← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1191 | Jase Navigates Headless Mascot Mayhem & Calls for Childlike Wonder in Jesus
00:57:21
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- [00:01]
Scott Hanson
I'm Scott Hanson, host of NFL Red Zone. Lowe's knows Sundays are for football. That's why we're here to help you get your next DIY project done. Even when the clock isn't on your side. Whether that's a new Filtreat filter or Bosch and Cobalt power tools, Lowe's has everything you need to feel like the MVP of diy. So get it done and earn your Sunday Shop now in store and online, Lowe's official partner of the NFL.
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Jason
I am unashamed.
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Zach
What about you?
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Jace
Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast, Zach. We were talking about in between because we just finished a podcast, and there's a documentary that's coming out this Thursday, October 23rd. It's called Off School Property. And these guys at Lifewise Academy, I ran into them a couple man, maybe three or four years ago for the first time. I was speaking up in Ohio, and. And I was amazed at what these guys are doing to teach the Bible during school hours. And I didn't know it was possible. I guess, like, a lot of great things that are going on in our culture, you don't always know about them, but it was really pretty fascinating.
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Zach
Yeah, I didn't know this either, but apparently when they kicked the Bible out of schools, which we saw how that turned out for American culture, there was, like, a loophole in the decision where you could still teach the Bible in schools if the parents got involved. It was like a weird kind of loophole. So these guys have been like, they. I guess they found this out and have been, like, trading on this. And so they're doing a. A movie that comes out this Thursday, October 23rd. And, yeah, it's going to talk about how we can get involved, get the Bible back in schools. Obviously, we believe in that. So you. If you want to be a part of that, go to lifewise.com unashamed. You get your tickets.
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Jason
I actually remember these guys because we had them on the podcast.
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Zach
We did.
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Jason
Yeah.
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Jace
Yeah.
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Jason
Well, that. That should have probably been the lead.
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Jace
That's why we have you.
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Zach
Yeah, I buried the lead. Jason.
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Jason
We've done so many podcasts, we can't even remember who we've had on.
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Zach
But to be fair, when it comes to the Bible, you know, we're all about that. This is a Bible study. So you guys check it out this Thursday in theaters and get tickets@lifewise.com Unashamed also, update. I just got a text from our buddy, Chad Robichaux, and he told me, I'm reading. I'm gonna read y' all this text. He said he wanted to. He said, can I? Come on, can I, Can I? What did he say here? I want to. I'd love to come into the podcast. Break in with a live announcement. I don't think that's possible, Chad, but I will at least give you. I'll give the announcement because it is pretty cool. So he has been asked to speak with J.D. vance, Vice President J.D. vance and Secretary headset to the Marine Corps. They're going to be demons. Do a combat demonstration showcasing 250 years of greatness and Chad's going to get to speak to 20,000 Marines. That's pretty cool. So congrats, Chad. I know that God's put you in that position, so I wish we could be there to witness that. That's going to be incredible.
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Jace
Well, it's, that's funny that he's doing that, Zach, because I was just in. After I left you guys in Black Mountain, I went to Jacksonville, North Carolina. And not really being a aficionado of North Carolina geography, I didn't realize that was the military town that's associated with Camp Lejeune. Speaking of the Marine Corps right there in North Carolina. And so the event that we spoke at, which was for a pregnancy center, but most of the people there were all vets and some of them were currently serving as well. And man, you talk about a wired audience. The table I was sitting at up front was the there were four 30 year Marine Corps vets that had spent their lives, you know, training other Marines. And one of them was a lady who was a former drill instructor. And she was this kindest, most soft spoken woman. I can't imagine her being right in somebody's face, you know, doing what d eyes do. But just the stories I heard were fascinating. But it's just another reminder we talk a lot about on the podcast how much we love the military and Robo show, of course, at the top of that list along with the Triple J and a lot of other people that.
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Zach
Oh, Blake. Oh, Blake. Who's Blake? Cooking with Jace. I hope Jason lead him astray in the Bible study.
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Jace
Yeah. Jace, are you going to include Zach in your study so y' all can argue for Blake?
