Ep 1170 | Willie Pranks Tim Tebow Like a King of Overkill & How the Gospel Humbles Our Pride

Summary

Podcast Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode 1170 | Willie Pranks Tim Tebow Like a King of Overkill & How the Gospel Humbles Our Pride
Date: September 22, 2025
Hosts: Al, Jase (Jason), Zach, and Jason

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Main Theme

In this episode, the Robertson family dives into their unique, often playful dynamic, discussing how humor, storytelling, and even playful arguments are foundational to their relationships. The second half of the episode shifts focus to a deep biblical discussion on John 16, centering on the Holy Spirit’s convicting power, the process of transformation for believers, and how the Gospel humbles personal pride. Along the way, the crew shares family stories—including Willie’s epic prank on Tim Tebow—and explores theological concepts in their distinctively approachable, Southern style.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Robertson Family Dynamics: Humor, Arguments, and Thick Skin

• The show opens with banter about their pre-podcast arguments, and how their family culture, built on playful debating, is often misunderstood by outsiders (01:00-06:55).
  • Zach: “Everyone that I brought into our family, even Missy, she was just so distraught … she thought like there was a fight fixing to break out. I’m like, oh no. This is how we communicate. You see if your argument will stand.” (01:54)
  • The hosts emphasize the value they find in having “unoffendable” friends—those who can challenge you, joke, and disagree without it becoming a wedge in the relationship.
  • Jason: “I value having somebody in my life who’s unoffendable.” (07:41)
  • A running joke throughout: accidental FaceTimes and text thread drama illustrate their humorous miscommunications and reconciliation (06:55–11:59).

2. Storytelling Legacy & Willie’s Prank on Tim Tebow

• The hosts reflect on the power of storytelling in their family—drawing on memories of their father, Phil, and their Louisiana culture (13:48–14:58).
  • Al: “He would just sit and tell stories for hours… and I was always enthralled. … It was like listening to your favorite comedian.” (14:19)
• Willie’s Prank on Tim Tebow (15:00–18:18):
  • Willie decorated a Michigan green room in over-the-top LSU colors and attire to playfully rib Tim Tebow, an SEC/Florida legend, before a shared speaking event.
  • Zach: “He took purple and gold ribbon … made the whole green room LSU colors with all kinds … way over the top. … When Tebow came in, they filmed his reaction.” (16:01)
  • The hosts emphasize the role of storytelling and playful pranks in relationship building.

3. The Holy Spirit’s Conviction: John 16 and Identity in Christ

• The episode transitions into a Bible study, focusing on John 16’s promises about the Holy Spirit (19:00–33:03).
  • Al: “The Holy Spirit convicts the world because of the purity of what you see … fruit that comes forth from the believer is the conviction of both sin and judgment.” (19:19)
  • The group breaks down Greek terms for sin (hamartia), righteousness (dikaiosyne), and judgment (krisis)—drawing links to how crisis moments reveal spiritual realities (20:09–20:27).
  • Zach: “When you share Jesus, it makes people mad, glad or sad, regardless, every time, no matter what …” (23:25)
• The hosts highlight how the Holy Spirit exposes truth, aligning believers to God’s will, and creating a life marked by transformation—not merely transactional moralism.

4. Truth, Revelation, and Transformation

• (25:26–36:49) The conversation critiques postmodernism’s concept of “my truth,” emphasizing that truth is revealed by God, not constructed by individuals.
  • Jason: “We have to receive [truth] through revelation from God. … Reality is not something that we determine for ourselves.” (27:04)
  • They explore two kinds of biblical revelation:
    • General revelation: God’s existence is evident in creation.
    • Special revelation: God’s nature and will are revealed especially in Christ and Scripture.
  • The discussion weaves in Paul’s teaching from Ephesians 4 & 5 and Romans 12, describing the Spirit’s role in ‘renewing the mind’ and leading believers from darkness into light. (30:30–36:49).
  • Zach: “For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light …” (Ephesians 5:8, quoted at 33:03)

5. The Nature of the Holy Spirit and the Trinity

• The episode expands on the personhood of the Holy Spirit—not merely an impersonal force, but a personal agent within the Trinity (45:13–50:12).
  • Jason: “According to scripture, the Spirit has a pronoun … And the pronoun is not it, because that would … refer to an impersonal entity. … This is an actual person that will live in us.” (45:13–45:58)
  • The transformation that takes place in the believer is intentional, aligning one’s will to the Father’s, enabled by the Spirit.
  • Zach: “Through the Spirit, our wills are realigned. … What we want changes to be what God wants.” (47:53)
• The hosts playfully use AI-generated definitions of air and fire to draw parallels to biblical metaphors for the Spirit and the Trinity (“fire triangle”: fuel, oxygen, heat; Father, Son, Spirit). (50:22–54:03)
  • Zach: “Either John was the greatest physicist … or 2,000 years later … do you not see some kind of godly component to who he is and what’s been created?” (52:31)
  • They reference the burning bush (Exodus), making the point that God’s fire is unique—eternally self-sustaining.

