← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1175 | Jase Gets a Peek Behind the Scenes of “The Chosen” Season 6 & Why Faith Is Hard in Hollywood
01:01:26
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- [00:00]
Jase Robertson
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Dallas Jenkins
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Jase Robertson
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- [00:12]
Dallas Jenkins
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- [00:17]
Jase Robertson
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- [00:20]
Dallas Jenkins
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- [00:29]
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- [01:00]
Willie Robertson
I am unashamed.
- [01:02]
Dallas Jenkins
What about you?
- [01:05]
Jase Robertson
Welcome back to Unashamed. Now we have the reason why we came to Nashville. Do you realize you're. You're why we're here, Dallas.
- [01:13]
Dallas Jenkins
So excited to hear that.
- [01:15]
Willie Robertson
You started a series of events that you're like, I'm going to be in Nashville.
- [01:19]
Dallas Jenkins
Well, I'm going to be in Nashville. We're doing a couple of interviews while we're here. And hey, we've been. We've done this before in Nashville.
- [01:26]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, but we did, Zach and I. Were you part of that?
- [01:30]
Guest or Additional Commentator
What part?
- [01:30]
Jase Robertson
The part where they were Nashville. I wasn't there.
- [01:33]
Willie Robertson
Yeah, I came.
- [01:34]
Jase Robertson
So I was the one that got left out. You got left out? I got left out, Dallas. But you included me this time.
- [01:39]
Dallas Jenkins
You took the show to Nashville, and so we're here.
- [01:42]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [01:42]
Dallas Jenkins
Last time you're here, I said, hey, I'd love to see you, too.
- [01:45]
Jase Robertson
Well, you know, the. The. Our audience, Dallas, is the reason why we found the Chosen, because we had not watched it yet, and we kept getting these, like, you know, emails and stuff from our listeners, and they're like, have you seen the Chosen? Why aren't y' all talking about the Chosen? I was like, what is that? What is that? We are the Chose. You know, I didn't know what they were doing. There was another show. You got to check it out. And around the same time, a mutual friend of ours, a fellow McClure, sent me your number and said, you need to meet this guy. Y' all need to connect because y' all are on the same wavelength, because, you know him from L. A or something. And so I reached out. I'm like, I don't know. We're a family. We used to be on tv. And you're like. And then I didn't hear from you for, like, two days. And then you sent one back back and says, oh, I know who you are, of course. Because, I mean, I didn't know. You just assumed. Yeah. Yeah.
- [02:30]
Willie Robertson
Well, meanwhile, my wife, what she was punching me for, because she was watching the Chosen.
- [02:36]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [02:37]
Willie Robertson
And was like, you need to watch this. But I. I just thought. What? I thought, like, al. And so finally, when they started coming.
- [02:44]
Jase Robertson
Together, because I was like, what is. And they said, oh, yeah, it's crowdfunded. And, you know, it's out there and on the Internet first. And I thought, oh, yeah, you know.
- [02:51]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah. No, I say 80% of our viewers started reluctant.
- [02:54]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [02:55]
Dallas Jenkins
You know, like, either concerned it wouldn't be biblically faithful or concerned it would be cheesy or concerned it was low. Just. Just weren't.
- [03:03]
Willie Robertson
You know, I'm guilty of all those things. That's why I wasn't as excited. But I should have trusted my wife, my best friend, because she said, no, it's not cheesy. This is good. And then I finally watched it, and I thought, this is incredible. This is awesome. So.
- [03:17]
Dallas Jenkins
But we love you guys and love what you're doing and love this podcast. And I think this is my third time on, because. And we were talking about this before, just this morning, when we connected is what we do, in our opinion, is a baton handoff to what you do. And what I want to do, too. And what my wife does, because my wife heads up our Bible studies and our devotional books that we do for each season is when you know and love Jesus more, what's next? Well, you want to worship or you want to be discipled? You want to dig in deeper? We're not going to be watching TV shows in heaven. We know that the chosen is not the end game.
- [03:55]
Jase Robertson
That's right.
- [03:56]
Dallas Jenkins
The chosen is not the thing. The chosen is designed to point a spotlight towards the thing and to illuminate the thing. And we sometimes hear the phrase, oh, watch the chosen. And then the Bible came to life for me. And I always say, okay, well, no, Bible's always been alive. Sometimes a show or a song or a. Or a podcast can bring us to life a little more so that the Bible then becomes even more enriching and more. And maybe it sticks more because I think sometimes people are afraid to admit this, but sometimes you open up the Bible with no context and you go, I don't get this verse. This is. We were just talking about it again before. We can. We can talk about it today, too. About the term apostle. I didn't actually know until I started making the Chosen, and. And I sat down to write the scene where Jesus sends out the apostles two by two and delineates between apostles and disciples that the apostle means one who is sent. So I'm like, okay, that's an opportunity to put that into the show and give people some context. But if I would have read it without knowing that, I would have missed out on that. So the idea of what we might refer to as extra biblical, it doesn't mean non biblical, but it means we're going to find some context, explore some cultural context, historical context, and yes, even occasionally artistic imagination in an effort to go deeper into God's Word. So that's a long way around just saying, I love what you guys do.
- [05:24]
Guest or Additional Commentator
It's what anybody does when they teach or preach the Word. I mean, it's extra biblical. If I'm pastoring and I'm teaching a sermon, I mean, it is not the actual word of God that I'm saying. I'm pontificating.
- [05:34]
Dallas Jenkins
No pastors get up and just read the Bible and then sit down and go, thank you for coming today. Right, let's unpack it. Let's go deeper. And there are things that, A, we don't know just from reading it, because we don't have a history book with us either. So someone needs to help open that up for us. B, as a pastor, as a shepherd, someone called by God to help lead and unpack, I might have some insights into this passage through my study, through my calling, through my prayer time, that might illuminate something for you that you might not otherwise have illuminated. And that's the goal of what we do. And I just like to lead with that, especially coming onto a podcast like yours that is so rooted in the Word. I know there's people who sometimes go, oh, it's a TV show. It's got stuff in it that's not from the Bible. Can I trust it? Should I be consuming this? Could I be confused? And whether or not there's agreement on whether you should watch the Chosen or not is not up to me. But I would say that you should know that the creator of the show and my wife and I, who are tasked with stewarding this thing and our Bible studies that result from it, we believe that the Bible is perfect and enriching, and our whole goal is to point people towards it, and we have no desire to do anything other than that. And so we're never wanting to contradict it, never wanting to create a new gospel. It's just a TV show. And I just want people to know that. That they can trust that I'm not. At the very least, I'm rooting my writing of the show in scripture and in prayer and in boundaries that have been set for us by some of our theological scholars, all who believe that the Bible is perfect.