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Jason
I'm gonna have to give Blake credit. I. He has, he has just been filled with a passion and we have studied so in depthly over the last few weeks. But it's so exciting to me how that thrill of just studying the greatest book ever because it leads to the greatest being that can be Known. I mean, it is. It leads you back to a person. Which I'm not shocked that we're talking about how to help kids in school and these military guys. You know, I had the most interesting conversation with this three year old that I call Little man, because he's just enamored with, number one, Santa Claus. And I have a bad history with Santa Claus because the most mad my wife ever got at me was when I don't know how old Cole was, but he just come in there one day and was like, is Santa Claus real? I think he was 5 or 6. And I just looked at him and thought, no. And she got so angry. But you know how we were raised. And I think I've shared that story before, but I just thought, it's so difficult to tell little kids, oh, this is not real. But Missy wanted to keep the excitement. And so Little man, the one I currently have, he's just enamored. He's like, what happened to Santa Claus? So it's the conversation throughout the year. And I'm excited because Christmas is right around the corner now compared to where it was when this conversation started. But then we had the Mia Moo a couple weekends ago. We have a mascot that. I don't know where we got that, but a kid will put that mascot on. And it's like a life size mascot of my daughter Mia. Well, we had a little man out there and he's like, what is this? I mean, what is this? And so I'm trying to explain to him, it's a mascot. It's not real. There's a person inside the mascot. Well, everything was fine until we got home after it was over and someone had disassembled the mascot, put it in a bag, and he saw it because it was slightly open. Well, he just, he just breaks down. He's like, I mean, Mia has lost her head. He's like, j Rod, we gotta take, we gotta take Mia to the hospital. And I'm looking around like, what are you talking about? She's fine, she's fine. He's like, no, come see. So he goes out there and I'm looking, here's this disassembled mascot which has traumatized this three year old. I bring this up to say, do y' all have any idea how to explain that to a three and a half year old? How do you explain that?
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Jace
That is not a person. That is just a. Yeah, just because.
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Jason
I get the Christmas, let's not take the thrill of Christmas. So we try to lie, which is Why? I told my son, I'm not lying to my son. But now I'm in the same predicament.
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Zach
Yeah, I don't lie about Christmas either. I mean, I did the Jill got mad at me, but I'm like, I don't like the. Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of the. The lion, so they asked me about five. I'm like, no, he's not real.
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Jason
Well, I did look, I went, jesus, son of God. When he, when my son, after he. I said, no, he's not real. And he's like, well, who is it? And I looked at him and I said, I am Santa Claus. I want you. I did. I said, I want you to be a boy. Because Santa Claus comes through the guy, you're looking at your dad. If you hadn't been so good this year, guess what? Very few presents basic survival. So I actually looked up AI about and I typed in. I was like, how do you tell a three and a half year old kid that a mascot is not real? You know what the first thing it replied, it said, well, you need to do what people similarly do when they describe Santa Claus. I thought, boy, you talking about a bunch of junk. So the point I'm bringing that up is, is because this got weird when he said, oh, is it like Jesus? And I was like, what do you mean? Because he had equated. Because we talk about Jesus all the time. Well, where is Jesus? I was like, no, he's real.
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Jace
Just.
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Jason
And I had a 20 minute discussion with even though we don't see him, Jesus is real. He's not a mascot and we have his spirit in us. Of course he's just looking dumbfounded. But I'm like, but a mascot is only real if a live person gets in the costume. It's a costume. But he just couldn't get it. But I tried to segue into the spirit of Jesus is in us. There's a real person. But I thought, man, this is very difficult to explain. But that was a long way to say we need to be having these conversations with our kids.
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Jace
Well, that's. It's funny, Jace, because we were in school studying the Bible. There was a student there who believed that when Jesus left here Acts 1, that as soon as he got out of sight that he took his body off just like that mascot bag full of costume because he didn't need a body anymore where he was headed. And he, he believed that. I mean he came in, he didn't believe that when he left once he studied something called the Bible. That's not true.
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Jason
But I thought that there's a lot of people that believe that resurrection and going to heaven, these kind of phrases are just bodiless.
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Jace
Yeah.
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Jason
Existences.
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Jace
Right.
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Zach
Well, Jay, some things that we buy are just expenses, but there's other things we buy that are true investments, like you pouring into the duck boys. How's that going, by the way?
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Jason
It's a process. You know, when you take yuppie individuals and try to get them to develop a process and appreciation for the outdoors, it's a bumpy process.
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Zach
Well, I know our family believes in passing down this legacy of hunting, enjoying the outdoors to the next generation. And that's where Duck Stamp.com comes into play. The Duck Stamp is only 25 bucks, which is less than a box of shells. And it's the best investment that you'll make all season when it comes to funding conservation. And it's helping to ensure that our kids and our grandkids are going to have the same opportunity that we've had in the outdoors. We spend more than that on a tank of gas several times a week. And the federal Duck Stamp does a whole lot more lasting good.
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Jason
Phil instilled in us at an early age to not only respect the outdoors, but do everything in your power to leave it better than when we found.
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Zach
It out of everything in your gear bag this season, the duck stamp is probably the cheapest item, but it makes the biggest impact. So whether you're a hunter or whether you're not a hunter, you can still be part of giving back to the next generation of outdoorsmen. Head on over to duckstamp.comunashamed. that's duckstamp.comunashamEd. and get yours today. I actually, when I preached a. A wedding recently, I may have said this on the podcast. I can't remember all things kind of bar together, but I. I had in my notes, which al. It's the same sermon you. I mean, we kind of have the same structure we've used for years in weddings. And. And in there it says something like. And help each other get to heaven.
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Jace
Well, to work alongside you to help get our family to heaven. That's. That's the line. Yeah.
