passages:

  • The group struggles with the theological depth of John 14–16, admitting it's hard to study amid household chaos.
    • “I can’t go anywhere. I have no, no sanctuary. I have no quiet place.” (Al, 07:01)

• Translation & Interpretation Problems:

  • Zach notes translation issues from Greek to English can cause confusion, especially regarding “house,” “world,” “flesh,” and “judgment.”
    • “This translation from Greek to English causes some problems...” (Zach, 09:11)
  • They discuss how John 14:1–3 is read at funerals but may be misunderstood.

• Heaven, the Cube, & Revelation:

  • Jase connects biblical tabernacle imagery and the “Borg cube” from Bill Smith’s interpretation to the city in Revelation, exploring themes of God’s expanding presence.
    • “He had an image... big cube was attached to the earth.” (Al, 11:26)
    • “Wherever that place is, the one thing we know from the reading at the end of the Bible is that place is actually coming to us.” (Jase, 15:24)

• Misconceptions about Heaven:

  • The crew clarifies that “heaven coming to us” is a more biblically faithful picture than souls simply departing for a far-off place.

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The Dwelling of God: “House,” Temple, and the Holy Spirit

• Ephesians 2 and God’s Household:

  • Zach draws on Ephesians 2 to explain that God’s dwelling is within believers, not a physical location.
    • “It is a dwelling place in which God lives by his spirit. Well, where is that? In us, in people.” (Zach, 19:34)
  • The dual use of “house”—where God is and where we are—marks a key insight.

• John 14: Jesus Prepares a Place

  • The “place” Jesus prepares isn’t just a heavenly mansion—contextually, it also denotes believers being God’s dwelling (“He makes his home in us”).
  • Jase connects this idea to Hebrews 9 and Acts 17, reminding that God doesn’t live in temples made by hands.

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The Role of the Holy Spirit (John 16)

• Holy Spirit as Convicter, Revealer:

  • The Holy Spirit’s role, according to John 16, is to expose sin, reveal righteousness, and announce judgment.
    • “When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt or... will expose the guilt of the world...” (Zach, 23:44)
  • The “prince of this world now stands condemned” refers to Satan’s defeat.

• Indwelling of the Spirit and Believers’ Proof:

  • Zach points out that spirit-indwelled Christians are the “proof” of the risen Christ.
    • “Spirit indwelled humans that have surrendered to Jesus... they are the proof that Jesus was raised from the dead.” (Zach, 35:27)
  • Personal family history: Jase’s childhood question—“Does this mean the devil’s going to leave our daddy?”—touches on the spiritual transformation through the Spirit.

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Early Church, the “Way,” and Spiritual Community

• Acts as Narrative Continuation:
  • Jase and Zach walk through Acts 1–2: The 120 waiting for the Spirit, Pentecost, and the rapid spread of faith.
    • “There were 120 people... now has morphed into... we are descendants of the 120 that were in that room.” (Jace, 40:32)
  • Paul’s conversion links the theme of “the Way,” with followers of Jesus depicted as his new temple/body (Acts 22, 26).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “She’s quiet. The Robertson is strong in that one for sure.” (Al, 02:40)
• “I thought, boy, this place is... somebody ran out of there with their hair on fire... didn’t even close the fridge.” (Al, 06:12)
• “I can’t go anywhere. I have no, no sanctuary.” (Al, 07:01)
• “Wherever that place is... the one thing we know from the reading... is that place is actually coming to us.” (Jase, 15:24)
• “It is a dwelling place in which God lives by his spirit. Well, where is that? In us, in people.” (Zach, 19:34)
• “If God would just speak to me, oh, then I’d follow him...” (Zach, 35:11)
• “They are now the body of the risen Christ.” (Zach, 35:49)
• “How in the world can my body house God? Well, that’s the whole point.” (Jase, 55:26)
• “Love... For God so loved the world is the driving force for the exposure.” (Zach, 58:19)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:04–03:36 – Family chaos at the compound, Anna’s role, Al’s humorous predicament
• 03:54–06:20 – Zach’s “apocalyptic” experience and fridge story
• 07:21–11:07 – Struggles with studying, translation difficulties, introduction of John 14–16
• 13:28–16:45 – Revelation’s “cube,” Old Testament context, and tabernacle connections
• 16:52–19:34 – Ephesians 2: God’s household and “dwelling” in believers
• 22:01–27:36 – Holy Spirit’s role: convicting the world, exposing guilt, righteousness, and judgment
• 30:38–35:11 – The Holy Spirit, Acts, and the legacy of Pentecost
• 41:13–46:29 – Paul’s conversion, Acts as a model, the function of “the Way”
• 53:16–55:26 – Temple theology, indwelling of the Spirit, and body as God’s temple
• 57:48–58:44 – The Holy Spirit’s role as loving exposer, closing thoughts

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Tone and Language

• The episode balances down-home family storytelling with earnest biblical discourse.
• The Robertsons maintain a light, conversational, sometimes humorous tone, even as they tackle complex theological themes.
• Quotes and exchanges reflect their Southern charm and practical approach to faith.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

• This episode is a blend of relatable family chaos and a meaty Bible study on God’s presence, the coming of the Holy Spirit, and what it means to be God’s house today.
• The main insight: Heaven is not only a future hope but a present reality in spirit-filled believers, and the church (the people, not a building) becomes the dwelling place of God.
• If you’re interested in biblical interpretation, how the early church “became the body,” or just want to hear a family’s faith lived out in real life, this is an episode not to miss.