6. Conclusion and Call to Awareness of the Spirit

• The episode closes with a reminder that the same Spirit referenced in creation hovers within the believer’s life, bringing order out of chaos and transformation from darkness to light (54:25–55:18).
  • Al: “He only had to tell him [Moses] that once … You say, is the spirit real? Is your spirit real? Yeah, you— you have one.” (54:41; 55:14)
  • Zach: “Do you realize this is living inside of you?” (55:18)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pranks and Storytelling:
  • “He took purple and gold ribbon … made the whole green room LSU colors … way over the top … When Tebow came in, they filmed his reaction.” – Zach (16:01)
• On Healthy Debate:
  • “I value having somebody in my life who’s unoffendable.” – Jason (07:41)
• On Sharing the Gospel:
  • “When you share Jesus, it makes people mad, glad or sad, regardless, every time …” – Zach (23:25)
• On Biblical Transformation:
  • “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. … You have to have a guide to get there. … Transformation produces something that you couldn’t produce without the Spirit.” – Al (36:02–36:49)
• On the Nature of the Holy Spirit:
  • “We are talking about a person [the Spirit], we are not talking about an impersonal force or energy that enters into a space.” – Jason (45:13–45:58)
• On God as Fire:
  • “God’s the fire that God is. He doesn’t need any material. He just burns. The flame is eternal.” – Jason (53:39)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Family Argument Culture / Value of Unoffendable Friends:
  • 01:00–06:55
• Accidental FaceTime, Miscommunication Story:
  • 06:55–11:59
• Storytelling Legacy:
  • 13:48–14:58
• Willie’s Prank on Tim Tebow:
  • 15:00–18:18
• Bible Study: John 16 & Holy Spirit Conviction:
  • 19:00–33:03
• Revelation, Truth, and Transformation:
  • 25:26–36:49
• Trinity, Personhood of the Spirit, Holy Spirit Metaphors:
  • 45:13–54:03
• Conclusion, Living by the Spirit:
  • 54:25–55:18

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is lively, authentic, and grounded in the Robertsons’ blend of humor, humility, and deep biblical reflection. Stories and jokes give way to deep scriptural exploration, making complex theological ideas accessible. Listeners come away encouraged to welcome the disruptions, pranks, and even arguments that real relationships—and a real God—bring into life, knowing these can be used by the Spirit to humble pride and point to deeper truth.

Transcript

[Jason]

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[Zach]

I am unashamed.

[Jason]

What about you?

[Al]

Welcome back to Unashamed. We it's Zach. It's the podcast before the podcast. That's where all the good stuff happens that we can never talk about because.

[Jason]

We could not, we could probably couldn't air that. It wasn't bad. It just was.

[Zach]

Well, y' all were wrong and I was right and so that's why we're not airing it. Psa.

[Al]

Jason's marriage advice Trust me, audience, you do not want to.

[Jason]

I have, I have a catalog of all of these early because we're recording. I don't know if y' all know that or not. So I have the catalog at one when I want to burn the whole thing down. When it's, when we're done, we'll do Revelation and then I'm going to have a whole nother thing.

[Al]

It's going to be that.

[Jason]

It's just going to be the, the pre party and the after party content.

[Al]

Unashamed, Unplugged. That's what it'll be.

[Jason]

I don't have it recorded. I'm just kidding.

[Zach]

You know what's crazy is we have argumentative tendencies. Well, I think it comes from our childhood because everyone that I brought into our family, even, even Missy, the first time she visited down, you know, to where we live, she, she was just so distraught, you know, because she thought like there was a fight fixing to break out. I'm like, oh no. This is how we communicate. You. You see if your argument will stand.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And more. If it doesn't, you need to go back. And.

[Al]

And we did it. Even Jason. Like Playtime like, it was like, we play dominoes or cards, which is why I don't even enjoy it anymore. Because you kind of still have an outlet, I guess, through playing poker. But, yeah, I. I don't have that anymore. And, like, people try to get me to play games with them, like card games or whatever Lisa plays. They play the master or whatever, and I just can't. I'm like, no, I have no desire, because if it's not for blood and, you know, for keeps, that I just can't do it.

[Jason]

Just.

[Al]

I have no interest in it.

[Zach]

Me and Willie used to take a lot of flack because there's this old golf course here. Most people, like the group we played in, were way older than me and Willie, and they got on each other mercilessly from the time we started till we quit. And everybody kept saying, why? Why do y' all play with those guys? I was like, this is the greatest entertainment on earth. Exactly. If they never did it to us, I mean, they'd make a few snide comments here and there, which I was like, I am unoffendable. Yeah, bring it on. I'm not good at golf, so whatever you're saying, it doesn't affect me. But, boy, we used to laugh at those guys. I mean, unfortunately, half of them are dead now, but they griped and complained it was all about whatever little game they were playing. And they never could agree. And then they. The golf was just kind of the backdrop for whatever argument went. But we just found it fascinating, which I guess most people, they wouldn't like that. And it was just funny to us. But if you would have been looking from afar, you thought one of them was fixed to try to hurt the other, but now they're just making a point.

[Al]

You know, it's the first. Is the first hour of Lonesome Dove. If you ever go back and watch Lonesome Dove, the first hour of those two old men, two old Texas Rangers getting at each other is some of the best television ever made. It's so funny.

[Jason]

It is a love language. Christian called me night before last because we're doing the Unashamed with Hillsdale on Fridays. And that we have a text thread with me, Al Christian, and John Luke.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

So they started roasting me. Why? They don't really. I don't do texts like the group threads. I have a hard time keeping up with them. I don't know why. I just. I just never.

[Al]

Because you're. Because you put the A and D and add.

[Zach]

There's a. There's a. But I'm not technologically savvy, but I do know this. There's a little blue bar that says leave the conversation. I have pushed that button on every group text I'm in, except the one with my immediate family and the one that does this podcast. Everything else I left.

[Jason]

Wow. I feel like we are in high regard, Al. Well, I didn't leave it. I. The. The thing. The jokes in there were funny. They were definitely geared towards me. They were making fun of me about a particular inside joke we have, and I never responded. Well, then I finally respond with, hey, this is the wrong. You got the wrong Zach on the wrong day. But I was kidding. I was just like, I got you.

[Al]

I got your Joe. That's why I didn't even respond.

[Jason]

Yeah, I was like, you got.

[Al]

You were serious?

[Jason]

Oh, he's like, oh.

[Zach]

So then he's like, you can't base any. Any validity to a text.

[Al]

Yeah. You don't really.

[Jason]

You don't know.

[Zach]

People make jokes and. And it just doesn't land. And then they don't. And then they do all these little. What are they called? Memes.

[Jason]

Memes. There are a lot of memes in there.

[Zach]

So he called me for two minutes, and then that. That should have died.

[Jason]

Well, he called John. Well, first he called Al to check with you. Al. He said you didn't answer. I said, I could have. I could have told you Al wasn't going to answer his call.

[Al]

You know why? Because I knew what he was calling about. I. I knew he took you serious, and I thought, no, he's got to grow up. If you're going to eat at the adult table, you're going to have to keep up.