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Zach
And I end up thinking, you know what? I might need to change this. You know, I mean, it was kind of funny. Like, it's kind of sat in me. I said, I think I'm going to change the language of that. You know, I mean, just because we. We really are. What we're saying is we're not getting to heaven. Heaven's coming to us. And the kingdom of heaven is actually here in part now. And, you know, eternal life is now to know the one true God. I mean, it's all kind of. It's all kind of there, you know.
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Jace
Well, it is. And. But, you know, we don't have to throw out the whole concept. There is. I mean, Jesus did. He did leave here. I mean, so the idea of saying he's at the right hand of the Father is still a solid concept. But you're right. I think you view it a little bit differently when you understand what his true purpose really was. And it is different than the old songs we sang.
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Zach
Well, it's not. It's not that it's technically wrong. I think you can make a case for it. I think what it. The thing is the imagination that it sets for us. We typically. Because, I mean, I think we're having a hard time. I have a hard time thinking about it, like, coming in here and now I'm always thinking about a place I'm going to. And so I think it is helpful to reimagine and kind of come up with different language to shape the imagination for what actually we're talking about. There is an immediacy and an urgency to the kingdom that it's now, you know, we're not sitting here, like, waiting it out. You know what I mean?
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Jason
Yeah, no, I. I agree.
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Jace
Well, it was funny that we were talking about Santa Claus, Zach, because your. Your son called. I was with your dad and. And was. Is the. Would Ann be your stepmom now? What's the official night?
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Zach
I guess so.
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Jace
Yes. I guess so. Your stepmom. Yeah. So I was. We were with them. We went up and drove up on the highest point there in Black Mo, you and your son. Bear calls Papa and he has Ruth with him. And I think. I guess he was messing with. I don't know what he was doing, but he. He caught. He said he was calling Santa Claus, but he was actually calling Gordon and to. To see if he was going to bring her some presents. So that was the. That's why she wanted to talk to Santa. And so, you know, Gordon goes into this whole thing. You're going to get lots of presents. You're my favorite grandkid, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then I hear her say at the end, she said, was Papa. But they were having this whole discussion about it, and I thought, I don't know if Bear is just trying to throw off the set or what he was doing or just Taking up time. But it was interesting because she was so excited. And then she said, but I think that was Papa. So she's pretty smart. No, I don't know. You know, people. Some people take that little discussion we just had very seriously. I mean, they think it's wrong to even celebrate Christmas. And, you know, there's a. There's. There's kind of some lines, you know, that are formed there on that. Or Easter. My grandkids, their favorite thing is that the idea of the Tooth Fairy, I don't know if they believe is real or not, but they love getting money for their teeth, and they'll do everything they can to lose teeth or, you know, pull them out so they can get paid.
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Zach
It's so funny, because it's a house of cards. You got to be careful with it. I mean, I remember when it came to crumbling down around me was when I was about 5, and it was the Easter Bunny. And so, you know, we kind of grew up, y' all kind of know, we were kind of in and out of. We were pretty poor most of my early childhood, and we. I remember one particular Easter. We didn't have any money, and so we weren't gonna have Easter baskets that year. And so my parents. That's how they told me that we're so poor that we're not going to be able to have Easter baskets. And what that means is, there's no Easter Bunny. And so I was like, are you kidding me? I didn't believe them. I was like, you're lying. This is not true. Like, you're just saying this. And I said, I have to talk to my pawpaw. He'll tell me the truth. And so they got my grandfather on the phone, and I said, is it true that there is no Easter Bunny? And he confirmed that the Easter Bunny was a lie. And then I. And then I realized what I said. Well, what about the Tooth Fairy? He said, yep, you're on the right track. Not true. There's no Tooth Fairy. And then I was. And then the big one.
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Jason
Oh, boy. Wait a second.
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Zach
If there's no Easter Bunny and there's no Tooth Fairy, what about Santa Claus? And he was like, yep, no Santa Claus, either. And the whole house of cards came crumbling down. I didn't go as far as say, what about God? So that was good. Yeah. Because I could have gone there next, but I didn'.
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Jace
Yeah, that's a bit much to hit it all at one time. I mean, you'd rather than kind of figure it out. I don't know. I've always been just more in the middle on it. I. I do think there's a wonder about holidays and stuff that's fun for kids, but I mean, you know, so I think they all figured out at some point. So I don't know.
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Jason
I see. I see why I had so much trouble with it because y' all don't really know either what's still.
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Zach
Well, I mean, I'm just saying what I did, but Jill says I'm like Ebenezer Scrooge. And I'm like, no, I'm just trying to set a proper expectation. She said it's just holidays. So, like, I know it's a lot of controversy and Jill disagrees with me on this. I have always told the truth when it comes to these things because I remember how it felt when that house of cards came tumbling down around me. So what I tell my. I've always kind of drifted in with my kids from the time they were young. Yeah.
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Jace
Well, I just hope they don't ask because I don't like lying. I'm a very honest person and so I don't like it. But I do like the idea that they love Christmas and when they're little they love the concept of Santa Claus. So I just. I don't know. I just hope they don't ask. But mine are all old enough now.
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Jason
I think they figure out it's very difficult to explain.