- [07:07]
Jase Robertson
But I think the first time you were on the. I said this, I'm not sure, but we viewed our reality TV show very similar. In other words, it was our lives. It was our. And most of our storylines on Duck Dynasty were our childhood stories, like things we had done and experienced. And then you kind of saw them play out through Jason Willie as adults doing these things. They did. And so. But it wasn't a religious show. It wasn't a. It was made to entertain.
- [07:37]
Willie Robertson
Except for the prayer. Except for the prayer, which we were not realizing the power of that we thought we. We would, like.
- [07:47]
Jase Robertson
Dad just said in the moment. He just said, well, you know, we prayed. The director was like. He imagined it being like the end of Dukes of Hazard, where, you know, someone, you know, does a. Waylon Jennings does a voiceover. We're all just sitting around talking about how rednecks live. But dad was like, Mr. Director, we pray before we eat. And that's how the prayer got started.
- [08:05]
Willie Robertson
Well, I think when we had the first meeting, we had a prayer, and the guy said, do you. How often do y' all do this? And of course, my dad, in his style is like, what. How often we do this? Three times a day, not counting other prayers during the day, but we get together as a family, crying out loud. And so the. The director said, I think we should make this a part of the show. He's like. My dad was like, yeah, think this is what America needs.
- [08:36]
Jase Robertson
But so the show, the idea was through stories, through a family, through whatever. Our greater goal was always to talk Jesus to people. But that wasn't the venue of that television show. That was great. And we get to do that. We travel, we speak, we write books. We have all these opportunities, which I told you, I think that's the brilliant thing about the way you approach the chosen from the beginning, I love the idea of thinking about storylines about the people around Jesus. How would they have been impacted? What would they have been like? Because we. We Study this. And there's so many questions about that because we're just so zeroed in on this. And so I'm, I, I love the show.
- [09:17]
Willie Robertson
Well, I was going to say, I mean, my mentor, I mean, I had a life changing moment one time just in my theological studies, because a guy I really thought a lot of just summed up, you know, 62nd little, little speech that said the Bible's about Jesus. That. And you know, he was using Hebrews 1, the first three or four verses as kind of the template of that. You know, in these last days, God has spoken to us through his Son. He chose to reveal himself as a human. And he made this little statement. He said, genesis to Malachi is saying he's coming to the earth. Matthew to John, he's here. Somebody put it in red letters so you can see when he talked in acts of the revelation, he's coming back. And for some moment, for some reason in that moment, I just thought, the Bible's about Jesus. How simple is this? You know, if you want to know what God is like, know what Jesus is like. But Jesus echoed that because I want to read this. When we were in John 5, which a lot like your show and a lot like our show, which was not a Jesus show, but people would see the spirit of God living in people in a silly show and were drawn to it for some reason. I mean, how many times have you heard that when I'm in a. They're like, for some reason I was drawn. There was something there. And now I say with confidence, you were drawn to the spirit of God in us. It was not about us. It was never about us. That was the draw.
- [10:58]
Dallas Jenkins
And.
- [10:58]
Willie Robertson
But what I was going to say is with your show and our show, we, we get the most pushback from religious people. Which reminds me, I'm sure Dallas doesn't get while I'm setting up reading this passage, which reminds me of Jesus's ministry. Who did he have the most arguments with? People that believed in the same God. But he said in, in John 5 and he's having an argument and he says, you diligently study. This is 39, John 5, 39. You diligently study the Scriptures, which. He's talking about the Old Testament scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. Well, if you just stop right there, you would think, well, yeah, it's the word of God. And he says, these are the scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. Which proves my point about that little Genesis To Malachi. I'm coming. We got that from Jesus in John 5. He said that was about me. Let me sum it up for you. He didn't give you all the details of all the stories. He's just like, it was about me coming and I'm here. Why don't you come to me and have life?
- [12:17]
Jase Robertson
So you know, we love talking about food. It's always been a big thing in our life, our family. And so I'm super excited about our new sponsor, Wild Alaskan company. They are the real deal. We're excited to have them as a sponsor. So they sent me a box jays and in the box it was full of fish. It was Pacific cod, it was sockeye salmon and coho salmon, Pacific halibut, all fish that I love. And we took and put it on the smoker. It was fantastic. It was so good. Everything is 100% wild caught, not farm, just like when we fish from the river. So there's no antibiotics, GMOs or additives, just clean, real fish. Shipments are flexible and Wild Alaskan is delivered right to your door in a perfectly portioned six ounce package. Which works perfect for me. That's what I can eat on my diet. So if you're not much of a cook, they give you also expert tips. It's full of nutrients. It tastes great because it's frozen right off the boat to lock in the flavor, texture and good stuff like omega threes. And here's something that's really cool. The fish in your combo box varies each month because they only fish for species that are abundant. We love that they want to protect wildlife and that sustainability is such a priority. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan company will give you a full refund. No questions asked, no risk, just high quality seafood. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildatlaskan.com unashamed for $35 off your first bo box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com unashamed For 35 off your first order.
- [14:01]
Willie Robertson
So I think what you're doing is way better than our TV show because you're actually. Well, they're all different. They all have different, they have different purposes and reasons. And I'm because I thought, oh, they're going to show the spirit of God. The problem was the Hollywood group that we were working with didn't get that memo. So the first episode came out, had my sister in law being bleeped. Like she was saying, using Profanity. And I thought.
- [14:28]
Jase Robertson
And we're all sitting at the watch party and everybody looks at Corey like, what did you say? And she was like, I don't know.
- [14:34]
Willie Robertson
And I thought, corey, I've never heard you say a cuss word in your life. Why would you pick this show? I've known her since she was 7, 8 years old.
- [14:43]
Dallas Jenkins
Millions of people before you cussed to your daughter.
- [14:45]
Willie Robertson
Exactly. But look, we were all sitting around looking at her and she said, I think they just did that, trying to be funny to say I said a cuss word. She said, I do not say a four letter word. And we're like, what? My dad was like, I'll take care of this, you know, but isn't that weird how they put that spin on it? Which later, I mean, it took a few years, but they actually at some point took the bleeps out and let her say what she said. Because we kept making a big deal of it. Like on podcasts like I'm doing right now, I'm like, why would you do that?
- [15:19]
Jase Robertson
And then the second season, they had the dust up because they were cutting in Jesus name when dad would say the prayer. And you know, and it's not that you have to say that, but it, you know, it got under dad's skin. So he's watching and said, why, why are they, why are they cutting that? So he asked somebody, he's like, so why are they cutting that? Well, let me get to somebody, you know, everybody's got to talk to somebody else and find that. Well, the explanation back then was we're not sure. There's a lot of people that love this show and we don't want to make it too preachy. And so dad doesn't say anything. And then the next family prayer, he goes off in a prayer on all this heathen us bunch you sent here from la. And I pray that they don't burn from.