[Zach]

You need thick skin. Well, I said all that to say, you know, Zach and I have an interesting relationship. And here we go.

[Jason]

Now I feel like. Hold on, let me put my thick skin on, because I feel like I'm about to get. I feel like whatever's coming next, I feel like this is going to be.

[Zach]

You're going to like this story. You're going to like this. All right, so at my last event, we. It was like a double barrel. We did the event, and then the next night, we did the same event. It was sold out both times, standing room only. And. But so I. They did a meet and greet, and I would say, supposed to be 200 both nights, but I would say, doing the math, it was probably closer to seven or 800 people that I met, and most of them listened to this podcast. You know what the number one question I got. Or the number one topic, let me put it that way, that was talked about.

[Jason]

What's that?

[Zach]

Me and you and our relationship. It was pretty funny.

[Jason]

They were. They worried about it?

[Zach]

Yeah, most. Most were. They were like, I don't understand why y' all can't get along. And I said, it's all a joke. We're not. We're able to have a combative relationship for humor purposes and we argue our positions. I said, I value having somebody in my life who's unoffendable. I value that. Most of my really good friends have that quality. I can say anything, anytime, anywhere, because they know deep down in my heart, you know, I love them. And I like having these, these conversations. But to prove the point, and I think this will be help. So at like 6:30 next morning, after I'm flying back here, I was, you know, you're in an airport terminal. You know, I'm talking to people. I'm not sitting there on my phone like most people. And I looked down and I missed a FaceTime call from Zach, which I thought was weird. Yeah, I thought it was early because I don't even know what time zone I'm in. So it's six, seven o' clock in the morning.

[Al]

And.

[Zach]

And he tried to FaceTime me. And so I sent a text saying, I'm flying, I'll call you back. I think the first time I said in 15, 20 minutes. But that 15, 20 minutes came and went because I just kept getting distracted. I got into a Bible study on the plane. So anyway, after I flew from the first destination, I tried to call him, didn't answer. At some point he sends me a text saying, I'll get back with you. I tried to call him, he tried to call me. There's a couple more texts. It gets on into the evening. Now this has been an all day ordeal. We finally get a hold of each other and I was like, what were you calling me for? He said, well, I thought you called me. I was like, no, you FaceTimed me at 7:00 this morning. And he's like, I must have butt dialed you. I spent all day trying to get a meeting and it was all over. He accidentally FaceTimed me accidentally. So that depicts our relationship. I think that's it.

[Jason]

That's it right there.

[Al]

That's it in a nutshell.

[Zach]

True story, Hansai.

[Jason]

Yeah, I think it is true. I mean, it happened. I didn't know why. I was like, why is he called? I was in the middle of church and I was like, like, he. But the way you said it was like that I had initiated it, and I was a little confused. So I went back and looked at my phone. I said, I didn't call him. So I don't know how that happened because I had no record of it in my call log. You know, this year's been tough on me because my football team is. Is losing a lot of games. I don't have a whole lot to brag about, but one thing I can brag about is my wireless company. Did you know that my wireless company, Pure Talk, gave gave away a thousand American flags to deserving veterans? They also forgave $10 million in veteran debt, and they raised half a million dollars to prevent veteran suicide. In other words, when your wireless company is Pure Talk, there's a whole lot to brag about. You can even brag about the coverage that you get with PureTalk. It's a 5G network. It's insanely fast, dependable, and secure. And you can definitely brag about how much money you're going to save with Pure Talk because you get unlimited text talk and plenty of data for just 25 bucks a month, saving the average American family over $1,000 a year. Look, I'm on PureTalk, and I can tell you the coverage is second to none. And I love the fact, again, that they. These guys are committed to helping our veterans, and now is the time to switch to my wireless company, Pure Talk. And you can do that by going to puretalk.comunashamed and save an additional 50% off your first month. Again, puretalk.comunashamed to make the switch today, PureTalk Wireless. Worth bragging about. So I didn't know what it. What it was about, and. And it was so weird. I thought something had gone wrong. So I was. I was urgent in getting to you, you know, but I didn't know what was happening. I thought. I thought maybe he. Maybe I finally offended him. Maybe I finally made him mad. I did make you mad. I did make you mad one time recently when I yawned because you actually.

[Zach]

In the podcast, because we did have.

[Jason]

A call, which that was. I was surprised by that. But you were like. You were mad. And we had a.

[Zach]

Because I thought, yeah, if you're yawning.

[Al]

And it made me so happy because it was so funny. Like, Jason's making this, you know, the biggest part of the podcast.

[Zach]

And I was like, I thought, if you're yawning, you need to repent right now.

[Jason]

And now every time I yawn, because I know it offends you. I do it through my nose so that you can't see me doing it. See me posture up. I'm just. Y' all just yawn through the nose.

[Al]

Well, look, the event I was at in Missouri, Brad, the guy who organized the event, he did come. He's a. He's an ardent listener. He loves our podcast, and he told me that Zach was his favorite. And so Zach, there's. There's at least one guy, there's Brad in. In Fulton, Missouri, that says you're his favorite on the podcast. So there you go. You got. You got one famous.

[Jason]

Well, I got one out there. I got some detractors, though. Imagine I read the comments.

[Zach]

Kingdom of God people.

[Jason]

That's right. Diversity and unity. Yeah.

[Al]

Well, what my favorite line. Jace to people. My favorite thing to ask them. They'll tell me they love the podcast or they listen to the podcast, which, by the way, like, now every audience I ask, like, more than half of the people in the audience raise their hand when I say, have you ever listened to understand Podcast? So, I mean, our audience is. It's got to be growing, or at least there's just a lot of people out there that listen. So, yeah, I've just noticed the more I go now, the more they listen. But I always ask them the same thing. I said, you think, Jay? You think, oh, Jason, going to run out of stories? And they always say the same thing.

[Jason]

Never, never.

[Zach]

Never came from our dad. He used to say that all the time.

[Al]

Yeah, never.

