Ep 1176 | The Robertsons Respond to the Michigan Church Attack & Cling to Truth in a World of Lies

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Ep 1176 | The Robertsons Respond to the Michigan Church Attack & Cling to Truth in a World of Lies
Date: September 30, 2025
Hosts: Al Robertson, Jase Robertson, Zach Dasher
Special Appearances: Discussion of family and biblical guests (no external special guest this episode)

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Episode Overview

This episode finds the Robertsons wrestling with recent violence at a Michigan church, confronting the loss and confusion in a world swirling with subjective "truths." The conversation weaves their signature blend of family stories, biblical exploration (notably, John 17), and cultural commentary—offering hope by focusing on Christ as the Truth in a culture of lies. The episode stands as a call to hold fast to absolute truth, as revealed in Scripture, and echoes the need for unity, sanctification, and the transformative power of the Gospel.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Life Updates and Reflections on Family (01:01–13:23)

• Nashville “Road Trip”: The Robertsons recount their recent trip, emphasizing the hospitality and Americana charm, alongside their discomfort with city traffic.
• Family Moments: Jase shares stories of teaching his young grandson how to fish and play baseball, underscoring lessons about patience, process, and passing down practical and spiritual wisdom.
  • "He hasn't figured out this fish. His life was given for us..." — Jase [07:54]
• Bible Study in the Family: The ripple effects of faith within the family, as illustrated by Brighton’s devotion and impact.

2. Recent Events: The Michigan Church Attack (13:29–16:47)

• The hosts directly address the recent Michigan church shooting, lamenting the evil and brokenness it reveals.
  • "You get separated from truth itself, it can lead us into all types of depravity...There's a truth that is beyond us, that we have to submit to." — Zach [15:02]
• Discussion centers around the dangers of embracing “my truth” over objective, biblical truth.

3. Truth vs. Lies: The Battle Lines (16:47–30:32)

• Biblical Pivot: Transition into John 17 and 18, exploring Jesus’ discourse on truth.
• Power, Violence, and Truth: Using the encounter of Jesus before Pilate (John 18), they analyze how, absent an objective standard, "truth" is wielded by the most powerful—often enforced by violence.
  • "So truth is, whatever we tell you it is." — Jason [19:03]
  • "He is truth. He said, 'I am the truth.' He embodies truth. He never sinned." — Jason [18:15]
• Historical Context: Reference to “Lex Rex”—the law is above the king—as fundamental for Western ideals, contrasting with societies where rulers dictate truth.
  • "In the absence of God, man becomes the determiner of all things." — Zach [21:27]
• Insight into how political and religious authorities through history have repeated the same struggle over who gets to define reality.

4. The Answer in Scripture: Sanctified by the Word (30:32–38:00)

• Sanctification Explained: The hosts unpack what it means to be “sanctified by the truth,” connecting it with being set apart, made holy, and protected from the evil one.
  • "Sanctify them in the truth. Your word is truth." — Jesus, as quoted by Zach [27:38]
• Spiritual Safety: Jesus' promise that He will not lose any of those the Father has given Him, showing ultimate hope and security.
  • "This is going to be tough. They're going to hate you...There's a plan." — Jason [32:16]
• The Devil’s Language: The devil, as Jesus describes, is the “father of lies”—his chief weapon is deception. Therefore, the antidote is immersion in divine truth.

5. The Garden Narrative and Redemption (38:00–56:14)

• Biblical Arc: They trace the motif of gardens from Eden, through Gethsemane, to the resurrection and coming restoration.
  • "When you go back to the first two people being created in the image of God...He created a garden. They have everything they need as far as a food source...He put them in charge." — Jason [47:55]
• Jesus as the New Adam: The parallel between the first Adam’s betrayal in the garden and Jesus’ faithful obedience—ultimately restoring what was lost.
  • "Jesus is conquering where it all went wrong and the betrayal in the first garden to here." — Jason [44:54]
• Royalty and the Garden: The ancient link between kings and gardens as a sign of authority, sustenance, and life—fulfilled in Christ.
• Prophetic Fulfillment: Ezekiel’s promise of a new heart, new spirit, and fruitfulness—the return to “a garden of Eden”—now realized in Christ’s resurrection and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
  • "This land that was laid waste has become like the Garden of Eden." — Jason, quoting Ezekiel 36:35 [53:34]

6. Final Reflections: Unity, Love, and Hope (50:42–end)

• Unity in Christ: Jesus’ prayer for believers to display unity, love, and reflect God’s glory in the world. This is the remedy to the chaos and brokenness seen in current events.
  • "May they be brought to complete unity...to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." — Al, quoting John 17 [51:41]
• Personal Encouragement: The hosts end with the idea that Jesus prayed specifically for each believer’s sanctification, unity, and participation in God's love—a profound, personal hope in turbulent times.
  • "The Lord and Savior and creator of the cosmos is praying specifically for me, because that's what he did." — Al [52:44]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Cost of Relativity and Subjective Truth:
  • "When you pursue your own version of truth that's outside of reality, it does lead to these incredible things that we're seeing...The devil always wants to attack truth because if he can attack truth and undermine what truth is, then ultimately he can...kill, steal and destroy." — Zach [15:02–16:05]
• On Truth's Power Against Evil:
  • "The reason why God gives us the truth is to keep us from the evil one. Truth is the revelation from the Holy Spirit that will keep you from the evil one." — Zach [27:15]
• The Garden as Restoration:
  • "Instead of the result of Adam and Eve when they betrayed God, and death ensued, His death is now going to bring life...Him dying on a tree is going to bring life." — Jason [49:23]

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Important Timestamps by Theme

• Opening banter, return from Nashville: 01:01–05:00
• Family updates & lessons from grandkids: 05:00–11:00
• Bible study passion in the family, entering John 17: 11:00–13:23
• Michigan Church attack & the roots of violence: 13:29–16:47
• Discussion on Pilate, truth, and power: 17:50–20:54
• Lex Rex and history of truth vs. power: 20:54–22:37
• Biblical examination of sanctification and evil: 27:38–33:46
• Sanctification, practical example of escaping the lies: 33:46–35:59
• The Garden motif and redemption narrative: 38:00–47:55
• Jesus and unity among believers: 50:42–52:44
• Old Testament connections (Ezekiel’s garden prophecy): 53:34–56:14

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Tone and Style

The conversation blends the Robertsons' trademark storytelling, brotherly ribbing, and deep biblical reflection. The tone moves from lighthearted southern tales to earnest, passionate exhortations on biblical truth and the urgency of clinging to it in a “world of lies.”