- [15:56]
Willie Robertson
Oh my goodness.
- [15:57]
Jase Robertson
He did the whole thing in a prayer. And then he says, and they'll probably cut this, but in Jesus name, amen. And everybody in the family looks up, everybody's laughing at the table.
- [16:05]
Willie Robertson
Well, he knew they were never going to run it. His prayer was about the people.
- [16:09]
Guest or Additional Commentator
Of course you're not doing either one of this right? You're not bleeping or taking the name of Jesus.
- [16:14]
Dallas Jenkins
There are no beliefs in the chosen.
- [16:17]
Jase Robertson
By the way they put it back in after that. So it worked for him.
- [16:20]
Dallas Jenkins
But Jesus's name is quite common in the show. Well, that brings me, here's what's really funny though really quickly is Dog the Bounty Hunter actually when he did his reality show said we pray and I demand that you keep in. In Jesus name. So he goes, he just said, I demand like we. I'll do the show if you include our pre.
- [16:39]
Guest or Additional Commentator
Here's my non negotiable prayer.
- [16:41]
Dallas Jenkins
And you don't cut. And I don't know. He might have known that you guys had said I don't know.
- [16:45]
Jase Robertson
But I know he had talked to.
- [16:47]
Dallas Jenkins
Well, he demanded that. It's like you just have to include the whole prayer. Yeah, well, it's just interesting.
- [16:51]
Willie Robertson
I was going to ask you a question, but before I ask because you brought up a good point because that's mentioned. Jesus mentions that in John 17, which is where we're currently at and which is ironically kind of where you're at in the Chosen because season five, which is the last completed season. That's kind of where you left off up until the point of Jesus being arrested.
- [17:15]
Dallas Jenkins
Well, yeah. And in fact episode one of season five opens with John 17 and it kind of disorients people a little bit because like whoa, why are we already at the end of the Last Supper? What's going on here? And we play out the Last Supper over the course of the whole season and we actually play it in in reverse because there were themes from, I mean the Last Supper. When you look at John's gospel of it, the chat, multiple chapters, it is so dense and so filled with truth bombs that to just kind of pack it all into one episode and just play it out and we just like, it's just too much. So we spread it out and then also tied some of the themes from each moment from the Last Supper into moments in the episodes. But yeah, season five actually opens with a portion of this high priestly prayer from John 17.
- [18:04]
Willie Robertson
And that's what I was going to ask you. In that section he talks about the name. There's somewhere.
- [18:10]
Dallas Jenkins
This is embarrassing. I'm bringing out my. My Bible, which is on my phone.
- [18:14]
Willie Robertson
Which I've already traveled.
- [18:15]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah. And you've already tried the. The bling on this.
- [18:18]
Jase Robertson
It's like something of a Jules Verne.
- [18:21]
Dallas Jenkins
It's so obnoxious and my wife is so embarrassed by it. It's. It. I got it because it's got this thing on the back.
- [18:27]
Jase Robertson
Oh, see, there's the photo. Oh yeah.
- [18:29]
Dallas Jenkins
And I meant to order the. The black case and it came in gold and I. For a, for a 50 year old father, this.
- [18:42]
Jase Robertson
Looks like you should be wearing like a White velvet tracksuit with a phone like that.
- [18:46]
Dallas Jenkins
No, no, no. There's nothing on Brand about this for me. I apologize to anyone.
- [18:51]
Willie Robertson
Well, now I'm actually looking where he used that reference about the name, and I can't find it in. Oh, here it is. It's in verse 11 where he says, I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world. Now he's praying for his disciples. And I am coming to you, Holy Father. Protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one. Which I went down a rabbit hole, which we commonly do on this podcast. I'm trying to make a point that if you go to John 17 and would try to do, I would say eight. So y' all have eight episodes per season. You're. You're not going to be able to go down all the rabbit holes of. Of this. Just this prayer.
- [19:40]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah.
- [19:40]
Jase Robertson
Well, how long have we been in these? Four times.
- [19:43]
Willie Robertson
Well, 1000. We've done 1200 episodes with the podcast. You can.
- [19:48]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [19:49]
Willie Robertson
What do y'.
- [19:49]
Jase Robertson
All.
- [19:49]
Willie Robertson
What do you do when you're.
- [19:50]
Guest or Additional Commentator
When you're. When you're coming up with a season? How do you guys structure? How do you decide what's, like, what's going to go in there?
- [19:56]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah. And. And I'll start with that, and then I'll go into. To this specific prayer, because we don't include the whole prayer in the show, and I'll explain why. But when we go into. Well, I'll take you back quickly. I won't spend too much time on this. But to 2017, when we first came up with the idea to do the show, and I had done this short film about the birth of Christ and got this opportunity. So we're like, all right, I brought in two co writers, and I'm like, let's kind of map out where we're going here. And so we knew we would do seven seasons, and we always start with stories from the Bible. So we go, okay, we know where this is going to end. Season 7 will be our resurrection season, and we'll explore kind of what happens after that. And when the apostles are sent out to the world and we worked our way backwards from there. So then within each season, like, so season five is Holy Week. We knew that was going to cover Holy Week. So then we go into the scripture and we look at these stories and we go, okay, we know where season five is going to end, which is Jesus Arrest. We know that we are going to cover The Last Supper. We go dig into the Last Supper. We start looking for things that are cinematic because, again, it is a TV show. It's not a documentary, it's not a church service. We are like, wait, this needs to be entertaining. It needs to be artistic. So we're like, what are some of our ways in artistically and emotionally? And you start reading it and you see how dense it is. And we go, okay, that's why we need to maybe spread this out a little bit. We find different themes. I mean, Jesus in the Gospels. Our operating assumption is that, John, that the chapters that cover the Last Supper don't cover everything that they said at the Last Supper, Last Supper. They were probably there for a couple hours. We know through Jewish history and Jewish context that they would have done multiple different practices for their Passover meal and liturgy that aren't in Scripture. So we learn what those are and you go, oh, that's really interesting. Oh, so how now can we see this through the lens of human beings? Not stained glass windows or statues or biblical figures who at the time weren't.
- [22:09]
Jase Robertson
Biblical figures, just guys.
- [22:11]
Dallas Jenkins
They were guys following Jesus. Didn't know. Didn't know the books that they would be writing or that would be written about them. Didn't know they were going to be stained glass windows. They're trying to figure it out. They had no idea what was coming. They had no idea that when Jesus was speaking about his death and resurrection, that he was talking literally. Because sometimes he wasn't talking literally, sometimes he was speaking in metaphor. So you read all this and you're going, all right, if I was one of them. And I certainly, as Jesus even says in the Gospels, didn't understand he was going to die. And Jesus even said, you're not going to understand this now. I'm just telling you now so that when it happens, you can believe that I knew what I was doing and that this was all part of it. And they were like, yes, okay, thank you. Now, who's going to sit on your right and left hand when you get to heaven? I mean, they were just so clueless. And you think you read the scripture going, how could they be so clueless? He was saying it plainly. So that became the big. To answer your question, how do we structure it? We try to come at it from a human perspective. Once we get the storylines from the scriptures that kind of are our touch points that we want to hit, then we just come at it from a human perspective and go, what would a human being.
