Ep 1159 | John Luke Robertson & Christian Huff Discover the Secret Behind Abraham’s Faith

Summary

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Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Ep 1159 | John Luke Robertson & Christian Huff Discover the Secret Behind Abraham’s Faith
September 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, the Robertsons—joined by John Luke Robertson and Christian Huff—explore the story of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar as presented in Genesis, with a focus on the “secret” behind Abraham’s faith. This conversation is woven together with personal family stories, deep theological discussion, and occasional humor, all set against the backdrop of their recent collaboration with Hillsdale College’s free online Genesis course. The episode emphasizes faith, trust in God’s promises, and the complexity of biblical characters, while also reflecting on how these ancient stories connect to modern Christian living.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Family, Filming, and Faith (00:01–07:19)

• Robertson Family Reunited: The hosts open with anecdotes about their personal journeys to the studio, highlighting the challenges and joys of working together on the Duck Dynasty revival series.

  • “It’s been really fun…we get up and we just laugh and do the stuff we kind of normally do.” — Christian, 03:32

• Revival Show Dynamics: John Luke considers his growth from the original show to the new series, noting, with humility and humor, how he continues to “play himself,” quirks and all.

  • “I was like, no, I am kind of an idiot…I can’t reimagine.” — John Luke, 05:13

• Family Time as a Blessing: Al and the group reminisce about the original show and reflect on how special it is that their children can participate and later watch themselves grow up on TV.

  • “When I watch you guys doing it now…what a cool thing to get to see that passed on.” — Al, 06:18

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2. Engaging with Hillsdale’s Genesis Course (07:20–10:23)

• Introduction to Hillsdale: The family expresses their enthusiasm for studying Genesis together via Hillsdale’s free online course, emphasizing its ease of access and broad impact.

  • “We’re in Genesis, and I knew about Hillsdale...but this is the first time I’ve taken one of their courses, and I’ve really enjoyed it.” — Zach, 08:13

• Lifelong Learning and Foundational Values: The Robertsons highlight the course’s focus on character, freedom, and education rooted in Christian thought while resisting political or ideological coercion.

  • “I love their mantra, what they’re trying to do. They recognize…it’s about freedom.” — Al, 09:33

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3. The Story of Abraham: Faith and Promise (10:24–19:14)

• Abraham’s Calling: The discussion moves to Genesis 12, emphasizing Abraham’s faith in setting out for an unknown land on nothing but God’s word.

  • “I want you to go to a place. I’m not going to tell you where it is until you get there.” — Al, 10:36

• Scriptural Patterns—Fruitfulness and Death: Zach identifies the repeated “cultural mandate” to “be fruitful and multiply,” connecting Noah, Abraham, and broader biblical themes of life versus death.

  • “You have God’s pathway, which is always life and life abundantly…then the other one is a death work.” — Zach, 13:04

• Rebellion, Dispersion, and the Tower of Babel: Al notes the continued human rebellion shown in Babel, marking a transition point before Abraham’s call and the road toward Messiah.

  • “We want to be our own gods…And so then we go through several generations before…this miraculous call.” — Al, 14:14

• Eastern vs. Western Bible Reading: Christian and Zach discuss how understanding Genesis through an Eastern rather than Western lens brings out the deeper literary and numeric structures of the text.

  • “Numbers and numerical things are so much more important…there’s all kind of hidden things in that.” — Christian, 15:05

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4. Abraham, Sarah, Hagar: Doubt, Schemes, and God’s Covenant (17:09–33:22)

• God’s Promise Despite Barrenness: Abraham, childless, is reminded that the promise is for a son from his own body—despite time passing and his wife’s barrenness.

  • “The promise is made…he’s just reminding God, you made the promise, but I still don’t have any kids.” — Al, 17:13

• Human Schemes vs. Divine Plans: Sarah’s impatience leads to the Hagar/Ishmael episode, which the hosts see as a classic example of humans trying to “improve upon” God’s plans.

  • “It just…creates this whole quagmire…when you’re outside [God’s plan]…we create all these issues.” — Al, 22:08

• Parallels with Adam and Eve: Christian draws attention to Sarah’s initiative, paralleling Eve’s in the Garden, as echoes of human impulse to “take matters into our own hands.”

  • “Sarah taking it upon herself…I’ve never thought about that.” — Christian, 23:16

• Active Passivity—Trust as Yielded Partnership: Zach introduces the concept from Francis Schaeffer: we are called to be “actively passive,” yielding ourselves, like Mary, to God’s purposes rather than taking charge.

  • “We’re to be actively passive.…to have the faith of Abraham is that we’re actively passive.” — Zach, 31:19

• Covenant Rituals and God’s Commitment: The blood covenant between God and Abram (Genesis 15) is highlighted, emphasizing that God alone passes through the pieces—foreshadowing Christ’s sacrificial role.

  • “God puts Abram to sleep and God alone walks through the covenant…foreshadowing the cross of Calvary.” — Zach, 31:16

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5. Skepticism, Laughter, and Redemption (35:14–42:03)

• Laughter as Skepticism and Joy: The group debates whether Sarah’s laughter was skepticism or joy, and agree the text has room for both—and that both forms of laughter require a response of faith.

  • “I’ve always heard it as skepticism…more like a scoff than…a trusting, like joyful laughter.” — John Luke, 35:49
  • “In the end, both of those [skeptical or joyful laughter] are going to require her participation…submission is the participation.” — Zach, 37:05

• The Aftermath of Human Plans: The hosts reflect humorously on Sarah's dismay after her own plan backfires with Hagar.

  • “We don’t get four verses into it, and she’s mad about it…Of course you came up with this plan!” — Al, 28:20

• Mercy for Ishmael and Divine Perspective: The episode underscores God’s mercy even in human mistakes, highlighting how both Isaac and Ishmael are saved by God at points of despair and need.

  • “There was still mercy. And that he found her by the spring of water. Twice.” — Zach, 40:46

• Parallel to Jesus & 'Living Water': They link Hagar’s water encounter to themes in the Gospels (e.g., the woman at the well), noting how God meets people in their shame and thirst.

  • “Both in their shame and God meets them at a spring of water.” — Christian, 40:50

• Endurance in Suffering: The group recognizes that sometimes God's answer is to "go suffer some more," noting the prevalence of suffering in the biblical narrative and resisting the urge to escape it.