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Summary Takeaway

By tracing both family experiences and the biblical story from the garden of Eden to Christ’s resurrection, the Robertson family shows listeners that absolute, objective truth matters—now more than ever. Amid evil events and cultural confusion, the hope offered is not in politics, power, or human “truths” but in Jesus Christ, whose word sanctifies, protects, unites, and restores.

Transcript

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[Jason]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Al]

Welcome back to Unashamed. We're back from our road trip. We were just talking about it. We, yeah, had a little road trip to Nashville.

[Jason]

Well, it's hard to call it a road trip if your whole life seems like a road trip.

[Al]

I totally understand.

[Zach]

Well, the production value was incredible. It was. I mean, you guys had the red carpet laid out for y' all for sure.

[Jason]

Right. At no time in Nashville did if.

[Al]

That'S a red carpet is because there was blood on it that.

[Jason]

Did you ever see a red carpet?

[Al]

No, I did not.

[Zach]

Oh, you had one of the best steak dinners you've ever had.

[Al]

I did enjoy a nice meal. I didn't pay, but I did. Zach enjoyed it. Yeah, he showed up with a plus one. But yeah, we had a. That was our good friends that I am second, Angie and Greg that took us out to eat and it was fantastic.

[Jason]

I missed six days of teal season.

[Al]

Yep.

[Jason]

To go on that trip. And you know, we got this from our dad, Al. He always used to feel uncomfortable in a city like that. And because you just take for granted every day people go through traffic. Oh man, that causes a lot of.

[Al]

I will quit complaining about Westbourn Road traffic after being in Nashville.

[Jason]

That's strange to see. It's not many but just so many people not paying attention on their phones and causing so much.

[Al]

And all it takes is one. Like we had a little bit of weather there that first day and so just a little bit of Rain thrown in the mix. And it was. It was not good.

[Jason]

Yeah. There's a lot of people out there who basically drive. As in their playing chicken. It's either I want this spot and I will risk my life and yours.

[Zach]

Yeah. And they'll go the distance.

[Jason]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach]

Got the distance.

[Jason]

I think the most frustrating thing is when it goes to one lane.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And then you have all these people who are passing you.

[Al]

Yeah. Zooming by.

[Jason]

They're gonna cut in.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And they go literally to the road. Runs out. Yeah. I saw people get in the grass.

[Al]

Yep.

[Jason]

And then they just forced their way in. Or you have a wreck.

[Al]

Right.

[Jason]

It's really.

[Al]

Does it make you. Because sometimes I get over there to block them. Have you ever played the blocker row?

[Jason]

Well, I have tried, but only the 18 wheelers can pull that off, which they do. And I'm thankful there's a few truck drivers out there who are making the roads at least tolerable.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Because they'll just stop.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Let everybody get out of the way. You're not getting around them. Right.

[Al]

So we got a lot of truckers that listen. So we're grateful for you guys. I've seen it before. I try to do. You're right. I try to do it. My truck. But they'll just go around the shoulder.

[Jason]

Realize why people have told me now that they listen to our podcasts in traffic. That would be good.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Because it would help with your overall.

[Zach]

Calm you down a little bit.

[Jason]

I've been working on my patients I've had. Since I've gotten back. I haven't had much time to study. So we'll see how this goes. But we had. Because my other son, which we just had Reed and his lovely wife on the podcast in Nashville.

[Al]

And they're a big hit because I've gotten several notes from people that have loved what. What they taught their story and everything.

[Jason]

People have reached out and so. Yeah. I'm so happy because they're. They inspire me and just at their age. Loving to study the Bible.

[Al]

Brighton has. Is a self proclaimed number one listener of the Unashamed podcast.

[Zach]

She did all.

[Al]

She said she was great.

[Jason]

Studies the Bible and has this passion. And she has three kids. Three younger, under three. Yeah. And one on the way. Four. Are you kidding me? So I need to stop complaining. So she really inspired me because we. When we got back, well, my other son, he's fixed to get married.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Well, what I didn't know is his fiance's family were here when we. They were waiting on Us, when you got back. Yeah. And they stayed the whole weekend. Yeah, they. They did like a shower, a wedding shower. And which was. What's surprising is most of them are women. It's a. It's a family of women. They had the dad. It was all women.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And so I was like, I bet I know Yalls favorite movie because this is right when I met everybody. I mean, the grandmas and the sisters and the.

[Al]

So they're all here.

[Jason]

They're all there. And they were just looking because I thought, I'm trying to joke. This is a bold movie. I said, I bet I know Yalls favorite movie. Everything stopped and it got quiet. And I said, a Few Good Men. It was a three second awkward pause, and then everybody laughed.

[Al]

And then they left there saying, wonder what he meant by that.

[Jason]

Cole was looking at me like, I don't know if that landed, man. So that was good. We had little man. And so I got to show a lot of patience. But I was so inspired by Brighton's story and all her kids, because I thought there was a couple things I wanted to do. One, I wanted to teach him how to play baseball. I mean, he's three and a half his time, but he didn't want to do it. And so it took three days. And this morning before I came up here, I actually threw a ball and he whacked it really took three days. Yeah. So I'm proud of that, you know, and so. And what we did last night is when we catch a fish that's not a crappie, he throws them back. But he caught his first crappie, reeled it in by himself.