[Zach]

I got it from him. Did he ever run out of a story?

[Al]

No.

[Zach]

I've said this many times, Phil. You know, most people, they talk about their parents. You know, they tend to just kind of have the same issues they keep bringing up. But every day was a new day with our dad because he had come up with something that I had never heard. And I thought, boy, is he dream. Is he dreaming this stuff? Or where does it come from?

[Al]

This. Do you remember when. When dad was young, like, when we first moved down the river, we were just kids, but when he would have. We would have people over from church mostly those first few years, you know, just kind of getting to know people, I guess, building community. But do you remember him? He would just sit and tell stories for hours.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Al]

Do you remember that? Like, he would just go one after the other after the other, and I was always enthralled. You know, I would just sit there and, like, I'd heard a bunch of them, you know, hundreds of times, but I would say, he was so Entertaining that I would. It was like listening to your favorite comedian or what. You know, you always laughed at the same spots.

[Zach]

I think it's really about, you know, Louisiana, the culture that we live in. It is some of the greatest storytellers of all time, which is really why I believe, you know, God chose our family in our specific way to kind of reach people out there. I mean, Willie told me a story in the airport because we randomly bumped into each other, which was kind of funny coming from two totally different directions. He went to Jacksonville, Florida, and spoke at Joby Martin's church. Well, I think Tim Tebow goes there, or he's from Jacksonville. Well, Tim Tebow was in Baton Rouge, and. Oh, yeah, for the game, for the sec, whatever network. Well, it's kind of weird that we're LSU fans. He's obviously a Florida fan. But then they both went to Michigan because they had an event together, Willie and Tebow. But Willie got there before Thiebaud. So he went into the green room. That's never green.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And he had an idea because he was bored, and he sent me the video, and it was. He took purple and gold ribbon. I'm sure he had a team to do this because it was incredible and made the whole green room. LSU colors with all kinds. It's, like, way over the top. I mean, it would take an hour to clean this up. And then he was dressed in all lsu. And then when Tebow came in, they, like, filmed his reaction.

[Jason]

Yeah. Willie's laying on the couch in the green room, which I thought, what? Timmy should have died when he walked in. Because, you know, Timmy's a big boy. He's very muscular, strong.

[Zach]

He should have.

[Jason]

He should have punched Willie right in the face. He should have just read. I mean, he should have gone just. I mean, he should have been. I wish you would have punched Willie.

[Al]

So much violence with these Florida fans, Jason.

[Zach]

But the reason I tell that story is because Willie then said they all went, you know, out to eat or something. And what is. Like, I felt kind of bad because every time there was a moment of silence, they kept saying, well, tell us some more stories, Willie. And he was like, you know, I was trying to involve everyone, like. And they just kept asking for stories.

[Jason]

And I thought, well, Willie's a storyteller, too.

[Zach]

Yeah, that's just who we are. We ever.

[Al]

Did you ever watch Willie on Tucker Carlson? I mean, he went on that show and he talked for, like, two hours. And Tucker.

[Zach]

More than that.

[Al]

Tucker. And Willie said. Afterwards, Tucker said, willie, I've never had a guest talk as much as you just talk. I mean, he just. You're right. I guess you just don't run us. So what. What was. I didn't see the video. What. What was Tebow's reaction?

[Zach]

I mean, it's so. So unusual because I think Willie put it on his. Whatever y' all call this stuff. Instagram sent me that, so then I had to go call somebody to figure out how to watch it. And.

[Al]

I'm the same way. As soon as I get one thing that says, go do this, then I'm out.

[Zach]

I'm like, well, I don't know my passwords. I don't know. But I finally somebody got it working, so I watched it, but it was hilarious. Such a night. We have such a new.

[Jason]

Jays got locked out of Twitter, which is now X for about two years.

[Zach]

Well, that was pretty big.

[Jason]

You have a pretty big Twitter account. He's like, yeah, I mean, I'll get in in two years. So literally within 48 hours, we. I had him in it, but he literally did not have access to his own Twitter account. And they were selling stuff on there, weren't they?

[Zach]

That was different.

[Al]

I got hacked.

[Jason]

He's just like, that happens, you know, I'm like, no, we need to deal with this. Ah, you know, I don't know. I can't figure that. I never could figure that out.

[Al]

Speaking of world within a world, Jason.

[Zach]

Oh. I said, somebody's making a lot of money off my Twitter account, man. They're not giving me a dad.

[Jason]

That doesn't bother you? He's like, I mean, yeah, but what are you gonna do about it? Like, we'll figure out a way to fix it. Let me.

[Zach]

I'll.

[Jason]

I'm gonna. We'll get. We'll get on this.

[Zach]

Y' all did good. You fixed it.

[Al]

I started getting texts, and they were like, does Jay's really sign computers and sell.

[Jason]

They were selling Apple computers.

[Zach]

Yeah, they were selling computers, but I'm sure they stole.

[Al]

So.

[Zach]

Yeah, there you go.

[Al]

Yeah, supposedly. All right, well, we're going to get to the Book of John again.

[Jason]

Let's get to the Bible.

[Al]

Well, we're in. John 16 is where we are. And we were. We were in this text, the last podcast, kind of the end. Well, the middle of the. Of chapter 16. And we were making the point of this kind of Holy Spirit conviction text is kind of where we left off, which I found fascinating, because the idea here is that. And we talked about this, that the Holy Spirit convicts the world because of the purity of what you see. In other words, it's like the fruit of that comes forth from the believer is the conviction of both sin and judgment. And what was the other one, justice and righteousness that he talks about in the text, which is really fascinating when you think.

[Zach]

I looked up, I saw in your notes, you kind of had the Greek word for sin.

[Al]

Yeah, and righteousness and judgment. Yeah, and judgment, which I guess that crisis. Jason comes. I guess that's where we get the word crisis.

[Zach]

Oh, that's where it comes from. The Greek word for judgment is crisis.

[Al]

Think of a K. Yeah.