- [23:14]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [23:15]
Dallas Jenkins
Who was in the middle of this, who loved Jesus so much. What would these words have meant to.
- [23:19]
Guest or Additional Commentator
Them without hindsight 20 20, when we.
- [23:21]
Dallas Jenkins
Know for a fact that they didn't get it. Yeah. So they got later, oh, my goodness. They gave up their lives for it. They were so passionate about it. They understood it so well. They went and told the whole world and they wrote it down. And we have this that we can now do podcasts like this to explore it. At the time, they had no clue. So how do we make it understandable to a modern audience? And how do we wrestle with it ourselves? So that's where we start. So now, John 17, for example, is this immensely dense prayer that has so many theological rabbit holes that you can go down, that we go, you know what? I'm not sure a television show is the best place, because if Jesus says a couple of handful of verses here that an entire sermon could be talked about. How do we dip our toe into that water and then leave you there without turning this into one big sermon? So there's some things that we just go. There's so much theological richness in here that we're going to hint at it, we're going to start it, but we're going to ultimately hope that the viewer goes, got a taste of it there? Where can I get the full thing? And the full thing is in the scripture. And I just don't. I'm just hesitant to try to solve every theological puzzle that can come in the course of an episode of television.
- [24:43]
Willie Robertson
Well, it's like twice in this prayer by Jesus, which makes you. Immediately, when you read the whole prayer a couple of times, you realize that our prayer lives are pretty weak. I mean, this is like. But he refers back to being with the Father before the beginning of time. And then he gets to the end and he's like, my prayer is that they can be included and have the love that I had you before the beginning of time. Well, I'm thinking if you're going to make a show about that now, how are you going to go back to the beginning of time? Wrap your head around on what that looked like? Well, it's impossible. And any attempt would be so cheesy that people would be like, what are you trying to say here? It's almost beyond human comprehension, what he's actually talking about.
- [25:41]
Jase Robertson
So Lisa and I are in our busy season of travel. We're about to hit several events in a row for pro life, and it's a big part of all of our lives. We all kind of approach this in different ways. In terms of kind of the battle. And so, you know, we love going out and talking about the importance of life. Lisa had an abortion when she was 16 years old. And, you know, one of the things that motivates her is, you know, we have to stay engaged now because 3,000 babies are aborted every single day. And so we have to be talking about it. We have to be telling people the, you know, why you shouldn't do this. And it's an atrocity. Someday history is going to look back on this period of our history and say, man, what a, what a terrible time. Because one in four pregnancies are ending an abortion, which is terrible. We can do something about it. And our good friends at preborn network clinics are doing something about it. They're on the front lines. They're meeting women in their darkest hour. They're loving them, and they're helping them choose life. This year alone, over 38,000 babies have been rescued, and we praise God for that. The ultrasound, which is that simple moment when a mother sees her baby, is the real game changer. It literally doubles a baby's chance to live. So let me ask you, if you could do something about what's going on, would you do it? And the answer is, you can. Right now, just $28 provides a life saving ultrasound. Go to preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed. or you can dial £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250, baby. Together we can end this tragedy one mother, one baby at a time.
- [27:27]
Dallas Jenkins
All right, well, let me just give you a quick sneak peek of season six, which we just finished filming. We do explore some of what you're talking about, because to explain even the crucifixion and to understand why Jesus would willingly do some of this, we have a scene where John and Mary Magdalene are saying to him while he's on the cross, like, why does it have.
- [27:50]
Willie Robertson
To be like, is this a spoiler alert?
- [27:52]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah, I'm not going to give away too much. I'm just saying Jesus gives these breadcrumbs and hints from Isaiah and in many ways from the beginning of time that are precursors to the crucifixion. And so to your point, you are correct to try to just fit this all into one episode and try to have him explain it all. It would either A, be impossible to fully capture or B, it would just be, you might as well just sit through a sermon. I mean, why rely on television to do that? So My point is we had to spread that out over multiple episodes, multiple seasons, even the theology of what Jesus did and why he came. Because otherwise, if that's all we did as the TV show was just portray it, strictly portray it, and nothing else. That can be confusing too. So we try to find this middle ground between just a fun television show showing you what happened and a Bible study, which will come hopefully after watching the show. But we're trying to find that middle ground.
- [28:58]
Willie Robertson
So you're having. I mean, I think he was kind of curious because I am too. So you have, you have to have some kind of theological meetings with people saying, now what are we going to do? Highlight from the biblical side. Then you have a whole nother task of doing the cinematography side, which I know about that. Which is a full time job.
- [29:19]
Dallas Jenkins
Yes, I know.
- [29:21]
Willie Robertson
So trying to balance that would seem like a pretty big challenge.
- [29:24]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah, no, it is. And so that just. We'll just take John 17 for an example.
- [29:27]
Willie Robertson
I mean, do you all argue like lovingly? Like, I'm like, are you sitting around in a room saying, I mean, we got.
- [29:35]
Guest or Additional Commentator
I would assume you're trying to keep this broad enough to appeal to the, to the global church. You're not really. You guys aren't getting into like a. Yeah. So you're trying to keep it just generous Orthodoxy, Nicene Creed, kind of.
- [29:48]
Dallas Jenkins
Yes. Although I will say I don't make too many decisions based on trying to appeal to more people. Yeah, that really isn't the goal. The goal is to just objectively, am I capturing the character and intentions of Jesus in the Gospels? Because I can't cover everything.
- [30:08]
Willie Robertson
I like that attitude. You know, I would subscribe to that.
- [30:12]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah. So I can't cover everything. And at the same time, we're also adding context, you know, human context, artistic imagination. And so I want to make sure that what the reason that we have the theological experts and Bible experts in our lives who read our scripts and give us feedback and, and we have kind of red, yellow and green. Red is. I can't put my name on this. I can't approve this. If you do it. I mean, it's your right to do it. I mean, they don't have veto power. But both Come and See, which is. Come and See is the nonprofit that finances the production of the show. They have their own theological governance that reads the scripts and then watches the show. And we've agreed that if there's a red, you know, red light from either their team or my team that I already had before come and See, came on board that I've just disagreed. If there's, if there's a red light that says I can't endorse this, that we won't. That we won't do it.
- [31:09]
Willie Robertson
Yeah.