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“If we’ve left you confused, come back next time and you’ll be more confused. No, we’ll keep going.” (Al, 58:44)

Transcript

[Al]

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[Zach]

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[Jace]

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[Zach]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Al]

Welcome back to Unashamed. So I don't know what's going on at Yalls house these days, but. So my daughter Anna, who's my eldest, she'll turn 40 this year. That's hard to believe that Zach. I almost have a 40 year old child.

[Zach]

Wow.

[Al]

And whose daughter now is married as well. So she could be a grandma. You know we could get that news at any time. But so she's, she has been taking care of mom and doing great and mom's missing at the big house. We call it kind of our mini compound and the bigger compound, which I'll.

[Zach]

Say I think your daughter has a special gift.

[Al]

She does.

[Jace]

Oh no doubt.

[Zach]

Taking care of people.

[Al]

She does. And. And you know, she's the oldest grandchild in the family so it's kind of natural anyway because she's been around the longest with mom especially and so they're super tight and it's just. She's great. She does. She just does little things. Don't. I mean Jason's talked about for. She'll go wait in line and get Jason King cake. She's just got this servant and I.

[Zach]

Will, I will say this on record. I spent 30 years, well depending on the child labor laws working at Duck.

[Al]

Commander because she started as a teenager but of.

[Zach]

And at one time I was in charge.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Which is. I've had to remind Willie of that a few times. I'm like, yeah, I get it. But of all the people I work with over those years, I would say she was the number one worker in attitude and actual production.

[Al]

Yep.

[Zach]

Although she might have said 12 words.

[Al]

She's quiet.

[Zach]

10 years.

[Al]

She's quiet. The Robertson is strong in that one for sure. But anyway, so she's like the. She's like the nerve center. She's the. She runs everything in our compound because Lisa and I are here, we're there, we're back and forth. So she runs everything. All of mom's appointments. She kind of keeps us lined out too. Well, she. She needed a break. So she's now in Gulf Shores at my house down there, which is my place to go to, take a break. She and Jay are down there. And so Lisa and I are taking care of Mom. But not just Mom. Ain't Ann's in for a visit? Mom's older sister. So my house is like. I mean, I never realized that two older women. It's almost like we've reverted back. Like I'm taking care of children again just the way they are. And so it's been very interesting. And I came through, of course, you know, I've been losing weight and all this. I came through my. Just my shorts without a shirt on. And the reaction I got makes me think I might could do underwear modeling at the old folks home.

[Zach]

Let me just go ahead and solve that dilemma for you.

[Al]

No.

[Zach]

Just say no, Al. Yeah, so, I mean, it was embarrassing.

[Al]

Your aunt and your mom keep going on and on, you know, but.

[Zach]

Yeah, let me tell you a story because I haven't told you this. This happened a week ago.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I. I had a little man and he wanted to go check on Memo.

[Al]

K. And that kid is some kind of cute, I have to say. Yeah.

[Zach]

And so I went to your compound unannounced, Just going to drop in on mlk. And pulled up, there were vehicles around. You know, I just opened the door. Well, there was a sound. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. And I was like, hello? No one was there. And I thought, what. What is this sound? It was like an alarm.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And no one was there. So I'm thinking something has happened here. And I don't know if it's because we had Covid or whatever, but I saw this refrigerator with both doors open. And that's where the beeping was coming from. And there's no one in there.

[Al]

And the doors are just open.

[Zach]

Doors are open. Beep, beep. So I thought, oh no, I better put something over my face. Cause something has happened.

[Al]

Some food has an apocalyptic movie or something.

[Zach]

Well. Cause no one's here. It's the first time in My life that I've ever pulled up to Yalls compound and look, al, it was 3:30.

[Al]

There's a lot of people that live here.

[Zach]

You know, there's 3:30 in the afternoon. No one's here. So I go over to your, your house. That was, that was your daughter, the caretaker.

[Al]

Cottage is what?

[Zach]

There's no one there. And so I called Jay and I said, where you at? He said, I'm in Alabama. I said, well, I, I have a question. I said, I walked into your house and the alarm to your refrigerator is going off because both doors are open and there's no one there. So is it some kind of pandemic? Is it mold? I, I, I didn't know. And he said, well, did you close the refrigerator doors? And I said no, I didn't want to touch them.

[Al]

And he said, well, will you go.

[Zach]

Back and close them doors? I never heard an explanation.

[Al]

I never heard this story.

[Zach]

I just shared that with you, Al. I thought, boy, this place is.

[Al]

Somebody ran out of there with their hair on fire heading someplace and didn't even close the fridge.

[Zach]

Everybody left, left the doors open. It's beeping.

[Al]

And that was what's up. That's a great example of how my little compound, which used to be such a conclave, has turned into just chaos.

[Zach]

So I understand. When you said. Because I thought, boy, these people are under some stress. Forget the refrigerated. Good.

[Al]

What did you say? Zach, Is that, Can you.

[Jace]

That's got kids written all over it.

[Al]

Exactly.

[Jace]

Oh, it's like, yeah, they can, they don't care about electricity or spoiled milk or. They don't care.

[Al]

Well, it's just like I said, I'm in this weird zone because, like, I'm 60 years old. But like with. Since I have an elderly mom and now aunt. But then I've got like grandkids married, and so just, it's just this constant. I got teenagers, I got people coming and going, and it's just, it's chaos all the time. So it's hard to like, study. I mean, I texted Jays last night. I said, jays, I'm having trouble studying our text, you know, for our thing, because I can't go anywhere. I have no, no sanctuary. I have no quiet place.

[Zach]

Ditto. We, we've had a, we've had a long week. But we're here. We're here. This is difficult. This, this John 14 through 16 is difficult. I can't. Every time I study this, I keep thinking big picture.

[Al]

Yep.