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6. Faith’s Choice & Legacy: Abraham Compared to Lot (42:03–45:35)

• Contrast with Lot’s Family: Against Abraham’s flawed-yet-faithful journey, Lot’s family becomes a picture of assimilation to culture and total loss—a cautionary tale for believers.

  • “Lot lost everybody except his two daughters…when you just totally say…we’re going to let culture decide…destruction is impossible.” — Al, 43:44

• The Seed of Israel: The importance of Abraham’s story as the origin of the Jewish people—and ultimately the line of Jesus—is highlighted.

  • “We’re at the very beginning of the birth of a nation, the birth of Israel.” — Zach, 44:28

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7. The Ongoing Journey: Learning and Wrestling with Faith (45:36–End)

• Looking Forward to Genesis 22: Teasing next week’s focus on the binding of Isaac, the hosts invite listeners to study this “rich” and foundational text.

  • “You really need to just read that chapter over and over again…” — Zach, 45:36

• Never Stop Learning: The importance of continual study, group learning, and multiple perspectives is emphasized.

  • “Never stop studying. We’re never too busy to learn more.” — Al, 47:11

• Accessibility & Encouragement: The group encourages listeners to join the free Hillsdale course, noting the value of quizzes, note-taking, and deep-dives for laypeople and scholars alike.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Abraham’s faith walk:
  “The reason that you read about him so much in the New Testament…is because his calling shows you his capacity…he was willing to take some of those steps out there.” — Al, 10:43

• On human planning vs. God’s timing:
  “It is all the grace of God. Yes, yes, and yes. Mary didn’t do anything to put a baby in her womb…the child was conceived by the Holy Spirit. But she did yield her body to…the Spirit.” — Zach, 37:05

• On skepticism and joy:
  “We always tend to want to go either/or. And a lot of times it’s both/and—which I think in this case it was both.” — Al, 36:24

• On the limits of perspective:
  “We have a very limited perspective. So that’s the natural reason why it’s kind of stupid for us to be like Sarah…and think we’re going to somehow partner with God in the planning…” — Zach, 34:22

• On redemption and mercy for Ishmael and Isaac:
  “I hadn’t really made the link that really Ishmael’s salvation was so close to Isaac’s salvation.” — Al, 39:53

• On the richness of Genesis and the process of faith:
  “I think God has always shown us that it always starts with the decision to listen to God, and that’s before all the other stuff…Genesis is such a rich study.” — Al, 44:59

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:01–04:14: Reunion, Duck Dynasty revival, and family banter
• 07:20–10:23: Hillsdale course introduction and impact
• 10:24–15:27: Abraham’s call, early faith steps, and biblical patterns
• 17:09–19:14: Barrenness, God’s promise, and the idea of being “chosen”
• 20:47–23:16: Sarah’s plan with Hagar, impatience and human solutions
• 31:02–32:33: Covenant ritual, active passivity, and foreshadowing Jesus
• 35:14–36:46: Debate over the meaning of Sarah’s laughter
• 40:46–42:03: Hagar’s encounter at the water and God’s mercy
• 42:03–44:05: Contrast between Abraham’s lineage and Lot’s
• 45:36–47:11: The importance of ongoing study and faith formation

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Conclusion

This episode blends serious biblical study with the trademark humor and authenticity of the Robertson family. Through exploring Abraham’s journey, listeners are challenged to examine their own faith, patience, and willingness to “actively yield” to God, even when the promise seems delayed or impossible.

Listeners are encouraged to join the journey—both spiritually and academically—by studying Genesis with the Robertsons via Hillsdale’s free online course.

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Transcript

[A]

I am unashamed. What about you? Well, we're back in Genesis today. I'm in studio, which is kind of a big deal because I've traveled quite a way to get quite a ways.

[B]

To get weird because I'm so used to seeing you in a box on the monitor that when you're actually here, it throws me off because I keep looking at the monitor.

[A]

Well, yeah. This is an important thing we're doing here. If you're not. If you haven't heard yet, we have an ad free episode every single Friday, thanks to our partners at Hillsdale College. And we really want you guys to take these courses online at Hillsdale with us. All you have to do to join us for Unashamed Academy, powered by Hillsdale College, is sign up @unashamed for hillsdale.com. it's totally free. We're all taking the courses right now. We're in the Book of Genesis. How long are the classes? What you think? About 20?

[B]

I'd say they average 25 minutes or so. Yeah.

[C]

Or you can speed up the audio. You can.

[B]

And that's what somebody tell me. I don't know. You know, I listen to my daughter. Listen to my podcast.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In double time. And it totally freaks me out. I can't. It sounds like it's like the Chipmunks are doing.

[A]

So you start at 1.25, then you can work your way out.

[D]

I can't do this stuff that you don't want to go fast. Like, I'll do it and I'll stop and I'll rewind it and I'll write it down. I'll listen to it again. You got like, the more you listen to it, the more you get out of it.

[A]

Now they're all on. They're all on video. You can take them wherever or whenever you want if you want to follow along. This week, we're on lesson three, talking about Abraham, Sarah and Hagar. But I did get in late last night.

[B]

Well, which is why we're giving you a pass for having such a hard time getting us started today. Because Zach was supposed to be in at 9:30. And then all of a sudden we get a text. We're delayed. You know, I'll be there at midnight. But you didn't get until like 1:00am.

[A]

Oh, one I got. Then I'm like, what's after 1:00am which is after 2:00am My time, cuz.

[B]

And then I'm like, what's the deal with the rental car? Because trust me, I've done enough flying into Monroe. Once we get past like 9 o', clock, it's like rental car people are.

[A]

Nowhere to be found.

[D]

Once you get past 5:30, like 5:00pm they're like 5:30 is generous. 5:30, it's like 4.

[A]

I would know I was in a serious mind because they canceled my rental car. And apparently you can't get an Uber in Monroe. So then I called John Luke. Nobody answers, of course. Then I call Christian.

[B]

You know why? Because every time you call Christian or John Lee or me on the phone, him you know what comes up on the phone? Don't answer.

[A]

Actually, you know who I did call? I called Reeves and he answered.

[C]

And you called Reeves at 1 1am.

[A]

I called him about 11, right before I took off, which had been 10 yalls time. I said, look, I'm. I'm in a bind. And he said, I'll be there. So I. I'll. I landed.

[B]

So he not only looks like Jesus, he acts like Jesus.

[A]

I landed 11:45, which was not true. I ended up landing at 12:30 or after that because I don't know what happened up in the air. But so. But we made it. And I never.