[Al]

Yep.

[Jason]

And so I took that crappie, cleaned him. Have I told this story? I cleaned him because I said, no, we're gonna. We're keeping him. This is. This is the holy of holies of fish.

[Al]

He likes throwing them back because that's his little job.

[Jason]

That's his job. He feels like that's his job. And he puts his gloves on, he grabs them, and, you know, he throws them back. I was like, oh, no. So I showed him the whole process. I took the fish, I cleaned the fish in front of him, which was a bit traumatic, but he's three, so I'm like, we're gonna throw him back. We're taking his meat. We're gonna throw him back. He hasn't figured out this fish. His life was given for us, and it's over. But the fact that we then threw him back after we took the meat off, he's thinking in his Mind.

[Al]

Okay, he's good to go.

[Jason]

Yeah. I said he might be okay. But then he wouldn't eat the fish. He was like, I think it was too traumatic watching the whole product. Then it's like, so then I fried the fish. He's watching. I was like, okay, here you go. You caught this fish. Wouldn't do it. So this weekend we were playing, you know, going through the. What we do. We went over. Well, I had a huge crappie and he broke my line and should have changed my line before I went. Yep, my fault. And so when I got him back, because he was completely a mess. We had played, you know, he was dirty. While he was getting a bath from Lulu, I decided to go back over there because I thought I hadn't been able to catch these crappie. I thought, maybe I have caught them all. You know, Willie said I caught all his fish, but last two months, it's been dry on the crop. That one. Crappies only when we caught. I went over there and caught five in less than five minutes. So then when I come back, he's had his bath. You know, he's sitting on the couch and I just get outside the window and I started tapping on the glass. So they both look. And I held up all the crappie. You know, he come running out of there. How'd you catch all the crappie? So I cleaned them all and. Because that's Missy's favorite and I cooked them. I mean, it's like eight o' clock here.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

I mean, we've already eaten, but she's.

[Al]

Like, this is bonus meal.

[Jason]

I was like, babe, this has. I went back to my dad. I was like, this. Enjoying the process. This is. We pulled it off. Fresh crappie. We're back in. And so me and her just eating them and just gushing over, just. Oh. And he's like, I think I want to try one. Because he watched the whole process again. He ate that and was like, I want some more. So.

[Al]

So he could eat them if he didn't catch them. I guess he's good.

[Jason]

No, I think he just got. It was a process, is my point.

[Zach]

Well, they say. They always say. They always say if you see how the sausage is made, then you don't want to eat it. And that's. That's a. That's like a common. What's the word saying that people use?

[Al]

Idiom.

[Zach]

But. Yeah, but I've seen how sausage is made, and I still eat it.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

But that's what I'm most thankful that my dad taught me. To enjoy that process. This God has given us authority over the earth. I mean, in the beginning, the garden was created, and it's biblical. He put Adam and Eve in charge of this. Actually, kind of what I want to get to today, because we're in John. Are we going to get to John 18 today? No, we're not 17.

[Al]

We just barely dipped into 17.

[Zach]

We kept saying we were going to do John 17, and then we kind.

[Al]

Of threatened to do it the entire time we were in Nashville.

[Zach]

We kind of.

[Al]

We got in the first six verses with reading.

[Jason]

Well, I'll save that story. But I just wanted that process. I want to pass that on.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

To this young man. I mean, you know, so two things were accomplished. You don't want a game to break out as he's going through life like a baseball game, and then he gets up there and has no idea how to swing a bat or throw a ball. I mean, so I'm trying to save him from embarrassing. It doesn't have to be the greatest player.

[Al]

Right.

[Jason]

But just get the basics down right, because at that stage of your life, you're wanting to impress, you know, maybe a young lady that's watching and say, oh, that boy, he just. He's got skills. And then to know how to survive, to go out and catch a fish. Fish. Learn the process.

[Al]

That's right.

[Jason]

You're never going to eat anything better. Because Missy said, why is this so good? She kept saying that we've eaten these thousands of times. And I said, let me just give you the short version, because this fish was alive five minutes ago, we are now eating that. You're never. You can't go to a restaurant and replicate that.

[Al]

That's right.

[Jason]

I agree.

[Zach]

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[Jason]

So it was very exciting for me. There's hope. Three and a half. That's when they turned the corner.

[Zach]

Wow, you're coming in town next week. Al's going to be preaching at our church. Have you got your sermon?

[Al]

I do not. I do not. I'm too busy doing podcasts. So. Yeah, it's gonna be one of them Saturday night specials.

[Zach]

Probably preach from the overflow. We had baptisms yesterday, which was really cool. We went down to the creek and had about 10 or 12. Josh got baptized over here beside me.

[Al]

Really?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Al]

I was impressed with Josh. Josh is the Zach version of our Maddie. He's the off camera guy. And I finally got to meet him when we were doing podcasts because we kind of merged our crews together and very impressive young man you have there.

[Jason]

He indirectly heard the scheme of redemption just over and over.

[Al]

He's been listening to this podc and.

[Jason]

Then one day he says, you know what, let's go.

[Zach]

Well, he asked the question. He said, I don't. I can't remember if I've been baptized. I was going to call my mom and ask her. I said, if you got to call your mom to ask if you've been baptized, you haven't been baptized.

[Jason]

Good point, good point.