[Zach]

It makes me think of that verse in 1st Thessalonians 5:4. You know when it says don't be surprised when Jesus comes back.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

You, whatever, whatever your thoughts are on your maker, it will be crisis time when he appears. If you're surprised, that's probably a bad sign that he's coming back.

[Al]

That's always been one of my favorite lines. Especially my kids, when they come in, they go like they're in a panic and I'm like, hang on, your lack of planning is not my crisis. You know, you just calm down. You know what I'm saying? That's like somebody has a lack of planning and then it's. They try to put the crisis on you.

[Jason]

Jase. Why is duck season the most wonderful time of year?

[Zach]

It's like a new birth process. After nine months of getting ready to hunt and getting the land ready for.

[Jason]

Visitors, well, duck season means it's duck stamp time. But now there's a better way. You can go to duckstamp.com and you'll see the new digital duck stamp that goes right onto your phone. It's simpler, it works offline, and it's ready when the game warden shows up. But here's what most folks don't realize about buying a duck stamp. It's one of the most effective ways that you can support real conservation efforts in America. So wetlands, ducks, migration routes, it all gets protected for our kids and our grandkids to enjoy the future. So, yeah, it's just a stamp, but it stands for something way bigger.

[Zach]

Well, I believe part of our God given vocation is to steward the land and the animal world. So this is something that we get to enjoy, but we're also preserving and passing on to our future generations.

[Al]

It's the most wonderful time of the year.

[Jason]

And one of the ways you can help do that is by going to duckstamp.com unashamed today and be part of something that matters. Duckstamp.com, unashamed.

[Zach]

I made the point that this judgment does happen now, in time, in a way, as spirit filled people. When you speak truth, that's why it goes on to say, when he, the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. I think we talked about the question that I had about how does the Holy Spirit teach you everything and remind you of the things. Yeah, that's where we left off. John 14. That's where we left off. But the truth is revealing because I looked up, I saw what you did. I looked up the Greek word for convict. I was kind of surprised at what I found because you can look up all those words and then see how it relates. But one of the ways it tends to be used is this exposure. You're exposing back to this concept of Jesus is the light of the world. And our dad used to say, and he got it from the guy that brought him to the Lord, when you share Jesus, it makes people mad, glad or sad, regardless, every time, no matter what the situation is. And our dad used to say, what else could you share in life that would do that? But have you noticed that, Al?

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

There'S an exposure that happens because you realize if this is true, if Jesus is who he says he is, did what he did, is doing what he's doing, will do what happens next, then it has to be a response. You're either, oh boy, rubbing your hands together. This is exciting. Can I come surrendering? Or you're sad just, you know, because of the way you've lived, or you're convicted, embarrassed, or you're mad because you don't want that to be true and you don't want to surrender, you know, because of pride or whatever.

[Al]

I think you're right. And I think that's what is so powerful about the text, is seeing it from both sides. You know, the. The same spirit that indwells you, that the conviction for us, the exposure for us is, is a guidance principle. In other words, it's a consistent thing in our lives that guides us back to the right pathway. Even if we for some reason see something the wrong way, the spirit is there to guide you back. But if you don't have the spirit, then how do you have. Where do you go? I mean, how do you get guided to the right pathway? That's why it just seems to get in darker and darker places. And you see lives just been more and more out of control. I mean, you can see exactly how it happens. And you're right, it's not just talking about final judgment at all. It's talking about daily judgment.

[Jason]

Well, because he says and, and, and he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment. So he's encapsulating all three of those things, which is the now and the not yet. The judgment's the not yet, you know, that's coming at the end. But concerning judgment, because of this ruler, the ruler of this world is judged or now stands condemned. I think the NIV reads. But I think what is difficult for us to grasp in this is that so we're in, we're coming out to the end of a thing called postmodernism, which is essentially that truth is relative. And that's been the current cultural moment that we've all lived through. That truth is in the eye of the beholder. Truth is something that comes from within. Look inside yourself to find the truth. You determine truth for yourself. I'm living out my truth. Or that's the phrases that would be common over the last five years. This is my truth. As if the truth is more your perception of something as opposed to truth is outside of us and it's revealed to us. So when you. I think this is a really important conversation because it's one of the things when I look at like a lot of different philosophies which somebody said in one of our podcasts that we need to not read philosophers, which, which is an actual philosophy in and of itself. We've had that debate on here quite a bit. But, but we have had that debate. I know I had it. I know I had it with Phil one time. But. But I think we're all, we're all coming.

[Al]

I think anytime you say Don read something that right off the bat my alarm bell goes off.

[Jason]

Yeah, it's like that means you're not.

[Al]

Very strong in your mind if you, if you say you can't read something.

[Jason]

I mean, because what we're doing is we. The Bible. I mentioned this in a previous podcast that we don't fight with the weapons of this world. What we do, we have a divine power that demolishes philosophies, strongholds, arguments, lofty arguments. Those are human made philosophies that set themselves up, they set themselves up against the knowledge of God. And so one of the biblical term that would be in like any kind of textbook that you would read at a seminary would be the word revelation. It's a key part of how revelation, not the book revelation, but just the idea of revelation that God, he reveals the order of the world to us. God reveals reality to us. So reality is not something that we determine for ourselves. It's something that we have to receive through revelation from God. That was the point of that Romans one passage that the divine attributes of God have been clearly perceived through what has been made. So when you look at revelation and scripture, we see two ways that the Bible talks about revelation. One way is that God generally reveals himself through the creation. We walk outside, and you don't have to know anything about the Bible to know there's a God. You can look and I mean, Aristotle never read the Scriptures, but he knew that there was an unmovable object just through basic reasoning. That's called natural law. But then there's that special revelation that tells us who this God is, that he's triune, that his Son's name is Jesus. And so the Spirit is the one who is revealing that to us. And the Spirit is the member of the. It's one of the persons of the Trinity that is actually revealing to us what reality ultimately is. And the ultimate reality is the triune God himself. So if you were to think about revelation in this way, and I think it has everything to do with the text of John 16, is that all knowledge begins with God revealing it. And then everything that God is revealing is ultimately his inner life and his heart and who he is in the end. And so when the Bible says here that when the Spirit comes, he's going to guide you into all truth, he's not just simply saying that. He's going to tell you that, you know, he's going to give you mathematical equations, what he's talking about here. God is going to reveal the actual nature of reality to you. He's going to tell you about your sin. He's going to tell you about your guilt. He's going to tell you about righteousness, how to live right, how to actually live in a right relationship with him. And he's going to tell you about judgment. He's going to reveal this to you. And that is the way that the believer is going to be able to operate now in the world. And that is the way that the believer is going to actually be able to manifest the fruit of the Spirit, which Paul will later explain in Galatians, chapter five.