[B]

You never even woke me up, which I appreciate that.

[A]

But I don't want to complain about being too busy because I know you guys are.

[B]

These guys are filming a show. So I wanted to ask you because I'm super excited about doing this project with you guys. And I wondered, because now we all were part of the original show, you know, and what that entailed. And I know how much work that is and how hard it is, but I also know it's also rewarding because you get to do with your family. So what's been your experiences on the revival?

[A]

Duck Dynasty? The revival?

[B]

Yeah. I'm curious.

[D]

It's been really fun. Everything we filmed has been hilarious.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And I mean, that is like, we get up and we just laugh and do the stuff we kind of normally do.

[C]

So, yeah, it's been a blast. It really is fun getting to spend that much time with your family doing fun things that, you know, you normally typically do. And you're getting to spend all the time with the kids and their interaction with Willie and Corey is really sweet. So I think it's been a blast. It's definitely interesting, you know, playing yourself in a show. It's funny. It's kind of a. You know, it's just an interesting dynamic of knowing you're being filmed and you're playing yourself, but different from when you.

[B]

Were playing Captain America and all the.

[C]

Marvel movies different than those movies, which were a big success, by the way.

[B]

We're very happy with how they went. Captain America, Wonder Woman, now playing the roles. What about you, Luke?

[D]

I came into this like, okay, this is going to be interesting.

[B]

Because you were part of both.

[D]

Because I was part of both. So the first time I was very much, like, typecasted because I was the like, like, unaware high school kid. Didn't know what was going on. And then you had, like, bumblebee tuna and the whole.

[B]

Which, by the way, is one of the most beloved episodes.

[D]

Oh, I know it. I can't.

[B]

John Luke high on novocaine.

[D]

Yeah, the wisdom teeth episode. And that's like, me. And that's what. Like, people know me. Like, that's the. That's the wisdom tooth guy. Like, that's who I am.

[A]

I'm like, got totally blitzed out of his mind. That's your. That's your.

[B]

He was channeling his inner confused. His inn a pet detective. I was.

[D]

It was full Ace Ventura. And this time I was like, that's not gonna be me. I'm gonna be the intellectual. I'm being smart. I'm be a clean cut. I'm gonna be like this version of John Luke. And then we started filming. I'm like, no, I am kind of an idiot.

[A]

You couldn't reimagine.

[D]

I can't read because that's who I am. I'm like, no, I'm gonna put socially aware.

[A]

You're a smart guy, though. I mean, you are the only nerd that bought the commentary.

[B]

And he has the course material, which.

[A]

I would buy the commentary. But, I mean, we move on this once we decided to do it with Hillsdale. And so you've got the Genesis commentary.

[D]

Yeah, well, it's because I was already like, as soon as we said this might be a thing, I went on and I bought the books. And I was saying, I'm going to take this regardless.

[B]

So, you guys. People ask me all the time. They're like, what do you miss about the original show and doing it and all that? Of course I miss the impact, which now it's fun to drive in here again and see folks all summer, like, coming by to do the tour and see the stuff and hopefully see you guys. And so that's been fun again, the impact. But what I missed the most was getting to spend all that time with my brothers and their families and what you guys are getting to do. And so even though we all live here together, everybody has separate things that they're engaged and involved in. And so the show sort of centralizes that. And mom was always really big on the idea that she had her family together. And so when you see those, in our case in the first show with the family dinner scene sitting around, that really. Those really were moments of coming together. And so when I watch you guys doing it now, Next Generation in the revival, I just think, man, what a cool thing to get to see that passed on, and that your kids will get to experience that. And one day they get to watch themselves on television when they were little guys running around. And that's huge. That's important.

[C]

Yeah. It's fun getting to be in the moment because, like I said, we don't know if it'll continue on for more seasons to come, but right now, we're just trying to be in the moment. I think we're happy with the way the shows have turned out, and we think it gets better as it continues to go. So just trying to live in the moment and spend as much time with the family as we can.

[D]

Yeah, it does.

[A]

Well, you know that this is important to us, though, this, these Hillsdale episodes, because to squeeze these in with our production schedules is pretty incredible. But I am excited about being able to do this. You said you would have taken this course regardless. And by the way, it's not too late to sign up. You can go to unashamedforhilstale.com sign up for free, and you can take these courses with us. We're in Genesis, and I knew about Hillsdale. I said this in the last episode. They've had 4 million people have taken these courses online, these free courses, and I get the Imprimis thing in the mail. I think you may get that as well. I remember listening to talk radio years ago when I was in college, and they would have all these promotions for Hillsdale because they don't take any federal funding. I remember hearing about it. I've always read the Imprimis, but this is the first time I've taken one of their courses, and I've really enjoyed it. I don't know about you guys.

[D]

Oh, yeah. I actually realized I had taken not the course, but parts of this course on YouTube, and I had watched those, like, years before even doing this. So, like, they have tons and tons of stuff. The one I listened to before wasn't on Genesis, and now that we're getting into it, they've got Genesis and C.S. lewis and history and literature and theology and all kinds of stuff.

[B]

Well, I thought that in the original first Lesson of this Genesis, the Larry Arne, who's the president university, did a really nice job of explaining what their charter is as a university. And it's interesting because you could probably say the same thing about every university in America. When they started, including the Ivy League schools, it was about moral character, it was about foundational, it was about freedom, it was about all these different things, and it sort of morphed into what it is today. And sometimes we don't even recognize what's happening on college campus. So I think it's been interesting that they've sort of held the line on what a college meant even when our nation started. And the idea that you build foundational things in young people, they can build on that and knowledge. And so I just, I love their, their mantra, what they're trying to do. I love the fact they recognize and like they say it's about freedom. So people can come in. They don't make you, you know, sign anything that I believe this or I believe that. The thing is, they're just offering it out there for you to take and decide.

[A]

Yeah, they're a liberal arts, private Christian school, but they don't require. But I think their whole model is that we want to educate, we want to educate our country. And They've got over 40 free online courses taught by the Hillsdale faculty. We're doing the Genesis one, but we'll do some more as well. They got like, I think C.S. lewis courses. They've got, I think I saw one story of David. They've got the Federalist Papers, which that'd be interesting to do. So we'll let you guys kind of speak into our next course, but want you to take it with us. That's a big part of it. We're going to do this every Friday. Unashamed Academy powered by Hillsdale. So with that, we are in, I think we left off Genesis. We were going to move into Genesis 12.