[Zach]

About all this. And I've kind Of I think, figured out why this is difficult because we introduced John 14 and we've kind of been hanging out there and we kind.

[Al]

Of touched on it just a tad when Missy was on days. But we, yeah, we hadn't really dove into it, but we touched that this is like Jesus first deep dive into the concept of the Holy Spirit, really.

[Zach]

Of the Holy Spirit coming. And now, you know, I've been out and about in the city, which is where I guess I don't do message boards. The message boards is in my world, is in a grocery store. Ow. Somebody comes up and they're like.

[Al]

Or a guest on the. Like, we have a guest in studio. That's our message.

[Zach]

Which made my day because she was the first person that said. And she's from Missouri and a friend of one of my wife's best friends. And so. And listens to the podcast. But. And my wife's friend claims to be our number one listener.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Which. Look, I'll. She's made a case because she asked me a lot of questions. Like, I'll come into the assembly, she meets at where I'll preaches. And boy, she just, I can tell when she's got that look and that walk. And she's like, now. And she'll bring up a passage and it's like, I, I, I, I, I'm not sure. I can't, I can't, I can't get it. And I was like, send me a text. I do better. I, I don't do well.

[Al]

You know, we know how you work.

[Zach]

As, as we're entering the assembly on getting in a deep theological dive. But anyway, what I think part of the problem here is, and I spent most of my time studying for this, it's like this, this translation from Greek to English causes some problems.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And I just want to say this, y' all jump in here and help me through this. But what I recommend is. Because the first thing we did is my point. In John 14:1 through 3, everyone uses this as funerals.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

At funerals.

[Al]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach]

And they're like, okay, this is talking about when you die. There's a house, evidently up there. Even though God is not bound by space and time. I'm already arguing this principle. You know, we're going to go that house and there's some rooms up there, and you're going to get a real nice room, and we're going to live there. It's almost like, like we're booking a trip.

[Al]

But when you even. Smith, Bill Smith, who was kind of Our mentor in the Bible, as he got in his later years, he had created a picture Jace of this. Some sort of.

[Zach]

Don't even get the details of it because I've tried to get the.

[Al]

I know it looked like a Borg cube from Star Trek that was attached to the planet and we were all going to have our own.

[Jace]

But he got that from Revelation, right?

[Al]

Any kind.

[Jace]

Yeah, but. But it's actually an interesting point.

[Zach]

Did you say Revelation?

[Jace]

Yeah, the book of Revelation.

[Zach]

Oh, I thought you had an S on it.

[Al]

No, he didn't. He was fixing to get at.

[Jace]

Yeah, not Revelations, Revelation.

[Al]

And I just kind of like thought, well, he's getting along in years. He's trying to figure out what his next landing spot's going to be.

[Zach]

And we love Bill Smith. He brought our dad to the Lord.

[Al]

And he taught me most everything I.

[Zach]

Knew and was not scared to think outside the Bible. But I thought when I heard him give this spiel one night, I was there too, Al. I thought, I think he was studying his Bible late at night.

[Al]

I thought he was watching Star Trek.

[Zach]

No.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

While a sci fi movie was on. Because I just thought, this is the craziest thing I've ever heard.

[Al]

He had an image of it that he had come up with on his computer. And if you're a Star Trek person, you know what I'm talking about. It's like this big cube was attached to the earth and I was like.

[Jace]

Over a billion children in the world have never heard about Jesus. And our friends at Tomorrow Clubs are working to change that. You know, it feels overwhelming.

[Al]

Well, it does. And it's a reminder that, you know, our job is never done. And it starts with the youngest. I mean, Jesus said that over and over and over again. So I love what Tomorrow Clubs is doing.

[Jace]

Yeah, we're optimistic because we believe that God does have a plan. Jesus told his disciples, his followers to go out and make disciples of all nations. And that's exactly what the Tomorrow Clubs are doing. You know what happens when one child meets Jesus through a Tomorrow Clubs? Well, for Diana, a 17 year old in Moldova, it meant everything. She was left behind when her parents went to work abroad and she was searching for belongings, just a place to fit in. And she found that at a Tomorrow Clubs meeting. And she also met Jesus there for the first time. Now she's actually part of the same club, serving as the leader, fulfilling the great commission, helping to raise up the next generation to follow him. The reason why these stories are so important is because it's important to hear the actual effects of what's happening with these ministries across the globe. We love what Tomorrow Clubs are doing and and because of that, we're asking the unashamed audience to join this disciple making movement. And this is how you can do that by sponsoring 30 Tomorrow Club Kids for just 30 bucks a month. 30 disciples for $30 a month. It's easy to get started. Just visit tomorrowclubs.org unashamed or you can text 3,0KIDS to 44321. Let's help this great ministry reach more kids in some of the world's most forsaken places. Visit tomorrowclubs.org unashamed or simply text 30KIDS. That's 3Zero Kids to 44321 today to become a Tomorrow Club's ministry partner. Well, it comes out of Revelation 20. I'll read it to you. 2116 the laid out where it was.

[Al]

I'm impressed.

[Jace]

Well, I've been studying it this week, so it's interesting because I'm preaching. Well, I was supposed to preach on.

[Al]

So you a Borg cube guy now?