[Al]

No, I couldn't agree more. In fact, you think about it, creation, and then this recreation we've been talking about, the kingdom, the temple, all these things we've seen since Jesus was here and poured his spirit out. And then you see the third phase, which is the last one, is then into Eternity at the final resurrection. But that's. That. That's exact. I mean, think about how ordered your life is when you know those things.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah, I was going to say, like Ephesians 4 and 5 are. It's a really good example of what we're talking about. Just lived out modern day. Because you remember in John 12:36, he said, put your trust in the light while you have it so that you may become children of light. Well, he hadn't really introduced the Holy Spirit at that time, which he does in 14, 15 and 16. But like, when you go to Ephesians 4 and you know, in 17, he's like, I tell you this and insist on in the Lord that you must no longer live. Like. And he starts bringing up this light and darkness and people losing sensitivity. He gets to verse 20. He's like, when you came to Christ, you heard. And then he gets into this, putting off the old self and putting on the new self in the attitude of your minds, created in God in true righteousness and holiness, which he's bringing up in this, you know, John 16. But then he goes on to say in 29, don't let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth. And he gets to 30 and says, don't grieve the Holy Spirit of God whom you were sealed for the day of redemption, and get rid of all these negative things and put on the positive. Be kind and compassionate. So then he's like, five one, be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children, and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us. He gets into this even more, not just sins, but like having a hint or an image of certain sins where you're like deceiving yourself. And he's like, don't be partners with that. So I read all that to get to 5, 8, where he says, for you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light, for the fruit of the light consists of goodness, righteousness and truth. And find out what pleases the Lord. And then he goes down to that famous, you know, segue verse where he's like, don't get drunk, but instead be filled with the Spirit. And I think you see that lived out what he's predicting is going to happen to his disciples. Here you fast forward later on in the Bible and you actually see this lived out, which is kind of cool.

[Jason]

So we're at the beginning of back to school time, which means everybody's in a hurry, everybody's in a rush you're running kids from point A to point B. And it's easy to just slide into the old fast food game, which is always horrible and it's super unhealthy. We're doing it just to save time. But I have a solution for you. It's our partner, Home Chef. These guys make incredible meals. In fact, I'm looking right now at some of the current meals they're offering. The Ramsay. This is the Gordon Ramsay, by the way. The Ramsay French onion filet mignon. Al, how does that sound?

[Al]

Sounds delicious. You have me at Gordon or the.

[Jason]

Steak sando with chimichur cream with fries. They got incredible meals. Al and I both been using this. Home Chef brings fresh ingredients, an easy Chef design recipe straight to your door to make dinner simpler. Users of the leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality, convenience, value, taste and recipe ease. From classic kits with pre measured ingredients to 30 minute meals, to oven ready trays, microwave options, and a family menu, Home Chef's got dinner covered without the hassle. Home chef has over 30 options a week and serves a variety of dietary needs. And it helps your wallet too. And I know you guys are going to love that. Home Chef customers save about $86 a month on groceries. So when meal planning slips down the list, check out Home Chef's new five ingredient meals. Super easy recipes that only need five fresh prepped ingredients. So for a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping off your first box, plus free dessert for life. Go to homechef.com unashamed that's home chef.com unashamed for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. Home chef.com unashamed must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert.

[Al]

I was thinking, Jason, you were quoting Paul that, you know, wouldn't it, you know, you kind of read in the scripture about Peter and Paul having a couple of, you know, they both mention each other in, in their letters that, you know, obviously there was interaction there, which you would expect. But you never read anything about John and Paul's conversations. But you know, they had to have them because when you read Paul's letters, this things, these things we've been studying in John are so prevalent when they come out with this light and, and transformation. I mean, it's just, I would have loved to have been like sitting in a conversation with those two as they're just talking about, because, you know, I mean, all of Paul's stuff comes later, sort of this direct revelation from Jesus. But then, you know, he was curious with those conversations with the guys that actually spent the three years with him, you know.

[Zach]

Well, I noticed in your notes when you had that about transformation, and I was like, where's he getting this from? Yeah, I started reading the text and I was like. But I realized that you put it there when he said, he'll be your guide.

[Al]

Yes.

[Zach]

He will guide you into all truth without thought. Okay, good point, Al.

[Al]

And you know what I thought about, Jess? I thought about back to Paul, Romans 12:1 and 2. You know, that word is what I thought about. Because he says, I urge you, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God. This is your spiritual act of worship. That idea again about being a temple. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of the world. That's the blind side. But be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you'll be able to test and prove what God's will is, his good, pleasing, perfect will. So you have to have a guide to get there. And I think about everything on the, on the front side of this conversation is transactional. Everything in life is transactions of good, bad, whatever. Where transformational life is so different because it produces something that you couldn't produce without the spirit.