- [31:09]
Dallas Jenkins
We'll find a way to come out a different direction. And there's only been one. One time where they, where they were like, we can't do this. It was actually in season one, when Peter Simon at the time is fishing on Shabbat, and our Jewish rabbi was like, there's no way this would happen. That would be too grievous of a sin. And so we went back and he goes, you're treating it somewhat casually. And so we went back into it and we found a great solution, which was that Peter's mistake is that he's treating his tax problem as a grievous, like, life or death situation, which is the exception you can make, and he's treating it like a life or death situation, which gives him the. The freedom to do this.
- [31:51]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [31:51]
Dallas Jenkins
And. And that's where he's making his mistakes. Is he treating the things of earth like they are?
- [31:56]
Willie Robertson
Like, I mean, the fact that you're looking at this this closely kind of warms my soul.
- [32:00]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah.
- [32:01]
Willie Robertson
Because I think most people say that was it, you know, like.
- [32:04]
Dallas Jenkins
Well, because we really, by the time they read it, we've done a lot of work, too, to make sure that we're really not contradicting the character and intentions of Jesus in the Gospels. So then. But then they have yellow lights which are yellow flags or whatever, which is. You're going to get some pushback for this, or. I wouldn't necessarily do it this way, but I don't think this is a salvation issue. We don't think this is blasphemous, but it's. Here's another way to look at it. We've made changes based on that sometimes, too, of like, oh, that's actually a smarter way of looking at it, or that's better theology than what we had. But this isn't a kingdom issue. This isn't a salvation issue. And then we have green, which is just, oh, that's really great. That's really cool. We think this is going to really help illuminate a beautiful passage of Scripture written. And that's what we do that we look at. But John 17, Last Supper, when we came into that, that was very challenging because, as you know, the Last Supper also is a dividing line between a lot of Catholics and Protestants as to when he drank the bread and drank Drink the bread. Drink the bread and eat the cup. No, when he drank the cup and ate the bread, what that actually means when he does this high priestly prayer, which is what it's known as, Jesus had spoken these words. He's lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, father, the hour has come. Glorify your son, that the son may glorify you. And then, like that, enough is pretty rich. And we just kept going and going, and we're like, all right, we can't do this whole prayer. So what's the part that we believe is the most relevant to this moment in the Last Supper and in the show? And we're going to excerpt this part, and we know that the rest of this is just going to be talked about on podcasts, like.
- [33:45]
Jase Robertson
Yeah, yeah.
- [33:46]
Dallas Jenkins
And in sermons.
- [33:47]
Jase Robertson
So which one did you pick? Did you pick just those first few or. Yeah, so I hadn't seen that episode. I hadn't seen season.
- [33:52]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah, it's in season five. Well, you got to catch up.
- [33:54]
Jase Robertson
I got to catch up.
- [33:55]
Dallas Jenkins
Especially if you're going to cover.
- [33:56]
Jase Robertson
I tried last night. I couldn't figure it out on my tv. I'm embarrassed.
- [33:59]
Dallas Jenkins
It's on prime right now. It's on.
- [34:01]
Jase Robertson
Oh, okay.
- [34:01]
Dallas Jenkins
But, yeah, but if you're. If you're traveling might be difficult, but yeah. So seasons one through five are all on prime video and are about to come there. By the time I think someone listens to this will be out in the ass.
- [34:12]
Jase Robertson
Okay.
- [34:13]
Willie Robertson
We actually watched season five at the theater, each segment, which was awesome.
- [34:18]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah. But this is a really beautiful passage when he says, I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. So that passage was a. What we. We really believed was a beautiful way to end that last upper portion in episode one.
- [34:44]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [34:45]
Dallas Jenkins
And so then when it keep. It just goes into so much that we thought, oh, my goodness. Yeah, this is just. This is. This is a depth.
- [34:53]
Jase Robertson
Well, especially. And I love the idea of working your way back through, because we had mentioned this and we were Studying, you know, 14, 15, 16, that John does such a great job of revealing the whole part about the Holy Spirit. None of the other gospel writers really deal with it like he did in that depth. And so you look back at it. I mean, it is a nice way to kind of start at the end and work your way back.
- [35:17]
Dallas Jenkins
And we spent. We did spend more time on and included much More of the Holy Spirit. Because we thought that's a key, key part of the Last Supper and a key part of this show. Show. Because we love the disciples so much because we spent four and a half seasons with them. So now that we're seeing them at the Last Supper and Jesus is telling them, I'm not going to be with you much longer. Well, as a viewer, you go, well, how. We have to know how the apostles would react to that. And the only thing that would allow them to not completely freak out and go, wait a second. What are you doing? And it was. He says, but I'm sending a helper. There is going to be a help. So that was just enough for the disciples to go, okay, all right. We don't know when it's going to be. And they didn't know it was going to be that night. But for them to be able to even function, they needed to know that when Jesus said, I won't be here forever, but I'm going to send a helper, that gave us enough as writers of the show to get. For them to wrestle with that. What does that mean? Okay. And it allowed them to kind of be assuaged, at least temporarily.
- [36:32]
Guest or Additional Commentator
Probably their understanding of that was so limited that when Pentecost happened, they were probably like, whoa.
- [36:39]
Jase Robertson
Whoa.
- [36:41]
Guest or Additional Commentator
We didn't know that's what he meant.
- [36:42]
Dallas Jenkins
Right. And that's the thing that we included that was very important that I was grateful to. Actually, I hadn't remembered that Jesus said this in Scripture, but there were so many times in the Gospels where he tells them what's going to happen explicitly, and they just don't get it. And he says, you're not going to get it. But I'm saying it to you now because you will get it eventually. We read that, and that's what's such a cool thing about that. So that we included that in the show because it's the only thing that explains why they, in our mind, seem so dense. How can you not get this?
- [37:15]
Guest or Additional Commentator
But then that's always kind of the posture. It seems like God's promise. Even like Abraham, there's no way that he understood the. The actual promise when God gave it to him. Like his. He. He's thinking, oh, a bunch of earthly grandkids. He had probably no concept that four guys are going to be sitting around a podcast table talking about, we're all heirs of Abraham. He had no.
- [37:34]
Willie Robertson
He had in Nashville, across the pond. Yeah, it's. It's that this is, you know, our task. I mean, because I think even as humans, even how many times did he say, I'm going to die and be buried and raised? I mean, he starts off in John 2 saying that I am the temple, destroy this temple. He's talking about the body. That all sounds great until you die. And then as humans, I'm like, that's over. I mean, you would immediately. I think we don't give them enough leeway. How can you believe that? You just saw your friend die. Oh, because he said he was going to come back. He's going to come back and now he's back. You just wouldn't believe it.
- [38:20]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah, we portray them in season five is constantly one step behind Jesus. They're with him. And that's actually the theme of season five is can you trust and follow even when you don't understand? Because they so clearly didn't.