[Zach]

But you know, it's interesting. It's been a kind of crazy week too. I was. Because I've been. I've been sitting in John 17. Obviously y' all saw the story that happened in Michigan with the church shooting and the guy had the bombs and man, just absolutely horrific what went down there. And you know, I think what leads to something like that. I think it's what this text here is about that we're going to read. When you get separated from truth itself, it can lead us into all types of depravity. Yeah, it's interesting because the guy's mother, she had a Facebook post just a few days before and she was talking about defending her truth, you know, and her boundaries. Defending my truth. I think there's something in this. It's like when you pursue your own version of truth that's outside of reality, it does lead to these incredible kind of things that we're seeing. There's a truth that is beyond us, that we have to submit to. And that's the one thing that all of these killings and murders have in common is on some level, this is us pursuing a version of our own truth. And that's like. It is us pursuing our own truth. And we think that by doing so that we're going to somehow construct some kind of reality when in the end, no, there's a truth that we submit to. And the devil always wants to attack truth because if he can attack truth and undermine what truth is, then ultimately he can do what he came to do, which is kill, steal and destroy. I actually think John 17 is the answer for kind of where we're at in the world today. I wanted to see if you guys kind of saw that story.

[Al]

Well, I don't know a whole lot about the story because I just saw the flash stuff that came up yesterday. But it is amazing, Zach, how it always winds up back. Which if you think about all the verses we. That we've studied in the book of John, where Jesus keeps. Every time he brings up the Prince of the world, the, the evil One in John 8, he's a murderer, he's a killer. You know, it's always. It's a death thing. And it's exactly what you see with what you just described with these self reflective truths about someone gets in their mind. But isn't it amazing how it ends in the death of other people as a result?

[Jason]

It is so interesting that y' all are bringing this up because now I was, I thought we were in John 18. That tells you where I'm at. But as I read ahead, because there is definitely a transition here of, in the book of John where all of a sudden this kind of turns into a narrative. Here's what happened. Yeah, but the conversations and the words Jesus is praying in John 17 and then the subsequent conversations, it's all revolving around this truth. And even when he was, he was, he had been arrested, which I'm slightly moving ahead. But just to answer your question, when he says in John 18 and the high priest, they're questioning Jesus about his Disciples and his teaching. So the things he. He says.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And. And Jesus says, I have spoken openly in the world, always taught in synagogues or at the temple. This is verse 20:20 of John 18. I said nothing in secret. Why question me? Ask those who heard me. Surely they know what I said. He's going into. This is all about speaking of truth.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

You've heard everything I've said, which we know. He is truth. He said, I am the truth. He embodies truth. He never sinned. He's always right. All these things. So when Jesus said this, one of the officials nearby struck him in the face. Which you brought that up about death. Well, now. Well, this truth that they're representing is shown in violence. Yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And because he struck him in the face and it's like, did that happen? I mean, I'm just reading between the lines. The truth is we have the power. And you're sitting here.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

So truth is, whatever we tell you it is.

[Al]

And if we don't like it, we hit you in the face.

[Jason]

Yeah. And we'll kill you. That's the truth. Because. Because that continues after. After he hits him. He says in verse 23, if I said something wrong, testify as to what is wrong. But if I spoke the truth, why did you strike me? So here's the. He contrasts those two things. You're. You're using violence. Yeah. Over my words. Which he knows he's. He's right. And what he's saying is true. About what? About anything. Everything. Everything he says is true. And so then you see this play out when you get to verse 36. And now he's talking to Pilate, and he says, my kingdom is not of this world. If it were. And he makes the same illustration, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. He's saying if what I'm involved in, which is from the origin is. He's not saying, like, the kingdom can't be in this world. It's not from this world. Well, we would fight like you're doing, because ultimately, that's their view of truth. Whoever has the most power is the one who dictates truth. But he says, but now my kingdom is from another place. So he's like, so you are a king. Why is he bringing up a king? Because that's who has the power to dictate what is true. The truth in their world, in a monarchy system, is whoever has the power, they tell you what's true.

[Zach]

Which is why there was a book written by a Scottish Presbyterian minister And the name of the book was called Lex Rex. And what that means in Latin is that the law is king. But he wrote this around the same time that John Locke wrote a book called the Treatise of Two Governments, which is kind of the foundation for our whole like political system. And what he was doing is when he, the phrase up until this point in history was actually the opposite. The phrase that they would use in Latin was that they would say the king is law. And so whatever the king said to your point is law. But when he wrote this book which gave birth to our modern political movement, he actually, this Presbyterian minister wrote a book. He said, no, no, no, there is a law above, above the king to which all men are beholden. And it's really you. That's what you get from Scripture. But, but you're right. And if you look at any system of a monarch, then the, the truth is actually determined. The laws, whatever the king says, that's what goes. Because in the absence of God, it actually ran for congress on this actual slogan. In the absence of God, man becomes the determiner of all things. But it's not just any man that gets to determine it. It's the one that's got, got the biggest stick. So the guy that's got the most power, he gets to determine what truth is. And if you look at history, it's littered with just violence and death. Millions and millions, hundreds of millions of people have been murdered under brutal regimes. When they, when, when they believe that power ultimately comes from a king, when truth comes from great truth is that is the front line of the argument, right? It's the front line of the battle.

[Al]

The most amazing thing about the context of what we're talking about here is these people that are striking Jesus and you know, questioning him. The whole thing was a farce anyway. Their king was impotent as a king. I mean, their king was just in name only. Rome was ruling the whole country.

[Jason]

Well, that's why I went to Pilate. But he, I mean, just to finish this text I was reading, when he said, when Jesus said in verse, what is that 37 of 18, what is true you're a king? Then asked Pilate and he said, you're right in saying I'm a king. In fact, for this reason I was born and for this I came into the world to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.

[Al]

And that doesn't mean a truth.

[Jason]

But even you see that in our so called democracy, it's the same thing. Whichever political party is in charge, dictates what the truth is. This is because we're in charge. And so we set up laws, and it goes in that vein. But then when he says, what is truth? I think this, the background of what we just discussed makes you realize why he asked that question. Because he thought, who are you? I'm the one that can kill you. Which he says.