[Jace]

Yeah, I am definitely. Well one because it's in the Bible. But I was actually linking it to Exodus 25. Whenever God gives Moses the command when God gives Moses the command to build the tabernacle and then when he gives it, he gives like the measurements of. I think it was the arc or the chest that held everything in it. And it was a 10 by 10 by 10. But it was like the dimensions were like equal square, all sides were equal. It was a square dimension. Later when the temple was built, this you see the measurements of 30 by 30. I believe I may be off on that. But. But the point is that each. So this container, for lack of a better word, it contained the presence of God. So this has everything to do with where we're at in John 14 had everything to do with the presence of God. And so at the end of the Bible, whenever John the Revelator has the vision of the new city, the way he lays that out is he said it was like a cube, it was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. And then he gives the measurements of it. But the point is that there is a continual expansion all the way to the second coming of Christ and the coming of the new Jerusalem, the heavenly city, that this cube is expanding. And so I think that's the picture there is that God's presence is coming at the end, the new city is coming at the end. And I think when you read this language about he goes to prepare a place for me that whatever that place is, wherever that place is, the one thing we know from the reading the end of the Bible is that place is actually coming to us. And so it will be the reconnection.

[Al]

Which was Smith's ultimate point. Right. Which we get it. The new heaven, the new earth is the language that's used. Peter used it as well, that concept. Because I had a couple of people text me about that, Zach. Because when we were talking about this, because again, Jase is right. It's always such at the forefront of mine that heaven, they don't make that connection that God makes with us. And so it's almost just like this place burns up, we leave it all behind and we're like ethereal spirits that float off into the never never.

[Zach]

Which we've done a few things to try to answer that by saying this word used in John 14. You know, it's only used twice in the Bible, this rooming with God. Yeah, but it's used once where we're rooming with him in his space. He's preparing a place for us.

[Al]

Right.

[Zach]

But then it's also used in 1423 where he comes to us in rooms with us via the Holy Spirit, that.

[Al]

We are that house then.

[Zach]

Well, and one thing we should have read, because I didn't notice this and I know I introduced a point and I have not gotten there.

[Al]

I was going to get you back.

[Zach]

There, but I do want to read. I found this helpful in Ephesians 2. We should have read this when you remember when he said he got into this about Jews and Gentiles and him destroying this barrier and bringing them under one.

[Al]

We've talked 14.

[Zach]

Yeah, well, it's actually like 11 through all the way to the end of the chapter. And he, like the second part of 15, he says his purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two. Well, the two are two descriptions of people that if you made them, one includes all people, Jew and Gentile. You're either a Jew or a Jew, you're one of the other in the Bible context.

[Al]

Right.

[Zach]

And in this. Now, here's what I wanted to get to verse 16. And following in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. And so he gets to verse 19, or let me read verse 18. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. So he mentions Father, the Spirit, all people coming together, reconciling. So then he says 19. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people. Well, look at this phrase. And members of God's household.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So you're like this, this sounds familiar. So if you just ask yourself, well, when did this happen?

[Al]

It's already happened.

[Zach]

Well, right now, here, you don't have any problem. You're not reading this at a funeral is my point. But keep reading. So it's built on the foundation of the apostles. But then here's Christ mentioned. Well, just in the last three verses.

[Al]

All three tenets of the Godhead.

[Zach]

Exactly. Which sounds a lot like 1423. And it really sounds like that from here on out. So now we have Christ Jesus, the cornerstone. Now, in Christ, which we learned also means you're in him and he's in you. The whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple to the Lord. Well, there's Jesus. And in Jesus you two are being built together. Now watch this. To become a dwelling, which is. That's what the word for house in the Greek is. It is a dwelling place in which God lives by his spirit. Well, where is that? Where is God living by his spirit? In us, in people.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And you say, well, which ones? All of them.

[Al]

If they'll anybody surrender to it.

[Zach]

Yeah, exactly. So it's like that can't mean that, but. But that's what it says.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So I'm saying when before? Because I am positive that based on a few of the conversations I had, they're like, well, you missed that in John 14, you know, 1:3. I said, well, did you read 23? And they're like, well, yeah, it means something.

[Al]

Yeah. What does it mean?

[Zach]

So I just thought I'd throw that in because you see, later. Now this is post the spirit pouring out, you know, the book. Now he's writing a letter. But it's the same concept. He's introducing that. So what I was going to say is that one part about the body. So just think about big picture here. Jesus is now in John 14, he has a body and he's talking and they're listening and he's promising them the spirit coming. Because he says, I promise I'm not going to leave you as orphans. That's 1418.

[Al]

And remember, Jason, I will come to you. Remember, this is Jesus who also we read that they watched the Holy Spirit of God descend on him. He said, like a dove. I don't even know what that looked like. But in other words, even himself received that, experienced it. So it's not like he didn't do it himself.

[Zach]

And it says on why is that? To fulfill all righteousness. Which, look, we're going to get to this because it's in chapter 16. But I think this would be a good place to make this analogy. It's kind of like the more you read, because 14, 15, and 16 is all about this fixing to happen.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Even in Luke 24, he's like, I'm gonna. I promise you, I'll make a promise. I will send my spirit. Well, then Luke, who also wrote Acts, he then has it's time for the promised Holy Spirit. Well, the promise was actually given in Luke 24 post resurrection. It's coming. So watch what he says in 16. Now, I realize. I realize this 16 is tough, which is why I want to go ahead and introduce it. So when it says in verse seven, I tell you the truth, it is for your good that I'm going away. So this is the same as 14. He says, same word. I'm going away. All right. So it's not like we've tried to have a narrative and then go to the Bible and prove it. 14, 15, and 16 is all about the Holy Spirit.

[Al]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach]

And him leaving.

[Al]

Yep.

[Zach]

Unless I go away. Well, here's. Here's this unusual word he's using for the Holy Spirit. It's mentioned only five times. The counselor or comforter will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you. Now, these next three verses pack a punch because he is going to sum up three areas. I'm talking about big picture areas that this Holy Spirit is going to be involved in. Because watch what it says. Verse 8. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt or the Greek. Here's another alternate. Or will expose the guilt of the world, which I think that's more accurate.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

In regard to sin.