[B]

Yeah. Dr. Jackson picks it up in 15 because he kind of centers in on the relationship of Abraham, Sarah and Hagar in that story. But I encourage you guys to start in 12 because I've always thought it was very important to understand Abraham's in Abram in the early part of it, his beginning. Because the reason that you read about him so much in the New Testament and Paul talks about him a lot, Galatians and Romans, and of course the Hebrew writer talks about James talks about him. So almost every New Testament writer mentions Abraham's faith. And I think the reason why is because his calling shows you his capacity, you know, that basically it was like, I want you to go to a place. I'm not going to tell you where it is until you get there. And I just think about all the. You know, I don't even get in the car now to head someplace without figuring out where it is on the GPS or, you know, tell me where I'm going. And so the idea of the beginning steps of Abram and Sarah and then Lot, of course, and his family with him, I think it shows the capacity and it shows the character that's there. And so as you get into the story that we're going to get into today, it's important to know the basis of who this man is. And, you know, I mean, that's why he's the father of the faithful, because he was willing to take some of those steps out there. And some of these are really difficult things that God's asked him to do.

[A]

Well, yeah, sacrifices on sin.

[B]

Exactly. Which I thought was really powerful.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's a pivotal text in the scripture that we refer back to a lot. And even in the New Testament, it's referred to quite a bit, this whole story. Abraham's referred to quite a bit. He's the father of our faith. And then how he exercises that with Isaac. I was saying coming out of our last episode, we left really kind of with a story of hope, but we were kind of hitting on the fall of man. You had mentioned how bad things got in Genesis post fall. So Genesis 3, Adam and Eve, they get the curse, they're banished from the garden.

[B]

Then one of their sons murders another son in the next chapter, and it just continues.

[A]

And it gets so bad up until Noah's on the scene that the Lord's like, this place is so wicked. The Bible says, I think one translation, that he repented for making man. And so then he's going to like, okay, build this ark, and I'm just going to destroy everybody. Because this is. Except for eight of you guys, basically.

[B]

It was a reboot.

[A]

It's a reboot. What's interesting about it, though, we were talking about being fruitful and multiplying. When you made that awkward comment about his sister, her and being naked and unashamed.

[B]

I still feel awkward about it.

[A]

Yeah. That was gold, by the way. But the truth is that I was thinking about if you look at the two pathways in reality, you have God's pathway, which is always life and life abundantly. It's to be fruitful and multiply, have dominion over the earth, and then the other one is a death work. It always ends in a death work. And I think that's why the evil one always attacks the foundation of life itself. And so when you look at that command, what's called the cultural mandate in Genesis chapter one, to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth and fill the earth, that's the same exact command that God gave Noah and the other seven after he had flooded the earth and they came out of the ark. In Genesis chapter nine, you know what he says to him? Be fruitful and multiply and go fill the earth. And that's kind of the same thing that he says in Genesis 12 to Abraham. Like, basically, I'm going to give you a bunch of offspring. Be fruitful and multiply. And so then that's the backdrop at which we enter into the story.

[B]

But, you know, Zach, there's still this point of rebellion, because when you get to chapter 11, right before we're picking up the story, you see, still there was that idea, but we want to build our own tower. We want to do our own thing. We don't want to go out. We don't want to spread out. We don't want to do what God tells us to do. We want to be our own gods. And so you still see the prevalent mindset that's still there sort of permeating through that early humanity. And so then we go through several generations before we get to this miraculous call. And this is going to be now begin the process of bringing a messiah into the world. Because that's what Abraham is. He's that first step into this. First the patriarchs, then into Israel and then into the prophecies, and then ultimately to Jesus.

[A]

What did you say? He's made a point last podcast about the Eastern perspective or.

[B]

Yeah. Versus the Western.

[A]

Dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, there's so many Eastern things with, like, whether it's chiasms or kind of literary tools that, you know, because from the Eastern, like, numbers and numerical things are so much more important than to us, they're just numbers, but there's all kind of hidden, hidden, hidden things in that. And yet Dr. Jackson talks about. Yeah. Just the original language of the way that the things are written. And I just think he breaks that down really well.

[A]

Yeah. John Luke and I both got on like, a little bit of a Michael Heiser kick. What was the Unseen Realm.

[D]

The Unseen Realm.

[A]

You actually read that before me, I believe, because you'd read that years ago. And then somebody introduced me to his work recently. But he says the same Thing that we have to interpret, we're reading the Bible too much through a Western lens, which is interesting, because to understand the basis of Western civilization probably should return a little bit back to the Eastern perspective in which it was written. And so when you get the story that we're all participating in right now, before Abraham gets there, the world had gotten so bad again. And Heiser's point is the sons of God came into the women and created the Nephilim. And all that may have happened again in Genesis 11. So they're going to make a name for themselves. They're going to build a tower. And that tower, it's another version of a temple motif. Right. Connect heaven and earth through a tower. So you see that same thing happening again. And God says, no, that's not the way this is going to play out. And so he confuses their language and he scatters them. Which, by the way, he rectifies in Acts chapter two, when he brings the nations back together and they can hear each other in their own native tongue. Which is an interesting thought. But Babel was kind of like this. That was like the end of an era. And God said, I'm not going to allow this to happen. So that's why he creates nations in the first place. He creates nations and he despises, disperses them. And then he takes one of those nations, which would be Israel, Abram. Genesis 12. And he pulls them out, his portion for himself, and he makes the covenant with Abram. And the covenant was, I'm going to give you a lot of grandkids.

[B]

And this is a man who had no kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which was the starting point for Dr. Jackson because he said the promise is made. And then Abram just looks up one day and basically has a comment and says, man, I guess my servant is supposed to be my forward bearer of children, because I don't have any. In other words, he's just reminding God, you made the promise, but I still don't have any kids. And that becomes the jumping off place.

[C]

Have you all ever heard. I've heard one scholar talk about this, and it's an interesting thought that doesn't have any mention of it in Scripture, but the idea of if Abraham was the first person that God asked to partner with, or if God. It's just an interesting thought. If, like God had asked other people to partner and they had said no, then Abraham was just the first person.

[A]

That first one to say yes.

[C]

The first one to say yes. Yeah, it's just an interesting thought.

[B]

I never thought about It.

[D]

I've heard of that about Abraham's father, whose name. I guess we can look it up.

[B]

But was it er.