[Al]

He says that later.

[Jason]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

So one of the reasons why our society works is because we have freedoms that are guaranteed by the First Amendment. So everyday Americans should be able to speak their mind openly and freely. And if you disagree, if you want to talk about family, traditional values, you should be able to do that without retribution. And that is a core principle that Pure Talk proudly supports. And that's why they sponsor our show, which allows us to stand strong behind the microphone and share the truth with you guys. And so we really want to support companies that allow us to do that. So if you want to support brands that really do get behind podcast like ours, I encourage you to switch your wireless provider to Pure Talk. Look, you're going to get great 5G coverage and an extremely reliable and secure network. And the plans start at just 25 bucks a month, so you're going to save a ton of money as well. And Pure Talk also believes in creating jobs right here in America, which we all believe in, and supporting small businesses. And by the way, if you are a small business owner, you can save even more money while enjoying their white glove service. It's, like, ridiculously easy to switch as well. You can switch your cell phone provider in under 10 minutes. We need to stand with companies like Pure Talk because they really do support values that we hold de, like supporting our veteran community. These guys are fully committed to the veteran community. They have a heart for veterans. In fact, the CEO is a veteran himself. If you want to be a part of that, go to puretalk.comunashamed to switch to my wireless company, PureTalk, right now. You can save an additional 50% off your first month. Again, that's puretalk.comunashamed to make the switch today. Well, I love that. I love that question, though. And it's actually answered in John 17. The answer to that question, what is truth? Jesus answers it before Pilate actually says this. And I think it has everything to do with, like, because you think about, man, you got this guy that killed Charlie Kirk, murdered Charlie Kirk. And what was the reason why he murdered him? Because Charlie Kurt was speaking truth about a particular issue on gender that offended this guy. And so he killed him for that. I think one of the reasons why he may have. Have actually engaged in this horrible act was because he believed these people, these Mormons, to be the Antichrist. Again, you're disassociating with reality itself. You're disassociating with truth itself. And I don't know what all this guy had going on in his life, but I know this, that he, on some level, had to. He had to disassociate himself from truth. I think it's one of the things that all of these horrible events have in common. If you look at the people that are the perpetrators of these crimes is again, they all have a disassociation with the truth. And what Christ is offering us is to bring us back into truth. He's revealing it to us. He's revealing reality to us, to sanctify us, to bring us into the abundant life, into oneness with him as he's experienced in his inner life with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. So this idea of truth, this is what Jesus Sundays in John 17:15. He said, I do not ask that you take them out of the world. And we think about that man, Sometimes I would like to be out of this world when you see how much evil is going on. But Jesus said, I didn't ask you to take them out of the world, but that you keep them from evil, from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. And then here's the thing. Sanctify them in the truth. Your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. And for their sake, I consecrate myself that they may also be sanctified in the truth. So the reason why God gives us the truth is to keep us from the evil one. Like truth is liberating truth. Like what is truth? Truth is the revelation when Pilate asked, what is truth? It's right here. Truth is the revelation from the Holy Spirit that will keep you from the evil one. What does that mean? Truth will keep you from death, and truth will, will, will move you into life in the abundant life that he talked about just a few chapters earlier in John 15 when he says that, that we live and abide in the Spirit.

[Jason]

It.

[Zach]

And I don't think you can separate this stuff. And we're coming to the end of this worldview where people are following their own version of truth. And we're seeing now the end of it. And the end of it is absolute evil. And Death every single time.

[Al]

Yeah, at every level. I mean, whether it's abortion, before you even get here, to people, you know, worshiping in a church building, to whatever.

[Zach]

And it's bipartisan. I mean, that's the thing that I think we have to realize that the.

[Al]

Enemy really here is it's not a political fix, Zach. I mean, we said that all along. Which is why I'm so glad you didn't win when you were running for Congress, because I feel like your influence has been way bigger doing what we're doing here over that, because it's just. It's not going to be a political fix. And that's the problem. We can't really agree on any of that. And Jay's is right. It just cycles every four years. Years. That's not. But it wasn't a fix here either. I mean, it was the same political back and forth and the whole idea of Rome here, they were just trying to appease the Jewish leadership to keep them at bay. It was all just about control. And so that was the whole thing. The reason Pilate thought he was in charge and he was, in the sense of. From Rome's perspective, but he really wasn't. Because what he didn't realize is he was about to unleash a movement that 2,000 years later would be stronger than ever.

[Zach]

And it was actually working inside the sovereign will of God. Which is so interesting though, when you think about Pilate, because this is like pre. Like we have terms, like, we use them called postmodernism or moral relativism. Like we have these, like, these phrases that we use to describe our current cultural moment where truth is subjective. At least we're told that. But it's not new. We act like this is a new philosophy. It's actually not a new philosophy. I mean, this was the philosophy of Pilate and this interaction with Jesus. What is truth? Who determines truth? Is there even such a thing as truth? It's the same argument that we're having today, 2,000 years later, what is truth? And we're still having this argument. Jesus obviously is the truth. Which is interesting about that book I mentioned that says that the law is king. And it was a Christian response to the idea that the king is law, but in reality, actually the king is law. You just got to make sure you know which king you're talking about.

[Al]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason]

I wanted just to back up. So when he said in John 17:12, to your point, which was awesome, when he says, sanctify them by the truth, your word is truth. And in the vein of protect them from the evil one. Al. And you brought up the death, which I looked up that word where it says sanctify. It has the Greek word in my margin, and it says, set apart for sacred use or make holy. Because the next verse says, as you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them, I sanctify myself. He set himself apart from the world, that they too may be truly sanctified. Set apart. I mean, that's so deep and thick.

[Al]

But it's very inspiring, and it's foreshadowing, too, what he's about to do.