[Jace]

So our back to school, and it has been chaos the last week. And she'll say, what are we doing for dinner tonight? I said, I don't know.

[Zach]

What do you want to do?

[Jace]

And I was so glad that we actually had some Home Chef. So it's great. If you're looking for convenience, I know you've enjoyed these meals as well, right?

[Al]

Absolutely. Everything comes in fresh. And so it's nice to be able to have some options. Home chef is a good one.

[Jace]

Oh, they got an amazing classic shrimp scampi recipe that we made that's one of our favorites. But they got a lot of great. They got a Greek trout. They got zesty pop, Blondo chicken chowder. They've got a ton of options for you. So here's what Home Chef does. It brings fresh ingredients and easy chef design recipes straight to your door to make dinner simpler, which is really important in those busy seasons of life like right now, going back to school, getting all the kids out the door. Users of leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality, convenience, value, taste and recipe ease. We can testify to that. From the classic kits with pre measured ingredients to 30 minute meals to oven ready trays to microwave options, Home Chef has you covered without the hassle. Home chef has over 30 options a week and serves a variety of dietary needs and helps your wallet too. You know I love that Home Chef customers save an average of $86 a month on groceries. When meal planning slips down the list, check out Home Chef's new five ingredient meals. For a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50 off and free shipping for your first box plus free dessert for life. So go to HomeChef.com Unashamed that's HomeChef.com UnashamEd for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. Homechef.com UnashamEd must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert.

[Zach]

And you say, what do you mean exposed? Because remember, Jesus is the light of the world. There's an exposure that's going to happen and righteousness and judgment. So here's the three issues. He's going to expose the guilt in regard to sin. He's going to expose righteousness and judgment. Now then he explains it in regard to sin because men do not believe in me. So how is your sin going to be exposed if you don't believe in Jesus? It's not going to end well for you.

[Al]

Yeah, because you're trying to do it on your own.

[Zach]

It's not going to work in regard to righteousness because I'm going to the Father, which is almost like a riddle. You're like, wait, what? But just think what happens when he goes to the Father. He pours out his spirit to me. That's why I wanted to come here. If you don't make that connection, the Bible is going to be really confusing. When you get to the Book of acts and Ephesians 1. It's going to be real confusing because Jesus had a body and I say had. He still had a body, but it's no longer bound by the realm of the flesh.

[Al]

It's glorified.

[Zach]

It got changed, but they were looking at him. But boy, it had bells and whistles.

[Jace]

But it was Flesh it was.

[Zach]

He said, look at me.

[Jace]

Does the ghost have flesh and blood?

[Zach]

Yeah, same word for flesh. Yeah. And. And by the way. Well, let me. Hang on. We're going down that rabbit hole.

[Al]

But I have a really rabbit hole.

[Zach]

I have a really good verse on that. But anyway, so in regard to righteousness, because I'm going to the Father so that the Holy Spirit's coming where you can see me no longer. Now, I know. Watch this. And in regard to judgment, and you think, what is he fixing to say? Oh, dear.

[Al]

Because that's big.

[Zach]

Because the prince of this world now stands condemned. You're like, well, what's he got to do with anything about him going to the Father? And so these are things we will discuss. But I know one thing that's important or he wouldn't have put it here.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And he actually brings that up three times. He brought it up in John 12, man, when he says, I'm lifted up. And now the prince of this world, I think it says, is now judged there.

[Al]

And that goes back all the way back to that he will strike your heel, you will crush his head moment. I mean, it really does tie everything together.

[Zach]

Well, it really does. Zach, were you going to say something?

[Jace]

Yeah, I think it's a little difficult to. To pick an either or. When Jesus says, I'm going to prepare a place, is he talking about just the future, you know, the heaven that will come to us? But he's also talking about. He is talking about that, I think, but he's also probably more contextually here talking about that he's going to make us home in humans, because that's the whole point. He's going to lead. He's talking about the post resurrection, the ascension, because the whole next three chapters are all about the coming of the Holy Spirit. Even in John 14, he says, we're going to come make our home in humans now. And it's interesting that I think 1423, if anyone loves me, keeps my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. So he's talking about he's going to the Father and then they're going to come and make their home in people who love the Father and the Son. And I think it's a correlation to Hebrews 9 kind of unpacks the argument a little bit more clearly. But it's the idea of heaven coming to us. He says that this is Hebrews 9:23. Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. Verse 24. For Christ has entered. This is all temple language here. But the temple was like the tabernacle, and the temple were copies. They weren't the real thing. For Christ himself has entered not into holy places made with hands. Now, think about what Paul said in Acts 17, that God doesn't live in temples built by man's hands. Think about what Stephen said at his stoning, that God doesn't live in temples built by the hands of men. This is what the Hebrew writer is addressing here. Christ hasn't entered into that kind of place, which are copies of the true things, but he entered into heaven itself. And this is the part now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

[Zach]

So what does that mean? So what does that mean for the viewer? Why would he enter heaven on our behalf?

[Jace]

Because I think it's. The picture here is that heaven is going to now enter, is going to come into us. And I think that's the whole point of the coming of the Holy Spirit. And when you mentioned the part about the one that really kind of stands out the most to me, those three things that you said in John 16 of what the Holy Spirit's going to do, that middle one, that middle one kind of tells a story because he says, I'm going to convict the world in righteousness because I go to the Father and you can no longer see me. Think, what in the world does that mean?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Al]

And you can. And you can see it in people. Jace, it just hit me. You asked a question 50 years ago. You asked the right question. Do you remember it? You were six years old.

[Zach]

You're going back to a place.