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Jace
Yeah. And I never thought about the mascot thing. That's very interesting. But he's just. He's just not far and he. His mind can't quite handle that yet.
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Jason
No, but alright. I mean, Missy's like, I'm gonna have to seek out some kind of psychiatric help to how to answer these questions every day. That. That's the discussion. Mascot Mia. And he says Santa Claus. Is he still. He doesn't say Pole. He says, ho. Is he at the North Hole? No, it's North Pole. Pole. Let's get that right. That's what he said. When are you coming from the North Hole? I was like, pole. Pole is more.
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Zach
I think there's an argument to be made for like these stories do help foster like imagination kind of the enchanted world. We've lost a lot of that. So I do think there's a really good argument for bringing back like enchantment. I think that we, we need that if we're going to pursue the kingdom to understand and have. We're so like, scientific in everything that we do. It's like you got to be in a test Tube. But that's not really the place that most of us live. We don't live in a test tube or a mathematical equation. We actually live in a spiritual state as well. And so I do think that's why.
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Jace
I think you're right. The classics, like C.S. lewis's stuff and. Or even Dickens, even some of his stuff, like the Christmas is a Christmas Carol or. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, those are great ways to be able to tell, you know, stories about spiritual things. And you're right. There's an enchantment about it. That's. That's something. That's. That's good.
- [20:20]
Jason
I think you're onto something there. I mean, because even, like, you think about. I thought about why y' all were talking that Second Corinthians 5:1 where it says, we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven not built by human hands. Well, there's some mystery to that. You know that form of the Greek word, because I looked it up, Skinios. This is the only time that's used for tent there. So he's referencing the body. But when you look at the other.
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Zach
Places, where were you at again?
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Jason
2 Corinthians 5:1. Because I was thinking about the mask God. And we have a tent, and if that's destroyed, we have a building from God. So I looked up that building. It's like, well, what is that? Well, that Greek word is mostly used for, like, the building up of one another, or it's like a action word. Now, it does say in Ephesians 2, it's used where it says, which is one of my favorite passages, and I'll read it, where it says, yeah, the whole building joined together rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. But, you know, I don't know exactly what the new body is going to be like, but Jesus, that first John 3:1 always trumps everything to me, because it's like, when Jesus comes back, we're going to see him as he is, and we will be like him. Yeah, and it doesn't make much sense if, you know, to go into this new heaven and new earth concept. Why did Jesus show his disciples his hands and feet? What are we getting a body back for? Why go through all that? Why levitate and say, hey, I'll come back the same way you see me leave? Which was an appearance. He appeared. And so that's kind of my take on it. I think there is some mystery. I mean, 1 Corinthians 15 is the obvious place to go because it's like the body that is sown is sown. You know, the four things it says, it's sown a dishonorable body, it's raised in glory. Sown a natural body, it's raised a spiritual body, but it's still a body.
- [22:56]
Zach
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- [23:56]
Jace
Zach, you know, one of the things that we've always felt is tantamount to supporting our country is to supporting our troops and our veterans. And that's one of the things I love about what, what Pure Talk is doing.
- [24:07]
Zach
So go to PureTalk.com Unashamed to make the switch today. Again, that's PureTalk.com Unashamed and switch to America's wireless company, Pure Talk.
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Jace
It almost seems like too that he had some bit of shape shifting ability or at least could change his appearance, you know, I mean, no doubt make himself not recognizable. Then he was recognized. So, I mean, he did a lot of pretty cool stuff. That was 40 days after the resurrection.
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Jason
Like come just a little, like come into a room, though the doors were locked.
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Jace
Yeah.
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Jason
Wait a minute. But then he showed them his hands and feet. Yeah, look at me. A ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see. I have.
- [24:53]
Jace
Yeah.
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Jason
So interesting.
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Zach
It's an interesting question though, this, this, I mean, I mean that really powerful passage out of Second Corinthians 5. It reminds me because he says here very similar language when you read that. You know what I thought about when he says, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands?
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Jason
Well, mine says human hands.
- [25:17]
Zach
Well, that's the same thing. Well, it's the same concept. But what I thought about was what Stephen said at his stoning we just talked about in the last podcast before the persecution broke out. He said, the Lord your God does not live in the temples made by man's hands. Human hands. Then Saul, who was there giving the kind of the approval.
- [25:41]
Jace
The death blessing.
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Zach
The death blessing. He said the same thing in Acts 17. The Lord your God does not dwell in temples built by human hands. Jesus said something very similar before his murder. And it's interesting that that language is still here. But then I wonder what this means. We could talk about it. When he says, the house, the building from God is eternal in the heavens. That's an interesting phrase. Right, as we talk about heaven coming. But what is that?
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Jason
Well, I think it's the heaven and earth coming together in a new, redeemed, newly created form.
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Zach
Yeah.