[Jason]

But he had said in verse 12 when he said, while I was with you. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me, which we talked about when we were in Nashville. That name is more than just a name. It's the presence of. And then it says, none has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. But look, this is something he spoke about earlier, and I wanted to go back and read John 6 and just to show you, because you tend to not realize how this is all connected unless you go back and look. But when he gave the little sermon about, I'm the bread of life, look, in verse 26 of John 6, Jesus answered, I tell you the truth. In verse 32, Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth. It's not like he's just throwing this in here, saying, sanctify them by the truth. Your word is truth. I am the truth. So look down in verse 38 of 6. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me, and this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. Well, you see this? That's a direct quote of 1712 about keeping them safe. And I think most people think from a spiritual standpoint, but he's like, no, I'm going to raise you up at the last day. Which is why all of this makes sense once you get to the resurrection. Because it's like, I'm not going to lose them. Hang in there. This is going to be tough. They're going to hate you. There's a plan. You're going to be like me in this world, and I'm not going to lose you. Because when he says, protect from the evil one, you're right. It's like. Because his mode of operation is to kill and to destroy. Think where this John 10 the thief comes to kill and destroy, but I come to kill him.

[Zach]

And how does he do that? How does he do that? He does it through lies. When he speaks, he only utters lies. That's his native tongue, is to lie. So the way that the evil one captivates us, the way that the evil one destroys us, the way that the evil one kills us is through lies. So if we are put to death through a lie, then the way that we're going to escape that is through the truth. And so the whole point that Jesus is making in these three chapters, four chapters in John, is that the Spirit is going to be the agent, the person of God, the person inside the Trinity who will reveal the truth to us. And so this is so key when we think about being sanctified by the truth. Because what does it mean to be sanctified? To be sanctified, yes, it means to be set apart. But what does that mean? To be sanctified is different than to be justified. To be sanctified is to be freed from the power and the grip that the lies have over us, that sin has over us. The way that we are released from the power of sin is that we actually see the lie for a lie. And therefore I'm not tempted by that anymore. Why am I not tempted by it? Because I know it's a lie. If you tell me, zach, do not touch a hot stove, I'm actually not tempted by that anymore. Now maybe as a, as a two year old kid, I see how red and glowy it is. Man, that looks cool. And I touch it. Now, I'm not tempted by that because I know what it is. It's been revealed to me. I've absorbed that truth and so that has no allure over me. And in the same way we're actually sanctified by the truth. But if we make truth of our own accord and it comes from within, then what happens is it terminates on itself inward, and all of a sudden it ultimately ends in a death work. And you end up like one of these guys that go in and shoot up a Mormon church or they. Or kill a political figure that you disagree with or shoot up a school or all kind of evil stuff and you become a slave to your own depravity. In that case, JSAL's been singing it's the most wonderful time of the year. Do you know why he is singing that tune?

[Jason]

I do. Because hunting season is upon us. Cooler weather, better fast food. Shall I Continue.

[Zach]

Yeah, particularly you're talking about duck season, which means if duck season is here, it's time to get a duck stamp. But now there's a better way. You guys can go to duckstamp.com you can see the new digital duck stamp that goes right onto your phone. It's simple. It works offline. It's ready when the game warden shows up. Here's what a lot of folks don't realize, that buying this stamp, it's one of the most effective ways that you can support real conservation efforts in America. Wetlands, ducks, migratory routes, it all gets protected for our kids and our grandkids to enjoy the future. So, yeah, it's just a stamp, but it stands for something way bigger.

[Al]

You know, dad always instilled in us that. That, you know, God gave us this creation to rule over it. And so that means we have to take care of.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So that we can pass it down to the next generation of would be duck hunters. So here's what you can do. Go to duckstamp.comunashamed today to be part of something that matters. That's duckstamp.com unashamed.

[Al]

Well, when you think about it way before that, that sort of final act of some of these people, as Jesus mentions when he first started this conversation with the Beatitudes and you know, the story behind the law, some you crossed over long ago in your own heart and soul to be able then to one day go in and think it's a good idea to blow up a bunch of people at a church. You see what I'm saying? I mean, way back down the line, which is interesting that the whole concept we're getting into as you, Jason, you described the narrative of what Jesus is about to do. Death is a part of what we talk about as well, but it's death to ourselves. It's that burying of the old person and this newness comes to life with the Holy Spirit of God living in you. You wouldn't even think about somehow harming someone else. You don't even want to. You're trying to lead them to someplace better. You know, it's just. It's a completely different mindset.

[Jason]

That's what's so awesome about this narrative, which. Because when you go back to where this all started, started in a garden. And you assume that since the presence of God is there, well, his entourage is there in the celestial being world. And one of them has obviously rebelled against what he was supposed to image in God creating him. And what was the result of it? Death Even after the garden, you have the first murder. I mean, it doesn't. Next chapter.

[Al]

Yeah, Next verse.

[Jason]

Yeah. Cain kills Abel. And so what's interesting about this, and really what I'm excited about is because when you get to John 18, the first verse, and all of a sudden you see this, the back end of verse one says on the other side there was a garden, or some translation says, say olive grove. But if you look up the Greek, it's garden. And he and his disciples went into it. Well, this is going to keep coming up the rest of the way. Even when he dies and is buried. Well, where is he at? He's in another garden. And then here's Mary, post resurrection, thinks he's the gardener. And people just read over that. They're like, the scholars get so hung up on why she didn't recognize it. And that's what. If you go look at all the theologians and scholars, they're all hung up on that question. Why is she thinking he's the gardener? And when you. What? There's a rabbit hole that I'm not going to go down to. But I encourage people to do it because it goes all the way back to the first garden and the first creation. That there's an idea of royalty that is linked to people who have a garden. Because think about like even when the promised land, it's a land flowing with milk and honey, and you're in charge of being able to sustain life. And that's what gardens do. I mean, even al when we were kids and poor and didn't have anything, we had no money. I remember when we all went out there and planted that garden with our grandparents. I mean, they used to say, this is guaranteeing our survival. Which seemed crazy to me. I'm like, you're just saying this so I can go out here and work all day.