[Jason]

Well, that's a great point. Because if you think about the context of what you just read that to offer your bodies as a spirit, isn't that what you just read off? Your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God? This is your spiritual act of worship. So the discernment, you'll be able to discern what is good from what is evil. Because that's the problem. How do we know what is good and what is evil? Once we ate of that fruit of the knowledge of the tree of good and evil, it became difficult for us to really distinguish between the two do, because the lies of the evil one are so good. And so when you think about the connection to that, well, okay, that's my transformation, my sanctification, if you will. My sanctification is that I'm progressively freed from the power and the grip that sin has over my life. Well, how did I do that? Well, I start to be able to understand and see what's good and what's evil. So the things that used to have power over me don't. Why? Because now I know that I see them for what they are. Reality, illumination, light. Well, then what's the connection to worship? Well, that's actually to offer your bodies as a living Sacrifice, that's your spiritual act of worship. But then you go back right to John, chapter four. Well, where do we worship at? She says, on the mountain where our people worship, or in Jerusalem? And Jesus says, I'm here to tell you that a time has now come, in fact is now here, that you'll need to worship me on that mountain, nor in Jerusalem. Now the Father wants people who will worship him in truth and spirit. And so that idea that God's going to send his Spirit to live in us, and in us, we will become a spring. There will be a spring inside of us welling up to eternal life. That's the Spirit. So everything kind of coincides here. Everything that we're teaching about the kingdom, everything that we're teaching about the temple, our bodies being the temple of the Holy Spirit, that it's all about the transformation. And I think it's a good message for the world right now, which is so divided in so many possible ways. But like, we all have to come into the conversation with at least saying, I could be wrong, and I probably am wrong in a lot. But it's the Spirit in our alignment with the Spirit that will transform us over time to where we can actually have these things that we later find out from Paul are really what we're looking for. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self control. Against such things, there is no law. And that's the goal. That's the goal of the transformation, is to get out from under law and into covenant relationship and to live inside covenant relationship. Well, why? Well, because the inner nature of God is a relationship that's unadulterated and that's what we're being grafted back into. That's what we're being transformed back into.

[Zach]

I think that's what Romans 8 is all about. Yep, I agree when he says, therefore there's now no condemnation, for those who are in Christ Jesus. Because through Christ Jesus, the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin, of sin and death. And he goes on, you know, to say he gets into. When he gets to verse five, he starts talking about the mind set on what the nature desires versus those who live in accordance with the Spirit. They have their minds set or controlled, some translations say. So I looked up that Greek word, which is basically a mindset. It's like the same verse is used when it says, your attitude should be that of Christ Jesus in Philippians 2, who did not consider equality with God son to be grass, but made himself nothing. But that your mindset it's all over the New Testament, but it is a relational. And when you think about the transformation that happens in the new creation, kind of like what I read in Ephesians 4, where you have this idea of Jesus entered this world to save us. He showed who he is. He dies on a cross he's raised, we surrender to him and reenact that death, burial, and resurrection. He gives us his spirit, and then we become a new creation. Well, the reason I'm bringing up creation, because when you think, well, what is the spirit? Which we haven't really discussed, which would be a hard thing to explain. And I've seen people explain it, like, you know, put your hand in front of you and breathe, you know, because the spirit is sometimes depicted as light, wind, breath, or wind or fire, right? But I think when you go back to Genesis 1, the first two verses, and you see the earth was formless and empty. It says chaos or. Or darkness was over, and the Holy Spirit was hovering over the waters. And then God said, let there be light, and boom. You know, creation order happens. Creation starts. And the Holy Spirit was involved. And you're like, is that the same Spirit that's coming inside of us? And I'm like, yes. Because when you make the spiritual application to what happened in the physical creation, the emptiness, darkness, chaos, you know, in our lives, I think it. I think it makes. Makes sense. And so at when. When I saw that transformation, that's what I thought. I thought, you know, God created the earth. He created everything. And then we had this transformational element. But the more I got to thinking about it, I thought, well, what is air? And so I googled, I want to read this to you because I found this fascinating. I told y' all I didn't have anything to offer today, but now I'm fixed to read. I thought this was fascinating.

[Al]

I knew there was a rabbit hole somewhere in here.

[Zach]

AI generated answer into my question. Let me see what exactly what my question was. Where did air come from? That's what I asked. Because I'm thinking this breathing, this is.

[Al]

A throwback to fail. This is something like dad would say.

[Zach]

Well, you remember John, like, the Holy Spirit is like the wind. You see the strength, the breath. He breathed on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. He breathed in. It was hovering over the waters. This. Whatever this wind was, it's like a.

[Al]

Dove descending on him.

[Zach]

Like a dove.

[Al]

Yeah, like a dove, whatever that meant.

[Zach]

And so listen to this definition. This is not a Christian generated definition. You heard the question, where did air come From. All right, so allow me to read this. Air on Earth originated from the gases present when the solar system formed and was later transformed by geological processes and life. Did you get that?

[Al]

I got that.

[Zach]

That sounds like they stole that from the biblical narrative. They just left. They don't focus who formed it and who transformed. It made me think. And the more I read now, look, it's a lot more than that. And they get into. And I don't declare to be a scientist, but at some point, the question will become who actually formed that? Where did these guesses come from? These kinds of questions. But I thought that was fascinating that people who don't even believe in God, they basically said when life happened, it transformed.

[Al]

Yeah, I like that.

[Zach]

The atmosphere. So our air became better. And I'm like, what if life came first, this spirit giving life through a declaration, and then the transformation of the atmosphere happened. They just have the cart before the horse. But isn't that something that even if you weren't a believer, they can't get around to something being formed and transformed so that life could. Could exist?

[Jason]