[Al]

That's how good my memory is.

[Jace]

50 years ago.

[Al]

50 years ago, when. When dad was baptized, you. According to Mom, Because I don't remember you saying this, but she says you asked the question, does this mean the devil's going to leave our daddy? Oh, that's the famous question you asked. But it was the right question, when you think about it. Because it wasn't like he was possessed by the evil one, even though from our perspective it would appear that way. But it was the lack of the Holy Spirit living in him. You see what I mean?

[Jace]

How would you. Let me ask you this. How would you connect?

[Al]

You asked that. So I don't know.

[Zach]

I remember Kay telling me this story. I thought I was eight. Kay told that story, but somewhere it was 1975.

[Jace]

Well, you look at the cause. If you look at the Ministry of Jesus and you saw what he did over and over and over again was that when he would have a confrontation with the devil, particularly when the devil was inside of somebody, when someone was under demonic control or possession, when Jesus himself was with them and he. And he told those demons to leave, what do they do? Every single time they left, the demons always obeyed Jesus. So I was thinking about the connection. What is the connection then between righteousness and Jesus presence being with us? Like, what is the connection to that? Because his point is in John 16 is like, the spirit is coming and he's going to convict the world about righteousness. Because I go to the Father and you can no longer see me or something. I'll paraphrase that. But like, I'm leaving and you guys, it's going to be more. I think what this means is when Christ is sitting right next to you physically. Like, if Christ was right next to me in this seat, then I have a lot more power to be able to resist the schemes of the devil because I'm literally sitting with the Son of God. But he's like, but I'm actually leaving. And so what are you going? So the only way that you can get more power than that. And even in Jesus incarnate state, he could only be in one place at one time. Right?

[Zach]

I mean, he could be where I was headed. That's why I brought up the one body. Because look, okay, I never finished this thought. And then Zach can finish this thought. His body left in Acts 1. What happened next?

[Al]

They waited in Jerusalem and the Holy Spirit showed up. And the Holy Spirit showed up now.

[Zach]

And then how were we depicted? And I say, we, the people who surrendered to Jesus were baptized, you know, after the first sermon. And it said, you will receive the Holy Spirit. Well, how were those people depicted from that point on, Joanne?

[Jace]

The people who received the Spirit?

[Zach]

Well, yeah, but I meant, like, what were they called? Yeah, disciples, the church, the way. Now think about that. If you look that up, where'd they get that from? In John 14, he says, I am the way. How are we going to go? And he says, I'm the way. If you look at that, you're right.

[Al]

The word way is a descriptive term for direction.

[Zach]

Yeah, but another thing that would come out of that in all the letters to the churches is they were called the body. I just read 1 Ephesians 1. He made 1 body.

[Al]

Yep. The body of Christ. Yeah.

[Zach]

So what's crazy, a bride is another one. People just wrap your head around this because everybody's going around There. Oh, if God would just speak to me, oh, then I'd follow him or if he would show me a sign or you know, all these people, you know, drop down the Bible, by the.

[Al]

Way they were saying that in and.

[Zach]

Turn to a verse and like what? Tell me God, you know, what, what can I do? And it's these people looking for proof. You know, I brought up the chicken just for humorous purposes to say, hey, maybe let's do, maybe God's creating these things here.

[Al]

Was it the red rooster or the red.

[Zach]

Yeah, I was trying to give some proofs that there is a God. But really in actuality, spirit indwelled humans that have surrendered to Jesus, they are the proof that Jesus was raised from the dead. Just think about that.

[Al]

Yep.

[Zach]

That is, they are now the body of the risen Christ. Yes.

[Al]

And to that point I brought up earlier, 50 years after you asked that question, 20ft from where you asked it, you and I both stood behind the body of our departed dad, you know, who's crossed over and made that comment. I mean we looked at a 50 years of a life and we're like, now that guy proved that the Holy Spirit is in people.

[Zach]

Don't you find it strange that a six year old who had never been to church has equate, has become come aware of the devil?

[Al]

Exactly. How would you even know?

[Zach]

Why would you take that?

[Al]

Because his life exactly showed that you.

[Zach]

Take the opposite it.

[Jace]

So when's the last time you bragged about your wireless company, Al?

[Al]

It's been a minute, Zach.

[Jace]

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[Zach]

To get it done.

[Jace]

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[Zach]

So, Zach, I know I interrupted. You want to finish your thought? Because I have to read this in Acts 26.

[Jace]

I don't know what my. I don't know what my thought was, but I will, I will say this. You asked the question, what did they do after the resurrection of Jesus, his disciples? One thing. I mean, if you go to Acts 1, one thing that we learned from Acts 1 is there was 120 people. They were in the upper room, and Jesus appeared to them and basically tells them, well, they asked the question, is now the time when you're going to restore the kingdom to Israel? And Jesus is like, well, that's not really for you to know. He said, what I can tell you is this, though you will receive power when. When you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you. And then you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth. So these guys are stuck up in this upper room. Yeah. They witnessed the resurrection of Christ and they're like, man, this is something's amazing. We just figured, I mean, he beat death, like, what's going on here? But at this moment, it hadn't really. That hadn't popped yet. There are 120 people in the upper room.

[Al]

And you would have thought, Zach, that would have been at least 500, because Paul said he appeared to over 500 in the 40 days. But even out of the 500 that saw him, only 120 gathered. That shows how hard it was to Peter.