[D]

No, but they were in ER. This is Genesis 11:20 or 30. And Terah took his son Abram and Lot, son of Herod, and his grandson Sarah's daughter in law, wife of Abram. And they set out from Ur of the Chaldees towards the land of Canaan. And they came to Haran and settled there. And the days of Terah were 205. And then Terah died in Haran. Then the Lord said to Abraham, go forth from your land and your birthplace and your father's house. So Abram's birthplace was urged. Terah, Abraham's father took their family halfway to Canaan and then died. And then Abram went the rest of the way. So just a thought. Actually don't even know. This might just be my own thought, but I'm sure somebody else has thought of this before. Was Terah asked to go first, but then he stopped halfway and then God asked Abram go to a place I don't know. And then Abram picked it up.

[A]

Well, in Joshua it indicates that he had worshiped other gods, he and the family. And so Abram was called out of that. Which is interesting because when you get to Exodus, we should take Exodus too. That'd be a good one to take. In Exodus, God appears to Moses and basically says, hey, my name is Yahweh. You know, my name is I am. Nice to meet you, you know, kind of thing. And he says, I didn't. So you're the first person I've told my name to. He tells Moses that he said, I never told my name to Abram. I appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but I never told those guys my name. I just. I just appeared to them as God Almighty. So kind of the redemptive nature of what's going on here, like, like Abram. Abram's being called out by, by Almighty God, but he doesn't know his name yet. There's not like an identity attached to this personal identity attached as Yahweh yet. And I think that's interesting because you're getting the very seed of our entire faith. Right. It's just that this is a process that God's like he's doing something. But to your point, I don't know if terror. Like I don't know. Yeah, I mean, maybe he was called out, maybe he wasn't. But we do know that he worshiped foreign gods because Joshua 24 mentions that yeah. If you want kind of get in on this discussion, go to unashamedforhillsdale.com to sign up at no cost. And you can take these classes with us super easy. You'll love it. Trust me. We're in. We're in our third course on Abraham, Hagar and Sarah.

[B]

So we get to Genesis 15, and the word of the Lord comes to Abraham, Abram, this man will not be your heir because he's questioning, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir. And then they go and make this covenant. And so this covenant is made that this is the way it's going to be. And it's interesting because the passage of time with anyone creates sometimes a doubt of when is this going to happen? And I think in any, whether Eastern or Western culture, you know, there's an impatience with all of us, like, okay, so when are we going to get to this? And so some time goes by here when we get to Genesis 16. And I think, to your point, Zach, of maybe these are the baby steps of faith. Because when we get to chapter 16, Abraham's wife Sarah, she says, well, here's an idea, here's something. Maybe this is what God meant. And I'm paraphrasing, but this. Basically, she's saying, I got an idea. I have this maid servant, you know, I have this person that's, you know, she was Egyptian, ironically, that it would all wind up there. And, you know, she's young enough. Why don't you take her as a wife? And I thought Dr. Jackson did a really nice job of describing that, you know, because there's a lot of translations that call it concubine. She was saying, as a wife, it was an elevation of. Out of the hierarchy of what was there, not what God had said, but what they came up with, right? And then she says, and you can maybe produce a child with her. Which is exactly what happens. And, you know, this is kind to me. It's such an overview of what back to this idea of that we somehow can improve upon the plans of God. And like, because of our impatience or because of our pride or because of whatever it is, that we can somehow come up with a better plan. And it just. And it creates this whole quagmire that leads into this next process, which is this whole lesson about what happens when you're outside of that. It doesn't mean God doesn't still work, but it just means we create all these issues that God never meant to be. And I think it comes from our own impatience of Just really, in the end of the day, just trusting him. If he said something, it's going to happen. But, you know, it's very hard to embrace the impossible when we're mired in the possible at all times. We just can't see it. So if we can't see it, then we figure out we got to come up with a plan, which is what happens. There's sort of a kind of weird.

[C]

Like, callback to Adam and Eve with that of, like, Sarah taking it upon herself.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

I've never thought about that.

[A]

Oh, there is. I think, as you see that repetition play out throughout Scripture. But it's the. I use the word motif a lot because it's like these repetitive things that kind of play into a bigger picture. I mentioned the temple motif quite a bit. You know, Garden of Eden was the original temple. And then in the Exodus, when the tabernacle was instituted by Moses by God's command, that was a temple motif. It was a mobile temple nonetheless. Then there's the permanent temple structure that happens in 1 Kings 6. And then obviously with coming of Christ, now we're the temple. So I think you see these things play out. And the pattern of sin is also one that plays out. I mentioned in the last podcast how he talked about how the garden, we were initially put in charge of guarding and protecting the garden and cultivating it, and then because of sin, the garden had to be protected from us. But don't you think that's like, the nature of sin is that we're given this dominion over the earth, and sin is simply to take that dominion and to hand it over to the idols? And a lot of that comes from just a lack of trust. God, are you really going to do what you say you're going to do? It comes in the form of, ironically, it's weird because it seems like we're wanting control, but what we're actually doing when we try to grab what's God's, we're actually giving control over to the idols because the idol in that case is security and deliverance. And so Sarah, for whatever reason, did not really believe that God either he wasn't good enough to fulfill his promise or wasn't powerful enough to do it. So it was almost like, well, let me help you do that. Like, I want. We're. This promise is going to get done. But. But they were. They were just so skeptical.

[D]

Here's a. Here's a thought on that. So go jumping ahead into the future to the next lesson, which we haven't talked about yet is about Rebecca marrying Isaac. And one of the things he talks about in that lesson is the how active Rebecca was in contrast to Isaac's passivity. And we actually see this three times already. You've got Adam and Eve, where Eve is the active role in this. And now you've got Sarah, who is also the active role. Doubting God decides. Okay, let's come up with another solution here. Let's try to figure this out. Then you've got Rebekah, in a good way, taking the active role in their relationship with Isaac. But the sin of. And I think it would be easy to be like, oh, well, that's the women. They're trying to think. And the men were having faith, but they really weren't like Adam, Abram and Isaac. It's not that they were having faith, it's just that they didn't want the responsibility. They were just passing on the blame. Like whenever Eve and Sarah and Rebekah came up with something, they were like, okay, sure, that's like, I helps me, let's do it. Like, they weren't being the leader in that situation. They weren't trying to walk with God or anything. They were just had this passive role which allowed the doubt to come in. Whenever another idea came up. They were like, yeah, sure, let's try it.