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Jason
I mean, that's why I'm tying it back to the temple. When Jesus said, which is the very reason they killed him, saying, he is the temple, I mean, he went me with me, saying, I am Santa Claus. He's like, I am the temple. Because he's like, you destroy this temple, and I'll raise it up in three days. Which, interesting enough, in John 1:14, when the word became flesh and made his dwelling, well, there's that tent. He pitched his tent, he tabernacled, he took on flesh, then he died, and then it came back. It, as in the body. And then I think it's that redemption rabbit hole we went on. When Romans 8 says we groan. Because in 2 Corinthians 5:2, the next phrase is, meanwhile, we groan. We'll tie that in to where he also.
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Zach
Look.
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Jason
Romans 8 is very, very clear. Romans 8:23. We ourselves, who have the first fruits of the spirit grown, inwardly groan inwardly as we eagerly, as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. And that's coming off the heels of this earth, the earth being liberated from its bondage of decay. So whatever this new body is, no decay, no dying.
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Zach
There's no entropy, no walls.
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Jason
Look, no walls. Yeah, you can go through a wall.
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Zach
Listen to what Paul says in Ephesians 1 about these heavenly places, too. He says, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. And it's very similar language about the eternal in the heavens. Right. What does all that mean? I think that someone asked me that this week about Ephesians 1. And what I think that is talking about there is you have to go back to the garden to your point, and the garden being the original temple. Before sin entered the world, the heavens and the earth were not separated in the way that they are now. They were working in tandem together. And because of sin, there's been the separation there. And in Christ, that's all coming back. So I think that when we like that picture of the Second Coming, whatever the new body is going to be, whatever the new earth is going to be, what we know is that it's not going to be. It's not going to be in contrast to the heavens in the sense that it's not going to be hostile. It will be a true unity, just like this, you know, it's going to be real integration. And that's what I think the groaning is now. It's that not yet. We're not there yet. As we feel it, we feel the tension, we feel the burden right now, we feel unclothed, we feel like we're naked, we feel like we're not quite. Something's not quite right. I think that's the groaning, that's the longing.
- [29:47]
Jace
It's. And the process, though, has started, as we said, because Jay's. If you keep reading in Romans 8:26, and this is passage has always fascinated me, he says, in the same way the Spirit helps us in our weakness. What you're describing, Zach, because it's a deposit, right? That's what it. That's what Paul called in Ephesians. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with guess what? Groans that words cannot express. And he searches our hearts. He knows the mind of the Spirit because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. And so the process has begun when we're renewed, even on earth. But it's not complete until the resurrection. I mean, I think that's the clear evidence that you see from the whole Romans 8 discussion. But you're right, even the Holy Spirit, he understands the grown. He lives in us. So he's able to even now pair that weakness of us in the not yet now to live lives that are full of hope and joy and, you know, not. Not burdened by sin and not just drugged down by sin, you know.
- [31:01]
Zach
Yeah. One of the reasons why I think he intercedes with with words that we can't express is because we have a. C.S. lewis said something like this, like, if you. If you find yourself with a longing for something more than this world can provide, perhaps you were made for another world. It's a really kind of powerful apologetic or argument for, like, you know, we all had that thing in us. We're like, man, I want this. I want something that I can't be satisfied here. But we don't really know what it is because it's transcendent. It's otherly. And so to think about, like what eternity is, what God's put eternity in the hearts of man. But we really don't have the paradigm to even express the longing that we have. We don't have the words to express it because our language limits us to the temporal, spatial world. And God is so much bigger than what he's created. So we have this thing in us. I want something. I don't know quite what it is. Well, the Spirit knows. The Spirit knows exactly what it is, what we want. And that's why he alone is the only one that can intercede for us, because he's the only one that knows the mind of Christ is the Spirit within him. That's Paul's argument in 1 Corinthians 1 and 2, that only the Spirit of God can know the thoughts and the mind of God, and he can make that known to us. But meanwhile, we are groaning and we don't even have the language to even articulate what it is. And God's like, that's okay. You don't need the language to articulate it.
- [32:33]
Jace
Which is why Jesus spent all that time in John 14, 15, 16, explained to the disciples that it was going to be better for them when he left because he was sent a spirit to live inside of it. But, you know, they. They didn't get it at the time, but they're about to get it where we are now.
- [32:48]
Jason
I'm. I'm not sure people get it today.
- [32:50]
Jace
Well, a lot of them don't. Yeah, you're exactly right.
- [32:54]
Zach
It's one of my problems, I think, with an overemphasis on thinking that doctrine alone is going to somehow make you right. And people get so hung up on the, you know, the doctrines of the faith. And I'm not. I am not diminishing doctrine at all, but when you elevate it to the place where it's like man, but you can't. You're never going to really be able to put all this in a package and be like here, get, get this right, and then you'll be okay. Now there's a longing that you have that actually, you can't even explain what it is. You, you don't even have the words to possess that. And if you're going to be preserved, you're going to have to lean on the Holy Spirit. That makes people uncomfortable because you can'. That you can't control him. And it makes us very uncomfortable to say, no, I'm actually going to lean on the spirit to do my interceding and, and, and, and, and to work through me and in me.