[Jace]

120 showed up and then Acts 1:15. I love this. In those days, Peter stood up among the believers, a group numbering about 120. And he said, brothers and sisters, the scripture had to be fulfilled. This had to happen. All the scriptures we've been reading, all the Old Testament, everything we know, had to be fulfilled. In which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David, concerning Judas, who served as a guide for those who arrested Jesus. He was one of our own number and shared the ministry. And then he kind of goes through this whole story of what happened to Jesus. And then all of a sudden, Acts 2 comes. And when Acts 2 comes, the Holy Spirit does come, as Jesus prophesied and said that would happen. He does come in power. They speak in Tongues. They're utterly amazed. And then Peter proclaims the gospel, that the Messiah that Israel had been waiting on came and they killed him. But God raised him on the third day. And then you have the call to repentance. When they said, what shall we do? He said, repent, every last one of you. Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins. And then about 3,000 people were added to the church that day. And then from there, the thing really kind of exploded, you know, but they were stuck in that room. There were 120 people. Now has morphed into. I mean, we're three guys on a podcast. I'm in North Carolina. You guys are in Louisiana. And we are descendants of the 120 that were in that room. You say, what happened? The Holy Spirit came.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah. All right, so I want to read this. This is Acts 22. I was going to read Acts 26, but then I just want to tie this back to John. So I want to read a little bit of 22, because. So you have actual Paul's actual conversion in Acts 9, but in Acts 22.

[Al]

Because he retells it several times in.

[Zach]

The book of Acts, he retells it. And so in Acts 22, I just want to read this, he says, and just notice how this connects to John 14. 2. Paul said, 22. 2. I am a Jew. He tells where he's born, brought up in this city. He had training under Gamaliel. Yep, Gamaliel. I was thoroughly trained in the law of our fathers, and I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today. I persecuted the followers of this way. And that is used several times to depict the followers of Jesus to their death, arresting both men and women, throwing them into prison. So then he shares his conversion verse. Verse 6. About noon as I came near Damascus. I like this language. Suddenly, a bright light from heaven, which is two things. We just got through talking about things from heaven. And Jesus says, the light of the world, it exposes what you're doing. So he had the light come to him. I fell to the ground and heard a voice. Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? Who are you, Lord? Look, notice the first two words. I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you're persecuting. So he was persecuting the way he hears a voice. It's Jesus. And the first two words out of Jesus mouth, I am. Yeah, you read in John 14, he's like, what does he say? I'm going to go and Prepare a place for you. I will come back and take you to be with me. That you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I'm going. But now watch this when you read it in Acts 26, because he said, you know the place where I'm going. So now another situation.

[Al]

King Agrippa, he's speaking to a totally different audience.

[Zach]

Totally different audience. Here he goes again.

[Al]

Gentile, by the way, verse 14.

[Zach]

We all fell to the ground. And I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic, in Hebrew. He's given you the interpretation of the language that Jesus was speaking from heaven. I think is funny. Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? Now, this time he adds this. It's hard for you to kick against the goads. There's a whole sermon in there. Because what are goads? Instruments used to keep sheep on the right path, which what also did. John 10. I am the shepherd. Here we go. Then I asked, who are you, Lord? So I am Jesus. Same thing there. Now I want to read this. The Lord replied, now get up, stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant. And as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you, I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them. And this is the point I wanted to get to. To open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light. Which has been more than a theme in John. It's DNA of Jesus.

[Al]

It's everywhere.

[Zach]

And from the power of Satan to God. There's another one we just got through saying. He keeps bringing up, you know, what judgment is. The prince of this world stands condemned so that they may receive forgiveness of sins. And look at those next three words. And a place among those who are sanctified, set apart by faith in me. Well, is it an actual place? You see my point? Are you getting hung up on? Or is it the people and the beings and the realms that you're now representing? Representing, which is where I was going with this. This is. I think the reason John 14 has been so misunderstood is because when you really look at what Jesus is doing and what he says, these words that we're reading have different meanings. Like when you say the world, you think you have a definition of that. But if you look up every time in John, where world is used, it gets confusing. I mean, real confusing, because it means different things. For God so loved the world that he sent his son. Well, we got that. He loves the World. Well, judgment means that the prince of this world stands condemned. Well, he's not talking about Jesus, you know what I mean? That's talking about the evil one.

[Al]

And then first John 2, he makes the distinction of the difference in the world. Don't be like the world, you know.

[Zach]

Exactly. How about 1 John 4? Friendship with the world is hatred towards God. But then you see, I have overcome the world. And here's my point. Like you'll read the word flesh because people, they take these words that are used, but they're translated differently and they make all these conclusions and I'm telling you, they get off, they get way off in what this is saying, like house. And because sometimes flesh is interpreted world.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And I'll give you an example. Do you know in John 17:2 now this is the prayer of Jesus. Listen to this. It says, I'll read verse one. It says, father, the time has come. Glorify your son and glorify that your son may glorify you, for you granted him authority over all people. Well, you're just thinking, well, he has authority over all people. But the actual word there is flesh for all flesh.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jace]

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[Zach]

That means I own shares of Shopify in my portfolio and have for years.

[Al]

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[Jace]

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[Zach]

That he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. And you say, well, what's the difference in people and flesh? Because some people, they'll read like John 3, 3 and 5, where it says flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit. So they're like, well, all flesh is bad. You know, that's the problem.

[Al]

This became a whole doctrine out of that.

[Zach]

Well, exactly. And so then you. But you find verses like Galatians 2:20 that says in Paul writing. That's why I wanted to bring him up. I have been crucified with Christ, I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. Well, how does that happen?

[Al]

Holy Spirit.

[Zach]

It has to be the Holy Spirit. John 14. Now watch this. The life I live in now they translated it body in the niv. You know what that word is? Same one. The life I live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself up for me. I do not set aside the grace of God because look, here's this word righteousness. For if righteousness, because he went back to the Father, now righteousness has been exposed through spirit filled people.