[B]

Well, perfect example. A perfect illustration of that. I think you're so right, John Luke, because when I when the early days of our company and, you know, I was young, I was just, you know, a teenager, but I watched like dad was driven on making duck calls and making the best call, and he did not want any of the financial responsibility of running a company, which we all know that's one of the biggest parts, right? How are we going to get enough money to do supplies and all that? So he. But he didn't want to deal with that, you know, but that came with a job, but he didn't want that job. So he just totally pushed that off to Mom. And it was just like Ms. K figured out, well, you know, mom, she's trying to get food on the table, feed our. Feed the kids, but at the same time keep stock running into the business and keep all these things going on. So she's at Friendly Finance and every place in town trying to make it all work. So obviously not the best decisions made early on for a company trying to build itself. But again, it was because of a lack of faith and responsibility that went into the process. So that's exactly what you're seeing in this Situation. Why? The idea was in the beginning in the garden. Remember, this was the idea of a completion, a godlike union of people coming together and making something really good. But the minute that gets separated out, this is what you're starting to see. And bad decisions get made. And so I think that's clearly what's at work here. And then it creates now a son and a rivalry. We talked about God not being rivals with us, but this created a rivalry. This was Sarah's idea. But we don't get four verses into it, and she's like.

[A]

She's mad.

[B]

She's mad about it. I don't like this idea. Because now you're on the same level as me. Well, of course you came up with this plan. But it's like we as human beings, we come up with something we think will work, we get into it, and we realize it won't work because it never was God's plan to begin with.

[A]

Which is the dining alone. What I said in the last podcast, it's the dining alone without God. I'm eating the tree for the sake of itself. I'm making this decision on my own. I'm. I'm departing from God's presence in this, and I've got to make sure that this happens. And one of the things that Dr. Jackson brings up, which, by the way, if you want to jump in, you can go to unashamedforhellsdale.com, sign up and check us out, check the course out. But he mentions in this particular lecture, he mentions Genesis 15 in here, that Abraham expresses in this chapter a desire for an heir, which he does. So I mean, he is passive. I think that's an interesting point that you brought up, which I want to tie up in a second here with something. But in Genesis 15, this is a key text for understanding covenants, and particularly covenant theology. God's making a covenant with Abraham in this, or with Abram, rather in this text, he's Abram at this point. And the covenant is that I'm going to give you what I will give you. This is verse two. For he says, o Lord God, what will you give me? For I continue childless in the heir of my house is Eliza of Damascus. And Abraham said, behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir. And behold, the word of the Lord came to him. This man shall not be your heir. Your very own son, which you read a while ago, shall be your heir. And he brought him outside and he said, look up in the skies. And he said, count the stars. And Abraham's like, I can't. There's too many of them. He's like, well, that's how many grandkids you're going to have. So that was a covenant, Right? Well, this is what's interesting about this covenant. To seal the covenant, what happens next is absolutely bizarre if you don't understand it from an Eastern perspective. And it flies in the face with what Sarah was going to try to do, because Sarah's like, okay, let's make this covenant between us. You do your part and I'm going to do my part and we're going to come together. But what happens in Genesis 15 is God says, cut the animals in half and put half on one side, half on the other. And the idea is we're going to walk through. Both parties are going to walk through this. And what we're saying here is, if either one of us break this covenant, may this happen to. To me.

[C]

Blood covenant.

[A]

Yeah. Till death do us part. Right. But what happens is that God puts Abram to sleep and God alone walks through the covenant. So it's a weird covenant. Right, because it's essentially God saying.

[B]

What he's saying is, Abraham, you couldn't hold your half of the bargain anyway.

[A]

Well, what he's saying is, if either one of us break this covenant, may this happen to me. Foreshadowing the cross of Calvary. But that gets into this question of, well, do we have any response ability in this? And I think that. The term that I think applies here, I got it from Francis Schaeffer. It's called active passivity. Like, we're to be actively passive. And this is what it means to have the faith of Abraham, is that we're actively passive. And Schaeffer uses the story of Mother Mary, who conceived the child of God in her womb that we call Jesus the Messiah, Emmanuel, God with us. But what did she do to get that baby inside of her womb? Absolutely nothing. But she did yield her body to the Spirit. And I think that's what's happening here with these individuals, is that they're not actually they are taking the passive role, but they are having to submit ultimately to the plan of what God's going to do. They make mistakes along the way. They try to circumvent the promise by the whole Hagar Ishmael debacle, which turned out to be a complete nightmare. But in the end, who fulfills the covenant.

[B]

Right, Exactly.

[C]

Yeah. You see, because we talked about this in the first podcast, too, is the four different Relationships that were suffered in the garden and the human to human. And you really do see it in Genesis 16 with Sarah and Hagar. Like you said, it's just right off the bat, she has this plan and then she immediately doesn't like the plan. And then, you know, the two of them kind of go at it. But it's cool too. And it shows, really, God's redemption of. After Abraham and Sarah did that with Hagar, you know, God gives Abraham the promise in Genesis 17 and renames him Abraham. So I think that's cool too. It shows God's like, yeah, God's redemption and God's mercy that, you know, even Abraham messed up and didn't. Didn't trust the plan. It was skeptical, but God still fulfilled the promise.

[A]

Have you, have you ever done that, though? Like, you take matters into your own hand and then you think. And then it blows up in your face. You're like, crap. Why did I do that? Like, why? What was that? Why did I do that? Because you didn't have the full perspective until after you had the perspective. And so it's like, man, if I could just go back, the hindsight's 20 20. And so that's one of the reasons why God gets to determine the best course of action. Because his high. He has 100% hindsight and foresight. Like, he sees all. He knows all possibilities. He does everything that could possibly happen in every possible world. His middle knowledge, foreknowledge. Whatever kind of knowledge you want. God's got it all. We don't have that. We have a very limited perspective. So that's kind of the natural reason why it's kind of stupid for us to be like Sarah, which we are, and think, well, we're going to somehow partner with God in the planning and whatever the thing is. Yeah, let me help out with that. You know what I mean?