- [33:43]
Jace
But that's the, that's the but. You're describing the battle of humanity. I mean, it's, it's relationship over rule, you know, but, but the, you know, people want it the other way around, saying, well, you know, I need just rules. Just, just tell me how far I can go. Tell me the edge. And I want to, I want to stay in that space. And we're like, no, this is a relationship. I' lives in you. This is a relationship with the, the God of the cosmos, you know?
- [34:12]
Zach
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- [34:21]
Jace
I have. We, we've had Kim on the podcast and she has convinced me that to add to my supplement routine.
- [34:29]
Zach
Yeah, Kimchi is great. I eat kimchi, except that my wife has banned it from the kitchen along with Al, your sauerkraut as well. But kimchi, it's an amazing thing that has over 900 unique probiotic strains that help support healthy digestion and overall health. And what Kimchi One does, it actually puts all of that power of kimchi in an easy to take capsule without sticking up your house. So now I am back on the Kimchi because I'm taking Kimchi One. Because all health begins right in the gut. When you give your body the right fermented superfood, you can support your immune system, improve digestion, and even boost the appearance of your skin, your hair, your nails. Kimchi has been shown to help reduce the risk of obesity and support a slimmer waistline. And Kimchi One, it's all natural, non gmo, made right here in the US Of A, crafted by Brightcorn Nutrition, which is a company committed to health, integrity, and American values. So Al's taking it, I'm taking it, and my buddy Gary's taking it. We all love the benefits we get from Kimchi One. So you can take advantage of an exclusive offer. 25 off with code unashamed when you visit mybrightcore.com unashamed or you can call my friends at Brightcore at 888-404-9677 for up to 50 off plus free shipping. And their knowledgeable team will help you decide if Kimchi One is right for you. That's triple 840-49677 or visit mybrightcore.com unashamed.
- [35:55]
Jason
Well, it's kind of like when you take truth and try to make it your own. Missy had an interesting thing we discussed and we kind of disagreed at first because she went to a conference and they were doing a Q and A and a question was asked. It was something like this. It was like, what do you do about these people who are red letter people and they don't believe the whole Bible should be read as equally important? And, and so Missy was a little annoyed by the answer because the answer basically was, well, every word is the word of God and should be treated. You know, that was the answer. And miss like, can you believe that? And I was like, well, technically that's true. The Bible is the word of God from the first word to the end.
- [36:59]
Jace
I said, I think all scriptures God breathed, you know.
- [37:03]
Jason
Well, true. But you know, what scripture was he talking about? The Old Testament. You know what I mean? I'm just being technical about it.
- [37:12]
Jace
No, I. But even the stuff because we've talked about before, there are things in the Bible that are not true because they were, they were spoken by people who were not speaking truth and it's in the Bible. Well, right.
- [37:24]
Jason
But I told Ms. I was like, that's a more complicated thing to answer. I was like, I don't think I like the question because it was kind of making fun of people who are highlighting the red letters because at the end of the day, the Bible is true from one end to the other. As true as in this is God's word and you should read it all. But it is about a person. There is a person behind it.
- [37:51]
Zach
I think the problem is this. And I actually there's one guy that's called me out in the comments. He does it all the time. He's not being truthful when he does it. But he says that I said don't read the red letters, which I never said that. I never said that. But what I did say, and I'll clarify it again on this episode because you brought it up, the red letters are Jesus didn't write those. He didn't write that. That's what's so funny about this people. Jesus did not write the red letters. Those are written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. They're telling us what Jesus said. They're telling us what God said, but Paul's telling us what God said as well. Corinthian letters and the book of Romans and Ephesians. And so I think the problem is when people elevate the red letters and say these are, like, more authoritative than the black letters. Well, we're the ones that came up with the color scheme. The entire Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. It's all of God's word. And so all of it is the red letters are God's word. The black letter, it's all God's word. It's all his word. And you can't elevate one over the other. And when people do that, I have heard people say things like, I'm not going to interpret Paul, I'm going to interpret Paul to the prism of Jesus, not Jesus through the prism of Paul. And what they mean is there are certain issues where they want to say Paul had a cultural bias, for example. Well, no, he didn't. I mean, if he had a cultural bias, here's the thing. What he wrote is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The scripture is without error. The scripture is, is God's final and authoritative word. This is where we go for truth. This is it. This is God's revelation to us. And so that's the point that I think they probably may have been making. Jason, I would agree with that. You don't want to elevate one or the other.
- [39:38]
Jason
Well, I think I disagree with just the way that they're looking at it. And when you read something like Hebrews one when it says, in the past, God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways. But in these last days, he has spoken to us by his Son, whom He appointed heir of all things and through whom he made the universe. So you read a verse like that, he spoken to us through His Son. What does that mean? You're like, well, that's a Bible verse that you're reading. True. So my point is, at the end of the day, this is about a person who is a relational being who demonstrated his love even though the person became flesh and spoke words. His point was, I get the people who are saying, highlighting the red letter. That's why they highlighted them, because they're like, all roads are leading to a person that I Think that's their only point. I cut them some slack for.