- [38:36]
Willie Robertson
And it was awesome.
- [38:40]
Guest or Additional Commentator
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- [39:52]
Willie Robertson
That's the truth. That's why I gave three chapters about I'm going to send you a helper. I mean 14, 15 and 16.
- [39:57]
Dallas Jenkins
So they're confused. And I mean even at the last supper when Jesus says, I'm going to wash your feet and without knowing the Jewish Context of that, it's difficult to understate how shocked they would have been and how scandalized. And Peter's like, no, no, never, never. That's offensive. But here's what's so great about Peter. Jesus says, well, then, if you won't let me wash your feet, then you're out. You have no part of me. He goes, okay, I'll. Never mind. I'll wash everything. And so Peter didn't understand, but he was committed. And all the 11 didn't understand. They genuinely didn't. And I think there's a lesson in that. And that Jesus is like, you're still coming with me. And he even says in this prayer, one of the verses that In John, chapter 17, that's always fascinating to me on my blinged out phone, if you're listening, you can't see it, but it's obnoxious. But I'm reading the scripture here. As you sent me into the world, so this is verse 18. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 and for their sake, I consecrate myself that they also may be sanctified in truth. And then he says, I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me. So he's doing this prayer like he's constantly saying, they're human. I'm human too. But they're like, they don't get it. You sent me for them for their sake. I consecrate myself that they may also be sanctified in truth. They had to be going, what does that even mean? He's just saying all these things so that when it happened, they were like, oh, oh. That's what he meant by that. But you have to remember that as a human being, as a close friend, there are times when we don't allow our brains to even process something so traumatic. Science has shown this over and over again, that we will literally change what's in our brains in order to fit into our own preferred story. And so that's another thing that made sense to us as we were working out season five. How could they be so blind? How could they not see it when he's explicitly telling them, is that when you don't want to see something, you will do anything or say anything to yourself to keep you from getting it. And so when Jesus also spoke in parables, you have to just assume that they were like, okay, he's got to be telling a parable right now. There's no way this is real. Obviously, the Messiah, our teacher, our rabbi, the one that could at any moment, as he says to them, call on the legion of angels to stop this. They're like, well, then he's got the power of the wind and waves in his hand. He can stop this at any point. All right, now stop it and you'll stop it right now. And now, oh, no, he's going to get arrested. Oh, no, he's going to go, wait a second, now he's before Pilate. Wait a second. And that's what we are wrestling with in season five. And then ultimately, what we just filmed in Season six is at each stage, the apostles and the followers and the women were all like, there's no way. There's no way. There's no way.
- [42:54]
Willie Robertson
Well, even when he said, I'm going to send you a helper, if that was me, I'd be like, well, he's not going to be as good as you, because here's Jesus, who was flawless even there. How are you making sense of that? Oh, you're going to get the idea that he's going to be the spirit of me in you.
- [43:13]
Dallas Jenkins
And we show Nathaniel in that scene, speaks up and goes, wait a minute. Why do you. We don't want another person. We have you. We want you. We're good with that. And then Philip goes, in an effort to kind of like, well, okay, then show us the Father, just so we can be fully convinced. And he's like, you don't think I've shown you enough? I still have Philip, one of my most faithful.
- [43:34]
Willie Robertson
Well, you kind of see that in Mary, too, at the resurrection. I know I'm skipping ahead, but still, spoiler alert. She was like, we're back. We're back. Going again. I think she was probably thinking, this is kind of like Lazarus. We can just go back to the way we were. And he's like, no, no, this is not how this works. I got to leave. And, you know, she was probably thinking, what does this mean? I don't understand.
- [43:58]
Jase Robertson
But you remember even. Even when you get to Acts one, I mean, the last question they asked him before he left was, now, is this the. This one? Israel's going to be restored. Remember, they're still thinking in terms of here and now. And he's like, that's not for you. You don't need to worry about it. You need to stay here and get ready, because something's supposed to happen.
- [44:16]
Guest or Additional Commentator
Well, there's that. And then on the road to Emmaus is such an interesting. I don't know how far you guys are going to get with the interesting. That road to Emmaus after he's resurrected.
- [44:23]
Willie Robertson
Oh, yeah.
- [44:24]
Guest or Additional Commentator
And he. And he meets the two disciples that are like just. They're just distraught over what's happened. And he's like, hey, what's, what's going on? They're like, have you been living under a rock? And like, have you not seen what's happened here over the last three days? The one that we hope was the. We hoped he'd be the hope for Israel. He died and he's been dead for three days. And then it's. And then Jesus opens the scriptures, the Old Testament scriptures, and. And he shows that. And you can imagine that moment for them and in the upper room that it was like, oh, it's like watching that movie Sixth Sense. You know, you watch the end of it, you're like, oh, wait, Bruce Willis was dead the whole time?
- [44:57]
Willie Robertson
Oh, yeah.
- [44:57]
Guest or Additional Commentator
And the rest of the movie makes sense now.
- [44:58]
Dallas Jenkins
You're like, oh, someone listening right now who just is like, you just ruined six cents for me. You have those moments in movies where, where the, the viewer, but also the main character is like, all these things flash. Yeah. You're like, oh, that's. Oh my gosh. That's what I meant. That's what I meant. Oh my gosh. And you're the killer or you've been dead the whole time or whatever.
- [45:19]
Willie Robertson
That was a clever movie, though. I'm like, if you haven't seen it by now, there's no.
- [45:23]
Guest or Additional Commentator
Yeah, that's on now.
- [45:24]
Jase Robertson
They haven't seen it 20 years.
- [45:26]
Dallas Jenkins
No, but, but that's the thing. When that happened with each of the apostles, it's. It's pretty clear. It didn't seem to fully take root until the Holy Spirit came in Acts 1. And when they went, oh, oh, that's what life means. That's what death means. That's what eternity means. That's what sleep means. That's what. You know.
- [45:46]
Guest or Additional Commentator
Because even post resurrection, I mean, Thomas is still like, eh, I don't. So it wasn't even the resurrection. It was the coming of the spirit in Acts 2 that really solidifies the deal.
- [45:56]
Dallas Jenkins
And that's what we got. That's what we explore in season five. And what I was to conclude, what I was saying earlier about the theme of season five being, can you trust and follow even when you don't understand is Judas, of course can't. He doesn't understand, so he chooses well, because I don't understand it. It must be wrong. I must put a stop to it, the religious leaders, same thing. They had faithfully studied the Scriptures as you read, they knew the Old Testament. And so when Jesus comes along and seemingly contradicts it, they can't understand it. It must be wrong. I must eliminate this. We still do that to this day. Something we don't quite understand must be wrong. Therefore, I must shut it down or I must kill it, or I must end it.
- [46:39]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [46:40]
Dallas Jenkins
And so that's the warning is you. You oftentimes miss out when you're none, when you're unwilling to follow and trust. If you don't understand, you miss out on the victory, on what?