So Rocket Money's been an interesting app for me. I love using it to help me cancel my unwanted subscriptions. I didn't realize I had double subscriptions and ones that I forgot that I subscribed to. But it also dings me and alerts me anytime one of my bills goes up, which I love, because a lot of times you get an increase in your bill and you don't even know it. Rocket Money what it is, It's a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It helps monitor your spending, and it helps you lower your bill so that you can grow your savings. I've been using this now for, I guess maybe a year or so, and it has been absolutely amazing. I discovered when I first started using it that I had several subscriptions that I was paying for. Some of them, one of them in particular, I was paying for. Three different times, the same actual service. Rocket Money can actually cancel your subscription for you. That would otherwise be tricky and time consuming if you were to do it yourself. And Rocket Money helped me cancel two of the three. So now I'm about to. I'm back to one subscription. Rocket Money's dashboard gives me a clear view of my expenses all across my accounts that can create personalized budgets to help keep my spending on track. Plus, the new goals features automatically saves you money. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. They'll deal with the customer service teams so you don't have to. Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved. Listen to this. A total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com Unashamed today that's RocketMoney.com Unashamed RocketMoney.com Unashamed another reason why it's difficult when you ask the question. We do have to ask the question. We would say, what is it? We say, who is he? According to scripture, the Spirit has a pronoun, and the pronoun is not it, because that would be a pronoun that would refer to an impersonal entity. And so the. That's what's so complex about it. Because I think that this conversation is that Christ is talking about a person that he's going to send, not a force, not simply. We use the word Holy Ghost. And when I grew up, that was the word you'd use, the Holy Ghost. But we are talking about a person. We are not talking about an impersonal force or energy that enters into a space. I mean, this is an actual person that will live in us. That is probably the most profound thing. Because what he says, he didn't say, when the Spirit comes, it will glorify me. In John 16:14, what does he say? He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine. Therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. So what you're seeing in the very nature of God is you are seeing three persons, three centers of consciousness. You think, what does that mean? Well, you sit and you try to. Are you aware of yourself like we're aware of ourselves? So there's three centers of self awareness inside the Godhead. And Christ is sending you a person. So whatever transformation that the Spirit's bringing, which you mentioned it at the very beginning of the Scriptures, that is a transformation that is in line with the will of the Father. So the Father has a will that is being implemented. This is not random. There's no even the transformation of our own hearts, the transformation of our own desire, desires, that's intentional. There's an intentional direction. And that's what I think you see when you look at the freedom that we experience in Christ. The reason why we experience freedom is because through the Spirit, our wills are realigned. To match and align up with the will of the Father. Another way of saying that is our affections are reordered, our desires are re indexed. What we want changes to be what God wants. And as you walk in the Spirit and submit to the Spirit, you come in line with what he wants. And so that line from the Westminster Confession or the Greater Catechism that basically says that the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. So the enjoyment of God is not on a different track with glorifying him in the Spirit. These two things come together. And so now all of a sudden, living for Christ, submitting to the Spirit. It's not a buzz kill at all. Living by the Spirit. No, actually, this is the good life. Glorifying God is the good life. But you can never understand that in your natural state. In your natural state, in your sinful state, you can't understand the things of the Spirit. You can't understand the wonderful things that God has prepared for those who love Him. But through the Spirit, that He has revealed them and is revealing them to us to the extent that we submit to Him.

[Zach]

Zach, we're tracking. We may play phone tag all day, but we're tracking.

[Jason]

If you think me and Jace are always disagreeing, agree on the essentials.

[Zach]

You ready for my next AI search? That I did.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I went to fire. Here's what I typed in. What is fire? Real deep. The. This is not. I didn't make this up. I didn't know. Zach was just fixed to say what he just said. You ready? The fire triangle. And there's a little picture of a triangle. Sound familiar? Hang on, let your mind think about that. We have a triangle which. What is a triangle? There's three sides here. The fire triangle illustrates that for a fire to start and be sustained, you need a fuel. So in parentheses, they have a burnable material. Material. I'm thinking the word became flesh. He became perishable. Next, you need oxygen, which is from the air. Oh, we've already gone through that. Sounds like a spiritual component. And you need a heat. And in parentheses, an ignition source. Ooh. In the beginning, God created. I think I found the source. I feel like I'm dealing with three persons here. Just getting the definition of fire from artificial intelligence. That is not giving a Christian angle to this.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

When these materials are present, the heat causes the fuel to break down into hot gases, which react with the air, producing the flames, heat. And the light. We see just throwing that out there.

[Al]

Isn't it amazing? That keeps coming back. As I talked about earlier, this idea of what you see in the creation, the revelation, I mean jc, they just keep going back to it.

[Zach]

So here's my point in bringing this up. Either John was the greatest physicist, scientist, biologist, whatever, ologist you want to stick on there.

[Al]

A first century commercial fisherman by the.

[Zach]

Way, how is he used to using these analogies of just air breath fire in the Bible way back then when we didn't have artificial intelligence? So was he just getting lucky or 2,000 years later? When you're just reading basic definitions of the things we take for granted, do you not see some kind of godly component to who he is and what's been created it?

[Jason]

That's right. Yeah. Well, I think, and I think that when you, the analogies always kind of fall apart until you, because they, they, they, they, they can take you so far. But then you're also like, but God's a different kind of fire. And when you were saying that and you're reading that definition, I could not help but think of the burning bush. And I'm like, you have God in a burning bush, but the Bible says the bush was not being consumed.

[Al]

Yeah, he's his own fire.

[Jason]

He's his own fire. So God's the fire that God is. He doesn't need, he doesn't need any material. He just burns. The flame is eternal. It's an eternal flame on a bush that's not needing the bush to fuel its fire, which like a fire that just burns without any fuel. I mean, what is that?

[Zach]

Who is that?

[Jason]

That's God. But then the Bible also says that God is an all consuming fire. So in one sense the fire doesn't need anything to consume, to burn. But in the other sense he says, don't come any closer. Moses, take off your sandals because the ground you're standing on is holy ground. I'm thinking, who is this God that we serve? Right.

[Zach]

Yeah. He only had to tell him that once.

[Jason]

That's true. He got the invitation on Mount Sinai, but he got the invitation, you can come up, but you better tell everybody else to stop. Don't come any further.

[Zach]

That's where the phrase was invented without it being reflected, recorded. There's a God and I'm not him.

[Al]

Exactly. And if you get anywhere near him, you'll glow. You'll, you'll literally, your, your face will glow. Well, we're almost out of time. But this is fascinating because it is what Jesus is telling the disciples, that now they're going to be those witnesses to go out. In other words, now you're going to take this from me as I've taken from the father and given to you. And I've always looked at it like the clarity that you need is just look at yourself. You say, is the spirit real? Is your spirit real? Yeah, you. You have one.

[Zach]

And to sum it up, do you realize this is living inside of you?

[Al]

Exactly. Just as yours is. So, anyway, more to pick up. We will hit the last part of chapter 16, hopefully next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.