[B]

And then even look at it from God's perspective, because if you go and read, which I'll give you a rabbit hole that I won't get into on here, but I'll encourage you guys to go read the book of Galatians, which is a really interesting take that Paul has on this whole story that's quite different than when you're actually reading the story. Because when he talks about, he makes that same idea about the seed and the countless generations being the idea of through Christ being the seed. But then he paints in Genesis, I mean, Galatians four, the whole. A whole different look at this thing, that Hagar was a slave mother and we weren't born into slavery, we were born into freedom and sonship. And he gives you the whole different picture from the God view, which is quite, quite stunning to me because when I read this story, I mean, Sarah seems more like the bad guy here. Yeah, I mean for sure, you know, because she's like, she comes up with this thing, she's the one mistreating this.

[C]

This woman who didn't have a torture away.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

What did y' all think about the. Dr. Jackson mentions the laughter, that the laughter could be either joy, a laughter of joy, which was kind of more the Jewish view, or a laughter of skepticism.

[C]

I think it's both skepticism because I think there's the relatability to when God asks Abraham, why did Sarah laugh? So I think there's a funny. I think there's a callback there to them. They both were skeptical.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And kind of. So that's, that's my thought.

[A]

Yeah, I kind of thought it was more of a skepticism too. What'd you think, John Luke?

[D]

Yeah, yeah. To me it, I've always heard it as skepticism and that's how I've kind of like taken it. Like more like a scoff than, like.

[C]

A, than like a trusting then like.

[D]

A trusting, like joyful laughter. But I like what Dr. Jackson says is that in that when he's in this video he's like, we're not going to resolve this. He was like, just hold these things in your mind. And I thought that was such a good way to think about it. We don't have to answer every single question.

[A]

You hold them in tension.

[D]

Let's think about these things throughout each direction and then test them to see which one seems more like Abram, which one seems more like God in this situation.

[B]

Well, and I think it speaks to just biblical truth in general. We always tend to want to go either or. And a lot of times it's both and which I think in this case it was both. And in other words, when Sarah finally realizes it, there's no doubt hers was skeptical. But at the end of the day I think she laughs out of joy because it happened. I mean she's a 90 year old woman having a baby.

[A]

I mean, well, he says that either way. I thought this was a key point. Going back to the active passivity thing that I mentioned from Schaeffer. It doesn't matter if it's really skeptical or joy, the laughter, because in the end both of those are going to require her participation. And that makes some people uncomfortable. Right.

[C]

That was the funny Part.

[A]

Yeah, but some people, we don't participate. Well, yeah, you kind of do. I mean, you're not conjuring up your salvation. You're not bootstrapping yourself up. It is all the grace of God. Yes, yes, and yes. Mary didn't do anything to put a baby in her womb. The child was conceived by the Holy Spirit. But she did yield her body to Schaeffer's point. And I think it's the same thing here that we yield to the work of the Spirit. We yield. And so I love the way Schaeffer would put it, we raise the empty hands of faith. So when we come before a holy God, yeah, we do lift up. We do lift up something to him, which is nothing, which is like. But I do lift my empty hands, and I just submit myself to him. So submission is the participation, and that's what happens here.

[C]

And there's really no way. Yeah, because she could have been laughing at doubting God or. Yeah, she could have been laughing at her. Thinking about her and Abraham doing the deed at that age. So there's multiple things that she could have been laughing at.

[D]

Well, I think.

[B]

Multiple times. I agree.

[C]

He talked about that on. On. He did. He talked about that.

[D]

That was just a pause for a comment.

[C]

Dr. Jackson talked about that.

[B]

He did. And you're right. I thought.

[A]

How old were they?

[C]

Well, 90 and 100.

[A]

This guy.

[B]

Yeah, but he also. Abraham slept with Hagar. So, like, you know, she was younger. We said, oh, yeah. But he was still.

[D]

Well, that's why I'm not giving. When Abram would pass on that one. Because when Sarah is like, hey, sleep with a slave girl. Hagar, he's like, okay, all right. Well, I guess I hate to do it, but I will.

[B]

I guess it was like a typical man. Okay, if I got him.

[D]

If you say so. You're my wife. All right, sure.

[A]

What could go wrong?

[D]

Yeah. No, but just a laugh on the fact of, like, Sarah is laughing just because of all that happened, and now it's happening. Like, she realizes she was wrong. They went through this whole thing with Hagar and Ishmael and the whole thing, and then she gets pregnant, and it's just like a. This is like, I can't believe we went through all of that trouble for then it actually just to work out.

[B]

And remember several years had gone by before there was a revisit.

[C]

13 years.

[B]

Yeah, 13 years.

[C]

86 to 99.

[B]

So a lot of time had passed. And so then it was like, you know, I mean, I'm pretty sure she'd given up on anything else going on on it. And then all of a sudden, it was one of the things that struck me is because the one thing I love about this course. How do you get it? Z?

[A]

You get this [e-mail] it's free, no cost. Sign up.

[B]

So one of the things, one of the things I love about it is that I've learned something new every time that I hadn't thought about before at least once and sometimes multiple things. And I had really never recognized. The next lesson we're going to do is Abraham and Isaac. And I spent a ton of time there, especially in Genesis 22, because there's so much pictures of Jesus there. But I hadn't really made the link that really Ishmael's salvation was so close to Isaac's salvation. I mean, that whole setting in the wilderness, she had left him under a bush, hagar to die because it was over or out of water. And God shows up to save him because he also still lived under promise, even though it wasn't God's plan. He still provided. There was still mercy.

[A]

There was still mercy. And that he found her by the spring of water. Twice.

[C]

I was just about to bring that up. That's woman at the well.

[A]

Yeah, that's it.

[B]

I know.

[C]

That's both in their shame and God meets them at a spring of water.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah, I just read that. Yeah. One of the greatest points, I think, in this particular lecture was that she was near water and she was thirsting like she was basically dehydrated and was going to die and giving her son up to die. And then when she's at the water, she can't see it until God opens her eyes and then she can see the water. So she can't see the waters until God affirms that he's going to bless her, that he hears her suffering. And I thought that was a really powerful point because how many times think about mental illness, such a prevalent thing nowadays with anxiety and depression, and you've seen all the stats. It's astronomical. And if you've ever been in that season where you're in that season of despair, sometimes you can't see the water that's right before you until you can know that God hears your suffering. And in this case, he makes the point that God says, okay, I see your suffering. Now go suffer some more. And sometimes that is the answer, Right?

[B]

But in the end, which he says is the whole theme of the Old Testament. And he's probably right.

[A]

Yeah. When you get to Job, I mean, there's just a lot. I mean, there's a lot in that, right? We want to go around that suffering. And I just think, man, what if Christ had done that? I'm just going to forego the suffering part. We wouldn't be sitting there having this conversation.