- [46:49]
Jase Robertson
2,000 years later, that's still the struggle. How do I get through and when I'm not really understanding what. What's happening here?
- [46:57]
Willie Robertson
No, I think when y' all depicted Judas and you took some creative liberties, but it was, to me, you captured more the essence of the Bible because you had him justifying in his mind why he was doing what he was doing, which is what we do as human. He didn't like this version of Jesus, so he justified it in his mind on doing something horrific. But in his mind. Well, we'll see now if he really is. I mean, I just thought it was.
- [47:27]
Dallas Jenkins
Well, we just stumbled across a moment in John 17 that is really. It causes a lot of theological discussion, which is. He says, which verse is it when he refers to the Son of perdition or the son of destruction.
- [47:40]
Jase Robertson
12.
- [47:40]
Dallas Jenkins
12. Yeah, verse 12. So while I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the Son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. So that verse alone was a huge contributor to our understanding and portrayal of Judas. And I'm not saying that we're perfectly correct. We're not claiming fact, but we do believe it's plausible. The following he says, not one of them has been lost. Which means the word lost means that at one point he was with him. So there have been some people who've been uncomfortable with our portrayal of Judas in the show, because they're saying, no, no, he's evil. Jesus knew he was going to betray him from the beginning. And you are giving him almost too much credit by giving him kind of a backstory and why he made the choice that he did. And I think the notion that for three years, Judas not only participated in this work and was part of the 12, and none of them saw it coming, and he actually got authority at one point to heal and cast out demons and preach in Jesus name. And as Jesus says here in verse 12, he's been lost. Meaning that at one point he was with them, I have guarded them. And like a shepherd, which he doesn't say the word shepherd, but he uses that metaphor a lot. Not one of them has been lost except the Son of destruction. Then he says that the scripture might be fulfilled. So the purpose of the loss was that the scripture might be fulfilled. And so where is Judas in this? How much? Now we get into the whole concept of free will. And.
- [49:18]
Willie Robertson
I was nervous about it when I was watching it, it because I thought now they're going down this road, which I knew also that there's a.
- [49:25]
Dallas Jenkins
Lot of, you know, talk about it.
- [49:27]
Willie Robertson
Yeah.
- [49:28]
Dallas Jenkins
But the notion that he went through those three years and from the beginning, Judas knew all along he was going to betray Jesus for a slave's wage at the end of the three years, to me is patently ludicrous. Like, it's just, it's not plausible.
- [49:40]
Willie Robertson
Which is why I like that point that no one understood it. They were trying to. He chose them and. But the way he responded, that's where we went off.
- [49:52]
Dallas Jenkins
And I think he's not willing to follow and trust when he doesn't understand.
- [49:59]
Willie Robertson
So.
- [49:59]
Jase Robertson
Jase, our father, I think, instilled in us a love for conservation just because of how much he loved the land and in particularly our hunting property that we've maintained and managed for many, many years.
- [50:13]
Willie Robertson
Yeah, there's, there's not going to be any more land. This is, this is the hand we're dealt. And dad was always excited about that. And since he was an outdoorsman and he's a believer, he's like, we have a responsibility to make this as best as we can for all the visitors that go to and fro on the land.
- [50:35]
Jase Robertson
And so we know not everyone can own, you know, big properties and manage them, their sales. But a way that we can all be a part of conservation is the funding that comes from buying a federal duck stamp. Not because we have to, but because it matters. This year, the all new digital duck stamp is available exclusively@duck stamp.com. buy it online, store it in your phone and you're legal in seconds. But more importantly, you're doing something that helps protect God's creation for the next generation. These stamps fund real conservation, wetlands, refuge lands, and the ducks we've chased our whole lives. This isn't about checking a box. It's about preserving a traditional and leaving the land better than we found it.
- [51:16]
Willie Robertson
I will say this. I have Lost my federal duck stamp many times. And so if you have a propensity to lose things, this may be your answer.
- [51:26]
Jase Robertson
Visit duckstamp.comunashamed to get your digital stamp today. That's duckstamp.comunashamEd. a couple of things about that. Zach and I were talking about this earlier. It also shows you that it's true that people can be near the kingdom of God and miss it. And then we see it every day.
- [51:52]
Willie Robertson
We'Re sitting beside them. I hate to say this, but it's just the truth. I mean, I do a little way more simplistic version because I take it to a duck line. Just because you're sitting in a duck line doesn't mean you're a duck hunter. I have taken these people, they have no concept faking it. They don't know what they're doing and will hurt you just because they don't know, you know, how to safely use a weapon or. But I think we do that the same way in church buildings. It's like, oh, I'm here, so this.
- [52:26]
Jase Robertson
Is who I am. I've said many times, closing out a sermon that, you know, Peter denied Jesus on that same night that Judas betrayed him. The difference in the two is that one stayed around long enough to witness the resurrection, and he started the church and is one of our forefathers in the faith. The other one took his own life. And so I tell people, don't give up. I mean, give the resurrected Lord a chance to speak into you. And so if that's where you are, don't take the easy way of just denying and going away because it won't work out, you know, it's going to be bad for you. So, I mean, that to me is a very powerful part of that story. And I was so glad you said that, that. I mean, he mentions him in that context, but I've always felt like it did happen over that course of those three years.
- [53:11]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah, yeah, that. And we don't know, and we may never know on the side of eternity, what was the tipping point? When did he. You know, the Bible mentions at one point at that, you know, it says, and then the evil one overtook him.
- [53:27]
Jase Robertson
Right.
- [53:27]
Dallas Jenkins
He was essentially possessed.
- [53:28]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [53:30]
Dallas Jenkins
During Holy Week, which implies that before then he might not have been. So we don't, you know, how much of it was him opening himself up to demonic activity, how much of that was a conscious choice on his part. And so we had to wrestle with that. And that's what's both fun and challenging about the show you get to wrestle with some of those things through the lens of story, through the storytelling. But I do believe that our portrayal of Judas is plausible, if not factual, it's at least plausible. And I do believe it's scriptural, even if it's not. Some of the things aren't directly from the Bible. I do believe that it's scriptural because we start with these verses of going, okay, clearly Jesus knew what was happening and clearly it was for the scriptures being fulfilled. And clearly Jesus says, I've guarded them him like so.
- [54:22]
Sponsor Voice
He.
- [54:22]
Dallas Jenkins
He had Judas in his flock.
- [54:24]
Jase Robertson
Yeah. And it's interesting because you tell the story backwards, but he also washed his feet and served him in that moment.
- [54:31]
Dallas Jenkins
So that's, you know, you haven't seen yet. Because you have.
- [54:34]
Jase Robertson
Exactly. I'm behind you saw.