- [40:55]
Zach
Oh, there's nothing wrong with highlight. It's nothing for saying that. Letters.
- [40:58]
Jason
Yeah. Because if you, if you, if you just look at the Bible as something to try to learn every sentence and, and get into complete unity on actually what it says in every place, well, you're never going to be able to pull that off. That's why when you. The prayer in John 17, he's like, I want them to have the perfect unity of the love that we had from the beginning. He always brings it back to something personal. So I don't know if I articulated.
- [41:33]
Zach
Yeah, I mean, my point is, though, that what Paul wrote is also scripture. And we know that. One reason why we know that is because Peter said that in 2 Peter chapter 3, when he talks about Paul's writings and he says they're super complicated, a lot of people misunderstand them. And it says, and count the patience of our Lord as salvation. Just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the words given to him, as he does in all of his letters, when he speaks in them of these matters, there are some things in them that are hard to understand. So Paul, he's complicated, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction as they do other scriptures. So Peter's saying that what Paul wrote was actually scripture. And so I think that we, that we can read, that we can have an assurance that what we have in our canon is actual scripture. It is God breathed, it is his word, it is his revelation. And whatever Matthew, Mark, Luke and John record as the words of Jesus are just as binding and not less binding or more binding than what Paul, Peter, James, the Hebrew writer, John the Revelator, when he wrote the book of Revelation, it's all, it's all God's word, it's all God breathed.
- [43:05]
Jace
And I think Jason's right too. As long as you always know this is going to point back to who Jesus is. Because you think about it, I mean, Paul wrote most of the New Testament and yet he was the biggest enemy of the church in the first century. I mean, those first few years, you talk about a life change. What changed? Well, he met Jesus, you know, I mean, that changed everything. So everything he thought he was doing for God, he was wrong.
- [43:33]
Jason
He literally. That is my point. He's like, had it all justified. Had knew the law, backwards, forwards, upwards, justified. Then all of a sudden it was like, hey, what are you doing? Why are you persecuting? Oh, yeah, why are you? Who are You Lord, you know, because, look, you get my point. A lot of these people who get off into all these doctrinal issues and miss Jesus. Yeah, they miss it. Yeah. And you're like, what's wrong with this place that doesn't seem to have any joy or there's no love.
- [44:09]
Zach
Well, I think, yeah, there's. I think the slander that comes out of people like that. The. The just backbiting, just always trying to. It's a gotcha game. Lack of grace, all that. You don't really smell. They don't smell like Jesus a lot of times. I'm not saying they're Christians. I'm just saying they don't smell like Jesus. And I think that we all had that propensity, you know, to do that. But again, that passage where Jesus says that you study the scriptures diligently and by them you think you're saved, but you must be the one they point to. All scripture is God breathed, but all scripture ultimately does. You're right, Jason. It points to the person of Jesus. And that's why when you go back and read Jesus's writings, or not his writings, Jesus words as recorded by the Gospels, he's always pointing back to these Old Testament scriptures that point to himself. Always. And then you go back with the revelation of Christ and you go back and read the Old Testament and you're like, oh, my goodness, how. I mean, this is amazing. The whole thing was pointing to him the entire time. And now the whole thing makes sense.
- [45:14]
Jace
Well, and that's why it's important to always. I remember, Jason, we were in school, one of our instructors said, be careful in your exegesis that you don't exit Jesus. And there's a lot of. There's a lot of truth. Well, I'm saying one of the examples that. That I use is. Is Job. Because most of the book of Job is. Is speeches by men who God said at the end didn't know what they were talking about. So he's like, yeah, yeah, don't believe anything those guys said. Well, that was most of the book of Job. But you have to have the contract to understand from Job's perspective of what God was doing in his life. You have to have the human perspective of his friends because they're not God. And so that's why those things are in the Bible. It shows contrast. Many, many times, you know, where you can really see who God is.
- [46:04]
Zach
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- [47:47]
Jason
Well, I think it's a good discussion based because I think on the last podcast we left off talking about kind of how people view Israel's role in modern day Christianity. And I would venture that most people think that something's going to happen in Israel one day with the end of times. And Zach probably knows more about that than I do. But, you know, that's where we left off. And I'm like reading all these predictions, especially in the book of Isaiah. I think we left off on Isaiah. What was it, 49. Yeah, I read that at the end of the podcast.
- [48:30]
Jace
Yeah, but.
- [48:31]
Jason
And I was fixed to read the ones in Psalms, you know, Psalm 22, 27. And remember that's the psalm we read before when the first verse of Psalm 22 is the quote that Jesus used when it said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
- [48:49]
Jace
Yeah.
- [48:50]
Jason
But later on in verse 27, let me read this. All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord. And all the families of the nations will bow down before him. For dominion belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations. All the rich of the earth will feast and worship. All who go down to the dust will kneel before him. Those who cannot keep themselves alive. That pretty much sums up everybody. And then it says the last verse in 31. They will proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn, for he has done it. So my point is. And look, that's Just 1 Psalm 67. 7, Psalm 98. All the ends of the earth that keeps coming up. And so you see, which you had.