[Al]

But we were thinking more of the child labor laws.

[Jason]

If you really think about that, it was true. We can sustain life through this garden. And that garden was viewed as sacred with our grandparents. And you worked it. And this is because they were from.

[Al]

An era where that provided food year round. Remember? Because we canned everything and put everything up and all the whole process.

[Jason]

But I looked at numerous occasions where this idea of being a king and having your own private garden, and then they buried kings in gardens. Even its reference in David in his life, you know that little subtle thing in Acts 2 where in Peter's first sermon he's talking about where his tomb. And then he links it to David being buried. But he died he's still there, but it's this same idea of this garden and that having a kingly role. I mean, I'll look up all the verses because I went through it all. But it just really gives you a picture of what Jesus is introducing here. After this prayer, he kind of sums up, here's why I'm here. He goes back to creation. I want to have that love that we had before the creation of the world and I want to pass that on to them. And then all of a sudden he's crossing this Kidron valley, which has a lot of meaning in Old Testament of like this is where they had all these idols and all these enemies of God. And it was like a burial ground. And you really see the picture that John is portraying here, that Jesus is establishing a new creation and he's going to rid the world, the world of all his enemies, death, idolatry, lies. And you see that picture develop and by the time you get to the eighth day of what's fixing to happen in the next week, you literally have a new creation.

[Al]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason]

That's something that we, I think should go do some rabbit holes because I'm kind of laying this narrative out. But I'm telling you, if you go look at this, you're going to see gardens and you're going to see kings.

[Al]

Well, I just thought about one that you may or may not have looked at that just popped into my mind back when they were, the Israelites were in Babylonian captivity, which is when Daniel had his vision and wrote about this son of man pointing to this day. You know, that became a time where Israel was almost completely lost. There was just a very small remnant of people left that were holding the dream. And of course Daniel was one of them. But you know what Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonian empire was known for gardens. I mean, the hanging gardens of Babylon.

[Jason]

It's all over the place. Exactly how I went this, right. Which it was about a six hour rabbit hole. I was shocked because I really realized that why Jesus keeps going back to the beginning or John, you know, portraying Jesus in the beginning was the Word. The word was with God. Then it's like the Word became flesh because it's mirroring basically the betrayal that happened in the, in the first garden. And the lies you're seeing that play out here, he's in a garden, here comes the betrayer. It's just everything's flipped. You know, when God in the first garden came, he's looking for the humans who have now betrayed him. But he's looking for them in this setting. Here comes this mob with little lanterns, and they're looking for the Son of God. But they don't realize he is the Son of God.

[Al]

Right, right.

[Jason]

And he does the exact opposite. He doesn't hide. They're like. He's like, who are you looking for? And he's like, I am he. And then just even him saying that the mob draws, you know, they fall back. There's a lot of debate on what that means. But you're seeing a picture of exactly what happened in the first garden. Happened in this garden. But the roles are reversed, and Jesus is conquering where it all went wrong and the betrayal in the first garden to here. Go ahead, Zach.

[Zach]

And the centerpiece of it is that Jesus is establishing himself as the king. The truth, the way, the life. He is. I mean, he's all of it. He's the whole centerpiece of the entire thing. He's what the scriptures pointed to. He's everything. It's all in him. And I think what is such a good message for our current cultural moment? Because we can get into a lot of different. Different solutions for Western civilization or the world as a whole. But the truth is that if you get off of the truth is God's truth, that he reveals to us who we are and we are made in his image. I mean, that is the basis for our entire society. You get off of that, and then all this other wickedness ensues. But I think there is such a hope here that Christ wants to liberate us, and he doesn't want us to live in that type of wickedness. And what he wants us to liberate us to is a fruitful garden to where we can actually. And that's the picture in Revelation 22 at the end, it's what you see a picture, you see a tree, you see fruit, you see leaves that are a healing bomb for the nations. And it's such a powerful word for our current cultural moment.

[Al]

So, Zach, this has been the year of getting healthier for you and I. We decided we need to lose a little weight. I hit my 60th year. How old are you, Zach?

[Zach]

47.

[Al]

So how much weight have you lost?

[Zach]

I've lost. I've lost about 30. 30 something pounds.

[Jason]

So we're.

[Zach]

Yeah, I hit my goal. My goal was 205. I hit my goal, and I'm just maintaining.

[Al]

So there. Here's a picture of me when I started. And so I've been on for 37 weeks now, I think, and I, I'm right at 70 pounds is what I've lost. And our good friend Dr. Ashley Lucas, who's the founder of PhD, she's a registered dietitian with a PhD in sports nutrition and chronic disease. And they really do a nice job explaining to you when you do the consultation with these guys about how to burn fat, how to lose weight, what to eat, when to eat, and also your relationship with food, which is very important. There's no gimmicks, there's no pills, there's no side effects, which is what I love about it. It. And you're not eating rabbit food. And I haven't been hungry as well. It's a high protein diet. They even provide up to 80% of your weekly food at no extra cost. If you own a lot of meds like I was on the blood pressure meds, cholesterol, almost all those have been cut out. I no longer have a CPAP machine, which has been a huge blessing for my life as well. So if you're ready to get healthy, lose some of that weight, join Zach and I on this weight loss journey. Schedule your one on one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900 or you can visit myphdweightloss.com that's 864-644-1900. Tell them Al and Zach sent you.

[Jason]

Yeah, I, I just wanted to introduce this narrative because I think that is the narrative that John is showing. When you go back to the first two people being created in the image of God, which to your point, he created them male and female, which. What does that mean? They're mirroring him. Well, what did he do? He created a garden. They have everything they need as far as a food source. You have these rivers that is flowing. So they got all the water and he put them in charge.