- [54:36]
Willie Robertson
Oh, yeah.
- [54:37]
Dallas Jenkins
But I would imagine to agree it's a pretty intense moment.
- [54:40]
Willie Robertson
It's intense. Season five, your intensity level and I, I thought the production level, I mean, to have. I don't know how many extras you had on that season.
- [54:51]
Dallas Jenkins
Thousands.
- [54:51]
Willie Robertson
Yeah, thousands. And just from the little TV I've done, I mean, I just, I was.
- [54:57]
Dallas Jenkins
The production level of this, of the, of that season five was significantly higher. Season six, even higher than that, which that's not.
- [55:04]
Willie Robertson
Oh, really?
- [55:05]
Dallas Jenkins
Oh, yeah. Season six is.
- [55:07]
Willie Robertson
A little birdie told me over in Italy.
- [55:09]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah.
- [55:10]
Willie Robertson
Oh, y' all filmed the whole season?
- [55:12]
Dallas Jenkins
No, no, we filmed the, the crucifixion at that place in Matera, Italy. It's a first century town that Mel filmed Passion of the Christ. Multiple Jesus crucifixion movies have been filmed there because it looks, it's like the, the direction to the city, the skyline, all that you can't recreate anywhere else.
- [55:33]
Willie Robertson
I was curious how they respond like the Italians, because I guess, I mean, that'd be hard to miss because I know how big this production is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On how that was received there.
- [55:44]
Dallas Jenkins
And, and you know, there's a lot of movies that come to Matera, so it's not like they were blown away by the production itself, but there was for sure, multiple times when crew members, cast members, guests, were overwhelmed emotionally and spiritually by what was taking place and by what we were capturing. And I was too. I mean, it was, it was, it was an incredible experience. The hardest thing I've ever done without a close second. I had my first kind of emotional breakdown. Breakdown was when we were filming in Italy and I'm away from home, away from my comfort zone. The crew doesn't speak English. We're filming Jesus's body. Jonathan, is Jesus being lifted on this crossbeam onto this stipes that's into the ground. And he's screaming and yelling, and there's blood and there's wounds. And the actors are at the foot of the cross weeping. And I'm seeing this extraordinary backdrop, and it feels so visceral and real. And I'm in the middle of it. And the actors. We finished the scene, and it's so visceral and intense. And the women are weeping and still from the scene. And I went over to them and I was comforting, and I'm just kissing them on the forehead and we're kind of crying together. And I started to, like. I'm like, I'm spent. I've got nothing. So I start realizing I'm uncontrollably weeping here. And I'm the captain of the ship, and there's 200 people who. We still have jobs to do. And I. I'm like. So I walked away and got alone for a moment when they were setting up the next shot, and I just wept. And I had my arms out and I was like, God, I have nothing left. I am spent. I. And I. Help me get through this. I've got the rest of the day to film, and I got to capture this. And my job is to recreate this thing that you did that hundreds of millions of people are going to see all over again. Recreate it. And you've tasked me with this and helped me. I can't do it right now. I don't have it. So, you know, he, of course, kind of revitalized me, and I kind of get back together and I'm. Get back on set and. All right, here we go. And then they go, manda's here. And I hadn't seen her in two weeks. So she comes around the corner and sees me. She's like, hey. And I literally just burst into tears.
- [57:56]
Willie Robertson
Here we go again.
- [57:57]
Dallas Jenkins
I just burst into tears. And I walked up to her and she hugged me. And my eyes. I didn't even hug her back. My arms were at my sides, and I just buried my face in her. In her shoulder. And I just, like, cried. And she's like, oh, my goodness. Like. And she's like. And she still. When she tells the story, she's like, I didn't expect that, of course, but I kind of instantly knew what was going on. Like, I could tell just from the set and what we were filming and all of this. It was very overwhelming.
- [58:24]
Guest or Additional Commentator
It's going to be special. Because if you think about.
- [58:28]
Dallas Jenkins
If you.
- [58:29]
Guest or Additional Commentator
Put it in a movie format, you just don't really have enough time to do the character development. Right. This is. I don't know if anything's ever been done like this.
- [58:37]
Dallas Jenkins
No, because you've always been a movie or a miniseries.
- [58:40]
Jase Robertson
Yeah.
- [58:40]
Dallas Jenkins
It's miracle to miracle, Bible verse to Bible verse.
- [58:42]
Guest or Additional Commentator
We were talking from 2000, what wasn't it 17 or.
- [58:46]
Dallas Jenkins
It was 17 when we started to write it. So it's 2018. We. 2019 is when it first season one.
- [58:52]
Willie Robertson
So we've been going for six years.
- [58:53]
Guest or Additional Commentator
I mean, this is gonna. I think it's gonna. But it's going to be very interesting how. I know it's going to be a very powerful moment, maybe the most powerful moment on screen, at least witnessing a portrayal of the resurrection. I mean, on the death of Christ. Because of the character, the amount of time spent in the character development.
- [59:08]
Dallas Jenkins
Exactly. And that's what was funny was how this whole story started was you mentioning. And I was talking about washing Judas feet. So it's probably not a surprise to you that the filming of and probably the watching of Jesus being lifted up onto a cross is going to be hard to watch. It's going to be very visceral. It's going to be very emotional. That's in some ways almost the easy part to move an audience and to move a viewer. Showing Jonathan as Jesus being lifted up onto a cross and the pain and the misery of that, it's not going to be difficult to get audiences to respond emotionally. The interesting thing is to show Jesus watch Judas feet. That's the thing that you go, I hadn't thought of that before. Yeah, like I hadn't seen that portrayed. And when I know what that means. And oh my goodness, I've been watching this for several seasons and I know what Judas is doing and what he's about to do and yada, yada. And Jesus goes, all right, Judas, it's your turn. And in that episode when he says your turn and he's been washing their feet and Judas goes, I don't want to. Please don't. You know, you kind of realize why that would be. And that's what I think the chosen can do that other portrayals can't necessarily do because of the multi season approach. Because we can make moments like that truly stick and truly cause us to wrestle with the word and wrestle with what we know about God because we're seeing it through a truly human lens. And then that makes the crucifixion even that much more intense.
- [60:46]
Jase Robertson
Well, we're excited about it. And on behalf of Unashamed Nation, thank you for what you're doing. We love it. It's awesome. Thank you for coming on the podcast and getting us all here. It was your idea. We're here.
- [60:57]
Dallas Jenkins
I'm going to be in Nashville.
- [60:58]
Jase Robertson
And so are we.
- [60:59]
Dallas Jenkins
Yeah. So let's get together and talk about it.
- [61:01]
Willie Robertson
Always a pleasure, Dallas.
- [61:02]
Jase Robertson
Thank you.
- [61:02]
Dallas Jenkins
Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
- [61:04]
Jase Robertson
Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.