- [49:48]
Jace
Brought that up from Acts 1:8, that obviously that's when this is all those Old Testament prophecies were pointing to this moment that we're at here in our text.
- [49:58]
Jason
Well, even just think of Ephesians 1, where it kind of goes through the scheme of redemption and has that verse that we reference about bringing everything under heaven and earth under one head. Well then chapter two, what does he do? He basically spends the whole chapter talking about the dismantling the wall that's dividing Jews and Gentiles. He tore that wall down. We're all one in Christ. We rise together. Think of the Galatians 3. I mean, all the problems on our planet. Now, Jesus pretty well accomplished because all the things that divide us, he put it on a cross. And when he came out of that grave, offering his spirit without limit to anyone who would surrender to him, he brings all people together. There's no Jew, there's no Gentile, there's no slave free. There's no. All those passages. First Corinthians 12 says the same thing. And that's why you get to the all nations. He's like, go into the ends of the world, the ends of the earth. Which nobody really has a good definition. That's why we, we looked it up. Why are they. Why are we sharing Jesus to that, to the ends of the world. Why are we doing that?
- [51:15]
Jace
Yeah, the last of the globe. I mean, we're, you know, and it's interesting, Jace, because all those prophetic things from Psalm 22, we didn't bring this up when we read those before. But you know, then you get to the 23rd Psalm, which is probably the most famous psalm ever. And it, and it points to the. To the great shepherd. I mean, the whole thing is embod in what we know. Who we know is the great shepherd Jesus, which he refers to himself in John 10. So, I mean, it's just these beautiful pictures are painted of the global idea.
- [51:49]
Jason
Yeah. And Even in Psalm 23, you remember when he said in John 18, shall I not drink the cup the Father has given to me? Well, think about that. Psalm 23, I thought about this because of the enemies, when he gets.
- [52:02]
Jace
What is it?
- [52:02]
Jason
Verse 5. You prepare a table before me. It's right after he says, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not be unwant. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside the quiet waters. Where's the valley of death? Verse 4. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. Well, that's how we started off this chapter. He's going through the valley of death, the Kidron Valley. And he says, I will fear no evil, for you are with me, and your rod and staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil, my cup overflows. Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life. And I will dwell. Which is the same phrase that if this tent is destroyed, I know I have a building, a dwelling from God not built by human hands. I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
- [53:04]
Zach
What's just crazy. You go back. That's what I'm saying. You go back and read the Old Testament in the light of Jesus. And you go back and read something like Isaiah 45, 55. Sorry, he says this. Behold, I made him a witness to the peoples, a leader and commander of the peoples. Behold, you shall call a nation that you do not know. Well, who's that? That's the Gentiles. And a nation that did not know you shall run to you. Why? Well, because of the Lord your God, and the Holy One of Israel. For he has glorified you. Seek the Lord while he may be found. Call upon him while he is near. I mean, you read that Isaiah 55 is another just great text of like. Oh, that's what he's talking about in Jesus. He's going to draw the nations to himself, and the nation that wasn't his nation is going to actually run to him. And it says here, there's going to be an abundant pardon. It says later on in the text that he will abundantly pardon God will have compassion on them. It's incredible to see the compassion of our Lord and that we are invited in to participate in this kingdom.
- [54:16]
Jace
Well, and I think what it shows you is the bigness and the vastness of the kingdom and that's what we always have to go back to in politics, playing a big role in this part of the text we're in. But the one thing we realize out of everything that happens to Jesus is that he's greater than politics. And you have to say that, you know, 2,000 years later, as much as it was the case 2,000 years ago in his context. I mean, Jason, talk about he. He came before kings, he came before Pilate, the governor, he came before the, the religious leaders. And all of them lacked that, you know, the idea that he was really the true king and they thought they were doing away with a movement. Instead, it was just about to kick off. I mean, that's.
- [55:01]
Jason
And who won? Well, Jesus is still alive. He got his body back. All those, all those men are under the earth. I mean, that's what the kingdom looks like. I think that's the problem people have. They're like, what does the kingdom look like? Like, it looks like a bunch of spirit filled people in every corner of the globe. They're not in a structure man made and they're saying, our king is in heaven itself right now, alive with a new body. He's not imaginary and he's not way off. It's just, it's just a veil that you can't. Yeah, he's real. And we're serving the king. And if we're killed, no big deal because we'll have a new body. This one will be exchanged for a new one. And evidently it's a lot better model because it's been 2,000 years since he got his new body and he seems to be doing well.
- [56:06]
Jace
Well, we're out of time. It all started with what's a mascot? And then that's where we wound up.
- [56:12]
Jason
So y' all can't blame me for this rabbit hole. Y' all are the ones that took that down a rabbit hole. I was just saying, how can I help? Help me help a 3 year old kid understand.
- [56:24]
Jace
I'm not, I'm not sure we did it, but it was an interesting discussion. So we'll get back to John 18. Maybe next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.