[B]

Well, I do like the idea that we're talking about the father of the faithful, and yet we're pointing out, of course, a lot of those flaws. But, you know, there's a little story drop here that Dr. Jackson doesn't deal with. But it's all throughout this text that we're not reading. And that is, you remember Lot, who's his nephew leaves when he leaves and he goes with him. And then they get to a point where they're so successful they have to separate. And so Abraham lets the nephew decide where he wants to go. Well, he looks down in this rich valley, and by the way, there's two major cities down there. And he's like, well, I think I'll go there, duh. You know, that's the land of milk and honey in his mind. So he's going to go down the easier Abram stays up in the hills, the mountains a lot tougher sledding for what they're doing. Well, guess what's happening this whole time to Lot and his family down in the valley. Terrible. Like, the whole place becomes so bad. So this revisit to come back and renew this idea about Isaac happens against the backdrop of that whole place is about to be wiped out. Remember, Abraham tries to basically bargain for lives and souls. So the idea is that as bad as this situation is and to go against the plan of God and the difficulty this family faced, imagine them compared to Lot's family down in Sodom and Gomorrah when you just totally say, you know what, we're just going to let culture decide how we live. And Lot lost everybody except his two daughters.

[D]

Everything and everybody.

[B]

Exactly. So I just, I think it's a good backdrop for those of us to say, look, we're struggling in faith. Sometimes we still make mistakes. We don't trust in God, but we're not just like punting the whole thing and say we're going to live in full blown idolatrous culture, because when you do that, destruction is impossible. So you know that he didn't get into that, but I just couldn't help but notice it.

[A]

Well, I think it's important because what you got to see, what is God ultimately accomplishing is that he is Accumulating a people for himself. And that's first going to be the Jews, first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. I mean, it's the whole name of the podcast. We mention it all the time. The gospel is first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

[B]

Romans 1:16.

[A]

Romans 1:16. So right now, what we're in, we're in the initial phases of first for the Jew, or we're getting who is Israel? What does that even mean? Like, that's not even a thing yet. Like, that's happening. Like, we're at the very beginning of the birth of a nation, the birth of Israel. And Isaac is through Isaac shall your offspring be reckoned. So it's going to be Isaac, but Isaac's not even the one who is Israel. It's Isaac's son, Jacob, which we'll get into in the next podcast.

[B]

But that's so important, too, Zach, because the idea is that all this is done way before Moses and Sinai and Israel and the conquering of the land and all the stuff that happens later. I think God has always shown us that it always starts with the decision to listen to God, and that's before all the other stuff. And so even today, it's about a decision saying, you're Lord, I'm not. You're the I, I am the one that follows. And so I think all this, that's why Genesis is such a rich study, because even as you study the patriarchs, it's built and based on faith.

[A]

Oh, so good. Well, we're going to. Next week, we're going to get into Abraham and Isaac, and this is that Genesis 22 story, which is. I mean, you really need to just read that chapter over and over again, because this is where he's going to offer Isaac up as a sacrifice. And we'll talk about what all that means, which I thought was a great episode. Thought that was awesome. Or great. I say episode. I'm thinking in terms of podcasts. It was a great lecture.

[C]

Great lecture.

[A]

Lesson. Yeah. So we do want to thank the donors, the Hillsdale donors, for making all these courses available for free online. These guys have people that are backing them that really believe in educating America. I sat down with their entire team, their executive team, and the vision of what they want to do at Hillsdale is they want to educate America on these foundational principles of what made really our country. And that's why we're starting with Genesis, because that Genesis story is the beginning of all of it. We're going to do them every Friday So join us every Friday for Unashamed Academy, powered by Hillsdale College. All you got to do is go to unashamedforhillsdale.com to sign up at no cost, and you can take the classes with us. Again, that's unashamedforhillsdale.com they've got over 40 other online courses that are taught by the Hillsdale faculty. Courses on history, literature, theology, politics. I do want to do the CS Lewis course before we get out of this year.

[B]

What we're trying to do is. What Hillsdale is trying to do is encourage people to never stop learning. My mentor was a guy named Bill Smith, the same one that led dad to Christ. And one of the things he stressed to me over and over and over again, he said, al, never stop studying. You know, because we get an opportunity to express our opinions, to study the Bible, to teach. We're all on podcasts, and we get to talk about this all the time. We're super busy, but we're never too busy to learn more. And one of the things that I've really appreciated about this course with Dr. Jackson is he has opened my eyes to things I hadn't seen before. And it's just because someone else who has dedicated their life to studying something opens up the door for us. And I've even learned that from you guys. This is a great experience, because being around other people and looking at it from their perspective, if you get something new and different every time. So as. As we're learning and. And they make it easy because these are short bites that you can grab 30 minutes, you know, to get.

[A]

They got a quiz after a little.

[B]

Quiz afterwards, which I've missed at least one on every quiz, I think, except the last one.

[A]

Well, I'm 100%1 of y'. All.

[C]

I was. Yeah, well, I was 90. 90, 100.

[B]

That's what I was.

[C]

But I missed the one that was both of the above. And then the second one, I put true instead of false.

[B]

You know how it is with this. Those are more difficult.

[C]

You.

[B]

You overthink it.

[A]

No, I think that's. I'm glad y' all shared that thing because, like, if you get in here and you. And you don't and you miss a few, that's okay. Yeah.

[C]

I could have retaken it and gotten 100 and then just told you I got 100.

[B]

It gives you that the quiz makes.

[D]

You want to, like, pay more attention.

[A]

It's like a natural accountability. My notes are actually on. I keep my notes on the. You can have a note on the thing. Yeah, you can. So I'm typing my notes, and then like, right now, I've got all of my notes pulled up, and this is like, lesson one, lesson two, lesson three, lesson four. So I've got all my notes here, and then they have, like, a study guide that goes along with it. So, I mean, you can go honestly as deep in this as you want, but if you really want to learn Genesis, to me, this is a great opportunity. We're going to do this over six weeks, six episodes. So to take the course, listen to the podcast, do your reading, you're going to learn the basics of Genesis. It's a great foundation. It really is a great foundation into great Bible study. I'm glad we get to do it. All right, join us every Friday for Unashamed Academy, powered by Hillsdale College. Make sure to go to unashamed for hillsdale.com and sign up. It's no cost to you. That's unashamed for hillsdale.com. and don't miss an episode of the Unashamed podcast by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.