[Al]

Correct.

[Zach]

So my only point is when you see words like world and flesh and judgment, I think people tend to take that and make doctrines out of it without really looking at the different words that are used there in the context. And so I'll give you another one. So about judgment in John chapter three, and this is all going to make sense as we read, because the whole point I want to give is what Jesus did is his world that he represented, which is from the Father. That's why he kept saying, I'm from the Father. I'm not doing this by myself. I'm representing the God world here in this world. It was a clash. It was worlds colliding. Well, guess what? That hasn't stopped.

[Al]

Right?

[Zach]

The change is when he was ascended as Lord of Lord and King of Kings and Lord of Heaven and earth, he then gave his Spirit. And we participate in that clash of worlds. Because think about what Jesus took on. You could also say it another way. It's God against the gods. Because in this world there are different gods that have surfaced because people do not surrender to Jesus. Well, all of this continues in the whole book of Acts. Look, it's one big clash even. That's why I read, you know, Saul changed sides.

[Al]

Yeah, we just read it.

[Zach]

Right. He was clashing against the Way.

[Al]

Right.

[Zach]

And God said, hey, bam.

[Al]

He was the Way's greatest persecutor.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Al]

As a Jewish Pharisee. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, he was there. Remember, Stephen was stoned. I mean, he was the greatest one. And then became its greatest apologist. Because what happens when the main guy that's persecuting something then becomes part of it? It's the same thing we see today. When someone. When someone who is the biggest atheist you ever saw, but then realizes that it's all real, that has a huge ripple effect.

[Jace]

What do you think the most offensive thing that Stephen said? That. That because Paul was the one that gave the orders for Saul, was the one that gave the order to kill him. What do you think the most offensive thing that Peter or the. It had to be.

[Al]

Look, I see the. I see the Son of Man standing.

[Jace]

But if they think about their whole system, I mean, they. I mean, go back and read that. Read that sermon. It's really interesting. Acts 7, because he essentially retells the history of Israel in the sermon. So he goes back and really just gives like a Cliff Note version of their entire history. I think the thing that he said that was the most offensive of all the things that he said. And it's related to what you said, but I think it was that he said, God does not live in temples built by man's hand. Because that's the thing that Paul said. I mean, Paul brought that back when he went and did the Acts 17 Sermon on Mars Hill. He said the same exact thing that he had heard Stephen said. And it also happened to coincide with what Jesus said that made them so angry at Jesus. Whenever Jesus basically said, destroy this temple and I'll rebuild it in three days. We know, speaking of his body. But at the end, when they killed him, if you remember the accusation that they like the charge, one of the main charges that they brought against him was they said that Jesus said that he was going to destroy this temple. Well, that's not what he said. He said, you destroy this temple, I rebuild it in three days. They flipped it. So the accusation that got Jesus killed, one of their main points was that he Speaks against the temple. The reason why Stephen was killed was because he speaks against the temple. So Paul picking up the mantle, Paul was one of those guys that were like, yeah, these guys are speaking against the temple. We got to kill them. But then that. But if you look at Paul's message, it was all about describing the new temple. And that's the body in which the Holy Spirit indwells. Which is why Paul also is the one when he talked about fleeing from sexual immorality. What's his justification for that? He says all sins a man commits are outside his body. But he who sins sexually sins against his own body. And why is that a problem? What Paul says? Because your body is a temple of the spirit. And he also says something similar in Galatians. But the point is, I think that that all goes back to John 14 through John 17. How in the world can my body house God? Well, that's the whole point. That's what Jesus is telling us right here, how it's going to happen. Your body will house God.

[Zach]

And there's one big picture thread I wanted to read about the judgment. It's like, you know the part in John 3:16, you know, where he's like, God so loved the world, he gave his one and only Son. Whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. So then it says, for God did not send his Son into the world. Now the NIV says to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. But if you look up this word, it's the same word for judge every other place. Now the translators in some of them put will condemn. Well, there's a big difference in condemn and judge. If you make a judgment and you look at the Greek definition and all, it's like he exposed the verdict. Condemning is the verdict been made in Europe. There's a difference is all I'm saying. So when you look up the word for condemned, the only time I could see the Greek word for condemned in John was the time where he, the woman was caught in adultery. And he said, no one has condemned you, neither do I condemn you. Now that word is different from this word in the Greek. My only point is I did this. It takes hours. So when you have a weekend, when you see a word like that, say condemn and you look it up, all you have to do is look up John 3:17, where that little Greek word for condemned. Click on it and it'll show you everywhere it's used. You'll be surprised. And you're like, oh, it's not the one in John 8? Nope. So I said all that because I know we're out of time to get to verse 19. This is why this is so confusing. It says, this is the verdict. Well, you would think verdict must be a different word. No, it's judgment. Yeah, this is the judgment. So the same judgment that he said, the prince of this world has been condemned, which means judged, exposed. Why does he need to be exposed? Because he's a liar.

[Al]

Exactly. From the beginning.

[Zach]

Yeah, I'm saying it gives a different connotation because this is the judgment. Verse 19. Light has come into the world, but men love darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. What does all this talk about exposure? The Holy Spirit is just as much of a revealer of righteousness and sin as he is a comforter and a counselor. And judgment is involved, so. But the bottom line is love. For God to love the world is the driving force for the exposure. Because once you're exposed, guess what? Like S.A. you say, oh, I think I got this wrong.

[Al]

Yeah, I think I missed it. All right, we're out of time. We'll pick this up. So if we've left you confused, come back next time and you'll be more confused. No, we'll. We'll keep going.

[Zach]

It is confusing.

[Al]

It is confusing. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.