[Al]

Rule over.

[Jason]

There's the kingship idea. And it's a garden and God is present there. And so now you see through truth, his truth, embodied truth as Jesus as a human making everything that went wrong after that, right? And to do that, you've got to address all these enemies of God, whether it's death, the evil one, which is why you're seeing that language in this prayer. Protect them from the evil one. Why is he praying that? Because that's where it all went wrong. And he's going to not only disarm them, but ultimately destroy them and even death itself by making it right in a garden setting where instead of the result of Adam and Eve when they betrayed God, and death ensued. His death is now going to bring life. Yeah, it's the same concept. And he's going to be hung on a tree, where they ate of a tree that brought death. Him dying on a tree is going to bring life. You're going to see that constantly. And I think that's the more moving part. But it's hard to wrap your head around unless you kind of realize that is the narrative John is portraying. And then as you read, you're like, oh, I mean, I'm going to give you all the verses. But they're subtle verses even. Like, you remember Ezekiel. I remember this one off the top of my head. 36 and 37, where he's talking about, one day there's going to be, I'm going to give you a new heart and, you know, a new flesh, and then the valley of the dry bones and all that. But there's an interesting verse in Ezekiel 36. I'll get the verse here in a second, the exact verse. But he basically goes back to. It'll be like a Garden of Eden. Now, why is he bringing up the Garden of Eden way over in Ezekiel, as he's pointing to Jesus coming to restore Israel and the error of their ways?

[Al]

Right.

[Jason]

And I think you see that in all the little details of the narrative moving forward.

[Al]

So let me read this last section here in the last few minutes we have on the podcast. So he's prayed. First he talks about himself and almost this last idea that I am the Father, the Father is in me. Then he prays for the 11 because he mentions Judas is the 12 that obviously has betrayed him. And then he expands this last section. I want to get it in verse 20. My prayer is not for them alone, talking about the 11, and then those that will come after. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message. So now he's talking about us. He's talking about anybody post Acts one as it goes forward, that all of them may be one Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. So he's the same unifying message, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. So that's the purpose going forward. It's about showing people who Jesus is. As you're sanctified and bearing his fruit, I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one. So that's twice he's brought up this idea of unity. I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity. There's third time to let the world know that you sent me. And here's the key, because we've been talking about this the whole time and have loved them even as you have loved me. There's James. Back to that idea of love. That's the unifying factor. Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you love me before the creation of the world. So this hearkens back to John 1 righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you. And they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and I myself be in them. Which is back to the Holy Spirit.

[Jason]

So that's.

[Al]

I mean, what a. Just the. I was so encouraged studying this. Just think about that. The Lord and Savior and creator of the cosmos is praying specifically for me, because that's what he did.

[Jason]

All right, let me just the technical. Because I threw this out there. I want to read Ezekiel 36, 25, just to give you the context. He says, I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols, which is going to be referred to in that valley of the Kidron that he's going to cross. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you. I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit in you, which we just talked about.

[Al]

He said it right.

[Jason]

Well, I'm going to skip down to verse 35. They will say, this redemption story is given, and he mentions fruit. Let me read 30 before I read 35. I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field. Oh. So that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nation because of famine. Now we start talking about a garden setting. And then in 35 they will say, this land that was laid waste has become like the Garden of Eden. This is Ezekiel 35, which is leading up to 37 after he gives a shepherd sheep illustration, verse 37 of 36. And then 37, he gets into the valley of dry bones. Can these bones live? Well, doesn't this sound familiar? I mean, I just thought that was fascinating.

[Al]

Yeah, it is.

[Jason]

And my other reference was about David. If you read. I think it's Nehemiah, of all things. Nehemiah 3, 16 which says behind him, Nehemiah son of so and so, a ruler around the area of so and so, took possession as far as the garden of the tomb of David. Well, I didn't, I didn't know David was buried in a garden. And that's why when I made that reference in Acts 2, because Jesus, who's the Messiah, came in the line of David.

[Zach]

Correct.

[Jason]

And of all things, was buried in a garden with a sign on the cross in three different languages that says, which I think it was done as a way to embarrass Jesus, the King of the Jews. But just think how history would prove that to be true. Because once he was raised, guess what? I think he might have been the.

[Zach]

King of the Jews.

[Jason]

If you come back to the king.

[Al]

I think he might be the king of everyone.

[Jason]

And so when you read that sermon in Acts 2, and it brings up David when he says, this is 2:24, God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death. It was impossible for death to keep its hold on David said about him, I saw the Lord always before me because he is at my right hand. I will not be shaken because he will not be abandoned to the grave. That's 27. Nor will you let your Holy One see decay. Then in 29, just an obscure verse, brothers. I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried and his tomb is here to this day. And oh yeah, it was in a garden. But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him an oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ that he was not abandoned to the grave. Verse 32, God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are witnesses to the fact exalted him to the right hand of God. I just think it's so powerful when you see the Old Testament and how all this, this plan came together and you see this idea of power in a garden where God and you see.

[Zach]

It right, you see the role of the Holy Spirit in this as well. You mentioned Ezekiel 35 and 37, and right in the middle of that is Ezekiel 36, which is a prophetic word of what actually Jesus is actually talking about in this moment. And it says this in verse 26, and I will give you a new heart, heart and a new spirit. I will put in you and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit, this is a capital S within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. And then he talks about this abundant fruit production and trees that will happen because of that.

[Jason]

No, I read that earlier. That is 36. Then in 35 he gives the reference to the Garden of Eden. So maybe I might have said 35, but it was 36.

[Al]

So we're out of time. But we pick it up there. We'll get into John 18 Jason into this garden setting that you're talking about. So see you next time. Unashamed thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.